http://creflodollarministries.org/ProjectG650/Default.aspx

Project G650 Campaign

Help Us Continue to Spread the Gospel of Grace Around the World!

Over the past twenty years, Pastor Creflo Dollar has been called to spread God’s Word to over forty countries.

The ministry’s current airplane, was built in 1984, purchased by the ministry in 1999 and has since logged four million miles. Recently on an overseas trip to a global conference, one of the engines failed. By the grace of God, the expert pilot, who’s flown with Creflo for almost 20 years, landed the plane safely without injury or harm to any passengers.


Due to this recent incident coupled with the 31 years the airplane has been in service, we believe it is time to replace this aircraft so that our Pastors and staff can continue to safely and swiftly share the Good News of the Gospel worldwide. Believe it or not, there are still millions of people on this planet who have never heard of Jesus Christ and know nothing of His greatness. Our hearts desire to see precious lives changed and snatched out of darkness and thrust into His marvelous light! We need your help to continue reaching a lost and dying world for the Lord Jesus Christ.


We are asking members, partners, and supporters of this ministry to assist in the undertaking of an initiative called Project G650. The mission of Project G650 is to acquire a Gulfstream G650 airplane so that Pastors Creflo and Taffi and World Changers Church International can continue to blanket the globe with the Gospel of grace. We are believing for 200,000 people to give contributions of 300 US dollars or more to turn this dream into a reality—and allow us to retire the aircraft that served us well for many years.


Your continued support is deeply appreciated. We love you and thank God for placing you in our lives.






********* Watching the video in the link is a MUST *********

as long as he aint got a suitcase

Literally the best, must luxurious private jet out there. $60 million dollars.

They got along for years with a used plane. They can't carry on with something comparable?
I'm sure they could get an newer version of what they currently have for probably around $15 million.

Think of all the good they could potentially do with the difference

Why does he need a plane? So what! The man has done more to change lives for the better more than anyone that will have something negative to say.

It's not like Rev. Dr. Dollar is balling out in vegas. The Rev. is doing real world wide ministry, it's not like he's not using the resources irresponsibly.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>it's not like he's not
>using the resources irresponsibly.

The double negative reads to me like "he's using resources irresponsibly".

So I agree

like more than in general, his fail streak is impeccable lately

im a grammar snob so i totally got you

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Dude is a snake...but oh well, if you donate, you're just as dumb.

Dude won't even settle for a 550.

instead of buying one. But you can go on and cook.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

its like theres so many people saying that over and over i can barely concentrate on the fact that he NEEDS a 60 million dollar plane

But hey if those ignorant ass negros wanna buy this hustler a Gulfstream jet whatever. I guess it will give them something to brag about, HAHAH.. "Well... my preacher has a Gulfstream G650!!" SMH

Folks at these churches are nothing but sheep being led to a mental slaughter every Sunday.

Free your mind and your ass will follow !! The kingdom of heaven is within!!

Dude ain't even trying to use fractional jet ownership or buy a smaller jet.

Its just absurd.

His ass can fly coach

This hustling ass nyuuuukah aint doing charity, he probably does just enough of some bullshit to look good on paper, but we all know thats not what this hustler is about.. Hell his last name being dollar should be the first gotdamn clue yet black folks still falling for the okey doke.

The fact that you are defending this devil says it all... WTF is wrong with some of you??!?!?!? The arrogance alone of thinking the rest of the world needs to hear this mans drivel is disgusting and vile beyond words.


brainwashed, hoodwinked, bamboozled and indoctrinated, wake up fools!


On a side note, hourly operating costs of a G650 is $10,000 and hour, shiiiiiiate, several million dollars a year. And of course the 650 is top of the line and currently the fastest private jet.. But apparently jeeeesus wants him to have it. There is a 3 year wait for this aircraft.. SMH

Here ya go brotha Case_One, this song is for you, HAHA

Promentalshitbackwashpsychosis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wL1NyqLs5E

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12746278&mesg_id=12746278&page=4#12746387

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Oh, no you won't, because none of you really care about the matter and many of you are pure cowards and wont do anything except complain behind your keyboards about his congregation and his character.

Oh, but Case is brainwashed and an ass. Riiiiiight.



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

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everything that man does.

Rev. Dr. Dollar is an excellent preacher, and teacher. I can't say anything about him as a pastor because I don't attend his church. But I know a lot of people that do and they have no complaints about that brother.




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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

He's not helping anyone by keeping them clinging to the hope that a cash windfall is just around the corner if only you pray hard enough and give your last dollar to the church.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

You write a lot of letters to Klansmen?

Republicans?

Fox News?

How many police departments that have whitewashed investigations into shootings of Blacks have you written to?

Get your weight up DJ.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Hypocrisy revealed and undeniable.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>
>.
>.
>.
>"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

.

But he did command his followers to “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation" Mark 16:15. Rev. Dr. Dollar is trying to live out that command.

Why does it bother people so much, especially when they don't even care to live the command out in their own lives?

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Look, let's say it's really in the ministry's best interest to have a private jet. Dude got around for yeeeeaaars on a used joint, why not save money and get another one that's been completely inspected and certified? There's some good used long range and ultra long range jets available for a fraction of the money he's talking about.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

It doesn't is the answer.

the hell?
use Skype
get you a chatroom mofo

aint no mofo way

Not to mention train a bunch of people up who can be on site and grow the ministry there full time if that's so important. $60 Million would buy a lot of that, it's just that those people would sit in a spiritual asset sheet, not a material one.

Shows where the priorities lie.

nm



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

I mean cmon....how is he affording this?

you don't even have the integrity to say this is unnecessary

only because you secretly to desire the affluent lives these type of pastors live under the guise of worldwide gospel and ministry

>you don't even have the integrity to say this is unnecessary
>
>only because you secretly to desire the affluent lives these
>type of pastors live under the guise of worldwide gospel and
>ministry
>

and the whole oh he's done so much for so many people is just the kind of talk rich white men rock when they're in trouble for messing with others' money. As if ill gotten gains are offset because you give a portion of it away and/or are active in the community (as if that's not part of the hustle anyway).

Why are you invested in the matter?

How much ministry service have you done across the world?

How is this matter impacting you?

And why are you so concerned with matters that you have to speculate about me?

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

You can't think of any way that 60mil could be better spent, even better spent on ministry, than buying this guy a fucking plane?


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

and I'm all for them buying a resource that will be used for the next 40 to 50 years. I got you playa.






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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

dogpile another man about his character over a jet when I don't know the detail, yet choose to give the benefit of the doubt. Gotcha!


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>dogpile another man about his character over a jet when I
>don't know the detail, yet choose to give the benefit of the
>doubt. Gotcha!

its like you would let people be led astray just because someone said, jesus on my side!

thats a sorry ass excuse for someone 'leading the flock'
what details do you really need to know
maybe thats a question we need to be asking
as of now, you really havent mentioned them

what makes you think this move is justified?
what mountain is creflo trying to move
and dont say china

I'm not going to argue about what you don't know regarding me.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>I'm not going to argue about what you don't know regarding
>me.

we are talking about how you are portraying yourself on here
and yes, it raises questions about your moral values

>Why are you invested in the matter?
>
because it's another "social center" where poor, working class, and middle class American people are getting exploited under the guise of salvation.

>How much ministry service have you done across the world?
>
I'm an atheist fam, most of the activist work i've done is around anti-capitalist practices, about the prison industrial complex, and representation within the academy as it pertains to people of color

>How is this matter impacting you?
>
because it's part of our collective dialogue as Americans, and as Blacks specifically. This type of ideology drives a force I'm 100% against. and please understand I'm not against Christians and their beliefs, I'm against snakes who exploit that belief

>And why are you so concerned with matters that you have to
>speculate about me?
>
it's not speculation if you constantly endorse or support certain ideas. I'm asking that you not cower and deflect, and just admit that you support particular ideas

>>Why are you invested in the matter?
>>
>because it's another "social center" where poor, working
>class, and middle class American people are getting exploited
>under the guise of salvation.





~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>you don't even have the integrity to say this is unnecessary
>
>only because you secretly to desire the affluent lives these
>type of pastors live under the guise of worldwide gospel and
>ministry
>
>

to do World Wide Ministry. These people really don't care, people are here just to talk trash behind the mans back. But I guarantee that not one of them would ever say anything to his face about anything of they saw him in person or even write him a letter regarding the matter.

People always have something to say about the man and they don't even know anything about the ministry that he does or the lives that he's help to change for the better.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

what does ministry have to do with raising 60 million dollars for aircraft?

>what does ministry have to do with raising 60 million dollars
>for aircraft?

Everything they need it to be or need to do with it. Answered!


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

why does a preacher need 60 million dollars for traveling?

>why does a preacher need 60 million dollars for traveling?


They need it because they're apparently planing to use that plane for the next 50 years.



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Evander Holyfield lost his home thanks to Creflo Dollar but let you tell it that's okay because "that's what the church wanted"

it's pretty sickening, but I dont know why I expected different from you

>Evander Holyfield lost his home thanks to Creflo Dollar but
>let you tell it that's okay because "that's what the church
>wanted"
>

Evander Holyfield lost his money because he mismanaged his money.

>it's pretty sickening, but I dont know why I expected
>different from you

Well is your so sick, what are you going to do about it?



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Seriously, does every muthafucka who claims to be for Jesus get a pass in your book? You don't have to discern who are truly faithful and who is a charlatan? Doesn't the Bible even warn you about false prophets?

Seriously man, is every single thing these guys do acceptable just because they claim to be doing it for Christ?


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

>Seriously, does every muthafucka who claims to be for Jesus
>get a pass in your book? You don't have to discern who are
>truly faithful and who is a charlatan? Doesn't the Bible even
>warn you about false prophets?
>
>Seriously man, is every single thing these guys do acceptable
>just because they claim to be doing it for Christ?
>

You mad about noting. I don't give passes, but you are complaining about something that you really don't have a steak in or any detailed info about. And what's worst is that all of this energy that you have spent attacking me could have been used to write Creflo Dollar or go out and do some meaningful ministry in your city.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>You mad about noting. I don't give passes

You whip out those rose colored glasses whenever people discuss structural problems with religion. I understand why you take the stances you do on theology. This though? You're handing out passes.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

>
>>You mad about noting. I don't give passes
>
>You whip out those rose colored glasses whenever people
>discuss structural problems with religion. I understand why
>you take the stances you do on theology. This though? You're
>handing out passes.


I'm not giving CD a pass. I'm just looking at the fact that the plane can be multi-purposed and it might even pay for itself in the long-run.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>I'm not giving CD a pass. I'm just looking at the fact that
>the plane can be multi-purposed and it might even pay for
>itself in the long-run.

it will pay for itself by more tithing?

>>but you are
>complaining about something that you really don't have a steak
>in or any detailed info about.

im picturing lardlad giving out steaks

medium or rare?

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

whats that about?

>whats that about?

Hey, I refuse to lynch as man over his name and a plane, just because it's popular.



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>>whats that about?
>
>Hey, I refuse to lynch as man over his name and a plane, just
>because it's popular.
>
>
>
>.
>.
>.
>"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

only reason i can see for this level of advocacy for a man who is taking advantage of those who do not know better.

that my character should be questioned.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>Hey, I refuse to lynch as man over his name and a plane, just
>because it's popular.

people being reasonable is nowadays considered lynching?
must be the debil talking

Just like they can mobilise against gays legislatively and that's fair game but when Creflo has to file his returns properly for the government that's a Capitol Hill witch hunt.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

You, I, and the rest should hope that we make it.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

others, including poor people, in the name of Jesus.

so no, sir, in fact i do not believe in this man's ministry or think it has been approved or sanctioned by God. it has simply been approved and sanctioned by money. he is a hustler, and he does it in Jesus's name.

*edit* and no, i'm not condemning that man to anything. i don't have that power. i said "methinks", not that i will see to it. and if i were condemning him to hell, it wouldn't be only because of the jet, but that would strengthen my argument.

>others, including poor people, in the name of Jesus.
>
>so no, sir, in fact i do not believe in this man's ministry or
>think it has been approved or sanctioned by God. it has
>simply been approved and sanctioned by money. he is a
>hustler, and he does it in Jesus's name.
>
>*edit* and no, i'm not condemning that man to anything. i
>don't have that power. i said "methinks", not that i will see
>to it. and if i were condemning him to hell, it wouldn't be
>only because of the jet, but that would strengthen my
>argument.



What do you know about Rev. Dr. Dollar? Really. Tell us what do you know about his character and how awful he is?


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

a little discernment would be helpful here. trust, Creflo Dollar is not the only one in that boat. i don't care for or agree with any of 'em.

>a little discernment would be helpful here. trust, Creflo
>Dollar is not the only one in that boat. i don't care for or
>agree with any of 'em.


I'm not blindly supporting anyone, but it seems that you are blindly going after someone that neither of us know about beyond the great and life changing ministry that he's doing.


What's your problem with CD again? What do you know that bad or awful about his character?



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

what's my problem with CD? my problem with him is that, in my opinion, he's a hustler getting rich in the Lord's name. i can't get with it, Case, I just can't.

remember the pastor i was mourning last week? he's the opposite of Creflo Dollar. this dude was a PhD, but did not go by Dr.

why? because he was a humble man and did not want to be propped up by titles or money or anything else. he wanted no barriers to be between he and his flock. he was a man just like any of us, and recognized that. you know that he would agree to engage in ministry, revivals, guest preaching etc and NEVER discussed money or his wages. he did what he did because he truly loved the Lord, not to make money or get rich. the Lord took care of him just the same, he was not a poor man, but he was a humble man and certainly not a rich man. but he lived a rich life.

i'm sorry, dude. i can't get with Creflo Dollar or his ilk. i simply can't. it goes against everything i feel like being a Christian is all about. am i saying that his message or whatever has absolutely no merit? no, not necessarily. but i cannot and will not get behind or support someone, anyone (honestly, close family is included in this) who will get rich and live a lavish life and do so off the backs of their congregation. it is not what the Lord intends for his messengers and teachers to do. when making money becomes the primary focus, then the focus is misguided and the Lord is no longer driving the "ministry".

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

with you on this point. ever. the money driven culture of the Christian church (in many instances) disgusts me.

but you still my dude.

>with you on this point. ever. the money driven culture of
>the Christian church (in many instances) disgusts me.
>
>but you still my dude.


There are plenty of things in the that pastors and people do that get on my nerves too, but this single incident is not one of'em.

Smoke. We still golden.




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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Some more of your low calorie logic.. SMH

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

And watching your hypocrisy reveal itself in the reply.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>Some more of your low calorie logic.. SMH

ouch

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

As ineffective as all those unwritten letters to Joel Osteen.

