In The Last 10 Years'
Says Geraldo Rivera
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/17/geraldo-rivera-hip-hop-racism_n_6701628.html

...with his mustache.

lol...

there's truth to what he saying...but it should be narrowed down to mainstream hip hop.

Black people have been saying this abt mainstream hip hop for years, and sadly, it's gotten worse year over year.

10yrs ago mainstream hip hop was in it's beginning stages of what it is now...highly materialistic, super ignorant, thug-centric music devoid of any real social commentary or art for that matter.

but I agree main stream hip hop has hurt our youth...

pop music isn't any better but I guess that's a different argument.

the people that pick, bankroll, and exploit what is digested as our image are literally only doing that to ONE group of people.

it would be like saying vampire movies have done more harm to women than misogyny. Does not compute.

It's controlled by people in general who put a premium on making money above whatever sorts of sociological or psychological effects the material they're putting out will have.

Some of these records that break big are made by black audiences and distributed by black owned record companies who only use major-labels for distribution. Some of this stuff breaks via the internet with no label involved at all.

however as a general scope ALL of hip hop doesn't get to be mainstream. The mainstream backed hip hop, by and large, is destructive by design, because of it's racist agenda. R&B is going through something similar.

On the flip side, most wide artists (not genres) get to have a wide range of representation without it ever boiling down to any extrapolating indictment onto the entire race. Miley Cyrus was just wildin' in 2014 but then pops on SNL with her grandma's church affair outfit and sings a country song and all is well.

Racism is everywhere, even in Hip Hop. Hip Hop has done more to encourage the esteem of our identity, right or wrong, good or bad. When has racism ever done that?

which proves my point...

"a music industry where people have jobs who don't even like the shit" - Busta

Racism still has more of an impact on a wider variety of black people than hip-hop ever will into the foreseeable future.

Racism can affect all, repeat, ALL black people. Hip-hop can only affect those who are deep enough off into it, whether by choice or nurture/peer pressure. What negative influence does hip-hop have over a black kid who's a fan of international jazz? It has a negative influence on other people's perceptions of young black kids, yes, but if the kid's not listening to hip-hop - or even if they are and don't feel compelled to get a tattoo or act a fool in public - where's the negative effect?

And to be honest, hip-hop - specifically, the type of hip-hop played on mainstream radio - did more damage to young black culture during the ten years preceding these ten than these past ten. The music may be worse than ever, but it's still traveling in the same direction set during the mid 2000s and hasn't really done much to change course.

Racism that has for centuries denied us education, housing, healthcare, employment, access, and wealth. Has broken up families and taken lives.

Hip hop has done more damage than that? No.

Any discussion of hip hip vs racism changes dramatically when you expand that parameter.

W/in the confines of the 10yrs, mainstream rap has done the Black youth a great disservice and has had a noticeable negative effect on them.

kids with bad taste in music
barely qualifies as a problem.

hell, for all I know, the music isn't even bad.
it just sucks to me becaue i'm old.



>Any discussion of hip hip vs racism changes dramatically when
>you expand that parameter.
>
>W/in the confines of the 10yrs, mainstream rap has done the
>Black youth a great disservice and has had a noticeable
>negative effect on them.

That statement let's me know how out of touch you are w/ this topic.

>That statement let's me know how out of touch you are w/ this
>topic.


This nonsense about rap glorifying bad behavior
and promoting a moralaly inferior culture has been around
for as long as black music has.

they use the same words in their think pieces to spin this line.



And even if this theory had some validity
(and i don't think it does- I was able to
understand irony, hyperbole, and fantasy as a black kid
and I assume black kids understand those literary devices too- just like white kids didn't take Marilyn Manson and eminem literally)
that can't do more damage than the prison industrial complex
and the war on drugs and emplyment discrimination and
a dozen other systemic problems I could name off the top of my head.

I ain't the one out of touch here.

I hate new music, but I know enough about music (and its critics)
to know that this is some bullshit.

Rock n Roll, Blues, R&B

R&B was raunchy and not wholesome
Rock n Roll would take over your mind and make you a hippy
etc etc.

Hip-hop has never denied anyone a bank loan or didn't allow them the same paycheck as their white peers.

>10yrs ago mainstream hip hop was in it's beginning stages of
>what it is now...highly materialistic, super ignorant,
>thug-centric music devoid of any real social commentary or art
>for that matter.

Personally, I think that trying to blame the condition of black folks on the effects of hip-hop is pretty silly.

But maybe they can show me som'n that'll change my mind.

they are definitely noticeable.

And this isnt an all out blame game because I believe that's silly too but we need to own up to the negative things we can attribute back to mainstream hip hop.

Black people's overall condition has/is/was affected by racism, no doubt about that but in the last 10yrs hip hop has been racism's tip of the spear.

>they are definitely noticeable.

What are some of the things that hip-hop has done to harm black folks? Specifically things that didn't exist before hip-hop (drugs, gangs, etc). What unique element did hip-hop add to the mix that dragged black folks down?

I'm with So What. I don't see it but I'm more than willing to listen to the opposing point of view.

that have become associated or synonomous w/ Black culture.

They are in no particular order...

Sagging pants
Gang Affiliation
Violence
Misogyny
Drug culture
Thug mentality
Extreme materialism
Hyper masculinity
Prison mentality

These prevalent themes in mainstream hip hop have changed the mind state of many young Black and Brown males (and females) in impoverished areas to the point that it's visibly noticeable in everything they do and say...they truly embody the music moreso than ever and that's scary. Whether art imitates life or life imitates art, it's painfully obvious that the art of mainstream hip hop is no longer that.

Whether art
>imitates life or life imitates art

i'm not convinced that the behavioral trends you've identified are all the product of HH consumption by our youth.

i'm not sure whether HH is reflecting and following trends that develop outside HH or whether the trends develop from HH consumption. or if there's a mix of both depending on who what and where we're talking about.

that list didn't convince me.

>Sagging pants

This one I'll file under questionable fashion sense.

>Gang Affiliation
>Violence
>Misogyny
>Drug culture
>Thug mentality
>Extreme materialism
>Hyper masculinity
>Prison mentality

All of this? These have been issues for black folks before an MC rocked any party. No way on god's green earth did hip-hop cause any of this. If anything, hip-hop started speaking to these issues (or reflecting them).

>These prevalent themes in mainstream hip hop have changed the
>mind state of many young Black and Brown males (and females)
>in impoverished areas to the point that it's visibly
>noticeable in everything they do and say...they truly embody
>the music moreso than ever and that's scary. Whether art
>imitates life or life imitates art, it's painfully obvious
>that the art of mainstream hip hop is no longer that.

If it's anything, it's art imitating life. And there's no way that I can fault hip-hop for reflecting or talking about what already existed. They want hip-hop to be the scapegoat that causes us to look away from some of the real causes.

operation that only allows certain images of Black folks to be broadcast.

We're talking about a propaganda campaign.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

https://vine.co/v/OMaJ3tphVIw

one, the housing crisis ALONE has fucked up the black community more than hip-hop ever could, and that's just ONE thing.

2, hip-hop *is* mainstream culture. Trying to front like it ain't is dumb. And old.

3. Russell Simmons is responsible for...what, now..?

as their darkie compatriots.

Only thing is with them there is a distance between that reality and theirs. Thanks to.. 450 years of American subjugation and the various forms it takes..we aren't that lucky.

Take a kid who's family has been marginalized for generations and make him listen to country music and you aren't going to get much of a difference(similar to poor marginalized ofay in rural areas).

Its the copout "its the movies, its the videogames" answer when a kid goes and shoots up a school ignoring the fucked up ideas this country pumps out

So there's distance there too.

it ain't like black ppl are the only ones consuming modern hip hop
culturally we tend to allow it to have more of a negative influence though
which is 100% on us

Because these problems aren't new.

spurred by dumb niggas in the 70s dropping the momentum of the civil rights movement and falling for the okie doke

maybe that's the wrong word.
but it's so different from mine that we
never agree on anything.

his history may be skewed but there is some truth to it. What I remember when I was a young one was Hiphop transitioning from party / block party music in the ate 70's through the mid 80's to an afrocentric,rise up focused movement. You had Public Enemy, Poor righteous teachers, BDP etc DOMINATING the hiphop scene. Then, 2 live crew started moving units, and its been going downhill ever since.. IMHO. The civil rights era was straight up abandoned and we're suffering for it.

what good did it do?

but that balance was thrown off when white people gave the new era of less Afro-centric rap commercial success...once the money train stars rolling then there's not much that can stop it.

