There is no way that an individual can be all things to all people at the same time. In addition, an individual leader will not be able to please all people or even meet everyones expectations. With that said, and taking the all voices into account, I would like to know what qualities, characteristics, actions, and or abilities that you need in a Pastor.

There are no right or wrong answers. This is just for conversation and knowledge.


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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

Fuck your fort!

towards being a better person. The process seems cyclical to me. I've been going to Buckhead Church a bit lately and I like how Andy Stanley approaches this.

i kid..i kid :D

I'd need a pastor to be a spiritual guide, in instances where I may need assistance in spiritual matters.

Not a political mouthpiece.

Not a moneymaking entity for himself or the church.

Not a media personality.

"Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction..... keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry."

the reason being that......

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. "

with that ( ^^^^ ) in mind, is it not better to be the kind of Pastor that God *calls* you to be rather than the kind of Pastor people want?

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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

>"Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season;
>correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and
>careful instruction..... keep your head in all situations,
>endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all
>the duties of your ministry."
>
>the reason being that......
>
>"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound
>doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather
>around them a great number of teachers to say what their
>itching ears want to hear. "
>
>with that ( ^^^^ ) in mind, is it not better to be the kind of
>Pastor that God *calls* you to be rather than the kind of
>Pastor people want?


^^^^

But it will not get you the Bentley and Private Jet....

"Seasons may come and your luck just may run out, and all that you'll have is some memories..."

of their congregation and the surrounding community...

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

of the flock

trying to derail this post, but it came across my mind this past weekend.

(for reference, I was in a church running sound for a church convention about how to recruit and accept Latinos/Hispanics into the Episcopal church.)

The question though is do Pastors typically pay tithes and offerings as well? In all my years of church, both backstage and in the congregation, I don't personally recall a Pastor putting tithes in the plate.

I'm assuming (if anything) that they maybe have it deducted from their pay? or like put into the pot to make ends meet if necessary. Or I guess it's also possible that they don't *have* to since they are presiding over the church (not in any negative way).

I guess that is to say what would be nice from a pastor is full disclosure and transparency. That and the purpose to be one to serve the church, not to have the church serve them. Your church shouldn't be your building, it should be your congregation.

>trying to derail this post, but it came across my mind this
>past weekend.
>
>(for reference, I was in a church running sound for a church
>convention about how to recruit and accept Latinos/Hispanics
>into the Episcopal church.)
>
>The question though is do Pastors typically pay tithes and
>offerings as well? In all my years of church, both backstage
>and in the congregation, I don't personally recall a Pastor
>putting tithes in the plate.
>
>I'm assuming (if anything) that they maybe have it deducted
>from their pay? or like put into the pot to make ends meet if
>necessary. Or I guess it's also possible that they don't
>*have* to since they are presiding over the church (not in any
>negative way).
>
>I guess that is to say what would be nice from a pastor is
>full disclosure and transparency. That and the purpose to be
>one to serve the church, not to have the church serve them.
>Your church shouldn't be your building, it should be your
>congregation.


I guess it all depends on the Pastor and his situation. Some pastors give their tithes/offerings to an usher, amor bearer, or an administrative person during the service. Sometimes, they give their tithes or offerings before the service. Sometimes their tithes or offerings are taken out of their checks via direct deposit. But I have seen many many pastor try to be an example by giving their tithes/offerings during the service.

But from my experiences I have never know a Pastor to NOT give tithes & offerings. That would be out of line.





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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

cool, thanks for the response.

I pretty much figured as much, but there have been times when pastors at churches I was associated with were not forthcoming about that aspect. It is assumed, but for all the services I've been to in my life I never recalled a pastor putting into the plate, haha wild.

thanks tho, mostly was making sure there was a verse in the Bible that said that pastors shouldn't tithe or something.

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I emailed him on some marriage advice
he asked me whens the last time i went to a service
its been a couple years
his response: if and when you come back ill be excited...if you dont im still excited because I see the lessons learned in the church are still sustaining you

i went to church that sunday lol

when I took my wife home before we were married and she had a chance to see him preach. He is from Jeanette but has been our preacher for years. replaced my grandfather at our church.


during his sermon he said this...