That you're wrong cuz I said so logic might work at church for you, but here it's proof you've got nothing to back you up.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

But that's got no bearing on me.

Maybe if you could respond to what people say instead of looking to condescend and condemn you'd find clarity.

You stay confused though.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Got you reduced to name calling real quick this time.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

yikes

Just want to have something negative to say abut that man no matter what he does. Y'all act like people need OKP's GD approval to do ministry. #Truth

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

The fact that this is not only ok with you, but worth defending says a lot.

You do realize that you have to pay (a lot) to use your own plane right? I'm sure 60m could be used to help a lot of people (like real life help...paying bills and shit like that) instead of using it to fly around just to talk to folks. If I were a preacher I would be pissed at this.

Worldwide ministry shouldn't require that you take from those less fortunate than you. End of story. Anyone that thinks otherwise gets major side eye from me.

Dude is not Jesus. He needs to go sit down somewhere...same goes for you.

>to do World Wide Ministry. These people really don't care,
>people are here just to talk trash behind the mans back. But I
>guarantee that not one of them would ever say anything to his
>face about anything of they saw him in person or even write
>him a letter regarding the matter.
>
>People always have something to say about the man and they
>don't even know anything about the ministry that he does or
>the lives that he's help to change for the better.
>
>
>.
>.
>.
>"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

and she didn't need or use a private jet that costs $65 million. Jesus did too. You telling us that Creflo is greater than Jesus?

the fact that you are cosigning this lets me KNOW without a shadow of a doubt now that you are a troll

>and she didn't need or use a private jet that costs $65
>million.


she opposed birth control for women in the slums of calcutta, opposed abortion, & basic healthcare (Jesus saves after all) and paraded herself as a champion of the poor + disenfranchised.

she also took MILLIONS of dollars from that Haitian dictator “Baby Doc,” and defended him butchering black people by the thousands

also took millions from notorious fraudster Charles Keating (who actually did rob millions from poor Americans) and she refused to return his donation money.

edit, "The Missionary Position" by Christopher Hitchens is an excellent read btw.

She'd be very down to chill and have a drink w/ Creflo

fuck that bitch for all the needless suffering and misery
she caused people. may she burn in hell

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

believe any words coming out of his mouth with a name like that.

If he was on Wall Street, he's be making a killing with that name and people would be listening, even with his Government last name.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

but this church crook just says gimme $300 and folks do it.

i mean i really would love to see his budget for international ministry. as well as his results from all the international miles he's logged in the past.

If you want to see the budget, just call and ask for a copy.

My church's budget is available to anyone that ask and most churches have their budget available too.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

he has no reason to lie about how the money is being spent, lol...the problem is that he's not providing any information about how THIS particular plane vs. a cheaper plane will help him with his ministry.

Creflo Dollar Ministries (CDM) functions as the helm outreach for World Changers Church International, but I can guarantee that since CDM is foundation there is no commingling of monies/funds with the church (Word Changers) that he pastors. Thus, the Church is not paying for that plane. Just so that you know.

We have the same set-up at my church and in my fraternity chapter. My chapter has a foundation that we operate and raise money for and we have a a general program that we raise money to do work.



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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

how is he justifying the cost?

thats my question and my point.

like i care how their business is structured, lol.

>how is he justifying the cost?
>

Maybe usage and longevity and the fact that will become an asset.


>thats my question and my point.
>
>like i care how their business is structured, lol.


OMG. really. You don't but like other's you sure are acting like you care...lol




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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

"maybe usage and longevity" "maybe it will become an asset"

WHAT???

the basic question is: how will a luxury plane help him spread the gospel better than a cheaper plane?

when you ask people for money, you should respect them enough to justify how that cost helps them accomplish their mission.

if he can say, "I am asking for the money for THIS plane because it is known to last 20 years longer than the average plane, which makes it a more sensible purchase than a cheaper plane."

but instead this man just says, "gimme 300 dollars for this luxury plane."

in any business venture, you dont ask investors for money on some "just because" or "maybe it will..."

it just shows the man has little respect for his congregation and their hard-earned money.

and when i say i dont care about how their business is structured, i mean it. like it matters if its CDM or World Changers Ministries. they're both evil as far as I'm concerned.

i drove by Creflo Dollar's house the other day and felt the evil in the air, lol.

I know exactly what I'm talking about

>"maybe usage and longevity" "maybe it will become an asset"
>
>WHAT???
>

The lifecycle can help with the long-term value to the service of the product.



>the basic question is: how will a luxury plane help him spread
>the gospel better than a cheaper plane?
>
>when you ask people for money, you should respect them enough
>to justify how that cost helps them accomplish their mission.
>


He told the people what the money is for. So if they want to contribute they are well informed.



>if he can say, "I am asking for the money for THIS plane
>because it is known to last 20 years longer than the average
>plane, which makes it a more sensible purchase than a cheaper
>plane."
>
>but instead this man just says, "gimme 300 dollars for this
>luxury plane."
>
>in any business venture, you dont ask investors for money on
>some "just because" or "maybe it will..."
>
>it just shows the man has little respect for his congregation
>and their hard-earned money.
>
>and when i say i dont care about how their business is
>structured, i mean it. like it matters if its CDM or World
>Changers Ministries. they're both evil as far as I'm
>concerned.
>
>i drove by Creflo Dollar's house the other day and felt the
>evil in the air, lol.



Well the people that will choose to give are well informed by his history, character, missions, and service.


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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>The lifecycle can help with the long-term value to the service
>of the product.

i dont even know what that means.
maybe you want to say; depreciation?

>He told the people what the money is for. So if they want to
>contribute they are well informed.

no he didnt. he said buy me this plane. nothing about how *this* particular plane will effectively improve his ministry
if its about getting him to where he can do his whatever he does
that opens up a shitload of questions
if he needs it because of speed? really? he is in a race? against what?


>>i drove by Creflo Dollar's house the other day and felt the
>>evil in the air, lol.

i feel it from here!!!!

>
>>The lifecycle can help with the long-term value to the
>service
>>of the product.
>
>i dont even know what that means.
>maybe you want to say; depreciation?
>


No, every product has a financial lifecycle. Even a dumpster has a a financial lifecycle. That is how companies like Wast Management cost out their budget for the dumpsters. And as a former cost accountant for a fortune 100 company that did cost analysis for the life cycle of equipment I know what I'm talking about. But hey if you don't know then say so.


>>He told the people what the money is for. So if they want to
>>contribute they are well informed.
>
>no he didnt. he said buy me this plane. nothing about how
>*this* particular plane will effectively improve his ministry
>if its about getting him to where he can do his whatever he
>does
>that opens up a shitload of questions
>if he needs it because of speed? really? he is in a race?
>against what?
>
>
>>>i drove by Creflo Dollar's house the other day and felt the
>>>evil in the air, lol.
>
>i feel it from here!!!!


So, you didn't see the video where he plainly explained why CDM is requesting the plane?


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>No, every product has a financial lifecycle. Even a dumpster
>has a a financial lifecycle. That is how companies like Wast
>Management cost out their budget for the dumpsters. And as a
>former cost accountant for a fortune 100 company that did cost
>analysis for the life cycle of equipment I know what I'm
>talking about. But hey if you don't know then say so.

and its show in this paragraph
a product life cycle is very different to what we are talking about
Creflo is not producing this plane so that he's going to look its product life cycle
he's purchasing this plane as a capital asset
and it will have a depreciation % attached to it.

telling me you worked at a fortune 500 company is beside the point
unless you are changing tact and want us to start sharing our work experiences

>So, you didn't see the video where he plainly explained why
>CDM is requesting the plane?

no i didnt, and yet here we are, even you who saw the video cannot explain this,
beyond saying, well they need a plane

instead of a vague statement like "The lifecycle can help with the long-term value to the service of the product."

that very statement just sounds like some crook shit.

what does that even mean and how does that translate to more people receiving the gospel than they would with a cheaper plane?

its a very simple question.

http://www.creflodollarministries.org/About/ResponseToSenator.aspx

basically.. you want to see our finances? uhm no.
moral of the story? that tax exemption code really needs to be re-evaluated

most important paragraph,
"As much as we would like to provide information to the Senator, we simply must do everything within our power to protect our Church and its members from public scrutiny and a Congressional evaluation of the validity of our beliefs. We have no choice, therefore, but to decline to provide Senator Grassley with a response to his inquiries. We are confident that you will agree that this inquiry speaks to the very heart of our First Amendment rights and will concur that compelling a response would certainly violate the Separation of Church and State."

involving large churches that would have eventually impacted the 501c3 status of all churches.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

i think the bigger question here tho is if churches should even have that status
i dont think so

especially if we are talking church-state separation
there's nothing about churches that should exempt them from reporting income from the state...
even if we separate out tithes... and the charitable portions of their work
(and no, ministering does not count)
other than that? i dont see any reason for that tax exemption


>the 501c3 status of all churches.it's your right."

>i think the bigger question here tho is if churches should
>even have that status
>i dont think so
>
>especially if we are talking church-state separation
>there's nothing about churches that should exempt them from
>reporting income from the state...
>even if we separate out tithes... and the charitable portions
>of their work
>(and no, ministering does not count)
>other than that? i dont see any reason for that tax exemption
>
>
>>the 501c3 status of all churches.it's your right."
>


What can I say. It's your opinion.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

loud and wrong as you typically tend to be.

now all of a sudden you are bashful with your opinions?

jehova hold me.

>jehova hold me.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

period

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

not appreciated

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

200,000 poor families are about to take food out of their kids' mouths so this dude can live like a saudi prince. reach down and get it, rev.

meanwhile, jesus instructed his followers to sell everything they have and give to the poor. literally the exact opposite of project G650. anyone defending this man in the name of christianity is a liar.

These folks are going to scrap and save to come up with money to give to this cause... Outside of the money he has already taken from them.

Shameful.

like "a fool and his money." but then you start thinking about who the "fools" are, and you just get mad about it.

and the worst part is he's convincing people that this is what jesus would've wanted-- for poor people to gather what they have so pastor dollar can spread the word in a $60 million G650. this is exactly what it means to use the lord's name in vain.

https://ferrelljenkins.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/balage_jesus_and_the_money_changers-t1.jpg

on the other hand, there are so many remote villages that-- more than anything else-- need to hear pastor dollar's gospel of financial empowerment.

and nothing will send a more powerful message to the working poor of third-world nations than seeing a man of God stepping down off a luxury gulfstream jet paid for by the working poor of america. so if they can just scrape together the $100,000 they'll need to pay pastor dollar's appearance fee, the get-rich gospel of carpenter-turned-supply-side-economist jesus christ can be theirs for a couple hours.

lets have a rich man come and talk to them for a while. Provided they convert before they die of dysentery, they'll go to heaven so it's all good.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

^^^^^^^^^^^

exactly !

Instead of complaining you can "Join us in a variety of ways and help empower change around the world!"


http://missions.creflodollarministries.org/
http://missions.creflodollarministries.org/CDGM/default
http://missions.creflodollarministries.org/CDGM/thefourcauses


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

I mean that. Genuinely. I don't agree with how western "aid" is administered, including these projects you've presented me with, but I won't knock anyone doing actual work towards making people's lives better. So kudos to him and his organization for doing those things.

Now, how does anything about what you posted support the idea that he needs a 60 million dollar plane? Seriously, I want to hear the actual logical argument that you're making where you see a g650 as something other than superfluous.

That plane isn't going to fly missionaries to disaster zones around the world. It's a business plane.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

>I mean that. Genuinely. I don't agree with how western "aid"
>is administered, including these projects you've presented me
>with, but I won't knock anyone doing actual work towards
>making people's lives better. So kudos to him and his
>organization for doing those things.
>
>Now, how does anything about what you posted support the idea
>that he needs a 60 million dollar plane? Seriously, I want to
>hear the actual logical argument that you're making where you
>see a g650 as something other than superfluous.
>
>That plane isn't going to fly missionaries to disaster zones
>around the world. It's a business plane.


Here's your issue with me, you don't like the fact that I don't care about the place or the cost, because I know the good that it will help to provide. And I'm not concerned with the cost if people are willing to help fund the effort and the main church is not suffering and real ministry is still going forth.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

> because I know the
>good that it will help to provide. And I'm not concerned with
>the cost if people are willing to help fund the effort and the
>main church is not suffering and real ministry is still going
>forth.

what is the good that this plane will help provide?

I don't have an issue with the plane.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

what kind of person refuses to share information?

and apparently information that show's jesus good works and ministry?

you should just admit you also have no idea and are defending this man blindly
we'll understand
thats called having faith
although the bible also says not to have faith in man but to have faith in god

so in this case, misguided faith

Relative to the power, influence, and wealth this man and his organization wield, I don't see his actions as a net good.

You do.

That's the disagreement.

I don't buy the sincerity or theological underpinnings of the message he's trying to sell. That he aids some people with what he has is a good thing...then again McDonalds donates money and resources to a variety of charities, and I don't think that they're an overall positive influence on the world.


To me, you're no different than people who excused the opulence of the Catholic church for the past 2,000 years up until the present. If I side with any form of Christianity its the men and women who humbly serve the lord in their every day actions and deeds. Not the ones loudly proclaiming their sanctity, unshakably sure in their own sense of righteousness, as they hold ceremonies in temples they've built to themselves.

There is a hollow form of Christianity that pervades a lot more of the faithful than you seem to be willing to admit.

>lets have a rich man come and talk to them for a while.
>Provided they convert before they die of dysentery, they'll go
>to heaven so it's all good.
>
>
>"All the world's a stage,
>And all the men and women merely players:
>They have their exits and their entrances;
>And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Smh. This is just so sad.

lolololol

man this religion business was definitely the coup de grace for blk folks.

AND no taxes either!!!!

O' tired ass hustling nigga !!!

60 mil and flights running daily from a flipping airport near you
you must have fell and bumped your brain.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Lt4bgksHZ-g/UMMZG2qffyI/AAAAAAAADyE/3W_wRPdUdkg/s1600/pastor-jet.gif

he would do to Creflo Dollar?

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

THIS is why people are turning away from the church

Creflo Dollar and others like him are the reason why so many people are "going to hell," because people who claim to want to save their souls are such disgraceful human beings that people are like, "is this is Christianity, no thanks."

If Case and the like want to excuse vanity and opulence as saying the church goers choose to pay for it and it is audited and yadda yadda, then fine, that's the same justification for why CEO's make 8 figures at corporations that are TAXED.