When NWA garnered national attn via MTV it was all over at that point.

>but that balance was thrown off when white people gave the
>new era of less Afro-centric rap commercial success...once the
>money train stars rolling then there's not much that can stop
>it.
>
>When NWA garnered national attn via MTV it was all over at
>that point.

my bad.

but okay.

much better than shrugging and embracing it with crack rap, murder rap and the Source giving the recipe for cooking up crack in one if it's issues

The hip hop in the Afrocentric era was IN RESPONSE to the ravaging of the hood. The good it did is only knowable if you could somehow measure what would happen in our community had we not had afrocentric hiphop. It did SOME good but how much.. ? Beats me, some is better than none though.


Quick question, do you think twerking in music had anything to do with twerking going mainstream and around the world? If so, what's the difference? Influence is influence.

>Quick question, do you think twerking in music had anything to
>do with twerking going mainstream and around the world?

i'm not sure twerking went around the world but i'll assume it did.

i think music played a part.

If so,
>what's the difference? Influence is influence.

we do the Electric Slide at weddings b/c of music and videos. i think that's cute. i have no problem w/it.

i can't agree that b/c my aunties do the Electric Slide and my lil cousins twerk that niggas are shooting each other b/c they hear it in music. ppl are able to figure out that they shouldn't just blindly repeat every behavior they hear and see in music and videos. they do the dances b/c the dances are fun. they don't necessarily do the shooting b/c the shooting is dangerous and wrong and can have serious consequences. i think the shooting is about much more nefarious influence than HH music.

in a nutshell, i think the shooting is about a lack of value - the shooters don't value the lives of the targets. they don't value their communities. b/c they're relatively disenfranchised.

>>Quick question, do you think twerking in music had anything
>to
>>do with twerking going mainstream and around the world?
>
>i'm not sure twerking went around the world but i'll assume it
>did.
>
>i think music played a part.
>
> If so,
>>what's the difference? Influence is influence.
>
>we do the Electric Slide at weddings b/c of music and videos.
>i think that's cute. i have no problem w/it.
>
>i can't agree that b/c my aunties do the Electric Slide and my
>lil cousins twerk that niggas are shooting each other b/c they
>hear it in music. ppl are able to figure out that they
>shouldn't just blindly repeat every behavior they hear and see
>in music and videos. they do the dances b/c the dances are
>fun. they don't necessarily do the shooting b/c the shooting
>is dangerous and wrong and can have serious consequences. i
>think the shooting is about much more nefarious influence than
>HH music.
>
>in a nutshell, i think the shooting is about a lack of value -
>the shooters don't value the lives of the targets. they don't
>value their communities. b/c they're relatively
>disenfranchised.




Fam all of that you wrote, starting with twerking NOT going around the world after starting in hiphop videos/music is evidence, you're in it for the argument and consider me out of it. You're clowning man...

the main point was - niggas shoot each other b/c they don't love themselves or each other, not b/c some rapper rapped about shooting.

They go hand in hand. I don't have a problem with your premise, I agree with you that broken people are the prime evil but negativity re-enforces self destruction and that is psych 101 stuff.

i'm basing all this off books, magazine articles, and netflix docs

>i'm basing all this off books, magazine articles, and netflix
>docs
>


me too.

it's obvious that we have studied the same periods of time
and reached vastly different conclusions about everything.

you know how yall be emotional
i wasn't saying rap created drugs and gangs, go reread it this time while calm

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

It doesn't? It's not 100% one way or 100% the other way but to suggest hiphop hasn't contributed negatively to people's life choices is just as disingenuous as saying hiphop hasn't SAVED many people's lives.

>It doesn't? It's not 100% one way or 100% the other way but
>to suggest hiphop hasn't contributed negatively to people's
>life choices is just as disingenuous as saying hiphop hasn't
>SAVED many people's lives.

but if i see/hear some proof i'll reconsider.

Chief Keef is a perfect example of this whole discussion.

Not necessarily affected negatively by racism but definitely negative affected by mainstream hip hop AND the music he created.

dude lives in one of the most hood cities in the midwest
and he doesn't understand how pop culture influences poor youth
k (c) soWhat

i guess i should be using HH lyrics in my defense?

'The rappers made him do it!'

but naw...if it's SO obvious it should be easily demonstrated.

so demonstrate it.

Are you seriously playing devil's advocate or just being contrary for fuck's sake? Courts would be foolish to accept the rap made me do it defense just the same they would be foolish to accept any external influence on crime. Poverty BREEDS crime there is NO question about that but have you ever seen an attorney successfully argue that poverty "made" him murder those people or steal that stuff?

you're saying i SHOULDN'T blame rap music for my client's alleged bad behavior???

but this post says.....

No, I'm saying you'd be a fool to try and argue that in court. Just like trying to argue that poverty made me do a crime would be foolish as well but regardless there are plenty of studies that PROVE poverty is a very real cause of crime. You cannot be seriously claiming ignorance on this.

thanks, player.

WTF, c'mon man.

i really need a new trial date.

drug use and gang membership was spurred by ppl falling for the okie doke in the 70s
rap wasn't even in that reply , and the OG question was what was the problem before rap
smh

*clears throat*

Before hip hop is irrelevant to comment made by GR.

Blacks in America, as collective data point, have never been more educated, healthier, financially successful, or socially mobile

record level lows of teen pregnancy, gang affiliation and violence, and drop out rates. again LOWS!

and even with that, Blacks (men and woman) are still the most incarcerated (though nearly 70% are for NON VIOLENT CRIMES), more likely to get suspended than their white peers in school, and still socially stigmatized and criminalized in media narratives and popular cultural productions

and even those numbers / statistics represent only 5-25% of the "community"

also Blacks who are educated and fully employed HAVE LESS NET WORTH than their white counterparts WITH HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS

BUT RAP....

FUCK. OUTTA. HERE.

Are cats really committing more crimes because of Hip-hop? Dropping out of school?

Yeah its affecting the slang and style of dress but those factors aren't a bigger deal than straight up racism.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

you'll have to repost it elsewhere and we can have the convo from scratch, minus his historic and shameless fuckery. /message

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

.

Rap is apart of Hip Hop its not Hip Hop completely.

lately every time he gets the chance he's shitting on blk folks

Geraldo is wrong

And I shouldn't have to run fro a black man.
Self destruction, you're headed for self destruction...

I don't know that hiphop has done MORE damage to black and brown people than racism but rather, a lot of hip hop IS racism and self hatred. This is NOTHING NEW, there has been a civil war going on for 30 years,,

HipHop's influence on blk youth or popular cultural in general since 2005?

Because what I *think* Geraldo is getting at is what many of the artists themselves and ppl who love HipHop have been complaining abt in regards to the musical direction as well as the social and activism side of the art form in the last decade or so...

So what has HipHop as a cultural movement been abt since 2005?

************************

i'm not sure HH has been a cultural movement for a couple decades now.

i don't see a concerted effort among a significant number of HH acts and fans and others to move toward anything in particular.

So what is or has HipHop been abt since 2005?

I think we can all agree there's been a decline in the music from a lyrical and content standpoint

There's literally no such thing as "conscious rap" anymore

I think you could draw a timeline between 2005-present as to when this decline occurred in HipHop


>i'm not sure HH has been a cultural movement for a couple
>decades now.
>
>i don't see a concerted effort among a significant number of
>HH acts and fans and others to move toward anything in
>particular.
>
>

G's point isn't worthy of discussion.

whether HH is or should be a cultural movement w/a goal and all that...that's another talk.

Kane/Lord Jamar or even KRS ONE say in regards to how the new generation of HIpHoppers are dropping the ball w/preserving the art form

Whether it's the imagery they're promoting or the message or lack thereof in the music - the artists themselves have expressed their opinions no different than what Geradlo is saying

I could see if Geraldo made a blanket generalized statement abt HipHop that since it's inception it's only been a negative influence on blk and brown ppl...but he specifically said the last 10 years and there's a lot of truth to that...

I think we as a community get defensive, and understandably so, whenever the criticisms of us are coming from without..


