www.newrepublic.com/article/121550/cornel-wests-rise-fall-our-most-exciting-black-scholar-ghost


Admittedly, I Colin Powell'd this. But damn...they got beef?
Why would someone write a targeted essay like this?
He basically spent 5000 words saying Cornel ain't shit since 'Race Matters'.

Cornel fucking Dyson's wife or something?

actually I have no idea why and I haven't read it yet, but this was the first thing that came to mind

and i'm only like 3 paragraphs in. i can only imagine that it gets worse from there.

.

today

the collective academic community of color shook our heads in disgust

though i will

but i don't think i will be posting it
sounds like dirty laundry
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

You can have love and respect for someone yet still disagree with some of the things they've said and done. My issue is Cornel makes his disagreements with the President personal, many of his comments about Pres Obama are nothing more than grade school level name calling.

At times he talks more shit about the President than those fools at faux news.. SMH

Cornel is under the delusion that he is the 2nd coming of Frederick Douglass.. I still have a lot of respect for West and what he has done though the man has some serious issues as of late, acts as if he has lost his mind.


Dyson isn't shitting on West, Cornel has been shitting on himself for years with regards to President Obama. It all started with Tavis's black summit conference. West also seems to have terribly simplistic view of politics

His calling Melissa Harris-Perry and "fake and a fraud" GTFOH!!

This piece is a gut punch intervention which Cornel West sorely needs... shame it had to be done at all. Cornel West's ego mania is a helluva drug!

>You can have love and respect for someone yet still disagree
>with some of the things they've said and done. My issue is
>Cornel makes his disagreements with the President personal,
>many of his comments about Pres Obama are nothing more than
>grade school level name calling.
>
>At times he talks more shit about the President than those
>fools at faux news.. SMH
>
>Cornel is under the delusion that he is the 2nd coming of
>Frederick Douglass.. I still have a lot of respect for West
>and what he has done though the man has some serious issues as
>of late, acts as if he has lost his mind.
>
>
>Dyson isn't shitting on West, Cornel has been shitting on
>himself for years with regards to President Obama. It all
>started with Tavis's black summit conference. West also seems
>to have terribly simplistic view of politics


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

how can a mufucka who is the very definition of an empty suit "scholar" who misquotes rappers as a shtick say SHIT about anyone's publishing output?

F
O
H

Also, funny how in all that shit in the article, he doesn't refute any of the key points of west's critique of obama: he gives black america the stiff arm, politically, while milking our support.

Dyson need to be shoe beat for this bullshit

obviously we aren't talking about the piece if dyson doesn't write it but it would be a logical fallacy to throw out the argument just because of who is saying it. To be fair, Dyson does have books (not very good books, but still semi-scholarly books) that have come out in the last decade without the aid of co-writers.

Dyson's claim isn't that Cornel's politics are wrong or that there isn't room to critique obama from the left. It's that we should not confuse West's attacks on Obama and Obama supporters like Dyson and MHP as coming from a serious intellectual place (or a prophetic place for that matter).

I think it's an important challenge to West's place as a preeminent public intellectual and one we should be willing to debate.

that's funny, cuz that's what many people have been saying about the contention that West's critiques of Obama come from a place of personal offense.

I don't give a fuck if they do or don't; the substance of his points are very very very valid.

Also, as someone who's read almost every cornel west book, I actually give him props for trying to make a transition from HARD academic to social/pop (aka RELEVANT) political critic. Cuz in 2015 nobody gives a flying fuck about Kant's Critique of Judgement.

Dyson's published more books recently, but so. the. fuck. what? They are nowhere near the depth of thought of west's work in the 90s. And I say this as someone who wasn't necessarily a fan of west's work in that time

And for dyson to write this fuckshit in the new republic of all places?

Fuck that dude

.

>And for dyson to write this fuckshit in the new republic of
>all places?

im a bit ignorant on this

publishing a piece in an online journal
that has been filled with shitty thinkers
accusing a pretty accomplished thinker of
being a shitty thinker is fucking ridiculous.

And I don't even ride for west like that, but the fact that this bullshit even got published, much less as a lead piece (!) is waaaaaay too negro battle royale for me.

tic did a pretty good take down a couple months back
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/the-new-republic-an-appreciation/383561/

West doesn't necessarily have to use GRE words oor make references to the pragmatic tradition and nineteenth-century Russian literature. If he is going to be a public intellectual, we do have to judge him on the quality of his arguments.

When someone says your work is like “a cover version of a hit performed better by other singers—Barbara Ehrenreich, Joseph Stiglitz, and William Julius Wilson, to name a few,” that's serious.

More seriously, if dude is draping himself in the cloak of the "black prophetic tradition" and we can say wait a minute, you are distorting king and defining prophet however you see fit, we have a major problem.

I agree tnr has a pretty awful track record on black politics but it's one of only 3-4 publications that would have published a piece of this length.

Well before the Obama experience. West is more of a contemporary of those cats mentioned. Shit, there was a time in the late 80s/early 90s that he and william julius wilson were getting roasted in certain black circles for their largely conservative views on race in America. To say he's cribbing ideas from those folks is factually wrong, and to imply that West is anything less than an actual scholar is a fucking lie.

West has, in fact, moved to the left of where he was, and his REAL big change in political perspective happened under CLINTON, not Obama.
From the mid-nineties to now, West has been pretty consistent in his critiques of the American political system, and NONE of those critiques are untrue.

American political will is still dictated by corporate interests
the two party system is hugely problematic
the democratic party takes black people for granted,
America is a war machine
poverty is ignored or exploited

This doesn't change when Obama gets elected.

Dyson needs a serious bitch slapping.

And i ain't even a fan of west like that

Cause who reads all that wordy obtuse shit?

I mean really.

