Before you attack me for being a buzz kill, I will just say that I drink form time to time as well, however, this doesn't take away from the shocking data concerning alcohol.

Alcohol is the most damaging substance to the individual and to others, ranked higher than heroin, crack/cocaine, crystal meth, tobacco, etc. Alcohol is a narcotic.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=alcohol+more+toxic+than+cocaine+and+heroin&oq=alcohol+more+toxic+than+cocaine+and+heroin&aqs=chrome..69i57.6504j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=alcohol+more+harmful+than+heroin+and+cocaine

Someone on this forum called me a dummy for writing this in another post, and I felt compelled to share because I don't think people are aware of the data. Everyone should at least be aware of what they are doing to their bodies.

If you use social media, I am sure you will see "scientific studies" claiming that red wine is good for digestion, or that 1 glass of red wine is equivalent to an hour of cardiovascular activity, etc.

The fact is all these studies are bullshit, limited to a set of variables the researchers are specifically targeting while ignoring others, and most likely funded by alcohol distributors that want to provide buyers with confidence.

There are well documented studies which state that if you have more than 2 drinks per week on a consistent basis, you are going to run into heart disease issues in the future. It is basically a guarantee.

So, the question is: Is it worth it? I basically see alcohol as a poison that I drink from time to time to "take the edge off" because it definitely does that. What does it say about a society that creates anxious, angry, stressed, and paranoid people, only to fill them with poison to cope?

How can the drug enforcement administration take themselves seriously when the hardest drug known to man is readily available 24 hours a day at your local corner store? Society is truly a farce for the insane.

i drink alcohol b/c i like the effects. and whatever damage it's doing to my body is minor enough that the impact will only be felt spread out over several yrs. i'm fine w/that.

i'm probably going to die sooner than i would if i never drank. that's fine w/me b/c i don't prize longevity.

i'm w/Redd Foxx:

“Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing.”

...we're all going to die. something is going to kill each of us. that's unavoidable. i'm fine w/that.

>i'm w/Redd Foxx:
>
>“Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in
>hospitals dying of nothing.”

Lying in hospitals dying of nothing? wat?


>
>...we're all going to die. something is going to kill each of
>us. that's unavoidable. i'm fine w/that.


No doubt, however, I'd rather die of old age, than of self inflicted damage. You don't know how you will feel in 10 to 20 years from now. Let's assume you find a partner and have a family, and let's assume your life is filled with a lot of joy as a result. Do you think the attitude of "Well, it's okay, we're all going to die and I don't mind dying now due to heart and liver issues." is going to stick when you could have lived another 10 to 15 years?

>Lying in hospitals dying of nothing? wat?

hy·per·bo·le
hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles

exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric;

>>...we're all going to die. something is going to kill each
>of
>>us. that's unavoidable. i'm fine w/that.
>
>
>No doubt, however, I'd rather die of old age, than of self
>inflicted damage.

no one dies of old age.

old ppl die b/c their organs fail. or b/c they have an illness. or some other condition. but they don't die of 'old age'.

my 97 yr old great grandfather died of an aneurysm. a blood vessel in his brain exploded. and he bled to death. in his head. he didn't die of 'old age'.

that's how it goes. something will cause you to die. it won't be old age.

You don't know how you will feel in 10 to 20
>years from now.

i'm pretty sure i do.

Let's assume you find a partner and have a
>family, and let's assume your life is filled with a lot of joy
>as a result.

LOL. yeah, let's imagine a fantasy world where my life is filled w/joy as opposed to my current life that's filled w/joy as-is.

but, okay.

Do you think the attitude of "Well, it's okay,
>we're all going to die and I don't mind dying now due to heart
>and liver issues." is going to stick when you could have lived
>another 10 to 15 years?

yeah. i'm very confident i would have the same attitude. i would not want to live too deeply into my 80s. i'm fine if this whole thing wraps up around age 85. i'll have had a good run. and by then i'll be pretty deep into heroin use if things go as i expect. b/c by then it's like why am i NOT using heroin? or any other drug i want. i don't use it now b/c i don't want to die w/in the next 10 yrs or so if i can help it (though if that happens i'm cool w/it). but by age 80 i plan to go ahead and dive into some serious substance usage. i'll have little reason not to. i'll also eat whatever i want. high fat, sugar, cholesterol. all of it. b/c why not?

>>Lying in hospitals dying of nothing? wat?
>
>hy·per·bo·le
>hīˈpərbəlē/
>noun
>noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles
>
> exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken
>literally.
> synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification,
>embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric;
>

So, you are basing your point of view on hyperbole as a viable option?


>>>...we're all going to die. something is going to kill each
>>of
>>>us. that's unavoidable. i'm fine w/that.
>>
>>
>>No doubt, however, I'd rather die of old age, than of self
>>inflicted damage.
>
>no one dies of old age.
>
>old ppl die b/c their organs fail. or b/c they have an
>illness. or some other condition. but they don't die of 'old
>age'.
>

You know what I meant. There is a difference between dying at 90, or at 60.


>
> Do you think the attitude of "Well, it's okay,
>>we're all going to die and I don't mind dying now due to
>heart
>>and liver issues." is going to stick when you could have
>lived
>>another 10 to 15 years?
>
>yeah. i'm very confident i would have the same attitude. i
>would not want to live too deeply into my 80s. i'm fine if
>this whole thing wraps up around age 85. i'll have had a good
>run. and by then i'll be pretty deep into heroin use if things
>go as i expect. b/c by then it's like why am i NOT using
>heroin? or any other drug i want. i don't use it now b/c i
>don't want to die w/in the next 10 yrs or so if i can help it
>(though if that happens i'm cool w/it). but by age 80 i plan
>to go ahead and dive into some serious substance usage. i'll
>have little reason not to. i'll also eat whatever i want.
>high fat, sugar, cholesterol. all of it. b/c why not?

You are pretty confident that you are going to reach 85. The basic question I posted is, what if you don't make it to 60? Are you okay with that?

>So, you are basing your point of view on hyperbole as a viable
>option?

*pats head*

bless your heart.


>You are pretty confident that you are going to reach 85. The
>basic question I posted is, what if you don't make it to 60?
>Are you okay with that?

i could die in 5 minutes. i'll be fine w/it.

and if i'm not too bad - b/c i'll be dead.

>>So, you are basing your point of view on hyperbole as a
>viable
>>option?
>
>*pats head*
>
>bless your heart.
>

Your outlook on drug use is based on a hyperbole and you want to pat MY head?

Cute.

>
>>You are pretty confident that you are going to reach 85. The
>>basic question I posted is, what if you don't make it to 60?
>>Are you okay with that?
>
>i could die in 5 minutes. i'll be fine w/it.
>
>and if i'm not too bad - b/c i'll be dead.