>G's point isn't worthy of discussion.
>
>whether HH is or should be a cultural movement w/a goal and
>all that...that's another talk.

period.

>period.

>

Facts:

1)Hip-hop (your mop example is prime) was AS violent in the golden era of the 90's as it is now. While we like singing along to classics, if you really listen to those lyrics outside of golden covered lenses much of it was fucked.

2)Crime is less then it was ten years ago.

know what is up though? people in jail, unemployment, decline in education standards

from that, this ain't got shit to do w/"hatin youth" ...what an ignorant and idiotic thing to say

Now let me tackle what you said below...


>Facts:
>
>1)Hip-hop (your mop example is prime) was AS violent in the
>golden era of the 90's as it is now. While we like singing
>along to classics, if you really listen to those lyrics
>outside of golden covered lenses much of it was fucked.

Uh why was it called the "golden era," Sherlock??? Could it be because you had more sophisticated or "conscious rap" music in terms of content that involved issues pertinent to blk ppl to offer a balance to the more violent rap music that was starting to take over the music by the early to mid 90s

Now that balance is nearly obsolete - we're saturated w/inferior music ad nauseam...which is why I think artists like Kendrick Lamar and J Cole have been so well received by a lot of the older HipHop artists.


>
>2)Crime is less then it was ten years ago.

Ok, so by extension blk youth are doing better academically/socially/culturally than ever before??
>
>know what is up though? people in jail, unemployment, decline
>in education standards

-do blk ppl bare *some* responsiblity for willingly playing into the traps set by the larger society? Like glorifying seliing drugs when we know where the road will eventually lead to. To a lot of our youth "doing a prison bid" is a badge of honor.though..and garners more respect in some instances amongst their peers than getting a college degree..

And academically speaking, that's not all on the dominant society either - there's a level of anti-intellectualism amongst many in out community, too...we don't value education as much as parents/grandparents once did. And the lack of a quality education reduces your chances in the job market...so we have to quit acting as if we don't have any agency concerning our condition...that we're somehow just helpless victims who aren't partly responsible for anything that plagues the blk community.

>-do blk ppl bare *some* responsiblity for willingly playing
>into the traps set by the larger society? Like glorifying
>seliing drugs when we know where the road will eventually lead
>to. To a lot of our youth "doing a prison bid" is a badge of
>honor.though..and garners more respect in some instances
>amongst their peers than getting a college degree..

We just collectively gave it up to the bang bang, shoot em up? Perhaps we are just genetically deficient and resort to crabs in a barrel behavior when put together like ofay wants to claim that we are.

You've got kids in Brownsville Brooklyn who look at Manhattan like it's a mythical place they've never been to when its less then ten miles away; the system is rigged.

I love how you make the logical leap of, 'It's mainstream hip-hop' but don't want to acknowledge the BIGGER things in place besides who controls what you see on the racks at Walmart (or the front page of itunes). You say 'willingly' as if suddenly the kid who's four generations DEEP in the projects with no parents who graduated high school (forget college) is supposed to become all by the bootstraps at the age of ten(because by the late teen years its probably too late) to perhaps enroll himself in a school two hours away by public transportation, cook his own lunches, forcibly re-engage teachers that have already written him or her off because they are black, etc.

They are traps for a reason, and while us talented tenth'ers can sit back on our macbooks and talk about how people in the hood just don't get it and should improve their itunes playlists, the problem is MUCH deeper then that. 70's was chock full of pro-black music and black folks were in dire situations.

And honestly, it's not as if its the g-unit gangster rap era anyway, sure you have your chief keefs and shmurdas but you also have your drakes(who ironically enough, many old heads see as soft), Kanye's, and even fuckers like Young Thug if you really listen is more on that 'party and bullshit' a la Whodini then MURDER MURDER KILL KILL, which, despite your 'WE HAD A BALANCE, LOLZ'* came in under OUR generations watch, lol. The music on the radio today is LESS murderous, but as frivolous(cause it's not like niggas like LL was gonna win humanitarian of the year), as what was popping when radio finally embraced hip-hop.

>
>
>
>

>

.

That he feels this way doesn't surprise me at all.

D

DJing in the hip hop style in particular was a checkpoint on a road that already had a lot of travellers on it

The innovations of scratching and extending breaks seems more like a natural evolution of the craft, rather than a reaponse to social conditions

those DJ's would have been receiving formal instrument training at that age.

The Turntablist is a direct effect of having no other viable outlet to express musicality.

D

I had music IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS in NY in like '86 though.. playing the recorder and all that

My dad played 2 instruments when he came from Belize '74 and even he was a DJ. DJing is a direct result of club culture not lack of instruments in schools.

You know how much equipment costs?

Yea especially when you look at cats like Flowers and those early-mid 70s guys..

They just simply wanted to DJ.. cuz well its fly shit.. lol

>those DJ's would have been receiving formal instrument
>training at that age.
>The Turntablist is a direct effect of having no other viable
>outlet to express musicality.

Because there are a large number of DJs with access to both who choose one vs the other, or even abandon classical training in favor of DJing.

Additionally, DJing had been going on for decades before turntablism in night clubs among ppl who had no interest in formal musicianship. The guy who "invented" beatmatching was white and played in discos. Once beatmatching and slipcueing became widespread, scratching was just across a very short bridge.

Just so we're clear, im not talking about the *spirit* of hip hop, just the evolution of its techniques

because "the hip hop elders" sold it to them

graf is def a response to social conditions of inner cities in NY, LA, and later SF, but it was also within the cultural circumference of metal and punk, and had a good number of middle class kids aiding in its aesthetic development

it was as much about youth culture, and drugs, and spaces of social racial integration, as it was about poverty and the post-civil rights years, as it was about aesthetic changes in relation to new technologies

do y'all know people in the struggle? like really in the struggle? of the list of factors that contributed to their station in life, the music they listen to ain't high on the list if it's even on there at all...


***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

they tend to make us believe that music was important to those efforts.

i agree...the importance there is also overstated. and it could be why so many of us fall for the idea that HH must be having a negative impact on us now where Soul music and protest songs had such a positive impact on our parents' and grandparents' generations.

no one is arguing that ppl hear a chief keef song then literally go outside and act out on those lyrics
it's cyclical
rappers glamorize street culture
and ppl without a pot to piss in live vicariously thru those lyrics

So if Black folks must have Keef's content to succeed, you're talking about a
self-fulfilling prophecy and propaganda campaign. This ain't about Hip Hop.

ppl who listen to rap shoot ppl.

thus, the idea to shoot ppl must come from rap.

rappers rap about selling drugs.

ppl who listen to rap sell drugs.

thus, the idea to sell drugs must come from rap.

^^ do it get it, folks? i wanna be sure i'm not missing the obvious impact HH has had on our ppl.

Basketball player plays basketball
Youth sees basketball player playing basketball and begins playing basketball himself. Kids have been and will always be influenced by those in the public eye.

i wanted to be sure it's as simple and short sighted as it seemed.

right on.

So now you're denying pop cultures influence on regular people? It is simple but it isn't short cited as it has been in effect since people started mass communications.

Do you then fam. but it's most likely pop culture influenced YOU to come to this site. Just think about that. Why do you post here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Qfbrc1jdo

Well played but your notion that pop culture doesn't influence anyone is laughable, especially since you are posting on a site started by a pop/hiphop band and you're posting videos of people who are a part of pop culture. Basically, you're proving my point.


That shit is funny though, I'll give you that.

that i don't believe pop has influence on ppl.

dead.
serious.

you're dead wrong too.

b/c now i have egg on my face!

damn.

>b/c now i have egg on my face!
>
>damn.

I see, so you're just in it for the LULZ. Alright then.

damn.

I never said I WAS super smart... I listened to hiphop my whole life... I gotta be graded on a curve.

nice one.

don't forget about rappers who sag their trousers, which in turn causes the listener to sag their trousers and fuck up their life.

When an album didn't matter because we could be lucrative with Souljah Boy doing whatever hook (no hate to Souljah Boy) on your Nokia POS100. THIS is what the mainstream clung too, and has churned out Crank Dat, Chain Hang Low, 2 Step, etc. Meanwhile you also have had them attempt this with the advent of viral video (Trinidad James, Bobby Shmurda, etc) and THAT representation is not the entirety of Hip Hop.