Both of these cats could be using their influence to rally around E. Ethelbert Miller, whose position was (INEXPLICABLY) cut at Howard...they could be online voicing support to get him reinstated...

for that matter. Not gonna happen

when he was fired from Temple. He came out to a rally where he publicly called out Asante and Temple admin. I'm not sure what he's done since then though.

not sure dyson is the best candidate for this,
but man, its sorely needed.

and yes, there are much more influential black scholars out there
i think west started out with potential
(even though for me race matters wasnt the seminal piece many make it out to be)
but he's been riding on the fumes of his college speaking tours and inflammatory comments
against anyone who dares to disagree with him

and i'd add paula giddings to the list dyson put up.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

done backfired and wounded him a bit.

now i respect Dyson for his words, etc.. however not a good look at all because these cats are all cut from the same cloth and one can't wound another without it all affecting them all.

its not a good look at all.

wish they could handle this amongest themselves and not where it pits one against the other.

Brothers gotta work it ,

MED goes all the way in but Cornell has been calling him, Melissa and Sharpton all types of Uncle Toms and sellouts for almost 4 years now. How is your graduate adviser and mentor going to do you like that in public?

The tone is harsh but the criticism is all above the belt. West hasn't produced any real scholarship in over two decades and his whole prophetic tradition act is hypocritical at best, and dangerously delusional and anti-intellectual at worst.

During the nineties he was probably as important as anyone in the academy with regards to talking about the importance of blackness in the world of cultural studies and was seen as the heir apparent to Stuart Hall. Making Malcolm is still a pretty fantastic book. Even as goofy as his hip hop stuff is, he was at the frontline of folks in the academy saying that it could be the site of serious academic inquiry.

A lot of his books over the past decade have been on some straight up money grab shit but i respect that as a public intellectual he is still engaging with the written word as opposed to just being a talking head on cable news.

what pfff have you been smoking

DG Kelley the only one who comes close to claiming that.

One has to do actual research and base their objects of studies on thing the working class socialist left actually gives a shit about. Most of MED's work is on public figures or feed into the 90s "culture wars" debates.

Dyson is an intellectual opportunist with mediocre books

>DG Kelley the only one who comes close to claiming that.
>
>One has to do actual research and base their objects of
>studies on thing the working class socialist left actually
>gives a shit about. Most of MED's work is on public figures or
>feed into the 90s "culture wars" debates.

A lot of scholars coming out of the labor history/working class tradition stopped messing with Robin Kelley when he went from his first book Hammer and Hoe to the more postmodern/cultural studies stuff like Freedom Dreams and Yo Mama's Dysfunktional.

Some of that cultural studies stuff is a bit too esoteric and ungrounded for my taste but if you take it seriously, that black culture had to be understood on its own terms (and not just subsumed into debates about a universal working class), Dyson was doing it as well as anyone in the nineties.

DG Kelley made his name with Freedom Dreams and Dysfunktional, shit the latter showed most of those simpletons how to rock those debates

and no Dyson's books did not do any of that supposed "esoteric and underground" shit in the 90s well

>

I'm 60-65% done and amazed at how much left there is.
Dyson's criticisms are real and very, very valid. But there is a lot of venom in here as well that feels... just mean.

it also skims over the (very valid imo) critiques of obama but that's another story.

so im not mad at all

still deciding whether to read

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

its very critical, goes on a bit too long
but has some interesting insights

to a fault
but just short of mean
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

https://youtu.be/JX32uZR92y8

names, but its not okay to criticize west?
its a bit disingenous for boykins to claim that he hates to see white media pitting black folks against each other
when he has said nothing about cornell calling people coons, frauds, liars, on the plantation, questioning their blackness, claiming they sold out .... on white media platforms (cnn, msnbc fox, you name it)
wtf is this?

he should go back to talking about how empire 'emasculates black men'

shit.

he basically admitted he had no idea what the motivation was behind the piece, then went on a diatribe about white media pitting blacks against each other.

if you don't know, why are you even talking?
particularly when he is in a direct position to find out by just asking these guys he is supposedly close with.

“Black people once put a premium on serving the community, lifting others, and finding joy in empowering others,” he wrote. “Black people once had a strong prophetic tradition of lifting every voice.” Today, however, “Black people have succumbed to individualistic projects in pursuit of wealth, health, and status. ... engage in the petty practice of chasing dollars.”

http://thoughtsoninternetmarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Cornel-West.jpg

quite in keeping with his politics of conversion

.

...it's tough to separate the criticism from him. Much of what MED wrote about CW could have been applied to MED. Ask yourself, what has MED contributed to the academic space as far as volume work -- especially subjects that haven't already been done.

It's fair to say CW peaked early and relied far too much on histrionics and sensationalism to make himself a public figure while neglecting his duties as a public intellectual. But I think MED's aiming squarely on CW's output and celebrity status feels cheap since he tows the same line albeit with his uncomfortable reliance on Hip-Hop quotes.

This was an inside conversation that everyone, including MED and TNR, knew would get clicks and shares. I was so goddamn absorbed in this piece, I didn't even watch GOT last night.

first of all, this is clearly divide & conquer

but whatever

if MED point is cornel hasnt published anything of merit since race matters, so the fuck what. i mean who has even read that shit?

but yes as a academic matter, from which cornel derives his public image...having not published since the 90s isnt a good look.

now how does that take away from Cornels larger point, which is that this administration has for the majority of its tenure in power been pro war, anti working class? how can that be denied?

the message! fuck the messenger


does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

The preeminent black public intellectual?
--nah, not really if he's not engaging the world of ideas seriously.

The last defender of the black prophetic tradition (a la MLK)?
--Only if we define prophet on CW's terms, which conveniently misunderstands King and lets West escape accountability to a religious community.

A progressive critic of Obama's centrism and antiblack policies?
--ok, but we have a lot of those.

What at this point gives him the intellectual or moral high ground to call his critics sellouts and liars?

>A progressive critic of Obama's centrism and antiblack
>policies?
>--ok, but we have a lot of those.

name another Black progressive critic of Obamas centrism and anti poverty/working class/Black policies

Tavis Smiley. and thats it.

ill wait.

Jelani Cobb
Mychal Denzel Smith
Frank Wilderson

West and Smiley are loud and have a platform but they don't have any fresh ideas and we are in real danger if we put them at forefront of the black progressive charge.

Dismissing Cornell's consistency and platform is like saying someone can't be a good athlete, they are too fast

None of the figures you mentioned has the experience or platform of tavis or Cornell

I wouldn't put either if them at the forefront of anything but the bottom line is there was literally no one in the public eye critiquing BHO from a poor Black POV. They have been literally pilloried for behaving exactly as they would have if Barry was white. That is equality. Had they not held firm and pushed like they did we wouldn't be seeing this left turn by all democrats. They are american hero's

...if they aint been good in years.

