The documentary 25 to Life about him is streaming on Netflix. Caught at ABFF Festival Last year. It's pretty great and have been waiting to discuss it here. Please check it out. Support the Homey Mike Brown.

http://goo.gl/FDsKMJ


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

i wish he'd used them b/c then it wouldn't have mattered if he disclosed or not.

i also wish his sex partners had insisted on him using them b/c then it wouldn't have mattered if he'd disclosed or not.

but i haven't seen the documentary so i dunno what place condoms have in his story. these are my assumptions when i've heard the little of his story i know.

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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

by making failure to disclose poz status before sex a criminal act. i think such laws are completely abhorrent and that they only act to increase HIV stigma and don't actually encourage the desired behavior - disclosure of poz status.

so i'm glad that this guy hasn't been criminally charged for his conduct, AFAIK.

and now that HIV has become such a manageable disease and ppl who get treatment are often able to reduce their viral loads to undetectable which grossly decreases the chance that they will infect anyone...why are we still freaking out about HIV? i assume it's b/c ppl aren't aware of the advances in medz. also, those of us who are negative can take PREP and if we have sex w/a poz partner w/an undetectable viral load the risk of transmission is reduced by 92%. so why panic?

it's not a death sentence. it hasn't been for yrs. we need to chill.

However if a person had the mens rea (is that the word?) to set out and infect someone, that is a criminal act IMHOP.

Generally speaking though I think you probably have a moral obligation to disclose to a sexual partner something that you reasonably believe that they would want to know that is sexually related and may affect their health and/or their decision to want to have sex with you.

If you know that they may not want to have sex with you if they found out you are married, morally speaking you should probably tell them.

Same with HIV status. Minimizing the risk by 94% does not minimize the risk to zero which would be the risk status if a person chose to not have sex with you.


>by making failure to disclose poz status before sex a
>criminal act. i think such laws are completely abhorrent and
>that they only act to increase HIV stigma and don't actually
>encourage the desired behavior - disclosure of poz status.
>
>so i'm glad that this guy hasn't been criminally charged for
>his conduct, AFAIK.
>
>and now that HIV has become such a manageable disease and ppl
>who get treatment are often able to reduce their viral loads
>to undetectable which grossly decreases the chance that they
>will infect anyone...why are we still freaking out about HIV?
>i assume it's b/c ppl aren't aware of the advances in medz.
>also, those of us who are negative can take PREP and if we
>have sex w/a poz partner w/an undetectable viral load the risk
>of transmission is reduced by 92%. so why panic?
>
>it's not a death sentence. it hasn't been for yrs. we need
>to chill.


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

>However if a person had the mens rea (is that the word?) to
>set out and infect someone, that is a criminal act IMHOP.

would you say the same about syphilis?

what if a woman had sex w/a man who didn't want to impregnate her but she intended to get pregnant anyway and did so by deception. should she be labeled a criminal?

>Generally speaking though I think you probably have a moral
>obligation to disclose to a sexual partner something that you
>reasonably believe that they would want to know that is
>sexually related and may affect their health and/or their
>decision to want to have sex with you.

i don't think so at all. i think that each of us has a 'duty' to protect ourselves. and i think that poz folks who don't want to disclose their status should insist on safer sex practices that minimize their partner's risk. and it's up to their partner to take it from there.

>If you know that they may not want to have sex with you if
>they found out you are married, morally speaking you should
>probably tell them.

should the person who fails to disclose marital status be labeled a criminal for the failure?

i don't think any of the acts i've mentioned should be criminalized b/c the criminalization will not curb the behavior. in fact it may increase it. plus it will definitely increase the stigma attached to HIV in particular. b/c it will communicate to the dummies among us that poz status itself is criminal or illegal. plus it'll add more folks to our already overcrowded jails and prisons. plus it'll add more cases to the judicial system which is already over burdened. meanwhile HIV won't be eradicated and will still be transmitted.

if we want to curb HIV transmission we should focus on scientific research to create new prevention and care methods (like PREP, for example) and public awareness campaigns that encourage ppl to use the various prevention and care methods. handing out criminal convictions won't stop or diminish the spreading of HIV.

>Same with HIV status. Minimizing the risk by 94% does not
>minimize the risk to zero which would be the risk status if a
>person chose to not have sex with you.

the risk can also be reduced to 0 by choosing safer sex acts.

and that risk of transmission gets even lower if the partners use condoms. it's at 94% w/o condoms.

If a person purposely went around and had sex with people for the purpose of giving them syphilis, yeah that is a reasonable basis for saying a crime has been committed. Same for Gonorrhea or any other disease. I think the same would be true for a lab technician who was doing it with a needle.

pregnancy scenario you are mentioning is slightly different because it doesn't involve doing physical harm to the victim. I could definitely see it as a basis for a tort if I can prove that you intentionally made representations about birth control (or poked holes in my condom) andt at the same time the victim can prove that the person's real intent was to get pregnant.

the married example is like the pregnancy example but is even but even harder to justify a criminal act or even a tort because what are the damages?