You are short sighted and you have the right to be. If you have the same outlook on life as you did when you were 12 years old, then I'd probably take you more seriously, but chances are you have had profound growth spurts which altered your views significantly. If you think everything is going to stay peachy until you drop dead at 85, all while pumping yourself full of heroin, then you should get into the fortune telling business or writing fortune cookie messages. ;)

Lol @ your dream though. Everyone has got to live for something I guess.

Bless YOUR precious heart.

>You are short sighted and you have the right to be.

thanks!

If you
>have the same outlook on life as you did when you were 12
>years old, then I'd probably take you more seriously,

LOL.

that really matters to me, man.

truly. i care about your opinion of my life choices. greatly.

i want them to be pleasing in your eye. i want to be someone you look up to. someone you respect.

i work hard at it.

knowing that you may not take me seriously is having a big impact on my thoughts on the issue we're discussing.

i have seen the light, man.

i gotta stop drinking. b/c i want you to be proud of how i live my life.

i want your respect.

i want you, an Internet stranger, to take ME seriously.

i really care.

this matters.

but
>chances are you have had profound growth spurts which altered
>your views significantly. If you think everything is going to
>stay peachy until you drop dead at 85, all while pumping
>yourself full of heroin, then you should get into the fortune
>telling business or writing fortune cookie messages. ;)

my god. you are right!

my plan is unsustainable.

i can't live that way!

how should i live, dude?

what should my plan be?

should i eat more kale?

tell me what to do. you have the answers. i clearly need them.

show me the way.

>Lol @ your dream though. Everyone has got to live for
>something I guess.
>
>Bless YOUR precious heart.

i wanna know what love is.

i want YOU to show me.

i wanna FEEL what love is.

i know you can SHOW me.

Not sure where you got all that.

I do find it amusing that your life goal is to be an 85 year old heroin addict.

I find it further amusing that you think everything is going to go according to plan because "you want it to" based on complete hyperbole which you thought was illuminating MY ignorance, LOL.

Gosh. I wish I had that kind of prepubescent idealism about drugs and alcohol too. Maybe you still do have the outlook of a 12 year old.

Weeeeeee.

i hope i can continue being a foil for your pleasure.

unless i die first.

Bahahah.

:)

tell it like it is...

>
>yeah. i'm very confident i would have the same attitude. i
>would not want to live too deeply into my 80s. i'm fine if
>this whole thing wraps up around age 85. i'll have had a good
>run. and by then i'll be pretty deep into heroin use if things
>go as i expect. b/c by then it's like why am i NOT using
>heroin? or any other drug i want. i don't use it now b/c i
>don't want to die w/in the next 10 yrs or so if i can help it
>(though if that happens i'm cool w/it). but by age 80 i plan
>to go ahead and dive into some serious substance usage. i'll
>have little reason not to. i'll also eat whatever i want.
>high fat, sugar, cholesterol. all of it. b/c why not?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
instagram:
http://instagram.com/0kayndc

"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"

and what does The Word say about this?

how sad that you are throwing your life away?
it's like you haven't considered the risks
and you can't even see the web of addiction you are in.


I'll pray for you.


i drink alcohol b/c i like the effects. and whatever damage
>it's doing to my body is minor enough that the impact will
>only be felt spread out over several yrs. i'm fine w/that.
>
>i'm probably going to die sooner than i would if i never
>drank. that's fine w/me b/c i don't prize longevity.
>
>i'm w/Redd Foxx:
>
>“Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in
>hospitals dying of nothing.”
>
>...we're all going to die. something is going to kill each of
>us. that's unavoidable. i'm fine w/that.

and i love it!

Do you know what they mean when they say alcohol is more dangerous than those other drugs?

i can't hold my tongue.

is this dude Bartek or what?

b/c this is some Tek-like posting right here.

Certain websites make a distinction between "to the user" and "to others", but you will also find websites which point to both:

"(Reuters) - Alcohol is a more dangerous drug than both crack and heroin when the combined harms to the user and to others are assessed, British scientists said Monday."

not per user or per family. More people abuse alcohol than any other drug, so it causes more health problems and has a greater economic impact.

>not per user or per family. More people abuse alcohol than
>any other drug, so it causes more health problems and has a
>greater economic impact.

Okay, let's take the "combined" damage over the specific damage to the "user" for the sake of argument. How does alcohol get a pass? Is the collective damage somehow offset by the fractional less damage to the user?

People abuse alcohol because of its availability and social acceptance. Teenagers can't wait to grow up to get loaded, and start early anyway. Think of the damage they are causing all while chasing the dream? Is it worth it?

half of those ppl don't drink at all.


the idea that teenagers "can't wait" to drink is weird to me.
most ppl have little to no intrest in drugs,
regardless of whether it's legal or not.



>People abuse alcohol because of its availability and social
>acceptance. Teenagers can't wait to grow up to get loaded, and
>start early anyway. Think of the damage they are causing all
>while chasing the dream? Is it worth it?


You'd have to ask each individual user.
it depends on how much they enjoy alcohol and how much risk they are willing to accept.

the only way to emilinate all the risks associated with any
is to never do it, ever.

is total abstinence worth it?


I am not so judgmental as to think I could decide that
for anybody other than me.

Alcohol-Related Deaths:

Nearly 88,0007 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol related causes annually, making it the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States.

In 2012, alcohol-impaired-driving fatalities accounted for 10,322 deaths (31 percent of overall driving fatalities).


>
>the idea that teenagers "can't wait" to drink is weird to me.
>
>most ppl have little to no intrest in drugs,
>regardless of whether it's legal or not.
>

Alcohol is not socially viewed as a "drug".

>
>You'd have to ask each individual user.
>it depends on how much they enjoy alcohol and how much risk
>they are willing to accept.
>

Most people are unaware of any risk because it's socially acceptable and the foundation for the night life. Mainstream entertainers condition young people to do it by being paid to promote alcohol with their "art".

>the only way to emilinate all the risks associated with any
>is to never do it, ever.
>
>is total abstinence worth it?

I like changing the state of my consciousness, however, there is a difference between having a drink to celebrate, and drinking just to get drunk every Friday and Saturday night.

Many people in my social circles drink almost daily.

you can and should manage your risks
in accordance with your values and your level of risk aversion.

everybody else should, too.
Different ppl choose to accept different levels of risk.


Abstinence is safest.
Temperance and moderation is less safe.

We all know the risks.
We all make our choices. that's how it should be.


>Alcohol-Related Deaths:
>
>Nearly 88,0007 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000
>women) die from alcohol related causes annually, making it the
>third leading preventable cause of death in the United
>States.
>
>In 2012, alcohol-impaired-driving fatalities accounted for
>10,322 deaths (31 percent of overall driving fatalities).
>
>
>>




>Alcohol is not socially viewed as a "drug".
>

It very clearly is a drug,
and I have not met anybody over the age of 10 that thinks it isn't.

