http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2015/07/06/video-shows-punch-that-led-to-qbs-arrest/29775149/

Now, would anyone say that this move was done in self defense? I've been hearing arguments on both sides already. I feel that he could have completely avoided it all, and he knows his punch would overpower anything she threw at him. But she does appear to be the instigator to me, and she swings first, directly to his face, as he's trying to hold her arms down..which seemed to be after she cut him in line.

This one's gonna be messy.

Joe Mixon. He got the superstar treatment.

Dude knocked the chick out and left her with a bunch of fractures in the face.
He got community service and was suspended for the season. He's back on the team this year

He claimed it was self defense though and I think he had a decent argument

I was only on FSU's campus a handful of times but it felt like they were looking for a reason to get black men hemmed up

if he went to FAMU and didnt play ball, it might just be another night where the police got involved. I saw more than a few white on white letout fights, one dude even socked the other one in front of the cops while he was cuffed

but yeah self defense wont fly if you assault a white girl

"When she addressed him at the bar, she raised her arm to defend herself, and he grabbed her arm and began pushing her. She raised her knee into his midsection to push him away and attempted to punch him, court records say, before Johnson punched her on the left side of her face."

She prolly called him the N word as well because Florida. She raised her arm to punch him, he grabbed it trying to defuse the situation. She put her knee into his midsection then tried to punch him. Yeah, her merely defended himself from an overly aggressive woman drunk of privilege. Looks like he held back being the gentleman he is.

*EDIT*

I in no way condone his actions but everyone wasn't raised to hit women. Especially someone that is so flagrantly disrespectful and quick to resort to violence. I would've walked away but this young man didn't.

and I wouldn't at all be shocked if she called him a "nigger" or said something out of pocket. I've dealt with so many drunk annoying girls at clubs/bars, and we all know how logic goes all the way out the window.

I don't know...I feel like he's just in a position where that can't be the outcome. Black QB who hasn't proved anything on the field yet, in a super racist town, 6'5 or some shit, and at a bar (he might have been ordering Sprite, but still, he's 19).

>"When she addressed him at the bar, she raised her arm to
>defend herself, and he grabbed her arm and began pushing her.
>She raised her knee into his midsection to push him away and
>attempted to punch him, court records say, before Johnson
>punched her on the left side of her face."

This is off, video proves that LOL. "Attempted to punch him" - naw, she blatantly punched him in the face.

like seriously...she thought she was going to get over


Idk how I feel about this...she hit him first. He has the right to defend himself...right???

1) They both get charged with assault
or
2) Only the woman gets charged with assault

>1) They both get charged with assault
I feel like you shouldn't be charged with assault if you are defending yourself...unless you use excessive force. Which it doesn't look like he used, because he didn't knock her out. lol


>2) Only the woman gets charged with assault
this should be the only solution

debates. And it goes so many ways. If she had been 5'10 and athletic, or even a Rhonda Roussey type, while he had been a puny nerdy 5'2 112 pound guy, and she punched him first, would it be more sympathy for the guy?

Hell, I had a taller, bigger girl come at me completely sideways, as if she was ready to literally hit me, back in 10th grade. Shit, even had an older fat lesbian pull me out of my seat on the bus because it was "her seat," and when I pushed her back, people were still mad at me because "she's a girl!"

I feel like you hit me, I hit you...your sex be damned.



now just to be a troll...if this were Caitlyn Jenner and she hit a woman, what is the outcome?

with Caitlynn, because it's her, some folks would defend it now. But any other one may receive backlash

we get a free chance to hit someone back each time they hit us.

if i hit you and you have no good reason to expect i'm going to hit again then if you hit me in return your act isn't justified.

Dude has a huge size advantage on her.

Maybe the example you gave is though of the 5'10 girl versus 5'2 guy.


I generally don't believe a guy should NEVER hit a woman. If a dude is in legitimate danger from a woman or the woman has a real size advantage I think its okay for a guy to fight a woman.

But as a dude who has been clocked hard by a woman, it never occurred to me to swing back on a woman like that.







>debates. And it goes so many ways. If she had been 5'10 and
>athletic, or even a Rhonda Roussey type, while he had been a
>puny nerdy 5'2 112 pound guy, and she punched him first, would
>it be more sympathy for the guy?
>
>Hell, I had a taller, bigger girl come at me completely
>sideways, as if she was ready to literally hit me, back in
>10th grade. Shit, even had an older fat lesbian pull me out of
>my seat on the bus because it was "her seat," and when I
>pushed her back, people were still mad at me because "she's a
>girl!"


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

not because of the size dynamics.

When you were clocked, what was the reason?

especially for him, he got waaaay too much to lose.

was being hit by a woman...he shouldn't defend himself?


gender roles be damned, when I have a son, he will know to respect a woman but if ANYONE puts their hands on you in a THREATINING fashion...knock 'em out!

defend yourself.

a chic if they touch em

he has a lot more to lose than her and from what we saw there his safety would not have been threatened had he walk away.