TAX THE FUCK OUT OF THEM like normal businesses and I guarantee "Creflo Dollar" will go back to being Michael Dicksucker Smith.

they dont need that tax exempt status- or at least it should not be broadly applied

folks making money being on tv selling cds and merchandise
and we act like that's 'protected by the saintly blood of jesus'

bullshit
*this* is the for profit part of the church
only difference from a regular business
is that tehy get their seed investment from 'tithes'

i.e. the old robbing peter to pay paul

as long as my fam's not contributing

RE: if they like it, i love it

That man will need to answer for his own trangressions if he is abusing his power, privilege, and influence over his congregagtion and/or other supporters. There are rich and poor alike who will contribute. I just know there won't a member of #teamr****** contributing though.

I would rather that money go to ministering to the people with what they need. And i know thats my Catholic background talking.


"Believe it or not, there are still millions of people on this planet who have never heard of Jesus Christ and know nothing of His greatness"

If this is really true then I imagine these folks are struggling with having clean drinking water, food security and education.

I also feel this attitude is arrogant and colonizing steeped in Judeo --Christian white supremacist thought but I digress.



*****************************************
huh

Recession. Despression. Don't matter


Idiot will always give money to a guy named creflo fuckin dollar

Well, there's one in the ATL and he uses it to do ministry.




.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

How exactly does this guy use his?


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

But you ain't mad about that.



>How exactly does this guy use his?
>
>

He has multiple locations and he uses it to to fly to each of them for services.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

That's a much better use of a plane/helicopter.

>He has multiple locations and he uses it to to fly to each of
>them for services.

Oh...well that's just stupid. Use a car or rotate your speaking schedule and use associate pastors. Who the fuck does this guy think he is where he MUST be at every service?

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

>
>Oh...well that's just stupid. Use a car or rotate your
>speaking schedule and use associate pastors. Who the fuck does
>this guy think he is where he MUST be at every service?

He ain't tryna split that loaf.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

?

do you believe all a pastor has to do is just speak the word of god and all is good?

I'm sure he loves his congregation and believes that he's doing the best buy them....

It also sounds like the man has built himself a little empire, ostensibly in service of god, and possibly to his own ego.

I don't know him personally...but once again, I've been to a few churches in my time, I've met a few pastors with famous names. I'm not unfamiliar with American Christianity, and I'm not saying these things to denigrate Christianity as a faith, I just think that there are people who have given into worldly temptations despite their claims to be serving god.

And I think this is true of a lot of religions. It happens in Islam, it happens in Buddhism, it happens with Hinduism, and Baha'i.

And there's a reason why all of those religions, including yours, warn about pride.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

and "he needs $60 million for gulfstream's largest, fastest and most expensive business jet" are two completely different discussions? you're desperate to talk about one, everyone else is talking about the other.

and please stop acting like they're gonna be delivering transported organs in this plane. that's not what a G650 is for.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

1. Why do you care
2. Why are you mad

Whenever you don't have a real response?

I love these made up responses that are use to validate hot air.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

so he can stunt around in the world's largest, fastest, most expensive private jet. and he's doing it in the name of jesus.

question is: why aren't *you* upset about it, reverend?

I don't know. Maybe someone will give him 1 million and then it's settled.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

used to avoid traffic (that's how it was explained to me).

>used to avoid traffic (that's how it was explained to me).
>
>
>


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

did you guys see that thing that just happened over in that other direction? we should... we should talk about that thing.

If this particular type of ministry seem abhorrent to so many people to the point where it would actively turn them away from christianity, as a man of god, is it not worth your time to meditate and contemplate on why this is shaping how so many potential souls view god's word and the actions of his ministers?

The Catholic church suffered for its opulence...what makes you think these protestants aren't susceptible to a similar fate?

You're so ready to call everyone a hater and shut out their complaints, but doesn't your goal of saving souls require that you not just talk down to people from a position of authority, but to try to understand their complaints?

You don't seem very interested in really pondering why people have such a visceral reaction to prosperity ministry. Are those souls not worth your time? Are you so certain in your interpretation of god's will that you won't take the time to consider why so many people are turning to away from him?


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

>If this particular type of ministry seem abhorrent to so many
>people to the point where it would actively turn them away
>from christianity, as a man of god, is it not worth your time
>to meditate and contemplate on why this is shaping how so many
>potential souls view god's word and the actions of his
>ministers?
>


First, you don't really give two craps about the church or the lost souls of this fallen world, so don't come at me with the "How people view God because of other people" crap. As for people's salvation, CD has not done anything that I know about that has negatively impacted the potential souls that are available to receive the message of salvation.



>The Catholic church suffered for its opulence...what makes you
>think these protestants aren't susceptible to a similar fate?
>

The church is not suffering simply because of opulence. And no one is renouncing God, because of a plane.


>You're so ready to call everyone a hater and shut out their
>complaints, but doesn't your goal of saving souls require that
>you not just talk down to people from a position of authority,
>but to try to understand their complaints?
>


No, I already knew that the OP was as beacon of light for the same old crew, you included that ALWAYS have something negative to say about the Church, GOD, Jesus, Christians, etc.


And if the matter is so bad, then I suggest that you start your own ministry and do it the way that you think is would go. But you wont.


>You don't seem very interested in really pondering why people
>have such a visceral reaction to prosperity ministry. Are
>those souls not worth your time? Are you so certain in your
>interpretation of god's will that you won't take the time to
>consider why so many people are turning to away from him?
>
>


Ok. Why don;t you ask God how to do ministry instead of insulting me.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>Ok. Why don;t you ask God how to do ministry instead of
>insulting me.

and live poor instead of really acting like the son of god.

i'd rather sing hosanna than see this dude fly in luxury

seriously, i thought ministry was about humility

you are over here talking about opulence and luxury

that's what brought down the catholic church

>that's what brought down the catholic church

those mofos still rollin in billions
=\
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

before reformation and luther and..

Don't tell me that I don't care about the impact or religious institutions on society of the spiritual well being of humanity.

I'm on this message board defending Christianity and Christians from Atheists same as you. The fact that I also cast a critical eye on Christianity doesn't make me defacto your enemy. Maybe it means I actually do give a crap because I'm not just willing to accept easy answers.

Churches of multiple denominations have played an important role in my life. I view religion and spirituality as one of the most important aspects of human culture.

Just because you tow the line on dogmatic doctrines and trite modes of thinking, don't think that makes you better than anyone else who takes an interest in theology.

Here's an idea, you don't like me and others coming in here asking questions, why don't you go talk to some people who will automatically agree with everything you say.

And by the way, I never said anything bad about the Christian "God" or "Jesus". Never. I have spoken poorly of the church because that's a human institution, and I have talked about alternative Christologies because I'm not Christian, but you'd have to be a real hard liner to say that I'm insulting Jesus by discussing his non-biblical historicity. So yeah, lob that accusation at someone else, because that one ain't sticking to me.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

Because people equal shit.

"there are still millions of people on this planet who have never heard of Jesus Christ and know nothing of His greatness."

Who in 2015 has never heard of Jesus Christ? and millions at that? FOH

*deep shrug, breaks backbone*

Even if there were more than 1 or 2 million people in the Amazon...none of the have ever heard of the largest religion on the planet?

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

or a small army of dedicated hackers.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

Just hope god lets all the children and mentally ill through the pearly gates and let him sort out the rest

did you know that Christianity is the 3rd largest religion in India?
and I guarantee all the muslims there as well as the ones in China have heard of Jesus

I get it though. Make an emotional appeal based on a false assumption, tug at the heartstrings, and stack paper. Marketing 101. Not mad at him. I just can't clap to "millions have never heard of Jesus (i.e. Christianity)" in 2015.

"China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years"

they dont need creflo


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10776023/China-on-course-to-become-worlds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html

Hey, there's a Billion people in China and that mean's there are millions of people that don't know Jesus as their Lord and Savior. The same goes for India, and the rest of the world.

FACT

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>Hey, there's a Billion people in China and that mean's there
>are millions of people that don't know Jesus as their Lord and
>Savior. The same goes for India, and the rest of the world.

one of Jesus apostles (Thomas) sailed to Kerala (a southern Indian state) in 52 AD....following some Jews who had also left the Galilee towards of India after hearing about its open tolerance towards all religions.

India has a tradition of Christianity that is older than Europe's (and just as old as Northern Africa's)

& Indian people have known about Christ just as long as you have. if they aren't Christian, its because they belong to one of the other countless faiths that have found a home in the subcontinent for 4000+ years

You need to put down your bible for a while and pick up a history book.

I can refer you to some if you're inclined enough to educate yourself.

Tell me. What do and what don't I know?


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

i'd wager you also know nothing about africa

i also think its hilarious that you can tell someone this on the one hand

"You have a very limited world view playa"

and then when someone points out that you also have a very limited world view
you get all.... well do you know what my....


thats that low calorie logic someone up there mentioned

how you gonna get defensive when someone calls out your world view, when you literally did the same thing one post above it?

lol

in a rice paddy airstrip in rural china. that's not what this plane is for.

He'll turn the jet around with quickness when he finds out they didn't wire his appearance fee

with a full kitchen and bar to deliver snacks and ice cold sodas to those who desperately need them.

:|

aka the only place on earth that statement holds water.

well, at least ONE million, may not be countless millions but given the world's population, it's not farfetched when you think of remote places. (7 billion ppl) a million is less than one percent.

I don't see how descending on them in a giant dragon bird is meant to be helpful to them, though.

When everyone has heard it-- you'll know.

************************

It's hilarisad that it's real and people will actually donate.

Not 60mil for clean water, schools, food, or anything practical
but 60mil so he can fly over and preach at folks.
These niggas is way out.

The type of dude to go in your fridge without asking.

.

It can start with a worthy cause, like a guy has to get to work but his car is broken down.

It would be reasonable to ask for money to get a replacement in the same ballpark as what he had previously.

It would be absurd/wrong for the guy to solicit donations to a Rolls Royce.

People would probably gladly give money towards a Rolls anyway (just like I have no doubt Creflo will meet his goal), because that's the nature of crowd funding.

But that doesn't make it right

and we should abhor this just as much as we do every other fraudster

and niggas was like... "of course it killed you, it's called a killer whale. The shit is in the name!"

Creflo Dollar is the killer whale of the pastoral world... shit is right in the name.

https://youtu.be/qCCUUi5rx-0

There was talk in here about him needing a helicopter to fly from church to church.

Couldn't he simply install huge TV screens in each church and do a conference broadcast?

Probably not, cuz that wouldn't allow him to floss his new toy.

Is that why he needs help with the transportation costs?

- lies about fuckin up his daughter

- defended eddie long

- and now this


these the same type of niggas that would defend a slavemaster no question


i'm just glad they lettin it be known

Finding people that haven't heard of Jesus Christ would mean this bamma plans parachute to uncontacted tribes in the middle of the Amazon or in the middle of Papa New Guinea. Those are the only people left.

So how are these people....
http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/319/overrides/uncontacted-tribes-new-pictures-close-up_31963_600x450.jpg
going to pay Creflo's $100,000 appearance fee and give him and his entourage gift bags full of apple products? It's hard to scrape up enough for even a base model apple watch on a hunter gatherer's salary.


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>Finding people that haven't heard of Jesus Christ would mean
>this bamma plans parachute to uncontacted tribes in the middle
>of the Amazon or in the middle of Papa New Guinea. Those are
>the only people left.
>
>So how are these people....
> http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/319/overrides/uncontacted-tribes-new-pictures-close-up_31963_600x450.jpg
>going to pay Creflo's $100,000 appearance fee and give him and
>his entourage gift bags full of apple products? It's hard to
>scrape up enough for even a base model apple watch on a hunter
>gatherer's salary.
>
>
>___________________________________________________________
>
>
>DJTB YOMM

There have been missionaries trying to get at these people to give them "the good news" for several decades now, even though they've been told repeatedly that contacting these people could be deadly for them due to their low disease immunity for certain diseases, not to the mention the whole cultural genocide thing.
Yet, they won't stop... luckily several of these tribes don't play and and will kill you if you step foot on their land.

The whole concept is so backward.... If you don't know anything about Jesus because you haven't heard of him, then you don't go to "hell" for not accepting him. So to save people from the fate of not going to hell, we have to contact them to tell them about Jesus so they can choose to go to hell or not, when that wasn't even a consequence for them if they were left the fuck alone.




___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>several of these tribes don't
>play and and will kill you if you step foot on their land.

whos never heard of religon or jesus

if he lives righteously(as all humans naturally tend to do) will he go to "heaven" if there is one?of course he will.

"saving" people from their "savagery" is such fucking nonsense

The fact that so many don't see the problem with missionaries is extremely troubling. The arrogance of christians or any religious group to think they know best and the "backwards" natives need help. To hell with all of that crap, leave folks and their culture alone, if you wanna help folks in improving their living conditions and quality of life thats one thing. Leave that religious mess at home.

But its never like that, christian missionaries give you some food, some water, then wanna tell you about some white man that lives in the clouds and how he died for your sins, vile and disgusting beyond belief. After the raping and pillaging of Africa by the colonialist/missionaries you'd think people of color would have a clue

Some of these people may have the last knowledge of their specific cultural and spiritual practices. It's cultural warfare to just come in and say, "Lets just wipe that off the map and replace it with the same generic bullshit that everyone else does... because 7 billion christians is not enough. Let's all be one homogenous christian society. Yay!"
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

so he can go back in the past and minister to people who were lost and died before Christianity became so widespread.

a time machine isn't impossible if you have faith.

>
>a time machine isn't impossible if you have faith.

Matthew 7:9-23

9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Timothy 6:1-12

1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.

3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

Case, you on ********** levels defending R. Kelly at this point. If you can't see the hyprocrisy in a pastor owning a jet for "missionary purposes" then you are misguided.

STOP... and look at this objectively. $60 million is enough money to last at least 10, 20, possibly 30 years for missionary work. Instead this money goes towards a jet.

This gives off the impression that religion is a hustle and Creflo is in it for the wrong reasons.

seriously impressed

he's gotta have some major talent to have come this far
and that talent has nothing to do with preaching and more to do with being a conman

i mean, i feel bad because his target population is people who dont know any better
but damn! if *i* could convince a bunch of fools to go *in* on my school fees
(and trust me, my work will make this world a better place)
id jump at it

he needs to write a book akin to the 48 laws of power

gotta admire the hustle

Sit that ass down boy, lol.