Have you?






>>
>>You'd have to ask each individual user.
>>it depends on how much they enjoy alcohol and how much risk
>>they are willing to accept.
>>
>
>Most people are unaware of any risk because it's socially
>acceptable and the foundation for the night life.


What rock are ppl living under where they missed the memo that drugs are dangerous?

I've never met anybody that thought drugs are completely safe.

Mainstream
>entertainers condition young people to do it by being paid to
>promote alcohol with their "art".
>

They also have their drug problems broadcasted before a national audience. Which further reminds ppl that the shit ain't completely safe.






>>the only way to emilinate all the risks associated with any
>>is to never do it, ever.
>>
>>is total abstinence worth it?
>



>I like changing the state of my consciousness,

Good for you!
That's rare though.

Most ppl have little to no interest in drugs of any kind.


however, there
>is a difference between having a drink to celebrate, and
>drinking just to get drunk every Friday and Saturday night.
>

Yes. Drinking more is riskier.



>Many people in my social circles drink almost daily.
>
>


Your social circle is weird.
The majority have less than one drink per week.

Do you have stats that show something different?
>

>
>>Alcohol is not socially viewed as a "drug".
>>
>
>It very clearly is a drug,
>and I have not met anybody over the age of 10 that thinks it
>isn't.
>
>Have you?

Yes I have. When I was a teenager there was a clear distinction between "drugs" and "alcohol".

>
>What rock are ppl living under where they missed the memo that
>drugs are dangerous?
>

I'm speaking about alcohol. Many people die of alcohol poisoning. If people were educated and aware that wouldn't happen.

>
>They also have their drug problems broadcasted before a
>national audience. Which further reminds ppl that the shit
>ain't completely safe.
>

In a fashion which glamorizes their "I don't give a fuck" attitude which most kinds think is cool.

>
>Your social circle is weird.
>The majority have less than one drink per week.

How do you have less than one drink per week? Half a drink? :)

>
>Do you have stats that show something different?
>>
>

I think the problem is far greater than you give credit to.


Alcohol Use Disorders (AUDs) in the United States:

Adults (ages 18+): Approximately 17 million adults ages 18 and older (7.2 percent of this age group) had an AUD in 2012. This includes 11.2 million men (9.9 percent of men in this age group) and 5.7 million women (4.6 percent of women in this age group).3
About 1.4 million adults received treatment for an AUD at a specialized facility in 2012 (8.4 percent of adults in need). This included 416,000 women (7.3 percent of women in need) and 1.0 million men (8.9 percent of men in need).4


Youth (ages 12–17): In 2012, an estimated 855,000 adolescents ages 12–17 (3.4 percent of this age group) had an AUD. This number includes 444,000 females (3.6 percent) and 411,000 males (3.2 percent).5
An estimated 76,000 adolescents received treatment for an AUD at a specialized facility in 2012 (8.9 percent of adolescents in need). This included 28,000 females (6.3 percent of adolescent females in need) and 48,000 males (11.7 percent of adolescent males in need).6

mothers against drunk driving.
DARE.
after school specials.
very special episodes of sitcoms.

all informed me that alcohol is absolutely a drug.



>Yes I have. When I was a teenager there was a clear
>distinction between "drugs" and "alcohol".
>

maybe you lived in another time.
Anybody that grew up in the 80s knows alcohol is a dangerous drug.


>>
>>What rock are ppl living under where they missed the memo
>that
>>drugs are dangerous?
>>
>
>I'm speaking about alcohol. Many people die of alcohol
>poisoning. If people were educated and aware that wouldn't
>happen.
>


ppl know McDonald's is dangerous and die of heart attacks.
they eat the shit in spite of the risks.

absolutely nobody thinks the shit is healthy.
same principle with alcohol poisoning.
ppl that get it knew it was possible.



>>
>>They also have their drug problems broadcasted before a
>>national audience. Which further reminds ppl that the shit
>>ain't completely safe.
>>
>
>In a fashion which glamorizes their "I don't give a fuck"
>attitude which most kinds think is cool.
>

Yet the majority still drink less than one drink per week.

>>
>>Your social circle is weird.
>>The majority have less than one drink per week.
>
>How do you have less than one drink per week? Half a drink?
>:)
>


Some never drink, some have one per week.
The average comes out as less than 1 per week.


>>
>>Do you have stats that show something different?
>>>
>>
>
>I think the problem is far greater than you give credit to.
>
>
>Alcohol Use Disorders (AUDs) in the United States:
>
>Adults (ages 18+): Approximately 17 million adults ages 18 and
>older (7.2 percent of this age group) had an AUD in 2012. This
>includes 11.2 million men (9.9 percent of men in this age
>group) and 5.7 million women (4.6 percent of women in this age
>group).3
>About 1.4 million adults received treatment for an AUD at a
>specialized facility in 2012 (8.4 percent of adults in need).
>This included 416,000 women (7.3 percent of women in need) and
>1.0 million men (8.9 percent of men in need).4
>
>
>Youth (ages 12–17): In 2012, an estimated 855,000
>adolescents ages 12–17 (3.4 percent of this age group) had
>an AUD. This number includes 444,000 females (3.6 percent) and
>411,000 males (3.2 percent).5
>An estimated 76,000 adolescents received treatment for an AUD
>at a specialized facility in 2012 (8.9 percent of adolescents
>in need). This included 28,000 females (6.3 percent of
>adolescent females in need) and 48,000 males (11.7 percent of
>adolescent males in need).6







I didn't see a stat up there that was higher than 30 percent.

i mean, i dunno. but that's what this screed feels like.

that would make sense.

Hahaha.

The logic on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

you see us better than we see ourselves.

I get it, you have a very hedonistic inclination to life, and that's well and good, however, you may be surprised to find your perception of yourself/body does not always remain constant when constrasted with reality. People and opinions change throughout life.

That's all I said. We will all die, yes, this is true, however, that does not mean that your body will always be able to cope with the decisions you are making or that your death will be as wonderful as you imagine. I'm not sure why you find that so insulting. I'm not going to tell you that you are doing something wrong, but for you to be steadfast in the opinion that you are going to have a fantastic time up until you are 85 and go out with a heroin induced bang, just seems a little short sighted and immature. I mean, you based your opinion on hyperbole, so, there's that.

Just because I observed what you said and commented on it does not mean I am fresh out of rehab, lol.

it's all good.

keep spreading that gospel.

He called by a name that is not mine, and I agreed, by calling him by a name that is presumably not his.

Wasn't really that complicated.

You implied that we might not know it was a drug.

none of this is new information to
anybody that isn't six.

but somebody that had a moment of clarity
might share their new insight about the
dangers of drugs to ppl.



I could see it.

being legal, and being the most damaging substance of them all.


>You implied that we might not know it was a drug.

No, I said that youth don't consider alcohol to be a drug.