I wouldn't be caught in a bar underage drinking either...

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

between not defending yourself and knocking a girl out

>between not defending yourself and knocking a girl out

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

after looking at it 3 times...I still say she was the aggressor *shrugs*

the other is white.

hey ... that rhymes

him the opportunity to get away from the violent aggressor rather than escalate the situation.

and if it happened, it was only possible because he was right up on her - his choice.

Under Section 776.012, Florida Statutes, a person is justified in the use of non-deadly force in self-defense where the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. There is no duty to retreat.

^ if they go w/a self-defense theory his lawyers will have to convince a jury that De'Andre REASONABLY believed he needed to punch that woman in the face to defend himself against her imminent battery. based on that video i dunno. i'd wanna hear the state's offer.

Is it common procedure for the state to go ham at first with a heavy charge and then offer something lesser later?

i'd anticipate the defendant will proceed on a self-defense theory and would be prepared to handle that by arguing that his belief that he needed to defend himself against an imminent battery was unreasonable b/c though she hit first based on the video (and her assumed testimony and that of others) she wasn't going to hit him again after she'd punched him in the shoulder.

it wasn't clear she was going to hit him again, at least I don't think she would.

He reacted and struck back.

He was defending himself when he grabbed her arm in the beginning to keep from getting hit. he hit her because, fuck you bitch. you wanna hit somebody in the face, i'll hit you back.

while i completely get the sentiment, i wouldn't call it self-defense.

though i'd argue that shit if i were his attorney. lol

while its still alive, then eating it while recording it and posting on youtube.

been his ass.
Then again, they could just be wait til he gets older and do an OJ.

or it looked that way. he could have said all sorts of excuse me's that we don't know about. but from that video he looked like he could have been drunk and pushy.

now...she made a fist first. then he grabbed her wrist. then she swung. then he swung. i think it was a complete over-reaction on his part, but that's why you never put your hands on anybody, cause you don't know how they'll react.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

like he was supposed to just deal with it. And it looked like he was on some "nah, you ain't about to cut me!" type stuff, versus just letting it go. And it does look like those Black girls were there for a good 2-3 minutes ordering, so I can imagine him being mad that she cut. But either way, he "stood his ground" when it would have been easier to let it all go.

It seemed like she punched him without even caring that he might knock her out...but when she got rocked, her entire tune changed. He punched her from 0.10 to 0.000000.

and dude looked like he came outta nowhere.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

and was jockeying for a spot to the left of where the black chic was...
yt girl went for the spot next to glasses dude...and boxed QB out and tried to take the whole section....

they both could fit....QB just had to wait 1 more sec till the black chick moved all the way out...cause he even said something to the black chic

as a dude...9.99999 times outta 10 ...if its a chic...u let that slide

>as a dude...9.99999 times outta 10 ...if its a chic...u let
>that slide

he coulda let it slide. but it looked to me like he was drunk anyway. not an excuse, but you give hyped up 19 year olds liquor and bad things happen. i know they did for me.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

I didn't see it that way you described. But no matter the details, he's wrong.

if that was a 350 lb linebacker telling him to back up off her he would have done so.

he probably wouldn't have been a guys space like that.

Men will say excuse me when they need to get by men and avoiding brushing up against them, but won't because pressing your body against a woman isn't 'gay'.

he's all in her personal space, pushed up all against her back.

it's ridiculous.

she told him to back off and he refused and told her to f off.

You don't want people bumping into you or touching you in a crowded ass bar then you stay home. She was being the bully. She turned her head and saw where he was at and then swung her left shoulder into him. Then proceeded to clench her fist and threaten him.

I don't care if a nun is trolling you and trying to get you to hit her. Protect your future. Not your pride.


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

im normally equal rights, equal lefts

but in this case leaving quickly is the best option

should "stay in their place", so to speak.

Anytime any of us point this out, you say we're overreacting.

This guy being black and the chick being a blonde white chick makes him even more stupid for doing it. KIM.
____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

in making the situation negatively unique for him.

>This guy being black and the chick being a blonde white chick
>makes him even more stupid for doing it. KIM.
>

https://youtu.be/zgrrjh5_7IM

http://i.imgur.com/oaYTny0.jpg

.
.
.
"Romans 10 : 9 says, "If you declare
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved."

Wasn't even holding her arm right. And she had that drunken smirk on her face. Homeboy basically simped up and clocked some white chick because he felt disrespected. Probably a mad slammable dude.

He better hope he gets off on the technicality that she may have instigated shit, though he really shouldn't get off for this shit.

He wrong as two left shoes.

