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Forum nameGeneral Discussion
Topic subjectChicago: Y'all still supporting Chuy?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12753448
12753448, Chicago: Y'all still supporting Chuy?
Posted by CRichMonkey, Mon Mar-16-15 11:21 PM
I mean, it musta been fun while it lasted right? But you gotta be honest at this point; Chuy don't got no plan other than "You're mad at Rahm, right?"

And that's all fine and dandy... 'cept for that $550million that's gotta get paid on the pensions by the end of the year. You need a plan for that shit.

So yeah, y'all can still rock your Chuy for Mayor buttons and all that, but be honest that your man don't have a plan.




my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12753473, Where's Rahm's plan?
Posted by AnaStezia, Tue Mar-17-15 03:40 AM
12753504, I hope he plans to return to the WH Chief of Staff position
Posted by SoWhat, Tue Mar-17-15 07:24 AM
where he belongs! He never should've left. He is real life Doug Stamper. The Enforcer.
12753646, I'm still waiting.
Posted by AnaStezia, Tue Mar-17-15 09:23 AM
Plan?
12753666, Lowered and expanded sales tax to include services...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 09:37 AM
Increased contributions to pension plans from municipal employees and an expansion on the city tax to include corporate services.

That's what a plan looks like to fill a $550million hole... not some promises to do some stuff, you know, when you get elected.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12753686, Lowered what?
Posted by AnaStezia, Tue Mar-17-15 09:49 AM
How is a tax on corporate services going to fit with his "attracting corporations to Chicago" agenda?

Wake me up when he decides to come up off that TIF money.
12753691, TIF is on the table...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 09:52 AM
But if folks are mad about TIF going to a stadium, how the fuck do you justify using TIF to put money into the pension hole?

As for the corporate service tax, shit like accountants and ad agencies would have a surcharge on services. I'm actually cool with that because it's a way to pad billings and increase wages in corporate service gigs.



my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12753695, Public benefit vs private benefit
Posted by SoWhat, Tue Mar-17-15 09:55 AM
>But if folks are mad about TIF going to a stadium, how the
>fuck do you justify using TIF to put money into the pension
>hole?

The money would go to state funded pensions which would free up state money to be spent on essential public services. Money going to a stadium only benefits DP and the hoteliers near the stadium.

>As for the corporate service tax, shit like accountants and ad
>agencies would have a surcharge on services. I'm actually
>cool with that because it's a way to pad billings and increase
>wages in corporate service gigs.
>
>
>
>my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right:
>http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
>my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com
>
>*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12753706, Duh.
Posted by AnaStezia, Tue Mar-17-15 09:59 AM
No one in their right mind would be against using TIF money for that instead of an unnecessary stadium.
12753707, Short Term vs. Long Term...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 09:59 AM
The hotels and stadium generate revenue in the form of taxable income/spending for the folks doing the construction and then a sustaining level of tax revenue from occupancy of hotel rooms, meal taxes, and use of the facility.

One big drop in the bucket now or a whole lot of tiny drops accruing over time?


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12753713, Because DePaul basketball is such a huge draw.
Posted by AnaStezia, Tue Mar-17-15 10:04 AM
12753715, No, but the Auto Show is...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 10:07 AM
As are the other conventions, concerts, and gatherings that happen in Rosemont at the Allstate Arena and their convention center.

The stadium needed a tenant, it got one with DePaul, but it's going to have a lot more uses than 12 basketball games a year.



my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12753916, the Auto Show ain't hurting for space at McCormick.
Posted by SoWhat, Tue Mar-17-15 11:42 AM
>As are the other conventions, concerts, and gatherings that
>happen in Rosemont at the Allstate Arena and their convention
>center.

sure but the question was about how Chuy can justify using TIF money to fix the pension problem w/o ppl bitching the way they bitch about TIF money being used to fund the stadium. quite easily considering the TIF money used to shore up the pension problem has a pretty direct and obvious public benefit whereas using the money to fund that stadium has an obvious private benefit and a very indirect and stretched public benefit. IMO the public benefit of the pension use far outweighs that of the private use. so the proposed usage of TIF $ to fix the pensions can be easily justified, IMO.
12753946, But once that money's gone, that money's gone...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 11:54 AM
It's just another form of kicking the can down the road akin to selling parts of your car to get gas money.

If we know that revenues are needed in any long term fix, why not use TIF money to drive projects that will create long term dividends? That's a progressive and pro-growth strategy that says we can build up the city and that will generate the floor for revenues based on usage fees of these new facilities (see: taxes, etc.). It's not as directly or unfairly redistributive, which is another knock on Chuy that I could go on for days about, and it encourages people to come to the city.

