After how many dates do you expect her to pay? Ladies after how many dates do you offer to pay?

If she dosent offer to pay do you feel some type of way? Do you eventually just ask her to? Ladies if he asks/ expects you to pay, do you feel some type of way?

Is dutch a real thing on "dates" our here? Lol

Poll question: After how many dates should she offer to pay?

Poll result (41 votes) After the 1st date (14 votes) Vote After 2 dates (0 votes) Vote After 3-4 dates (6 votes) Vote After 5+ dates (1 votes) Vote I don't care (15 votes) Vote Other (5 votes) Vote

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

* is that a word... lol

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i'm reading this book Word Exchange about word flu when folk start losing language and making up words. shit is making me dumber.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

he also made up words and we still use them.

lol...

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

riiiight

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Cause I needs to know.

What does that include walks around the park or downtown? lmao

</entendre>

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

You planning on eating tomorrow. Gonna cook some food for yourself. Been dating a dude you like. Invite him over. Don't worry about your grocery bill.

I took my wife on a two mile hike up a mountain to watch the sunset for a date. There were transportation costs, food and wine etc, but I'd hardly think of that as paying for a date. Conversely she took me to a movie she'd already seen to share it with me. Sure she paid but that wasn't the point. The point of both dates was sharing with each other things that we love to see if there was compatability in them. AFter the second date all the impress shit should be over and it should be about actually getting to know each other and enjoying yourself. Anything else is uncivilized.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Are two completely different things. If we been dating im fine and cool with all that, especially if we're exclusive, im not cheap it petty about stuff like that.

i'm saying by #3 you should be initiating a date based on your interests so that by #4 it's been dating. if you both enjoyed his 1-2 and both enjoyed your 3 if you're looking for a relationship all them frivolous walls should come down and yall should be enjoying ya selves without worrying about protocol. if you not looking for a relationship, unless it's agreed fuck buddy shit, you should probably move on to the next, because someone's feelings gonna end up getting hurt.

#mathematics

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>i'm saying by #3 you should be initiating a date based on
>your interests so that by #4 it's been dating. if you both
>enjoyed his 1-2 and both enjoyed your 3 if you're looking for
>a relationship all them frivolous walls should come down and
>yall should be enjoying ya selves without worrying about
>protocol. if you not looking for a relationship, unless it's
>agreed fuck buddy shit, you should probably move on to the
>next, because someone's feelings gonna end up getting hurt.
>

Because date 4 could happen within a two week time span. Around the 3 or 4 month mark of consistently talking and spending time together, Id call that " been dating. "

cause once you fucked and then gone on another date yall either fuck buddies or dating, and if it's not estabished that yall are fuck buddies somebodies feelings getting hurt.

i'll add to that if you're looking for a relationship and doing 3-4 months of dating before you think the nature of your relationship has changed, they prolly ain't the one. not saying it can't happen. but real talk those is 3-4 months of someone not being real with themselves or the other person, which is a shitty way to start a relationship.

if you're just dating around, ditch em after 3 dates, change it to a fuck buddy relationship, or step up to the we're dating table because shit'll just get complicated and hurtful real quick.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

If someone is interested and approaches me, if I find them attractive or am interested in getting to know them then I'll oblige to go out on a date. If through the course of 2-3 dates or so we arent clicking or I become disinterested then I stop talking to them. I don't keep talking to people I don't like just for the hell of it.

There really is no definitive time frame but for me around 3 or 4 month mark if we're still talking consistently then im probably going to want something more serious and thus I am comfortable enough to commence with the intimacy.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Sometimes longer

that you do not enjoy sex, and are holding out for some strange reason.

also what the fuck are you waiting for "dating" some one for 3-4 months. it should be clear by date three if you want to be with this person seriously. also, if it's taking three months for date 3 or four, then they prob aint the right dude.

It's as simple as that.

from your answers below, bullshit

you're a princess who should be courted

Yes I expect to be courted. And if all goes well and I like him then intimacy is commenced, when Im ready.

.

.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reciprocation



Since 1976

from her after the second date are you really going to not call her and see what's up?

nope.

not calling after two dates is just the way most guys communicate they're not interested.

no matter how crazy i am about her, if she can't pick up the phone, then either she's not that interested, or sitting by the phone waiting on me scared to make the call herself aka not my type.

i'm happy.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

So I never look forward to it and assume I'm paying.

She should offer and he should decline.

He invited you somewhere, and she should offer to pay? For what? Cause it's a nice gesture? To prove she ain't a gold digger?

he brings his own ladder when he wants to reach her.

.

But thats only with my two bestfriends that Ive known forever. I dont extend that courtesy to associates, coworkers ect..

They also arent courting me, so then there's that.

This is why some guys think dating = paying for sex...because some women still expect men to spend money for the prospect of intimacy.

that men should pay. Its the least they could do.