Take a look at this website:

http://kidshealth.org/teen/drug_alcohol/

Why isn't Alcohol under "Drugs" ?



>
>none of this is new information to
>anybody that isn't six.
>
>but somebody that had a moment of clarity
>might share their new insight about the
>dangers of drugs to ppl.
>
>
>
>I could see it.


You are free to assume anything you like.

Yes.

We all are.

Everyone is.


>>You implied that we might not know it was a drug.
>
>No, I said that youth don't consider alcohol to be a drug.
>
>

Do young ppl no longer get DARE classes?
do young ppl no longer have parents?

the message that alcohol is a drug is drilled
into young ppl's heads from an early age.

some would argue that it is drilled so thoroughly
that it INCREASES drug abuse,
because when they have one drink, have a good time, and
suffer none of the consequences they were warned about,
they assume adults were lying to them
and trying to spoil their fun.

which makes them more likely to disregard their
education about drugs.

the message is clear.
everybody gets it.

some ppl consider this information and decide
to drink anyway, in spite of the potential negative consequences.

no kid drinks because they thought the shit was healthy.


kids are stupid, but not thag stupid.



>
>>
>>none of this is new information to
>>anybody that isn't six.
>>
>>but somebody that had a moment of clarity
>>might share their new insight about the
>>dangers of drugs to ppl.
>>
>>
>>
>>I could see it.
>
>
>You are free to assume anything you like.
>

they didn't have Nancy Reagan and DARE like we did here.

(Tek is Canadian)

You are a beacon of rationality and good reasoning.

One last time. This post was created to illuminate how hypocritical it is that alcohol is legal, considering that it is ranked highest on the collective damage it does.

Finally. Most people do not consider alcohol to be a *drug* in the same breath as heroin or cocaine, and that's why there is always a distinction and people always say "Drugs *AND* Alcohol".

The distinction is present everywhere you look:

http://ncadd.org/for-the-media/alcohol-a-drug-information

http://kidshealth.org/teen/drug_alcohol/

-Why ins't "Alcohol" under "Drugs" ?

I immediately saw this quote, printed at the very top of the page:


If you're visiting the NCADD website to find out about alcohol, you are in the right place. We have chosen to have a separate section about alcohol because it is our most commonly used drug and it represents our number one drug problem.

Ethanol, commonly known as alcohol, found in beer, wine and spirits (like whiskey, gin, scotch, vodka, etc.) is a psychoactive drug that has a depressant effect.



>-Why ins't "Alcohol" under "Drugs" ?



I suspect if I followed the other links,
they would tell me, quite clearly, that alcohol is a dangerous drug.

That is not what I am disputing. I am just stating that socially, alcohol is not considered to be on par with cocaine or heroin. They are seen as distinct.

Why don't you ask the person sitting closest to you right now if they consider alcohol or heroin/cocaine to be more destructive?

I agree that there is a lot of misinformation about the dangers of
other drugs.

I still maintain that most ppl have little or no interest in drugs (alcohol or other drugs).

I've not seen evidence that the legal access to alcohol
is what makes ppl try it.

Nor have I seen evidence that lack of legal access to other drugs
prevents ppl from trying them.

The dangers of alcohol are well known, but some ppl do it anyway.
It's not that they don't know the shit is dangerous.
And it's not because of peer pressure.

Ppl use alcohol because they like it.

Same as with every other drug.


>That is not what I am disputing. I am just stating that
>socially, alcohol is not considered to be on par with cocaine
>or heroin. They are seen as distinct.

this post was informative.

>In 2012, alcohol-impaired-driving fatalities accounted for
>10,322 deaths (31 percent of overall driving fatalities).

In 2012, 3,328 people were killed by people texting and driving with another 421,000 injured in collisions where at least one driver was texting behind the wheel.

Will your next crusade be against texting and driving??? Cause clearly it's a very dangerous thing to do...

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

:)

the booze industry lobbies hard at all levels of government and it gets protection as a result.

plus, we as a society have accepted that we like to use substances to alter our consciousness. we accept caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, and all of the other unscheduled substances that are widely available for sale to adults in mainstream channels. we look the other way w/certain other substances like marijuana. and we tell ourselves lies about our use of substances like cocaine and meth and MDMA, et al.

i wish we'd be more honest w/ourselves and accept that we like to get high and we will always like to get high and there's nothing wrong w/it as long as we can manage our high w/o damaging our lives completely. and those of us who have trouble w/the management should be able to get help w/o being deemed criminals. the rest of us who can manage just fine should be able to access whatever substance we want w/o undue drama.

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

>the booze industry lobbies hard at all levels of government
>and it gets protection as a result.
>

Yup.

>plus, we as a society have accepted that we like to use
>substances to alter our consciousness. we accept caffeine,
>nicotine, alcohol, and all of the other unscheduled substances
>that are widely available for sale to adults in mainstream
>channels. we look the other way w/certain other substances
>like marijuana. and we tell ourselves lies about our use of
>substances like cocaine and meth and MDMA, et al.
>

Agree.

>i wish we'd be more honest w/ourselves and accept that we like
>to get high and we will always like to get high and there's
>nothing wrong w/it as long as we can manage our high w/o
>damaging our lives completely. and those of us who have
>trouble w/the management should be able to get help w/o being
>deemed criminals. the rest of us who can manage just fine
>should be able to access whatever substance we want w/o undue
>drama.

I am for the decriminalization of all drugs. I support government regulation to maintain quality standards. I don't think drugs are evil or "bad". I simply want access to a better, cleaner product. If drugs were regulated and taxed we could use the money to do a lot of good, and save people from a lot of bad incidents. The fact that alcohol is legal, and does the most collective damage to our society is insane to me, especially when less dangerous drugs are illegal.

where you get them stats from?

It was released last year.

fawk.

I'll post the study.

... might also protect you from cancer and then give you cancer. There are even cardiologists out there that PRESCRIBE red wine for people with high risk of heart disease.

One might conclude that these sorts of statistics are bullshit.

WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE, INITIATIONOFPLATO - TELL US THAT TRUTH!

To paraphrase the over-quoted Bill Hicks, "I've got some news for all the non-drinkers out there. I know you don't know this, but it is true. Wait for it.... Non-Drinkers die every day. Sorry!"

My parents next door neighbour is a life long teetotaller and has never put a cigarette to his mouth. You know what he's going to die of? Fucking lung cancer.

When the oldest woman who ever lived died a few years ago (I think she's been overtaken since) at the age of 122, she credited her longevity on drinking Port every day and smoked cigarettes every day for nearly a century.

There is an enormous amount of LUCK to all of this. Yep, you can reduce your odds, you can improve your fitness and yes, living sensibly and moderately gives you a better chance than others, but none of them have a bigger impact than your genetics, wealth and access to healthcare.