The platform/power is because we put too much stock in the idea of the HNIC and are still enamored with the ghost of the super smart charismatic guy with the fro who used to be on cable news in the 90s.

That mindset means we miss out on people with fresh ideas who might be moving the movement forward.

I would argue that it was the grassroots stuff like Dream Defenders, #blacklivesmatter, Black Youth Project, and the consciousness raising stuff on tumblr/twitter that has held obama's feet to the fire. Intellectually, those folks are borrowing from black cultural studies scholars like Robin Kelley, TNC, the crunk feminist collective, not West.

and aren't up on new scholarship

he didn't move goalposts at all

take your L

.

old but relevant.
especially in its critique
but really, nothing much different from dyson's point


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/this-town-deserves-a-better-class-of-critic/239437/

This Town Deserves a Better Class of Critic

TA-NEHISI COATESMAY 25 2011, 11:25 AM ET

Colbert King weighs in on Cornel West's barrage, Stanley Crouch gets his licks in, and Adam notes that Crouch has (thankfully) changed his tune.


Meanwhile Eddie S. Glaude summons up a rhetorical army and, with considerable aplomb, plows through an enemy battalion of strawmen:

'"Recently, Cornel West offered a strident critique of President Obama's relative silence on this matter. For him, the president has failed to address substantively the conditions of the poor and the most vulnerable in our society.
Instead, West maintains, Obama has been too concerned with appeasing the robber barons on Wall Street. Many took offense, not only with the personal nature of the criticism but also with the fact that West dared to criticize the president at all.
Some African Americans hold the view that this only contributes to right-wing attacks against Obama, making him vulnerable in 2012. Others believe that such criticisms betray an unreasonable expectation that Obama owes something to the black community because he is the first black president -- a troublesome black identity politics, they might say.
Worries about Democrats closing ranks for an upcoming election seem, to me, at least, to be a perennial (and uninteresting) concern. I am more interested in the underlying anxiety about black people criticizing Obama. It is as if we are being told to keep our mouths shut."



And I am more interested in who--specifically--took offense "with the fact that West dared to criticize the president at all." Glaude never bothers to name these critics, preferring to debate his own paraphrasing. I share Glaude's faith that there are black people out there, somewhere, who do believe Obama shouldn't be criticized. I just think it'd be nice if he'd name them and quote their actual arguments.

It also would be nice if Glaude quoted Cornel West's actual arguments. To be clear, their number include:

--That Obama is a "black mascot" and a"black puppet" for Wall street and corporate America.

--That Obama, whom West supported as a candidate to be Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful military in the world, who throughout his candidacy repeatedly said he would kill Bin Laden if given the chance, has lately mutated into the proud "head of the American killing machine."

--That West, a self-dubbed advocate of working people, is entitled to three inauguration tickets for every one ticket dispensed to mere baggage-handlers.

--That West is an independent "free black man" who strikes terror in the heart of the rootless, deracinated, and culturally white Obama.

--That Obama, who for decades has made a home on Chicago's South Side, "feels most comfortable with upper middle-class white and Jewish men," as opposed to West who through considerable time spent studying and teaching in the Ivy League has acquired the powers of blackness denominated in the previous point.

I debated Glaude on twitter when this story initially broke. His defense at the time held that the worst aspects of West's tone "shouldn't detract from his criticism of Obama's policy choices." But I have searched West's argument repeatedly, and found only thin evidence of such criticism. West is disappointed with the tapping of Geithner and Summers. He also thinks it would be a good idea for Michelle Obama to abandon her childhood obesity campaign and tour America's prisons.

But there is nothing in West's volley about how the lack of public option will ultimately hurt poor black people. There no real attempt to argue that the Dodd-Frank won't actually end the problem of too big too fail. There's no detailed critique of how Obama's willingness to see Planned Parenthood defunded in local Washington D.C. ultimately hurts black women. There are no hot words for an Obama-led Democratic Party failing to deliver congressional representation to Washington, D.C. despite holding the House, Senate and the presidency. There is no serious assessment of the Office of Urban Policy.

In sum, there isn't much policy anywhere in West's article or in Glaude's defense. But even if there were substance beneath West's essentialist dogma, this fact would not make it excusable. Should I find a Latino man blocking my way as I walk down the street, it would take some hubris to insist that the "Spic get out of my way." But it would take much more for me to, while in the midst of picking my teeth, to insist that, as a matter of fact, the Spic really was blocking the sidewalk. Dinesh D'souza does not get to call Obama a Kenyan anti-colonialist, and then protest that we missed the deeper aspects of his argument.

And this is really the point. In the matter at hand, there is no real difference between the tribalism offered by D'Souza and his ilk, and the tribalism offered by West and his defenders. There is no real difference between Tea Partiers who insist that NAACP are the actual racists, and those who believe Obama is a "black mascot" damning the influence of identity politics. There is no real difference between those who push their agenda by implying that Obama isn't really American, and those who push their agenda by implying that Obama isn't really black.

Both are afflicted with a species of blindness, and intellectual sloth. Understanding and debating actual policy is hard. Enumerating perceived slights and name-calling, and dubbing it a black agenda, is not.

>but really, nothing much different from dyson's point



i read that when it came out
haven't read this piece yet

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

It's OBVIOUS that West's ire at Obama is personal and nothing more. At least Tavis TRIES to make some kind of rational defense for his hurt fee fees.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

>first of all, this is clearly divide & conquer

Perhaps.
>
>but whatever
>
>if MED point is cornel hasnt published anything of merit since
>race matters, so the fuck what. i mean who has even read that
>shit?
>
>but yes as a academic matter, from which cornel derives his
>public image...having not published since the 90s isnt a good
>look.
>
>now how does that take away from Cornels larger point, which
>is that this administration has for the majority of its tenure
>in power been pro war, anti working class? how can that be
>denied?

