TRAILER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d1zpt6k5OI

yeah this isn't going to see a 2nd season.

not thinking this is it but you never know.

.

V.

M:AOS took it's time but it's coming on strong at the end and Arrow has been a hit.

...specially when i tore thru a whole season and a half of Arrow in less than a month and fucking loved every minute of it.
but if it's got Whedon's fingerprints on it, it's always worth sticking around for. even if he's only there in a ghostly exec prod capacity. plus i'm seen Jeff Bell's name popping up a lot lately and that's a good sign (Mutant Enemy alumni). and in hindsight, it looks like they did have a plan seeing as its all interwoven with the films anyways, but it just took its time getting there (and thereby becoming "interesting").

like sumone sed in the official thread tho, i wish J. August had somethin better to do than glare and walk in an awkward manner.

V.

>like sumone sed in the official thread tho, i wish J. August
>had somethin better to do than glare and walk in an awkward
>manner.

But I've realized recently, that a majority of my issues with every episode is the direction. If they took some of the budget and stopped wasting it on bad CGI of the plane in flight and instead hired some good television directors and maybe a stunt coordinator with a better appreciation of stage combat, I think I'd be more willing to over look its flaws.

...i hope it'll be good cause it has potential to really be awesome, BUT...i gotta see the first 2 eps before i make any judgements...

...what they plan to do with the frame work doesn't sound great, but focusing on Gotham before batman and focusing on Gordon and HINTING at things in the bat-world is pretty awesome

but this doesnt look good. so it'll probably run 4 seasons.

McKenzie seems to come off pretty good too.

McKenzie doesn't strike me at all here and for them to sort of give you the early looks into all batman's rogues is just weird. The majority of these folks are nothing without having someone like Batman to go against.

I just don't know.

I was hoping it'd be some weird gothic cop show with traces of Batman influence here and there.

Seems instead like they're just gonna hammer us over the head with Baby Arkham shit. Especially if that leaked script review is legit.

..."Before Every Thing You Wish This Show Was Really About. GOTHAM!"

>..."Before Every Thing You Wish This Show Was Really About.
>GOTHAM!"

I don't want to see a bunch of kid Bruce Wayne scenes.

I ain't even think we'd see Bruce too much. I thought it'd be cops vs. mobsters and creepy henchmen. A couple recognizable names. A few Easter eggs here and there.

Promo make it look like some Little Archie shit.

your expectations are what i would want. on top of the disappointing premise teased by this trailer, the kid seems super annoying.

>Promo make it look like some Little Archie shit.

hahaha little Archie

>
SHAAADE! LMAO

Yet Arrow shits all over SHIELD for real.

But, I don't know no superheroes?! The main comic universe characters as kids? I think it would be cool to see the evolution of Batman, Catwoman and Poison Ivy, but how long does FOX have to get to the beginnings of these characters?

and McKenzie don't inspire me to want to see this at all. Dude is such a vapid cypher of blankness it's not even funny. He was the weakest link on SOUTHLAND and every other show he's done.

But, who knows? This could be a hit for FOX. They green-lit a few dramas this time around. This could pop like SLEEPY HOLLOW...or end up dragging and limping to its death like ALMOST HUMAN.

But, Donal Logue is in this and Jada is inspired casting as the main villain? I'm curious...

"We will follow Bruce Wayne right up until the point where he gets interesting."

WTF?

It SHOULD be a good show. Watching Jim Gordon fight crime and corruption as Gotham declines but following young Bruce Wayne makes little sense and even Reilly's quote seems to recognize that.

could be brilliant, whereas this?

ugh.

This Muppet Babies b.s. just looks dumb.

sound die already

problem is it doesn't look half good, either.

I don't know HOW they got this shit greenlit.

Not a fan of Mckenzie but I do like Donal and Jada being involved with this but the timing just comes off like let's milk this franchise some more, when we don't need to...lol.

And Arrow is still killing S.H.I.E.L.D...haha

Every genre goes through it.

- A genre (superhero, horror, etc.) is deemed dead and studios passes on projects from that genre.
- Finally, a quality movie/show is greenlit and does well.
- The genre is upgraded from "box office poison" and a couple more shows/films are made.
- Those shows/movies do well, the genre is deemed "HOT" and then studios rush to greenlight every movie/show they can get their hands on. Most of which are rushed and not good.
- The oversaturation of products of questionable/inconsistent quality hurts the box office/ratings, movies start disappointing. Execs deems the genre dying.
- Execs move on to the next "Hot" genre and go back to refusing to make the old one saying "nobody wants to see those."

Superhero films are at the peak right now; everyone wants a piece.

_____________________________________________________
"You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". "Musashi Miyamoto

Both Arrow and SHIELD started slow and got better, and have their fanbases.

