I was talking to an Old Head last Sunday while I was eating and watching the Game (Falcons vs. Saints) at Buffalo Wild Wings. And somehow the conversation turned from sports to music. Anyway, the Old Head hit me with a comment about the current state of music and dude said, "It's sad, but this generation has no musical classics."

He was talking about how 80's and 90's Rap sampled those good Funk and R&B classics of the 60's and 70's (some 80's) to help make Hip-Hop hits. He was cool with that because Rap in the 80-90's was new to some, but the rap music from those eras helped to create Rap Classics - built on a foundation of true R&B classics. But he said, this current generation is assed-out because they have NO Classics due to the fact that the current sate of RAP is So Awful and the R&B is even worst. He was going on (i have to agree) about how today's R&B has no substance, style, or class - it all fell off in the late 90's.

Do you agree or disagree?




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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

point being, 1995 is faaaaaar off from the "early beginnings" of hip hop and still classics being produced

it surely don't fit in with Kurtis Blow, Force MDs or Whodini

matter fact, Doggystyle sampled a few albums of that era being La Di Da Di

point being, there have been classics made post 1995.

and you can't say nothing about them Ursher confessions albums not being classics

A better example would be Good Kid, M.A.A.D. City.

i thought generations lasted 30 years or so
so from say 2013, how far back do we get to go for this generation then make the cutpoints for the next two generations after that
say 2013 - 1998
1997 - 1982
1981 - 1966

something like that?

just so we're clear here

is in the same generation.

Musically I'd say every 10 years there is a new generation. Maybe a little more than that. Definitely less than 20 years though.

yall saying no classics been made 2003 - 2013?

i call hogwash
just because YALL old asses dont like it dont mean these youngings wont remember the tunes and they have a special place in these kids hearts

i know for a fact "you're a jerk" will hold a special place in MANY SoCal kids heart in 15 years from now


when i was growing up, east coast niggas couldnt stand Death Row music
to me, every Tha Click and E-40 album is a classic with BANGERS
same for Brotha Lynch Hung

but a nigga from South Carolina or Florida might not agree

Case and oldman said this generation has no classics
i gave two that i thought were classics
then you came in rebuking me
then we had our entire exchange

so you agree with me or na?

no matter how horrible the music is,
these kids have "classics" in their minds

Usher's Confessions is though. That's a classic IMO.

you getting into grey areas with dividing your generations

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

this OUR post now.
we taken over

>this OUR post now.
>we taken over


lol... You made me LOL for real.




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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

when it comes on. Like will people be like "Yo that's my Joint!"


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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

>when it comes on. Like will people be like "Yo that's my
>Joint!"



more ppl know tootsie roll nationwide
but in the south if you play
d
i
c
k-e-y
d-i-c-k-e-y

the dancefloor gets PACKED at a 30 - 45 year old party

Yeah, that's a stretch, but I made it anyway.



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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

classic? maybe.

i suspect beyonce's "partition" will be a club jam forever.
maybe not the song you play at 1:00 am,
but it will get ppl on the floor around 11:00, like "yeah!" by usher.


>Yeah, that's a stretch, but I made it anyway.
>
>
>
>.
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>"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens
>for Justified Murderers."

style for arguments sake. How many albums is that? 3 or 4 (IHDK how many albums Usher dropped)?

Don't you know that between the years of 1988 and 1993, there was a classic album being dropped on average of about one a month?

There MAY Be some classics nowadays, but the dearth of classics and quality music has dropped so significant over the past 15 to 20 years, that it's beyond fathomable.

i dont even like that song but when they play it at every type of event of all races, several years after it came out,
it's a classic

how many weddings you go to where you DONT hear the wobble?

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

fact is,
they are CLASSICS being made

how many ppl MEN AND WOMEN know that ursher album by HEART
or AAliyahs' last album?

cmon dude

classics being made

Beyonce - Single Ladies aint a classic?

you've said so far in this post

and probably not decide to contribute further

>i dont even like that song but when they play it at every
>type of event of all races, several years after it came out,
>it's a classic
>
>how many weddings you go to where you DONT hear the wobble?

It's played a LOT. An awful lot. Like... everywhere. Along with this other awful "Cha Cha" bullshit. It's novelty bullshit, like Weird Al. Scratch that, because Weird Al has some genius to him. A grown up Yo Gabba Gabba is probably the best description.