Hip Hop as a whole has made plenty of advancements, including ones denouncing the unbalance of negativity in the music as well as racism as it IS still alive, they just be concealing it (c). The entirety of Hip Hop cannot be more destructive than the entirety of Racism.

Un.Possi.Bull.

Anything to keep the focus off white supremacy smh. And some of y'all
actually buy this crock of shit lol.

Lamenting negativity in hiphop and also being aware of white supremacy are NOT mutually exclusive. That you think they are, is an example of the soft bigotry of low expectations.

who said they were? In the context of this "more damaging" statement,
it's a complete deflection 1st of all. Not even close to being the
most damaging. Talk abt negativity in hiphop all you want, but using
it as a deflection as to what the real problem is and I will call YOU
out.

Second Geraldo doesn't give a damn abt Black ppl or hiphop. So cosign
this bullshit if u want.

What race are you?

To think rap had a MORE negative effect than things like Predatory lending, discrimination in housing/hiring and the Prison Industrial complex is preposterous

Yes Geraldo is an idiot, we all know that but since he brought it up, we should ridicule HIS idiocy AND the idiocy in hiphop.

I have a problem with the idea that it CAUSES people who would otherwise be model citizens to actually commit bad actions.

Does art/entertainment industry make people do bad things, or does the art/entertainment Industry succeed because people already WANT to do things deemed dangerous/socially unacceptable so they look for an outlet that will allow them to experience these things from a safe distance?

>I have a problem with the idea that it CAUSES people who
>would otherwise be model citizens to actually commit bad
>actions.
>
>Does art/entertainment industry make people do bad things, or
>does the art/entertainment Industry succeed because people
>already WANT to do things deemed dangerous/socially
>unacceptable so they look for an outlet that will allow them
>to experience these things from a safe distance?
>
>

A little from A and a little from B.

I have enjoyed ALL kinds of hiphop my whole life. I didn't turn out too bad but I know plenty of people who go out of their way to emulate what they see/hear in hiphop. It can go both ways but I do think LESS negativity is better than more, generally. So maybe that's my problem but....

when you were a kid, did you take all music litterally?
or did you understand that the shit is to be taken with a grain of salt?

steely dan has some downright reprehensible lyrics, if the songs
are taken literally.

but pundits hear eminem and assume kids will take the shit as a guide to live life.


black children are not that stupid.
they are not listening to the songs at face value.



well, maybe some exceptionally stupid children are.

but you can't do anything about the exceptionally stupid.
you could read the bible and justify killing folks for no reason if you want.


are only white ppl allowed to grasp irony?
Why?







>In The Last 10 Years'
>Says Geraldo Rivera
>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/17/geraldo-rivera-hip-hop-racism_n_6701628.html
>

that's a solid point.

that's pretty sad.

much less the avg. teen
much less the avg. black inner city teen scoring 1000 on the SATS
cmon

and yes rap fans tend to take lyrics seriously and literally sad to say
that's why street cred is so important in the genre
did you forget the controversy behind rick ross being a CO and not a former Zoe general?

Many years after that.

vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...


>Many years after that.

they have songs about selling drugs,
doing drugs,
fucking children,

I could go on.



Why does nobody think that steely dan fans are
likely to take these songs as endorsements for how to live?


oh yeah.


white ppl be smart and shit.
they don't take records literally.

that's why ppl protest eminem but steely dan is cool.

there is not a single argument you can make
that wasn't also made about every generation of music before HH.








>vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the
>biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...
>
>
>>Many years after that.
>

Fans of 'rap/angsta rap' do

Never has Steely Dan pretended to be living (or glorifying) the lifestyle they sung abt either

Also, they didn't just sing abt those things either

Unlike a lot of the music from artists since 2005 where the content has completely been dumbed down

Also, pop culture's influence on mainstream society wasn't as far reaching during Steely Dan's peak as pop culture/rap music is on today's youth/pop culture.

Due to the breakdown of social institutions in the last 20-25 yrs it has resulted in many blk youth to look for self-identity and role models outside of their immediate environment...which is why you can't compare your childhood or kids who listened to hard rock or heavy metal in the 70 and 80s to kids today who listen and live by HipHop. There's many social factors at play why HipHop artists have to be more socially responsible than other (non blk) artists.


>they have songs about selling drugs,
>doing drugs,
>fucking children,
>
>I could go on.
>
>
>
>Why does nobody think that steely dan fans are
>likely to take these songs as endorsements for how to live?
>
>
>oh yeah.
>
>
>white ppl be smart and shit.
>they don't take records literally.
>
>that's why ppl protest eminem but steely dan is cool.
>
>there is not a single argument you can make
>that wasn't also made about every generation of music before
>HH.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the
>>biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...
>>
>>
>>>Many years after that.
>>
>

it's a fucking record.

I never thought I'd say this... but it is just music.

Marilyn Manson did not cause colombine.
nirvana does not cause suicide.
Rick Ross is not causing crime.


It's just music.

This argument is as dumb now as it was 10 & 20 & 30 & 40 & 50 & 60 years ago.


Nothing has changed.




>Fans of 'rap/angsta rap' do
>
>Never has Steely Dan pretended to be living (or glorifying)
>the lifestyle they sung abt either
>
>Also, they didn't just sing abt those things either
>
>Unlike a lot of the music from artists since 2005 where the
>content has completely been dumbed down
>
>Also, pop culture's influence on mainstream society wasn't as
>far reaching during Steely Dan's peak as pop culture/rap
>music is on today's youth/pop culture.
>
>Due to the breakdown of social institutions in the last 20-25
>yrs it has resulted in many blk youth to look for
>self-identity and role models outside of their immediate
>environment...which is why you can't compare your childhood or
>kids who listened to hard rock or heavy metal in the 70 and
>80s to kids today who listen and live by HipHop. There's many
>social factors at play why HipHop artists have to be more
>socially responsible than other (non blk) artists.
>
>
>>they have songs about selling drugs,
>>doing drugs,
>>fucking children,
>>
>>I could go on.
>>
>>
>>
>>Why does nobody think that steely dan fans are
>>likely to take these songs as endorsements for how to live?
>>
>>
>>oh yeah.
>>
>>
>>white ppl be smart and shit.
>>they don't take records literally.
>>
>>that's why ppl protest eminem but steely dan is cool.
>>
>>there is not a single argument you can make
>>that wasn't also made about every generation of music before
>>HH.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the
>>>biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Many years after that.
>>>
>>
>

impressionable...and I've already pointed out why the breakdown of social institutions, for instance, has caused many blk youth to be more influenced by HipHop than kids from my generation were...it's no coincidence that probably 6 or 7 out 10 young blk teens aspire to be a rapper

And HipHop is not just a music genre, for the umpteenth time, it is a culture...and culture does directly influence people's behavior

HipHop influences the way kids dress/talk/relate to the environment around them...it is their social context...so you can't compare how it affects blk youth to rock or jazz or r&b or country or blues music's influence on youth during their day.




>it's a fucking record.
>
>I never thought I'd say this... but it is just music.
>
>Marilyn Manson did not cause colombine.
>nirvana does not cause suicide.
>Rick Ross is not causing crime.
>
>
>It's just music.
>
>This argument is as dumb now as it was 10 & 20 & 30 & 40 & 50
>& 60 years ago.
>
>
>Nothing has changed.
>
>
>
>
>>Fans of 'rap/angsta rap' do
>>
>>Never has Steely Dan pretended to be living (or glorifying)
>>the lifestyle they sung abt either
>>
>>Also, they didn't just sing abt those things either
>>
>>Unlike a lot of the music from artists since 2005 where the
>>content has completely been dumbed down
>>
>>Also, pop culture's influence on mainstream society wasn't
>as
>>far reaching during Steely Dan's peak as pop culture/rap
>>music is on today's youth/pop culture.
>>
>>Due to the breakdown of social institutions in the last
>20-25
>>yrs it has resulted in many blk youth to look for
>>self-identity and role models outside of their immediate
>>environment...which is why you can't compare your childhood
>or
>>kids who listened to hard rock or heavy metal in the 70 and
>>80s to kids today who listen and live by HipHop. There's
>many
>>social factors at play why HipHop artists have to be more
>>socially responsible than other (non blk) artists.
>>
>>
>>>they have songs about selling drugs,
>>>doing drugs,
>>>fucking children,
>>>
>>>I could go on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Why does nobody think that steely dan fans are
>>>likely to take these songs as endorsements for how to live?
>>>
>>>
>>>oh yeah.
>>>
>>>
>>>white ppl be smart and shit.
>>>they don't take records literally.
>>>
>>>that's why ppl protest eminem but steely dan is cool.
>>>
>>>there is not a single argument you can make
>>>that wasn't also made about every generation of music
>before
>>>HH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>vented" himself into now? His rap name is named after the
>>>>biggest distributor of cocaine in US history...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Many years after that.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

They always are.

it's like...damn.

but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access to or influence on kids. b/c they scary.

and I can say firsthand that MANY of our youth are highly impressionable or stupid even

It is you all who sound like you don't have any real life experience to draw upon

So go on believing that ALL blk youth are just fine and that they don't take anything in rap music seriously. They will just figure everything out abt the world on their own.