:sips tea:

Thats something I cant decide within the first couple of dates.

and if it is i find it sad.

b/c it means you agree to dates w/guys you don't like. or guys where there's no interest. and that's an incredibly cynical approach to dating. and it confuses me.

so i don't think that's what you do.

i've been on dates where i wasn't sure how much i like the guy. and who paid wasn't a big deal. we split or one of us paid. it was done.

i've paid for dates w/guys that went no where. oh well. i lost nothing i couldn't afford.

i have no problem paying for dates.

hopefully you get to that point. or you don't. i dunno.

Black women for years have made almost as much and in this day make more than Black men, and tend to have more education as well

i don't do that w/my bestie. we pay for each other w/o thinking (if we got it) b/c we each know it'll come back. it may not come back monetarily but it'll come back.

he cooked dinner last night. that doesn't mean i owe him. he cooked b/c we were hungry and he had food. i don't now feel obligated to cook for him in return or to do anything. but i know when the time comes for me to offer him __ i will. it's not something i track.

ideally dating is like that. ppl doing for each other out of genuine feeling and not some arbitrary rule developed in the abstract.

And I wouldn't for my boyfriend either.

I would for associates and men I'm just "dating" or talking to tho.

Also, whoever invites should pay. Male or female.

For me the first date is usually mutual. I flirt with him, he picks up on it and flirts back. Then he eventually asks to continue the conversation. Its not usually one sided.

The " he asks to continue the conversation " part suggests that he's taking the lead/initiative.

I usually let the guy take the lead but many times I'm very active in letting the guy know I'm interested. So I dont really see it as he is trying to court me. We are courting each other.

the online part was a separate question.

If I ask you on a dinner date, I'm expecting to pay, but if you do that fake reach for the credit card, i'm gonna let you pay your share because either:

A) You are a game playing, always coming up with some kind of test, psycho OR
B) You valued my company and realize it's unfair for the man to be expected to pay, in which case I will make it explicitly clear on future dates that I want to treat you.

you've just decided to play your own game and make up rules only you know...

only because of all the a,b and c's


i just do b
i dont want no obligations
and i dont play games

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>She should offer and he should decline.

.

OR

its Dinner I pay

and then Drinks she pays

otherwise, I have no time for freeloaders.

Might indicate that you're cheap or have trust issues tho.

>Might indicate that you're cheap or have trust issues tho.

im actually into spending money on people I like

dates one to three are on shakey ground, you arent sure whats going on with the person, you arent sure where things are going so it does not make any sense at all to pull out all the stops at once

so, first date, I have no issue paying for

the second date I expect a bit of dutch action to happen

after that I have a better idea about where a person is coming from

and Hannah, I have dated a lot so it makes zero sense to come out the pocket all the time for a whole lot of maybe.

everytime I've gone full out things never work out so its a strategic play to remain in the black and sane

its smart sorting.



addendum, because this is OKP I do not mean that I am sitting and calculating and counting dates to the T, this is more of a general idea

its should be a fair back and forth really

what does that say about the person that doesn't want to pay ever?

To pay on the 2nd or 3rd date. You know, since were just making assumptions here.

>To pay on the 2nd or 3rd date. You know, since were just
>making assumptions here.

which does happen
lets not act super duper brand new.

its not even about the money. its about seeing if someone is the same page about making a connection.

some people...SOME people will just take advantage just because and thats not so cool.




you can be broke and freeload

but a freeloader does not equal poverty. its a character flaw

the two things do not equal each other.

Or Diddy or any kind of NBA Allstar. The average woman ain't looking to take to advantage of yall or make a come up, cut it out.

im talking about basic human nature and you are not hearing me.

i provide a sound response and you move the goal posts.

you need to date some more and see some more things.

every day is halloween, ho, trick or treat (c) short.

you don't have to have NBA money to be a come-up, or even MBA money.

y'all do everything you can to fuck it up. for no good reason.

sheesh.

I'm never dating again. Just hookers and loneliness

hookers suck, especially if you live in the states. loneliness really sucks.

i think a better alternative is to go find some fun girls who pay for a lot of things with the same coin and have a roster of them. That's how I have been happiest and I got the game from my old neighbor who had a stable like that. He got married now and he is miserable. Even so, I sometimes wonder what marriage would be like and have thought about with a couple of these girls that got more serious ... until I came to my senses, of course.

before I met my lady, dating was a horrible experience littered with SimplyHannah minds. I wanted to shoot myself

since the lady is damn near out the door... hookers and lonliness here I come, well does Tinder work for Black/Brown the way it does for whites? does it work for whites?

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Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

if only rats had such needlessly complicated courting rituals replete w/bullshit double standards supported by downright juvenile justifications. the rat population would be significantly lower!