It's no different from "Who Let The Dogs Out" and it's going to wind up in some awful Dreamworks animated film in the next ten years.

the wobble is a classic and is here to stay


>>i dont even like that song but when they play it at every
>>type of event of all races, several years after it came out,
>
>>it's a classic
>>
>>how many weddings you go to where you DONT hear the wobble?
>
>It's played a LOT. An awful lot. Like... everywhere. Along
>with this other awful "Cha Cha" bullshit. It's novelty
>bullshit, like Weird Al. Scratch that, because Weird Al has
>some genius to him. A grown up Yo Gabba Gabba is probably the
>best description.
>
>It's no different from "Who Let The Dogs Out" and it's going
>to wind up in some awful Dreamworks animated film in the next
>ten years.

but there is classic good music for all
its now up to the listener to find it
labels and radio are not worried about quality and are more concerned with ads

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

but i dont listen to enough new shit to know of that many classics
that kendrick is a classic
these youngsters might call drake's albums classics
i dunno
whoever be on the radio all the time

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

i get paid for that, buddy

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

that's how i came to know OKP
graduate studies at three different ivy league schools
harvard
yale
upenn

that's how and when i met different OKP face to face is on campus

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

Hip Hop:

Run The Jewels (2013)
Krit - Cadillactica (2014)
Pusha T - My Name is My Name (2013)
Vince Staples - Hell Can Wait (2014)
Chance the Rapper - Acid Rap (2014)

r&b
FKA Twigs -LP1 (2014)
D - Black Messiah
Beyonce (2013)
Bilal -Love Surreal
Miguel - Kaleidoscope Dream(2012)

Ain't none of these Classics. Sure they may be good for the time, but CLASSIC. No they are not.

>Hip Hop:
>
>Run The Jewels (2013)
>Krit - Cadillactica (2014)
>Pusha T - My Name is My Name (2013)
>Vince Staples - Hell Can Wait (2014)
>Chance the Rapper - Acid Rap (2014)
>

^^ NONE EVER ^^


>r&b

>D - Black Messiah

^^This just came out and it's juts good. Not Great!^^



>Miguel - Kaleidoscope Dream(2012)

^^ Maybe^^

doesnt take away from the fact that i feel they are classic
some others feel the same way
all that matters

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

and not many of the albums i listed did commercially well

Off these CDS. LOL

>Hip Hop:
>
>Run The Jewels (2013)
>Krit - Cadillactica (2014)
>Pusha T - My Name is My Name (2013)
>Vince Staples - Hell Can Wait (2014)
>Chance the Rapper - Acid Rap (2014)
>
>r&b
>FKA Twigs -LP1 (2014)
>D - Black Messiah
>Beyonce (2013)
>Bilal -Love Surreal
>Miguel - Kaleidoscope Dream(2012)

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/albums/score/metascore/year?sort=desc&year_selected=2014

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

i dont think a mass collection of critic reviews and user reviews is a bad starting place, honestly.

these hoes aint loyal will be here

for example


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

kanye has classics.

depending on what type of rap you like,
you are a fan of either:
college drop out (for back packers), late registration (for r&b heads), graduation (for pop fans), my beautiful dark twisted fantasy (for rockists).

these albums will be seen as classics, if they aren't already.
"yeezus" might be seen as a misstep, but it might become a cult classic later on.

i don't like where r&b is, but this generation had "confessions."
every song was good enough to be a single,
and it even had a nifty back story to add to its legacy.
it'll go down as a classic if it's not seen as one already.

and if you quibble with that choice i should remind you that
d'anglelo dropped black messiah recently, which is at least a very good album
and probably on of the all time great album.

btw, beyonce just made her strongest artistic statement to date
with that latest album she did last year.
it still gets burn in clubs.

kids will like rhianna the same way we like janet.


music is fine.
music is always fine.

and even if it isn't fine kids these days have access to the Internet
and can find old albums that they think are classic
that we have overlooked. (sorta like some ppl in our generation went back and decided
that our parents missed the boat on Donny Hathaway).

the Internet has made it not unusual to be into a bunch of old music.
kids are jamming to some of the same music you did.
talk to them.

they are up on golden era hip hop.


the kids are alright.
the kids are always alright.

that won't stop old ppl like me from tripping though.
just like my grandparents tripped when they heard motown
and my great grandparents tripped when they heard bebop.



the truth is, somebody could drop a classic tomorrow
and i might not recognize it as a classic anymore than your parents
could see the value of "paid in full." because it's not up to me to
decide what's quality and what's not anymore. it's not up to you anymore, either.


in other words,
we old.