BHO has ended TWO wars, prevented 3 (Syriah, Iran, & Libya) Also, anti-working class? How? You do realize he's had a stalwart republican opposition that wouldn't have let him do ANYTHING for the working poor, right?

Nah, B - you're just wrong.
>
>the message! fuck the messenger
>
>
>does it really matter?
>
>wonder what bin's doing?
>http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

every subject ass".

Muhphucka has been in every documentary from Tupac to Christian Laetner.


I HATE him.

FUCK THIS DUDE

D

don't personally know dude--but he's one of the only people that I want to spit on if I see him.


The moment I see him on something, any credibility that something once had disappears the moment that he appears.

I was all in to that Christian Laettner 30 for 30 doc---until Dyson chimed in.

and disses to substitute for points and ideas.

and Harris-Perry and some other folks (Sharpton?)
basically saying their allegiance to Obama to get in his inner circle is on some sell out stuff

I have a strange feeling he won't let it go even after he's left the office
If dude can't change his style of dress*, he most certainly won't change his opinions.

*imagining a Fred Flintstone closet

West has levied at Dyson and others...

"and Skip Gates murdered you on your own shit..."

mofos spittin complex, difficult-to-understand-without-a-dictionary words
filled with verbose loquacious and tedious nouns and verbs
all arguing shit no one else understands or cares about


i'd be all over it

>
>mofos spittin complex,
>difficult-to-understand-without-a-dictionary words
>filled with verbose loquacious and tedious nouns and verbs
>all arguing shit no one else understands or cares about
>
>
>i'd be all over it
>

made me want to read the article for potential follow up

got me listening to BIG What is beef
lol

oh man i'm imagining MHP coming in like roxanne's revenge
(they have beef too)

this just became fun
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

.

oddly this convinces me TO read


when was the last time we had a division and intellectual scuff up like this?

in that view i may well read
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

.

This was his "YOU'RE ALL WELCOME!!!! YOU'RE ALL WELCOME!!!!" moment

during this obama era
im not talking about his inflammatory mouthing off
but articles that you think offer a critique of the policy issues he's against
and that would convince someone of his legitimacy
(so far all i find are 'talking points')

Im just curious to know if there's something i am missing
because everytime west comes up, im often really surprised by the reactions

I mean, he's literally written a book on it, lol:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0807003522/?tag=lifsrhy-20


he's pretty much in line with every other anti- neoliberalist thinker around, including Chomsky, Klein, Reed, etc. I also think that it's interesting that he's done more speaking on his issues with Obama, than writing about them. Kind of clever and appropriate, IMO, with the changes in how we consume data.

Also, West's vehemence in his critique of Obama makes even more sense when you put Obama's election in its historical context.

Obama followed Bush II, probably THE most despised president we'll see in our lifetimes. He had a TON of political goodwill and control of congress for two years...and promptly became black clinton.

But, here:

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/24/cornel_west_he_posed_as_a_progressive_and_turned_out_to_be_counterfeit_we_ended_up_with_a_wall_street_presidency_a_drone_presidency/

https://soundcloud.com/search?q=cornel%20west

http://www.alternet.org/cornel-wests-8-most-eye-opening-critiques-barack-obamas-presidency



None of this critique is incorrect, or even really controversial, IMO. It's how a demographic should demand concessions for its vote.

that book you linked apparently is about ;
"a fresh perspective on six revolutionary African American leaders: Frederick Douglass, W. E. B. Du Bois, Martin Luther King Jr., Ella Baker, Malcolm X, and Ida B. Wells."

im not sure this ties in with what im looking for.
aaprently only the last chapter deals with whether or not obama follows in this prophetic tradition?
that doesnt sound like it will inform me of what exactly cornel's critique of obama;s policies are
the article on salon is actually an embarassing read
nothing concrete
i mean... seriously?

on clinton; she’s got that strange smile that somehow titillates liberals and neo-liberals and scares Republicans.

"He poses, he postures like he’s so radical. But he is a cheerleader for the Obama administration

"he’s just another neoliberal centrist with a smile and with a nice rhetorical flair

we ended up with a brown-faced Clinton

It’s like you’re looking for John Coltrane and you get Kenny G in brown skin

etc etc.
this is school yard beefing
nothing id expect from someone of this caliber

and he should be soundly berated for this,

Needless to say, the presence of his brilliant and charismatic wife, Michelle—a descendent of enslaved and Jim-Crowed people, unlike himself—even more deeply legitimizes his symbolic status, a status that easily substitutes for substantial achievement."

wtf?

id wager half of what obama did in chicago far exceeds any concrete thing west has done
im still waiting for the concrete stuff that he has done

a pretty good summation (pulled from typing "cornel West Critiques Obama"in google) is in the links provided

Now, if you want me to show you how a non-elected officials has made more policy decisions than a former congressman, now president? That's just ridiculous.

Interesting how the whole criticism of Obama's neo-liberalism is ignored, tho, lol

So, lemme ask this: are john oliver's and jon stewart's satirical takes on Obama's policy decision "appropriate"? How about Chomsky? Julian Assange? Eric Snowden?

Cuz essentially, they and West are saying MUCH of the same things.

EDIT:

and for real tho, you pulled those quotes form the salon article instead of:

Eric Holder won’t touch the Wall Street executives; they’re his friends. He might charge them some money. They want to celebrate. This money is just a tax write-off for these people. There’s no accountability. No answerability. No responsibility that these people have to take at all. The same is true with the Robert Rubin crowd. Obama comes in, he’s got all this populist rhetoric which is wonderful, progressive populist rhetoric which we needed badly. What does he do, goes straight to the Robert Rubin crowd and here comes Larry Summers, here comes Tim Geithner, we can go on and on and on, and he allows them to run things. You see it in the Suskind book, The Confidence Men. These guys are running things, and these are neoliberal, deregulating free marketeers—and poverty is not even an afterthought for them.

OR:

That his success has been predicated on finding that middle ground. “We’re not black. We’re not white. We’re not rich. We’re not poor. There’s no classes in America. We are all Americans. We’re the American family.” He invoked the American family last week. It’s a lie, brother. You’ve got to be able to tell the truth to the American people. We’re not a family. We’re a people. We’re a nation. And a nation always has divisions. You have to be able to speak to those divisions in such a way that, like FDR, like Lincoln, you’re able to somehow pull out the best of who we are, given the divisions. You don’t try to act as if we have no divisions and we’re just an American family, with the poor getting treated in disgraceful ways and the rich walking off sipping tea, with no accountability at all, and your foreign policy is running amok with Israelis committing war crimes against precious Palestinians and you won’t say a mumbling word about the Palestinian children.