J/K LOL


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

and the one thing in common ive found
is that the catholic and other white churches
dont give a shit about stunting
they just care abt getting that crackhead off the street
or feeding the homeless..gettin ppl their meds
you know real shit..
the black orgs dont do much..but they will take your money
for the "ministry"
kinda disheartening to see white folks take better care
of black ppl than black ppl
but yea..this falls in line with that

>and the one thing in common ive found
>is that the catholic and other white churches
>dont give a shit about stunting
>they just care abt getting that crackhead off the street
>or feeding the homeless..gettin ppl their meds
>you know real shit..
>the black orgs dont do much..but they will take your money
>for the "ministry"
>kinda disheartening to see white folks take better care
>of black ppl than black ppl
>but yea..this falls in line with that

Yep sure does

that's for fuel, a crew to fly it, maintenance, insurance, hangar space to store it, etc.

so, no, case, this luxury business jet will not pay for itself in 50 years. in fact, the total 50-year cost-- including the $65 million purchase price-- will be $115 million to $215 million.

what is pastor dollar gonna do? have a "G650 operating cost" love offering every year? or do these costs just get absorbed into the yearly expenses of the church (whose budget is suddenly one to three mil higher) and paid for by the regular tithes of the congregation?

which option would jesus pick?

What i'm saying is dude won't even settle for a used older jet. This dude is outrageous for real

compared to the bottomless well of tax-exempt church funds. dude can basically charge his lifestyle to the church as business expenses while he uses church resources (like the private jet) to go around making personal wealth from six-figure speaking fees and book promotion.

there's a reason why these megachurch pastors live like mexican drug lords. it's the perfect hustle.

Creflo is raising money for a G650 jet so he can go make a deposit.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/creflo-dollars-lofty-plan-seeks-65m-jet-for-global/nkWJN/?ecmp=ajc_social_twitter_2014_sfp

Half paid by the church he is visiting. Ridiculous.
All this is funded by donations. This dude is too good to fly Delta?

"Ministry representative Kayla Dollar told The Christian Post in 2014 that the fuel cost for traveling to New York City in the jet be around $9,500. Half of that cost must be covered by the church Pastor Dollar is visiting, she said."

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Lol @ these pastors living lavish lifestyles in his name.

Christ chased the money lenders away from his temple, he did not invite them to donate to a luxurious life.

This cannot be defended in any way. They all fall into the Anti-Christ category. Not on some satanic tip, but a simple case of doctrine and practice. They are hardly Christians.

that's why no one takes most Christians seriously

Christianity is predominantly about love. Loving yourself, and loving your neighbor. The reason why Christ was understood by children is because his message was simple. You don't need a bible to understand his message, all you need is a paragraph, at most.

Christianity does not require anyone to spread the word, or to go on a crusade. If you love yourself and your neighbors, your immediate world is filled with happiness and cooperation, and that is all that is needed from anyone to find the "glory of god" within themselves and in each other. Christ himself said the kingdom of god is within. Preachers, pastors, missionaries, are unnecessary and only obscure the message.

This dude seeking a jet is a clear example of a man who is not a Christian, but a wolf in sheep's clothing, hiding behind a gospel he himself does not understand or resonate with. It's a sham.

Because many of them know deep down its all a farce or charade done out of habit or a perceived lack of options. If the christian mythologists call one thing out then the entire mythological construct will collapse. In their minds its better to say its all gods will which keep all the bases covered in their minds.

350 years of African slavery and black folks still believing there is a sky daddy that's gonna make it all good.

This quote by James Baldwin every one should heed.


“If the concept of God has any validity or any use, it can only be to make us larger, freer, and more loving. If God cannot do this, then it is time we got rid of Him.”
― James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time

>Because many of them know deep down its all a farce or
>charade done out of habit or a perceived lack of options. If
>the christian mythologists call one thing out then the entire
>mythological construct will collapse. In their minds its
>better to say its all gods will which keep all the bases
>covered in their minds.

This bit anyway. To take issue with the Bible isn't to take issue with Jesus and His forgiveness, or His message. It's taking issue with the people who decided what would be included and excluded.

HAHHA

https://web.archive.org/web/20150313134337/http://www.creflodollarministries.org/ProjectG650/Default.aspx

Pastor John Cherry Sr... he used to be a used car salesman. : /
Nothing but working class people in the pew paying for it. That shit was the last straw for me at 17....


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

his son, who also went to prison, now pastors the church. my family left immediately, my aunts and uncles left soon after. my grandfather still attends 30 years later.

I have several members of my family that are high up in a couple of these mega churches...
If they get knocked I won't feel bad... they're scamming poor people out of their money.


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM,

mail fraud, conspiracy, racketeering, the whole nine. hustles attract hustlers.

I believe it was for his 50th birthday, so he could fly back and forth between chicago and Springfield ( he was/is a senator also)

I was a guest at church, I'm usually a heathen

The whole service was about him

When they announced it, I just looked around trying to wrap my head around it.

What really got me though, were his comments:
(Again, I was there)

"I can't wait to tell some of my pastor friends how good my congregation is.....'hey man, remember your birthday last year? What was it YOUR congregation got for you?........'a Cadillac?.....*pause for effect*.....ain't that one a them things that ROLLS ON THE GROUND?????'"

The congregation ate it up

I was sick

... where he validated the reason for him -needing- a Cadillac. He justified it by saying that he was a community leader and that other community leaders (mayor, senators, etc...) drove fancy cars because of their station, and he deserved to drive one because of his.

The congregation was in agreement... My 14 year old self wanted to shout "That's some ole booolsheeit nigga!!!!" but I'da got my ass beat for doing it.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

... and declared it a gift from God.
... then he got a Lincoln Navigator, fully loaded and also declared it a gift from God.

happened at her mother's church. A church where most of the congregation is scraping by, laid off from the various GM plants around the city.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

The preacher told the congregation she had a Jag because she prayed for one and told the congregation they wanted a car, house, etc... just pray for it.

When she went around to bless the congregation she skipped over my wife. I guess she could see the skepticism in my wifes eyes.

But nothing as dramatic as the jet....
I'm sitting there like, both of my parents drive almost antique cars out of necessity and this nigga want us to buy him a jet?! Luckily my dad is a super duper cheap skate and stopped tithing after that, but he didn't stop going. My mother stopped going all together. Around that time the pastor broke away for the Methodist church and they sued him for the jet plane. Every damn sermon was about the lawsuit.

If you notice all of these mega churches start out Methodist, Baptist or Pentecostal. Once they reach that mega church tipping point they quickly change the name slightly and become non-denominational. It's all about how those tithes get divvied up. Most denominational organizations require a cut of the tithes and other fees from all their churches, top down legally blinding bylaws and other shit like a board of directors who have a lot of say over finances and how money is spent. Get rid of the denomination and you don't have to split your bucks with the headquarters and you get rid of all the oversight. That's more money in your pocket and no one to stop you from buying what you want with it. Start a fake board, install your wife, children, etc.... Now you seem legit.

This shit happened at 3 separate churches I attended as a child verbatim. They all went mega in the exact same way. Creflo did the exact same thing. Notice how there were very few nondenominational black churches in the 80's.... then boom the 90's hit and there was an explosion of them just when prosperity gospel started to sweep in like a tsunami.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

how did you end up going to 3 different churches that all flipped into mega churches?

My Baptist Church back home is headed that direction...

They moved from a church we could all walk to to a church you have to drive to... 3 times as big. A lot of people stopped going and most of the elders have died off.

Anyway, they all started out as medium sized churches. We went to each one for 5 to 8 years....
We switched because of my dad's work schedule changed a couple times. Some churches get really snippy about people leaving mid service even if the sermons is over...there is no slipping out of the back unnoticed even if it's so you can get to work so you can pay your tithes. He worked 2 jobs for a very long time.

There really wasn't much of a difference between the churches except for the choir. Similar preaching styles, sermons, etc... They all started out evangelical and ended up 100% prosperity gospel, moving from regular sized churches to football stadium sized churches with full campuses and unaccredited bible "colleges" handing out certificates.

One of them even owns a senior citizens home. Oldest trick in the book. Churches start senior apartments, then take out life insurance policies on all the residents so when they die the church gets paid... None of the money goes to the family who are most likely working class, if not poor. Half of the families don't even realize the policy exsits after the litany of paperwork they sign to get their love one in the home. Many of these type of homes also get old people to leave the church all of the assets in their wills, including houses that are paid off and anything else of value. Family gets nothing... The church might pay for the funeral service and the burial plot, least they can do since they come out caking.
So not only do these people bilk folks out of their money in life but the steal assets from their families in death.
Scum of the earth...
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

http://imgur.com/UP7BeG4

asked who to make them out to...

I was like.. "make that shit out to ME or to my sister who is now the head of our family"

Turns out.. IN KIND gifts go directly to the church. WTF? Funerals cost money. Why the hell our people sending money to the church in my moms honor.

I was heated over that.

i have family in some of these
and couldnt shake the feeling something was wrong
these are the questions for me to ask

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>If you notice all of these mega churches start out Methodist,
>Baptist or Pentecostal. Once they reach that mega church
>tipping point they quickly change the name slightly and
>become non-denominational. It's all about how those tithes get
>divvied up. Most denominational organizations require a cut of
>the tithes and other fees from all their churches, top down
>legally blinding bylaws and other shit like a board of
>directors who have a lot of say over finances and how money is
>spent. Get rid of the denomination and you don't have to split
>your bucks with the headquarters and you get rid of all the
>oversight. That's more money in your pocket and no one to stop
>you from buying what you want with it. Start a fake board,
>install your wife, children, etc.... Now you seem legit.

They don't want you to know....
Religious denominations are run on a franchise model just like McDonald's or Taco Bell... If you want to open a church associated with a particular denomination then you have to pay a franchising fee and the denomination may get a cut of the money brought into the church depending on the agreement, just like any franchisee/franchiser arrangement. In return the church gets a built in base who will come to the church based on what ever denomination they identify with. These fees can be very nominal when the church is small. Its very hard for a small church with no denomination to take off because they have no affiliation. If I'm a baptist looking for a new church I know what to expect if the church says baptist church on the outside...

In return the denomination may help the church obtain building loans and other shit to expand, attach the church to other ministers to draw people into the church, help the church network, etc....

Once again this works great when the church is small and wants to grow.... But once the church get bigger that's a lot of money in fees going to out the door to the headquaters...

There are different kinds of franchises models....
Some contracts stipulate that the congregation owns the church building and property and the church just pays to use the name. Others say that all the church property belongs to the organization, cus remember they backed the loan and did all kinda other shit for the church to grow it along side the pastor. You're their investment. There enlies the rub.... Once the pastor feels he's a bigger draw than the actual denomination name itself and has more pull, he'll want to leave the denomination. But now the church is in a pickle because the denomination owns the building, plane and all other church assets, which is why all of these splits always end up in huge long drawn out lawsuits...
Normally the congregation ends up settling with the denomination and paying them millions to get out of the contact, because they essentially have to buy the building back and give them a little parting money for all the future revenue the denomination is fin to lose.
Interesting right?


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

they shoulda never let you peek behind the curtain. it's sad how thoroughly capitalism has absorbed the christian church.

>If you notice all of these mega churches start out Methodist,
>Baptist or Pentecostal. Once they reach that mega church
>tipping point they quickly change the name slightly and
>become non-denominational. It's all about how those tithes get
>divvied up. Most denominational organizations require a cut of
>the tithes and other fees from all their churches, top down
>legally blinding bylaws and other shit like a board of
>directors who have a lot of say over finances and how money is
>spent. Get rid of the denomination and you don't have to split
>your bucks with the headquarters and you get rid of all the
>oversight. That's more money in your pocket and no one to stop
>you from buying what you want with it. Start a fake board,
>install your wife, children, etc.... Now you seem legit.

Word of Faith got HUGE by the end of the 90's. Keith Butler wound up on the Detroit city council making moves for his church.

I remember back in '96/97, my moms went to the church for some help with some bills 'cause, you know... she's been a member "in good faith" for over 10 years at that point. Them niggas had her jumping through all manner of hoops and shit and eventually turned her down on some bullshit.

All them years tithing, and she couldn't even get help with the fuckin light bill.




Now she's a minister...

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

>If you notice all of these mega churches start out Methodist,
>Baptist or Pentecostal. Once they reach that mega church
>tipping point they quickly change the name slightly and
>become non-denominational. It's all about how those tithes get
>divvied up. Most denominational organizations require a cut of
>the tithes and other fees from all their churches, top down
>legally blinding bylaws and other shit like a board of
>directors who have a lot of say over finances and how money is
>spent. Get rid of the denomination and you don't have to split
>your bucks with the headquarters and you get rid of all the
>oversight. That's more money in your pocket and no one to stop
>you from buying what you want with it. Start a fake board,
>install your wife, children, etc.... Now you seem legit.

And other local news papers...
This was probably 15 years ago. Creflo is following in a long line of prosperity hucksters.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

i don't know Sr though
i know Jr and his wife LC
my girl has actually been on that jet (trip to FL with ginuwine and them i believe)
i don't even go to church but i think i know how these mega organizations work mostly from my insight into that specific family

That is hilarious for so many reasons.... I'm sure you have some stories. I didn't know the Cherry's personally, I just sat in their church and watched how it all evolved.
The senior Cherry was always headed to he Bahamas or Florida on that jet.. I'm like, "Don't people need "the word" in less hospitable places?" Lol

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

he was a member a couple of years ago and in tight with the cherrys
my FIL is essentially 2nd in command from an operational standpoint (runs a satellite branch, on the board, oversees the treasury and some other departments) so my wife was in that church for the majority of her life
i knew they split off from an AME church but i never thought about the implications you mentioned above. any ammo i can get for when i get into it with them about me not being a church dude are helpful though
them being non denominational is one of the things my FIL tried to sell me on once upon a time

Hard earned pennies.

That does not impact me at all.

I sure won't donate one red cent to that fool.

This is a non issue to me. I can't beleive ppl really rode hard for this guy. In this very post !! Smh

Bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Sheep

college park, georgia, is overwhelmingly poor (37% of residents live below the poverty line, average income is $30k/yr-- 43% below national average) and overwhelmingly black (82%).

largely from this community, pastor dollar is attempting to extract $65 million to fund what bloomberg has called "gulfstream's holy grail of private jets," essentially a flying rolls-royce (pastor dollar already owns two of the driving kind). he will use it to travel the world collecting six-figure speaking fees.

jesus was a homeless preacher (luke 9:58) who walked the countryside spreading the gospel, speaking out against the immoral rich, and taking nothing from his followers (except once-- he took five loaves and two fish, which he used to feed a crowd that had gathered to hear him speak). he never once passed a collection plate. he owned nothing. his only recorded outburst of anger was in response to people using the church as a place of commerce. it is one of only 11 events recorded in all four gospels.

so the question isn't whether the pastor of a nonprofit church based in college park, georgia, should be driving a rolls-royce, flying in a G6 paid for by his followers, and charging six-figure speaking fees to share the gospel. the question is how obscenely profane is it that he's doing it in the name of jesus. the question is how anyone could possibly consider that person to be christ-like.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UIobdRNLNek

My father is the pastor at one of the biggest black churches in one of the biggest black cities in America. Years ago he was one of the speakers at a conference North of San Francisco at which Eddie Long was the keynote. The conference was designed to bring white and black evangelicals together. The audience was primarily white and primarily working class.