He ran up on this girl

Violated her personal space

And then grabbed her and slugged her for holding her hand up

>He wrong as two left shoes.
>
>He ran up on this girl
>
>Violated her personal space
>
>And then grabbed her and slugged her for holding her hand up
>
>

>He wrong as two left shoes.
>
>He ran up on this girl
>
>Violated her personal space
>
>And then grabbed her and slugged her for holding her hand up
>
>

with her thumb

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

Like black quarterbacks.

i'm not signing up for 30 days of whatever w/that newspaper.

>i'm not signing up for 30 days of whatever w/that newspaper.

You don't need to.

i had to disable Adblocker.

>>i'm not signing up for 30 days of whatever w/that
>newspaper.
>
>You don't need to.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--AfLENCun--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/1329065383409587489.gif

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--AfLENCun--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/1329065383409587489.gif

Just to be clear, if she were Ronda Rousey...shit still wild out of pocket on his part. Like, men gotta stop hitting women, duh BUT obligatory, "had she been a Black girl/woman...

He STILL wrong & she is a cunt, I have no doubts but umm, I think it may be helpful to teach Black boys/men that as a group (talking structural power here), they are stationed below all non-Black women but ESPECIALLY white women. I think people don't understand that male privilege has intersections too.

she "threatened" with her fist and then punched him first
he socked her in the face even though there was obviously no real threat to his safety


i'd rather just pretend the whole thing didn't happen and move on

fixed that for you

everything else is collateral after that, IMO

I mean

he could've feared for his life

she was reaching

etc...

bottom line

she instigated the whole scenario

tried to box the homie out

cocks her right hand

wrapped up by ol' boy

swings the left

LOL@walking away

c'mon.

EQUALITY!

as bogus as the woman may have been...that wasn't a situation to swing. she was no threat...only thing hurt was his pride.

yup. I said it

D

why wasnt she charged?

thats the bullshit

All women are innocent angels even if their actions and evidence show otherwise?

.
.
.
"Romans 10 : 9 says, "If you declare
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved."

.

.
.
.
"Romans 10 : 9 says, "If you declare
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved."

Some things you just don't do.

they get to beat on you. That is 100 percent self defense, with justifiable force, and he didn't continue to beat on her or anything like that. Not that it matters but If he wouldn't have punched her she looked like she was going to continue swinging. Gender has to be thrown out in a court of law. A human got attacked by another human, defended himself against said human, and didn't keep at it once the threat was eliminated. Also he tried to defuse the situation when she had made a fist and he tried to grab her arm and reason with her.

You don't even have to let someone be within arm's reach of you acting in a menacing manner, that's already assault. You just have to make sure you respond with appropriate and not excessive force.

Of course in the real world where people are biased idiots, he may be screwed.

based on the video i saw it didn't look like she was going to hit him again after she hit his shoulder. based on the video i'm not sure he reasonably believed she was going to hit him again. but there's more t to the story than the video. i dunno what they were saying to each other.

If it HAD to get physical on his end a good slap, push, shake, woulda been all that was needed. No need causing real physical harm unless it's life and death.

He tried that and it didn't work. What if she took a glass and threw it at him damaging his football career? That situation needed to be diffused and he took the best course of action in order to stop this reckless individual. This seems like an easy self defense case to me.

> What if she took a glass
>and threw it at him damaging his football career? That
>situation needed to be diffused and he took the best course of
>action in order to stop this reckless individual.

Not a good one.

If he wasn't looking for or wanting a reason to hit a woman and he was interested in keeping his career viable then he would have:

A. Turned his back when seeing the glass object coming or taken some other defensive position.

B. Pushed her away from him and left the scene or simply left the scene before things got more physical. Just because a woman hits you it does not mean you are now obligated to hit back.

C. De escalated the situation in some other way because hitting back was not an option.

D. Pressed charges if seriously injured.

If he wanted to or was willing to hit a woman he would not have done any of the above. His life not being at risk makes his actions even more egregious.

self defense or not

he is a big black man

she is a small blonde woman

people will read this shit all sorts of ways

have you ever been to Yiannis? Geesh. I need to watch the video and read the article. I just saw Yiannis and had flashbacks.

-edit-
I've been to Yiannis and judging from the crowd around the bar it doesn't look like much has changed. Given the tenor of the article and the "victims" statement, it sounds like the same crowd.

that said, it appears that when he grabbed her right hand it seems like he was trying to stop her from hitting him with the right and she came with the left. not sure i agree that he had no reason to think she wouldn't hit again. not much time passed between her hit and hit hitting her. not sure he could judge that other than he was holding her right hand and she came with the left. to me that says she was willing to strike him with whatever means she had (assuming she was right handed).

1) Ignore the chick, get a hand on the bar & focus 2) Dance too hard at a small opening. People will move away. 3) Don't dance at all..and make the "I see through your fuckery" eye contact. They know what they're doing and will usually calm down with the pushing and drunk routine 4) Call in reinforcements 5) Buy her a shot, she needs it more than you.


