Sure there's gay male r&b singers like the underrated Rahsaan Patterson
But how many have achieved Sam Smith type success/acceptance?

****key word in this convo is OPENLY*****

Also, I just found out about Sam Smith.
That's dope that he's out and incredibly successful.

But I don't think he's as accepted as Sam is
Sam on cover of mags.Tv shows...sweeping grammys



Can Frank steal the BET awards..thank his ex boyfriend?
Get on the cover of Ebony, Jet and Essence?
Entertainer of the year at the NAACP awards?

Can a hit song change all of that?

In my mind I think so but then again I know black folks...lol

I thought those companies went out years ago

Homie chose to be reclusive. He doesn't want to be in the spotlight, and thats fine. Nobody ran that nigga off.

come strong w/ that OONTZ edm type shit, ie the usher/neyo lane & then follow it up w/ some good sappy mid tempo ballad

#chching


does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

aside from patterson and ocean, isn't rachelle farrell gay? and i think this can extend into other realms of society too. an openly gay white professional football player or basketball player is going to get much more attention thrown their way then amechie or collins or sam ever had.

(for me)

i dunno who.

it's bullshit. blacks aren't any more or less homophobic than other populations.

>
>it's bullshit. blacks aren't any more or less homophobic than
>other populations.

all either side has is anecdotes.

According to this one, blacks are more disapproving of homosexuality.
But they are less discriminatory.

I'm sure there's more out there (probably contradicting these findings). But this is the first one that came up in my googling

http://m.poq.oxfordjournals.org/content/67/1/59.short

Black homophobia has been cited as a contributing factor in slowing mobilization against AIDS in the African-American community, as an obstacle to black lesbians and gay men in coming to terms with their sexuality, and as a challenge to the legitimacy of the gay rights movement. Yet evidence that blacks are more homophobic than whites is quite limited. This article uses responses from almost seven thousand blacks and forty-three thousand whites in 31 surveys conducted since 1973 to give more definitive answers on black-white attitudinal differences and their demographic roots. Despite their greater disapproval of homosexuality, blacks' opinions on sodomy laws, gay civil liberties, and employment discrimination are quite similar to whites' opinions, and African Americans are more likely to support laws prohibiting antigay discrimination. Once religious and educational differences are controlled, blacks remain more disapproving of homosexuality but are moderately more supportive of gay civil liberties and markedly more opposed to antigay employment discrimination than are whites. Yet religion, education, gender, and age all have weaker impacts on black than on white attitudes, suggesting that black and white attitudes have different roots.

>>Yet evidence that
>blacks are more homophobic than whites is quite limited.<<

>>Despite their greater
>disapproval of homosexuality, blacks' opinions on sodomy laws,
>gay civil liberties, and employment discrimination are quite
>similar to whites' opinions<<

>>and African Americans are more
>likely to support laws prohibiting antigay discrimination<<

>>>Yet evidence that
>>blacks are more homophobic than whites is quite limited.<<
>

This means that prior to this study, this thinking was just anecdotal (I.e. no evidence behind it)


>>>Despite their greater
>>disapproval of homosexuality, blacks' opinions on sodomy
>laws,
>>gay civil liberties, and employment discrimination are quite
>>similar to whites' opinions<<
>
>>>and African Americans are more
>>likely to support laws prohibiting antigay discrimination<<
>

I guess we have to define what it means to be homophobic.
I thought the disapproval of homosexuality was representative of that.

...and i was pointing out that the abstract you linked supports my position that blacks aren't any more or less homophobic than other populations.

Is a person who dislikes gays, but at the same time is okay with them having equal rights homophobic?

A white guy who hates blacks but is opposed to discrimination is still a racist in my book.

However it's defined.

I've mostly heard the line about blacks being more homophobic from ppl who don't know blacks - and there's often a racist undertone. Usually it's explained by pointing out that blacks are allegedly more Xtian. But, again, the ppl saying this don't know blacks. They're guessing from the outside using old stereotypes. And then some of us buy into the idea bc to us 'gay' is branded as white. As if white ppl accept homosexuality more than others. And that's not true either. One of the reason gay whites formed their own neighborhoods is bc they were ostracized from their other communities. That doesn't happen as often with blacks or other non-whites so we don't have as many seperate communities. And if our churches are the reason blacks are so phobic then why do so many churches have gays in prominent positions like choir director of soloist? At least that's the stereotype. And I don't know the same to be true of white folks and their churches.

I don't buy into the idea that we're more homophobic. It's hurtful to blacks and lets white ppl off the hook for their homophobia.

black ppl are less likely to grab my cock as a joke at a frat party.


in practice, blacks and whites are equally uncomfortable with gays
when it's anything other than an abstraction.