For shows about a B-list DC character and D-list Marvel characters.

Batman is the most popular of the comic book characters (easily at least in the top tier with Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine).

The early Gotham story has never been told before.

It's got recognizable characters.

People will watch this.

Me and a coworker have gotten a number of people in our office who don't know anything about comic books into Arrow (Hell, I barely know anything about comics.)
The show started well, lagged in the middle of season one, but ended strong. Then season two picked it up a notch.

I tapped out of SHIELD by midseason. I hear that it's getting stronger but they did such a poor job with the characters in the beginning that I have no interest in coming back (and neither do most people, it seems as it's lost half of its audience and, after a little post-Cap bump, it's losing them again.)

Gotham could work but I think it's going to be VERY hard to juggle the fall of Gotham with origin stories of villains and then the early days of orphaned Bruce Wayne (which really should be nothing more than a cameo.)

>I don't know HOW they got this shit greenlit.


and your black ass will be parked RIGHT in front of the TV watching it every week. Don't front LMAO

and it parallels the stories in the comics...from what i can tell...mostly.

don't know if they can get six seasons out of it though.

i can't imagine grown ass people watching some half-baked fan fiction bullshit like this. like, what are you getting out of it?

shit looked like a CollegeHumor parody.

*another* god damn retelling of the Batman origin? but this time with 4th-rate writing and a cast of disinterested b-listers. fuck me.

I'm a lot more excited for this than I was a month ago. Damn you, incessant advertising.

Everything I've seen especially of the "villains" make it seem like its going to be horrible but I'm open to being pleasantly surprised.

it covers up the mediocrity.

i actually liked it being about GOTHAM and it's underworld vs a few good cops

But it's got 2 more episodes to hook me

lol

But off the top I'm not really feeling this one.

>But off the top I'm not really feeling this one.


honestly, it's okay. not outstanding...

but, i'm strictly tuning in JUST to see Jada chew the scenery and camp it up (she's one of the FEW actors on the show that seems to get it; Donal Logue (Bullock), Robin Lord Taylor (Penquin) do too...Ben McKenzie? Lord jesus WHY do folk keep giving his ass acting jobs? He really can't act at all....)

but overall, I'm not siked about it. But SLEEPY HOLLOW on the other hand? THEY WENT OFF last night....I'm here for SH for real!

He really sounded like CB when he put the Cowl on.

No bueno

Batman Year One

This show seems like it's gonna be a dud, but as long as Jada, Penguin, and Jimmy the Cabby keep it up, I'll watch this dumb shit.

Down to him holding the umbrella over her in an early scene.

So, who have we got so far: The Penguin, Catwoman, Falcone, did I miss anybody? I missed the first 15 minutes. Was the lady crouched on the gate at the end supposed to be Huntress?

And shouldn't Gordon have a daughter to set up Batgirl?

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>Down to him holding the umbrella over her in an early scene.
>
>So, who have we got so far: The Penguin, Catwoman, Falcone,
>did I miss anybody? Edward igma and Poison Ivy as a baby. And wasn't Barbara Gordon Batgirl? That confused me a little.

I missed the first 15 minutes. Was the
>lady crouched on the gate at the end supposed to be Huntress? No that was still Selena Kyle i beleive.
>
>And shouldn't Gordon have a daughter to set up Batgirl? They named his wife Barbara... don't know what they doing ther
I liked it overall, but again it is a pilot lol. I suspect the show gets stronger as it goes along... but already I see a LOT of corruption in this city...

So I am now cool.

>Down to him holding the umbrella over her in an early scene.
>
>So, who have we got so far: The Penguin, Catwoman, Falcone,
>did I miss anybody? I missed the first 15 minutes. Was the
>lady crouched on the gate at the end supposed to be Huntress?
>
>And shouldn't Gordon have a daughter to set up Batgirl?
>

There was a Joker teaser in there, and even possibly a future version of The Spectre...and we of course can't forget montoya and Bullock ....Gordon's first wife was named Barbara in the books and they named their kids (boy and girl) after themselves....i can't remember if the wife dies in childbirth to Babs or not...

btw i LOVED Alfred....

So that guy might be the joker or it might be the guy from episode 7 or 3.

Which sounds like overkill. Gimme 3 strong candidates throughout the season and stop hammering me over the head.

I think he worked in GCPD forensics or something. His name was Nigma. Also: maybe Poison Ivy, although that might be a red herring. The young daughter of the thug that got shot by Bullock was named Ivy and she was playing with plants. But in the comics, Poison Ivy's real name is actually Pam Isley, so make of it what you will.

The first thing he said was "Guess What?" Nice touch...And possibly the joker as the stand up comic that was performing while Cobblepot was getting whooped by fish.

