>no one's saying atheists cant be assholes when it comes to
>discussing religion
>many are
>
>its one reason i appreciate hitchens approach when discussing
>religion
>
>one nuanced difference i find though, is that a religious
>argument typically ends with a...
>well we are right because god, and no you cant prove his
>existence but he exists and so there. religion is right
>usually there is very little space for doubt (which is why i
>say religion requires faith- thats what it takes to get to
>belief)
>and atheists agree with the religious on this pov: you cant
>prove the existence of god.
>the difference then becomes that atheists stop here...
>religion does not.

Which is crazy, to think that faith is the overcoming of doubt, then to lose respect for the reason why the doubt is there. With all the cautions in the Bible about false prophets, so many people tow a line that allows them to flourish. Even Gideon needed a couple of confirmations to ease his doubts.

>
>>It's a lesson that a lot of Christians need to learn,
>>especially some of the more vocal ones, but there are
>atheists
>>who would do well to remember it too.
>
>no one disagrees with this. at the end of the day human beings
>behavve like human beings
>usually has little to do with religious belief or lack of

I don't know. Sometimes I come across the argument that the world would be so much better without religion.


>>At the same time, I think it stems from Christians who do
>need
>>that sense of Godly fear to keep them in line, because they
>>otherwise lack the empathy to consider others' feelings.
>
>this is a bit.... i dont know.
>i mean its saying these christians are basically horribly
>terrible people
>and christianity is the retainer without which they would go
>on plunderous evil
>i prefer not to believe this
>because we also know that even xtians fail in their mission to
>do good
>i would be fearful if i felt that they were on some lease
>without which they would then be a threat
>(this is the same argument we give for prison/
>punishment/canings etc)
>
>i think religious people deserve/need to come up with a better
>argument than this
>
>teh majority of humans (even though who have no concept of
>religion/ but are spiritual) are inately good
>at this point, its a result of evolution. lets not discredit
>it by saying its because of ...
>

I didn't mean for it to be an across the board statement. But I think for those who really cling to the idea that religion begets morality, there's an element of that type of thinking in there. Otherwise, how could they so fervently believe it to be true?