Head of the ACLU makes an excellent point, it's the only feasible practical way to acknowledge that a crime was committed.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/09/opinion/pardon-bush-and-those-who-tortured.html?_r=0


BEFORE President George W. Bush left office, a group of conservatives lobbied the White House to grant pardons to the officials who had planned and authorized the United States torture program. My organization, the American Civil Liberties Union, found the proposal repugnant. Along with eight other human rights groups, we sent a letter to Mr. Bush arguing that granting pardons would undermine the rule of law and prevent Americans from learning what had been done in their names.

But with the impending release of the report from the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, I have come to think that President Obama should issue pardons, after all — because it may be the only way to establish, once and for all, that torture is illegal.

That officials at the highest levels of government authorized and ordered torture is not in dispute. Mr. Bush issued a secret order authorizing the C.I.A. to build secret prisons overseas. The C.I.A. requested authority to torture prisoners in those “black sites.” The National Security Council approved the request. And the Justice Department drafted memos providing the brutal program with a veneer of legality.

My organization and others have spent 13 years arguing for accountability for these crimes. We have called for the appointment of a special prosecutor or the establishment of a truth and reconciliation commission, or both. But those calls have gone unheeded. And now, many of those responsible for torture can’t be prosecuted because the statute of limitations has run out.

To his credit, Mr. Obama disavowed torture immediately after he took office, and his Justice Department withdrew the memorandums that had provided the foundation for the torture program. In a speech last year at the National Defense University, Mr. Obama said that “we compromised our basic values — by using torture to interrogate our enemies, and detaining individuals in a way that ran counter to the rule of law.”

But neither he nor the Justice Department has shown any appetite for holding anyone accountable. When the department did conduct an investigation, it appeared not to have interviewed any of the prisoners who were tortured. And it repeatedly abused the “state secrets” privilege to derail cases brought by prisoners — including Americans who were tortured as “enemy combatants.”

What is the difference between this — essentially granting tacit pardons for torture — and formally pardoning those who authorized torture? In both cases, those who tortured avoid accountability.

But with the tacit pardons, the president leaves open the very real possibility that officials will resurrect the torture policies in the future. Indeed, many former C.I.A. and other government officials continue to insist that waterboarding and other forms of torture were lawful. Were our military to capture a senior leader of the Islamic State who was believed to have valuable information, some members of Congress would no doubt demand that our interrogators use precisely the barbaric and illegal methods that the Obama administration has disavowed.

The Obama administration could still take measures to hold accountable the officials who authorized torture. Some of the statutes of limitations have run out, but not all of them have. And the release of the Senate’s report provides a blueprint for criminal investigations, even if that’s not what the intelligence committee set out to do.

But let’s face it: Mr. Obama is not inclined to pursue prosecutions — no matter how great the outrage, at home or abroad, over the disclosures — because of the political fallout. He should therefore take ownership of this decision. He should acknowledge that the country’s most senior officials authorized conduct that violated fundamental laws, and compromised our standing in the world as well as our security. If the choice is between a tacit pardon and a formal one, a formal one is better. An explicit pardon would lay down a marker, signaling to those considering torture in the future that they could be prosecuted.

Mr. Obama could pardon George J. Tenet for authorizing torture at the C.I.A.’s black sites overseas, Donald H. Rumsfeld for authorizing the use of torture at the Guantánamo Bay prison, David S. Addington, John C. Yoo andJay S. Bybee for crafting the legal cover for torture, and George W. Bush andDick Cheney for overseeing it all.

While the idea of a pre-emptive pardon may seem novel, there is precedent. Presidents Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson pardoned Confederate soldiers as a step toward unity and reconstruction after the Civil War. Gerald R. Ford pardoned Richard M. Nixon for the crimes of Watergate. Jimmy Carter pardoned Vietnam War draft resisters.

The spectacle of the president’s granting pardons to torturers still makes my stomach turn. But doing so may be the only way to ensure that the American government never tortures again. Pardons would make clear that crimes were committed; that the individuals who authorized and committed torture were indeed criminals; and that future architects and perpetrators of torture should beware. Prosecutions would be preferable, but pardons may be the only viable and lasting way to close the Pandora’s box of torture once and for all.

Anthony D. Romero is executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union.

***

BTW, I am going to be judging folks on their ability to grasp the nuance's of Romero's argument that the only way way you can hold Bush & Co. accountable for this crimes is by pardoning them for their crimes.

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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

ill make it but them hating hoe ass mods will undoubtedly delete it so...just letting you know not trying to steal thunder here but this is important


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

like...literally.

thanks.


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

That's a novel way to approach it too. I would love it if Obama did this but I don't know if he's got the stones.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i.e., the intel on Bin Laden's courier was attributed to the GITMO operation

to go after anybody elses


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

moral authority to go after anyone else.



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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

trying to persecute others for it.

What is the alternative?


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

substantially superior to non-acknowledgment.

>What is the alternative?

Abandon international criminal law entirely.

The reason Obama may pardon GWB is the same reason Nelson Mandela promoted National reconciliation instead of looking to imprison the architects of Apartheid.

The same reason Nouri al-Maliki should have been more inclusive of Suuni leadership, when he governed Iraq.

That is the viability of a nation depends on it. BHO seeking criminal charges against GWB would be disastrous for the country and could very well legitimately lead to civil war.

As a head of state BHO is the one person who has the power to make the call that the good of the country is better served by acknowledging their crimes and pardoning them for it.

I don't think the country of the international community is better served by rejecting international criminal law.


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

>I don't think the country of the international community is
>better served by rejecting international criminal law.

>
>>I don't think the country or the international community is
>>better served by the US rejecting international criminal law.
>


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

you're probably right. i'm pretty cynical about international crim law.

the argument

Did pardoning Nixon stop the government from spying of people?

Did pardoning Confederates stop Slavery/Jim Crow/Racism?

I don't think it will be the deterrant that is hoped for

and LOL@statute of limitations on torture...the fok?

I think those in power will just see it as a pass to keep torturing, IMO

They're not using that one as an example of a deterrent. When Ford pardoned Nixon, Nixon hadn't been charged with anything. Given time, there most likely would have been.

But Ford gave him the preemptive pardon. He pardoned him for anything connecting Nixon to Watergate that may have come up.

I let it marinate for a minute

these MFers are really gonna claim it wasn't 'torture', etc...

nah, FUCK THEM

they should be prosecuted

at the end of the day, they are doing shit like this in my name

and I'm not cool with that, at all

they wanna act like this report is some threat to our safety

how about fucking torturing people being a threat to our safety

at some point, these idiots that want to talk around issues and use semantics to skate on laws

NAH, FUCK that

they're criminals

and if we stand for an ideal or morality

THEY MUST BE PROSECUTED.

that would be EPIC!

All presidents do dirt. It comes with the job. Some gets out eventually, some remains a secret.
You don't want to be the Pres thst prosecutes one of your own (I just realized that sounded just like the police situation we have now lol)

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama's drone policy becomes an issue in the future

REPs are already cysing it

along the lines of

is capturing and torturing a combatant in an attempt to extract information from them

better or worse

than just killing them with drone strikes

those muthafuckas commited war crimes and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Fuck all this other shit.

Obama needs to do his job and stop protecting murderers. Then again, he's one too, so...