my new years resolution is to not correct ppl on OKP.
so no responses from me will accuse you of
being a coon, or call you stupid, or whatever
I normally do when I disagree with ppl about this.

question 1: if black kids would dress better,
quit listening to rap, completely stop all drug experimentation,
not have sex until they got married, save and invest all the money they have instead of buying clothes, rims, and sneakers, and give their
life to christ,

would that solve the problems black people face?

question 2: if the problem wouldn't be solved, how much better
would life in america be for black people if
overnight, all black people became conservatively
dressed, 100 percent law abiding, god fearing citizens?

question 3: assuming all black people became 100 percent respectable tomorrow, what else would have to be done to get true equality?

question 4: how do you respond to disillusioned black youth that feel that no amount of respectability politics can actually change their lives for the better?


No snark.
No condescension.

I am asking because I want to understand the perspective
of ppl I often disagree with (online and off).

is that we need to to better for the sake of doing better, not so white folk would treat us better.

>is that we need to to better for the sake of doing better,
>not so white folk would treat us better.


as in, travon/ garner/ wouldnt have died if
black people would just ______ .

i hear it from "middle class" black church members
as often as I hear it from white congregations
when I talk to them about community involvement.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i don't think a drug free, sex with only one person ever life is
"better." at least not for me.

but promiscuity comes up so much when we talk about
respectability politics that I just conceded the point.

we are all god fearing, conservatively dressed, drug free,
mostly sexless, 100 percent law abiding citizens.

now what?

what's the endgame?

do people hyping up respectability politics think that will solve the problem?

I want to know what they think.

one slip up and someone's gonna jump and say "SEEEE!!! I TOLD YALL!! NIGGERS!!!"

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>one slip up and someone's gonna jump and say "SEEEE!!! I TOLD
>YALL!! NIGGERS!!!"
>


i feel you.

of everything you wrote, that stood out to me. the rest? i wouldn't suggest people seriously entertain do those things as a means to improve their life.

but the money part? yeah, i see people improving themselves by getting right in that area...

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

i strive for excellence.
there's a significant portion of the population that does.

my question is, if all black people were to become perfectly excellent tomorrow (no boozing, no drugs, better fashion choices, no promiscuity, etc.) how much would that do to eliminate the problems
that black people have?

what would still need to be done to prevent stuff like the garner case
if black people were perfectly excellent?

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>i strive for excellence.
>there's a significant portion of the population that does.
>
>my question is, if all black people were to become perfectly
>excellent tomorrow (no boozing, no drugs, better fashion
>choices, no promiscuity, etc.) how much would that do to
>eliminate the problems
>that black people have?

I think racism in America has primarily taken the form of punishing black people more severely for their indiscretions. We're more likely to get a severe punishment for the same things other people do and we're less liekly to get the leeway to recover.

To me, if you can avoid as many of those pitfalls as possible, you're less likely to be subject to racism (though by no means immune).

>what would still need to be done to prevent stuff like the
>garner case
>if black people were perfectly excellent?

What if Garner was an accountant rather tha a repeat though non-violent offender that was known by police in the area? What if black people weren't perceived as paticularly dangerous and requiring maximum force to subdue and control? (which, I think, is a theme that's introduced into discussions about excessive police force when people bring up black-on-black crime stats as justification for extreme police violence)

It's less likely there would've been a Gardner case... and if there were, more people would be sympathetic to what happened to him.

>) how much would that do to
>eliminate the problems
>that black people have?
>

education -> income -> access
working poor/middle class whites can't even get the government to act in their best interests so i'm not sure anyone is arguing that improved standards of living for black ppl == elimination of every issue
when you as a group rank at the bottom of most important metrics any net improvement is welcome i'd imagine


>what would still need to be done to prevent stuff like the
>garner case
>if black people were perfectly excellent?

something systematic and unlikely in the short term
40+ yrs of incremental progress and we're still getting killed in the streets
not sure we have the timeframe to pretend improvement as a community is mutually exclusive of racism
you could argue that the dogma of the NOI was built on "respectability politics" in a racist society. so it's nothing new and not necessarily kowtowing to whitey imo
ppl need to stop purposely conflating the issue

and yes, NOI was very much about respectability politics.
the reason some ppl dog the concept out now is beause
often, the argument for respectability politics gets made
in the middle of ppl protesting about lack of funding in black schools,
lack of prosecutorial oversight in cases where cops kill negros, and various other systemic problems that have nothing to do with "black on black" crime.

it often sounds like a deflection,
and in some case they are just lying (why isnt there black outrage
over the murder rate in chicago?)

but yes, malcolm was all about respectability politics.
his message was needed.




