I was shopping at Zabars at the Upper West Side and I realized I had to stop at the Post Office. So I vamoosed to the nearest Post Office 5 blocks away.

On my way I saw this bag at Burberry:
http://us.burberry.com/small-canvas-check-backpack-p39459501?search=true

Should I cop?

Anyway, back to the story . . .


So at the Post Office, there was this blonde white girl who wanted to mail a key in a flimsy little envelope. Big black man warned her that it was a bad idea. The girl asked if she's allowed to do so and he said yes, so she confirmed that's what she wanted to do. Black man asked her again if that's what she wanted to do and she said she'll take her chances. While the black man was sorting out the details for 10 minutes, he questioned/warned her about doing so about 5-7 more times and that's when she snapped by saying "Can you just do this???" And he replied by saying "I just don't think it's a good idea." And she replied "Well I didn't ask you what you thought. It's not a life or death matter." And black dude begrudgingly followed her request.

It got me to thinking, if I was the person making the request I don't think he would've questioned me like that. He would've asked a second time but that's it. Men respect a man's final say and they let them deal with the consequences. He wants to run the ball on 4th and 4, ok fine, that's his call. I think the fact that the male worker was trying to help the female precluded him from allowing her to make a decision.

What do you think? Is this sexism?

and dismiss our opinions re: certain things.

she's dumb though.

whether or not he would have questioned you that many times i don't know.
but she's an idiot.

if it's because it's unsafe to mail a key

I agree...

and if somebody in the mailing industry tells you its unsafe, listen to them and try another method. i'd trust they know wtf they're talking about.

and I could see this dude doing it to a guy as well.

People who work at the Post Office give no fucks

they don't want to hear the complaints later about how the USPS ain't shit

>and if somebody in the mailing industry tells you its unsafe,
>listen to them and try another method. i'd trust they know wtf
>they're talking about.
>
>

its my opinion that you shouldn't do this." And he asked his co-workers to verify and they all agreed with him.

behind the counter becaues they're black or hispanic or work in a retail service position.

you could look at this many ways.

they sent this flimsy ass baggie, addressed and postaged already for me to return the phone to them in....

MY dumbass fell for the okiedoke....

3-weeks later I get an email from VZW

"Sorry Mr. FLUIDJ; the device you returned to us is not eligible for the rebate program for the following reasons: Device was returned to us in inoperable condition. Screen Cracked. Caseback cracked. Powerbutton non responsive."


FML yo....

"Seasons may come and your luck just may run out, and all that you'll have is some memories..."

If it had been a younger guy or boy, he may have questioned it the same way.

If it had been a grandma or someone who seemed like they were 100% confident in the decision, he may not have questioned it.

I don't know...kind of a random example.

Particularly in the wrong envelope. For future reference if someone asks you that be they man, woman, or bumblebee... appreciate that concern.

8 bills for him might be worth it

but it's my opinion

He thinks he is being helpful but he is actually being patronizing.
The conflict arises because his help is not beneficial to her.

It gets complex because sometimes the patronizing/chauvinist attitude would not cause conflict if the end result was deemed beneficial by the recepient.

The good type of chivalrous dude (if there is such a thing) is probably one who is equally as gracious and generous to both genders.

>He thinks he is being helpful but he is actually being
>patronizing.
>The conflict arises because his help is not beneficial to
>her.
>
>It gets complex because sometimes the patronizing/chauvinist
>attitude would not cause conflict if the end result was deemed
>beneficial by the recepient.
>
>The good type of chivalrous dude (if there is such a thing) is
>probably one who is equally as gracious and generous to both
>genders.
>
>

we don't know that for fact.

we don't know it for a fact.

i was just trying to illustrate that he might mean no harm while doing a little of harm
she basically had to tell him to fall back.

on a tangent.
its kind of like when a white person is being an asshole to you.
in way that you "feel" he would not talk to another white person
do you resist the temptation to assume he is racist?

i mean you used to call them all foes...lol...but for real for real what's your knee jerk now?

ornery and overly 'helpful' in general from my experience
i go to the post office pretty regularly (to ship cds and tshirts)
like i said in my initial reply i know of which you speak (i AM a woman remember ;))
i've even experienced it
but i'm not so sure that's what this was in this instance.

>i've even experienced it
>but i'm not so sure that's what this was in this instance.
i think we're kinda piggy backing on it to make a bigger point. seen?

i mean the type of male patronizing implied is obvious to most (you and i included) but for the OP it was kinda of an epiphany

p.s. yeah the postal cats CAN be a little extra. and the chick is not that bright.