Otherwise, we'll find ourselves paying down the debt in December and then still scraping the bottom of the bucket to get the other 70% in subsequent years. And that will lead to a spike in property taxes and, without reasonably amenities to justify the hikes, folks are going to be reluctant to move into the city. That's great for Evanston, Oak Park, and Cicero, but that's bad for Chicago.



my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12754073, Having a fully funded employee pension fund can spur long term growth
Posted by AnaStezia, Tue Mar-17-15 12:40 PM
By way of Chicago having a better credit rating next time they need to issue bonds. Not to mention paying your retirees what they were promised is good business.

And since when is McCormick losing convention business to Rosemont?
12754110, And herein lies the problem...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 12:57 PM
"Not to mention paying your retirees what they were promised is good business."

The city overpromised and took too many pension holidays under Daley's watch expecting revenues to appear from money heaven. Chuy's approach to it seems to be all about avoiding making hard choices and instead trying to double down on keeping promises to the unions that no longer make financial sense.

The biggest roadblock in confronting this shortfall issue is the state supreme court saying that they city can't alter the terms of the deal. If they could increase contributions in the near-term and cap payouts for future retirees, that would go a long way towards fixing the problems.

But the unions keep digging in their heels and not being an equal partner in sacrifice. I have absolutely no pity for the Teacher's Union striking because they don't want to make uncomfortable changes. I'm actually shocked at the SEIU for backing Chuy when Rahm has already gone to bat for and gotten a higher minimum wage in the city. That makes them look like greedy reactionaries.

I don't see how Chuy makes all of his promises work without somehow capturing Smaug and leveraging his gold towards the city's future.




my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12754285, Why should the unions have to make an equal sacrifice?
Posted by AnaStezia, Tue Mar-17-15 02:14 PM
They ain't the ones who just decided to skate on payments for five years.
My mother is a retired Chicago Teacher. Her medical benefits are shit. They just eliminated their dental plan completely, I think. How much more should she have to give up?
12754332, Why? For the sake of the solvency of the system...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 02:39 PM
Sure, the pensions can stay as is and accrue more costs to maintain benefit levels, but someone's going to have to pay for it and it's going to mean raising revenues from somewhere and cutting spending somewhere else.

So, you can maintain the billion dollar liability for retirees but that's going to mean higher property taxes to pay into a CPS system that will have fewer schools and fewer (lower paid) teachers. As more retirees hit the system, the costs will increase until you have to find other more creative means of generating revenue and you'll have things like a commuter tax or even a city income tax that will be dedicated to propping up pensions. All the while, you're opening few schools and paying current teachers less.

But that only works for so long before folks just say fuck it and leave town and/or abandon the public school system. The folks with the money and the means will cluster in certain areas of the city (which they already do) and those facilities will be great, same for the burbs. It's the areas where there isn't as much of a tax base that will suffer because those folks don't own their homes or their homes don't have the same value to provide as much of a revenue base for their local schools.

It sucks, but that's what sacrifice is, accepting a shitty bargain for the greater good.



my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12753488, his plan is to not be Rahm.
Posted by SoWhat, Tue Mar-17-15 06:12 AM
that sounds good enough.
12753498, Latest anti-chuy tv spot got news clipping from '88..lol
Posted by murderbear, Tue Mar-17-15 07:20 AM
I bet most won't notice though.

It's a dirty game, and Rahms playing it too
12753502, One ad attacks Chuy for being a career politician.
Posted by SoWhat, Tue Mar-17-15 07:23 AM
I'm like: REALLY?!!?

Lol
12753523, That's the one....
Posted by murderbear, Tue Mar-17-15 07:50 AM
I just saw it again on ch7

Next time you see it, check the dates...they actually oh as far back as 86

Man, if they gotta go back 30 years to dig up shit, he might be worth voting for.
12753524, You know?
Posted by SoWhat, Tue Mar-17-15 07:51 AM
12753530, Lol
Posted by kinetic20, Tue Mar-17-15 08:08 AM
12753538, gotta come stronger than this
Posted by illegal, Tue Mar-17-15 08:16 AM
12753581, Funding moves from Lakeview to Pilsen
Posted by DVS, Tue Mar-17-15 08:46 AM
Low End and points further South still neglected.

Willie Wilson would have given all of his funding to House of Hope as long as they let him come and sing 2 Sundays a year.

Rahm studied from the Daley playbook when it comes to Chicago. His move to fund the Depaul stadium was a death knell for me.

If I have to get fucked....I'd rather it be somebody new. Pause.