>>) how much would that do to
>>eliminate the problems
>>that black people have?
>>
>
>education -> income -> access
>working poor/middle class whites can't even get the government
>to act in their best interests so i'm not sure anyone is
>arguing that improved standards of living for black ppl ==
>elimination of every issue
>when you as a group rank at the bottom of most important
>metrics any net improvement is welcome i'd imagine
>
>
>>what would still need to be done to prevent stuff like the
>>garner case
>>if black people were perfectly excellent?
>
>something systematic and unlikely in the short term
>40+ yrs of incremental progress and we're still getting killed
>in the streets
>not sure we have the timeframe to pretend improvement as a
>community is mutually exclusive of racism
>you could argue that the dogma of the NOI was built on
>"respectability politics" in a racist society. so it's nothing
>new and not necessarily kowtowing to whitey imo
>ppl need to stop purposely conflating the issue
>

Q1: No. And white kids listen to rap music too, have just as much premarital sex, plus experiment with drugs WAY more than kids of color. Not even debatable.

Q2: I don't know. Perhaps somewhat. But this is asking Black people to be something that no one else has to be. Which is dumb to me.

Q3: Dismantle white supremacy, overthrow capitalism, destroy hetero-patriarchy.

Q4: I tell them they're right. Sagging pants, hoodies, and rap music are not the problem. White supremacy is.

in real life.

that doesn't really answer the question. (not that you have to.)

In my opinion, the biggest problem the collective world suffers from is the misplaced value in materialism and lack of education. Many of us will choose money over character/knowledge.

Humanity is still evolving, and perhaps still too young to embrace altruistic values over material ones. Part of that is social programming, sure, part of that is political and socio-economic influence. The majority of our issues are in part due to the disconnect between each other and nature.

Caring for others, and wanting to see them elevate to a level of excellence that exceeds their current state is a good thing. Attempting to tell people how they should do that however, is not.

The conditions you outlined are impractical given their specificity. Christ has nothing to do with having good values, neither does waiting for marriage before you have sex. As soon as you start imposing rules/guidelines to progress, you become a Tyrant and alienate yourself. Every tyrant in history has had to build walls to defend themselves from for a reason.

Education today is free. If you immerse yourself in any field for long enough, it elevates your character. People do not like being told what is right and wrong. We are experiential learners. We must feel, see, and touch for ourselves before we understand. Study science long enough and you see that religion does not have to play the most significant part in your daily life. Study philosophy and you learn about social virtues, order, and reasoning. Study health and medicine, and you learn about your own body and how to take care of it. Education builds good reason and creates good decision makers on its own.

If you educate someone, you never have to tell them something is wrong, or that they shouldn't do it. They will make the right choice themselves, and ultimately, that is what we should strive for. Good reason and character is symptomatic of education. I do not wish to live in a world where I am told what to do, or where I have to tell someone what to do. Education can free all of us from that struggle.

There are several ancient societies which practiced "self-governance", the only universal condition the government provided/advocated was to elevate the public through education. In fact, the concept of the University came from Egyptian "Mystery Schools" which initiated all candidates, and determined whether or not they possessed the right set of values to be admitted. Even drug use was seen as a positive experience, that only the well educated enjoyed.

Pythagoras, arguably one of the most brilliant people to ever live, spent 20 years attempting to be admitted into one such school. It is written about him that when he emerged from this school, his mere presence could still a riot. A place like Egypt, with all its wonders, was not conceived and built on the back of slaves. It was built by a society which prized education and character above all else.

The library in Alexandria, before it was destroyed, had volumes which were over 10,000 years old. Plato too, was initiated and educated in Egypt. Coincidentally, this is what I draw the inspiration for my OKP name from.

and holding value on whiteness and its "culture".

It comes from low self esteem, lacking historical context and have no knowledge of self/people/own culture.

youth?

I know whites will always have something to point at to prove we don't respect ourselves but I can't see how showing our underwear in public and imitating lil wayne's style HELPS our youth.

Unless you are in the top 5% of your class or play sports I can't see that many opportunities unless you start your own biz or work in the creative field.

whether it's right or wrong for a company to hire based on appearance is debatable
but ultimately we all adjust accordingly

I am wondering that if we stopped, how much would that help.