Not as cheesy as Arrow, so that's a plus.

some flat characters and cliched dialogue, some really bad dialogue, and some sleazy donal logue (couldn't resist). gordon's conversations with almost everyone were pretty terrible. "can we skip that thing tonight? yes, i can swim. i'm jim gordon, what's your name?" and why would barbara just show up at the station like that?

the weird camera in front of gordon during the chase was random. the guitar riffs were...not good, and that whole "let's roust some muggers scene" was weird.

fish mooney was great, as was rawls aka falcone. logue's bullock was good once you got past the early scenes. i hope mackenzie won't continue to play gordon so woodenly. he started to come around in that last scene with the penguin though, so we'll see.

Not going to be appointment television, but I'll give it a shot.

Im really diggin this show. Alot more violent than I expected. Gives me hope for some gritty storytelling. Jada channeled her inner cuba gooding and overacted a little but im all in. The Penguin is the most interesting to me at the moment.

As I was watching, it occurred to me that this might be the most violent portrayal of the Wayne murders ever, in any medium thus far. Only surprising because I wasn't expecting that from a primetime network tv show.

As a matter of fact, it was probably the best portrayal of how that experience would cause a man to want to rain hellfire on criminals.

/

>As a matter of fact, it was probably the best portrayal of
>how that experience would cause a man to want to rain hellfire
>on criminals.
I was thinking that too.

The violence and look didn't mesh with the hammy acting and dialogue. Not sure if choosing the creator of The Mentalist was the best call. That show was kind of either/or in terms of silly or serious. Will see if Heller and Co. can learn how to straddle the line. I also thought the editing didn't help the acting. A lot of times it seemed like there was too much lead on the shots of McKenzie reacting which made it seem worse.

It's also going to be interesting to see how they keep Bruce involved in the story. And I'd hope they tone down the fan service a bit and build up bigger cases but the fan service keeps people happy.

The best thing it has going for it right now is the connection to Batman. Not sure how long they can skate by on that.

I never would have guessed that the CW would rule when it comes to superhero shows but I think their formula is the only one that works so far.

>The violence and look didn't mesh with the hammy acting and
>dialogue. Not sure if choosing the creator of The Mentalist
>was the best call. That show was kind of either/or in terms of
>silly or serious. Will see if Heller and Co. can learn how to
>straddle the line. I also thought the editing didn't help the
>acting. A lot of times it seemed like there was too much lead
>on the shots of McKenzie reacting which made it seem worse.

Well, the creator of The Mentalist isn't going anywhere since *HE* wrote the pilot, produced it through Warner Bros TV, which he has a deal with because of The Mentalist, and FOX wanted to work with him *AND* Warner Bros TV. Honestly, The Mentalist started out as a very smart and intriguing show but just got pretty predictable and dull once the seasons progressed....Heller can write (ROME was the shit when it was on). BUT, I feel like GOTHAM will be better served if Heller steps back and lets other writers on the show write the eps....You make get a better variety of scripts/episodes, etc. So we'll see...

>
>It's also going to be interesting to see how they keep Bruce
>involved in the story. And I'd hope they tone down the fan
>service a bit and build up bigger cases but the fan service
>keeps people happy.

Well, that's why they had the fan service in there. Those are the folks that will become the hardcore, weekly viewing audience. I hope the cases do improve/get bigger, etc. and you have the characters interact re: those cases...

>
>The best thing it has going for it right now is the connection
>to Batman. Not sure how long they can skate by on that.

well, they won't be able to maintain that. Truthfully, the best thing going for it is the fact that even though the show is steeped in Batman mythology, the show is called GOTHAM. The fact that we get to see how Gotham came to be and, ultimately, how bad the city got and all the criminals there either fighting to control the city, or just cause complete chaos and mayhem, etc. maybe what ultimately keeps it on the air once the Batman connection wears thin, etc.

At least I hope that happens...

>
>I never would have guessed that the CW would rule when it
>comes to superhero shows but I think their formula is the only
>one that works so far.


Agreed. Cause, I don't have ANY high hopes for NBC's Constantine. NBC is still struggling to launch a truly solid genre show that's somewhere between the predictable procedural-ness that is GRIMM and the very highbrow, yet violently brilliant and esoteric Hannibal. NBC is clearly trying to find something that is in the middle of these existing shows...

and I don't think CONSTANTINE will be that show. I *want* it to win..but something tells me it won't....or it's going to struggle for however many seasons it's on the air...

>well, they won't be able to maintain that. Truthfully, the
>best thing going for it is the fact that even though the show
>is steeped in Batman mythology, the show is called GOTHAM. The
>fact that we get to see how Gotham came to be and, ultimately,
>how bad the city got and all the criminals there either
>fighting to control the city, or just cause complete chaos and
>mayhem, etc. maybe what ultimately keeps it on the air once
>the Batman connection wears thin, etc.
>
>At least I hope that happens...