>i don't like where r&b is, but this generation had
>"confessions."
>every song was good enough to be a single,
>and it even had a nifty back story to add to its legacy.
>it'll go down as a classic if it's not seen as one already.

>btw, beyonce just made her strongest artistic statement to
>date
>with that latest album she did last year.
>it still gets burn in clubs.

>(sorta like some ppl in our
>generation went back and decided
>that our parents missed the boat on Donny Hathaway).


>the truth is, somebody could drop a classic tomorrow
>and i wouldn't recognize it as a classic anymore than your
>parents
>could see the value of "paid in full."
>
>
>in other words,
>we old.
>
>

i realise that we are the same person
just that you hold so much hatred in your heart for me
i dunno why
you never met me
so why you hate me so bad?

"We're not so different, you and I...."

nm

At its worse, that album completed the opening of a pandora's box for rap cats cooing all over the place, but that doesn't take away from the influence and the love that album had (and deserves). And I'll still roll with the idea that you can't blame the 'original' for bad copies. And there's some SONGS on that album in between the 'too far into the water' moments that people point to when it comes time to hate on it.

Kanye is probably the most 'complete' of the visible rap cats in the 2000s. By that, he's basically capable of going in any direction he wants to and creating something of quality that'll be viewed as a template for others to follow even if it isn't the 'best' crack at what he was going for at the time..if that makes sense. Dark Fantasy is his 'definitive' album to me..it has just about everything that he is in there somewhere. And Watch The Throne will always be a grand victory lap accompanying album for me. To me, Yeezus is his Secret Life of Plants and now I have no idea what he'll do next.

All of that to say this: it is unfair that Kanye is discredited historically because he has largely existed in a world without other 'legends in their prime' to compete with. There's no Kane for him to be a Rakim with. Or no Jay for him to be a Nas with. Not even a Bone for him to be Twista with. But everyone rapping nowadays isn't Chief Keef. It is more logical to argue that he is an weird benefactor of the change in times that won't allow most artists to be 'universally beloved' like a mid-80s MJ or Prince. And that's the case even in a box as 'just rap dudes'.

Jimaveli

>kanye has classics.
>
>depending on what type of rap you like,
>you are a fan of either:
>college drop out (for back packers), late registration (for
>r&b heads), graduation (for pop fans), my beautiful dark
>twisted fantasy (for rockists).
>
>these albums will be seen as classics, if they aren't already.
>
>"yeezus" might be seen as a misstep, but it might become a
>cult classic later on.
>
>i don't like where r&b is, but this generation had
>"confessions."
>every song was good enough to be a single,
>and it even had a nifty back story to add to its legacy.
>it'll go down as a classic if it's not seen as one already.
>
>and if you quibble with that choice i should remind you that
>d'anglelo dropped black messiah recently, which is at least a
>very good album
>and probably on of the all time great album.
>
>btw, beyonce just made her strongest artistic statement to
>date
>with that latest album she did last year.
>it still gets burn in clubs.
>
>kids will like rhianna the same way we like janet.
>
>
>music is fine.
>music is always fine.
>
>and even if it isn't fine kids these days have access to the
>Internet
>and can find old albums that they think are classic
>that we have overlooked. (sorta like some ppl in our
>generation went back and decided
>that our parents missed the boat on Donny Hathaway).
>
>the Internet has made it not unusual to be into a bunch of old
>music.
>kids are jamming to some of the same music you did.
>talk to them.
>
>they are up on golden era hip hop.
>
>
>the kids are alright.
>the kids are always alright.
>
>that won't stop old ppl like me from tripping though.
>just like my grandparents tripped when they heard motown
>and my great grandparents tripped when they heard bebop.
>
>
>
>the truth is, somebody could drop a classic tomorrow
>and i might not recognize it as a classic anymore than your
>parents
>could see the value of "paid in full." because it's not up to
>me to
>decide what's quality and what's not anymore. it's not up to
>you anymore, either.
>
>
>in other words,
>we old.
>
>

Every 30 years we get a classic decade.

1960s, 1990s, so 2020s is destined to be that decade.