Blacks will look the other way at the choir director unless
the choir director shows up to church and holds hands with his boyfriend.

Which is exactly how it goes in white churches.

Blacks and whites are equally likely to cosign some homophobic bullshit
that's said in public.


So I really can't say whites are less homophobic.
Who was marching and clutching pearls when don't as don't tell was done away with?


I might admit that sometimes white ppl's homophobia looks different.
But most of the time it's exactly the same.


I agree with sowhat.

and that tends to be one of those things that seems to...correlate with homophobic views

i understand why a metro area black person would think we are more homophobic...

i'm inclined to say the difference isn't big enough to matter

"conservative" tends to go hand in hand with resisting changing social mores and also gets the "adam and steve" types yappy

they exist on both sides but according to gallup we are actually more religious and it's difficult to tell just how much that correlates with social conservatism to homophobia but that seems to be an intricate relationship of identity

i disagree that we're more conservative Xtian.

my anecdotal experience is mixed on this but

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gallup-blacks-most-religious-group-us

'very religious' or 'moderately religious' more whites say they're 'non-religious'.

the survey allowed ppl to define the terms themselves. so i dunno what it means for those folks to be very/moderately/non religious (which faith(s)? attend religious service(s)? et al). and i dunno what role religion plays in their lives, if any. so based on that i can't agree that Blacks are more religious in actuality and definitely not conservative Xtian.

and even if blacks are more religious (whatever that means) it doesn't necessarily follow that we're more homophobic. to know that we'd need to know what religions are at issue, what those religions say about homosexuality, how much importance blacks place on what their religion says about homosexuality, whether blacks tend to agree w/what their religion says about homosexuality, and how likely blacks are to act based on what their religion says about homosexuality. among other things.

again - the main reason i push back against the idea that blacks are more homophobic is that i tend to hear that line from ppl who also believe white are morally superior. also b/c the idea contradicts my personal experience.

http://religions.pewforum.org/portraits

u can view the different affiliations (they aren't broken down by race)

but comparing historically black churches to say catholic views on homosexuality skews it in favor of the Catholics...

their are other groups in there as well that depending on how you interpret the demos support that we are a lil bit more intolerant...

it's not a contest but I do think there are good numbers that can somewhat subjectively say one or the other


edit: eh, the numbers appear to be unreliable to nail down any real facts

i think my views on how we view hyper-masculine roles and the role of the black church in our social lives could be overblown

the main reason i push back against the idea that blacks are more homophobic is that i tend to hear that line from ppl who also believe white are morally superior. also b/c the idea contradicts my personal experience.

i hope those self-hating negroes realize how much this fight means to u

Basically saying that you are going to reject that something exists just because others use that information improperly.

I'm not saying blacks are truly more homophobic. I'm not really convinced either way yet.
But you stance seems like you dont care what the truth is.
The truth is irrelevant to your position

that's what i referred to with 'i don't care'. we were going down an irrelevant rabbit hole trying to figure out if blacks are more religious than __. that part is irrelevant to the larger discussion in this subthread (that's getting out of hand) - are blacks more homophobic.

i don't believe blacks are any more or less homophobic than any other population. i have no good reason to so believe.

i reject the notion b/c it's been presented w/o proof by ppl who have bias against blacks and/or gays. plus it contradicts my personal experience. when i've heard this line from ppl they haven't even presented the couple of links y'all came with in this subthread - and y'all's links weren't great support for the notion that blacks are more homophobic. so that's why i push back.

I've not seen a group of ppl that are generally less awful.
Ppl that try to get me to believe that one group sucks less than others are usually on some bullshit.

but i do feel like knowing the subtleties in that terribleness is valuable to a certain extent

like the different brands of anti-intellectualism...that one always fascinates me

but i get it...fight the good fight

I don't think it's a incorrect to say that Africans (or Arabs) tend to be more homophobic than black Americans, is it?

By saying that, I'm not saying one group sucks and the other is better.
I'm just recognizing that the groups have differing mores.

Kinda bizarre that you're the only one looking sensibly at this.

i get the feeling that PTGC _wants_ blacks to be more homophobic.

do you think so too? and/or do you agree? do you want it to be true that blacks are more homophobic than whites?

i've laid out repeatedly why i disagree w/the contention - b/c i haven't seen good proof and b/c it contradicts w/my personal experience.

also b/c i don't WANT it to be true. b/c i place a value judgment on homophobia and homophobes. i find both distasteful. and i have no problem w/judging ppl and/or cultures for their homophobia. and i'll continue doing so.