That's actually be biggest beef with the show. Gotham already appears to be a shitty place. I was hoping that we'd see Gotham, the great city, and then the Wayne's are killed, and then we see the fall of Gotham. Also, it would have been nice to establish Bruce Wayne pre-tragedy for at least an episode.

I think having the parents killed at the very beginning of the show was a mistake. (A mistake made even worse with the corny Catwoman aspect of it.)

It definitely strikes me as a show that could easily right the ship very quickly and the pilot will be listed as one of the forgettable episodes. I'm just wary of whether a show that likely has too many people involved on the exec level will get there.

>>well, they won't be able to maintain that. Truthfully, the
>>best thing going for it is the fact that even though the
>show
>>is steeped in Batman mythology, the show is called GOTHAM.
>The
>>fact that we get to see how Gotham came to be and,
>ultimately,
>>how bad the city got and all the criminals there either
>>fighting to control the city, or just cause complete chaos
>and
>>mayhem, etc. maybe what ultimately keeps it on the air once
>>the Batman connection wears thin, etc.
>>
>>At least I hope that happens...
>
>
>That's actually be biggest beef with the show. Gotham already
>appears to be a shitty place. I was hoping that we'd see
>Gotham, the great city, and then the Wayne's are killed, and
>then we see the fall of Gotham. Also, it would have been nice
>to establish Bruce Wayne pre-tragedy for at least an episode.

I agree....it would have been nice to see him interact with his parents and Alfred before the parents died...

>
>I think having the parents killed at the very beginning of the
>show was a mistake. (A mistake made even worse with the corny
>Catwoman aspect of it.)

yea, the fact that they have Catwoman seeing Bruce's parents murdered was such a WTF moment for me...

SMH

>It definitely strikes me as a show that could easily right the
>ship very quickly and the pilot will be listed as one of the
>forgettable episodes. I'm just wary of whether a show that
>likely has too many people involved on the exec level will get
>there.

Who knows? Ideally, you hope so. And I am hoping it does get there...I just don't know if it will happen THIS season....

Half campy histrionics and scenery chewing, half serious-minded drama (despite the cheesy dialogue beginning for a different tone). All atonal, all head-scratchingly mashed together.

And few things more embarrassing than "oh look, THAT GUY HAS AN UMBRELLA I BET HES THE PENGUIN LETS CALL HIM PENGUIN OUT LOUD! oh look, THERES A GIRL WITH PLANTS THATS POISON IVY!" The corniest shit imaginable. Which would be fine, if they show embraced how unflinchingly corny/campy the premise is, instead of trying to mix two worlds (gritty dark drama, goofy campy self-referential hamfest) that have no business mixing.

It would be 1000000000x better if they went full camp, unleashed their actors, and actually decided to make it fun, with all the scenery chewing one can throw on screen and all the references to the DC Muppet Babies they want to cram in each episode. Ditch trying to make this show serious. It will never ever ever work. Unless they ditch the corny intros of other characters, they ditch the dialogue, they ditch the over-the-top acting, and they ditch the general premise. Then it could work as serious television.

I was twisting in my seat watching this. I won't torment myself anymore, so someone inbox me if the show decides what it wants to be, because I'd love to watch a good comic book TV show. This is just... a hundred miles from good.

YOU personally seem to love this kinda shit:

>It would be 1000000000x better if they went full camp,
>unleashed their actors, and actually decided to make it fun,

I personally would be miserable if every superhero property had the same campy, eye-winky tone because I wouldn't have shit to watch.

Pull back on the ham-fisted foreshadowing, straighten out some of the cheesy dialog and I think the tone works perfectly fine.

The central concept of the show is, at its core, cheesy. They view the foreshadowing as fan service, and they got the actors they got because the actors saw the opportunity to chew scenery the way comic book villains have traditionally done in 99% of movies/TV depictions of comics (including the grittier DC fare). The cheesy dialogue also seems wildly unlikely to vanish overnight.

I really like gritty crime drama (I like a wide variety of things, really), but I can't imagine how this will possibly get to the level of a gritty crime drama, because they would have to punt on several aspects that I feel are hardwired into the show's DNA. Which is why I say to go full camp-- not because I need another comic show depicted that way (like you, I'd like to see something with a new and bold vision that this simply isn't going to grasp), but because it would solve the atonality that I feel can't be solved by tilting the scale in the other direction. I'd rather watch something that knows what it is than watch something that is such a garbled mess.