>it's like...damn.
>
>but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access to
>or influence on kids. b/c they scary.

if you came at me like this as a kid, i'd tune it out.
maybe this is why you feel the kids don't listen.

you don't listen to them.



>and I can say firsthand that MANY of our youth are highly
>impressionable or stupid even
>
>It is you all who sound like you don't have any real life
>experience to draw upon
>
>So go on believing that ALL blk youth are just fine and that
>they don't take anything in rap music seriously. They will
>just figure everything out abt the world on their own.
>
>
>>it's like...damn.
>>
>>but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access to
>>or influence on kids. b/c they scary.
>

w/young teens

And guess what: oftentimes the adults we tune out as kids turn out to be the very ones we should've listened to...

But again, I can tell from the things you that you've never worked with or spent much time around teenagers, particularly blk male teenagers from the inner city...for you to say there's nothing wrong with our youth at all.

Blk male teens tend to be more influenced by HipHop than any other social institution you can name...and would be far more likely to listen to young jeezy give them advice, for instance, than Cornel West or Minister Farrakhan...


>if you came at me like this as a kid, i'd tune it out.
>maybe this is why you feel the kids don't listen.
>
>you don't listen to them.
>
>
>
>>and I can say firsthand that MANY of our youth are highly
>>impressionable or stupid even
>>
>>It is you all who sound like you don't have any real life
>>experience to draw upon
>>
>>So go on believing that ALL blk youth are just fine and that
>>they don't take anything in rap music seriously. They will
>>just figure everything out abt the world on their own.
>>
>>
>>>it's like...damn.
>>>
>>>but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access
>to
>>>or influence on kids. b/c they scary.
>>
>

and relatives.

and teachers.

and coaches.

and mentors.

and friends.

than, you know, rappers. or athletes.

but i agree - they'll listen to Jeezy before Minister Farrakhan.

side note: i've worked w/teens who had to make decisions in a court case. none of them sought the advice of their favorite rapper. but almost all of them sought their parent's advice. or their friends. or relatives. or babymama/daddy. and, of course, they listened to their lawyer. none listened to a rapper.

And no, they don't listen to cornel west.
They listen to ppl in their lives.

And the adults I tuned out were and in many cases still are
on some bullshit.



>w/young teens
>
>And guess what: oftentimes the adults we tune out as kids turn
>out to be the very ones we should've listened to...
>
>But again, I can tell from the things you that you've never
>worked with or spent much time around teenagers, particularly
>blk male teenagers from the inner city...for you to say
>there's nothing wrong with our youth at all.
>
>Blk male teens tend to be more influenced by HipHop than any
>other social institution you can name...and would be far more
>likely to listen to young jeezy give them advice, for
>instance, than Cornel West or Minister Farrakhan...
>
>
>>if you came at me like this as a kid, i'd tune it out.
>>maybe this is why you feel the kids don't listen.
>>
>>you don't listen to them.
>>
>>
>>
>>>and I can say firsthand that MANY of our youth are highly
>>>impressionable or stupid even
>>>
>>>It is you all who sound like you don't have any real life
>>>experience to draw upon
>>>
>>>So go on believing that ALL blk youth are just fine and
>that
>>>they don't take anything in rap music seriously. They will
>>>just figure everything out abt the world on their own.
>>>
>>>
>>>>it's like...damn.
>>>>
>>>>but whatever. hopefully these ppl don't have much access
>>to
>>>>or influence on kids. b/c they scary.
>>>
>>
>

i have direct contact w/the youth we're talking about. every. day.

LOL

and i'm not so sheltered that i believe that the influence that causes you so much hand wringing is unique to HH or Black kids. it's not. it's been happening w/popular entertainment and kids since popular entertainment has been targeted at kids. it's not new. which is why i'm convinced the kids are alright. they're no worse than we were at their age. or our parents were at their age. or our grandparents. sure, they look act and dress differently. trends and fads have changed dramatically over the decades and generations. but the kids are fine. of course some of them will go too deep and take the entertainment too seriously. that is a small minority. the overwhelming majority put the entertainment in its proper context.

the kids i represent - they don't tell me they've committed theft or battery or whatever b/c they heard it rapped. they tell me they did it b/c they got mad over so-and-so talking shit about them or they were off their medz or they were broke or hungry or a host of reasons. but it's never been about what some rapper said. and i am convinced that they'd commit the offenses even if they never heard any rapper say anything. b/c our parents committed the same offenses back before any rapper ever rapped anything. our grandparents did too. so, it's not about the music IMO. or if the music plays a part it's a tiny part. and removing the music won't solve the problems these kids face or that these kids cause, generally. so attacking the music is wasted energy if the goal is to solve the big problems in these kids' lives.

if a kid said "rap made me do it" I would smack the shit out of him

if you peel back layers tho you will see or hear some things that could be related to rap.

I bet neither of these 2 have ever taught a class or worked at an after school program with inner city kids.

i worked at a day camp in the hood in Oakland, California. heard of it?

and i mentored and tutored kids after school and taught at a day camp in Chicago on the South Side. familiar w/that?

but now i work w/them one on one.

funny, ain't it?

>I bet neither of these 2 have ever taught a class or worked
>at an after school program with inner city kids.
>

It hurts that you don't believe that
I am working with inner city kids in the hood.

Please believe me.

I need validation.

I am a community organizer now.
But tell me more about how it really is for the kids in these streets.

It ain't like I talk to them or anything.

basically transporting drugs into jail etc
i guess it happens, i don't believe him
a lot of fans probably do though

>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>a lot of fans probably do though


Maybe that is why he's popular.
Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.

Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of it.
It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael jackson but hey...

This ain't my world anymore.

I wish he would pick the beats for a Nas album...

his content is azz but he makes enjoyable music IMO. I won't buy it but I won't stop myself from nodding when I hear his shit playing

>I wish he would pick the beats for a Nas album...
>
>his content is azz but he makes enjoyable music IMO. I won't
>buy it but I won't stop myself from nodding when I hear his
>shit playing


You mean kids might not be coming to rick ross for guidance?
They might like his shitty records because it has a good beat?

That's deep.

if kids were robots I would see your point but kids come in all shapes, sizes and some kids are easily swayed by talks of drugs, cars and money.

I used to work with kids in Philly...

some of these kids actually believe this shit fam... and in Philly a lot of these rappers were living the lives they rapped about. These kids are impressionable Joe, not all of them but much more than you think.

I know you want to give kids a ton of credit but every kid isn't as awesome as Joe Corn Moe

they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because he lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard than fans of other music

No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at UPS or as a security guard before his music career began...we certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music becaue of it


>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>a lot of fans probably do though
>
>
>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>
>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of it.
>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael jackson
>but hey...
>
>This ain't my world anymore.

I still don't believe most ppl take music this litterally.
Apparently, I still have some faith in humanity.

Don't ask me why.




they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because he
>lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the
>music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to
>MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard
>than fans of other music
>
>No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at UPS
>or as a security guard before his music career began...we
>certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music becaue
>of it
>
>
>>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>>a lot of fans probably do though
>>
>>
>>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>>
>>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of it.
>>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael
>jackson
>>but hey...
>>
>>This ain't my world anymore.
>

remind you of the East coast vs West coast beef that nearly caused an irreparable split in the music...and it wasn't just the respective crews (Death Row vs Bad Boy) who were at war w/one another but THE PPL/FANS of those 2 record labels/artists who were also personalizing that beef...



