so i saw birdman last night.

no spoilers...but its a really interesting...meta kinda movie. took me a minute to get it. lets get amongst it

saw the following on fb
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204773114999093&set=a.1709923679297.87647.1574252626&type=1

our generation loves being single, cutting people off and not trusting anyone.

theres something to this. & by our im saying my 30-40+,

the younger than 25 young thug listening types are utterly doomed, we cant save em.

All the actors definitely did a great job. But I don't think it' lived up to all the hype it's getting. And that's a little unfair because if I feel like I'm judging it against other people's reactions. I'd be cool with Michael Keaton winning for best actor. And probably Ed Norton for best supporting actor. I think Emma Stone is up against much stiffer competition.

"Birdman" wa definitely better than "Boyhood" though. "Boyhood" was fine but it was one of the flattest movies I've ever seen. It just didn't do anything to move me.

Here it come.....



Watch out now.....












I'm finna ruin the WHOLE SHIT!....


It copped out at the end. He should've died when he jumped out of that window.

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I thought he did and she was looking up on some "he's happy and at peace now" shit

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EVERYBODY HERE IT COME





























COME ON.































i thought he actually flew.

"Now that he's got the success he wanted, he's *really* flying now!"

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shaq-face-3.jpg

Throughout the movie?

Or really moving things with his mind?

No. He was having a mental breakdown, and the Birdman was his internal monologue, in fact he was the birdman, that character had become "him"

The stage play was not just a last gasp at stardom it was a last chance for him to prove to himself that he was an "artist" that his work wasn't commercialized garbage, ie that he was Edward nortons character

However, he realized that he wasn't when the final scene kept ending in disaster culminating in his trot around the block in his drawls.

The public didn't give a shit until he was a spectacle. Until he literally shot off his nose to spite his face

In other words he was a joke, a punchline...not an artist. Not some great actor...but a hammy movie star...pretending.

And when he realized that he was...free. And chose to die.


does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

Specifically, the scene when he "flew" back to the theater and the cabbie chased after him to get his fare

To me, the fact that his daughter looked up & smiled is an indication that he finally got what he wanted (critical acclaim). He's flying (figuratively). I just don't think that having him jump out of the window made much sense.

i didn't pick up on that.

>I just don't think that having him jump out of the window made much sense.

Yeah I thought it was some kinda heavy handed symbolism to have the daughter look up. I guess it was too much of a downer for the movie to end with him splattered on the street as his daughter watched, even though we knew he wanted to die.

or i was supposed to accept it as real.

movie star on Broadway making a play based off one story about the most acclaimed collection of minimalist writer Raymond carver, that is told though MANY psychotic episodes (possible schizophrenia) where her is moving objects telephatically, talking to a menacing super hero character he played in a movie, trashing his shit and relationships, and flying. On top of being "one" long ass shot that movies from the POV of various characters in the film.

the short story "What We Talk About When We talk About Love" being symbolic for Riggin's (Keaton) own life within the movie

the movie being a metaphor for Keaton's own career trajectory, that Inarritu uses as a surrealist critique of modern story telling and the Hollywood system

means to me that you did not pay attention to the film

Riggs (Keaton) wants validation as an artist on Broadway, and not just some entertainer hack fallen out with the Hollywood system.

he gets that through his play, Carver's short story. the play Keaton, Watts, and Ed Norton are performing within the movie.

He gets that.

If it's real and he's dead, his spirit is free and his daughter understands that. All the psychological torment he went through in the movie, talking to the Birdman, trashing his room, on the verge of being broke, coming to terms with his failed relationship with his former wife. No Mas

if it's symbolic, metaphorical, and he truly is flying within the movie, the surreality has been established

but the movie is beyond that, it's about what artist endure and sacrifice to make art with the capital A, and how and when they compromise to appease the system

again, it wasn't a cop out, probably a bad choice, but cop out def not

>means to me that you did not pay attention to the film

yeah. plus i dum.

>Riggs (Keaton) wants validation as an artist on Broadway, and
>not just some entertainer hack fallen out with the Hollywood
>system.

oh. right. i had confused this w/Spiderman, dude.

>he gets that through his play, Carver's short story. the play
>Keaton, Watts, and Ed Norton are performing within the movie.
>
>
>He gets that.

well i sure didn't! thanks.

>If it's real and he's dead, his spirit is free and his
>daughter understands that. All the psychological torment he
>went through in the movie, talking to the Birdman, trashing
>his room, on the verge of being broke, coming to terms with
>his failed relationship with his former wife. No Mas

plus he's burning in hell. b/c he's a sinner.

>if it's symbolic, metaphorical, and he truly is flying within
>the movie, the surreality has been established

you mean like on Real Housewives?