It also doesn't help that I simply don't trust the creative team. With different show runners, maybe I'd have an iota of faith that they could iron out this brutal pilot. Instead, I feel like the same thing will continue: half grit, half camp-- half serious, half cheese.

I'm just hoping the solution isn't 'go full camp'. 'Gotham Central' made it work without being too cheesy. Different medium but I'm hoping they can eventually approximate that.

Not really up on Bruno Heller's body of work, so I dunno how unrealistic an expectation that is.

It also had a MUCH better premise.

Too bad they didn't adapt that into a show instead.

The Fall of Gotham and the collapse of the Gotham police force doesn't have to be cheesy. The battle between Falcone and Fish Mooney could be handled seriously.

A child dealing (unsuccessfully) with the brutal death of his parents doesn't need to be cheesy.

The rise of mentally unwell people into supervillains doesn't require cheesiness.

I also think (or maybe hope) that the inclusion of the villains might mean that a good chunk of this show could be how the Rogue's Gallery comes together. Already you have Penguin and Riddler, underappreciated by their bosses.

The way they handled it? Pure queso. From frame one. But I think they could find a way to salvage it, especially if when they get more into the actions of the characters. It's no sure thing but I don't think giving up and just making it cheesy is the only solution.

>The way they handled it? Pure queso. From frame one. But I
>think they could find a way to salvage it, especially if when
>they get more into the actions of the characters. It's no sure
>thing but I don't think giving up and just making it cheesy is
>the only solution.

... led me to believe that they would remove the cheese and try to focus in on something more grounded in reality.

And I'm still not convinced you can do anything prequel-related with the Rogue's Gallery that isn't going to feel like "hey, we know that guy!" But you're right, it may just be that the delivery was so corny that it's blinded my ability to see a non-corny world. I half expected the Joker to come out, and someone to say to him, "Hey, you seem like a real JOKER!" then look directly at the camera.

I can imagine the note was: "Will people know who this Oswald Cobblepot guy is? We better make sure someone calls him the Penguin or else why would anyone care about him."

And that might be the biggest hurdle for the show. A lot of people are going to have their eye on this and I'm sure they'll all give notes on it. Hopefully they took care of most of those on the nose intros in the pilot and can move on.

>Half campy histrionics and scenery chewing, half
>serious-minded drama (despite the cheesy dialogue beginning
>for a different tone). All atonal, all head-scratchingly
>mashed together.

NO. I can't agree with this. The pilot IS a mess but full on camp? Not going to happen. FOX wouldn't play that shit in ANY context....

>And few things more embarrassing than "oh look, THAT GUY HAS
>AN UMBRELLA I BET HES THE PENGUIN LETS CALL HIM PENGUIN OUT
>LOUD! oh look, THERES A GIRL WITH PLANTS THATS POISON IVY!"
>The corniest shit imaginable. Which would be fine, if they
>show embraced how unflinchingly corny/campy the premise is,
>instead of trying to mix two worlds (gritty dark drama, goofy
>campy self-referential hamfest) that have no business mixing.

they *CAN* mix both worlds (but would clearly have to ramp up the grit). It's a hard mix to balance week to week but it can be done.

BUT, writers who GET those sensibilities would work for the show. Because Bruno Heller can *NOT* do camp (and I've been on the fence with him as a writer since he put out The Mentalist, i.e. how can someone who created HBO's ROME put out dreck like The Mentalist, which only was BEST when they were on the hunt for Red John and even THAT storyline got old real quick)

>
>It would be 1000000000x better if they went full camp,
>unleashed their actors, and actually decided to make it fun,
>with all the scenery chewing one can throw on screen and all
>the references to the DC Muppet Babies they want to cram in
>each episode. Ditch trying to make this show serious. It will
>never ever ever work. Unless they ditch the corny intros of
>other characters, they ditch the dialogue, they ditch the
>over-the-top acting, and they ditch the general premise. Then
>it could work as serious television.

no, you just like campy shit. And the reality is that not everything deserves to be camp or should get the camp brushstrokes. Nope sorry....

And Jada was the only one who was over the top and I don't even MIND her being over the top since Fish Mooney is character creation strictly for the show. Nothing wrong with a villain who's chewing the scenery....

Cause lord knows Ben McKenzie giving us MORE than the constipated and pained facial expressions he ALWAYS gives (and doesn't deviate from) in his roles will get old as fuck real quick.

>I was twisting in my seat watching this. I won't torment
>myself anymore, so someone inbox me if the show decides what
>it wants to be, because I'd love to watch a good comic book TV
>show. This is just... a hundred miles from good.

well...you got ARROW and CONSTANTINE coming on NBC late next month so you have options...

but don't front like you won't be watching it Frank. Because if I see you commenting in this post for another other episode of GOTHAM, I'm clowning you LMAO

Nothing was more annoying during the days of Heroes than the one guy chiming in weekly about how shitty it is. (I guess The Walking Dead posts may be like that now-- haven't been in one since I bailed.) I just wanted to give my two cents on the pilot and bounce.