Isn't this accepting knowledge?

It was hilarious, I didn't even catch it til OKP pointed it out.

During one of his 2012 debates, there was a question in the audience from someone named "Cary." He immediately responded as if he was talking to a kid, or to a 110 pound skinny girl with dark brown hair, like "Hi Caaary"....then this burly ass man with a heavy voice stands up...and he immediately switched it up like "OH....SUP MY NIGGA CARY CUH."

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

the gender dynamic seperately from its intersection with race, though.

but in the end she's just dumb for trying to mail a key in a regular ass envelope in the first place.

>but in the end she's just dumb for trying to mail a key in a
>regular ass envelope in the first place.

Especially male-dominated industries, companies or job roles.. like doing quantitative work or IT.

Imagine encountering that degree of skepticism, recurrently, just trying to do your damn job. And this is assuming you made it past the initial sexist assumptions that might prevent you from being tasked with the job in the first place.

Meanwhile your equivalent, or sometimes even less qualified, male colleagues get treated like:

>I don't think he would've questioned me like that. He would've
>asked a second time but that's it. Men respect a man's final
>say


It's beyond aggravating and often times detrimental to our professional advancement.

And this is just talking about work output, collaboration opportunities and promotion. The way such skepticism drives pay inequity could be a whole other post.

>Imagine encountering that degree of skepticism, recurrently,
>just trying to do your damn job.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

Again, I think there's space to discuss this dynamic with respect to gender before factoring in other intersections like race.

happens ON HERE to boot
let these sixist mofos tell it though
they mama a woman
they wife's a woman

meanwhile
"women are crazy"
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Might want to look into that
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

She has been doing this for years, best way to deal with her is to not even respond

Let her tirade away until she gets sleepy

But you can't resist
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

.

Because the " I'm a black man I don't have to imagine" is to be ignored
Mmmmm
Yall keep telling on yourselves
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

i work w/2 women and i have to stop myself from questioning their judgment.

note: i have more experience than either of them and i've been assigned to train them. still...there comes a point where i need to stop questioning their decisions. and i think i would stop sooner if they were men and/or if i weren't a chauvinist.

chain of command (Task lead, team lead, project manager, program director all women), I haven't really seen this much.

Over the years in IT, I can only think of one company I worked at where we consistently questioned a chick's competence and rightfully so: she was placed into her position as team lead by a longtime friend who was our manager and had near zero experience.

I'm sure it happens, but the places I've worked at pretty much embraced women IT workers and valued their opinions and contributions.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

not even being sarcastic
that's good to hear.

all sorts of nuances involved at the industry, company or even personal level (as in your example).

But by and large it does seem to be a commonly reported experience by women in male-dominated work environments.

The leadership structure is an interesting caveat too

>chain of command (Task lead, team lead, project manager,
>program director all women)

A former employer which I would rank the worst in terms of inequitable treatment/compensation of female employees had a number of women in leadership positions. I actually saw this as a good thing, initially, for the mentor/sponsor possibilities.

But I found that even female leadership can accommodate a discriminatory company culture if it means protecting/advancing their own professional interests. The chain-of-command got progressively male-dominated as one looked up the ranks... it was interesting to watch the degree of skepticism within leadership as well.

If women are on the receiving end of this and are not used to it they may feel singled out but it's par the course.

Every IT shop I've ever walked into I had to prove that I could do the job. No one has time to pick up the slack for someone that's supposed to know what they're doing so you will get tested, especially someone like me that doesn't have a degree.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

and qualifications are recurringly tasked, compensated or promoted in a drastically different fashion than the rest of the group at large what do you call that?

How would female employees in such an environment show and prove when work they are supposed to be doing gets diverted from them, they are overlooked/denied new tasks or they instead get asked to do things that are not even part of their job? Is it common practice for male programmer analysts to be responsible for notetaking conference calls and proofreading? What would you think of a company in which any females on a project are designated as default admin regardless of whether that couldn't be further from the role she is supposed to be serving?

I get what you're saying though and, like I said, I realize there are always nuances with regards to industry, company and different personalities. My examples are on the extreme end of things as well. But I've just happened to work in a couple of environments that were really bad for this. There's just really no reason to excuse that kind of stuff in the workplace, imo. We already have to toe the line until we can escape to a more equitable work environment. No way I'm going to hold my tongue speaking on the issue outside of the workplace lol

I will say that within those companies, IT staff were actually the most chill. It was usually the technical leads like say, economists or finance who we were supposed to be programming for that were huge dicks.