And did the other dudes really not see the punch (feel the breeze?) or did they feign ignorance to keep the party going?

No amount of smooth talking was going to calm her drunk ass down.

on your recruiting trip buddy...

not a smart move.

she did hit him first..... that's why young ladies need to be cool with stepping to dudes like that..Not every young man believes that a man should never hit a woman...and young ladies need to act as if that isn't a given...

She suffered the consequences. Don't swing on anybody, there's a chance of you getting swung back on.

That if the black guy would have cut blondie off, made a comment, raised his fist took a swing and miss and then blondie bust him in his grill, people would be cheering for her. Bottom line she deserved that one.

That if he would have done nothing, blondie would have gone to the bouncer and said a damn black guy is harassing her and that she is scared for her life, forcing the bouncers to rough him up and the story still get leaked to the press. "FSU QB fight bouncers after harassing Blonde Goddess".

If this wasnt on tape he wouldnt be off the team.

Dude had so much to lose, no reason to hit a woma who posed no real threat.

Isn't there another way he could've defended himself other than going to that extreme?

He has the right to defend himself but he teed off on her ass.

money or not?

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://bit.ly/1Uu7I1E

I dont know college sports like that, but can he ever make the league now?

Dude was drunk and wrong as well. He pushed his way rudely to the front. She was drunk too and look like she was half playing at first. She shoulda never struck him but him singing back was overkill

He dipped off with the quickness cause he knew he was dead wrong and fucked up. Prolly sobered all the way up in that moment too

He's definitely hit a woman before

>Dude was drunk and wrong as well. He pushed his way rudely to
>the front. She was drunk too and look like she was half
>playing at first. She shoulda never struck him but him singing
>back was overkill
>
>He dipped off with the quickness cause he knew he was dead
>wrong and fucked up. Prolly sobered all the way up in that
>moment too
>
>He's definitely hit a woman before


She was wrong also but that was way too much force to retaliate

They both should of walked away

But he could've seriously hurt her swinging like that

Excessive force, he should've been a man like Jay-z

U can see her deliberately looking over her shoulder seeing which side of her he was approaching on them threw the back of her shoulder into him and turned around and raised her fist. Lol@that being playfully behavior. Anyway they were both drunk but she is clearly the aggressor.

He was part of escalating it by grabbing her and Punching her in the face wasn't defending himself.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

.
.
.
"Romans 10 : 9 says, "If you declare
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved."

What are you basing this statement on? Is it too much force because she is a woman, or just too much force in general?
If we replace the woman with another football player, is it still to much force?

To me, it looks to me like he responded with equal force. He was just better at punching than she is.
Just like if it was a shootout. The fact that you hit your target and the other guy missed doesn't mean that you used more force.

The whole logic of having to assess the potential strength and fighting ability of your attacker before striking back is dumb.

The appropriateness of a course of action should be the same no matter what the gender, size, strength, etc. of the aggressor.

People are using OKP Logic, which changes like todays mathematics. You have to know how to decipher this mess on the daily.



.
.
.
"Romans 10 : 9 says, "If you declare
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved."

I don't understand the metaphor.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/07/about-that-common-core-math-problem-making-the-rounds-on-facebook/

.
.
.
"Romans 10 : 9 says, "If you declare
with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that
God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved."

it dont even matter if she bucked first or not. thats how the shit work. he supposed to be smarter than that.

Only difference is she sucks at punching.

I'm not trying to defend his actions. His best course would have been to get away from the situation (whether it was a woman or otherwise). Especially since he has a lot on the line.

But if you are going to choose to defend yourself, you either do it all the way or you don't do it at all.
You don't throw a half assed punch and you don't shoot a pinky toe.

she was not a threat.

>What are you basing this statement on? Is it too much force
>because she is a woman, or just too much force in general?
>If we replace the woman with another football player, is it
>still to much force?
>
>To me, it looks to me like he responded with equal force. He
>was just better at punching than she is.
>Just like if it was a shootout. The fact that you hit your
>target and the other guy missed doesn't mean that you used
>more force.
>
>The whole logic of having to assess the potential strength and
>fighting ability of your attacker before striking back is
>dumb.
>
>The appropriateness of a course of action should be the same
>no matter what the gender, size, strength, etc. of the
>aggressor.
>


Maybe technically according to the law but it was still a punk move

He's an elite athlete , sort of equivalent to the fact that boxers attacking regular people have greater consequence

I've dealt with aggressive women before never had to hit one

i can't help analyzing these things w/an eye toward jury instructions.

i know at trial a jury would be instructed to consider whether the football REASONABLY BELIEVED he *NEEDED* to defend himself against an **IMMINENT** battery. i know the jury won't be given a (misogynist, woman-hating) instruction to consider what-if-she-were-a-man-just-like-him-since-these-bitches-want-equal-rights-they-gotta-take-equal-fights.

so i look at this from a court angle, not a barbershop or He-Man-Woman-Haters angle.

my bad?

anyway, in court the brother would have some trouble if the jury sees that video. b/c that hit will turn most of them off, i imagine. but there's more to the story than the video - maybe he or someone else can testify to something she said that will help support the theory that he REASONABLY believed he needed to defend himself. i dunno.

as for my personal opinion - yes, i think the brother went too far striking that woman in the face as he did. i think he was retaliating against her for having hit him first and not defending himself. i hear he's been cut from the football team and i think that's best for him and the program.