I have no idea why this is a thing, but it is.

ideally both ppl in the dating scheme want to pay for things b/c they genuinely like each other and want to do for each other and not b/c they feel obligated or are afraid of being seen as __ or __. it should be natural. it shouldn't be complicated. if it's complicated the ppl involved should definitely be talking about the complications.

i dated a guy who made lots more money. i let him know i wanted to pay sometimes (b/c i liked him and wanted to do it) but that i couldn't pay as much as he could and i feared he would think i was taking advantage. i put it right on the table and we addressed the issue. we worked it out.

some of these people ain't got no sense though


"i wanna hug all u idiotic bastards & then set you all on fire" -Bin

www.twitter.com/bedstuybetty
http://bedstuybetty.tumblr.com/
DROkayplayer: Giving you good puff since May '05

>ideally both ppl in the dating scheme want to pay for things
>b/c they genuinely like each other and want to do for each
>other and not b/c they feel obligated or are afraid of being
>seen as __ or __. it should be natural. it shouldn't be
>complicated. if it's complicated the ppl involved should
>definitely be talking about the complications.
>
>i dated a guy who made lots more money. i let him know i
>wanted to pay sometimes (b/c i liked him and wanted to do it)
>but that i couldn't pay as much as he could and i feared he
>would think i was taking advantage. i put it right on the
>table and we addressed the issue. we worked it out.


it really shouldn't be this hard
and once i sense it getting hard
i'm out

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

If you're counting, there's a problem off top.

:shrugs: and clearly for some after a certain time frame if you dont, its problem.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter - when I'm dating or in a relationship there's always some give or take on who is paying. But there are determining factors, the least of which is how many dates we've been on thus far.

IMO, who pays is some balancing/weighing of:
1. who asked whom out (not determinant but highly influential)
2. what the activity is and how much it costs (you recommend dinner in a helicopter ride, I hope you got helicopter money)
3. each party's financial state (and whether they've made any hardships known to the other person)
4. special occasions (this is obvious - I just got a promotion, you're paying)
5. convenience (they only take cash and I'm the one with cash so I'm going to pay because, easier)
6. culture/belief (some men INSIST they get the bill even when you offer, to the point that offering is offensive to them)
THEN
6. how many times one person has gotten the bill vs. the other

.

Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 |
Nike, G-Star, Herschel, Adidas (Men's & Women's clothing)

>If you're counting, there's a problem off top.

won't be a 2nd or 3rd date if she doesn't dig in her purse when that check comes.

I don't give a shit if the purse is empty or filled with wooden nickels.

DIG IN THERE N FAKE IT!!!

(c) costanza

SIKE! I'm not kissing my wife. I don;t like her in that way.

.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

but I think it would be nice if she paid or at least offered to pay if she was the one to initiate/invite/plan the date.

I would not expect it, though.

i dont like empty gestures. her offering to pay on the first date, knowing i won't let her, and knowing she doesnt want to pay, doesnt let me know anything.

if after 5 dates she hasn't offered, then it's prolly not someone i want around. at least offer to leave the tip.

It can be an empty gesture and an indicator or absolutely nothing.

I've dated women who clearly liked me alot. In those cases, for the most part, I don't mind paying just about all the time.

It's when her interest in me is really unclear, even after a bunch of dates/time, that I resent having to pay all the time.

Cause for some men, paying for a date is. I think otherwise.

Her verbally telling you how much she likes you.

Her desire to communicate throughout the day.

Her doing things for you (cooking/cleaning/helping you with your work or school)

Physical stuff (anything from being touchy Feely all the way to sex)

Anything that involves her giving of herself in some way.

isn't a sign of interest?

unless she only does that for the niggas she can't wait to get rid of...it socially makes no sense for it not to be a good indication...

it shouldn't be the only...but yea...if a check stops me from grabbing my wallet...i'm thinking...

"damn, she likes me" or "damn, i must've been charming as fuck tonight" or "is this our last date?"

i would say sex is arguably only a slightly better indicator lol

Genuine interest or putting in work or whatever, which I don't think is necessarily true. Could be an indicator, could not be lol.

The guy is supposed to pay, so it's not nearly as meaningful when he does it. It's like showing up ton work on time everyday. You get no extra points for thar.

and mean it lol

I always let it be known if I'm out with ya, I'm willing to hold it down

but honestly just go dutch after a certain number of dates cuz keeping track can be a lil extra LOL



"i wanna hug all u idiotic bastards & then set you all on fire" -Bin

www.twitter.com/bedstuybetty
http://bedstuybetty.tumblr.com/
DROkayplayer: Giving you good puff since May '05

and have a guaranteed good time.

Cause I already know the gesture wouldnt be sincere if we're in the early phases of talking or dating.

fashion?

saves on all kinds of unneeded awkwardness


"i wanna hug all u idiotic bastards & then set you all on fire" -Bin

www.twitter.com/bedstuybetty
http://bedstuybetty.tumblr.com/
DROkayplayer: Giving you good puff since May '05

But as far as it stemming from a cold holla, I have no way of knowing that.

too risky


"i wanna hug all u idiotic bastards & then set you all on fire" -Bin

www.twitter.com/bedstuybetty
http://bedstuybetty.tumblr.com/
DROkayplayer: Giving you good puff since May '05

i used to get mad.
like legit really pissed.
when i was like 23.
now, if i can't afford to pay for everything
i won't ask a brawd out.
niggas that's fighting for the other way need to give up.
and if you meet a chick who actually down to pay and aint salty about it?
fucking.
marry.
her.