So Eddie is giving his keynote address on the final night of the conference and during his speech his wife interrupts him because she got 'a message from God'. He tells her 'Baby, I'm going to finish this speech, then you can tell the people what God told you.' Which is fucking hilarious because who tells someone who got a message from God 'Hold on, let me finish'. But that's besides the point. He finishes his message and it's his wife's turn to address the crowd and reveal to them (a couple hundred people if I recall many of which were young people there for the youth ministry) what God had told her just a few minutes ago. She tells us that God told her to have all the members of the youth ministry (about 30 young adults) to line up in front of the stage with a bag. She continued on that God told her that we were going to fill each of the 30 or so bags with $1,000 and we'd do so by being split into groups, one bag per group and have 30 minutes to fill every single bag with a thousand dollars. I can't recall what God told her the money was to be used for if it was going to the host church or to line Long's oversized suitcoat pockets or a little from column A column B. I do know she said "Go" and it was a frenzy to fill those bags.

30 minutes later, those bags were filled with cash and checks equalling 1,000 each from the pockets of hardworking, largely working class to poor people. It was one of the craziest and saddest things I've ever seen in my life. It was a straight up stick up minus the guns and ski masks. But who needs guns and ski masks when you've got a silver tongue, a shiny suit and Jesus?

because peer pressure is a motherfucker. My father, to my limited knowledge hasn't employed the same tactics although he's done plenty of things in the name of Jesus (and not in the name of Jesus) that are questionable.

A more direct answer to your question was I don't think my dad was as unnerved by it as I was. I think there was a certain degree of professional friction between them, although they were all "Doc this, doc that" in person, that comes with being in two different stratospheres. My dad is a better human being, better preacher and smarter man than Long but lacks his ability hustle people out of their hard-earned cash the way Long did/does. I am thankful for that.

so when all Long's dirty ass laundry started to come out I was like 'figures'
although the lacefront and smedium shirts were a dead giveaway

>
>although the lacefront and smedium shirts were a dead
>giveaway

Which is fucking hilarious because who tells
>someone who got a message from God 'Hold on, let me finish'.

Hilarious.

"in one of the biggest black cities in America"

no shade but you think he's not on that same shit?

Kanye

and we'll get to that in a minute, but back to what i was saying.

https://youtu.be/F-hhaNxnSmA?t=58s

Noooo questions! Just give da money..


Greatest church scene in a movie ever !!

Virgin Airlines if he is with his momma

and hold you hostage until they raise enough money to make God happy.

She was around 15 and went with her cousins and a few friends. She said,they were in there from 9AM until 3 or 4 in the afternoon. When she tried to leave they refused to unlock the doors. She ended up going to the bathroom and climbing out of the window to escape.

But that aint the end of the story...

a few years later the pastor gets arrested for fraud and transporting drugs in coffins like in American Ganster. He goes to jail but gets work release on weekends to preach and the congregation stands by him.

but this aint the end of the story...

flash forward a few years and I'm in Richmond, VA at VCU. My wife tells me her friend belongs to a crazy church (same one I mentioned up top) and tells me they want a mural painted and will pay.

I start painting and one day this Prohpet shows up dipped in gold looking like Shabbah Ranks. The pastors wife starts singing while he is looking at my work and she tells me to bow to the prophet. I look at her like she is crazy...

I move to a Philly... this niggas check BOUNCES. I go back to Richmond for other shit and while there I go to get my money. Dude drives me to the bank and tells me I'm living in sin because I live with my SO. whatever. I ask him what denomination is this church. Baptist? no...Methodist? no... Pentacostal? no... Cath???? No!!! He gets angry and screams "ITS JUST CHURCH OF GOD!!!"

Then he asked where I'm from and I tell him one side of my fam is from Sewickley, the other side is from Aliquippa. His eyes light up... dun dun dun... "oh, have you heard of Church in the Round?" He knows the pastors son from theology school and they are GREAT FRIENDS. "Ohhhh, okay, now it all makes sense." and give him a look that said " nigga, who you foolin?"

He gives me money but not before this long ass speech about none of us being blessed by God and only his sons were blessed because he was blessed. blah, blah, blah...

All them niggas crazy

hand the money to you.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/essdd5/chappelle-s-show-pitches--man--pitches---uncensored

harder and harder

and for a ransom. anyone there could have and should have reported it.

...a la Martin.

that people who don't tithe should be dragged out into the street and shot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDNxZcOa8

(and YES, THAT IS HIS VOICE SAYING THAT)

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

Dollar: But I’m telling you man, if it wasn’t for the blood there would be a whole lot of us being stoned and being in hell right now over the tithe. But for the blood of Jesus we’d be doomed.

Dollar: I thought about, when we first built the dome, I wanted to put some of those moving bars and give everybody a little card and they stick it into a little computer slot. And, if they were tithing, beautiful music would go off and you would hear “Welcome, welcome, welcome to the world dome.”

Dollar: But, if they were non-tithers, the bar would lock up, the red and blue lights would start going, the sirens would go off and a voice would go off throughout the entire dome “Crook, crook, crook, crook.”

Dollar: Security would go and apprehend them and, once we got them all together, we would line them all up in the front and pass out Oozies by the ushers. We’d point the Oozies right at all those non-tithing members ‘cause we want God to come to church …”

Dollar: And we’d take them out the side door there, have a big hole and bury them. And then we’d have church and have the anointing.

Dollar: If you take time to tithe the tithe correctly, it is impossible to go to hell.


This nigga would be a warlord if he could.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

Dollar: Security would go and apprehend them and, once we got them all together, we would line them all up in the front and pass out Oozies by the ushers. We’d point the Oozies right at all those non-tithing members ‘cause we want God to come to church …”


>>>>>>>Dollar: … and, at the count of three “Jesuses” we’d shoot them all dead.<<<<<


Dollar: And we’d take them out the side door there, have a big hole and bury them. And then we’d have church and have the anointing.




___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

I heard that audio a while ago, sounds like creflo dollar to me. I always wondered why this didnt get more press.

I think you mean uzi ;-)

I have no idea why in the world this didn't get coverage.
The man basically admitted he's a psychopath of the highest order.
I guess it's not that uncommon for people running these types of organizations to be psychopaths but it's still unnerving to hear it expressed like that.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>I have no idea why in the world this didn't get coverage.
>The man basically admitted he's a psychopath of the highest
>order.
>I guess it's not that uncommon for people running these types
>of organizations to be psychopaths but it's still unnerving to
>hear it expressed like that.

With these kinds of people. I've seen thinly and not so thinly veiled threats of violence on these boards as well from Christians who buy into this kind of ministry.

It was no surprise when Dollar was charged with assault, on his daughter no less.

>that people who don't tithe should be dragged out into the
>street and shot
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDNxZcOa8
>
>(and YES, THAT IS HIS VOICE SAYING THAT)

I see why he stop respondin lol

dictator would say. Religion just makes otherwise adequately intelligent people into morons(the followers not the psychopaths). It takes away simple observational skills that would be thought common sense if the person's mind wasn't corrupted.

and I don't want to be, I really don't. But damn....

believe in the anti-christ

:/

but for some reason, i'm finding it difficult to believe this

>but for some reason, i'm finding it difficult to believe
>this

That's good enough for me.

>>but for some reason, i'm finding it difficult to believe
>>this
>
>That's good enough for me.

One reverend to another, it seems.

Sounds like Creflo needs a C130 cargo plane, o busted ass hustling negro

Pilot Rips Claim by Creflo Dollar Ministries That It Needs $65 Million Luxury Airplane to Carry '100,000 Pounds of Food'

http://www.christianpost.com/news/pilot-rips-claim-by-creflo-dollar-ministries-that-it-needs-65-million-luxury-airplane-to-carry-100000-pounds-of-food-135671/

Even with plenty of people, like some in this post, prepared to carry that load on his behalf, he still needs that extra luggage. Don't forget the ego has to fit in there too.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

Some of you may be too young to remember this (ahem) but in 1987, Oral Roberts told his followers that if they didn't give him $100, God would kill him

http://www.truthmagazine.com/archives/volume31/GOT031040.html

He went to Oral Roberts' college...
Oral Roberts is the main one who started this whole concept that God wont bless parishioners that don't give tithes.... Creflo has a whole sermon about how God can't hear your prayers if you don't give tithes.... It's like these bammas never heard of indulgences or Martin Luther.
It's so sad...
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>He went to Oral Roberts' college...

Yes, that would explain it lol

>Oral Roberts is the main one who started this whole concept
>that God wont bless parishioners that don't give tithes....
>Creflo has a whole sermon about how God can't hear your
>prayers if you don't give tithes.... It's like these bammas
>never heard of indulgences or Martin Luther.
>It's so sad...
>

Indeed it is.

god damn Sarah

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

It's not hard to connect the dots...most people just don't want to.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>It's not hard to connect the dots...most people just don't
>want to.


Seeing it right in this post.

Like just the sheer audacity.

Was dude even SICK at the time he claimed this mess?!?

It's funnier to imagine him making his claim that God is going to kill him if he was perfectly healthy at the time.

I'm mad at any dummy who fell for THAT

shit I remember that

though I thought it was one of them other dudes.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

Is Creflo even worth 60 million himself? Can't 60 million be better spent elsewhere? How many kids could that educate? How many people can that feed? House? Train for being working productive citizens for certain job skills/certifications that's in demand by employers?

The whole prosperity thing I'm iffy on, translating it to how one can be productive with something tangible is where this all feels iffy for me. Thus, I'm just reading this whole thing and just like...
http://i.imgur.com/01EvU3V.gif

>http://i.imgur.com/01EvU3V.gif

to 'spread the Gospel"?

I'm sure there's plenty of people right there in Atlanta that Creflo Dollar to could "minister" to. Why not start there?

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Yeah, I'm sure that someone will still complain about a ministry that they do see present. ^^Shoulder Shrug.^^





http://www.worldchangers.org/Ministries.aspx?p=1

Ministries
World Changers has several ministries designed to encourage and equip every member of your family. Whether you are married or single, a man or woman of any age, student or a child, we have a ministry designed just for you.



Children's Ministry
Promotes fun while building character and teaching children 12 years old and younger the fundamental principles of Christianity. More... http://www.worldchangers.org/ACC/index.html



Radical Women’s Ministry
As sisters in one Body, our mission is to see every woman develop into the fullness of the virtuous woman God intended for her to be.More.. http://www.radical-women.org/



Prestige
A program designed to help empower and build the self-esteem and self-worth of women who are involved in the sex industry, including, but not limited to, prostitutes and exotic dancers. More.. http://ladyofprestige.org/



Body Sculpting Center
This department promotes the development of a personal fitness regimen and healthy lifestyle for its participants. In addition to nutritional counseling, training and the frequent seminars hosted by nutritionists and certified trainers, individuals may also participate in step aerobics, body sculpting classes (weight training), cardio kickboxing, running and walking.More... http://www.worldchangers.org/Body-Sculpting.aspx



Bondage Breakers
A group therapy program geared toward individuals who struggle with alcohol and drug dependency. With patience, determination and assistance from program graduates, individuals and their family members strive to uncover and understand the reasons behind the addictions and work through the issues that affect the users and their loved ones. Annual seminars focus on training and educating facilitators and family members in the spiritual and clinical treatment of addicts.

Boy Scouts
A World Changers Church International (WCCI) chartered Boy Scouts chapter uses a hands-on approach to build character in boys and young men through activities that promote teamwork, initiative, creativity and problem-solving and those that cover citizenship, first-aid, outdoor survival and the development of a personal fitness program. Three times a month, Boy Scouts participate in organized events such as camping retreats.

Boys Mentoring
This program is geared toward boys 6-18 years old who come from single-parent homes. It provides the boys with a positive male role model who can impart wisdom and teach them the practical life skills that will enable them to succeed.

Families & Mentors (FAM)
A mentoring program for families who live in low-income communities and receive government assistance. Through training and counseling, FAM assists these families in becoming self-sufficient.

Financial Resources
A network of professionals that offers a variety of services to the community, such as biweekly financial workshops, tax return preparation assistance, personal financial counseling, and informative workshops and seminars designed to educate and empower individuals to make wise financial decisions.

G.E.D. Preparation
In a classroom setting, students with a ninth to 12th grade reading level master the skills needed to pass the high-school equivalency test (GED) and receive a high school diploma. Students must take assessment tests at the beginning and at the end of the program.

General Tutorial
Offers tutorial services on Mondays and Saturdays to students in grades K-12 needing assistance in Reading, Math, English and SAT preparation.

Girls Mentoring
This program is geared toward girls 6-18 years old who come from single-parent homes. It provides the girls with a positive female role model who can impart wisdom and teach them the practical life skills that will enable them to succeed.

Home School Fellowship
Provides opportunities for parents who home-school their children to come together to solve problems, share ideas and enjoy fun activities with their children such as field trips and seminars. Families may also register for elective classes to supplement their curricula of choice.

Housing Resources
A network of mortgage brokers, real estate agents and bank representatives that offers information, assistance, resources and personal consultations to individuals and families desiring to improve their current housing status.

The Judah Generation
This program transports children from surrounding Metro-Atlanta communities to the World Changers Ministries (WCM) campus for the Super Saturday church service. Children are fed breakfast and are then taught basic biblical principles through a variety of fun-filled activities geared toward their specific age-range. Judah Generation, through creative and biblically sound methods, instills positive values in children. As such, parents, community leaders and law enforcement officials have seen a tremendous change for the better in the areas where these children live.

Legal Resources
A group of legal professionals that empowers individuals with a clear understanding of their rights and responsibilities. Complimentary services include consultations, dispute resolution and seminars that address specific legal issues.

Men's Fellowship
Our mission is to develop strong friendships and accountability among the men of World Changers Church International through regular gatherings and group interaction, and ultimately build the character of Jesus Christ into every man who involves himself with the Men’s Fellowship.

Ministry of Resources
Provides a point of contact to those with social service needs. Resource coordinators assist these individuals in acquiring resources such as food, clothing and shelter through financial counseling and aid, Discount Buying Club purchases and the WCCI Thrift Store.

Mothers of Preschoolers(MOPS)
MOPS is a ministry program for stay-at-home mothers of children five years old and younger. With the encouragement, support and friendship of other mothers in the program, coupled with educational tools and life skills training, these women learn how to augment their skills as mothers, enhance their relationships with their spouses and strengthen their Christian beliefs. Individuals are also assigned to specific discussion groups tailored to their interests or needs. In addition, during these meetings, the children are cared for through the MOPPETS program

Nursing Home Ministry
Conducts weekly visits to those residing in nursing homes and provides individual and group counseling. Gifts are also distributed during the holiday season.