Whatever you do, don't waste your finite time on this planet being a preachy fuck who everyone rolls their eyes at. That's a much bigger waste of existence than dying young.

I still wonder how many Americans of colonial ancestry i.e. WASPS may have a genetic disposition to alcoholism due to their forebears basically drinking it as or in replacement of water. You can throw colonial Australians into that pile as well.

There was an interesting PBS doc on the prohibition era and what led to it that painted a pretty unsettling picture of just how bad folks were.

those ppl were a MESS b4 Prohibition! like, wow.

i understood why folks were behind the idea of Prohibition.

. Wrong spot

Even children were given mead to drink as it was a better option to water. When you really consider our collective history, there are some truly bizarre realities.

I guess you want studies though so

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/living-to-90-and-beyond/



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

My great grandfather lived to 97 with a shot a day and enjoying a cigar.

My great grandmother had her glass of wine or a can of beer until her last day at 95.

There are entirely too many people on this planet that are approaching 100 that still drink and are healthy for a person of their age.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

How sad!

I will pray that they one day find the peace they are desperately seeking in the bottle.

no one is looking for anything from a shot a day.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

OKP is in the dark when it comes to the
horror of addiction.


this is all sarcasm, btw.

There are people who smoke cigarettes all their lives and never contract lung cancer, it doesn't mean you should start smoking.

There is also a difference between living (surviving) and living well.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

It was so contextually blind from the beginning that it warranted nothing but a smirk and a click right back to the GD main page.

thats why

Once again, the logic on this forum is far out.

I asked a rhetorical question.

The logic failure is on your end.

The topic didn’t warrant a response from any reasonable person.

I noted the responses in relation to the topic and commented on that.

Yawn. :)

You can pin your stupidity and piss poor grasp of the topic on ‘my ego’, but that doesn’t change the fact that your post was dumb as rocks and you’ve got a 7th grade understanding of the topic.

You can continue to argue about nothing (yeah, I’m repeating myself for the sake of my ego!! Duuuuuuuuuuur! Good god are you a fucking moron. ) for the sake of upping the post count to gain some small personal victory, however if you think this whole ‘b-b-b-ut I’m adding to that post count by responding to your continued stupidity! YEAH! WINNING!’ does you any favors, you’re delusional.

I believe the antiquated term “fucktard” is appropriate for you.

DDUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRR

Never knew either of my parents fathers 'cause they died from complications of their alcoholism.

Pops was an alcoholic (RIP), uncle IS an alcoholic, and my grandmother WAS an alcoholic (she quit cold turkey and hasn't touched it in over 30 years). My other uncle (RIP) and aunt also had/have their ways with liquor.

Call it a curse of being Native...

Even with that... I drink. I don't have that same problem that they do. I don't feel the need to drink, I do it on occasion 'cause I like to. A bottle of good whiskey or brandy can last months in my household. I have a single tall can of beer once a week or every other week.

95% of all people in America have toxic levels of teflon in their system, yet not all of us will develop cancer from it.

Just because we drink doesn't mean we will develop anything from it.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

This post is about how hypocritical it is of society to allow the distribution of alcohol, when it is the most collectively damaging, while persecuting people for other drugs.

I don't think anyone read my post but chose to react to the first thing that caught their eye.

You posted a google laink, I ain't clickin on that. LEarn how to post proper links and maybe I'll take the time to read it assuming you've quoted something compelling directly from the article.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

To see the amount of information there is on the true nature of alcohol, lol.

Like I said, y'all ain't reading but you like to react.

i'm kinda baffled that people think that is a common perspective about alcohol

thinking that's a common perspective is giving a huge shit load of benefit of the doubt

i seriously doubt more than 15% of Americans would agree with the simple statement "Alcohol is a drug" even though it's pretty clear cut that it is

Nancy Regan, DARE, MADD,
I mean...

nobody can miss all of that.

they might think it's not as dangerous a drug as ____ .
but I doubt they'd think it's not a drug.




>thinking that's a common perspective is giving a huge shit
>load of benefit of the doubt
>
>i seriously doubt more than 15% of Americans would agree with
>the simple statement "Alcohol is a drug" even though it's
>pretty clear cut that it is

not to mention that's a pretty small generation to back that conclusion

My point was simple. How can the DEA take themselves seriously when the most dangerous drug is legal?

>How can the DEA take themselves
>seriously when the most dangerous drug is legal?
>



i'd bet the replies would be different.

after you said that ppl would call you a buzz kill
for mentioning the dangers of alcohol.


and after you asked ppl that consume alcohol "if it was worth it"
(as if they hadn't considered the risks before).

then you asked sowhat if he had fully though
his decision to use drugs at the expense of longevity.
as if he doesn't get that drugs ain't healthy.

the post is a mess.
you burried your point.

good luck w/ this.

People picked apart the post, which is fine, but noone has yet discussed the hypocrisy. Shrug.

We all know it's a drug.



---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

or consider to be as dangerous/destructive.

>or consider to be as dangerous/destructive.

I've watched a man OD on heroin only a few feet away from me when I was about 3 years old.

I've seen a dude chop at his own arms with a butcher knife 'cause he thought there were tiny monsters crawling under his skin from an LSD trip.

I've seen a woman run down the street asshole naked growling and lunging and people from angel dust. Since this was before tasers, she was subdued with police batons, but it took so many blows due to the drug that she was a bloody mess by the time they knocked her unconscious.

I've seen a shermhead spaz out on the street when I was a kid.

There are many thousands of cases of a person doing their first line of coke or first hit of crack and dropping dead. Same for meth and heroin. A chick I was fuckin with for a few years came to my crib fucked up mentally 'cause one of her girls took her first hit of heroin and died on her bed.

... I've also come dangerously close to coming to blows with my uncle when he was in a drunken rage. He's not much older than me, so we're like brothers as much as we are uncle/nephew.


Just being real... I can't compare a fight with my drunk uncle to the other shit I've seen with my own two eyes.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

Hundreds of thousands of people have used street and psychedelic drugs safely.

You can OD on alcohol as well, or induce psychosis, etc.

>Hundreds of thousands of people have used street and
>psychedelic drugs safely.
>
>You can OD on alcohol as well, or induce psychosis, etc.

Angel dust/PCP can make you do some crazy shit and it has ZERO to do with any "underlying" issues.

LSD causes extremely vivid hallucinations, some of which are terrifying.

A line of coke and dying ain't got shit to do with any "underlying psycological issues". The shit killed 'em, end of discussion.

You can also OD on water. Is that going to be your next crusade???

"Are you aware that oxidane can kill you???"

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

>Angel dust/PCP can make you do some crazy shit and it has ZERO
>to do with any "underlying" issues.
>

Angel Dust/PCP is horse tranquilizer. Not made for human consumption.


>LSD causes extremely vivid hallucinations, some of which are
>terrifying.
>

I have done LSD.