>I still don't believe most ppl take music this litterally.
>Apparently, I still have some faith in humanity.
>
>Don't ask me why.
>
>
>
>
>they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because he
>>lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the
>>music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to
>>MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard
>>than fans of other music
>>
>>No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at UPS
>>or as a security guard before his music career began...we
>>certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music becaue
>>of it
>>
>>
>>>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>>>a lot of fans probably do though
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>>>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>>>
>>>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of it.
>
>>>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael
>>jackson
>>>but hey...
>>>
>>>This ain't my world anymore.
>>
>

I remember ppl arguing biggie vs pac
like ppl argued prince vs MJ.

I remember fans being sad at a tragic loss of two great artists.

What I don't remember, though, is anybody that was not about that life
starting up with that life
because pac rapped about it sometimes.


Seriously, it's just music.
And I halfway believe music is god.

But damn.



>remind you of the East coast vs West coast beef that nearly
>caused an irreparable split in the music...and it wasn't just
>the respective crews (Death Row vs Bad Boy) who were at war
>w/one another but THE PPL/FANS of those 2 record
>labels/artists who were also personalizing that beef...
>
>
>
>>I still don't believe most ppl take music this litterally.
>>Apparently, I still have some faith in humanity.
>>
>>Don't ask me why.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because he
>>>lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the
>>>music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to
>>>MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard
>>>than fans of other music
>>>
>>>No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at
>UPS
>>>or as a security guard before his music career began...we
>>>certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music
>becaue
>>>of it
>>>
>>>
>>>>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>>>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>>>>a lot of fans probably do though
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>>>>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>>>>
>>>>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of
>it.
>>
>>>>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael
>>>jackson
>>>>but hey...
>>>>
>>>>This ain't my world anymore.
>>>
>>
>

>I remember ppl arguing biggie vs pac
>like ppl argued prince vs MJ.
>
>I remember fans being sad at a tragic loss of two great
>artists.
>
>What I don't remember, though, is anybody that was not about
>that life
>starting up with that life
>because pac rapped about it sometimes.
>
>
>Seriously, it's just music.
>And I halfway believe music is god.
>
>But damn.
>
>
>
>>remind you of the East coast vs West coast beef that nearly
>>caused an irreparable split in the music...and it wasn't
>just
>>the respective crews (Death Row vs Bad Boy) who were at war
>>w/one another but THE PPL/FANS of those 2 record
>>labels/artists who were also personalizing that beef...
>>
>>
>>
>>>I still don't believe most ppl take music this litterally.
>>>Apparently, I still have some faith in humanity.
>>>
>>>Don't ask me why.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>they won't buy or even listen to Ric Ross's music because
>he
>>>>lied abt being a CO is an example of how listeners of the
>>>>music see authenticity as the holy grail when it comes to
>>>>MCs...and fans hold HipHop artists to a different standard
>>>>than fans of other music
>>>>
>>>>No one would care if Luther Vandross lied abt working at
>>UPS
>>>>or as a security guard before his music career began...we
>>>>certainly wouldn't stop listening or buying his music
>>becaue
>>>>of it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>basically transporting drugs into jail etc
>>>>>>i guess it happens, i don't believe him
>>>>>>a lot of fans probably do though
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe that is why he's popular.
>>>>>Maybe ppl aren't turning to him for sage wisdom.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe they like his shitty music, and that's the end of
>>it.
>>>
>>>>>It would be nice if all the clubs still played michael
>>>>jackson
>>>>>but hey...
>>>>>
>>>>>This ain't my world anymore.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

that shit was too real back when that East vs West was bubbling...

>that shit was too real back when that East vs West was
>bubbling...
>



I remember being in school at the time.
Kids did typical kid shit.

Fighting, cussing, getting in trouble, cutting class.
Sometimes wearing colors if they wanted to pretend they were in a gang.

I don't remember serious beef in high school busting out
over pac and biggie.

I remember kids being kids.
But maybe I wasn't real.

Maybe kid thugs were wilding elsewhere.

but maybe folks in the hood were shooting because pac and big died.
tell me about how that went down around your way.

everyone knows the only people who commit crime or violence are in gangs...

so i was right in the thick of the demographic that was allegedly jumping that shit off.

and i didn't know a single person who ever set tripped on some East/West shit. not a real person living real life.

i heard that rappers had beef and some of their crews had beef. but no one in my world back then (or the kids i tutored b/c i used to tutor after school back then) was involved in that East/West shit. except for buying CDs and tickets to shows, of course.

so it wasn't 'too real' in my world.

...unless you were a part of Puffy or Tupac's entourage or something. No one else felt the slightest bit threatened about that whole thing.

>
> ...unless you were a part of Puffy or Tupac's entourage or
>something. No one else felt the slightest bit threatened about
>that whole thing.
>


it was real in my hood.
ppl in my crew died over it.

coming from the labels themselves???

There were no 'regular dudes' who made themselves a part of that beef?

Nevermind, we've seen documentaries that dicussed how that beef spilled over into the streets amongst the fans of those two artists/labels,

Just because YOU didn't see it or experience it withing your circles doesn't mean that there were real threats made by ppl that didn't have any affiliation with these artists other than just being a fan.


> ...unless you were a part of Puffy or Tupac's entourage or
>something. No one else felt the slightest bit threatened about
>that whole thing.
>

LOL

.

ever

No wonder he thinks they are lost.

>much less the avg. teen
>much less the avg. black inner city teen scoring 1000 on the
>SATS
>cmon
>

they might not know the words "hyperbole" and "irony",
but trust me, they know what the shit is.


>and yes rap fans tend to take lyrics seriously and literally
>sad to say
>that's why street cred is so important in the genre
>did you forget the controversy behind rick ross being a CO and
>not a former Zoe general?


Credibility is important in every genre, player.

Country artists grew up south of Bakersfield.
Soul artists grew up in the church.
Punk fans hate the police because sting was a poser.

etc...

none of this is unique to rap.


And again... as stupid as I think ppl are...
even I don't think eminem and lil wayne are viewed as life coaches
by ppl that listen to the music.

That would be like a white kid taking advice from ac/dc.



How dumb do you think black kids are?

>How dumb do you think black kids are?

it's about being influenced by stuff that's popular in your community
rap shapes the narrative for all of that in many cases
there are white kids who changed their whole identity based off of the culture surrounding music genres (goth and grunge say hi)
smh

>
>>How dumb do you think black kids are?
>
>it's about being influenced by stuff that's popular in your
>community
>rap shapes the narrative for all of that in many cases
>there are white kids who changed their whole identity based
>off of the culture surrounding music genres (goth and grunge
>say hi)



Yet they didn't off themselves like kurt cobaine.

Never before have we ever expected the artists to actually live the life(style) they were rapping/singing abt except in HipHop....and in a HipHop, when ppl find out you are a fraud there's a social and commercial price to pay...or at least that's how it once was

Authenticity in HipHop is EVERYTHING and that translates to the listeners to...because this is what makes HipHop more than just a music genre but a cultural institution because it does directly influence behavior


>>How dumb do you think black kids are?
>
>it's about being influenced by stuff that's popular in your
>community
>rap shapes the narrative for all of that in many cases
>there are white kids who changed their whole identity based
>off of the culture surrounding music genres (goth and grunge
>say hi)
>smh

>Never before have we ever expected the artists to actually
>live their life(style) their rapping/singing abt...and in a
>HipHop, when ppl find out you are a fraud there's a social and
>commercial price to pay...or at least that's how it once was
>
>Authenticity in HipHop is EVERYTHING and that translates to
>the listeners to...because this is what makes HipHop more than
>just a music genre but a cultural institution because it does
>directly influence behavior
>


apparently, rap need not be a biography.
and kids can accept it.

Go figure.




>
>>>How dumb do you think black kids are?
>>
>>it's about being influenced by stuff that's popular in your
>>community
>>rap shapes the narrative for all of that in many cases
>>there are white kids who changed their whole identity based
>>off of the culture surrounding music genres (goth and grunge
>>say hi)
>>smh
>

and in Country. and even in Jazz.

the same. shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poseur

vonpea.com

lol..

man..

why yo' musics makka de kids shoot da peopless

way too much tv

*plays skee-lo record backwards*
*kills and eats my boss*

even if the messenger wasn't a well-established moron, the premise is so dumb it's not even worth discussing.

call of duty is destroying the middle east peace process. just in the last ten years though. discuss.