But I'm not looking at it from the courtroom perspective. Because that is largely dependent of the jury's biases and preconceived notions.

Our biases tell us that that is just a woman and there's no way she could inflict any harm on him and that he should know that.

Similarly a jury's bias might lead them to believe that a hoodie wearing black man is inherently aggressive and side with the police in a excessive force case.

The outcome of a trial does not always resolve the question of what is right.

I'm not trying to be in the He Man Woman Haters club. I just believe in consistency.
This story would play out a lot differently (both in court and in the news) if he had punched a frail, anorexic man instead of this woman.

>Our biases tell us that that is just a woman and there's no
>way she could inflict any harm on him and that he should know
>that.
>
>Similarly a jury's bias might lead them to believe that a
>hoodie wearing black man is inherently aggressive and side
>with the police in a excessive force case.
>
>The outcome of a trial does not always resolve the question of
>what is right.

>But I'm not looking at it from the courtroom perspective.
>Because that is largely dependent of the jury's biases and
>preconceived notions.

in my experience juries tend to apply the law (jury instructions) to the facts (evidence they saw and heard at trial) appropriately. keep in mind i'm not just talking about high profile jury trial verdicts reported in the news.

>Our biases tell us that that is just a woman and there's no
>way she could inflict any harm on him and that he should know
>that.

nope that's not going on for me at all, actually.

>Similarly a jury's bias might lead them to believe that a
>hoodie wearing black man is inherently aggressive and side
>with the police in a excessive force case.

not so much. having actually tried excessive force cases and even served on a jury in a similar case i believe after they've sat through days of testimony and been instructed by a judge they don't necessarily fall back on bias when they deliberate.

>The outcome of a trial does not always resolve the question of
>what is right.

no, it's more about what was proved in court.

>I'm not trying to be in the He Man Woman Haters club.

oh okay. if you say so.

I just
>believe in consistency.

i don't think you're trying very hard. that's a pretty constant dog whistle used by woman-haters.

>This story would play out a lot differently (both in court and
>in the news) if he had punched a frail, anorexic man instead
>of this woman.

but she's not a frail, anorexic man. and my opinion would be the same if she were - homie was retaliating unfairly.

He was just as wrong as she was

I don't like that they didn't press charge once they saw this
She clearly assaulted him
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

At the most her weak punch deserved a shove and then he should've walked away. There was no need for his punch at all, that was some pussy shit. Overall it was a stupid situation.
____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

specifically.

>What are you basing this statement on? Is it too much force
>because she is a woman, or just too much force in general?
>If we replace the woman with another football player, is it
>still to much force?


I think it's too much force in general given the size difference and the weak ass slow no form punch she threw. If a guy of a similar build threw a similar punch, after laughing his ass off, he should have walked away Especially, given who he is in life.



>
>To me, it looks to me like he responded with equal force. He
>was just better at punching than she is.


See your standard is retaliatory as oppose to defensive. I think its clear his punch was retaliation (because she hit him) and not defensive (to protect himself and get out of the situation). Would you agree?

>Just like if it was a shootout. The fact that you hit your
>target and the other guy missed doesn't mean that you used
>more force.
>The whole logic of having to assess the potential strength and
>fighting ability of your attacker before striking back is
>dumb.

Yet we do it all the time. If a child hit you, wouldn't you agree that you don't have the right to strike back retaliatory? A senior citizen? A disabled person?

And you can think I am fcuked up for comparing women to children, old people and disabled people but I am not comparing all women. Just this woman. If Their sizes were equal or she showed real fighting ability I think I would see this differently. Conversely, if the agressor was a frail man throwing a similar punch I think I would see it the same.

I think my assessment is thoroughly consistent.

>
>The appropriateness of a course of action should be the same
>no matter what the gender, size, strength, etc. of the
>aggressor.

If that is the rule then I should be fucking up these kids on the playground.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

but some dudes are raised thinking it's okay to hit a woman if she hits you.

shake her don't break her...

>shake her don't break her...


Nah I'm sure he thought he could do something like that, just grab her and hem her up.

Didn't work so well. It just enraged her and the situation blew up.

Men need to just keep their hands to themselves.

You can discuss whether she deserved it untimely you're blue in the face and make arguments on how he was morally right.