-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

You used to get mad about having to pay for everything? Lol

bc where I'm from and at the time I moved out here it wasn't just automatic
girls in nc always at least offered, even if they ain't mean it
just out of an unentitled courtesy
which in turn made me glad to pay
bc in my mind, she wasn't acting like me taking her out and giving her a nice time was her doing ME a favor

i don't give a shit anymore bc I'm old
but that shit had me salty as fuck at first


-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

without the physical aspect for the hetereo bro's. Think about it. You got a guy who is cool. You guys like the same stuff. You think heading to a football or basketball game is a great time. You both like video games. You don't care if the other person is pushing a later model car. In fact you bond over the tuning up the other has done on their car. You split the check cause that is what bro's do. You guys might as well date! Get yourself a gay friend or another hetero friend whom you would date and have at it. No touchy involved but you can look at my dick.

it ain't like we don't have our own struggles. but reading stuff like this - it's like, why is this so complicated?

y'all both like each other. you want to keep seeing each other. but there's all of these abstract rules that were developed w/o consideration of either of you or your relationship that get in the way of y'all's happiness. or, they can at least. ideally the rules don't interfere but instead facilitate a healthy relationship. but too often they just create blockage. for no good reason.

Most of this silliness is #youngfolksproblems, as is indicated by the poster.

but I couldn't mess with a youngin who never pays or offers to pay. Hell, she got to put in some work too.

Interesting.

is putting in work.

I cant ask a question?

A man can spend hella money on you and still not care or be genuinely interested. So I dont think spending money necessarily equates to putting in work.

So its interesting to see some ppl in here equate her spending money on a date to genuine interest or " putting in work " for lack of better words.

Of course it depends on her economic situation, but if she's able then yeah it's part of the putting in work process. For me, folks have to reciprocate effort.

that can be talked out. maybe.

I guess one has to take into account individual circumstances, but if she's able and just won't, that's just selfish, and I don't fool with selfish folks.

after he's paid for a while, setting the scene and dropping hints for meals or entertainment when they're bored.

"I'm hungry. Don't you want some (xyz restaurant or cuisine)??"

"Oooh, we should (take a trip, see a show, fill in the blank) Don't you want to do that??"

Your idea. You pay.

communicate.

'Yeah, I'd love to go to __. But I'm feeling a little used - this is my own feeling based on my history, our history and stuff I hear. I am fine w/paying for us to go to __ but first I want to alleviate this concern about being taken advantage. Can we talk about it?'

^ or som'n like that. talk it out. w/her.

Alot of women, good, decent, awesome women, will feel offended and affronted if a dude tries to force that convo on them, on some "how dare you!" type stuff. They've been taught that they're entitled to be taken out most of the time and that any man who has a problem with that is a bum.

There's some things you have to finesse, especially if you haven't hit yet. It can get tricky.

it's patently ridiculous to date someone, have a strong feeling about a serious issue but not communicate it out of fear.

i mean, that's what life is...ppl do that shit all the time. and it's patently ridiculous.

communication is key to a healthy relationship. if y'all can't talk about this issue early on in the relationship* then it was likely doomed from the start* and it's best that it blew up early.

*...only death kills marriages more than money issues.

if she can't talk about her feelings like an adult then she's not ready to date like an adult.

not talk about it and then act out in ways that will harm the relationship later?

sure. that makes lots of sense.

Ive definately felt it, you want to bring up a serious topic that involves your worry about her actions and the first reaponse you get is: soooo are you saying im a bad a,b,c. Its a horrible outcome because you will never recover, and she will bring that shit up every time you make a mistake

If you were a Woman you would love that setup, the power to auto-veto anything your man says because you dont like it

What you said is not true of all women. If you are mature enough to properly address an issue that troubles you in your relationship and she is not mature enough to discuss it when she's ready then kick her to the curb. And find someone without the same issue or one who can communicate like a grown up.

>What you said is not true of all women.

But it's true of the women you're trying to get pussy from.

i understand. a man has to be willing to put up w/anything as long as he's getting pussy. b/c pussy is such a precious natural resource that when a man finds a woman who is willing to offer him some he's gotta do anything to keep it. i mean, her. well, no i don't b/c the pussy is what's important and not her. so as long as she's giving up the pussy he should just take whatever she dishes out. if he's got a serious concern w/some aspect of her behavior he can't say anything about it b/c she's a woman which means she's illogical and unable to reason or listen. she's basically a monster but the monster controls that pussy so he has to deal w/her. it's why women run the world - they're monsters who control pussy which is that oh so precious and rare resource.

so yeah. i hadn't remembered all of that earlier - how awful women are but how great pussy is. so yeah, just ignore whatever as long as you're getting pussy. b/c women are awful monsters but they have that pussy.

right on, bro.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>Alot of women, good, decent, awesome women, will feel
>offended and affronted if a dude tries to force that convo on
>them, on some "how dare you!" type stuff. They've been taught
>that they're entitled to be taken out most of the time and
>that any man who has a problem with that is a bum.