For American black people in the past decade(s), violent crime is down and educational attainment is up. The trends are even better for young black people, presumably the people who would be most swayed by the content in hip-hop songs. Teen pregnancy and juvenile violence/arrests are down and continuing to fall. Less kids are dropping out of high school, and more are going to college and graduating. If hip-hop is damaging black people, the effect is so subtle that it doesn't actually show up in any statistics. That is to say, the effect is so subtle that there's no evidence that it even exists.

Also, the ten year cut-off is arbitrary. It's not like hip-hop has gotten appreciably more violent or ignorant in the past 10 years. If you really want to make the case that violent/ignorant has a negative affect on black people, you should be able to show that affect dating back to when violent/ignorant hip-hop became a major part of black culture, which I would say is at least 20-25 years ago. Interestingly, the inflection point for a lot of the negative trends for black people - particularly violent crime and juvenile delinquency - seems to come around 20-25 years ago. If we were as simple as a Fox News commentator, we might see that and conclude that hip-hop is responsible for this turnaround. But we're smarter than that, and know that these are complex problems with origins that run deeper than the lyrics of a simple rap song.

Some references:
http://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05261
http://tinyurl.com/br5nlcs
http://www.childtrends.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/01_Fig1.jpg
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2014/04/FT_14.04.23_collegeRace_enrollTrend-640-2.png
http://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/education/data/cps/historical/fig8.jpg

I quit my job to sell Coco based on that song. And I stopped hanging around my broke childhood friends after 2 Chainz made I'm different.

.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I want to point out that African-Americans have the highest percentage of college graduates amongst all races in the United States of America. This refutes Geraldo's statement by itself.

We're disproportionately targeted police so of course numbers look higher than others. We're not going to gloss over the effect racism has on the overall well being of people of color in this country.

saying its not in the forefront anymore is one thing

but to say its not made anymore at all is an outright lie

the only part of the conversation that pisses me off
are the ones that complain about the lack of conscious HH
but given current examples, they wont support it

How you got the wherewithal to be on a message board but only listen to radio?

Maaaaaan....

Yes, there's a lot of good music out there

And yes, most of the us on here who are in our 30s and 40s (and older), know where to seek out a HipHop/music alternative to what's played on mainstream radio

But

This ain't us on OKP - we're talking abt the average blk teenager between 14-18 living on the westside of Atlanta or in Bed Stuy or in the 9th Ward of NOLA or on the southside of Chicago who usually listen to what or whoever is hot in the streets which is usually an artists that has some mainstream appeal...

we don't look down at them or their ability to distinguish reality from entertainment.

>we don't look down at them or their ability to distinguish
>reality from entertainment.
>
>

>

http://www.dunhamandcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/HoldingUpTheMirror.jpg

The kid who is stuck listening to radio, only, got way more economic issues affecting their lives than *insert-your-least-favorite-new-rapper*.

The kids who aren't stuck listening to radio tend to have more options all the way around, beyond music choice, so the antics of Weezy F Baby means less to them than their Momma's performance review.

Look, you know what all of this focus on hiphop and youth in the past 20 years REALLY seems like?

A culture that's to afraid to challenge the social institutions that are killing us and would rather waste time chasing after interchangeable 20 year old pop acts

>The kid who is stuck listening to radio, only, got way more
>economic issues affecting their lives than
>*insert-your-least-favorite-new-rapper*.

But no one is saying that HipHop culture alone is solely responsible for all that's wrong with blk America...but to act as if a lot of the HipHop music specifically and the culture in general doesn't impact the lives of many of its *young* listeners in a negative way is being willfully naive at best and disingenuous at worse
>
>The kids who aren't stuck listening to radio tend to have more
>options all the way around, beyond music choice, so the antics
>of Weezy F Baby means less to them than their Momma's
>performance review.

First of all, kids today don't just listen to the radio anymore, they're more up on ways to access the music they want to hear than we (their parents) are...and I can tell you that most teens I tutored in an at-risk program wasn't listening to Lupe Fiasco...they seem to invariably prefer the more hardcore rap music that in some sways gives them some sort of validation...

>Look, you know what all of this focus on hiphop and youth in
>the past 20 years REALLY seems like?
>
>A culture that's to afraid to challenge the social
>institutions that are killing us and would rather waste time
>chasing after interchangeable 20 year old pop acts

And to show you how two ppl can look at the very same thing and come away w/two totally differnt observations...because I see this as blk ppl still unwilling to chellenge OURSELVES...because we as a community don't have any workable solutions to any of our problems, therefore it's easier to lay the blame at the larger society as if we don't bare any social responsibility..thus the reason why we can rally en mass when a policeman or some over zealous wanna be cop kills a teen but we as a community are for the most part silent when it comes to rallying ans organizing to stop the killings in Chicago

Becaus it's ALWAYS easier to blame someone else for problems that you're still responsible for solving no matter who's to blame

At what point do we start taking some accountability for the part we play in our own destruction

>And to show you how two ppl can look at the very same thing
>and come away w/two totally differnt observations...because I
>see this as blk ppl still unwilling to chellenge
>OURSELVES...because we as a community don't have any workable
>solutions to any of our problems, therefore it's easier to lay
>the blame at the larger society as if we don't bare any social
>responsibility..thus the reason why we can rally en mass when
>a policeman or some over zealous wanna be cop kills a teen but
>we as a community are for the most part silent when it comes
>to rallying ans organizing to stop the killings in Chicago

i have attended rallies here in Chicago where ppl organized as a community to speak out against violence and killings in Chicago committed by Black teens.

so STFU w/this mess.

there are ppl on the ground right now working on that issue. the fact that you don't see those rallies covered on MSNBC or HuffPo doesn't mean they aren't happening.

speak on what you know.

Where are the nation-wide bus trips taking ppl to Chicago to protest in the streets....


>i have attended rallies here in Chicago where ppl organized as
>a community to speak out against violence and killings in
>Chicago committed by Black teens.
>
>so STFU w/this mess.

No, fuckboy, you need to STFU because I'm not taking abt ppl organizing *locally* I'm talking abt rallies taking place throughout the country like in the case w/Trayvon and Mike Brown...and when Barack Obama says as heinous as those killings are, a blk teen is still more likely to be killed by someone who looks like him than he will by a cop...how many of us didn't want to hear that because it interfered w/our narrative of victim hood


>
>there are ppl on the ground right now working on that issue.
>the fact that you don't see those rallies covered on MSNBC or
>HuffPo doesn't mean they aren't happening.
>
>speak on what you know.

The blk community as a whole hasn't shown 1/3rd of the concern that it does when blk teens are murderd by policemen - and this is what I KNOW...I've been following what's going on in Chicago before it became a national news story and many ppl who live there say they feel that the local and federal authorities are not giving enough attention to this crisis...so you need to take whatever your misplaced gripe up with ppl who have are being affected directly w/what's going on...


>

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/black_community_is_concerned_with_black_on_black_crime_suggesting_otherwise.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/

>http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/black_community_is_concerned_with_black_on_black_crime_suggesting_otherwise.html
>
>http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/

are ppl getting on buses from New Orleans and Detroit and Los Angeles to rally in Chicago about Chicago's gun problem? not on a large scale. is that an indictment of the black community? does that mean that blacks don't care about black on black violence? no. does that mean blacks don't take responsibility to address violence w/in our community? no. the articles talked about steps taken by various black communities to address gun violence w/in those communities.

the rallying about Trayvon happened b/c the COMMUNITY ASKED PPL TO COME HELP THEM BRING ATTENTION TO THE CASE BECAUSE IT SEEMED THERE MIGHT NOT BE A CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST ZIMMERMAN W/O THE ATTENTION.

the rallying around Mike Brown happened b/c the COMMUNITY ASKED PPL TO COME HELP THEM BRING ATTENTION TO THE CASE BECAUSE IT SEEMED THERE MIGHT NOT BE A CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST WILSON W/O THE ATTENTION.

and w/this. i'm done talking to you about this, player. you don't get it, you won't get it from this conversation.

>are ppl getting on buses from New Orleans and Detroit and Los
>Angeles to rally in Chicago about Chicago's gun problem? not
>on a large scale.

I've never heard anyone sponsoring a bus ride to Chicago to protest what's goung on with the gun violence...