You really don't believe a person has a moral obligation to tell a sex partner that they are married?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

i dunno. maybe.

either way, i don't want to see the law used to enforce that moral obligation.

i don't like the idea of criminalizing transmission of STI's but i am kinda okay w/criminalizing if ppl have outright lied about their status. like if asked about HIV or syphilis and the person lies about it then there's deception and that's not cool. but even that shouldn't be a crime, i say. b/c...for what? why should that be a criminal act? what purpose is served by criminalizing that conduct?

And you can still contract HIV through oral sex, unless you're using condoms for that as well ( which most ppl arent.)

I agree the criminalization of not disclosing your status if you're pos adds to the stigma. But a pos status isn't a deal breaker for everyone and some people aren't all ew about it, so they should take that into consideration as well.

Lastly parties that contract HIV by failure to use protection or failure to even ask the person's status need to accept responsibility as well.

i hadn't read your reply b/c i was so busy rolling my eyes

>Lastly parties that contract HIV by failure to use protection
>or failure to even ask the person's status need to accept
>responsibility as well.


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

be flogged in the town square?

be branded w/a scarlet letter?

be publicly shamed on YouTube?

what is the point?

who gives a shit?

By taking responsibility I think she means not point fingers at the person who gave you the disease but taking responsibility that it was your own fault that you contracted the disease if you didn't wear protection of investigate the status of the person you are having sex with.

Ease up those trigger typing fingers.

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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/brief.html

Consistent and Correct Condom Use

To achieve maximum protection by using condoms, they must be used consistently and correctly.

The failure of condoms to protect against STD/HIV transmission usually results from inconsistent or incorrect use, rather than product failure.

Inconsistent or nonuse can lead to STD acquisition because transmission can occur with a single sex act with an infected partner.
Incorrect use diminishes the protective effect of condoms by leading to condom breakage, slippage, or leakage. Incorrect use more commonly entails a failure to use condoms throughout the entire sex act, from start (of sexual contact) to finish (after ejaculation).


How to Use a Condom Consistently and Correctly:

Use a new condom for every act of vaginal, anal and oral sex throughout the entire sex act (from start to finish). Before any genital contact, put the condom on the tip of the erect penis with the rolled side out.
If the condom does not have a reservoir tip, pinch the tip enough to leave a half-inch space for semen to collect. Holding the tip, unroll the condom all the way to the base of the erect penis.
After ejaculation and before the penis gets soft, grip the rim of the condom and carefully withdraw. Then gently pull the condom off the penis, making sure that semen doesn't spill out.
Wrap the condom in a tissue and throw it in the trash where others won't handle it.
If you feel the condom break at any point during sexual activity, stop immediately, withdraw, remove the broken condom, and put on a new condom.
Ensure that adequate lubrication is used during vaginal and anal sex, which might require water-based lubricants. Oil-based lubricants (e.g., petroleum jelly, shortening, mineral oil, massage oils, body lotions, and cooking oil) should not be used because they can weaken latex, causing breakage.

which was that if homie had used condoms CONSISTENTLY AND CORRECTLY his lack of disclosure wouldn't have mattered.

b/c condoms work.

they really do. i'm sorry you were educated about them by ppl who infected you w/scare tactic bullshit that has resulted in you distrusting condoms b/c 'they break'. but the 'they break' mantra is bullshit used to scare ppl from safer sex and into either abstinence or i dunno what. it's ludicrous.

yes, condoms work. period. the breaking issue isn't an issue when condoms are used correctly. and ppl often don't use them correctly b/c they're not taught how to use them. largely b/c schools and others aren't allowed to teach ppl how to use condoms. it's ridiculous.

they work. period.

Caught that on NPR last year.

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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

But according to the Doc, he did not infect anyone. Eventhough he had a long time girlfriend that he often did not use condoms with.

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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

and i'm trying to figure out why his story is a story if no one was infected by his behavior.

or maybe we just don't know if anyone was infected.

either way...i dunno.

i guess HIV awareness is always worth talking about. but i don't understand the pearl-clutching over homie's story if no one was infected. i guess it reinforces the reality that we can't spot HIV by looking. so it's important to practice safer sex (including condoms, partner choice, communication, activity choice, testing...but not necessarily all of those).

His story is a proxy for that.

At least for me because the eye opening thing about the documentary for me was that dude was having sex with so many people, with and without condoms, repeatedly and no one was infected.

It is a complicated story without a clear message, which makes for an excellent documentary. It is not a PSA about safe sex.


>and i'm trying to figure out why his story is a story if no
>one was infected by his behavior.
>
>or maybe we just don't know if anyone was infected.
>
>either way...i dunno.
>
>i guess HIV awareness is always worth talking about. but i
>don't understand the pearl-clutching over homie's story if no
>one was infected. i guess it reinforces the reality that we
>can't spot HIV by looking. so it's important to practice
>safer sex (including condoms, partner choice, communication,
>activity choice, testing...but not necessarily all of those).


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

well that sounds reckless and awful.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r