http://www.oxygen.com/the-prancing-elites-project

fuckin right!

http://static.ebony.com/Kevin_Hart2_article-small_17157.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMb-uuXHnQU

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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

the visual alone probably puts a lot of people over the edge

(as otherwise, I would have had no idea why my post was locked), I question the harm in allowing a new post when this one was from over a month ago, especially considering that my post was more of a holistic view of the topic as opposed to being about the specific show.

Thoughts?

..since they started runnin' promos.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

And this one hadn't been responded to since March it seems.

>And this one hadn't been responded to since March it seems.


But there can be 20 sex post on the front page without any issues.



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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

all sexual matters under the sun, since there is only going to be one post pertaining to this television show?

But you also have seen topics that share the same theme and context, yet not be deleted.


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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

It's when it's just deleted or locked with no reference that I get frustrated.

>It's when it's just deleted or locked with no reference that
>I get frustrated.


If the Mods would simply say why it was deleted then the frustration level would be way down. But they seem to refuse to provide that basic courtesy.

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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

I happened to stumble across the "Prancing Elites" show yesterday..

I mean, more power to those brothers (I guess) but it got me thinking...

How do black gays feel about the representation of black gays on TV vs. that of your white counterparts?

When you think of shows like Scandal, and even reality shows like Million Dollar Listing, white gays seem to be given more of a spectrum in terms of showing them in everyday professional settings, while it seems that blacks are mainly promoted when extremely feminine, flamboyant, and almost mere accessories to black women (think RHOA).

Maybe that was part of the importance of Jussie Smollet's role on Empire?

I may be rambling or exaggerating.. not really sure. But those were just the thoughts that came to mind as I watched that show.

Jussie Smollett's Jamal Lyon is one of the breakout characters on the most successful broadcast drama in at least five years.

observation/question (no snark)

compared to more masculine ones, in contrast to white gays.

While I understand how you could come to that conclusion, it's not necessarily as extreme. Especially not at current.

vs. that of Empire.

Just didn't understand that point as my comment was less about comparison of viewers of the particular show and more about the ratio as it pertains to the imagery.

i.e. How many other Jamal Lyons do we see?

Maybe I'm disregarding others out there, and that's fine if that's the case, but that was my main point.

Kaldrick King (and his Obamaesque boyfriend)
Omar from The Wire.
A bunch of dudes on Oz.
Wade Robinson.

You have alternately boring and insane Don Lemon - he's just neutral, at damn near everything.

I would have agreed with you five or ten years ago. Things are improving these days balance-wise.

Can't believe I forgot about Omar.

I know that way back in the wayback generally gays were presented as nothing more than flamboyant caricatures and side kicks but rarely as real ppl with multiple dimensions. The PE Project presents those brothers' multiple facets. We saw real emotion last night - we saw that those brothers are more than glittery costumes and hair flipping and twerking. I loved it. And no, I'm not worried that white gays seem to you to have a broader spectrum of representation. I don't think that's true and if it is I don't care. Bc I see flamboyant Blacks presented on shows like Rupaul's Drag Race and Drag University as I said earlier - with multiple facets. I'm out here actually living as a Black gay professional and I know several others - I'm not worried about what bigots see on TV. Bc our war won't be won on TV - it's won IRL. And we are winning.

the show on Oxygen but I was so moved by that episode and the glimpse at the PE story that I'm all in. I wanna see those brothers win.

Watching this show might help me get over some of my own internalized homophobia - so maybe I shouldn't dismiss its potential importance or the importance of what anti-gays and bigots and homophobes watch on tv. It can help, I think. If it hurts - it doesn't hurt bc bigots and anti-gays will always find an excuse for their bullshit. So I don't care about their negativity in this regard.

still on.

While I'm not particularly interested what they're doing, I can appreciate the focus on showing that they are human beings just like everyone else, and simply desiring the freedom to be themselves.

> I
>can appreciate the focus on showing that they are human beings
>just like everyone else, and simply desiring the freedom to be
>themselves.

that's one of the main points i picked up last night.

has called. I saw a preview and I saw that it wasn't for me (but then I don't watch any reality tv shows).

But the folks on my FB feedback, brothers were triple time upset about the image of black men it betrayed. Alot tried to argue that it perpetuates an image of feminizing the Black Man.

I lightweight got into back and forth with people pointing out that the US isn't oversaturated with and we aren't suffering from an effeminate black man stereotype image.

