I recently spent an afternoon in these two neighborhoods, and was amazed at how little they've changed over time. They're basically the same as they were in the 80s and 90s. The felt like the real, old NYC.

The crazy part is that, relative to the rest of the city, both neighborhoods (especially UES) have become more affordable over time. There are people paying more to live in Bed Stuy than the UES. I actually found myself thinking that I could totally live and raise a family on the Upper East Side. I halfway wanna move back and buy a condo now, before the Second Avenue Line opens.

years of life I think I will always favor the UWS

What part of the UES feels like old new york? seems like it's pretty much a revolving door of storefronts in the ground floor of slowly renovated buildings with doormen, with pockets of bars with average ages that raise incrementally with the street numbers

>What part of the UES feels like old new york? seems like it's
>pretty much a revolving door of storefronts in the ground
>floor of slowly renovated buildings with doormen, with pockets
>of bars with average ages that raise incrementally with the
>street numbers

But there seem to be a lot of people raising families there. It's more transient than UWS, surely, but that's always been the case.

because anything above 96th is spanish harlem as far as i'm concerned
if you telling me there's some affordable spots below that LET A SISTER KNOW lol

i worked on the UWS for 7 years. i love it. definitely different from what it was. less domincans for sure but the community board and the neighborhood is comprised of some pretty die hard activists (including my old boss) so they've worked a little harder to preserve housing and people. they also have more unique stock up there. a lot of SROs. a lot were lost but a lot are still there and make great supportive housing

at one point (and possibly may still be), the UWS had the highest concentration of supportive housing. it was actually great to see how welcoming they were of it (in comparison). im sure some people hate/d it but you honestly wouldn't know. my old org has a lot of projects up there

Affordable is relative, but I was thinking 2br for sale under 600k or for rent around 2800.

but i definitely can't afford that. LOL

i know someone renting a 2BD in BK for a few hundred less. but theyre one block away from the train. york ave can feel mighty far in the cold/when it's late

This apt:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/531-E-83rd-St-APT-4A-New-York-NY-10028/72533558_zpid/

will double in value

telling they didn't share the SF

I'd estimate to be between 600-650 sq feet.

Someone's going to pay cash for it.

with that square footage.

It's safe to assume that a building of that size probably has no 3br units. If there are 3 units per floor, adjusted for hall/stairwell, they probably average 600-650.

http://streeteasy.com/building/531-east-83-street-manhattan/floorplans

than what i have.

kinda impressive though to put a 2 bedroom in 400 square feet, but it's not like a family aparment. it's a single person with an office apartment. the girl who lived here before me did the same thing because even with an extra 200 sq feet plus basement storage it's not a lot of space.

Crazy enough, the bedrooms aren't that small. Living room either. They made really good use of that space.

450 is crazy but it's nyc
my apartment is bigger and i have a 1 bed

I've def had smaller bedrooms. You can get a queen bed, dresser and desk even in the smaller BR.

being used as an office and that's a twin or or full size bed in there. not a queen. they've also got a couch that's smaller than mine and less area on each side.

but what they have is a twin/full in there based on the photos. there's also a closet on one side of the bed that looks like it has doors that swing open rather than slides so you have to allow space for that in this particular room.

You can do all kinds of shit to that room

but you can't fit a whole family. not easily. not without a good amount sacrifice. that's all i'm saying. affordable ues family living, cheaper than brooklyn? nahhhh not really.... sq footage wise. in some instances yeah. but for the most part those apartments with comprable no of bedrooms are cheaper because they're smaller.

just cause I was eating Peruvian food in the building across the street
http://www.bklynair.com/

STUDIOS, rent is 2700+

And the rents climb steeply after that.

apartment you posted above. same square footage approximately. no view, no pool. probably less train access.

that's why they haven't changed much. a lot of old money lives there too so they're there to stay.

is the area actually becoming more affordable or has the city gotten so expensive that the increase isn't as high as other parts? what kinda rent prices were you seeing there?

I rarely get above midtown and those areas have always felt like Idealized NYC living (at least UWS).

When I pass through there now I feel out of place because everyone feels....richer than me there.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

(outside of the where the ultra rich live). i've seen a lot of them. tiny cramped apartments with rooms you can barely turn around in, slanted floors and views of alleys. hallways look lke typical hallways from rundown bronx and brooklyn apt buildings and often don't smell much better. they are what they are and that's tenement.

you're not getting nice housing at those prices. brooklyn has some beautiful spaces,beautiful architecture and places to go and things to do for young people. there are actual reasons the rents are higher.

And the population has changed dramatically.

UWS isn't nearly as middle class as it used to be. It's also quickly becoming less liberal, more expensive, more elitist. The buildings going up are replacing a lot of the SROs that were spliced in with co-ops. Lot of old businesses are being priced out and the locals feel the squeeze.

UES is largely the same, but that Second Avenue line is gonna fuck up the money

I'm comparing UES/UWS to other NY neighborhoods, as well as neighborhoods in other cities.

Wall Street types with families looking for more space and better schools, and not Brooklyn. It's newer money that came with the a lot of the new housing stock, which includes a lot of buildings with larger apartments, better views, more amenities; etc.

but Tara and Terry mostly agree

My last apt like 2 years ago on Amsterdam and 106 was a 2bdr (w/office) railroad for under 2k

My brother is looking on UES (below 110th) and finding similar prices for 1 bdr.

I feel like there are definitely spots through UES and UWS and obviously inwood/wash hts has some affordable spots

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/fee/5112032434.html

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/nfb/5094060723.html

DON'T BLOW MY SPOT

Ha...

I've had 2 apts there..

It's awesome.. mad cheap food plates and the cloisters

TELL ME MORE!

Dunno bout that... Uptown and BK are just different vibes...

Wash Hts is DR heavy so that will be the dominant culture.. but with gentrified Harlem close and ppl starting to part in Wash Hts you get a good mix. It's not gonna be the park slope-y, clinton hill, ft greene vibe at all though

*clutches rent-stabilized lease close to chest*

what is the general opinion on a number for rent where most people will say "oh, you will be fine at that point, you can nearly go anywhere at that price"

is it....3k? 5k?

seems like the average spot hovers around the 1600-2200 mark

but then I have a friend who was once a broker and he would cake off getting the seriously rich into 25k mo apartments

so....i guess i have no point of reference

im doing pretty good for myself but my credit is in the shit tank because I was poor and ignorant (trust me I am working on it)

recently responded to a FOR RENT sign and the person responsible for the sign happened to be on the premises. We meet and as soon as dude sees me (no "hello", nothing...) he says

"whats your credit score?"

i was thrown off balance and I tried to explain that I actually make good money and I've been on the ball but he wasnt hearing anything

so...what do you do if you can afford to do it but your credit is just straight up garbage water?

i've heard a few ways but I'm curious what the veterans here say

this is what i have heard