Western society ESPECIALLY in the US has taught them that we don't really have feelings. Only Ego and Libido - therefore ANY foreway into "I'm feeling....." is almost always a road towards destruction.

>after he's paid for a while, setting the scene and dropping
>hints for meals or entertainment when they're bored.
>
>"I'm hungry. Don't you want some (xyz restaurant or
>cuisine)??"
>
>"Oooh, we should (take a trip, see a show, fill in the blank)
>Don't you want to do that??"

Since he asked her out he needs a down payment for the time he has reserved in his schedule for the date.

It's a securiy deposit in case she flakes out.

Like I said before, some men are insistent on never letting a woman pay. I know some women who would never even reach for the check, not even a pump fake. That's how they were raised like that's the proper way to court and be courted. If you're one of those people, don't go out with NOT one of those people. That's first of all.

Being honest... I like a man to pay because I like to keep my money. It'd be the same if I was dating a woman tho. Doesn't everyone like to keep their money in their own wallet? Anyway, it's not his gender or some "rules" about dating that makes me think his ROLE is to pay. But my personal politics override that innate penny pinching and won't allow someone else to do all the lifting. So I end up splitting or offering something (get the drinks, tip). I've covered the bill on plenty of dates and carried a few relationships financially because I was the higher earner and it made sense.

Don't date a bathroom attendant and expect him/her to meet you covering dates while you ball out on your executive salary. That's another thing.

I don't see why this is complicated. Counting. Hmph. I wish a dude would be like "welp, it's date #2. your turn."

edited to add that I don't even accept dates if I can't pay for at least myself. I'll say "that sounds nice but I can't afford to go out right now." Most times, guys will say they've got it because they want to go out. but shit, if neither of us got it we should go do some free shit.

if she doesn't ever like to pay then she can talk about it str8 up. she can explain how she feels and why. then she can find out where he falls on that issue.

talking. it's the main point of dating.

Let me get this straight.

You agree that a chick who was raised to be courted should be straight up honest and upfront about it with the person that shes dating, but a trans chick shouldn't have to be straight up honest and upfront and disclose that she was born a male to the person that shes dating?

>Let me get this straight.
>
>You agree that a chick who was raised to be courted should be
>straight up honest and upfront about it with the person that
>shes dating, but a trans chick shouldn't have to be straight
>up honest and upfront and disclose that she was born a male
>to the person that shes dating?

yup.

a transwoman shouldn't ********************************************************************************************NECESSARILY************************************************************* disclose her trans status to a guy she's seeing right away. b/c of the risk of harm to herself.

if ciswomen or transwomen who live on a pedestal faced as great a risk of bodily harm from ppl they date b/c they won't ever pay for a date then i might advise them to w/hold the info a bit too. but since the risks are so different it makes perfect sense that i take the stances i do and your question is clearly dishonest and ridiculous.

I think everyone should have to be honest about who they are upfront. Thats fair.

this money thing is totally different and the trans thing has no point here. but i'll go into it.

blanket honesty in any relationship is not required or desirable. we all lie to each other regularly usually about little things. it's fine. we all w/hold truth until we feel comfortable disclosing. it's fine. it's life.

the transwomen issue is pretty unique b/c of the risks involved.

again...the transwomen ________MIGHT________ want to consider not disclosing the trans issue right away b/c she may want the person she's dating to get to know things about her other than her trans status so that when she presents the info there's more context. the fear is that once the person hears 'trans' that fact will dominate everything. it may be better to present that fact a little later. how many dates in? there's no number. it's about a feeling - it's about when she feels comfortable disclosing based on how their interactions have been. if she feels comfortable 15 minutes after meeting the person, maybe she can disclose then. if it takes a few days...weeks...months. she should do it when she's comfortable. maybe she's never comfortable. maybe she shouldn't date that person then. or they should remain very casual.


pedestal princesses who never want to pay for dates should probably talk about that issue when they feel ready. maybe they never feel like it needs to be addressed. b/c the guy they date is a white knight who loves saving damsels and princeses. maybe he's a regular guy who expects to pay all the time and never wants his woman to pay. so the 2 are a great fit on this issue and it never needs to be addressed. awesome. but if there's any kind of bad feeling about the issue on either side then it should be talked about. b/c otherwise it will fester and become resentment and will likely become bad behavior that can cause trouble for the relationship.

may be murder, and the other may be a guy saying "ehhh, no thanks, that's too much for me"

when they think we've made contradictory statements.

but then i can kinda see the point - but, again, the risks are what make the major difference.

it's one thing to reasonably fear that the lover will break up the relationship due to a conversation. it's another to reasonably fear the lover may physically harm you due to a conversation.

when the latter fear is at issue then the disclosure/conversation should probably be handled w/more care and consideration and thought than when the former fear is at issue. and that's why i'm fine w/transppl w/holding info about their trans status until they feel ready to disclose. even if that means being physically intimate before the disclosure. though being intimate w/o disclosure can definitely complicate everything. that's gotta be considered in the calculus. maybe the transperson should decline physical intimacy until disclosing. but maybe not. no hard/fast rule.

This goes to sowhat as well.