I say that in watching how ppl react when they find out I am gay
and how they react to other gays before they know i'm gay.

I grew up in a black, rural area below the mason dixon line.
I was in the army with mostly white officers and mostly black enlisted.
I work with both black and white churches equally doing community outreach now.

Blacks and whites trip or don't trip in equal measure.


As I said, white dudes seem more likely to grab my dick at a frat party...
and I get the impression a closeted gay white dude would be more likely to try to beat me to death with a pipe wrench for hitting on him...

but in all of my every day experience,
blacks and whites are equally likely to trip about the gay.


>my anecdotal experience is mixed on this but
>
>http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gallup-blacks-most-religious-group-us

Maybe, it's just an image that some portray, but I have never known of as many whites wearing their religion on their sleeves as Blacks. Of my peers from work, I would say that at least 80% went to church regularly, compared to maybe 30%; I'm being very generous. I'm not religious at all, but I know a lot of Black people that I have met outside of the church that are pastors, ministers, etc.

Even on social media, I only see sistas posting about church and scriptures. I mainly hear Black entertainers and athletes talk about god, casually. The white ones that do, Tebow, Kirk Cameron, etc, seem more extreme. Again, maybe it's just something that is ingrained in us to put on display and secretly, we're just as apathetic lol

I remember Bush trying to align himself with Black churches during his election campaign because they opposed gay marriage, as well. There are many sources for it, but this one explicitly states it:

http://www.alternet.org/story/21096/black_evangelicals%3A_bush\'s_new_trump_card

"A Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies poll in 2004 found that blacks by a far larger margin than the overall population opposed gay marriage."

Similarly like I think on CERTAIN topics related to having kids people without kids should defer to people with kids, this is a topic where I would defer to the black gay person.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

Just like blacks and whites are equally likely to be wrong
when they talk about "black on black" crime.

And really, this is the same argument.

That whites are simply morally superior to blacks.

Blacks, whites, straights, and gays are just as likely
to be on some bullshit with this one.


I used to be on that bullshit too, until I thought about it.


>Similarly like I think on CERTAIN topics related to having
>kids people without kids should defer to people with kids,
>this is a topic where I would defer to the black gay person.
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"One of the most important things in life is what Judge
>Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to
>whether you're r

the perspective that whites are morally superior. when i saw that i started to actually think about the issue and not just blindly accept it as truth. and when i thought about it i couldn't agree that we're more homophobic. especially not when i see the bias in most of the ppl who advocate for this point.

Why hasn't there been a soul singer that's on that level of acceptance like an Elton John for example?

There's been singers but none have broke through into the black mainstream.

Is it all because the right song/artist hasn't came along to break through?

>Why hasn't there been a soul singer that's on that level of
>acceptance like an Elton John for example?

Elton didn't come out until after his artistic/commercial peak ('Candle In the Wind 1997' notwithstanding).

George Michael didn't come out until after his artistic/commercial peak.

David Bowie played around w/gay and bisexual labels during his artistic/commercial peak. he's a better example for your point.

and there's only been ONE David Bowie.

>There's been singers but none have broke through into the
>black mainstream.

Little Richard was fairly flamboyant and out at his artistic/commercial peak. but then he found Jesus and denounced homosexuality.

Luther Vandross was never out but his homosexuality was an open secret among his fans.

>Is it all because the right song/artist hasn't came along to
>break through?

pretty much.

That's why I said openly

There's plenty of yeah WE know what time it is examples lol

Elton came out

George as well

Yet they still can pack an audience and sell records

It's not really an issue

When they came out...it was like "yeah...and??" thing...at least it was to me. It didn't stop me from listening to their music.

Can we say the same if an R Kelly type came out and said he was gay?

he came out, if he'd so chosen.

i have no reason to believe he couldn't have continued w/his success after he'd come out.

>Can we say the same if an R Kelly type came out and said he
>was gay?

R. Kelly type? probably not b/c his music and imagery are so sexual in nature.

if a Ne-Yo type came out? he'd be a'ight, i think.

God bless you.

Yes, he was out.

http://youtu.be/5H69xXQRSgM

http://youtu.be/bDWSemTCV40

I mean, Prince referenced him as an influence in his early days and we probably wouldn't have seen groups like Culture Club or Dead or Alive without him.

he was drag during the time when 70s rock hit the glam era
P-funk donned costumes
and disco was popping
i think he rejected the drag queen title as well

its one of those liberace type things i think
as in people bought it?
and yeah alot did
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g144/hrstumpde/Soundtrack/Sylvester%20James/sylvester_mv_thumb.jpg

he was gay. out. and wore drag.

whether he identified as a 'drag queen' or not, he fit the description.

but the main point here is he was definitely gay and out.