If someone can convince me they've found their focus and it's no longer an incredible mess, I'll give it another shot. But, like, it'd have to be more than "Hey, this episode was good!" I need a hot streak.

I always love giving comic hero shit a chance, so I'm more likely to come back to this than, say, The Walking Dead... but I'm out until further notice. Despite how much I hated the pilot, I don't hate myself enough to keep watching, nor do I hate the community of people here enough to subject them to week after week of endless bitching. Plenty of folks like TV shows I find dreadful, and plenty of people hate my beloved Bachelor in Paradise. It's all gravy.

.

Just ludicrous.
**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/blackpeopleonlocalnews

Comics related show on TV. ARROW get caught up, guys. Gotham was ok (my girl loved it, perhaps its strictly for noobs) it was cool, tho...

Still some problems but it definitely moved in the right direction. I do have to say though that I find some of the violence to be off putting,especially for a show at 8pm.

Still, I thought this was a solid episode (save for the kind of lame end of the episode) and my hopes are much higher than they were after the pilot.

i like the aspect of Alfred trying to figure out what to do with bruce, cause if we wanna be honest, his parents death is the begining of the psycho that IS Batman...playing with that a little is a smart move, showing his first steps in becoming this other person...

The pilot was bad. Obviously expectations were lowered because of it but I thought this was a solid enough episode and step in the right direction.

Like Law & Order Gotham but I guess my issues with it is the liberties its takes with the "Batman" story. I'd probably like it much better without seeing young Bruce Wayne.

I mean, there's not much you can do in terms of the Batman universe since everyone is ten years away from really becoming who they are.

I just thought the pilot was lousy but this at least moved into guilty pleasure territory. The biggest issue is that the lead characters are all people who we know will survive. Unless they pull a Hannibal and kill off people we expect to see in the future, they really need to introduce some new characters so there will be some actual peril in the episodes.

ignore

Though they were so on the nose with Selina. She's nimble, she scratches and she doesn't like dogs. And of course, she goes by "Cat." Almost as if she's some kind of feline-esque young woman.

...i wish they'd scale the "see what we did there!!!?!?!?!?!?" factor by a hunnid....i really want this show to be more about Gordon, the GCPD, and Gotham itself, with little bits of Bat history sprinkled in...i personally like the Bruce parts, but they way they're doing them, i can see it growing old fast...i would rather see bruce or any of the rogues every few eps or so and only in small doses

For instance, the Penguin storyline could be interesting. But the trailer for the season makes it seem like they are throwing pretty much everyone in. It's kind of like, "You know this show is supposed to last for years, right? You can slow down and save some villains for future seasons."

But I've kind of come to terms with the approach, as flawed as it is. They're clearly not making the show that I think most people hoped for so I'm just hoping they do a better job with their current path (which I felt they did from the pilot to the second ep.)

At least with the "name" villains. There's enough minor villains they can bring in for their villain of the week arcs (like they did with Dollmaker.)

If we wind up seeing a muscular Latino dude on the high school wrestling team who promises to become the "bane" of someone's existence by episode 5, we're going to be in trouble.

At least have a little follow through. Did anyone question where the kids were being sent or who they were being sent to or why the people were kidnapping the kids? What happened to the kids who were kidnapped before? Might have been nice to have the cops learn about The Dollmaker, which I don't remember happening at the end.

Odd to mention a villain and just have it seem like a procedural episode.

...but not the one it needs right now

>...but not the one it needs right now


lol

If one of the creators of the show ever says this, everyone should boycott this immediately.

i think the tonal mishmash doesn't bug me as much as it bugs others, i'm all for mixing up as many genres & emotions as possible. makes for a well-rounded universe.

yes, the violence is quite jarring, then again Bruce's origin story has always been one of the most violent and tragic, and has been depicted over and over. whats a few dozen more shootings and stabbings? Gotham's a cesspool, i'm glad they're taking it there.

is no one else really intrigued at how they're playing with young Bruce? we rarely get to see the long-term transformation of him as a young'n. right now he's "testing himself", which is both alarming and interesting. cos Batman himself is just a cunt-hair removed from becoming PART of the Rogues Gallery instead of fighting them. they could really turn Bruce into a Patrick Bateman type guy before reeling him back in and putting him on the path of the Bat. lotsa interesting potential there if u ask me, certainly in terms of exploring the psychology of Bats.