Just transgender women? People with HIV? People having extramarital affairs? Who? Why do we have to use a possible consequence severity scale to decide who should have to be honest about themselves and who shouldnt? Either be cool with everyone withholding information or no one at all.

the correct answer most of the time is "it depends"

1. Got an issue in your relationship that's eating away at you? You MUST talk about it with your lover.

2. You must discuss it when you are comfortable having considered all of the risks involved.

3. You MUST terminate the relationship if you are convinced you will not ever be ready to discuss the issue.

4. If your lover initiates the discussion about this serious issue you MUST participate in the discussion when you are comfortable doing so having considered all of the risks involved. If you are never comfortable then you MUST terminate the relationship.

There.

>Just transgender women? People with HIV? People having
>extramarital affairs? Who? Why do we have to use a possible
>consequence severity scale to decide who should have to be
>honest about themselves and who shouldnt? Either be cool with
>everyone withholding information or no one at all.
>
>

Some men, despite your respective financial situations, will insist on paying. And others will insist you go dutch even if he's a baller and you're a student.

But most of my dating experiences lean in the direction of the guys paying for the lion's share of the dates. Which I don't really mind, because that's kinda how my parents raised me. But I'm also big on buying gifts and stuff I think my partner will enjoy, and I'm not above paying if he doesn't have it and I still wanna go out with him.

Then again, I don't tend to date for sport. If I'm feeling lukewarm about a dude, I'll usually decline the offer to go out, cuz I'm not that pressed for male company.

Ultimately I'm not really a tit-for-tat kinda gal, be it with family, friends or romance. But hopefully those types gravitate to each other because that kinda mindset is a dealbreaker if he's doing that kind of accounting on our relationship.

it signals a larger problem

either she's broke
or she just expects the man to take care of everything as a rule
or she's taking advantage
or she's not interested in creating a PARTNERSHIP - she only wants HER needs met

depending on the situation, i might not even let her start paying for anything by date 3
but i do expect the reach by then

It signals a larger problem

either he's broke
or he just expects the woman to take care of everything because he has trust issues.
or he's cheap
or he's not interested in courting me seriously, b/c he's playing games and trying to decide whether im a freeloader or not

>either he's broke
hes broke when this is the 3rd date that hes paying for? ok.

>or he just expects the woman to take care of everything
he expects the woman to take care of everything when this is the 3rd date hes paying for? ok.

>because he has trust issues.
dont know what this has to do with anything, but...ok.

>or he's cheap
hes cheap when this is the 3rd date hes paying for? ok.

>or he's not interested in courting me seriously
how long do you expect to have everything paid for when someone is courting you?

just a shot in the dark - you're single as fuck, huh?

Willingness to pay or not pay, like you did.

Lastly all of my current prospects pay and have no problem with it. Luckily I haven't had the displeasure of running into these types of " I pay/you pay " keeping tabs ass niggas and im glad for that.

if shes not reaching by date 3, one of the things i said was true, OR she's not interested dating in ME, she just want to be taken out

and "current prospects" = single.
i figured.

It dosent really say anything at all, except that she didn't pay for the date that you invited her on.

Lastly, me being single dosent take away from anything that I've said, nor does it add any validity to anything that you've said so im not even sure what point you were trying to make with that. Probably because there really wasn't a point, just an opportunity to take what you THOUGHT was a cheap shot. If I wanted a boyfriend tomorrow, guess what? I'd have one. Also, every relationship that Ive been in has been long term, and guess what? They paid, and it was never a problem. But like I said above I've just been lucky enough not to run into petty men that are super pressed over things like this, and I'm glad for that.

I'm a feminist all the time

Everyone wants equality until the check comes

i don't see how anyone could have a problem with that
i'd be willing to go with the guy paying for date 1 always just out of tradition
after that who ever is the one pressed to be seen again should pay
i think that's fair

once had a situation where a chick KEPT asking me out on dates
and KEPT sitting there looking stupid when the check came
the quality and frequency of the dates plummeted
she basically became a happy hour ONLY date, otherwise i had 101 excuses
eventually i got what i wanted then the dates ceased completely
didn't have to be that way, but her attitude turned me off so much it turned into me waiting to get a return on my investment kind of deal since i no longer had real interest
just be fair

edit: and guys need to get over being called cheap/broke. if a chick thinks you paying for everything while dating is attractive....you probably don't want her anyway

This process weeds out the aint-shitnicks quickly.