>and qualifications are recurringly tasked, compensated or
>promoted in a drastically different fashion than the rest of
>the group at large what do you call that?

Being real, it's been my experience that women were promoted faster than the men, hence the project I was on that had a completely female chain of command as well as others where women were promoted rather quickly to technical leads or, in a handful of cases, project management.

>
>How would female employees in such an environment show and
>prove when work they are supposed to be doing gets diverted
>from them, they are overlooked/denied new tasks or they
>instead get asked to do things that are not even part of their
>job? Is it common practice for male programmer analysts to be
>responsible for notetaking conference calls and proofreading?
>What would you think of a company in which any females on a
>project are designated as default admin regardless of whether
>that couldn't be further from the role she is supposed to be
>serving?

Again, even in IT roles, I've never seen this. If she has the qualifications, she's doing the work. Your scenario, however, sounds more development than server side/security IT. I could see shit like that happening with developers but not really on my side of the house and damned sure not when it comes to engineering disciplines (EE, SE, ME, etc...)


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

More than enough research has been done that demonstrates this is a real thing, whether you have observed it or not.


>Being real, it's been my experience that women were promoted
>faster than the men, hence the project I was on that had a
>completely female chain of command as well as others where
>women were promoted rather quickly to technical leads or, in a
>handful of cases, project management.
>

The presence of women in the leadership structure of an organization doesn't automatically guarantee equitable treatment or promotion of female subordinates, though. Like I pointed out above, there can be environments where female leaders are constantly second-guessed within the chain-of-command by their male superiors as well. There can also be environments where female leaders defer/turn a blind eye to a sexist culture as a means of protecting their own positions.

my direct colleagues were great and thought i was knowledgeable and reliable

it was always dealing with other departments which was an issue

i used to get calls from desktop techs about software bugs and i'd have to solve their issue

one dude refused to do what i told him to do. i really cursed him out because he was wasting my time and the client's time by not following instructions and i'm the only person who could solve his problem.

thankfully cursing was encouraged so i got nothing but high-fives from my team after that. lol.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

simply been an employee doing his job. After that he is crossing the line.

and heard horror stories of houses being broken into or other crazy shit.

but yeah, stfu and let her make a bad decision

industries and was treated incredibly unfairly(don't cry for me Argentina though, I'm a tall, handsome white dude, I'll be ok). It's probably just as bad or worse for them in male dominated industries.

experienced similar skepticism as an adult male trying to work as a caregiver.

that opened either address on the envelope, right?

and that perhaps the PO workers thought she was?
and good for her for not feeling like she needed to clarify

shit like that happens ALL THE TIME btw

on so many levels
if it's not at work it's a guy trying to pick you up thinking that telling you "i think what you mean is...." no muthafucka, i said what i meant.

lots of micro-aggressions questioning your actions, thoughts, words, and motives, even when you've clearly stated them.

like ripping through the envelop and getting lost
not so much someone stealing it

>shit like that happens ALL THE TIME btw
>
>on so many levels
>if it's not at work it's a guy trying to pick you up thinking
>that telling you "i think what you mean is...." no muthafucka,
>i said what i meant.
>
>lots of micro-aggressions questioning your actions, thoughts,
>words, and motives, even when you've clearly stated them.

As a letter or as a package.

Letter envelopes with letter postage are for paper only. You can do it and people do, but if you go to the counter they're not supposed to offer you this service because envelope rates are for paper only, unless you're netflix and work out some kind of special deal.

The only other option is package service that requires your 'package' which can be an envelope to be at least 3/4 inch thick. First class will have your flimsy envelope mingling in with packages that are up to 1lb (maybe heavier?) and parcel and priority will have your package mingling with and getting thrown around with 5-10-50lbs packages. You can literally throw a barcode and address on a tire or hubcap and throw it in that mail group.

Anyway, it's not just a bad idea, it's actually against regulations. Most postal workers don't know all the regulations. You only learn them by shipping thousands of packages, which almost none of them have done. Ive lost 1 out of 2000 packages (and 40% of sales are international), and it was a domestic package that didn't meet that 3/4 thickness guideline.

Anyway, he didn't know it was against postal regulations, just a very bad idea so he might have given a man a hard time about it too..

http://i.imgur.com/IW8simF.gif