But yeah, its about obama not being coltrane.

Cmon, man

all i see is west excoriating obama
and say well he aint did this or that or the other
thats not a critique
thats not even a discussion on policy
and most of it is not worthy of the man he claims he is (or tries to portray himself as)
and this is the reason i feel as though maybe im missing something
cause all the hits i get, are talking points and vitriol


>a pretty good summation (pulled from typing "cornel West
>Critiques Obama"in google) is in the links provided

these are not critiques. this is condemnation and censure.
there's a difference

>Now, if you want me to show you how a non-elected officials
>has made more policy decisions than a former congressman, now
>president? That's just ridiculous.

i brought up chicago because that was when obama was a non-elected official doing things
to help the same people west is talking about

and i would actually like to see a more nuanced debate on whether or not
his presidency has been worse for black people economically, as has been claimed
because honestly i dont know
but west tavis et al are making this into a personal tirade
that takes away from a constructive discussion on this issue

>Interesting how the whole criticism of Obama's neo-liberalism
>is ignored, tho, lol

give some examples of this.

>So, lemme ask this: are john oliver's and jon stewart's
>satirical takes on Obama's policy decision "appropriate"? How
>about Chomsky? Julian Assange? Eric Snowden?

how is this relevant to this particular discussion?
we are talking west obama dyson
we gonna just pull out all sorts of names out there? this is irrelevant to what im asking.

Cuz saying "he ain't do this or that"

when "he" is the fucking president
and "this or that" includes policy decisions ranging from drone warfare to extended bailout funds to ignoring black political issues to falling aaaaaaaalllllll the way back on poverty issues seems like, you know, political critique.

And its sure as FUCK is political discussion

Those other people matter because they are using modern media to make many of the same critiques and raising awareness about political issues that our electoral body willfully ignores. Are the critiques appropriate coming from their spaces and not west's? If so, why?

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

its a critique of a persons critique of (supposed) others critique of Cornel West's critique of Obama.

That's navel-gazing of an order I give not a damn about.

That's silly shit.

And for anyone to say that they can't find any actual critique of Obama from west that isn't a personal attack is just factually not true.

More:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1401940633/?tag=lifsrhy-20

On poverty:

https://soundcloud.com/democracynow/tavis-smiley-cornel-west-on

On drones, and the relationship between wall street and militarism:
http://www.c-span.org/video/?316282-1/activists-examine-drones-around-globe

On poverty, form 97(!) not about Obama at all...but completely consistent with everything he says now:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/race/interviews/west.html

Y'all tripping, hard.

>That's silly shit.

with regards to his continued tantrums about Obama
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>And for anyone to say that they can't find any actual critique
>of Obama from west that isn't a personal attack is just
>factually not true.

im trying to figure out west's stance
the issue here isnt that west shouldnt criticize obama
or that no one should
the issue here is that what he does is what i see as a personal attack against the man
nothing to do with his policies
yes, he peppers his words with, talking points here or there
but theres nothing of substance
im waiting to hear something of substance from west
he hates so many policies but cannot articulate what is wrong with them
or their impact on black people beyond saying, this is wrong, not enough, do better?
come on

as ta nehisi put it, we deserve a better class of critic

or you just didn't bother reading / clicking the links Kayru posted

i've read those before
they fall far short of anything that can be considered rational
or even criticsm or even well thought out.
these are talking points, platitudes and vitriol
which is why im asking where are these articles of critical cornel?

if these dont exist then y'all are proving dyson's point
this man is more interested publicity than in scholarship


which its his right to do, but then lets stop pretending

and as ta nehisi says, we deserve a better class of critic

it shouldnt be this hard to find an opinion piece from a scholar

even if its in film format

its ok.

You don't want to read it, or hear it, unless there is something praising Obama in it. There is LITERALLY a soundcloud link with hours of speech and analysis on everything from poverty to drones to the housing crisis to police brutality.

FOH

STILL havent answered why the critiques that West give are somehow of a lesser order than other, whiter, leftist.

And that Dyson article is a slice of musky ass, intellectually and stylistically

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/in-defense-of-obama-20141008

here's the only response i find

http://on.aol.com/video/cornel-west--krugman-s-my-dear-brother--but-he-s-wrong-518453213

it doesnt really touch on what is the issue with the article.
to say 'he didnt push enough (what is enough??)
he's not done enough for homeowners (what is enough? does the making homes affordable program not count?)

as i said before, this is all rhetoric
i expect better

evidence of dude not having any legit critique of Obama?

and never mind in that interview he somewhat accurately calls out the red herring in krugman's piece.

And ironically, Krugman makes a LOT of the same critiques in that piece that West, Smiley, Chomsky, and anybody who's been paying attention makes about post-reagan american policy.

and that doesnt count as a response.

maybe we have different standards, but i do expect more of scholars
in this regards.... im still waiting for a meaningful engagement

>and never mind in that interview he somewhat accurately calls
>out the red herring in krugman's piece.

by saying, not enough? really?
thats adequate?

>And ironically, Krugman makes a LOT of the same critiques in
>that piece that West, Smiley, Chomsky, and anybody who's been
>paying attention makes about post-reagan american policy.

yea, i didnt get this.
he does state that there are things that couldve been done differently
and he does say what those are
but he also talks about things that while not perfect do have some merit
that is what i call a criticism/critique.

as i said before, maybe we have a different understanding
what i have seen is disappointing so far

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Based off this meme:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=230142&d=1124913073

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

This shit was like 3x as long as it should have been.

With that whole 'prophet' section, lol

.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

I'm seriously trying to be more positive in my daily life but shit this nigga is pulling me back in

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

The view of the thread seems to be that both CW and MED are hacks.
So... who are our 'legit' scholars?

Michelle Alexander
Ta Heisi Coates
Robin DG Kelley

Who else?

bell hooks?
Joy DeGruy?