WTF?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA

at war with the stylistics

i mean i get it...

but let's make the complicated even more complicated...

let's add one more game within a game

let me finish cooking these bacon and brussel sprouts

i halve them, then sautee/brown them in coconut oil, add some olive oil, balsamic vinegar and garlic, then do some apple or cherrywood bacon cut up into small bits, then add a couple of fried eggs and mix it all together. i could live on that shit

don't make money an issue. they pay like it's nothing so, the
question of whether or not i should pay is never an issue/concern.

and if they were in a bind, i would pay but, i think it should
be discussed before we meet up.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
instagram:
http://instagram.com/0kayndc

"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"

cause a lot of these chicks aint worth a fraction of the effort.

w/ most chicks after 2 dates i'm expecting you to come up w/ a date idea and the money for it. i can't always be the brain and the bank. sometimes a nigga just want to be the guest for the day. *yeshrug*

Or be upfront about your " on the fence " - ness that way everybody is on the same page.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

when the whole system is we initiate it all the time until...shit...damn near engaged...

on average...every chick i ever dated probably didn't "initiate" a date until it was clear we were an item

so that rule is really funky

i'm with SoWhat on this...even though it's hard and you will cheat yourself outta some pussy now and again...we have to be more honest about this shit

i spent most of my dating broke as fuck...and still didn't expect chicks to pay...i guess i did learn to be more honest about that fact as i got older and got creatively cheap in some areas

i resent it after the fact rather than in the moment though so it's tricky

cause girls will have minimal interest in you...you will have interest in them...and even some decent girls won't give 2 fucks about how many dates you have been on or whether or not they met you working at a shitty bar lol

people are self-interested...

when i was a broke boy...i would invite chicks for drinks or coffee...and if i was just chasing pussy...i would barely even do that...u get an invite to a get together or my shitty apartment lol

but we as dudes definitely gotta be more honest on where we stand on that...bc most of the women i dated were way further along in their careers than me...

offering to pay (genuinely) definitely shows me you aren't there for the free food, you would like to go on another date

the games we structure into this shit makes everything so adverserial...i gotta slay a dragon for some pussy...and win a joust with some other nigga with a better horse to court you...

and if most of your dates are completely cold hollers...u doing something wrong...if you going on dates just cause somebody asked and they didn't repulse you...yea, might wanna revise that a bit

the feeling of entitlement and our pressed for pussy acquiescence is just all the way problematic

don't believe in casual sex...cool,thanks for letting me know...i'd revise level of investment and attention or just cease pursuing depending on what my needs and expectations are...

but women act like they can't even call you to initiate shit and it's already been a month worth of dates...just kinda ridiculous

>After how many dates do you expect her to pay?

I don't expect a woman to pay for me. I believe in keeping my level of expectations within reason depending on what level of rapport I have with a woman. However, I don't want a woman to "offer" to pay. Either pay or not. Be direct and decissive. Games are not necessary.

>If she dosent offer to pay do you feel some type of way?

No. But, if she expects me to break a lot of bread on the first date, then I will be a lil concerned about her intentions with me.

>
>Is dutch a real thing on "dates" our here? Lol

It is real for those who want a non traditional date. It works for some people while traditional dates works for others.

I don't think dudes mind paying, if the woman is good company as well as attractive, interesting and is displaying encouraging levels of cooperation. Some dudes may want to keep the expenses modest while some may slurge. In all, if the cooperation isn't to his satisfaction, then there may not be subsequent dinner dates, if any.

I say go with your heart. If you don't wanna pay, then don't pay. I just hope you keep your expectations reasonable to what you are willing to contribute to the date.

.

FOH w/ 40 dollar steak & 15 dollar drinks just b/c it's served at XYZ restaurant. After the 1st date the only place we're going to is the kitchen so fire up the George Foreman Grill while I count my savings.

Also, we're eating BEFORE going to the movies & purchasing matinee price tickets....why in the fuck am I paying 8 dollars for a 99cent popcorn along w/ paying double to watch the same fuckin' movie after 6pm?

Show me your skills & creativity.....otherwise might as well fuck a zombie's pussy.

**If you can't cook then you ain't worthy long term investment anyways.....swinging for the fence on the 1st date & then it's a wrap unless they're giving it up for free**

It's amazing how hard some of us make things, it's really common sense. If you don't have money to go out, offer an alternative or stay home until you can. Anybody that doesn't understand the thought behind that concept probably isn't for me anyway, and there's nothing in return I can do for them if we can't come to a mutual understanding.

and game plans about this deserve to be single...

LOL

i prefer to reciprocate in other ways like cooking dinner, buying drinks and gifts

im pretty sure i spend just as much money on the men i date as they spend on me. if not more.

i like buying gifts, making dinner for a guy, etc.

if i was a guy, i would like paying for dates.

shit, i like treating my friends when we go out.

especially since as a woman you currently like doing things for ppl. you even like treating your friends.

paying for a date i doing something for a person. paying for a date is treating a person you like.

what gives?

and i like men that like gender roles.

not that i think everyone should go by them, but i like them for myself.

Oddly enough ppl will accept certain gender roles but then reject others. Like men who want a " traditional " woman that cooks, cleans, maintains the domestic aspects of the household and caters to them but then don't want the provider role.