>A line of coke and dying ain't got shit to do with any
>"underlying psycological issues". The shit killed 'em, end of
>discussion.


Underlying heart issue. You can read about it.

>>Angel dust/PCP can make you do some crazy shit and it has
>ZERO
>>to do with any "underlying" issues.
>>
>
>Angel Dust/PCP is horse tranquilizer. Not made for human
>consumption.

it's still a street drug, and one that is still being used by people across the country.

>
>>LSD causes extremely vivid hallucinations, some of which are
>>terrifying.
>>
>
>I have done LSD.

And??? What's your point here? Two of my cashiers when I worked in MI sales back inna day did LSD. One complained to me that the change in her hand got up and started running around her palm, the other said that the drums were having a conversation with each other.

Everyone has different experiences with it. Some aren't that bad, some are royally fucked up.

>
>>A line of coke and dying ain't got shit to do with any
>>"underlying psycological issues". The shit killed 'em, end
>of
>>discussion.
>
>
>Underlying heart issue. You can read about it.

I'm supposed to believe that Len Bias had an underlying heart issue...

Sure bruh...

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

>>>Angel dust/PCP can make you do some crazy shit and it has
>>ZERO
>>>to do with any "underlying" issues.
>>>
>>
>>Angel Dust/PCP is horse tranquilizer. Not made for human
>>consumption.
>
>it's still a street drug, and one that is still being used by
>people across the country.

Not meant for human consumption, expect horrible effects. I'll let that sink in.

>
>>
>>>LSD causes extremely vivid hallucinations, some of which
>are
>>>terrifying.
>>>
>>
>>I have done LSD.
>
>And??? What's your point here? Two of my cashiers when I
>worked in MI sales back inna day did LSD. One complained to me
>that the change in her hand got up and started running around
>her palm, the other said that the drums were having a
>conversation with each other.
>
>Everyone has different experiences with it. Some aren't that
>bad, some are royally fucked up.
>

Thousands upon thousands have reported positive life transforming experience's. My experience was wonderful. Psychedelics have horrible effects on people with underlying psychological issues or if they do not prepare properly. LSD is not a toy, has to be used responsibly and after being well informed.

>>
>>>A line of coke and dying ain't got shit to do with any
>>>"underlying psycological issues". The shit killed 'em, end
>>of
>>>discussion.
>>
>>
>>Underlying heart issue. You can read about it.
>
>I'm supposed to believe that Len Bias had an underlying heart
>issue...
>
>Sure bruh...

If a single line of cocaine kills you it means that you had an underlying heart condition or it wasn't real cocaine. You can read about it online, its well documented.

>Before you attack me for being a buzz kill

the other drugs at least have the decency to keep you thin

like cigarettes, and Starbucks, and McDonalds. and i wonder why.
---------------------------------------
it's true what they say...people are strange, when you're strangers.

not compassionate....only polite.

I am not like you at all and i cannot pretend.

It's because we live in a corrupt capitalist system.

hopefully i don't overdose and kill myself w/this 'hard drug' i'm about to ingest.

we will begin mourning the loss of SoWhat with a round of shots.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

if I had my way my memorial would be a huge party with dancing and copious drug use. And sex.

Take it up with the hundreds of thousands of people who have lost their lives old sport. ;)

______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg

and leave it at that.

Good luck to you.

... based on next to ZERO information.

you're trolling.
---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

and I have clearly wasted my time speaking to you. :) I won't make that mistake again.

Good luck to you.

>and I have clearly wasted my time speaking to you. :) I won't
>make that mistake again.
>

You didn't have anything substantial to reply to anyone that took you to task on what you wrote, just a "did you click the link???". That's a waste of OUR time.

If you're bringing something you believe noteworthy to our attention, present information to back your claims IN YOUR OWN POST. Quote the articles you want us to read and put direct links to those articles, not a fuckin google search.




---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

1. People don't read.
2. People don't care about and ignore the data that is available to them.
3. People will sooner attack you than have discourse.
4. People are very defensive. (See #3)
5. Some people's life goals include being a junkie.
6. Doing your research and sharing the information = Just getting out of rehab.
7. People do not consider alcohol to be a destructive drug.



Take away:

1. Don't engage in back and forth's with people whom are not interested in learning.
2. Certain people lack the common courtesy and respect to have a conversation with.
2. Write very short posts in basic English or the nuances of your point will be lost in a sea of insults.

You post the same b/s you did when you posted as Bartek.

1. he/she is entirely too lazy to make a post that will quote the very sources he/she wishes us to read.

2. he/she is entirely too lazy to post even a single URL that corroborates his/her "information".

3. When taken to task on the subject, initiationofplato can never back up his/her claims, resorting to "didja read the link???" instead.




also... The majority of people in here are surprised this bullshit ass topic got any serious responses.
---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

No margarita ever cost me a nose.

and since the OP seems to like google links, I'll give him one.

https://www.google.com/search?q=krokodil&client=firefox-a&hs=Jgi&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=n7fJVKLbGsaxogSo4oGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=644

if you can't handle "gore" to any degree, don't click that. It's hard to imagine a person still using a drug that eats/rots away your body like that.
---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

The high has to be world ending. What else would cause a person to use that and not just self-immolate?

It includes gasoline, red phosphorus, and hydrochloric acid. Those are industrial chemicals. I believe only a small amount of codeine is added to the mix as well.

Have you watched the wire? Please nigga I grew up in West Baltimore. Drug violence is a problem because of its illegality alone and the overall impact including shortened lives, poor lifestyle choices of the progeny of addicts, and crime related to drug attainment/ commerce is a worldwide problem. Trollers like you have no idea, because if you did, you wouldn't think the shit is funny or cool. I hope it never affects someone you love, even if that means you keep making lulz.

>Have you watched the wire? Please nigga I grew up in West
>Baltimore.

Yeah, great show.

Drug violence is a problem because of its
>illegality alone and the overall impact including shortened
>lives, poor lifestyle choices of the progeny of addicts, and
>crime related to drug attainment/ commerce is a worldwide
>problem. Trollers like you have no idea, because if you did,
>you wouldn't think the shit is funny or cool. I hope it never
>affects someone you love, even if that means you keep making
>lulz.

Hard to believe Alcohol trumps the collective impact of drug violence. You can study the data yourself. Alcohol has a greater negative impact to the individual and the community than popular street drugs.

Once again, I did not invent the data. I'm just the messenger, if you want to call anyone a troll, why don't you send an email to the scientific agencies responsible for the findings and let them know they are killing your buzz.

If as many people took crack as took alcohol the relative impact would be astronomical.

Drinking alcohol is a societal norm meaning everyone does it. This means that like driving cars, voting Republican or eating sugar it has a big effect on society. Cars kill more people than crack or alcohol every year. Is the thrill of driving a "harder" drug than crack?