Joy James
Zandria Robinson
Jared Sexton
Frank Wilderson
Fred Moten
Saidiya Hartman
Alexis Pauline Gumbs
Joy Degruy
Mark Anthony Neal
Tavia Nyong'o

My co-workers had lunch with her last year... I skipped it. But that's what they reported back to me.

nm

I had to consult my co-workers who were there.
She basically said that homosexuality is wrong. Certain holes are for certain things.

Still archaic and problematic views that draw on heteronormative inspirations but not quite as I remembered it being.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/20/cornel-west-michael-eric-dyson-feud-petty-black-people-dying

The Cornel West-Michael Eric Dyson feud is petty. Black people are dying in the streets

Shortly before the last presidential election, Columbia political science professor, Fred Harris, bemoaned in an essay: “Were Harold Cruse, the author of the unsparing 1967 book The Crisis of the Negro Intellectual, still alive, he would despair at the state of black intellectual life.”

Or as Princeton professor Eddie Glaude told him: “Too many black intellectuals have given up the hard work of thinking carefully in public about the crisis facing black America. We have either become cheerleaders for President Obama or self-serving pundits.”

As if on cue, Michael Eric Dyson, of Georgetown University, published a searing take-down of Cornel West, formerly of Harvard and Princeton and now at New York’s Theological Seminary, in The New Republic on Sunday bemoaning West’s “dramatic plummet from his perch as a world-class intellectual”.

The long-running feud between the two academics has sprawled across the academe and into the public sphere in much the same way as Hugh Grant and Colin Firth’s fight scene in Bridget Jones’ Diary flails through the streets of London – uncoordinated, undisciplined, inept, deeply personal and utterly inconsequential. One can only hope that this marks the end of this tiresome exchange; given the size of the egos involved one can only assume it won’t.

The source of this argument is the complicated relationship between the black American intelligentsia and the Obama administration. West, first skeptical, then supportive, and then harshly critical, has delivered a series of, at times, race-based ad-hominem attacks on Obama. He has branded the president a “Rockefeller Republican in blackface”; a “brown-faced Clinton”; and a “neoliberal opportunist.”

“I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of free black men,” West once said. “It’s understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man with black skin.”

Dyson, on the other hand, has offered more critical support. “It’s worth noting that the president’s actions were in keeping with the demands of his profession,” he writes in The New Republic essay. “Like most recent Democratic politicians, Obama nodded in a progressive direction while campaigning but toed a more centrist line when it came time to govern.” Dyson, notably, offers no comment on whether he supports this shift, recognising it merely as a fait accompli.

Many of these concerns about the Obama presidency are worth taking up. The issue itself is crucial, intelligent discussion is long overdue and the consequent debate could be vital.

Obama’s ascent coincided with a widening in the racial discrepancy between black and white America in wealth, a deepening of school segregation and he has presided over a massive resurgence of black activism around police shootings. So the question of how the election of a black president has improved the lot of black Americans in this moment? What can he do? What should he do? What should be demanded of him? On what grounds should he be defended? These are critical matters for which the black intelligentsia should be uniquely suited and adequately prepared.

Sadly, this is not the debate that Dyson wanted to have with his essay. For, while this may have been the root of their conflict, their argument has not grown in stature but withered in acuity. Dyson’s lengthy essay is not about the record of the Obama administration, foreign policy, Black Lives Matter, the economic crisis, incarceration, the wealth gap, or any of the urgent political issues that relate to the black America. It is about West.

It questions his credentials as a self-proclaimed prophet (Dyson says he has none), his intellectual productivity (too low) and his desire to be in the limelight (too high). He berates West as a man who “inveighs, stampedes, and kvetches.” It’s a relentless, and at times, forensic demolition. But to what end? Is West the enemy? And if so of what?

My point here is not to take sides. West is more than capable of speaking for himself and has been happy to land his own blows. “I love Brother Mike Dyson,” West once said. “But we’re living in a society where everybody is up for sale. Everything is up for sale. And he and Brother Sharpton and Sister Melissa and others, they have sold their souls for a mess of Obama pottage.”

The circular confrontation is of such an insular nature there are no sides to take. There are serious points that might be made about the plight of the celebrity academic – though those could relate to the author of The New Republic piece just as easily as the subject – but they are not pursued on their merits. There are also important arguments about the intellectual and his or her relationship to the polity. In the debris of Dyson’s demolition, one may find a broader critique that West’s “decline” is, in no small part, due to his refusal to embrace the symbolism of Obama’s presidency and tone down the critiques of its substance. But you’ll have to sift through the personal rancor to find them.

At the best of times this would be an internal dispute between two well-paid tenured professors that barely resonated beyond the academe and made precious little impact within it. But these are not the best of times. Black people are being shot dead in the street almost daily by trigger-happy cops and two ostensibly smart men, who have both produced excellent work and who pride themselves on being engaged academics responsive to the needs of the black community, are firing broadsides at each other.

The role of the public intellectual is to raise the level of public conversation so that it might better grapple with the complex issues of the day; Dyson’s essay further lowers it to the point of irrelevance. One can only hope they now bury it and direct their considerable polemical abilities at more worthy targets.