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

But...

sometimes it's hard to consider something classic when it drops after your formative years

______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

80s and 90s you got classic albums by PE, EPMD, LL, KRS, Ice Cube, Dre, Snoop, ATCQ, Kast, etc. The current albums just don't match up IMO.

the good old days.

well let's talk about the good old days.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=06KJr8-Wc8k

^ gladys letting ya'll know what's happening here.

say it aint
i dare you!

For showing how far the mentality of niggers hasn't come and how thorough the conditioning is in a historical, pop culture context - absolutely!

none?

i got video of an entire nightclub of 2,000 people overshouting the soundsystem to every single word of it aint no fun

niggers...


but white ppl know that shit too

Timewise, you're looking at this in the way we look at generations of human beings. It doesn't translate.

Art, culture and technology changes faster than humans give birth.

Within music- particularly urban genres- the sound and direction changes rapidly and a particular sound/crew/label will dominate the mainstream airwaves for a time before giving way to another. You simply can't view cultural, artistic, or technological generations along the same clear-cut general lines as you do humans. You have to look at where trends ebb and flow to define where a generation begins and ends, not some arbitrary timeline.

Musical mediums alone have undergone at least 4 dramatically different changes in the last 20 years. We've gone from the Walkman to the Discman to MP3 players to streaming services.

Doggystyle's "generation" was all but dead by the time "Life After Death" hit. Puffy and his shiny suits ran the airwaves until Hard Knock Life hit and Def Jam snatched it right back with Jay, DMX, Meth, etc. While that was bubbling, Rawkus built a sizable niche between 97-02. Those two collective entities really represent a generation unto itself. No Limit also built an empire during this timeframe.

Then you had Aftermath. Aftermath from TSSLP-The Eminem Show represents one generation of that sound, including "2001", and I'd even throw in Xzibit's Restless/MvM albums, despite being released on Loud. Once 50 and G-Unit hit, they supplanted Dre's crew as a new generation with a different sound, though still obviously an Aftermath product.

Of course you have the Neptunes and Rocafella overlapping with these, not to mention regionally dominant stalwarts like E-40 and Three Six Mafia, for example.The point is to give an in depth analysis of the last twenty years of urban music, but to illustrate that a "generation" in music really consists of pockets of mainstream visibility that can last anywhere from six months to four years, and these often overlap.

>Timewise, you're looking at this in the way we look at
>generations of human beings. It doesn't translate.
>
>Art, culture and technology changes faster than humans give
>birth.
>
>Within music- particularly urban genres- the sound and
>direction changes rapidly and a particular sound/crew/label
>will dominate the mainstream airwaves for a time before giving
>way to another. You simply can't view cultural, artistic, or
>technological generations along the same clear-cut general
>lines as you do humans. You have to look at where trends ebb
>and flow to define where a generation begins and ends, not
>some arbitrary timeline.
>
>Musical mediums alone have undergone at least 4 dramatically
>different changes in the last 20 years. We've gone from the
>Walkman to the Discman to MP3 players to streaming services.
>
>Doggystyle's "generation" was all but dead by the time "Life
>After Death" hit. Puffy and his shiny suits ran the airwaves
>until Hard Knock Life hit and Def Jam snatched it right back
>with Jay, DMX, Meth, etc. While that was bubbling, Rawkus
>built a sizable niche between 97-02. Those two collective
>entities really represent a generation unto itself. No Limit
>also built an empire during this timeframe.
>
>Then you had Aftermath. Aftermath from TSSLP-The Eminem Show
>represents one generation of that sound, including "2001", and
>I'd even throw in Xzibit's Restless/MvM albums, despite being
>released on Loud. Once 50 and G-Unit hit, they supplanted
>Dre's crew as a new generation with a different sound, though
>still obviously an Aftermath product.
>
>Of course you have the Neptunes and Rocafella overlapping with
>these, not to mention regionally dominant stalwarts like E-40
>and Three Six Mafia, for example.The point is to give an in
>depth analysis of the last twenty years of urban music, but to
>illustrate that a "generation" in music really consists of
>pockets of mainstream visibility that can last anywhere from
>six months to four years, and these often overlap.

that's what you sound like.