Widespread use DOESN'T make it a "harder" drug than crack or heroin. It just makes it a more popular one. It's still less addictive. It's still less physically damaging and it's still less likely to ruin YOUR life.

Yes, it is a drug. Obviously. That's not news to anyone over the age of 13. We all had this conversation in school when teachers tried to tell us pot was going to rot our brains and leave us all giving handjobs for the next hit.

>If as many people took crack as took alcohol the relative
>impact would be astronomical.
>

That is an interesting thought experiment and you could probably build a good case for it, however, more people use alcohol than they use crack. Most crack users also use alcohol. That would interfere with your experiment as well.

>Drinking alcohol is a societal norm meaning everyone does it.
>This means that like driving cars, voting Republican or eating
>sugar it has a big effect on society.
>

We can frame your thought experiment in several ways to procure varied results, however, the data speaks for itself.

--Nearly 88,0007 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol related causes annually, making it the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States.

--In 2012, alcohol-impaired-driving fatalities accounted for 10,322 deaths (31 percent of overall driving fatalities).

--In 2012, 3.3 million GLOBAL deaths, or 5.9 percent of all global deaths (7.6 percent for men and 4 percent for women), were attributable to alcohol consumption.


Let's compare this data to crack/cocaine:

--Cocaine is the second most commonly used illicit drug (following marijuana) in the United States. More than 34 million Americans (14.7%) age 12 or older have used cocaine at least once in their lifetime.

As you can see cocaine is a very popular drug, 34 million people in the United States alone. Let's look at the death rate:

--The researchers, who used information from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime as well as other published literature, estimate that between 149 million and 271 million people worldwide use illegal drugs.

--Data from the World Health Organization suggests there were 250,000 deaths worldwide due to illicit drug use in 2004, compared with 2.25 million due to alcohol, and 5.1 million due to tobacco.

--Some 235 deaths were linked to cocaine last year, up from 196 in 2007. This is the fifth year in a row that the number of victims has risen.

--There were 1,738 deaths linked to all illegal drugs in 2008, up 8 per cent.

I am having trouble finding data for 2014 but as you can see, the amount of death's related to "hard drugs" are a fraction of alcohol related death's. Don't forget 35 million people used cocaine in the United States alone.


>This DOESN'T make it a "harder" drug than crack or heroin. It
>just makes it a more popular one.
>

I really think the data speaks for itself.

>Yes, it is a drug. Obviously. That's not news to anyone over
>the age of 13. We all had this conversation in school when
>teachers tried to tell us pot was going to rot our brains and
>leave us all giving handjobs for the next hit.

It apparently is news to some people.

You're doing 3 much here. I think everyone understands the point you're making. I certainly understand your point anyway. Despite largely being a non-drinker (I probably have on average one or two drinks per month) I disagree with it wholeheartedly, mainly because it's taking the numbers out of context. *Anything* scaled up to be as widespread as alcohol use is going to have ridiculously skewed numbers and all the problems you raise with my thought experiment exist with yours - do you know what other drugs those alcohol users were taking? Do you know how much exercise they were getting? What sort of stress levels they had? Do you know how wealthy they were? What their sleep patterns were like? How polluted an area they lived in? Do you know how much sugar they regularly ingested? No? It's bullshit, isn't it?

Statistics like that are ALL bullshit. That's why you can look in a newspaper any given day of the week and find out something's going to both give you cancer and prevent cancer. Just look at this shower of shit for the reliability of establishing causality from "statistics":

http://www.anorak.co.uk/288298/scare-stories/the-daily-mails-list-of-things-that-give-you-cancer-from-a-to-z.html/

I've seen lives ruined by alcohol most definitely, but I've seen far more lives enhanced by it. Despite it being illegal and my personal drug of choice, I've seen more lives spoiled by marijuana than I have alcohol (I've also still seen more enhanced). If as many of my friends took crack or heroin as took marijuana and alcohol, I'd be hosting an intervention every week and burying someone every month.

Believe it or not, the data is there, and we live in a time where we can effectively link death's to their causes, and I think the numbers speak for themselves. There is a reason why Alcohol was ranked no.1 as the most collectively damaging substance to the user and to the community, once again, I did not invent the data.

Most "illegal" drug death's are also unrelated to the drug itself, as users share needles and spread HIV, HEP, etc. Also, most illegal drugs are laced with toxic chemicals as people are trying to make a buck. There is a documentary out right now called "What's in my baggie?" where a group of individuals tests illegal drugs at music festivals and find that most of it is bath salts. Finally, illicit and illegal drugs are less toxic, and less damaging to the human body in their pure state.

I really don't think people understand my point. It was simple, why is the DEA chasing after cocaine and marijuana dealers when the most potent and lethal drug is available at the corner store. That was my point which so far noone has addressed, as everyone got very defensive about alcohol and started to insult me, or accuse me of just getting out of rehab, come on. Let's be honest with each other.

All your variables that create "skewed" numbers are shared by illegal drug users as well. Most illegal drug users are in less advantageous economic and social situations as well, and still, their deaths are a fraction of alcohol related deaths.

We are not discussing cancer here. We are talking about alcohol and drugs. I don't see the relevancy of bringing in an unrelated topic to make a point about this one. Not everything is the same across the board. That is just not proper science.

>I've seen lives ruined by alcohol most definitely, but I've
>seen far more lives enhanced by it. Despite it being illegal
>and my personal drug of choice, I've seen more lives spoiled
>by marijuana than I have alcohol (I've also still seen more
>enhanced). If as many of my friends took crack or heroin as
>took marijuana and alcohol, I'd be hosting an intervention
>every week and burying someone every month.

Millions of people try heroin and crack/cocaine annually across the world. The amount of people who fall into addiction are relatively tiny compared to the amount of people whom develop alcoholism. The data is there for you to study.

I don't think you'll find (m)any OKPs that disagree with the notion that the War On Drugs has always been an utterly useless and regressive policy largely due to the availability of alcohol and the War's tendency to zero-in on poor people and/or ethnic minorities and dole out disproportionate sentences that ruin people's lives.

The reason people are only engaging the "Alcohol is the hardest drug" bit is because it's in the thread title and it's wrong enough for everyone to call out; unless you bend over backwards to make the numbers work for you. Your numbers are unreliable at every turn - why would you bring a statistic into the conversation about people who've "taken cocaine at least once in their life" when we're talking about damage through long term use? It's irrelevant and only serves to cloud an already murky issue even more.

Let's try a little harder to keep focus on those numbers:

86% of Americans drank alcohol in 2013 272m people)
25% of Americans admit to binge drinking in 2013 (79m Americans)
7.2% of Americans had an Alcohol Use Disorder in 2013 (22m Americans)

About 1 in 12 (8.3%) drinkers develop a problem with alcohol use.