>http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/20/cornel-west-michael-eric-dyson-feud-petty-black-people-dying
>
>The Cornel West-Michael Eric Dyson feud is petty. Black people
>are dying in the streets
>
>Shortly before the last presidential election, Columbia
>political science professor, Fred Harris, bemoaned in an
>essay: “Were Harold Cruse, the author of the unsparing 1967
>book The Crisis of the Negro Intellectual, still alive, he
>would despair at the state of black intellectual life.”
>
>Or as Princeton professor Eddie Glaude told him: “Too many
>black intellectuals have given up the hard work of thinking
>carefully in public about the crisis facing black America. We
>have either become cheerleaders for President Obama or
>self-serving pundits.”
>
>As if on cue, Michael Eric Dyson, of Georgetown University,
>published a searing take-down of Cornel West, formerly of
>Harvard and Princeton and now at New York’s Theological
>Seminary, in The New Republic on Sunday bemoaning West’s
>“dramatic plummet from his perch as a world-class
>intellectual”.
>
>The long-running feud between the two academics has sprawled
>across the academe and into the public sphere in much the same
>way as Hugh Grant and Colin Firth’s fight scene in Bridget
>Jones’ Diary flails through the streets of London –
>uncoordinated, undisciplined, inept, deeply personal and
>utterly inconsequential. One can only hope that this marks the
>end of this tiresome exchange; given the size of the egos
>involved one can only assume it won’t.
>
>The source of this argument is the complicated relationship
>between the black American intelligentsia and the Obama
>administration. West, first skeptical, then supportive, and
>then harshly critical, has delivered a series of, at times,
>race-based ad-hominem attacks on Obama. He has branded the
>president a “Rockefeller Republican in blackface”; a
>“brown-faced Clinton”; and a “neoliberal
>opportunist.”
>
>“I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of
>free black men,” West once said. “It’s understandable.
>As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant
>African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man
>with black skin.”
>
>Dyson, on the other hand, has offered more critical support.
>“It’s worth noting that the president’s actions were in
>keeping with the demands of his profession,” he writes in
>The New Republic essay. “Like most recent Democratic
>politicians, Obama nodded in a progressive direction while
>campaigning but toed a more centrist line when it came time to
>govern.” Dyson, notably, offers no comment on whether he
>supports this shift, recognising it merely as a fait
>accompli.
>
>Many of these concerns about the Obama presidency are worth
>taking up. The issue itself is crucial, intelligent discussion
>is long overdue and the consequent debate could be vital.
>
>Obama’s ascent coincided with a widening in the racial
>discrepancy between black and white America in wealth, a
>deepening of school segregation and he has presided over a
>massive resurgence of black activism around police shootings.
>So the question of how the election of a black president has
>improved the lot of black Americans in this moment? What can
>he do? What should he do? What should be demanded of him? On
>what grounds should he be defended? These are critical matters
>for which the black intelligentsia should be uniquely suited
>and adequately prepared.
>
>Sadly, this is not the debate that Dyson wanted to have with
>his essay. For, while this may have been the root of their
>conflict, their argument has not grown in stature but withered
>in acuity. Dyson’s lengthy essay is not about the record of
>the Obama administration, foreign policy, Black Lives Matter,
>the economic crisis, incarceration, the wealth gap, or any of
>the urgent political issues that relate to the black America.
>It is about West.
>
>It questions his credentials as a self-proclaimed prophet
>(Dyson says he has none), his intellectual productivity (too
>low) and his desire to be in the limelight (too high). He
>berates West as a man who “inveighs, stampedes, and
>kvetches.” It’s a relentless, and at times, forensic
>demolition. But to what end? Is West the enemy? And if so of
>what?
>
>My point here is not to take sides. West is more than capable
>of speaking for himself and has been happy to land his own
>blows. “I love Brother Mike Dyson,” West once said. “But
>we’re living in a society where everybody is up for sale.
>Everything is up for sale. And he and Brother Sharpton
>and Sister Melissa and others, they have sold
>their souls for a mess of Obama pottage.”
>
>The circular confrontation is of such an insular nature there
>are no sides to take. There are serious points that might be
>made about the plight of the celebrity academic – though
>those could relate to the author of The New Republic piece
>just as easily as the subject – but they are not pursued on
>their merits. There are also important arguments about the
>intellectual and his or her relationship to the polity. In the
>debris of Dyson’s demolition, one may find a broader
>critique that West’s “decline” is, in no small part, due
>to his refusal to embrace the symbolism of Obama’s
>presidency and tone down the critiques of its substance. But
>you’ll have to sift through the personal rancor to find
>them.
>
>At the best of times this would be an internal dispute between
>two well-paid tenured professors that barely resonated beyond
>the academe and made precious little impact within it. But
>these are not the best of times. Black people are being shot
>dead in the street almost daily by trigger-happy cops and two
>ostensibly smart men, who have both produced excellent work
>and who pride themselves on being engaged academics responsive
>to the needs of the black community, are firing broadsides at
>each other.
>
>The role of the public intellectual is to raise the level of
>public conversation so that it might better grapple with the
>complex issues of the day; Dyson’s essay further lowers it
>to the point of irrelevance. One can only hope they now bury
>it and direct their considerable polemical abilities at more
>worthy targets.
>
>

in ALL those movements

Dyson bitchin about West

Dyson's a heaux

“It’s understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man with black skin.”

that's fucked up ^^^

its highly relevant to his critique of obama's administration

*blink*
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

its basically questioning if obama's black enough
(or are we back to that B/b shit?)

seriously fucked up


and some people still want to argue that this man is being critical

like did west even think before speaking?

I mean why not put your anti-obama feelings into a tight-knit book and shut all your haters down.

At least put the weight of your credentials to work if you're really living that life.

.

This is like the academy's version of Drake vs Cole, lmfao.

I never liked cornel and I'm glad somebody is calling him out.


Mixes
http://www.mixcloud.com/rachel-stewart/
Jewelry
http://rachelstewartjewelry.com/
http://stewartvintage.com/
Photography
http://www.creativesilence.net/

.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

series of books & panel discussions to get $$$

.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

reading this.

I've never had such an entertaining workout:
http://www.theblackguywhotips.com/2015/04/21/934-blackademic-beef/

I only wish I could keep up with his output. Have to listen to this one today.

loving the 'dear brother' part


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I haven't been able to take him seriously.

He publically talks shit about people, he should expect the same thing in kind.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

A bunch of words and nothing much of substance.

I'm not a fan of either but that has Dyson wrote that made you want to read? Dyson is a hack and a fast talking hustler tryna get over with big words. He is like those white boys in rap cyphers tryna over compensate for saying shit and making it look cute. I have actually read a book by West and respect him as a intellectual over Dyson all day.

>A bunch of words and nothing much of substance.
>
>I'm not a fan of either but that has Dyson wrote that made you
>want to read? Dyson is a hack and a fast talking hustler tryna
>get over with big words. He is like those white boys in rap
>cyphers tryna over compensate for saying shit and making it
>look cute. I have actually read a book by West and respect him
>as a intellectual over Dyson all day.


so?

does that negate the criticism of Cornel that he wrote?