"oh, don't get it twisted, I wasn't always a man of the cloth, before I met my wife back in the day I.WAS.A.DOG. (imagine Martin stompin during each word) uh, oh... So I'm the only one? Fellas, it's okay, no reason to lie. We live in THIS world and no one is pure"

I stood up and pointed and he walked down from the pulpit and gave me a high five.

my wife was shaking her head like she was enbarassed but after the sermon she turned to me and said "he is doing our wedding"

a year later we went home, he asked how the marriage was going and says "and they said it wouldn't last"... dude got jokes.

he is also a beast on the basketball court. haven't been able to find a preacher like that since. hell, can't front... haven't really looked because I don't think I can find one who can do it like he does.

My pastor is an awesome man. I've learned a lot from him.

...to be a great example of God's light in the world.......to give a great messages from The Lord and to have a church that runs fairly well....

I kind of reject the notion that people don't have needs of their pastor or minister. While the needs may be minimal, they are still there. Like how some people only "need" their bosses to get out of their way and let them work.

The biggest need to me is accessibility. Simply put, if I have something going on, I need to be able to talk to you for guidance or advice, or just to get a different POV or opinion. Which is my issue with megachurches. But that's for another poast.

Studies have shown that it's hard for any pastor to be accessible to members once the congregation grows to over 200 members. Thus, many churches try to assign ministry helpers such as ministers, deacons, and small group leaders to be available.



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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

It's part of the reason I hate seeing child preachers. For better or worst, there is very little a child can tell me about life (directly and explicitly).


We once got a new young preacher who tried to decree that no women should be in the pulpit. Meanwhile my moms was 30 years older than him, been active in the struggle and have done more for the community than this young back ever has done. I.was.through.

My favorite type of preachers are those that lived full even wild lives who have seen the light and come to god. It's great when folks can speak from experience. I hate to hear people try to school me on things they no nothing about from experience.

Not saying you have to be a crackhead to speak on not smoking crack. But I would more likely listen to a person who has dealt with addiction or a family member with addiction because they can usually offer more than "Crack is Wack" and things that everyone already knows.


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

in discussing the obvious flaws and contradictions in scripture

i guess maybe religious studies professor or somebody would be better for that lol.

i've never come across one who is strong enough in their faith to venture deep into this kind of conversation without shutting the door of "belief" and "faith" on the room of "facts" and "logic"

>in discussing the obvious flaws and contradictions in
>scripture
>

And when you frame a conversation in this matter there is no room for actual conversation. So, if you have tried to talk to a pastor as you claim, then why would they talk with you. You pretty much closed the door for your own objectivity.

>i guess maybe religious studies professor or somebody would be
>better for that lol.
>

There's no difference, because most of my seminary professors were clergy and we talked about all kinds of theory.



>i've never come across one who is strong enough in their faith
>to venture deep into this kind of conversation without
>shutting the door of "belief" and "faith" on the room of
>"facts" and "logic"
>
>

Maybe, they just chose to not engage you further because of your actions or attitude or they way your frame questions. I Don't Know..


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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

>Maybe, they just chose to not engage you further because of
>your actions or attitude or they way your frame questions. I
>Don't Know..
>

pretty par for the course all around, im working on it but still feel a lot of the time like people are intimidated by my ideas idk, that's probably ego talking

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>.
>.
>"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be
>kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

>>Maybe, they just chose to not engage you further because of
>>your actions or attitude or they way your frame questions. I
>>Don't Know..
>>
>
>pretty par for the course all around, im working on it but
>still feel a lot of the time like people are intimidated by my
>ideas idk, that's probably ego talking


Before I was a Christian, I use to give Christians the business. I had a preconceived agenda and idea about the topics and responses. I did it because I had very strong dislike for Christianity and it's tenets. Most of what I knew was correct, but how i framed the conversations left no open doors for honest and true dialog, learning, or understanding. I was closed minded and I felt like I could rebuttal everything without actually trying to understand the logic of the matter.

But after I became a Christian, my eyes and mind were opened to another perspective. This is way i'm so patient with folks around here that really have honest questions and I side step the rest of those who are being butts.

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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

My pastor is an amazing man. Love him to death from having maintained an almost 30 year relationship as a Kappa man. He was notorious back in the day for slaying the ladies, but now is a well grounded, transparent man of Christ, and I love him for that. He's as real as it gets and admits his, and mans shortcomings, but holds true in the belief of God as central to his sermons on Sunday. Church is casual, but the message is as good as it gets.

Oh you meant "a pastor" not "al pastor!"