>but the movie is beyond that, it's about what artist endure
>and sacrifice to make art with the capital A, and how and when
>they compromise to appease the system

yes. and homie was fighting for his soul b/c he'd sold it to Hollywood w/the Birdman work.

>again, it wasn't a cop out, probably a bad choice, but cop out
>def not

word.

you're just an a-hole, like me. never change

he flew there but the cab still wanted his money.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

You can't ask for ambiguity in an ending when you definitively sacrificed that ambiguity earlier. That's my opinion, at least. Stick to the surreal ambiguity or don't. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

give me a why to as a work a fiction having to follow some rules you just pulled out the sky

b/c otherwise....

.

The film set its own rules.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i didn't see this as magical realism but a view from inside the mind of someone losing it. there's only this type of stuff from his perspective so it's not like we're in a magical realism world. the cab scene is just a reminder of that fact, imo to set up the final scene so there's no ambiguity that he's dead.


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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

he died.

but...it's been established i dum and didn't pay attention to the movie b/c i dum.

but whatever i saw when i saw that last scene i didn't know if he was dead. and my mother saw the movie w/me and i guess she dum to b/c neither of us was sure if he'd died. but mom is only well-versed in fiction and loves magic realism so maybe she didn't get it either.

Which is what makes the uplifting tone of the final beat so perplexing.

Or, rather, it perplexed me upon my initial view. I thought it was pretty clear he had Stone look up in hopes of achieving pseudo-spiritual ambiguity. But since there was no ambiguity regarding the surrealism, it made the decision all the stranger to me.

I suppose if you think Riggan is a shitty artist and that he'll never do any better than that show, then it makes sense for him to want to "go out on a high note," of course... but why would his daughter be happy about it? She doesn't have motivation to be overjoyed with her dad's suicide, does she?

the relationship with his ex and his daughter shown in the movie also illustrate that. but the scene where he admits it...

he tried to kill himself unsuccessfully only to wake up and find he might be more famous than ever now. he doesn't want that.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

everything that happened after the CUT is a dream.

Riggan would WANT his daughter to be happy about the suicide. he would want to have survived shooting himself in the head in front of a live audience and to have another chance at making her and everyone feel better about his choice. also he may have feared that he couldn't even commit suicide correctly and maybe that fear influenced his post-death dream.

but i dum so i dunno. i didn't pay attention to the movie.

The "this is a dream" film interpretation is a popular one whenever there's something that doesn't make sense on the screen. I think Inarritu would've mentioned that the end was a dream in an interview somewhere if that was the case. He's been pretty open about saying that he wanted the end to be ambiguous.

But I agree that ending makes the most sense. I don't think you not seeing that is dumb-- the idea that the ending is a series of flashes before his eyes isn't firmly established on the screen, so not seeing it makes sense. It's a take that one would need to be specifically looking for. (I'll specifically look for it on my re-watch to see if it's firmly established on screen... but, again, I suspect it isn't.)

(I'm also inclined to say I shouldn't be debating the particulars of a film I haven't seen in four months, so it's very possible others will present evidence that has simply left my mind.)

and now i kinda wanna see it again to find if i agree w/the interpretations i've read in here.

i dig it.

he is free from the torment

I didn't see anywhere in the film that she'd be happier if her dad was dead. But I haven't seen it in a while.

under the spotlight. she was happy he was free from that suffering. imo she empathized with it.


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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

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... but to say "it isn't rocket science" is to imply we're just some dumbasses for not seeing it the same way. People who are giving thoughtful responses about the reason they disliked the end of the film didn't "miss" anything-- they saw the film differently. Understanding that, I think, isn't rocket science.

Def not dumb

Its a complex film and it seems to have gone over your head, which is ok, and verified by how you replied to Binhalb below "see if I buy it". Lol. There is nothing to buy, it's one of the MANY explicit elements of the film which makes it brilliant TO ME

You seem to not want to understand that all the surreal elements are a product of his mind and Inarritu is playing within this scope to experiment with narrative, philosophize on art, and critique contemporary film making. Its suppose to be messy, aesthetically. That's part of the beauty alongisde the acting, the drumming soundtrack, and the humor.

The ending was TONALLY off, not thematically. That two minutes does not erase the rest of the film. Its was a great piece of art that also entertained. Only solidified why Inarritu is top 5 to me.

You needed / wanted something else, we dont

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hrm-rPSCIBw

... means I'm out of the convo, lol. One of the most patronizing expressions ever. I know you don't mean it that way, so I'll bow out gracefully from the conversation. Enjoy the post.

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We saw him flying and moving things with his mind but in "reality" he wasn't doing that because in reality...human beings cannot fly or move things with their minds

I think Inarritu having Stone look up, as if Keaton is flying, is his attempt to allow people to see a certain ambiguity-- the aforementioned magic realism-- that he undid by establishing firmly that every surreal thing he did/saw wasn't real. Which then leads me to wonder why the tone of the end of the film is so uplifting.

