Like, Katie Holmes. She gets a lot of pub talking about how 'pretty' she is, but no. She's just sort of there. she's not 'ugly', but let's stop with the 'beauty' bullshit. She's a great catch if you're Gilbert Grape in your small town of cousin fuckers or whatever, but otherwise she's an average looking woman who just happens to be famous.

***before the usual feminist heroes come running, nobody is demanding goddess-levels of beauty from women or assigning value to all women based on looks, I'm speaking strictly in terms of objective perceptions of physical beauty in a vacuum. Kim K is visually attractive. Katie Holmes is just whatever. Who the fuck knows what sort of people they are, what kind of values they have, or what sort of conversation there is to be had with them, but that's not the topic.