>My response wasn't about Iggy as much as it was about you and
>how you brought up your stake and claim into hip-hop and
>brought out the old manifest destiny to claim it for the
>world.
:
Manifest destiny? Really?



>There is a long history of the Grammys preferencing white
>artist awards for doing black music while shunning black folks
>from rap to r&b to hip-hop. Award shows, just like the music
>industry is highly radicalized and anti-black to boot. Yes,
>even in the rap category.
:
I agree 100%. And thus the Grammy's etc have zero standing among serious music lovers.



>Listen if people only love your "moms famous sauce" only
>because a non-italian face is on the package and they think
>that non-italian face makes it taste better, even when it's a
>shitty sauce.... It's fair game for 20 y/0 italians girls to
>say, that is fucked up. That's what happens here! Elvis
>mimics little Richards and black blues singers and the world
>eats it up, not because Elvis is better or the originator but
>because he's white!
:
A. She wasn't just mad at racist Grammy's ppl, she was mad at actual artists for partaking in the art. Saying they stole it from her.

B. The idea that people can't possibly like Macklemore aside from his whiteness is extremely bias and cynical. I don't really follow him but I thought the fact that he made a couple catchy pop friendly rap songs that actually dealt with the cultural pressures of consumerism was a damn commendable artistic feat. Getting ppl to feel cool about going to goodwill etc. To say he got love ONLY cuz he's a white face is ridiculous.



>But my reference to Italians was more about your multiculti
>fantasy where rap is not black culture. It makes you feel
>good to believe that but it's not true. He helps you jump from
>participant to originator... it's self serving.
:
When the in the entire hell did I ever claim to be the originator of hip-hop? That's the most obscenely strawman shit I've heard yet. I'm a participant. She's a participant. Neither of us are oroginators. That simple.


>The whole
>point is that although my black ass family has been making
>spaghetti for over 70 years, yet it never becomes a black
>thing or a multi-cultural thing... it remains Italian.
:
Its italian, but its also part of the culture of many non-italians. The same way noodles were Asian until someone from Italy put their own twist on it and made something new, and then everyone in Italy tasted it and did it themselves, it expanded from one guy to an entire country and region in southrrn europe, then to everyone in America who discovered it the same way people in various parts of Italy did. From someone else, from a nearby restaurant or from their folks. Having an intimate personal understanding of what its like to be Italian is not what pasta is, even though pasta can enrich the experience of being Italian.

But...

>I can't
>say... hey this sauce isn't italian because I've been
>participating in it. That would be silly. That's what you're
>doing with hip hop.
:
You would almost have a point if hip-hop was exclusively black in its roots. Its pretty much agreed that blues and jazz were. Its assumed that spaghetti is exclusively Italian in its roots (though that is untrue), but hip-hop? Hip-hop was a blend from the jump.

But let's pretend all the original breakers, graf writers, people to rhyme in rhythmic patterns over music, etc were black. Let's pretend the various Latinos and Greeks and others who were there at the start didn't exist. That still puts the origination of hip hop squarely on THOSE people. I can't say to Rajon Rondo or Magic Johnson "I created basketball, you're a guest". I did no such fucking thing. They are as basketball as anyone can be.


>>She's pretty explicit in saying hip-hop should be racially
>>exclusive. Which brings me to...
>>
>>Second, people are conflating the elements of hip-hop with
>the
>>entirety of the black experience. So speaking english poetry
>>in rhythmical patterns is claiming ownership of the black
>>experience.
>
>No, doing it as a response to lived black life and collective
>black experience is. Founding a whole genre of music on that
>lived black collective experience is black culture. That's
>what separates hip-hop from Edgar Allan Poe.
:
But these white rappers aren't doing it as a response to lived black life. Just as early non-black graf writers weren't doing it as a response to lived black life. Just as many black rappers and DJs from the beginning were motivated by basic things that motivated their other nonblack friends who came by to the parties. Having fun, listening to music, messing with mics and records and staying out of trouble.

I've been told that personally by ppl who were there.



>>Scratching records is claiming ownership of the
>>black experience.
>
>No, you don't get scratching as you know it without the black
>experience.
:
That's ridiculous on so many levels. But my point is that engaging in the activity does not mean you are then saying "I own the black experience". But give me a break.


>You don't get breaking, you don't get any of it.
:
You are stretching so badly.

It would take the same leap of logic to claim you don't get basketball or airplanes without the white experience and thus all white people originated flight and hoops.



>My brother, my brother... you may want to live in your
>multiculti world where everything black belongs to everyone
>but black people but that whole idea is born out of white
>relationship with owner.
:
No, the idea that culture is something that migrates and morphs and spreads and is only named and codified in order to point things out comes from anthropology. My point is none of us can claim special credits for things someone else in our ethnic inner circle did. If I discovered soccer or baroque music the same way you did, our claim to its existence is identically zero.


>At best your overestimating your stake as a participant by
>about 400 years with a sort of white "one drop rule." At worst
>your stealing.
>
>Just try to have hip-hop without black people and see what you
>get.
:
Another BS statement. Who the fuck is saying there should be hip hop without black people? And who is saying that hip hop would have been what it is without the specific black people who were crucial to it? Nobody. I'm only saying that hip hop would have been pretty much the same without Azaelia Banks or Macklemore.