Infact, the image that it is beaten over our head in rap music, athletics and pop culture in general is the image of the hyper-masculine brute/thug. It's that image that generally causes a problem in our country because it is getting brothers killed in the street.

Anyway, brothers weren't trying to hear it and sounded like War on Christmas, MRA type of hysteria.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

it's definitely cool what they're doing and i hope they win too, but with the kinda socialization in our community at large, i hope some key people who are mavericks and people of influence back this on a person to person level like what you're doing. it seems like most of us are just repeating shit we've heard from elders as far as "yall goin' to hell" and "families don't wanna see that" instead of forming one's own ideas. not that straight dudes are the "saviors" in this either, but with groups like the prancing elites being marginalized by our community, i think at some point those of us who don't see it as a problem are gonna have to start getting the message out and being vocal about it too.

the sake of entertainment and stereotyping.

They hyper masculinity as you put it allows us to be written off as thugs and/or criminals not worthy of true relation, empathy, or respect

The femininity element allows us to be considered less threatening to the white establishment.

Both extremes are problematic in their own way as they are promoted to prevent us from being taken seriously


>has called. I saw a preview and I saw that it wasn't for me
>(but then I don't watch any reality tv shows).
>
>But the folks on my FB feedback, brothers were triple time
>upset about the image of black men it betrayed. Alot tried to
>argue that it perpetuates an image of feminizing the Black
>Man.
>
>I lightweight got into back and forth with people pointing out
>that the US isn't oversaturated with and we aren't suffering
>from an effeminate black man stereotype image.
>
>Infact, the image that it is beaten over our head in rap
>music, athletics and pop culture in general is the image of
>the hyper-masculine brute/thug. It's that image that
>generally causes a problem in our country because it is
>getting brothers killed in the street.
>
>Anyway, brothers weren't trying to hear it and sounded like
>War on Christmas, MRA type of hysteria.
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>
>"One of the most important things in life is what Judge
>Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to
>whether you're

The content of the entertainment isn't the real problem.

Btw - there are plenty middle ground Black dudes on TV - Prez Obama being the main one. I see TV dads like the one on Blackish, all of those Tyler Perry sitcoms and dramas, BET's sitcoms and dramas, all of those Jeffersons and Good Times reruns...there are more of them than flamboyant gay dudes. Many more.

Most of these dudes have never watched Oxygen a day in their life.

chroo chroo

I saw it on Bravo, where it was aired after the RHOA reunion (i.e. one of their highest rated shows)

And the fellas subsequently appeared on WWHL with Andy Cohen.

The show does have legs.

Not that this justifies any bigotry or homophobia thrown their way, I'm just saying don't underestimate impact/reach solely based on the network.

If they ran the pilot or one of the episodes, it was as a cross-promo.

But the network is important in this case, because Oxygen is a cable network _specifically_ aimed at women. They just recently rebranded to aim their content at a younger, more multicultural (read: BLACK) female audience, but still a specifically female audience.

Their programming isn't aimed at men. NBC promotes USA, and Esquire for males to watch.

So, how will a show on a network men don't watch - and isn't aimed at them - have a negative impact on their masculinity? Will their women start wanting them to J-set and sashay?

If there's a show about black people not aimed at people, but includes what black people believe is negative for black people should black people care if black people don't watch it?

All that to say, I don't think whether or not men actually watch to show should absolve it of criticism from men.

The same can be said for anything that women have a problem with.

The fact that a show is targeted to men doesn't mean that women can't take issue with it.

Again, not agreeing with the stance of some men on the topic. Just making a conceptual argument.

I know social media wasn't the same in 2005, but I wonder if "Noah's Arc" would have been in their crosshairs ten years ago, or if they would have just ignored it like most black gay stuff is ignored.

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believe it to be a threat to their personal masculinity, moreso an overall ongoing concern of the portrayal and perception of black men.

That's just an assumption though.

In their eyes, effeminate black men are not allowed to exist, never mind be seen on television for 13 weeks (or however long they have).

That's the issue here. There's no actual threat to the image of black men overall. This is good ol' fashioned homophobia.

I'm out here
>actually living as a Black gay professional and I know several
>others - I'm not worried about what bigots see on TV. Bc our
>war won't be won on TV - it's won IRL. And we are winning.

Real questions no SNARK. I really want to hear your honest dialog.

Why do you think Oxegen is doing the show?

Who thinks it's a good thing for males to dress and act like females?

What do you think is the goal of these males? Maybe they like dancing and all. I'm just asking.