Moral of the story most ppl only like gender roles when it benefits them.

because there was a time when "gender roles" woulda had your ass with no job, barefoot, pregnant and probably black-eyed.

let's not celebrate them too too much.

nor do they have to give one person power over another.

so i am asking you what you like about them and how you choose which ones to emphasize or ignore. no snark.

i like doing traditional feminine tasks. and its not that i'm dainty and helpless, but i like being taken care of, and i like to take care of a man in the traditional feminine way of doing so.

i dont think its a matter of picking and choosing which "rules" to ignore...its moreso about creating a system that is BASED on those roles but is flexible according to my and my potential partner's natural strengths and weaknesses.

its also about balance and reciprocity. which is why i like men that are as masculine as i am feminine. if i spend two or three times the hours/money to prepare for a date as my man, and we go dutch or i pay, how is that balanced? if i spend the same amount of time/money as him, then it makes more sense. of course there are plenty of men who don't mind if a woman isnt dolled up for a date, but i generally dont date those type of men.

>i like doing traditional feminine tasks. and its not that i'm
>dainty and helpless, but i like being taken care of, and i
>like to take care of a man in the traditional feminine way of
>doing so.

i definitely like that, too, to feel like a protector and a provider and then to feel in return someone being attentive and spoiling me when the time comes.

>i dont think its a matter of picking and choosing which
>"rules" to ignore...its moreso about creating a system that is
>BASED on those roles but is flexible according to my and my
>potential partner's natural strengths and weaknesses.

right but at the same time you have arguments about tradition and "natural feeling" from men who want to outright subjugate women. i am just saying, the language is the same. but i'm glad we are being clearer about it now.

>its also about balance and reciprocity. which is why i like
>men that are as masculine as i am feminine. if i spend two or
>three times the hours/money to prepare for a date as my man,
>and we go dutch or i pay, how is that balanced? if i spend the
>same amount of time/money as him, then it makes more sense. of
>course there are plenty of men who don't mind if a woman isnt
>dolled up for a date, but i generally dont date those type of
>men.

i dunno i was pretty much with you until now. believe me, as a man, i would drive myself fuck-ing cr-azy thinking about "reciprocity" in this way and i imagine a lot of women would, too. i think it's more about the first thing you said, a balance of roles and a sort of emotional reciprocity. it's not about time or money evening out, and maybe not even about effort evening out. it's about the feeling evening out in the end. if she feels like she doesn't have to worry about shit, that she has the freedom do what she wants to do and doesn't have to sweat the small stuff, i wanna feel that when i've had a hard day and damn sure when when i turn out the lights (c) teddy p.

Taking my lady out for something special feels good and even covering the day-to-day shit or getting a little smile out of her with some flowers is very nice. Giving is an expression of potency

yall will apply some fake science to anything.

after 2.5 dates, carry over the third, over a goodnight kiss if it's at least 60 degrees outside...if not she's fucking you best friend and you need to kick her ass to the curb.

about their love life too.

much much more interesting as a person.

Often, that's a sign of a little bit of critical thinking, which is always sexy.

>After how many dates do you expect her to pay? Ladies after
>how many dates do you offer to pay?
>
>If she dosent offer to pay do you feel some type of way? Do
>you eventually just ask her to? Ladies if he asks/ expects you
>to pay, do you feel some type of way?
>
>Is dutch a real thing on "dates" our here? Lol

If the date is a real dead end, then I will cut my losses (e.g. call it an early night) but overall I'm not thinking about money if things are going well. I certainly don't have any expectations about her paying and if she offers and insists in any way I sort of take that as a negative sign if we are just starting out. In my experience, that means she doesn't want to feel obligated in any way, but that's only happened maybe twice that I can remember.

It's also situational, of course. If I am taking a chick from around the way out, I don't expect her to pay for shit ever. I know ya broke, fantasizing like Mariah get a grip on my bumper and rub ya clit on my tires (c) Too Short. But if I am with a girl from money and/or with a good job, yeah at some point I'd like to see her come out of pocket for something just as a gesture.

i don't expect a woman to have some sort of set timeline in her head, or pay ever....

i thought this "who will pay" mess was something u ppl had figured out

str8 dudes are telling yall : NO MA'AM

>i thought this "who will pay" mess was something u ppl had
>figured out


its not
women want it both ways

>str8 dudes are telling yall : NO MA'AM

yep

dudes also want it both ways

there is still a sense of obligation and a power play that comes with paying

there are women who do pay
those dudes in turn dont want those women
they actually do like that sense of power and that 'choosing' aspect
more than they care to admit
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

who hate wedges and microbraids...and seeing men in heels.

you mean to tell me some men don't like wedges AND micro-braids?

This can't be real yo...

Dudes that pay are the ones with "expectations" and "standards"


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

cause everyone here has a job


thing is dating aint a job
so having those kind of "standards" and "expectations"
theres little benefit for women
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

even though a lot of shit gets in the way of dating
having a woman pay your way is emasculating to me
let me do that..and if i cant...we just wont be going out

as i get more comfortable with a woman i feel better about paying myself but at the same time better about her paying for shit, too. at the start though, yeah, i just keep it easy breezy with the cash flow.

some people caution you against her getting spoiled or taking advantage or whatever. those kinds of girls are really easy to spot and i just keep the flow-to-fun ratio even or cut 'em loose. a solid chick that will be around for a while won't take you paying for shit as a blank check.

I can only think of one woman that I've dated that never offered and she was struggling.