>For showing how far the mentality of niggers hasn't come and
>how thorough the conditioning is in a historical, pop culture
>context - absolutely!

porter has been put out some dope shit, but most people don't know who he is although he's "critically acclaimed"

even tho he was singing christmas carols on Good Morning America with some old white lady looking like Liza Minelli the other day

but Glasper dont make CLASSICS
he just makes GREAT music that will never be heard by the masses

the same people that think niki manaj has"bars"

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

why you treat me so bad?
rumours?

them shits was gimmicky as hell and aint even "good music" as far as that time frame was concerned
you had Luther, Stevie and Anita Baker FLAMING the airwaves
as well as the Krush Groove style rappers

but now, if you play either of them two songs (rumours or WYTMSB) they get the entire party ROCKING at a VFW or American Legion

that scored above an 88 since 2001-ish. and these are just the black albums. this also doesnt take into account the rise of mixtape albums, singles, etc.

Critic rankings:

Stankonia - Outkast
Black Messiah D'Angelo
My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy - Kanye West
Madvillainy - Mad Villain
In Search Of - NERD
Channel Orange - Frank Ocean
Speakerboxx/The Love Below - Outkast
Good Kid, MAAD City - Kendrick Lamar
The ArchAndroid - Janelle Monae
Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty - Big Boi
Charity Starts at Home - Phonte
RTJ2 - Run the Jewels
Miss E... So Addictive - Missy Elliot
Hell Hath No Fury - Clipse
The Greatest Story Never Told - Saigon
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx... Pt. II - Raekwon
Undun - The Roots
The Blueprint - Jay Z
Fishscale - Ghostface Killah
Cadillactica - Big KRIT

User Score (minus the duplicates), rated over 9.0
I Learned The Hard Way - I Learned The Hard Way - Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings
Back to Me - Fantasia
Aaliyah - Aaliyah
Troubadour - K'Naan
Philadelphia Freeway - Freeway
This Is Not A Test! - Missy Elliot
Shine - Estelle
Emeritus - Scarface
The Cool - Lupe Fiasco
Be - Common
Distant Relatives - Nas & Damian Marley
etc etc etc (this is taking too long)

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

albums released within this generation. you (and me at this point) old, so you probably havent heard half of them and that's fine. just explains why you may be out of touch with the current music scene.

>albums released within this generation. you (and me at this
>point) old, so you probably havent heard half of them and
>that's fine. just explains why you may be out of touch with
>the current music scene.


But who's gonna sample any of this current music to help build a new foundation.


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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

>
>But who's gonna sample any of this current music to help build
>a new foundation.
>
>
>.
>.
>.
>"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens
>for Justified Murderers."

is only going to be musically inspired by music created up until like 1996, then its safe to say the next generation will be inspired by their current music just like the generations before them.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2912892&mesg_id=2912892&page=#2912993

....

around that age would be relevant to them. maybe not.

....I'm not like most of the ppl here - different generational cohort.

>Stankonia - Outkast
>Black Messiah D'Angelo
>Only Built 4 Cuban Linx... Pt. II - Raekwon
>Fishscale - Ghostface Killah
>Be - Common


which one of them is not like the others

Many times you don't really know til 20 to 30 years later, we will see

when you have that level of classic being created it is easy for things to fall by the way side.

Today people are excited about J Cole because shit is so wack and obvious anyone with a ounce of talent and attention to skill and detail in the mainstream is lauded.

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

some ppl saying music aint the same.
some ppl saying it's always been this way.

you moving the goal post whenever you feel like it.
ppl calling you out on it.
you acting brand new.

etc.


it won't change much from what it is now.
this post comes up once a month.

which is #1 reason i come here

if we go by sales, a lot of the stuff WE thought were classics
usually were barely a blip on the radar.

sometimes something is popular and great.
but the stuff that makes these classic album lists wasnt always
the popular stuff.

it gets added to the cannon later.

many albums that will later be viewed as classics
might not be that popular right now.

the kids are no different than us.

is a slippery slope

an Old Head say 40 years old and up may not regard this shit as classic, but when the current 25 year olds are 40, they will regard the music that they grew up with as classic just like oh.....EVERY GENERATION THAT HAS EVER EXISTED.

The old head you are talking about is from another generation, and therefore really won't get it, and will be near death or dead by the time the current stuff out is highly regarded.