1.6% of Americans took cocaine in 2012 (5m Americans)
1.1m Americans were treated for cocaine addiction in 2012 (i.e. real number was likely higher).

So about 1 in 5 (20%) cocaine users develop a problem with cocaine use.

Even if you only look at addiction rates, cocaine is a harder drug than alcohol. Anecdotally, everyone knows someone who's been drunk nearly every night of their life and lived a full life to a ripe age. I bet most of us know one or two people who tried that with cocaine or opium and experienced VASTLY different results.

In other words, you are ignoring death rates and are focusing only on addiction. Addiction does not always lead to death.

I did not have to bend over backwards to make any numbers work for me, I'm not sure where you got that. In fact, you are framing the problem from 1 perspective and attempting to make a point about the whole, in essence, you are bending over backwards to make the numbers work for you.

What is more pertinent? Death or Addiction that can be cured?

1. I posted research which, by using the scientific method, has established alcohol as the most damaging substance to the user and the community, ranked above cocaine and other hard drugs. You don't have to take my word for it, take it up with the researchers.
2. I posted American and Global death rates for alcohol and cocaine. We can look at heroin, meth, whatever you like, the results will be similar. Alcohol kills far more than illicit drugs.

>86% of Americans drank alcohol in 2013 272m people)
>25% of Americans admit to binge drinking in 2013 (79m
>Americans)
>7.2% of Americans had an Alcohol Use Disorder in 2013 (22m
>Americans)
>
>About 1 in 12 (8.3%) drinkers develop a problem with alcohol
>use.
>
>1.6% of Americans took cocaine in 2012 (5m Americans)
>1.1m Americans were treated for cocaine addiction in 2012.
>
>So about 1 in 5 (20%) cocaine users develop a problem with
>cocaine use.
>

Your stats basically only establish and work towards proving the point I am making. Even though cocaine can be more addictive, it kills less people than alcohol, so which is the harder drug?

However your points are addressed you shift the conversation slightly so you can still disagree and patronise.

I give up. Hopefully you eventually find a crowd of 13 year old trustafarians who can look up to you as the great prophet you carry yourself as.

>However your points are addressed you shift the conversation
>slightly so you can still disagree and patronise.
>

It's very basic logic, and I did not patronize you.

1. Cocaine is more addictive.
2. Alcohol is less addictive.

3. Alcohol kills substantially more people than cocaine.

Is human life not worth more than an addiction that can be treated? Which do you think is the harder drug if one takes life significantly more than the other?

>I give up. Hopefully you eventually find a crowd of 13 year
>old trustafarians who can look up to you as the great prophet
>you carry yourself as.

I find that ironic since I posted the data, was attacked for it, and now you are accusing me of patronizing you, or acting as a prophet, LOL. The logic in this place never ceases to amaze me.

You can study the data yourself and present it to your friends, it doesn't make you a prophet.

Sigh. I cannot "lose" an argument which is supported by scientific data. You are on the wrong side of the fence.

Alcohol kills more people because vastly more people take it, but a lower proportion of alcohol users die than cocaine users.

Nobody is disputing alcohol has a bigger negative effect on society than cocaine... of COURSE it does, it's everywhere and cocaine is confined to comparably tiny populations.

Are you also going to try and argue alcohol is more harmful than cyanide and falling off skyscrapers?

If your nephew came in tonight and asked if he should have a beer or a bowl of crack, which would you advise he did?

>>However your points are addressed you shift the
>conversation
>>slightly so you can still disagree and patronise.
>>
>
>It's very basic logic, and I did not patronize you.
>
>1. Cocaine is more addictive.
>2. Alcohol is less addictive.
>
>3. Alcohol kills substantially more people than cocaine.
>
>Is human life not worth more than an addiction that can be
>treated? Which do you think is the harder drug if one takes
>life significantly more than the other?
>
>>I give up. Hopefully you eventually find a crowd of 13 year
>>old trustafarians who can look up to you as the great
>prophet
>>you carry yourself as.
>
>I find that ironic since I posted the data, was attacked for
>it, and now you are accusing me of patronizing you, or acting
>as a prophet, LOL. The logic in this place never ceases to
>amaze me.
>
>You can study the data yourself and present it to your
>friends, it doesn't make you a prophet.
>
>Sigh. I cannot "lose" an argument which is supported by
>scientific data. You are on the wrong side of the fence.

>Alcohol kills more people because vastly more people take it,
>but a lower proportion of alcohol users die than cocaine
>users.
>

Incorrect.

>Nobody is disputing alcohol has a bigger negative effect on
>society than cocaine... of COURSE it does, it's everywhere and
>cocaine is confined to comparably tiny populations.
>

35 million people in the United States alone is hardly a tiny population.

>Are you also going to try and argue alcohol is more harmful
>than cyanide and falling off skyscrapers?
>

Strawman.

>If your nephew came in tonight and asked if he should have a
>beer or a bowl of crack, which would you advise he did?
>

Loaded Question.

It would be better if you just admit that much and keep it moving.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

"let me educate these people on the dangers of _____"

Please be aware that we have access to all the information you do.

Some of us may have actually lived longer than you (Imagine that)

You are operating from a place of privilege and you need to check yourself.

*****************************************
huh

:)

That would be a FAR more sensible conversation.

I personally believe that Capitalist society treats its citizens as nothing but consumers.

Our only purpose as consumers is to consume.

There are many legal and destructive drugs which destroy us. We begin as children with processed sugar. That gives us a taste of our first high, or "sugar rush".

We graduate to caffeine when we are a little bit older.

Finally, we graduate to alcohol and other drugs.

The leaders of society tell us that they have our best interest in mind, and they establish agencies to "fight drugs", meanwhile, the most potent and destructive drugs are all available at the corner store.

We judge and condemn people using "illegal" drugs as trash, bums, low lifes, all while pumping our children and each other with legal drugs which destroy our health and dignity, and which are far more destructive than "illegal" drugs.

We use the economically and socially compromised individuals as a scapegoat, as something to make ourselves feel better about our own choices. We pretend to want to help them as well.

As I said already, society is a farce for the insane.

.
.
.
"Today is your day to have a better life -- it's your right."

mainly 'cause part of me is ready to follow the money on that Mother Jones article to see if I end up at GD Searle, Tate & Lyle, or Hoechst AG.
---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

>

Alcohol affects the user and third party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdsN_vYZ3w8

Heard him on the Joe Rogan show for the first time a little while back. I'll check this out tomorrow.

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/19/5727712/the-three-deadliest-drugs-in-america-are-all-totally-legal

I dont drink once a week on average but I know that alcohol being the most dangerous drug is bullshit

i'll even argue so many people drink because they can get buzzed or wasted without the regrettable effects of harder drugs

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/23/marijuana-may-be-even-safer-than-previously-thought-researchers-say/?tid=rssfeed

Guess which drug is the most dangerous!?