Operation Nehemiah
A coalition of independent and professional contractors, plumbers, electricians, painters and general laborers that volunteer their time and skills to assist elderly and handicapped individuals in need of home repair.

Overcomers Ministry
A group therapy approach to developing wholeness in the lives of homosexuals and bisexuals. It is a vehicle to help individuals discover and understand their true identity according to the Word of God.

Pre-G.E.D. Preparation
With the help of tutors, students with a fifth to eighth grade reading level master the skills needed to advance to the GED Preparation program.

Prison Ministry
This program brings compassion, caring and church services to inmates in correctional facilities throughout the southeastern and southwestern United States. It offers group and individual counseling as well as encouragement through written correspondence. In addition, WCCI donates books, tapes and Bibles for the spiritual and mental edification of prisoners.

Victory in Education
Promotes academic advancement through a variety of programs and offers assistance in Reading, Math, English and SAT Preparation.



***************************


Departments aka Ventures :

Creflo Dollar Ministries (CDM) Teaching the Word of God with simplicity and understanding is the goal of Creflo and Taffi Dollar. Both believe that the Bible is the written and inspired Word of God. Their purpose is to invoke change in the lives of people across the globe. Creflo and Taffi's desire and vision is for all to hear the Word and gain understanding of God's love and promises. With this global vision, Creflo Dollar Ministries (CDM) functions as the helm of the outreach for World Changers Church International. http://www.creflodollarministries.org/


World Changers Church - New York (WCC-NY) is pastored by Creflo A. and Taffi L. Dollar. The church was born out of their passion for the Word of God and for the people in the greater New York area. Children's ministry will be available at the onset of the church; other ministries designed to meet the needs of the New York members will be added as the church grows, and develops its base of committed volunteers. http://www.worldchangerschurchnewyork.org/


The Creflo Dollar Ministerial Association (CDMA) understands the importance of fellowship and maximizing your ministry's vision. You can think of us as a global network for ministers. Dr. Dollar established this organization so that ministries can assist each other in delivering the Word of God with simplicity and understanding. http://interactive.creflodollarministries.org/cdma/


Arrow Records
An affiliate of Creflo Dollar Ministries, is a Word-based record company located in College Park, Georgia. Established in 1998, our mission is to restore gospel music back to its original purpose-to usher in the power and presence of God in order to encourage the brokenhearted, heal the sick, deliver the captive and save the lost. http://www.arrow-records.com/


New Change Early Learning Center
Our daily mission here at New Change Early Learning Center is to enhance character, train and mold our children’s future, spiritually and academically, making a mark in their lives, and those in whom they come in contact with, making a mark that cannot be erased. http://www.worldchangers.org/NCELC.aspx




***********************


Missions by CDM

http://missions.creflodollarministries.org/






.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

It's that classic white businessman's defense. If the crime's white collar and I give enough to charity I should get a pass and be free from criticism.

Another in a long stream of cop outs.

>It's that classic white businessman's defense. If the crime's
>white collar and I give enough to charity I should get a pass
>and be free from criticism.
>



Where can we find this move call the "classic white businessman's defense"? No. Don't answer because there's no such thing. But anyway, I made the response, no to debate or defense, but rather to help dispel lies that WCCI and CDM don't do anything for the community that it serves.

The fact is the church and Church Universal is not a single person, it is a collection of sinners that have been save by grace. Nevertheless, response addresses the lies and myths that Rev. Dollars does nothing for the community.


>Another in a long stream of cop outs.

Not even close.


Have a good day. No response will follow.







.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Another in a long stream of cop outs.

>>It's that classic white businessman's defense. If the
>crime's
>>white collar and I give enough to charity I should get a
>pass
>>and be free from criticism.
>>
>
>
>
>Where can we find this move call the "classic white
>businessman's defense"? No. Don't answer because there's no
>such thing. But anyway, I made the response, no to debate or
>defense, but rather to help dispel lies that WCCI and CDM
>don't do anything for the community that it serves.

No. It was to deflect what's being actually said because you can't address it in anything other than a cop out.

Of course you don't want an answer, because like so many other times, you're too busy fleeing. Depart from me.

>
>The fact is the church and Church Universal is not a single
>person, it is a collection of sinners that have been save by
>grace. Nevertheless, response addresses the lies and myths
>that Rev. Dollars does nothing for the community.
>

This is a post about excess in the church; in particular, a jet. If you weren't so busy deflecting and copping out, you'd see how irrelevant your response is.

>
>>Another in a long stream of cop outs.
>
>Not even close.
>
>
>Have a good day. No response will follow.

Classic cop out Case.

It's My Prerogative!

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

... so what's really your point here???

Matthew 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Just 'cause Creflo and 'nem did a few good things, it doesn't mean that they're doing God's work or are destined for Heaven.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

My point addressed the accusation that WCCI and CDM does nothing for the community that it serves.

I said that in the post.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>My point addressed the accusation that WCCI and CDM does
>nothing for the community that it serves.
>
>I said that in the post.
>

If anyone would like to show where someone in this post said "WCCI and CDM does nothing for the community that it serves". I'd like to see it.

But really, this is just a weak attempt to deflect on what people are really talking about, and that is how the money could be *better* spent in an organisation out to make the most of their donations to do good in the community.

I notice how my first posting of Matthew 7 (and Timothy 1) went ignored.

His "works" are meaningless if they happen because of evil ways. In this way, I liken him to the Cartels.

As it relates directly to the scripture, what I've posted deals directly with Creflo and his colleagues. Though you may fly across the planet and spread the word of God, his opulent lifestyle and the truth in his heart are what will prevent him from Glory.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

they are ministries that do great and valuable service in the communities that they serve. How about folks ask the people that have benefited from the support of WCCI and CDM and tell them that they are being served by a devil or an awful person.

Again, I posted a response the the "claim" that WWCI and CDM does nothing for the community, because in conjunction about the price of a Plane, people are saying that the ministry does nothing for the community. Negating all the work that people do in support of those many ministry efforts, just because people don't like the MAN is unjust.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>they are ministries that do great and valuable service in the
>communities that they serve. How about folks ask the people
>that have benefited from the support of WCCI and CDM and tell
>them that they are being served by a devil or an awful
>person.

This is also the reason that people in numerous Mexican states refuse to drop a dime on the cartels that operate in their areas. They benefit from the support of Los Zetas, Juarez, Sinaloa, and others. How you gonna turn against the people that just built your town a new health clinic, roads, or something else.

>
>Again, I posted a response the the "claim" that WWCI and CDM
>does nothing for the community, because in conjunction about
>the price of a Plane, people are saying that the ministry does
>nothing for the community. Negating all the work that people
>do in support of those many ministry efforts, just because
>people don't like the MAN is unjust.

The man is representative of the ministry... dare I say the face and all that encompasses it. You really cannot separate the two.

>"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

to a man that articulated to the people.

Look, Doc, you keep dragging unrelated matters and examples into the convo trying to justify your opinion - and that's all that it is. No matter what I say you are going to do you best to counter the response. We are only discussing opinions.

My response today was simply to prove that WCCI and CDM does support its community. I don't have a problem beyond. That, so let's stop pretending like we are going to agree. You have your eyes set.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>... so what's really your point here???
>
>Matthew 7:22-23
>
>22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
>prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils?
>and in thy name done many wonderful works?
>
>23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
>from me, ye that work iniquity.
>
>Just 'cause Creflo and 'nem did a few good things, it doesn't
>mean that they're doing God's work or are destined for
>Heaven.
>

No.




~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

But y'all can play slow, but we know that you're just playing.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

and this serves to further have you embarrass yourself

you should be ashamed
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

should be ashamed of - until then I really and honestly don't care about what you think about me.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

and on this board is enough

your stinky foul shoes aren't needed
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

You don't know me or anything about me. You can for an opinion about me just because I didn't see anything wrong with CDM asking for any about of money. $1 to $1 billion I could care less. I'm looking at the end results not some short-term BS about money and ignorance.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

not so he can spread the word.

you know just as well as anyone else here that he could spread the gospel with a cheaper plane. but he chooses not to.

why?

cuz he's a crook.

why you lying to yourself? whats in it for you?

Do you really know an actual poor person that gave Rev. Dollar any money?

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

much like how you rep christians

the end result is money suckered out of people
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Remember this....
http://i.imgur.com/cpjwv78.jpg





___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

smh...Case i really thought more of you my friend

problem with a pastor asking for donations (by willing people) to purchase a plane.

>smh...Case i really thought more of you my friend


Forgive me. And Pray for me.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Here's the issues for me. People are acting as if Rev. Dollar took 60 mil and lied about what it was for. People are claiming that the man's ministries do nothing in the community and those accusations are false.

See the issue isn't the object, it's the who and most of all it's the money, because people are more focused on the money (the love of which has tainted their reality) then they are on the ministry and its actually works.

If Rev. Dollar has asked for X number of people to help raise 100 Mil for a Multi-purposed campus site with schools, clinics, housing, etc., people wouldn't being jumping up an down and donating. Not one soul on OKP would be donating (pure speculation). They would still be complaining, because of the MONEY.





.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

I used to go to Vinyard church in Ann Arbor, MI, then in Phoenix, AZ. At both churches, our pastor was a regular dude. In Ann Arbor, our pastor worked 40+ hours a week at a plant near Detroit. He drove a Saturn. His house was -smaller- than mine at the time. His message was one of salvation through Jesus and NOTHING ELSE. There was no talk of financial prosperity through the word or anything else like it. Many in the congregation drove nicer cars than him, wore "better" clothes, and lived in bigger houses and he didn't care one bit; his calling was to spread the word in that community and nothing more. He didn't take a DIME from the church or buy himself nice things in the name of the church as Creflo and his ilk do. He didn't command tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for speaking engagements.

He was a simple dude that found his calling and did it without compromising what it meant to be a man of God. He did not distort it for financial gain even though he could have easily.

The same held true for the pastor of the Phoenix Vinyard church. The pastor worked a 9-5, drove a "normal" car (I want to say an Accord, but I can't remember), and like his colleague in Ann Arbor, took NOTHING from the church.

The church's money was used for nothing more than the church's work. Not for buying helicopters, mansions, jets, luxury cars or expensive clothes. No, the money is used very strictly to help the community without a single dime going to benefit the pastor or those running the church.

This is a stark contrast to Creflo's use of church money. When the Word itself instructs us not to aspire to a life of opulent wealth, how can you justify Creflo's lifestyle? How does one justify the purchase of an airplane for a church where many of his members are fairly low on the totem pole when it comes to income?

I can't find anything in the scripture that could possibly justify Creflo's lifestyle or this purchase.

Can you?
---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

>I used to go to Vinyard church in Ann Arbor, MI, then in
>Phoenix, AZ. At both churches, our pastor was a regular dude.
>In Ann Arbor, our pastor worked 40+ hours a week at a plant
>near Detroit. He drove a Saturn. His house was -smaller- than
>mine at the time. His message was one of salvation through
>Jesus and NOTHING ELSE. There was no talk of financial
>prosperity through the word or anything else like it. Many in
>the congregation drove nicer cars than him, wore "better"
>clothes, and lived in bigger houses and he didn't care one
>bit; his calling was to spread the word in that community and
>nothing more. He didn't take a DIME from the church or buy
>himself nice things in the name of the church as Creflo and
>his ilk do. He didn't command tens or hundreds of thousands of
>dollars for speaking engagements.
>
>He was a simple dude that found his calling and did it without
>compromising what it meant to be a man of God. He did not
>distort it for financial gain even though he could have
>easily.
>
>The same held true for the pastor of the Phoenix Vinyard
>church. The pastor worked a 9-5, drove a "normal" car (I want
>to say an Accord, but I can't remember), and like his
>colleague in Ann Arbor, took NOTHING from the church.
>
>The church's money was used for nothing more than the church's
>work. Not for buying helicopters, mansions, jets, luxury cars
>or expensive clothes. No, the money is used very strictly to
>help the community without a single dime going to benefit the
>pastor or those running the church.
>
>This is a stark contrast to Creflo's use of church money. When
>the Word itself instructs us not to aspire to a life of
>opulent wealth, how can you justify Creflo's lifestyle? How
>does one justify the purchase of an airplane for a church
>where many of his members are fairly low on the totem pole
>when it comes to income?
>
>I can't find anything in the scripture that could possibly
>justify Creflo's lifestyle or this purchase.
>
>Can you?



Bro, based on what you provided, I think that your pastor at Vinyard church in Ann Arbor, MI, is awesome person. I don't have anything to say about him, because I don't know him beyond your words. I don't know the Assignment on his life or the level of Anointing on this life. And with that said, no once can judge or compare pastors and their callings based on our own assumptions. Thus, every Pastor is not called to the same level of ministry as far as territory of outreach or ability. But they are all called to preach the Bible. And I will say this for me, I have never not heard Creflo preach anything contrary to the Bible.

As for salary, let help you with this, Creflo doesn't take a salary from WCCI. Did you know that? Some pastors have to be Bi-Vocational, but I can guarantee that no pastor want's to work a 9 to 5n in conjunction with overseeing a flock, because they would rather spend more time dedicated to the Church and ministry. And not all churches are the same or have the sam mission beyond spreading the Gospel, baptizing the redeemed, and making disciples.

As for what I can find in the Bible, I can find anything in the Bible the contradicts what i have see the brother do to help change lives for God. And all I've ever seen him preach is Jesus and Him Crucified.

But like I said before in another response is people are focused on the Money because they are blinded by the stuff, things and money that other people have.

If you really want to know about the man then you should take time to really listen to a few of his sermons and Bible Studies.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>
>As for what I can find in the Bible, I can find anything in
>the Bible the contradicts what i have see the brother do to
>help change lives for God. And all I've ever seen him preach
>is Jesus and Him Crucified.
>
>
>If you really want to know about the man then you should take
>time to really listen to a few of his sermons and Bible
>Studies.

And wants to accuse others of being blind.

"When the Word itself instructs us not to aspire to a life of opulent wealth, how can you justify Creflo's lifestyle? "

>"When the Word itself instructs us not to aspire to a life of
>opulent wealth, how can you justify Creflo's lifestyle? "


See the problem is that people this that wealth and material things corrupts the heart, but they don't. The love of Money is the Root of all evil, not the money or the things. And with that said, we don't know Rev. Dollar's heart. And Word also tells us to judge a person by their fruit and that man has been a blessing all over the world with ministry efforts and ministries of support, encouragement, healing, feeding, education, and supply. All people are doing is focusing on the issue that lis present in their heart that stem from their perception and love of money.