Im being devils advocate here

Do some thought provoking work before you start calling somebody out for allegedly falling off especially when you never was on yourself.

The article is a masterpiece of verbal reckoning that exposes the BS and Hypocrisy hat West is living and promoting.

.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

Apparently you didn't nor do you know anything about the context that shaped the entire article.

So, back to my point, what the heck are you talking about? On what basis can you even say that Dyson is not up to the standard for even checking West?


.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

Cornell been pretty much been digging his own grave for the past decade

This is just a "you know what i don't like you no mo either"
bye felicia

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

West ain't worried about popularity he says what he truly thinks feels and believes in my opinion right or wrong. He doesn't strike me as an opportunist.

He clearly acts as if he doesn't have to answer to anyone for his accusations, verbal diatribes of emotion, his attacking and labeling of people with negative red letters of shameful names.







.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

who has been out of pocket for a decade

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

THE BEST professor, writing, scholar for my services and to me that is West by far. His criticism of Obama may be personal but that doesn't make it any less true. He is one of the few guys with balls to say shit that isn't popular to say but still factual.

If you challenging somebody on their intellectual acuemen and you don't
have anything to measure up I don't care if it is elitist its true.

Most things are not elitist are all but set up to keep the best and brightest from doing a given field.

I want my professors to critique politicians with a clear head. Once you start getting personal its too easy to start sounding irrational.

leaders > pundits

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

Since 1976

You ain't gonna get away with talking about how someone can't keep a woman with out a fight.

.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

this does not speak well of his intelligence


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>this does not speak well of his intelligence
>
>
>www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at


Dyson got fed up with the West BS and decided to give him a whole helping of "Check Yo Self".

So, this has nothing to do with his intelligence, but I bet he's chew you up in a debate.



.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

he doesn't exist to me.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>he doesn't exist to me.

He'd be wasting his time and going backwards.




.
.
.
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

Dyson is clearly an incredibly smart, well-read, and quick thinking individual. Dare I say, brilliant.
I get not liking his style or his wanna-be-down hip hop quotables. But people acting like he's dumb are fucking ridiculous.

http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2015/04/michael-eric-dyson-cornel-west.html

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/michael-eric-dyson-cornel-west/5534433178c90a5e420005fc

why he did what he did more in this interview. I'm at the center now and not so anti-Dyson after this

I feel MLH was hitting with kid glove questions at times, but overall quality interview, yet Dyson's style still makes me cringe

anyway.

i still get surprised that people consider race matters a seminal piece

but thats neither here nor there.

glad you see the issue; its not that he shouldnt criticize,
its *how* he does it

i still do not like the article and what it represents in terms of the Black academy, and Black public intellectuals

yet this interview, made me understand MED's position and respect him more, than the opportunist, divide and conquer, slander that it came across as

you really have a strange obsession with delegitimizing CW's scholarship and work 'cause it doesn't fit into your narrow framework or what "real" work and critique.

As I posted above, Black academics and teachers on FB had a collective facepalm to MED and the piece. Very few folk took MED's side

>you really have a strange obsession with delegitimizing CW's
>scholarship and work 'cause it doesn't fit into your narrow
>framework or what "real" work and critique.

i havent discussed cornell's work, by which i mean his published works,
i've admitted i didnt care for race matters and can actually have a critical discussion about this
its not becuase its cornell but the message central to the book
(politics of conversation? nihilism? to me it was another blame poor blacks type book)
instead i am asking for his scholarship during this period
which no one here has brought up - unless we are calinng these kinds of interviews scholarship.

but ya, y'all assume i havent read west
and then want to act like criticizing his 8 years of debauchery as some type of hate?

give me a break.

Kayru gave you examples above, you said not good enough. there really is nothing else to do

Race Matters while it explores what you wrote, I doubt we can boil it down to blaming poor people. Yes it's been a while since I read it, over a decade, but that's def not what I drew from it

I read it (not the whole thing, lol) and felt like Dyson feels like CW is hurting his legacy by making his beef with Obama personal.

which is why I geeked down and gave him a silent nod or approval

He's like a walking thesaurus. He always gives at least two options for the words he picks.

Like, "We have to understand the seriousness, or gravitas, of the situation"
Or, "KFC serves chicken, or yardbird, that is fried to perfection"

expecting to see a lot of 'bootlikkin', 'plantation tales' 'moral bankruptcy' 'transgression'
neo-imperial elitism, liar and a fraud, posing as a turncoat progressive, bought off with legalized bribery and normalized corruption, low quality black scholar trying to filter that rage, posing and posturing, neo-liberal opportunist, titillating liberals... insert reference to jazz musician here or civil rights leader there....



its going to be quotes for days if this happens.

.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>expecting to see a lot of 'bootlikkin', 'plantation tales'
>'moral bankruptcy' 'transgression'
>neo-imperial elitism, liar and a fraud, posing as a turncoat
>progressive, bought off with legalized bribery and normalized
>corruption, low quality black scholar trying to filter that
>rage, posing and posturing, neo-liberal opportunist,
>titillating liberals... insert reference to jazz musician here
>or civil rights leader there....
>

Hahahahaha you got him down cold

Yo momma jokes may get fancy
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>Yo momma jokes may get fancy
LOL

http://www.wnyc.org/story/the-brian-lehrer-show-2015-04-22/

Dyson wants to be the smartest, slickest, most intellectual ass-kicking dude in the room. Dyson isn't happy unless he's out-spitting someone, hitting on the punchlines and verbally dismantling his foes. For Dyson, its about chops and your place among the intelligentsia. If your catalog hasn't changed much in many years, if you're still getting by on the same tired material, Dyson will eat your academic lunch.

If, on the other hand, you care primarily about some actual real shit happening to real people (not your own flair for talking about it) and the old material hasn't been heard yet by every last human on the face of the planet, and the powerful are still making it relevant, and it continues to inspire the powerless, you don't give a flying tooth if its the same material. Its the right material, so you'll keep singing it to your grave. That's West. That's my team.

Dyson's an inflated battle rapper looking to verbally dismantle folks for applause. Dyson's ultimate goal in life is to destroy you in an argument.

West has an actual purpose.