Do you think that the actions of these males will have a positive effect on the image on the Black Man or a negative one?

What kind of stereotypes is this show reinforcing?


Like I said, this ain't about SNARK, it's about questions and dialog.





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"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

>Why do you think Oxegen is doing the show?

Bc the network thinks ppl will watch it.

>Who thinks it's a good thing for males to dress and act like
>females?

I do - if that's how they wanna perform it's great. Clothes are just clothes.

>What do you think is the goal of these males? Maybe they like
>dancing and all. I'm just asking.

To entertain.

>Do you think that the actions of these males will have a
>positive effect on the image on the Black Man or a negative
>one?

Positive. Bc they help expand the understanding of what it means to live as a Black man. Also bc they and the reaction to them will help struggling kids and others who are trapped in the closet.

>What kind of stereotypes is this show reinforcing?

I dunno but as said above I think it'll expand our understanding of Black man's existence and help some folks come out. And it may challenge our homophobia and help us move beyond it.


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>
>
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>.
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>"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be
>kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." ~ 2 Tim 2:4

Real questions no SNARK. I really want to hear your honest dialog.

Why do you think Oxegen is doing the show?

-ratings.

Who thinks it's a good thing for males to dress and act like females?

-"dressing like females" to me is subjective when looking at ideas of masculinity/femininity on a sliding scale and taking history/fashion/personal bias into account. i saw dudes on the Appalachian Trail this year with kilts on who were lampooned by even fellow hikers who knew the deal with why it's cool to wear 'em, but *shrugs*.

What do you think is the goal of these males? Maybe they like dancing and all. I'm just asking.

-goal? to dance. they like dancing and they like that style of dancing. that it's been the historically been the realm of women is inconsequential. immediately i think of how wearing earnings and having pierced ears has historically been something BOTH sexes have done throughout time. here in america there have DEFINITELY been similar bias against it for men to wear them in just our lifetimes due to thoughts about what "men" should and shouldn't do.

Do you think that the actions of these males will have a positive effect on the image on the Black Man or a negative one?

- positive/negative? depends on one's perspective. i tend to just wanna look at what unfolds and watch. personally though, i think it's positive.

What kind of stereotypes is this show reinforcing?

-that it's becoming more and more unfashionable and ridiculous to ridicule people because they do something different than you. more than seeing the Prancing Elite as "different", i think the world is starting to turn focus more on why small groups of people (many of whom were marginalized themselves) are perpetuating the same types of ideas and bigotry once applied to THEM. the "stereotypical" conservative religious black (or white) conservatives are constantly shown to be on the "wrong side of history" with their ideas. (no snark)

>Real questions no SNARK. I really want to hear your honest
>dialog.
>
>Why do you think Oxegen is doing the show?

Because they think people will watch it.


>
>Who thinks it's a good thing for males to dress and act like
>females?
Because that's what they want to do and it's not against the law.


>
>What do you think is the goal of these males? Maybe they like
>dancing and all. I'm just asking.
Make money as a dance troupe, I presume.


>
>Do you think that the actions of these males will have a
>positive effect on the image on the Black Man or a negative
>one?
It's a cable reality show on Oxygen. OXYGEN. It unlikely to pull enough ratings among black men to have a significant impact if it could have such an impact, and it wouldn't besides.


>
>What kind of stereotypes is this show reinforcing?
I'd have to watch it to see.

sometimes you need a break from the ignorance
this gives them that

and also

http://www.tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=677

shit is real

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...get some lotion, bruh.

public ashiness is a horrible thing.

I mean look...I'm not going to check the show but I'm not the target audience....

Yet I can't help but mention that Oprah likes a CERTAIN type of black man....just from the shit she produces and shows on her network....she's subversive as fuck and I hate that she's in a position to show that shit.

You ain't gotta agree.

D

and what certain kinda black man? i don't watch oprah so forgive me.

And lol @ the notion.

Her name's nowhere on it.

It's not on OWN.

She (and all of the other original investors) sold her interest in Oxygen years ago.

So this isnt an oprah agenda.

Seeing other groups get more representation and taking it as an erasure of your own is a reaction to the underlying fear of losing your privilege as a straight man. Just like white people having a problem with Black Girls Rock or Black Lives Matter.

And like Sha said, the show has nothing to do with Oprah.

still hate Oprah tho

D

The fact that they directed half of their anger at woman who has nothing to with this program shows how ridiculous the rest of their points are as well.

I didn't even fully read that shit. Just the name Oprah alone made me go apeshit.

not a fan

D