> is that an indictment of the black
>community?

Yes


>does that mean that blacks don't care about black
>on black violence? no. does that mean blacks don't take
>responsibility to address violence w/in our community? no.
>the articles talked about steps taken by various black
>communities to address gun violence w/in those communities.

Taking steps for an age-old problem that has persisted for decades illustrates that for those of us who a aren't directly affected by the problem that the problem isn't as urgent as it for those in. Chicago ...we should be beyond "taking steps" by now. But that highlights what I've been saying in this post abt the overall blk community not having the same outrage when it's blk on blk violence vs non-blk on blk violence
>
>the rallying about Trayvon happened b/c the COMMUNITY ASKED
>PPL TO COME HELP THEM BRING ATTENTION TO THE CASE BECAUSE IT
>SEEMED THERE MIGHT NOT BE A CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST ZIMMERMAN
>W/O THE ATTENTION.

No, they asked civil leaders and other community activists to bring attention to the case, they didn't put out a call for ALL blk ppl to rally for what was happening in Florida. The more the case became known the more blk ppl throughout the country got involved and created movements around the country, something I've yet to see in regards to the Chicago crisis....
>
>the rallying around Mike Brown happened b/c the COMMUNITY
>ASKED PPL TO COME HELP THEM BRING ATTENTION TO THE CASE
>BECAUSE IT SEEMED THERE MIGHT NOT BE A CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST
>WILSON W/O THE ATTENTION.

That is not true...at all...ppl got involved because the murder of a Mike brown, unlike Trayvon Martin, immediately became a *nationally news story* from the start which is why ppl around the country got involved.


>and w/this. i'm done talking to you about this, player. you
>don't get it, you won't get it from this conversation.

Good - because for someone that is a lawyer you aren't the most reasonable person...and I won't "get" the nonsense you're spewing because you don't know WTH you're taking abt... Neither will I "get" how anyone can say w/a straightface that pop CULTURE doesn't have any influence over youth...if that's the case the we need to do away w/the word 'culture'

>>http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/black_community_is_concerned_with_black_on_black_crime_suggesting_otherwise.html
>>
>>http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/
>

Blacks in America, as collective data point, have never been more educated, healthier, financially successful, or socially mobile

record level lows of teen pregnancy, gang affiliation and violence, and drop out rates. again LOWS!

and even with that, Blacks (men and woman) are still the most incarcerated (though nearly 70% are for NON VIOLENT CRIMES), more likely to get suspended than their white peers in school, and still socially stigmatized and criminalized in media narratives and popular cultural productions

and even those numbers / statistics represent only 5-25% of the "community"

also Blacks who are educated and fully employed HAVE LESS NET WORTH than their white counterparts WITH HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS

BUT RAP....

FUCK. OUTTA. HERE.

during the economic recession and are still trying to recover from it were all lies

We are keeping pace with other groups socially/educationally/economically...who knew

And I assume ALL blk teens are doing just fine, too


>Blacks in America, as collective data point, have never been
>more educated, healthier, financially successful, or socially
>mobile
>
>record level lows of teen pregnancy, gang affiliation and
>violence, and drop out rates. again LOWS!
>
>and even with that, Blacks (men and woman) are still the most
>incarcerated (though nearly 70% are for NON VIOLENT CRIMES),
>more likely to get suspended than their white peers in school,
>and still socially stigmatized and criminalized in media
>narratives and popular cultural productions
>
>and even those numbers / statistics represent only 5-25% of
>the "community"
>
>also Blacks who are educated and fully employed HAVE LESS NET
>WORTH than their white counterparts WITH HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS
>
>BUT RAP....
>
>FUCK. OUTTA. HERE.
>
>

you literally just made my point

collectively at this moment in America, Blacks are "better off" materially, than at any other point

BUT by every metric they are still near the bottom of, or most effected by systems such as the prison industrial complex, quality education, under and unemployment, high-wage earning, police brutality, social stigmas

Rap has little to do with anything

one, this position you been taking doesn't give the most marginalized of America's poor communities any sort of agency

two, denies the fact that mainstream rap is just as vapid, insipid, materialist, dumb, violent, and disposable as ever other American cultural production

and three, does nothing to account for the white and non-Black consumers of rap and how it effects them

>you literally just made my point
>
>collectively at this moment in America, Blacks are "better
>off" materially, than at any other point

Better than who???? Are we keeping pace w/the other racial groups in terms of education and wealth building?

>
>BUT by every metric they are still near the bottom of, or most
>effected by systems such as the prison industrial complex,
>quality education, under and unemployment, high-wage earning,
>police brutality, social stigmas

And how do WE as a ppl unknowingly or willingly participate in our own destruction. Many of our youth especially play right into the social traps set by society
>
>Rap has little to do with anything

You and others keep rap as if HipHop is exclusively abt the music - HipHop, unlike other *music* genres, is a CULTURE...and CULTURE has everything to do w/how we see ourselves and the world around us...and it does influence the behavior of many youths in all the wrong ways...
>
>one, this position you been taking doesn't give the most
>marginalized of America's poor communities any sort of agency

The position I'm taking??? I'm the one who says we have to start being accountable for the things we can control within our community and that in and of itself will alleviate a lot of the problems we're still faced with from without...

>two, denies the fact that mainstream rap is just as vapid,
>insipid, materialist, dumb, violent, and disposable as ever
>other American cultural production

And the music right now is in large part responsible for dumbing down today's youth moreso than any other social institution in America...
>
>and three, does nothing to account for the white and non-Black
>consumers of rap and how it effects them

Because I don't interact wthose groups on a regular basis therefore I can't say how it affects them...and at present, those groups are not my immediate concern...

I'm concerned Negroe's plight...

>This ain't us on OKP - we're talking abt the average blk
>teenager between 14-18 living on the westside of Atlanta or in
>Bed Stuy or in the 9th Ward of NOLA or on the southside of
>Chicago who usually listen to what or whoever is hot in the
>streets which is usually an artists that has some mainstream
>appeal...


We know what effects hip-hop had on us and our peers back then. It's not much different than the effect it has on kids today.

They said this same bullshit back in the mid-80s. They said it again when "gangsta rap" got big in the 90s. They said it again when hip-hop videos were nothing but big asses, expensive cars & champagne. They're going to say it again about the next generation too.

a huge percentage of his generation of folks actually think hip hop itself IS the embodiment of all things black.. and that all things black equals hip hop..

aka drugs, crime, misogyny, violence..

and yeah.. that misguided perception is pretty fucking damaging.

and ironically.. is a huge contributor TO racism.



(i didn't click the link, so that would be my un-read comment, lol)


...

Vee is I and I am She

...

http://twitter.com/#!/Phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality
http://phenomenality.tumblr.com/archive

no one in history has ever needed hip-hop to justify their 'cism.

but I doubt it's a good thing to have non whites of African descent enamored with music that promotes the killing of that same group.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IPsXSb0jjkI/maxresdefault.jpg

I may even say the last 18 years, from the jiggy era to country coon ass southern rap thats still popular. Materialism and Senseless ass violence. 2 mainstays of hiphop now.


and i hate Geraldo but id have to agree with him.

His argument is essentially that hip hop pushes people out of the "mainstream", and that rests on both the assumption that hip hop isn't mainstream and that the mainstream itself is not just a better alternative for black and brown people, but that the mainstream in and of itself is good.

I reject both of those notions.

Hip hop is mainstream (why aren't all those white kids seeing those ill effects when they listen to hip hop too) and further more the "mainstream" culture is the problem. Stop singling out hip hop as if it is the only weak link in American culture, because I can point to example after example of American culture that promotes what conservative Americans would call anti-social values, but because they aren't dominated by AF-Am's and Latino's we'll just brush that shit aside.

Fuck Geraldo, and fuck anyone who is buying this bullshit.

Do they ever do a show or segment on what's ailing poor, disadvantaged white folk? What's the take on that?


http://youtu.be/S2S0zu3M0rY

his "hunt" for Osama lead nowhere and didn't bring him back to the limelight so now he's island hopping trying to find the next hot topic he can claim as his own. anybody taking this shit seriously needs to log off and take a nap.

long post about Geraldo?

CY you on a roll today huh?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

>long post about Geraldo?
>
>CY you on a roll today huh?
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"One of the most important things in life is what Judge
>Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to
>whether you're r