D
12753667, Funding for what and how?
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 09:39 AM
Folks are killing me with, "Well he needs to do more for the neighborhoods." without specifying what he needs to do and how.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12754430, C'mon dog....
Posted by DVS, Tue Mar-17-15 03:36 PM
Rahm came in slashing school budgets left and right talking about funding is low.

All of those schools were in black and brown neighborhoods...had rival gangs going to the same damn schools because he didn't give half of a fuck....

yet when it comes time for Casinos or stadiums...he got all the time in the world.

Rahm ain't worth a hot damn...I'm convinced Chuy ain't much better but I want Rahm outta office so fuck it

D
12754448, No, you c'mon...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 03:48 PM
"Rahm came in slashing school budgets left and right talking about funding is low."

Um, the funding is low though. Daley had been running shit in the red for years and kicking the can down the road for the next mayor to deal with... that shit fell on Rahm, so budgets got slashed because math.

It sucks, but when your neighborhood school is supported by local property taxes, schools in poorer areas suffer. Don't hate the player, hate the funding system.


"All of those schools were in black and brown neighborhoods...had rival gangs going to the same damn schools because he didn't give half of a fuck...."

And they were also underutilized buildings in black and brown neighborhoods. Was he supposed to consult the heads of the gangs before he made a financial decision? Bruh, the financial solvency of the CPS is a paramount issue compared to the gang problems that need to be handled by the CPD. Every kid in Chicago needs to be able to attend a school that is functional, the gangs are a dysfunction that impacts the CPS but doesn't drive how CPS decisions should be made.

But the schools thing is just the start of a lot of fucked up decisions ANY mayor is gonna hafta make. The question isn't why Rahm did it like that, it's who is Chuy gonna hafta screw to get $550million by December... and here's a guess, kids don't vote.





my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12754493, Consult, no. Be aware...hell yes
Posted by DVS, Tue Mar-17-15 04:26 PM
I'm not saying that he needed a drop squad intervention on gang culture....but anyone who had any sense of the city would have known the violence that move would initiate.

Let's just leave it at that type of shit ain't that important to you....whereas that type of shit is the crux of what I vote on...and leave it at that **yeshrug**
12753743, CHEW'wehh!!!
Posted by lazyboi, Tue Mar-17-15 10:21 AM

"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,
12753793, More on Chuy's "plan" for fixing Chicago...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 10:44 AM
http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/71/445120/editorial-garcia


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12753917, i'm ready to elect Rahm president of the debate team.
Posted by SoWhat, Tue Mar-17-15 11:43 AM
and i'm not ready to re-elect him as mayor of Chicago.
12754124, But how does Chuy do any of the things he says he'll do?
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 01:03 PM
How does he stop closing schools that are underutilized? How does he pay to keep them open?

How does he break the city's contract with the company that runs the red light cameras? Where does the money come from to pay for it and where is the money coming from to make up the lost revenue from them?

How is he going to hire 1,000 new cops if he's talking about taking OT from cops already on the street? How does he pay the OT which the city ran through by the end of Q2 last year?

How does he keep all of his magical promises to the people of Chicago?

No one's told me his plan.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12754153, i dunno. and i'm still voting for him.
Posted by SoWhat, Tue Mar-17-15 01:15 PM
>No one's told me his plan.

i dunno it either. i expect he'll lay it out at one of the future debates.

even if he doesn't i'll still likely vote for him. b/c even w/o a solid plan i think he's better for Chicago than Rahm.
12754235, WOW, that's some astonishingly poor decision making...
Posted by CRichMonkey, Tue Mar-17-15 01:47 PM
I mean, there are literally billions of reasons to care about Garcia's plan (or lack thereof) and your response is "He'll figure it out."

Bruh, tell me you aren't serious.


my avy: Deep in your heart, you know he's right: http://coreyrichardsonneedsajob.com/
my hustle: http://SupaSoulSounds.com

*RIP: John T. "220v" Richardson, Blessing Benson, and Dilla*
12754244, yup.
Posted by SoWhat, Tue Mar-17-15 01:50 PM
several weeks before the election i'm expressing interest in voting for a man who has not as of yet shown me his financial plan for the city.

Rahm has laid out a plan and i disfavor it so much (casino? nigga, please) i'm willing to listen to a man who hasn't provided the level of detail Rahm has provided thus far. and if the man never provides a plan i still may vote for him b/c at this point i think even a man w/o a plan is better for Chicago than Rahm w/his plan.

12754356, I read this as Chevy
Posted by Binladen, Tue Mar-17-15 02:52 PM