But at the end of the day all he had to do was keep his hands to himself.

we need to start telling both genders this. bc when we don't, it ignores the issues of violence by women.

its indefensible for him that he retaliated and should\is paying for it. she shouldn't be let off the hook though, bc she was being violent as well and that's not ok.


>Men need to just keep their hands to themselves.
>
>You can discuss whether she deserved it untimely you're blue
>in the face and make arguments on how he was morally right.
>
>But at the end of the day all he had to do was keep his hands
>to himself.

but yeah to all of this part of the message.

It could easily be argued that he retaliated against her punch, not defended against. In which case, it would be a fight and both would be in trouble.
This is what I actually think the fair outcome should be.

I was going to include the caveat to exclude children from the argument, but I thought it was so ridiculous that it didn't need to be explicitly stated.
But yes, children are a reasonable exception. The elderly and handicapped as well.
I don't think a healthly adult woman falls into the same category of defenselessness as these groups.

>But yes, children are a reasonable exception. The elderly and
>handicapped as well.

What if the child is Lebron James 6'3 15 year old? See what I am getting at.

The rule that captures small children, disabled, elderly and some women that a person shouldn't be hitting is the rule that a court would likely use which is would a reasonable person in that situation feel physically threatened in that situation enough to justify striking someone given a totality of the circumstances.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

It's probably a 5 -8 year old and that's not cool.

>What are you basing this statement on? Is it too much force
>because she is a woman, or just too much force in general?
>If we replace the woman with another football player, is it
>still to much force?
>
>To me, it looks to me like he responded with equal force. He
>was just better at punching than she is.
>Just like if it was a shootout. The fact that you hit your
>target and the other guy missed doesn't mean that you used
>more force.
>
>The whole logic of having to assess the potential strength and
>fighting ability of your attacker before striking back is
>dumb.
>
>The appropriateness of a course of action should be the same
>no matter what the gender, size, strength, etc. of the
>aggressor.
>


If a 10 year old happened to punch you in the face, are you just going to tee off because hey, he tried to hit you as hard as he could?

Nah, you're going to realize that he is much weaker and smaller than you and restrict your reaction appropriately.

It's the same concept for most men dealing with most women. Most women aren't really a physical threat to most men with just their bare hands so hitting a woman as if she's a man is often excessive.

>
>It's the same concept for most men dealing with most women.
>Most women aren't really a physical threat to most men with
>just their bare hands so hitting a woman as if she's a man is
>often excessive.

The fact that you can replace the actors in this exact situation (I.e make it a man v man or woman v woman) and end up with a different conclusion about what is right or wrong doesn't sit well with me.

*shrugs*

no matter who the ppl involved - the questions are the same if the defendant claims self-defense...did s/he REASONABLY believe s/he needed to defend her/himself against an imminent battery. if so, did s/he use REASONABLE force in defending her/himself?

in deciding whether the defendant acted reasonably the jury would be asked what a reasonable person would do if they were in the defendant's place given all of the circumstances the defendant faced. the complaining witness's demographics are part of the analysis - including gender, height, weight, perceived strength, perceived physical capability, et al. and yes, all of that info would be compared against the defendant's.

cry all you want about how unfair this is for men. too bad.

I didn't like when they did this "analysis" for Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin. And I still don't like it

>
the complaining witness's demographics are
>part of the analysis - including gender, height, weight,
>perceived strength, perceived physical capability, et al. and
>yes, all of that info would be compared against the
>defendant's.
>
>cry all you want about how unfair this is for men. too bad.
>

The analysis shouldn't be did that girl at the pool put her hands on the cop or struggle with the cop. The analysis should be was his use of force justified given who he was dealing with.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

But Team Teenager could see a 19 year old justifying being hit/tapped and thinking it's ok to retaliate because they "hit first".

that bitch, lol

but at least team scholarship shoulda known better

as a general rule all people should live by, keep your hands to yourself. if you hit someone you are very likely going to get hit back with equal or greater force. be prepared for that shit.

Would make sense if they charged them both but that's not the world we live in.

For the sons it's "don't hit a woman. Even if she hits you first".

The rule for daughters is "don't expect all dudes to be like your brothers. If you hit a dude, expect that he will hit you back".


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

did you notice that:

a. he pushed her before she raised her fist. She put the fist up with the forearm in his chest like "back up off me"

b. she did not strike him until he GRABBED HER.

and he got what he deserved. You can't just be tappin a chick's jaw in response to a weak-wristed flail of a punch, especially when you was on some aggressor shit to begin with.

>and he got what he deserved. You can't just be tappin a
>chick's jaw in response to a weak-wristed flail of a punch,
>especially when you was on some aggressor shit to begin with.

especially when you're a QB at FSU and the national championship, heisman trophy winning dude that just left BARELY beat a rape charge.