BTW Jesus talked more about money in the NT than any other subject and it was not the evil that comes from money, but who the money really belongs to - GOD.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

theres a big difference in behavior btwn someone who loves money vs someone who does not. a big difference btwn a minister who lives simply vs one who lives ostentatiously.

lol @ "we dont know his heart." people do all kinds of dirt and then say, "only God knows my heart." NO--we SHOW whats in our hearts by our actions...this fruit that you speak of. the message CD sends to the world is all about the love of money.

its clear from this post (and the backlash from his campaign) that CD and others like him have turned A LOT of people away from Christianity. probably more than they have brought to it. that's his fruit.

And it's clear that we have a different opinion and stance. I'm not focusing on a plane or the money because it all belongs to God and whoever mismanages it will have to answer to him on that day. So, why continue to debate the matter. At the end of the day we (christians) are all sinners who have saved by grace. I'm not going to keep debating the matter of CDM because what has been gained? Look at this post and tell me how has the kingdom been advanced. People are so hateful that they are even unwilling to have a respectful dialog about differences without disrespecting others in this community or even Rev. Dollar.

It's ok to protest about a point or position or belief. But at the end of the day we are still people - fallible and weak, but we should still try to love one another as such.

There is too much hate in this place and too much unresolved personal life animosity at times. Still like I said. I'm not going to continue because most people don't want to have a real discussion they just want to be nasty, mean, slick, and hurtful to anyone that doesn't ascribe to their viewpoint.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

so why do you keep bringing that up???

you're not answering simple questions, dude. you're typing a lot, making lots of excuses, and generally not making any points. like 2% of what you said in your reply above related to what I said.

CD is turning people away from Christianity. thats a fact. that's his fruit. you won't address that. you'll continue to say he's a great minister. you're EXCUSING his behavior which is in direct contrast to the word of God. THAT also turns people away from Christianity.

it's actually pretty sad.

>so why do you keep bringing that up???
>
>you're not answering simple questions, dude. you're typing a
>lot, making lots of excuses, and generally not making any
>points. like 2% of what you said in your reply above related
>to what I said.
>
>CD is turning people away from Christianity. thats a fact.
>that's his fruit. you won't address that. you'll continue to
>say he's a great minister. you're EXCUSING his behavior which
>is in direct contrast to the word of God. THAT also turns
>people away from Christianity.
>
>it's actually pretty sad.
>

A lot of people, included me, started like this with Case_One. Took it to the inbox, tried to keep it civil, but became exasperated with the level of copping out and condescension. It's symptomatic of the kind of approach that drives Christians from Jesus and non-Christians from interacting freely with us.

The extent to which church leaders can hurt the faithful was a strong theme of Jesus' time on earth, and definitely got Him mad. I think Christians ought to do better than copping out in the face of poor behaviour from fellow Christians, or condoning the promotion of such viewpoints with silence.

im baffled and exasperated.

which makes me then wonder how he's supposedly leading others to a better place/plane

and to top it off - he seems to think its ok to be hurtful toward others.
even using stuff that people told him in confidentiality, it seems
i mean.
its incredible

Plus a real element of willful ignorance IMO.

>which makes me then wonder how he's supposedly leading others
>to a better place/plane

There's a part of him that seems to revel in the idea of people going to hell, thus his delight in calling me the Devil('s son/junior). So you get a vicious cycle that's designed to antagonise people and put them off the faith, so that they can also go to hell, and he can take satisfaction from looking down on them.

I am a very critical person. But I don't delight in the idea of any of others to hell. I'd rather have a person truly repent and change. To me that's the greatest revenge. To have to carry the realisation of what you've done and how that's hurt others is a heavy burden, and one that is worthy of forgiveness if the you're truly repentant, and can extend that grace to others.

>
>and to top it off - he seems to think its ok to be hurtful
>toward others.

That's part of the MO for that brand of Christianity in general though. Fox News style Christianity. Great for ratings (and bringing in the money) but poor for the faith/community.

>even using stuff that people told him in confidentiality, it
>seems
>i mean.
>its incredible

Especially how he holds himself out on here. It's one thing if I inbox some personal details to one of the resident trolls and get burned. But when you're trying to hold yourself out as a mature leader, it does increase the sense of betrayal.

>which makes me then wonder how he's supposedly leading others
>to a better place/plane
>
>and to top it off - he seems to think its ok to be hurtful
>toward others.
>even using stuff that people told him in confidentiality, it
>seems
>i mean.
>its incredible

Yep, that's where the calling me by my real name on the boards comes from.

So, that's why I brought it up. I don't mind talking to you,but it's hard to have a good conversation when you have people that run behind every potential dialog trying to interject false narratives and lies.

Let's have a good conversation later in another post.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

mean and spiteful just because you have nothing to say
and at the same time are also trying to play some persecuted complex
its not working

you cant be going around telling people they are not real men, or are hypoctrites, or have limited world views, or are the devil
and also be bringing up people's personal shit
(i dont know if its this post or another where you brought up a posters offline name and depression/ life struggles. either way do better)
then turn around and act like you are innocent
or that just because you get all creepy with the 'i love yous
its supposed to make things all better
this is neither sunday school nor kindergarten

remove that log, its blinding you

do better.


>
>There is too much hate in this place and too much unresolved
>personal life animosity at times. Still like I said. I'm not
>going to continue because most people don't want to have a
>real discussion they just want to be nasty, mean, slick, and
>hurtful to anyone that doesn't ascribe to their viewpoint.
>

>Here's the issues for me. People are acting as if Rev. Dollar
>took 60 mil and lied about what it was for. People are
>claiming that the man's ministries do nothing in the community
>and those accusations are false.
>
>See the issue isn't the object, it's the who and most of all
>it's the money, because people are more focused on the money
>(the love of which has tainted their reality)

Are you fucking serious right now????? The only one who's love of money has tainted reality is CREFLO DOLLAR.

then they are on
>the ministry and its actually works.
>
>If Rev. Dollar has asked for X number of people to help raise
>100 Mil for a Multi-purposed campus site with schools,
>clinics, housing, etc., people wouldn't being jumping up an
>down and donating. Not one soul on OKP would be donating (pure
>speculation). They would still be complaining, because of the
>MONEY.


Just admit you want to be a rich hustla preacher like Dollar and get it over with

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>
>.
>.
>.
>"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

theyd do it, so why not ask for money for several of those sites across the country???? not some plane thats going to benefit no one but him...we have waay more problems right in his own backyard



>
>If Rev. Dollar has asked for X number of people to help raise
>100 Mil for a Multi-purposed campus site with schools,
>clinics, housing, etc., people wouldn't being jumping up an
>down and donating. Not one soul on OKP would be donating (pure
>speculation). They would still be complaining, because of the
>MONEY.
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>.
>.
>"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

I'm not being funny, but the power of the pen is amazing.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Don't be questioning my manhood, especially when you make a post crying about a dude that unfriended you on Facebook.

Lawd Have Mercy.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>Don't be questioning my manhood, especially when you make a
>post crying about a dude that unfriended you on Facebook.
>
>Lawd Have Mercy. \

lol so defensive, calm down

and me posting that being seen as weak etc to you rev says a lot..reverand lol

>>Don't be questioning my manhood, especially when you make a
>>post crying about a dude that unfriended you on Facebook.
>>
>>Lawd Have Mercy. \
>
>lol so defensive, calm down
>
>and me posting that being seen as weak etc to you rev says a
>lot..reverand lol

You Got ME!



But you are still one of my Favorite posters.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>>>Don't be questioning my manhood, especially when you make
>a
>>>post crying about a dude that unfriended you on Facebook.
>>>
>>>Lawd Have Mercy. \
>>
>>lol so defensive, calm down
>>
>>and me posting that being seen as weak etc to you rev says a
>>lot..reverand lol
>
>
>It says, that the Rev. ain't gonna be whining about my buddy
>cutting out of this FB circle. especially when a direct
>method like CALLING can resolve the matter.
>
>
>
>But you are still one of my Favorite posters.


damn yall lol..it isnt whining..I was being upfront and revealing some perosnal stuff at the risk of ridicule

I cant call, Ill explain sometime later

>>>>Don't be questioning my manhood, especially when you make
>>a
>>>>post crying about a dude that unfriended you on Facebook.
>>>>
>>>>Lawd Have Mercy. \
>>>
>>>lol so defensive, calm down
>>>
>>>and me posting that being seen as weak etc to you rev says
>a
>>>lot..reverand lol
>>
>>
>>It says, that the Rev. ain't gonna be whining about my buddy
>>cutting out of this FB circle. especially when a direct
>>method like CALLING can resolve the matter.
>>
>>
>>
>>But you are still one of my Favorite posters.
>
>
>damn yall lol..it isnt whining..I was being upfront and
>revealing some perosnal stuff at the risk of ridicule
>
>I cant call, Ill explain sometime later


I just pulled the TOKR.. I know, I'am a bad person. But we will be friends again in 5 min.





.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

You religious coon.

You disgrace to the black community.

You slobbering sycophant

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

somebody will smell that coward cologne on him soon enough

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

http://s17.postimg.org/cg1lypf9r/image.jpg

I mean real men don't follow other men from thread to thread making comments trying to get attention. There's just something too School Girlish about his actions. What part of the game is that?

I'm sure that he'll respond to this thread too.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

"So and so is stalking me across the boards"

"So and so follows me around"

"So and so is obsessed with trolling me"

How about sometimes its just someone who has issues with people's bullshit ideas, wildly uninformed opinions, or goal post shiftin hypocrisy?

Short version...maybe it's actually you, and not them.

>
>How about sometimes its just someone who has issues with
>people's bullshit ideas, wildly uninformed opinions, or goal
>post shiftin hypocrisy?
>

>"So and so is stalking me across the boards"
>

For the most part this is true to a fault.

>"So and so follows me around"
>


This is a fact.

>"So and so is obsessed with trolling me"
>

Yeah. This is so adult.

>How about sometimes its just someone who has issues with
>people's bullshit ideas, wildly uninformed opinions, or goal
>post shiftin hypocrisy?
>

If a man has issues then he sorts them out internally first, so that he can frame the right conversation . You don't act like a tween and follow people around looking for a hug and validation.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

If you are gonna type out a whole paragraph about someone, dont pretend you have some high ground to maintain

You dont. This will never not be lame.

>If you are gonna type out a whole paragraph about someone,
>dont pretend you have some high ground to maintain
>
>You dont. This will never not be lame.

The Board knows who it is, He's already responded like a moth to a flame.



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

I just pointed out the sickness that is.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

People like Sarah_Bellum, navajo joe, MME, PoppaGeorge, are not just an effective retort to the whitewashing and plea copping done by Christians on behalf of these practices. It's not just a real life illustration of the kind of people Jesus was talking about in Matthew 23, whose outward appearance seems holy but is rotten within. It's also a sobering reminder that those of us who disagree aren't doing enough to turn the tide on this sort of behaviour, and modelling the alternative.

I've seen people in this thread who I can't help but wonder whether their attitude towards the church would be so much different if it weren't for the Creflo figures in their lives. Even if they weren't to believe whole-heartedly maybe the church would still be seen as a more viable institution for partnership where there was an intersection of social agendas. The church is supposed to do for the least of us, as it would do for Jesus. I don't imagine it being appropriate to ask Jesus for $60 Million for a jet when he has food to put on the table for his family. It's ironic that so many non-Christians in this post view that principle similarly.

The opportunities for collective action are squandered because too many Christians are worried about who gets the credit, rather than the vulnerable who stand to benefit.

Like I said, it's been a sobering reminder.

>People like Sarah_Bellum, navajo joe, MME, PoppaGeorge, are
>not just an effective retort to the whitewashing and plea
>copping done by Christians on behalf of these practices. It's
>not just a real life illustration of the kind of people Jesus
>was talking about in Matthew 23, whose outward appearance
>seems holy but is rotten within. It's also a sobering reminder
>that those of us who disagree aren't doing enough to turn the
>tide on this sort of behaviour, and modelling the alternative.
>
>
>I've seen people in this thread who I can't help but wonder
>whether their attitude towards the church would be so much
>different if it weren't for the Creflo figures in their lives.
>Even if they weren't to believe whole-heartedly maybe the
>church would still be seen as a more viable institution for
>partnership where there was an intersection of social agendas.
>The church is supposed to do for the least of us, as it would
>do for Jesus. I don't imagine it being appropriate to ask
>Jesus for $60 Million for a jet when he has food to put on the
>table for his family. It's ironic that so many non-Christians
>in this post view that principle similarly.
>
>The opportunities for collective action are squandered because
>too many Christians are worried about who gets the credit,
>rather than the vulnerable who stand to benefit.
>
>Like I said, it's been a sobering reminder.

i checked out so long ago and every time i check back in its cringeworthy
=(

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and just like that, pastor dollar quickly pulls his hand out of the cookie jar:
http://i.imgur.com/jvsIqgz.gif

i think he realizes his mistake though. he'll have to be much smoother about it next time.


http://www.christianpost.com/news/creflo-dollar-shuts-down-campaign-for-65-million-jet-will-now-focus-on-spreading-the-gospel-135762/

Creflo Dollar Shuts Down Campaign for $65 Million Jet; Will Now Focus on 'Spreading the Gospel'

BY LEONARDO BLAIR, CP REPORTER
March 16, 2015|7:28 pm

After a bruising weekend handling ferocious backlash over his campaign to acquire a $65 million Gulfstream G650 airplane with planned donations of $300 or more from 200,000 people, controversial televangelist and founder of World Changers Church International, Creflo Dollar has completely abandoned the idea and will only consider acquiring one in the future if it's "properly priced."

"There is no campaign right now," said Juda Engelmayer of 5W Public Relations, who represents Creflo Dollar Ministries in an interview with The Christian Post on Monday. The website hosting the campaign page was deactivated last week and an option to donate to the G650 campaign through the Creflo Dollar Ministries website was removed Monday afternoon.

Dollar, who has an international ministry, was banking on raising enough money to buy the luxury jet to replace one owned by his ministry that was significantly damaged in an accident last November.

According to the National Transportation Safety Board, Dollar's "Gulfstream Aerospace G-1159A airplane, N103CD, had a nose landing gear collapse during a runway excursion at the London Biggin Hill Airport (EGKB), near London, United Kingdom," on Nov. 24, 2014, and "the airplane sustained substantial airframe damage."

Since then, Dollar and his staff have been travelling "commercial," an option critics believe he should have simply continued to exercise instead of asking the public for money to purchase the luxury jet. It appears Dollar has somewhat taken that suggestion to heart.