The things you mentioned would not be a panacea, and actually would be harmful imo because you'd be culturally throwing the baby out with the bath water....why not just bleach everyone's skin, too?

There were ideas and vernacular 50 years ago that are abhorred now, and there are ideas and vernacular now that will be abhorred in 50 years....it will take time. There are no quick fixes. That's my perspective.

And it's not a hyper-sensitivity that's needed...that's actually harmful, imo. The root need is education and respect. I don't even like the word Tolerance because that implies you hold ideas against a group but you're not voicing it.

______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg

- Way fewer black men caught up in the CJS, too.

- More of us can then vote and have a voice at the polls.

- Even fewer teenage pregnancies allow young people to have a fighting chance at a middle class life.

- Our household capital gets saved and spent more productively by focusing on the future and not just on the now (this might not be a RP thing, though).

You asked about Eric Garner. This is a trap. The cop was in violation of NYPD guidelines by putting him in a chokehold, and he definitely resorted to the chokehold because of racist stereotypes about the Big Black Brute. But selling loosies is against the law. That's no excuse for EG's death, though.

- Would it change racist majority attitudes about us? Not as much as we'd like, it at all. But we engage in a lot of self defeating behavior that's uncalled for. I get the impression that you disagree with that point - that you believe that our problems 100% lie outside of our control. *If* you believe that, then it makes sense that you'd reject the aims of respectability politics wholesale.

> I get the impression
>that you disagree with that point - that you believe that our
>problems 100% lie outside of our control. *If* you believe
>that, then it makes sense that you'd reject the aims of
>respectability politics wholesale.
>
>



we should all strive to be excellent.
I strive to be excellent.

I am all for malcolm x style respectability politics.

all the other stuff you wrote is true, though.

You're issue is with failing to place YT's guilt closer to the forefront.

Like...this country is literally based on...founded on lies and hypocrisy of the most egregious nature

And on a real note...nobody...not white people, not Asians...not Spanish people nobody is going to show Black people love because they can't be us

Like you can dye your hair and look white if you wanted to

You can look like the images on TV or whatever if you're other than black

But you can't dye your hair to look like mine. You can't widen your nose. If I become the standard...if *I* am beautiful and *you* literally cant look like me...then you are not beautiful in which Cass due to our binary human nature that means you're ugly

And nobody wants to be ugly so there is a deep need for all other races to shit on Black people

I'm rambling but I got some viable commentary and points in there


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

>But you can't dye your hair to look like mine.

it can be permed kinky
This Japanese kid I interned with in HS did that (I'm talking straight from Japan, only came here for college)
I really thought he was the only 100% Asian person with kinky hair EVER...
until one time he went too long between perms and his straight hair grew in kinda long
ZOMG

>my new years resolution is to not correct ppl on OKP.
>so no responses from me will accuse you of
>being a coon, or call you stupid, or whatever
>I normally do when I disagree with ppl about this.
>
>question 1: if black kids would dress better,
>quit listening to rap, completely stop all drug
>experimentation,
>not have sex until they got married, save and invest all the
>money they have instead of buying clothes, rims, and sneakers,
>and give their
>life to christ,
>
>would that solve the problems black people face?

Of course not but this makes racist white people feel better and gives them an opportunity to stick it to us.

>
>question 2: if the problem wouldn't be solved, how much better
>
>would life in america be for black people if
>overnight, all black people became conservatively
>dressed, 100 percent law abiding, god fearing citizens?

We're already conservatively dressed, 100 percent law abiding, god fearing citizens.

>
>question 3: assuming all black people became 100 percent
>respectable tomorrow, what else would have to be done to get
>true equality?

We're never achieving true equality in this country. By the way, when affirmative action ends this narrative will change dramatically. I won't make this post go poast but look up the true benefactors of affirmative action. Watch what happens when that rug gets pulled out from under them.

>
>question 4: how do you respond to disillusioned black youth
>that feel that no amount of respectability politics can
>actually change their lives for the better?

I'm with them and more than willing to put them up on game. Spoiler alert young buck but they hate and feel superior to you. No amount of play the right way is changing that narrative any time soon. I rephrase this question to white people whenever they ask me. One time I asked a bishop if his daughter dresses provocatively does that mean men have the right to hit on her with reckless abandon. Another time I asked a prejudice white dude if this means we should profile him like we profile terrorists due to his attire that mimics domestic terrorists. Basically, let's take this to the next level. Respectability politics applies to everyone and that is the narrative WE follow.

but at least they respected us...

hmmm....maybe they didn't respect us after all.