Never go into a bar where one of the bartenders has on an overall short set with no shirt on underneath.

.

with the same size difference they would both catch a charge. they're both wrong for this.

She did not strike until she was physically grabbed.

it didn't start out of nowhere...seems like two adults acting like dumbasses to me which escalated quickly. i don't see an innocent party in the video...just one who got the upper hand at the end.

He will catch his L...he deserves it. But she deserves one too...maybe getting punched in the face was hers, i dunno. If you think about the severity of his potential punishment vs hers (none) and look at the incident does it really make sense to you? It doesn't to me.

for the course at a crowded bar. I don't know what yall saw but I saw him put his hands on her first.

It easily looks like he escalated it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

maybe that's not grounds for a slug to the face, but we should try to understand where he was coming from a bit more.

he didn't strike first. we don't know what was said.

yeah, he shoulda been cooler and if it was a black woman i'd be sad right now.

but im not.

>but I saw him "put his hands on her first. "


was to stop the first attempted assault

which she clearly intended to follow up with a knee/kick and her left fist

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and she never swung.

This is a much better video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGGdlL5U61U

she did swing and hit
and kneed him

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

she was going to hit him, whether she was really going to hit him or not.

yelling at him and holding him off with the other forearm. Then he grabbed her

...or didn't have time to consider how much smaller she was...

He considered how much smaller she was , his threat level and decided to grab her.

If it was a guy he probably would have backed up or hit him.

He grabbed it almost immediately. Should he have waited till she stole him? This is all without audio so let's just assume she wasn't just yelling asking him for a pound/dap.

without being charged


might be a lesser charge
might not
either way it was a bar fight

they both should be charged
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

since she was grabbed. She tried to ward off a man who pushed her, and then he grabbed her.

he grabbed a balled up fist


which she clearly followed through with her intended assault using her other fist and her knee


either way
she should have been charged as well
and battle it out in court

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

they will throw the book at him regardless but it doesn't make it right. they should both catch a charge

was saying "yep, that's the quarterback from Florida State, he's going down girl!", the white chick probably had no idea who he was.

Also I'm wondering is that one of those 18 and over bars? If not they could be in big trouble for dude even being in there. If it is 18+ they still might be in trouble because it looks like the bartender sells that other group of girls a pitcher of alcohol and some cups.

SoWhat maybe you can help me understand

how does that* usually play out in a court of law during a fight regarding instigating an assault



*a push from behind no hands
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

he grabbed her and plucked her
but i didn't see him push her

his shoulder

don't act like you don't know what happens when folks jockey for position at the bar


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and a push

he bumped into her

happens all the time.....nowhere near the same as pushing someone


I aint condoning his actions

but it is what it is

>I aint condoning his actions
>but it is what it is

he touched someone to get into a space he was clearly too big for
and they did not like it

feel even better?

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

a chic does not make me feel better

you understand how he got to where he is
and fully understand where both were wrong in this

then maybe
but right now
nah
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

take if from a NYer
and esp a woman


dudes are WAY to liberal with a woman's space
more so than another mans
y'all need to btfu and chill
he was wrong there
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

to the bar was to walk right through her.

he would be and should be and is charged.

justifiable?


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>RE: she likely wouldn't be charged.
>he would be and should be and is charged.
>

Like he punched her because she punched him and he was mad, not because he was trying to protect himself and get out of the situation.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

seriously tho... I wonder how he feels right now.

They love you to death making you feel like an invincible God, until they don't. And then they treat you like every other black male who can't work a a ball.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

i had a similar moment
an encounter with a middle aged eastern european woman at a turnstile

very similar to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV5dCQmpaHk


a black man was smart and kind enough to restrain me before i beat the crap out of her


immediately after i realized
no matter what she did to me
push/kick in the pants

me beating her down (easily)
would result with me in jail
and trying to explain to the judge that she "shoved me"

i hit 30 at that time
past time to learn that lesson
dont do it
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

He didn't need to hit her because he was defending himself, and it was his only means to keep from being hurt. He hit her as a reaction, and to punish her for hitting him.

That said, I were him, I would still argue the self-defense angle all up and down. plus instinctively if you get punched in the face, it's hard to not hit back just off reflex. He's fucked though, because ultimately he did have a choice.

https://twitter.com/BSO/status/618419441177612288

Yall ready to walk it back or nah?

i'm not sure that's true and even if it is - that's not the way.

nah...he's still done

I don't know how much weight you put in that report.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

.... It's justified. I told y'all she prolly called him an N word and that was the breaking point. She repeatedly assaulted and dehumanized him. NO ONE AROUND THEM DID ANYTHING. They saw him getting attacked repeatedly and no one jumped in.

He clearly reached a breaking point and had enough of the situation. He held back throwing the punch from the looks of things so there wasn't an attempt to harm her but diffuse the situation.

