Way, way back when I first started posting here in 99-00, I mostly hung around the activist board. Usually lurking, but occasionally being a brat to people who actually wanted to *do* things in the world. One time, I made some kind of off-handed nonsensical remark about a boycott of Nike because of their labor practices, and some poster (who obviously thought I was an asshole but sucked it up and talked to me anyhow) talked me through point-by-point about how different types of protests were meant to work, what they were meant to work for, what their limitations were, etc. I forgot everything he said and didn't actually internalize the broader lesson of making a small effort not to be a dick about politics for another twenty years, but now that I'm old and tired, I'm incredibly grateful to that person for taking five minutes to explain where he was coming from and meet me where I was at, even if I didn't deserve it.

>If this were Trump, this war would be bad. America's
>unconditional support of this war would be bad. The protests
>would be appropriate.

This feels correct to me but I still feel really uncomfortable saying it, much less gaming it out. Not the least because if you say it, some bad faith actor is going to accuse you of rooting for that.

But we can see an ongoing narrative emerging where some Arab Americans are saying explicitly that they're done with Biden on this issue - and the response they get is "good luck with Trump then."

Which, yeah, good luck with Trump, indeed. But:

a)for a group that spends so much time wringing its hands on the wrong way to build coalitions, "fuck off and let the fascists have you" doesn't really seem like skilled politicking.

b)If liberals had their back in 2017 by occupying airports (acts of genuine heroism, incidentally - good job, libs) during the Muslim ban, then maybe the only situation that they can imagine liberals acting with that kind of solidarity again is to do it against Trump. Seems bananas to put in writing, but it doesn't seem wrong.

I don't know. They can speak for themselves on this. But on a broader level it's not hard to see liberals losing the grip on this and trying to shut down conversation because their usual moves aren't applicable. Ordinarily, you criticize Biden for not doing something and you're met with "well, the President isn't a wizard who can just do whatever he wants" except that when it comes to supporting and/or persecuting a war, he kind of can. And is, as he's explicitly bypassed congress on providing arms to Israel. And even as they wring their hands about the complexity and nuance of the issue - a ceasefire doesn't need to *solve* the conflict. It just needs to stop killing innocent civilians by the thousands. So the last thing they'll hit you with is that your position isn't popular - except that ceasefire is an incredibly popular position right now.

So what's left? Maybe they'll try to argue that the US doesn't have the ability to influence Israeli actions, which is obviously laughable. But even if we grant that, then it's easy to just shrug and say "fine, maybe not. but we can be on the side of right, call for a ceasefire, and stop sending them out weapons. and if we can't influence their actions then they don't need our help."

Right now, pointing to Trump isn't going to do the trick if Biden continually refuses to do something which is all three of:

1)actionable
2)moral
3)popular

Making this about the election seems kind of crass, but that's where every political discussion (to our collective detriment) heads on this cursed forum. But I've been here for twenty five years and I like this place so I guess we're gonna keep arguing.