>http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g144/hrstumpde/Soundtrack/Sylvester%20James/sylvester_mv_thumb.jpg
>
>he was gay. out. and wore drag.
>
>whether he identified as a 'drag queen' or not, he fit the
>description.
>
>but the main point here is he was definitely gay and out.

and prince and elton and boy george and rick james
things feel out differently for all
they all went under the eccentric entertainer umbrella


for the purposes of this discussion
he doesn't count as an openly gay r&b singer
he denied being a drag queen

he may have been open in SF but nationwide doesn't look like it
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

he wasn't closeted like Liberace. he wasn't heterosexual like Prince.

whether all of his audience knew it or not is of no moment. he didn't hide it. that means he was out.

i'm out and there are ppl who know me who don't know i'm gay. it doesn't mean i'm not out b/c i'm not hiding the fact that i'm gay. they either don't see it or it hasn't come up in our interactions.

There was no shame in his game

i dunno why he rejected the 'drag queen' label - maybe b/c he didn't want to be pigeon-holed as a performer. if so i get it.

but he was definitely out. he lived openly as a gay man and had romantic relationships w/men. openly. he wasn't closeted.

so yeah, he belongs on the list of openly gay R&B singers. or maybe openly gay Disco singers if we wanna be too technical.

well..

You can't be an "R&B" in 2015 and attain the success that Sam has..

Now if you mean black gay man pop artist... Well frank is literally 1 hit away. He has all the credibility just doesn't have a Latch or Stay with Me

write up and shot out from black people on twitter just a while ago.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're r

I think the only reference he's made to his sexuality is that his first love was another man.

Or are we on that "all it takes is one time" stuff?

so i dunno.

Was a very bold move, imo.

cuz i don't see how a music genre can be ready or not for anything

regardless, i don't care. people just need to get the fuck over the fact that some other people are gay.

this post is annoying. i'm leaving.

d

cmon yall need to quit playing with this bullshit.

Everyone knew Luther was gay. What did he have to say it?

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

He would never admit to it. I remember that. He never came out.

I didn't know Rahsaan Patterson was gay!
Am I mistaken or is Darien Brockington gay as well?

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>Am I mistaken or is Darien Brockington gay as well?

didn't know he was out though.
his first album was sooooooo good!

No one on a mainstream level has done it

wtf i miss?

he's been defiantly flamboyant and gay in the past. well, as much as he could be in the 1950s w/o being lynched. then he found Jesus and denounced it all. then he came back to the secular world and toyed w/bisexual identity. then he found Jesus again and denounced again. then he started being coy about his sexual orientation generally.

what we know is he's not str8. b/c str8 ppl have no reason to play games w/sexual orientation. they just come out w/it and that's that.

At least that first dude (are we only talking about gay men here and not lesbians?) will have to be basically singing about the condition of the world or aspects of life outside of traditional mainstream R$B hits (which nowadays are almost all about _sex_, not even love).

Who you know got a "room fulla niggas" on standby to fuck their girl?

>Who you know got a "room fulla niggas" on standby to fuck
>their girl?
>
>
>

different brand of politics and the game is more open to things because its wide open.

back in the day it was masking and covering the window, today its not gonna alienate the base as it would have back in the day.

sylvester was cool with his thing, however he was tossed toward dance and disco and truth is Sylvester should have had a Al Green kind of career,however different time period with letting your freak flag go.

Sylvester couldn't get away with things like Bowie and Freddie Mercury,however he held his own and had respect as a artist.

>different brand of politics and the game is more open to
>things because its wide open.
>
>back in the day it was masking and covering the window, today
>its not gonna alienate the base as it would have back in the
>day.
>
>sylvester was cool with his thing, however he was tossed
>toward dance and disco and truth is Sylvester should have had
>a Al Green kind of career,however different time period with
>letting your freak flag go.
>
>Sylvester couldn't get away with things like Bowie and
>Freddie Mercury,however he held his own and had respect as a
>artist.
>
>


and goes even more toward why there was the rock vs disco thing
it was pretty homophobic, sexist and racist

he really should and could have been a freddie mercury

i love queen
=(

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I mean obviously he was the first...

and of the baddest talents ever. i know for a fact that alot of old school Italians loved Johnny more than they did Sinatra.