Fuck it.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

where she been lately anyway?

unfortunately i dont know none of her songs

and i'm not even a personal fan but yea

I loved YG's album, some people say it's trash because he isnt rapping using big words over DJ Premier beats

As I type this Im listening to the new Ghostface album "36 Seasons", it isnt very good at all yet some people loved it because it's "real" hip-hop

>I loved YG's album, some people say it's trash because he
>isnt rapping using big words over DJ Premier beats
>
>As I type this Im listening to the new Ghostface album "36
>Seasons", it isnt very good at all yet some people loved it
>because it's "real" hip-hop
>
>


ThAts true perhaps it's all relative, there is stuff my generation views as classic that our parents wouldn't agree with

>I loved YG's album, some people say it's trash because he
>isnt rapping using big words over DJ Premier beats
>
>As I type this Im listening to the new Ghostface album "36
>Seasons", it isnt very good at all yet some people loved it
>because it's "real" hip-hop
>
>


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Get 25% off www.karmaloop.com w/ rep code JR9103 |
Nike, G-Star, Herschel, Adidas (Men's & Women's clothing)

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"America, stop turning our Court Houses of Justice into Dens for Justified Murderers."

old ppl that don't keep their ear to the ground
to find out what young ppl are hearing in the music they like.

if you find yourself making an argument about music
that sounds exactly like arguments old ppl made about hip hop,
you are out of touch.

if you think all of the young ppl's music sounds the same,
you're out of touch.

nttatwwt.

or they feel like the only good rap sounds like whatever their tastes is

I like Chief Keef songs and I like Kendrick Lamar. I dont like Chief Keef to appear open minded, I hardly ever like Young Thug/Migos, but Keef is one of the "bad" guys who appeals to me

it's the same as a NBA fanatic feeling like the last good generation of players was Magic & Bird

It's basically "hater" with an extra syllable. It's a way to try to intellectualize you're own stance on the material while disqualifying criticism on manipulated grounds. If you define critics of a particular piece of work in a negative way (i.e, out of touch) it makes it easier for you to rationalize your wholesale dismissal while retaining some sense of comfort in your own stance.

In the end those are two albums that have decidedly niche appeal, even if one skews much more mainstream than the other. There's absolutely nothing special, groundbreaking, refreshing, or new about BOTS anymore than 36 Seasons. The difference is simply the audience

Shit, Yo Gotti did YG better than YG on "I Know". He took YG's entire sound- literally, his entire. fucking. sound..... and did it far better. That beat takes the DJ Mustard formula and just plain did it better.

>There's absolutely nothing special, groundbreaking,
>refreshing, or new about BOTS anymore than 36 Seasons. The
>difference is simply the audience

Im not crazy about Blame It On The Streets (assumed you meant that and not 2Chainz Based On A Tru Story)

but yeah anyone who doesnt like My Krazy Life is out of touch in my opinion, and by out of touch I mean they're going against consensus whether they're intentionally standoffish or their tastes genuinely dont line up

but yeah back to Case One's point, anyone who feels like there's 0 good Hip-Hop in the mainstream (I enjoy Rick Ross, Wale, and even a few Drake songs) gave up a while ago

i mean is everything today absolute garbage? no. but the people making an argument that shit hasn't fallen off are scraping for marginal examples when if we made this post 20 years ago, they'd be reeling all sorts of shit off and getting co-signs. that is telling.

the main problem with the music industry today and also the film industry today is that the lowest common denominator of the audience has gotten more common and, in turn, lower. it used to be that popular media was directed at the very dumbest people in your own country. now it's directed at the very dumbest people IN THE WORLD, many of whom don't even speak the same language. mass appeal on steroids.

i'd agree that this may be different.
there are more corporate hands in the stew and it makes
a lot of finished products less daring.

but let's take a step back.
most of your favorite classic albums that were super innovative didnt sell that well.
especially if you look at rap.

a lot of classics got to be classics because rap wasnt fully commodified yet.
artists essentially did what they wanted because corporate hands were not paying attention to the artists.

that's not different from what happened to punk/ rock/ *insert older genre*

the system has not changed.
our awareness of that system may have changed,
but the amount of good music has not changed.

most of it is, and has always been, crap.

a lot of classics were classics in their own time, either by big sales or being recognized as musician's music.

a record like the miseducation of lauryn hill or the score or the first eminem record didn't need time. they were classics fresh out of the box. same shit with the chronic records. nobody was overlooking enter the 36 chambers. there are some *good* records out there in the mainstream today, but nothing like those.

then let's look at something like camp lo's uptown saturday night, which developed an instant cult following. the tribe and de la records were kind of like that on a bigger scale. or going into another genre, some shit like the band's music from big pink or jimi's are you experienced. they might not have been all over the three networks or anything, but anybody who knew music was into them and saw the long-term potential immediately.