"He's gonna continue traveling commercial. And if and when he obtains another jet it's gonna be used for ministry purposes, just like the current one," said Engelmayer.

When asked if acquiring a jet is still something on the televangelist's radar, Engelmayer said: "If one comes along that is properly priced and is sufficient and workable perhaps, but right now there is nothing that they are looking at."

Asked what the ministry considered a "properly priced" jet, he replied, "I don't know."

Engelmayer further explained that the now broken ministry plane has flown some 4 million miles in 16 years. Most of the trips made in the airplane were national flights. When it was used for international trips, he said, they transported hundreds of thousands of pounds of food and other supplies cumulatively. He was unable, however, to say how much cargo they transported on an annual basis.

"They load the plane up with what it can handle," he said.

Although not saying it in so many words, he acknowledged that the G650 campaign was a bad idea and they are now trying to move on.

"There is no campaign. It's a moot point. The ministry will now focus on spreading the Gospel," he said.

Londoners have NEVER heard of Christianity.

God was apparently so grateful that dude was breaking new Protestant territory in the birthplace of the Reformation in his existing private plane that he smote the shit out of it.

:-/

Nevertheless, I hope that CDM continues to do the good work for the Lord God and Jesus Christ, and that the ministry continues to expand as it impacts and transforms lives for the Kingdom of God.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Was it addressed to me? There are plenty of responses that I haven't commented on, so why is my opinion of #307 (which I have not viewed) even a matter of my character, manhood, salvation, alliance, etc.?

On a side note:
BTW, did you even say thank you when I congratulated you on your new marriage? In fact, you need yo go back and thank everyone because we are genuinely happy for your. And that is a nice video too.






.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

and recheck this post while you are at it bc YES IN FACT, that reply has been addressed to u for the 3rd time in this post...

but may as well take all the Ls and swallow em whole with gusto

>and recheck this post while you are at it bc YES IN FACT,
>that reply has been addressed to u for the 3rd time in this
>post...
>
>but may as well take all the Ls and swallow em whole with
>gusto

NO Playa... The response was not to me.. People can ask me to respond, but I don't have to. Y'all don't respect what I have to say about anything else, so why are y'all lobbing for me to say something about #307?

And the only L's I take have 4 letters like Love, Lord, Life, Live, LMBO,



.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

and more of the same bullshit and hypocrisy

i didn't say u had to respond...

if u don't want to...that's your prerogative...it's telling as fuck lol

i'm not telling u to do anything...u have no problem talking shit about the subject until it takes a turn even u can't play idiotic devil's advocate for...and that's fine

but then u got the gall to try and police my manners

fuck u fam lol

that people who don't respect wanted me to respond to. Gotcha!

And now, based on your analysis I'm illustrating bullshit and hypocrisy because I didn't respond. Gotcha on that too.

>and more of the same bullshit and hypocrisy
>
>i didn't say u had to respond...
>

Yet, you are calling my character into question, because I didn't respond.

>if u don't want to...that's your prerogative...it's telling as
>fuck lol
>


Dude, why do you even care (Yes you do). You don't listen to anything else I have to say on subjects. You are always being an ass towards me and I never treat you that way - ever.



>i'm not telling u to do anything...u have no problem talking
>shit about the subject until it takes a turn even u can't play
>idiotic devil's advocate for...and that's fine
>


And BTW,I don't talk Shit. That would be the games that you like to play. But you should know that me not responding to 1 respond on a 400+ post thread has not impact on who I am as a person or as a member of this community.


>but then u got the gall to try and police my manners
>
>fuck u fam lol


No, Playa, I was asking you to look into that mirror of Hypocrisy that you're holding in your hand. See how that works.


.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>that people who don't respect wanted me to respond to.
>Gotcha!
>
>And now, based on your analysis I'm illustrating bullshit and
>hypocrisy because I didn't respond. Gotcha on that too.
>
>>and more of the same bullshit and hypocrisy
>>
>>i didn't say u had to respond...
>>
>
>Yet, you are calling my character into question, because I
>didn't respond.

>>if u don't want to...that's your prerogative...it's telling
>as
>>fuck lol
>>
>
>
>Dude, why do you even care (Yes you do). You don't listen to
>anything else I have to say on subjects. You are always being
>an ass towards me and I never treat you that way - ever.
>
>

the same reason you are still responding...bc i don't care any less than u...

>
>>i'm not telling u to do anything...u have no problem talking
>>shit about the subject until it takes a turn even u can't
>play
>>idiotic devil's advocate for...and that's fine
>>
>
>
>And BTW,I don't talk Shit. That would be the games that you
>like to play. But you should know that me not responding to 1
>respond on a 400+ post thread has not impact on who I am as a
>person or as a member of this community.
>
>
>>but then u got the gall to try and police my manners
>>
>>fuck u fam lol
>
>
>No, Playa, I was asking you to look into that mirror of
>Hypocrisy that you're holding in your hand. See how that
>works.
>
>
what mirror is that?

i thanked everyone for their sentiments...it's u who is having the difficulty admittining you were incorrect

my thoughts on your character have nothing to do with your character so if my opinion how your respond to these topics makes u defensive...don't look at my perspective as the problem...look to your actions, behaviors and patterns...

u wrong and if u can't be man enough to say that shit...then that says a lot more about your character than whatever it is u choose to respond to

>>that people who don't respect wanted me to respond to.
>>Gotcha!
>>
>>And now, based on your analysis I'm illustrating bullshit
>and
>>hypocrisy because I didn't respond. Gotcha on that too.
>>
>>>and more of the same bullshit and hypocrisy
>>>
>>>i didn't say u had to respond...
>>>
>>
>>Yet, you are calling my character into question, because I
>>didn't respond.
>
>>>if u don't want to...that's your prerogative...it's telling
>>as
>>>fuck lol
>>>
>>
>>
>>Dude, why do you even care (Yes you do). You don't listen to
>>anything else I have to say on subjects. You are always
>being
>>an ass towards me and I never treat you that way - ever.
>>
>>
>
>the same reason you are still responding...bc i don't care any
>less than u...
>
>>
>>>i'm not telling u to do anything...u have no problem
>talking
>>>shit about the subject until it takes a turn even u can't
>>play
>>>idiotic devil's advocate for...and that's fine
>>>
>>
>>
>>And BTW,I don't talk Shit. That would be the games that you
>>like to play. But you should know that me not responding to
>1
>>respond on a 400+ post thread has not impact on who I am as
>a
>>person or as a member of this community.
>>
>>
>>>but then u got the gall to try and police my manners
>>>
>>>fuck u fam lol
>>
>>
>>No, Playa, I was asking you to look into that mirror of
>>Hypocrisy that you're holding in your hand. See how that
>>works.
>>
>>
>what mirror is that?
>

That's just sad. You can't even see your own image.




>i thanked everyone for their sentiments...it's u who is having
>the difficulty admittining you were incorrect
>


No, you need to respond directly to my post in your OP and thank me directly (and everyone else too - directly) or you are a hypocrite - per your definition of the matter.




>my thoughts on your character have nothing to do with your
>character so if my opinion how your respond to these topics
>makes u defensive...don't look at my perspective as the
>problem...look to your actions, behaviors and patterns...
>

"my thoughts on your character have nothing to do with your character" What? Are you smoking those roses from this weekend?


>u wrong and if u can't be man enough to say that shit...then
>that says a lot more about your character than whatever it is
>u choose to respond to


Oh, so if i don't respond to #307, then I'm not a man. How does that work? Who decided that? You? And if I don't respond then my character is tainted.. GTFOHWTBS!

Man nap time and playtime was over in the 1st grade. Do you think I care about your school yard peer-pressure attempts.

You talking to the wrong own home-slice.

I've already dumbed it down enough for you, so for the sake of not exploding your brain, I'm going to leave this convo.

But if you feel the need to have the last word like a little lady, the misses, the wife, the side chick, then go on an respond. You can have the last word.


.
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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

u can't even begin to articulate any of those loose idiotic moments u just typed out so...have fun with that idiocy fam and eat a dick

Have a blessed day.
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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

thats why no one questions your manhood, its just telling that you're comfy enough to KNOW you read #307 but still scared to man up to it

I can't even imagine how a household/family that could even raise a person that embraces cowardice so much, and I bet your son looks up to you too, which is the worst part because no one deserves to handicapped by a man who celebrates lack of backbone


cowards follies always fall on someone else

>thats why no one questions your manhood, its just telling
>that you're comfy enough to KNOW you read #307 but still
>scared to man up to it
>


What does Man Up mean? Tell me how do you qualify that statement?


>I can't even imagine how a household/family that could even
>raise a person that embraces cowardice so much, and I bet your
>son looks up to you too, which is the worst part because no
>one deserves to handicapped by a man who celebrates lack of
>backbone
>
>


Now you are overstepping you bound because you are on the other side of a computer, but you would never say such a thing about me regarding my son to my face.

>cowards follies always fall on someone else
>

You are the an example of the ultimate Coward.

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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

Being that you won't look at #307 when you claim to be a Warrior Of Christ ect, yet will not point why your fellow pastor is talking about tithing & killing, something that you are CHARGED to answered to. Thats why you're a coward


I wouldn't say shit in person, I would just hurt you really bad and show your son why your character deserves physical attention. But thats neither here no there. You show cowardice in the face of your son and your god, THAT is ultimate cowardice, not someone calling you out on the net


your whole family is this way most likely

.
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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

literal and imaginary

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

.
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.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

You seriously are a clown in this thread for just blatantly ignoring that rather than having the guts/conviction to find fault in one of your false idols.

even the internet thuggery

In my mind I keep telling myself this is an online persona and that you are not this stupid and vile a person in real life, but I no longer believe that

I wish I could copy and paste Bin's reply to Bammer in the Lesson from last week, because it applies to you.

Which is it?

It's not like you can claim you didn't have time lol

>thats why no one questions your manhood, its just telling
>that you're comfy enough to KNOW you read #307 but still
>scared to man up to it
>
>I can't even imagine how a household/family that could even
>raise a person that embraces cowardice so much, and I bet your
>son looks up to you too, which is the worst part because no
>one deserves to handicapped by a man who celebrates lack of
>backbone
>
>
>cowards follies always fall on someone else
>

i could halfway respect if dollar came out and said, okay, the G650 was a bit much, bit we DO need a plane to carry on the business of saving lives/souls, so let's aim for a less expensive option.

but nope. he goes from raising $65 mil for a private luxury jet to, yeah, that's okay, we'll just continue flying commercial. he was about to extract an obscene amount of resources from an overwhelmingly low-income community for something he very easily could've done without.

at absolute best, this shows staggeringly poor judgment. at worst, he just got caught trying to swindle people who can't afford it into directly funding his vain anti-christian lifestyle.

and just as cowardly is the fact that dollar was front and center with a personal video when he had his hand out, but when it comes to shutting the project down, he does it quietly through a representative. his church was about to follow his lead on a $65 million project, and he doesn't even have the guts to address them directly on why-- three days later-- it's no longer needed.

and still, folks like case will continue cosigning any and everything these megachurch cult personalities do. sadly, their main disappointment in this is that pastor dollar now won't be able to deliver food to third-world countries and transplant organs across the city, or whatever other nonsense they told themselves to justify the pastor of a nonprofit church in a poor black community flying around in a $65 million top-of-the-line luxury gulfstream.

>i could halfway respect if dollar came out and said, okay,
>the G650 was a bit much, bit we DO need a plane to carry on
>the business of saving lives/souls, so let's aim for a less
>expensive option.
>
>but nope. he goes from raising $65 mil for a private luxury
>jet to, yeah, that's okay, we'll just continue flying
>commercial. he was about to extract an obscene amount of
>resources from an overwhelmingly low-income community for
>something he very easily could've done without.
>
>at absolute best, this shows staggeringly poor judgment. at
>worst, he just got caught trying to swindle people who can't
>afford it into directly funding his vain anti-christian
>lifestyle.
>
>and just as cowardly is the fact that dollar was front and
>center with a personal video when he had his hand out, but
>when it comes to shutting the project down, he does it quietly
>through a representative. his church was about to follow his
>lead on a $65 million project, and he doesn't even have the
>guts to address them directly on why-- three days later-- it's
>no longer needed.
>
>and still, folks like case will continue cosigning any and
>everything these megachurch cult personalities do. sadly,
>their main disappointment in this is that pastor dollar now
>won't be able to deliver food to third-world countries and
>transplant organs across the city, or whatever other nonsense
>they told themselves to justify the pastor of a nonprofit
>church in a poor black community flying around in a $65
>million top-of-the-line luxury gulfstream.

It's interesting that his supporters will so easily call other people devils and demons without knowing the first thing about them, but when something challenges the cult of Creflo, suddenly extra information is needed, and yet they'll refuse to look further even when shown the extra information.

And for what? The love of material things.

Its the same model the charlatan has been following for ages.

whether it be through cunning or naiveté, its all rooted in cowardice because there are truths that they consciously hide their eyes from

He tries to play victim and deny it, but this post exemplifies it.

I think the guy is a crook. But he does run a "legitimate" church and does a lot of travel on church business.
So a plane could very well be necessary.
But not the best, most luxurious private jet in existence.

Get a good used plane if you have to. Spend 10 million at the most and go about your business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuSrl6jTWSg

Dude grew a church from 121 to 17K in a few short years using social media, rock music and a "come as you are" mantra

I moved to Charlotte and started seeing this logo that looked like a skateboard or snowboard company. Turns out it was a logo for Elevation.

This church is killing it. Techno music, satellite churches all around Charlotte. People with ball caps and tattoos in plain view, rock music and a Pastor who wears some tight ass jeans.

Sometimes the pastor will film his sermon the night before and you will have 500 to 1K people watching it on projector screens thinking it's live. Talk about a slick ass move.

Here is a great write up on how good and weird they are at marketing their church. They do a lot of good things around Charlotte but one has to wonder if they REALLY were about it how much more they could do while still making enough to fund their ministry.

http://www.charlottemagazine.com/Charlotte-Magazine/January-2014/The-Story-of-Elevation-Church/

Case One, you should read this... no snark. They have some GREAT ideas that more churches should use. I'm a fan of the date night idea.

...

Vee is I and I am She

...

http://twitter.com/#!/Phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality
http://phenomenality.tumblr.com/archive

LOL
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"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

>

I'm glad he gettin clowned on such an epic level in here


it takes a special type of bitch to tuck his tale in this fashion, especially when posting some hollow ass scripture about something he's too yellow to even follow thru on


uncle tom ass nigga, hope he always feels this

http://www.theroot.com/blogs/the_grapevine/2015/04/creflo_dollar_says_the_devil_blocked_his_dreams_of_a_65_000_000_jet.html