His daughter had a birds eye view of him unraveling over who knows how a period of time and recognized how utterly miserable he was and after he offed himself, she recognized that he was no longer suffering


does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

That still feels like an attempt at ambiguity.

But I'll look for that explanation to see if I buy it when I revisit the film.

>That still feels like an attempt at ambiguity.
>
>But I'll look for that explanation to see if I buy it when I
>revisit the film.

Overall I liked the movie but it would have been better if they STUCK the ending.

I really didn't get her looking up before but I can see the rationale now.

...

















...the ending was real. My interpretation: He shot himself onstage and died. Everything that follows in the film is in his mind the moments before he actually loses consciousness. In his idealized fantasy, he has critical acclaim, his family situation has improved (the love/respect of his daughter and his ex-wife by his side), etc.

This is also supported by the fact that the transition into the hospital scene is the first time in the entire movie where there is a cut and not part of the long continuous shot.

.

>This is also supported by the fact that the transition into
>the hospital scene is the first time in the entire movie where
>there is a cut and not part of the long continuous shot.

Keaton's performance was his best ever.

The drummed score was perfectly fitting--it's a got-damned shame the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences’ has considered it ineligible to compete for the award.

Emmanuel Lubezki's cinematography was cleverly shot (like the movie Rope), hes's the only nominee I'm rooting for, since Bradford Young wasn't nominated for Selma or A Most Violent Year.

it's a great movie. the best of 2014

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

saw it as part of the Best Picture Showcase at AMC this weekend, and maybe I was just too dumb to get it. Let me go back and read the replies in here, maybe I'll get enlightened.....




We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

these are some interesting discussions you guys are having about the ending of birdman. thing is, it doesn't much matter what the ending was about 'cause the movie wasn't even that good up to then. cold, gimmicky, and disjointed. go see whiplash instead.

It's good...but it's not my favorite of the year.

That's Whiplash.

But Boyhood comes close.

on what the daughter wanted to do but couldn't do. She was sitting on the roof all night thinking about doing the same thing.

What's up wit the ex-wife though.. was she real or imagined also? I don't really recall too well but it's as if nobody really acknowledged her or interacted with her except Keaton.

Like was she good cop to Birdman's bad cop? Was the daughter effed up because something bad happened to her mother? Or maybe it's just depression in the genes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnfAxUjRQAo

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

An ending that was designed to be purposefully ambiguous

________________________________________________________________________________
Your typing ain't as "incendiary" as you think it is.

goodness.

how can you stand it?

And say nothing of value, as per usual.

Dickhead.

________________________________________________________________________________
Your typing ain't as "incendiary" as you think it is.

i can see it being nominated for best actor but, NOT best picture.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
instagram:
http://instagram.com/0kayndc

"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"

that looks super enticing, and you want to tell all your friends about it afterward, but when you really think about the experience it was just another burger. and you're left curious how it could've been just another burger considering how unique it was on paper.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

optimists could say he flew (or escaped the hospital to catch a cab much like when he jumped off the building earlier)

nihilists could believe he succeeded at suicide despite shooting off his nose and becoming a respected actor or that he died the first time he jumped off the building and that the rest of the movie was how he wanted his career to end up

the one point I'll refuse to budge on - no one reacts smiling at the realization a loved one committed suicide

so maybe Sam's mind lived in the same imaginary world where him escaping the hospital meant flying

he spent the whole movie imagining things (the action movie/national guard sequence), a suicide should have been made clear and transparent if that was the case

but the film's creators cop to being intentionally vague, so there is no right answer http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/birdman-ending_n_6219290.html

SoWhat will be following my response to "check me" with some pithy sarcasm regarding the use of the arrow of agreement in the subject line

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Your typing ain't as "incendiary" as you think it is.

And that means basically arguing. If you didn't want to do that you wouldn't have replied. But you did because you wanted to let others know how you felt...abt how they felt. While preemptively dismissing their counter arguments.

Moral of the story is: whores get some business. Preferably elsewhere.

Thanks!

- mgmt

but please read for comprehension and not just type whatever comes to your mind

my reply didn't have an opinion on what happened in the end or even how I felt about the movie itself (I loved it, for the record)

I said the ending is subject to interpretation meaning no one is correct, then I placed a link to an article where the creators said there was no definitive ending

maybe you *need* to feel like it ended a certain way, Im fine with the ambiguity. for me it ended as a movie with characters who were greatly flawed human beings, good dialogue and cool special effects

something happened and no one has the right answer. all we know is it ended and the credits rolled much like the Sopranos ending (does Tony get killed or is he forever living on guard against someone coming for him). it's okay to not have a neat and clean finish if the rest was done well, which it was to me.