Everybody in that age group or music scene viewed them as classics not everybody, there are records still at the top of the charts and still records winning Grammys and critically acclaimed , and twenty years fom now whether you and your peers see them as classics will be irrelevant because he kids growing up on this music will be calling the shots.

Word?

*weebay face*

dude just ain't up on the new stuff

music of a younger generation.
they will decide on their classics.

we're removed from that
'feeling' that comes with youth.
even if we're still somewhat into
their music, it aint the same.

we're always going to say its
less than simply because it aint ours,
no matter how good it actually might be.

is this whole "to me" thing that people do. You can't have a feasible discussion because no matter what you say, if it's contrary to what someone thinks (even if you can quantify it and they can't), the rebuttal is almost always, "well to me it's ____."
I tend to not engage people that think with that level of binary connotation, and I'm finding that I'm running into them more and more frequently lately.

so the problem with arguing subjects that are based on subjective opinions are, that people will counter based on how they feel or their perspective of what it is they're arguing about.

few people change their minds on something based on argument. they just have to experience it for themselves...

that's like religion, politics, and pretty much everything.

i guess it still comes back to doing your own thing. and the things you don't like you can complain about, or change. and if you're not doing anything to change it, then you're just complaining.


from what i've seen in the music as far as hip hop. the regions switched.

the west is the miami bass scene/new south. a lot of party music, and then you have some lyricists as well. the east is kinda on their g-funk mode in regards to boom bap.

and the south really is winnin as far as settin trends.

classic music is timeless. art imitates life. we're the social media age. things are getting better though, because we're outta the ringtone era.

it's more about an attitude with no intent on anything but a cosign. It isn't worth having if someone feels that way, and it plays as big a part as anything else in the generation gap. It shows that someone values their own opinion over anything else brought to the table, and one can't be open to new information if that's how they think.

...this isn't that hard.

Amy winehouse, Adele etc for the "soul" category..

Badu and all that neosoul from 15 yrs ago, including some from the roots is classic already but that was my generation... Not this generations.

http://youtu.be/9HvpIgHBSdo if he doesnt, put him on it

like i said the most original shit in the past 30 years was largely unoriginal, a mosaic of other songs with new twists. that was great for a while but now there is not even an effort at novelty, much less originality. honestly everything in mainstream music now is either a flagrant ripoff/reconstruction or, at best, a watered down version of shit that was only kind of popular. very few people doing anything different. even bands that are supposedly hip like the war on drugs are basically just human jukebox acts that started writing their own songs, like a robot that developed human emotions.

or, i should say, old ppl are always saying that about more recent music.
i tried for 10 yrs to argue curent music was "objectively" less original than older music.

i could never do it.

obviously there are only so many notes and combinations thereof, and people trying to get paid off a product are going to duplicate their successful counterparts. yet there were people who dared to do different things and shunned that type of mentality in the past that still managed to have success. now i think there are fewer, though there are still some. and you cant extricate the music from the music industry in some dismissive way. it's always been kinda dirty and it's always very much shaped eras of music, too. right now it's gotten pretty shameless, despite the proliferation of niches, media outlets, etc.

what did punk add to song structure that wasnt there
in old records from the the 50s?

an old person could say it was a warmed over version
of old records.

we can do this all day.

music is subjective.

i can't prove nas is a great artist to my mom. she doesn't like lauryn hill, either.
she's not wrong. i'm not wrong.
our ears are different.

it's mostly a generational thing.

some aspects of what constitutes a classic are different.
but really, nothing has changed.

not really.

The format for "what works" in terms of popular music holds strong pretty much across the board. That said...

>what did punk add to song structure that wasnt there
>in old records from the the 50s?

The structure isn't really the significant element though. Simply emphasizing the crash cymbal, distortion, and increasing the tempo yields a significant difference and that's just the start.

>an old person could say it was a warmed over version
>of old records.

Well, they could, but they'd be wrong, because ultimately it's not about the "what", it's about the "how". If they want to have a halfway decent conversation about music, then they'll avoid that argument. Music is subjective in that people have particular tastes, however there are plenty of elements that simply defy a simple matter of opinion. They could go all day about chord progressions or any number of elements, but it only takes small changes in certain elements to dramatically shift from one genre to the next.

>we can do this all day.
>
>music is subjective.

It depends on what's being discussed, really. If the discussion is centered around what I like vs what you like, then yes. If the discussion is, say, what makes a punk song punk and what makes a hip hop song hip hop, well... there are certain inarguable truths. There are always exceptions to the rule and there are always shades of gray, but there are general elements that create the overall sound and culture of a genre.