Fish Mooney sounds like the kinda name found in the animated series, like one of them old-timey gangsta names. Jada's killin it, btw. in a non-hammy way too.

hokay, here's the one thing i think shouldn't have to be bitched about. the 'on-the-nose' stuff. like Selina referring to herself as "Cat". and being feline-like. hasn't every single iteration of Catwoman been, i dunno, overly-heavy with the felinity? (i made that word up). we've already sussed who she would be from the pilot, now we've name-checked her, what's the big surprise and kerfuffle? is it just the execution? plus i think sumone mentioned that it just felt like network additions, so hopefully going forward it wont be an issue.

only thing that stood out as a big neg was specifically the dialogue b/w Babs and Jim. whenever its a scene with them two the conversation gets...kinda boring and predictable.

but OVERALL...im diggin it. and i think it's only fair to give it at least, i dunno, 10eps before bailing? it's got potential.

V.

This was not at all what I was expecting. Bad on many levels. Not sure why DC green lit Bruno Heller on this.

LMAO, that would've made a great character on the 1966 show.

...i didn't like the name, but loved the absurd concept and execution....

Aren't working through my cable, and when they finally did, I was behind.

Something tells me that it's a good thing I didn't get involved in the show, I'd be defending it no matter what.

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2014/09/29/scrutable

It seems like it's settling into a dark, campier feel but it is still tonally kind of all over the place. I liked the Balloonman and would have liked to see more of an investigation into that but there are so many other storylines that the procedural element ends up not having much time.

I really can't stand Ben McKenzie although, to be fair, none of the acting is good. Others are good for what the show is but I think Ben sticks out like a sore thumb. Catwoman could have been cut out of the whole show.

Ratings-wise, it's getting demolished. 2.5 in the demo but only 6 million viewers total, half of what Dancing with the Stars and The Voice are getting and Big Bang Theory still dominating with 15 million. I'd be stunned if it doesn't get a second season but it's already shed a quarter of its audience and I can't imagine this episode is going to stop the bleeding.

Do like Encyclopedia Bruce and have him help Jim solve hard cases. Fish Mooney's name is close enough to Bugs Meany's anyway....

Especially taking it outside of the Batman mythology. I do think this story would be better without checking in on young Bruce Wayne all the time.

even though they only wrote for 16.

I'm tapping out but part of me is glad I got to witness that nonsense of the guy running down the street with the ATM, Bruce gets an exposition board, Gordon has never had lunch, and Catwoman's appearance.

my roommate was watching this last night and I caught that part...comical.

Read a pretty interesting take on this...

http://comicbook.com/2014/10/22/crazy-gotham-theory-is-the-penguin-really-the-joker-/

i'm VERY impressed with the actor playing young Bruce Wayne. The kid is nailing the internal workings of Bruce's turmoil. Alfred is great as well. The actor playing the Penguin exceptionally entertaining. Jim & his partner, and the riddler are all doing really good work here too. the show has steadily gotten consistently better and better with each episode....i'm all in.

Actually impressed by the level of violence for starters; Penguin's come-up is really interesting; not too much wrong with it at all for me. Thumbs up!

and accept it as the esleworld take it is, it's really good

while im watching this. its a frustrating show for a bat-stan. my pops however LOVES this world of batman and he finds it hilarious how much it frustrates me.

As mentioned above, highlights are the Bruce Wayne kid, and of course The penguin character. The first episode was really bad, but it has gotten better ever since. Not great, but definitely doesn't deserve the hatchet job I gave it weeks ago.

That Harvey Dent "snap" scene was the funniest comedy of the Fall. And the Riddler is my favorite character as he immediately makes every scene he's in a piece of shit with a single smile. Kid's got talent.

i've decided i want the actor playing young bruce (David Mazouz) to play Batman as he ages too...he's earned it. the kid is just nailing it.

i say as he ages, lets just follow him growing up evolving into the Batman...

Gets his ass beat on a constant basis about every other episode.

...always funny to watch.... Alfred was crushing it this ep....i could do without ANY more "Cat" scenes though...her character is writtien really badly with the foreshadowing

...than anymore scenes of Harvey Dent. Shit, I'd almost watch those two over Gordon when he's not with Bullock.

i could do without ANY more "Cat" scenes though...her
>character is writtien really badly with the foreshadowing



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

...i'm guessing that was part of that actress ending up with the role, and she does a great job with what she has, but alot of it is corny to me...

V.

That was an interesting take on what drives the Scarecrow.

...i'm not really down with "that" appearance next week...i hope it's a bait and switch

>hope it's a bait and switch

Disappointing if not.

I wish they'd just kill Jada though

They had built themselves up strong with the Electrocutioner eps, but it's slid back into dopesville since then. That Scarecrow shit was corny and don't get me started on Jada (who I love but is on a totally different show).

She's great. But her performance sticks out on this show because she's operating in a completely different tone from everyone else (except maybe Oswald).