TL;DR Everyone was not trained to walk away from repeated attacks and then dehumanizing language. Additionally, it is impossible to gauge someone's perceived strength in any situation in order to protect yourself.

Put yourself in his situation and for the love of everything don't punch and put knees in the stomach of random men you don't know. Everyone not walking away because of the patriarchy and taking the L...

I can't tell if yall are being sarcastic or not.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

... is dehumanizing them (us). At some point dude had to defend himself and felt the need to. For anyone responding with neagtivity put yourself in his situation. You at a bar getting punched, kneed in the stomach/groin AND called a derogatory term that dehumanizes you. No one in the bar does anything. What do you do?

He gets DRAGGED through the mud and she gets to go on a sympathy tour and receive little to no recourse from this as well. Good for her as I'm sure life her future prospects are bright.

The clear loser in this situation is the QB but I'm failing to see a way out of the situation that isn't shitty for him. If she lets it go then she goes to the bouncers and this turns into QB gets into a fight with bouncers.

*EDIT for clarity*

ME personally in this situation? I'm saying excuse me or behind you prior to approaching the bar. If she throws the first punch I'm walking away. Anything after that is in the lord's hands. WE GON PRAY that everyone is a good person and understands that you shouldn't say certain things to certain people, take additional action, and hid behind certain privileges.

are you watching a different video?

called him a nigger.

used a word that references when this law considered us 3/5 human.

or less of a man.

get it?

were saying that based on the video. I got it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

remain perfect in your eyes.

but im very wiling to believe that she wasn't the poster child for being congenial toward the young black man as he tried to jockey position for the bar.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

fucking MRA asses


he wasn't right either
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I'm not defending him at all.

He was wrong for defending himself/punching her. She was wrong for the punch, the kick to the groin/stomach, AND dehumanizing him. However, he's taking the full punishment.

better clean that up then

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

man yall are hilarious

more than the actual events?

Are people judging the situation based on the negative consequences of:

* him being kicked out of school and facing assault charges
* feeling a sense of manhood questioned by women
* another case where black men are portrayed as vicious, violent criminals

.

1) why is a kid that's 19 trying to body his way to the bar?
2) what trash pit of a bar sells vodka/grain/whatever that was and juice in A PITCHER then hands out plastic cups to the buyer to distribute the crap?
3)bartender visibly tried to pretend he didn't know that was going on.


Long story short: Florida is a cesspool where trashy people do trashy shit and get punched or punch each other in the face.

Most college towns have this bar. It's the one that's 18 & up and serves just about anyone who gets through the door. The drinks are watered down and probably made with the cheapest of liquor. 95% of the kids in there are hammered.

I don't have much experience with college bars up north but the few I seen were much nicer than the shit in NC, SC, FL and TN.

hell...I got a headache.....

if defense was NEEDED, I'd agree......can't call it on this one tho.
seems like he tried to detain her but she got a 1-2 in.......so in that case....he 1'ed her.......

*shrugs*

"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

It's classic, "If you shoot me, you famous, if I shoot you, I'm brainless"

Charge them both, who is the real loser? I think it's the dude who just f'd up his chance to play ball.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

Not a lawyer and not riding for dude, but I have to think that if both parties are charged then that might preclude a lawsuit or reduce what he could potentially be charged with.

consequences for this. But dude will definitely feel life consequences for this.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

and it comes out where she attends school or works
odds are it will affect her personally as well


you bar fight
consequences
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

he's charged w/misdemeanor battery. the charge may be reduced as part of a plea deal and if so the battery may not show up on many background checks. and if it does many folks who do the checking won't care about a battery conviction. those convictions are fairly common - especially among young ppl. they become more of a problem if there's a pattern - if there are multiple arrests for battery or other seemingly violent offenses and especially if there are multiple convictions. but one battery conviction isn't necessarily the end of his world. and he may not come out of this w/a battery conviction.

i'd say the same for her if she were charged w/battery.

"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

you think Ray Rice is talking about how he was justified to clock his fiance for hitting him first and spitting on him?

we talking bout life changing repercussions.

what black man cares about the law in this case?

.

you are. i saw an assault and battery...on video. and i don't even know that broad's name. if she ain't charged, that's a miscarriage of justice

i'd say that even if she hit yo broke ass



haha jokes. i don't know if u broke or not. but i'd say that if she hit any one of us. fuck him being a football player. hell he's already gonna be put through the ringer. i can see that just by the bias in the reporting and the bias of him being the only one charged


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25235302/lawyer-female-instigated-fsu-qb-punch-with-racial-slur-knee-to-groin

oh wow!

dismissed from anything. and should would have gotten ten times worse than that punch


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/football/2015/07/10/fsu-rb-dalvin-cook-investigation-battery/29971363/

https://nbccollegefootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/nick-saban3.jpg

You know he's involved

He's not the type to party, and the bar they picked is like the only one that has cameras.