Mathis had a base with R&B.Pop and the Adult audience. it didn't work against him either.

he was certainly a Black Artist.. Black Pop back then was R&B in a sense of it's day..just the pop version of it... Dionne Warrick...Roberta Flack in a way...

but I thought he did come out in jet magazine during the time he was still making records.... could be mistaken though..

and he did come out way back.

wait Johnny was black?


wait...


i want to tell my mom but i feel like she already knows
she LOVES johnny mathis
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://www.johnnymathis.com/mathisTour.html

Johnny Mathis 59th Anniversary Concert Schedule
Thursday Feb 12, 2015 San Antonio, TX Majestic Theatre
Saturday Feb 14, 2015 Baton Rouge, LA Baton Rouge River Center - Baton Rouge Symphony
Saturday March 7, 2015 Palm Desert, CA McCallum Theatre for the Performing Arts
Sunday March 8, 2015 Palm Desert, CA McCallum Theatre for the Performing Arts
Saturday April 4, 2015 Los Angeles, CA The Walt Disney Concert Hall
Friday April 10, 2015 Columbia, SC Koger Center for the Arts
Sunday April 12, 2015 Sarasota, FL Van Wezel Performing Arts Hall
Friday April 24, 2015 Rochester, NY Auditorium Theatre
Sunday April 26, 2015 Erie, PA Warner Theatre
Friday May 8, 2015 Hartford, CT The Bushnell - Mortensen Hall
Sunday May 10, 2015 Portland, ME Merrill Auditorium
Thursday May 28, 2015 Milwaukee, WI The Riverside Theater
Saturday May 30, 2015 Appleton, WI Fox Cities Performing Arts Center
Thursday June 11, 2015 Dallas, TX AT&T Performing Arts Center - Winspear Opera House
Saturday June 13, 2015 Austin, TX The Long Center - Dell Hall
Thursday Oct 8, 2015 Tacoma, WA Pantages Theater
Saturday Oct 10, 2015 West Wendover, NV Peppermill Concert Hall
Friday Nov 13, 2015 Branson, MO The Oak Ridge Boys Theatre
Saturday Nov 14, 2015 Branson, MO The Oak Ridge Boys Theatre
Friday Feb 19, 2016 Raleigh, NC North Carolina Symphony - Meymandi Concert Hall
Saturday Feb 20, 2016 Raleigh, NC North Carolina Symphony - Meymandi Concert Hall

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

it's Valentine's Day week so that makes sense.

>it's Valentine's Day week so that makes sense.

man wait till i tell mom

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Amid queries regarding his homosexuality, his agent would only allude to it by saying, "Chances are" and " It's Not For Me To Say", which were recordings the artist had made. In a 1982 Us Magazine article, Mathis was quoted as having said, "Homosexuality is a way of life that I've grown accustomed to." Us Magazine later retracted the statement. After more than twenty years of silence on the subject, Mathis revealed in an interview in 2006 that his silence was due to death threats he received as a result of that 1982 article. On April 13, 2006, Mathis granted a podcast interview with The Strip in which he talked about the subject once again, and how some of his reticence to speak of the subject was partially generational.

and kinda came out yrs later, per that Wiki info.

He pretty much summed it up...ithe issue dance is generational
All those cats sans Sylvester and Jermaine Stewart danced around the subject
Those two were trailblazers..

First of all, Black gays are indomitable. Hand us lemons and we will somehow make some tea. Then we'll have straight black men drink it as they watch "Empire" and scream, "Yassss!"

So I can't imagine any space in the near future being off limits to openly Black gay men, who by our very nature bust down your walls (pause).

Also, to assume that there isn't a space for us in R&B is to ignore the queerness of stars like Frank Ocean and Sylvester, and the hiding in plain sight performed by queer Black artists like Luther and Freddie Jackson.

Even worse, it's to assume that Black people are more homophobic than white folks. Like SoWhat, I definitely used to believe that the Black community is stubbornly and disproportionately anti-gay. And maybe it was true at one point. But probably not. Either way, there is no part of me that believes that Black people are particularly homophobic in 2015. From the White House to the NFL and NBA, Blacks are actually at the forefront of creating spaces for the LGBT community. I have no reason to doubt that the same won't be the case in R&B.

Like talking about a dudes body and stuff?

and RnB sucked every since the Kells effect
so why not
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

making john legend jokes
so kudos to him?
i dunno.

Kudos

him and jesse williams


man
i love those dudes
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

.

Do his chart hits from "Empire" not count is my question.

during rerun season...
.

im glad to see he addressed it head on
And that folks are accepting him
This show is dealing with issues disguised in soap opera camp
And I applaud them for it

And his Ellen Interview

I would say yes

I think he sings in real life...it looked like it when he was singing to his daugh...sister

You're so Beautiful should be a hit!!

http://www.billboard.com/artist/6438154/empire-cast/chart

drop that for real on the radio.