>i can't prove nas is a great artist to my mom.

Why can't you? He has had an inarguable impact. Again, if the conversation is simply about what you like and what she likes, that's one thing. If the conversation shifts toward what makes an artist great within the context of what they do, then yes, you can prove that Nas is a great artist. I think racing fucking sucks, yet I could quantify why Dale Earnhardt Jr. is great at what he does. I still think racing specifically and car culture in general is unbelievably boring, stupid, and generally worthless, but I can accept that there is greatness to be found within the context of that culture.

tells me there ain't much of it out there.

and then like i fuck with some foreign exchange stuff, too, but it aint large enough to be classic IMO

In any given era most of the music was garbage. It just gets forgotten and all we remember is the best. This generation is no different. The older generation always says the music of the younger generation is trash and it won't last etc. This is nothing new. It happens over and over.

http://i61.tinypic.com/10eplqr.jpg

controlled by a handful of corporations.

Black people in the USA have never been this delusional, disconnected and caught up in the media myth.

Truly great music is being released however much of it is not being heard and it ain't like the 70s or 60s when you heard great mainstream music that made it hard for truly great artist of lesser notoriety to be heard. Today the garbage is being promoted to block out any creativity, dissension from pop white "culture"(consumerism and white supremacy).

Most of the popular sounds are not classic they will not be played years from now where people will greatly enjoy them.

>controlled by a handful of corporations.
>

How is this when music is basically free now


>Black people in the USA have never been this delusional,
>disconnected and caught up in the media myth.

Yes and this is most unfortunate


>Most of the popular sounds are not classic they will not be
>played years from now where people will greatly enjoy them.
>

a lot of old heads that grew up on jazz and Motown or classic rock said the same things about hip hop when it first started and we still are listening

The thing is the people who will be determining classics 20 years from now are the ones growing up on this music and loving it now.

>
>

>How is this when music is basically free now

If I put you in a library and tell you to find the great books without any kind of card catalog( electronic or card) how will you find your way? I literally spend hours looking for music why because I'm a digger and as an artist I know I ain't the only guy out their that is on point but getting no play.

>>Black people in the USA have never been this delusional,
>>disconnected and caught up in the media myth.
>
>Yes and this is most unfortunate

So if you are delusional about your own culture and creation how can you determine classic from garbage?


> a lot of old heads that grew up on jazz and Motown or classic
>rock said the same things about hip hop when it first started
>and we still are listening

Hip Hop evolved from the pre 1985 style of rap and production. I think the production has evolved but in the mainstream niggas are creating EDM and old 90s beats like it something new with a synthesizer here or there. Its not new or innovated its a rehash of a rehash.

>The thing is the people who will be determining classics 20
>years from now are the ones growing up on this music and
>loving it now.

The people growing up listening to this shit don't even like songs that were popular a year ago. The entire concept of appreciating music is gone from the under 25 generation who looks at music like a cheap commodity and background decoration.

>>How is this when music is basically free now
>
>If I put you in a library and tell you to find the great books
>without any kind of card catalog( electronic or card) how will
>you find your way? I literally spend hours looking for music
>why because I'm a digger and as an artist I know I ain't the
>only guy out their that is on point but getting no play.
>

easy...u ask the librarian...word of electronic mouth is the new search engine...doesn't make it easy to find...but it's not rocket science either...if you care enough to look...eventually u find it...there are just so many more options now



>>The thing is the people who will be determining classics 20
>>years from now are the ones growing up on this music and
>>loving it now.
>
>The people growing up listening to this shit don't even like
>songs that were popular a year ago. The entire concept of
>appreciating music is gone from the under 25 generation who
>looks at music like a cheap commodity and background
>decoration.
>


this is mostly true...but u don't need widespread appeal or true fandom for classics to exist...whether the classics are widely known or not doesn't really matter...in general it's typically the experts and the taste-makers that agree over time to herald the classics...popular or otherwise

>
>The people growing up listening to this shit don't even like
>songs that were popular a year ago. The entire concept of
>appreciating music is gone from the under 25 generation who
>looks at music like a cheap commodity and background
>decoration.
>

Yes this is true about the majority of popular music out there

I Grew Up On Booty Shake...We Did Not Know No Betta Thangs...

https://Soundcloud.com/DJNategeezie/Saturday-Night