Fish seems to be widely hated and I don't get it.

Jada is great. But she's acting like she's on a different show. It's not her fault because the tone of this show is all over the place.

She elevates the show IMO. She's the only one acting like she wants to even be on the show. She's having fun and crackling with personality.

>She elevates the show IMO. She's the only one acting like she
>wants to even be on the show. She's having fun and crackling
>with personality.

Yeah. She commands the screen in every scene she's in (even that laughable ending shot of her and dude charging at each other on the boat).

everybody seems to really be having fun with what they're doing EXCEPT McKenzie...or maybe he is and he's such a one note actor we can't tell

and them showing Bruce not doing anything but knowing he becomes Batman....eventually, reminds me of "Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie".


"When are they getting to the fireworks factory?"

Everything else is so all over the place, but he, Alfred and even Selina to me are more enjoyable than anything anyone else is doing story wise.

instead of the broad strokes we usually get. and surprisingly engaging to watch. im diggin this incarnation of Alfred too.

V.

>instead of the broad strokes we usually get. and surprisingly
>engaging to watch. im diggin this incarnation of Alfred too.

And spending this much time with it really has built the bond between Alfred and Bruce to me in all other mediums. I think because Bruce is so defenseless as a child, it adds such a weight to how much Alfred raised him.

i didn't like him until that ep where he made bruce go back and knuckle up w/ that bully.

..where the people we see now get WAY more dangerous, and i'm in no rush to get THERE...

...that said, i enjoy Bruce's story the most, and i wish the was reversed to show more of him and Alfred and less of Gordon...i wouldn't mind more of a focus on Bullock..but the way they're writing him and the way McKenzie is playing him is REALLY boring

...and i don't care at all about Cobblepot here...

just a thought, cos how Jada's been playin it is very supervillainesque. i could see Selina falling in with Fish and learning to up her game to Catwoman levels, even down to movement and speech.

V.

I could definitely see that.

>RE: considering how cat-like Fish is...could she be Selina's 'mentor'?
>just a thought, cos how Jada's been playin it is very
>supervillainesque. i could see Selina falling in with Fish and
>learning to up her game to Catwoman levels, even down to
>movement and speech.
>
>V.

and THAT theory is probably the one way to get me to at least understand Jada's 'finger-acting' thing she's been doing this whole show...the 'finger-over-acting' thing drives me crazy (not in a good way)...i havent been a fan of the Fish portrayal so far (though, admittedly she did have a good episode last week though, in her first episode in 'hell' when she initially took out the head dude...

but YOUR theory, should it be true, would probably allow me to leave a little slack in the line for the Fish portrayal so far...

and your "Cat-Fish' theory does make a lot of sense on a variety of levels too, so we'll see...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXrLJEN0jAQ.

V.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXrLJEN0jAQ.
>
>V.

you are TOTALLY right ON!!

and while Eartha's Cat was absolutely Purrrrrfect for that fun over-the-top campy super colorful version of Batman, i do think for this modern incarnation of grey Gotham, Jada could maybe still pay homage to Eartha's portrayal if thats what she was going for, but maybe bring it down....just a notch...to keep some of it a little more 'grounded' & human in a way ...you can still be over the top when it calls for it, but i personally think it could work a little more effectively if you 'pick your spots'...maybe don't have it always 'turned to 11' ya know?


�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v
http://www.freemyheart.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Meshell-Ndegeocello/26602832142?ref=mf

RIP David Williams:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

(maybe some spoilers?)

this show is for KIDS!!
i mean that in a GOOD way.
most of the KID actors on this show are friggin' KILLING it in my opinion!

i've already said (further up in this thread) how much i think the kid playing young Bruce ( David Mazouz ) is just NAILING it EVERY way. So much so, if DC is smart, they'll sign this dude up NOW...like RIGHT NOW for a lifelong contract to play Batman for life. This kids portrayal is both overt in ways, and subtle in ways...i think he's perfect for this role...i'm totally invested in seeing the continuously evolving relationship between he & Alfred...and i'm not talking about just 'the big I am Batman' payoff we all know would come at the end, i'm actually JUST as much interested in the slow and steady growth and stages that we would get to see UP to that point....the journey here is much more intriguing to me....


and isnt that what this show is about?

i think thats why i'm enjoying it so damn much. ...see i'm one of those cats who tends to dig 'the journey' as much, if not more, than the 'final payoff'. To get slightly off topic for a sec, but in a related way....musically speaking i collect a lot of unreleased stuff of my favorite musical artists...and while sure, i have some 'polished & finished' live concerts in the mix...the stuff i love to collect MOST are the demos & rehearsals....and i find i listen to that Demo & Rehearsal stuff more than ANYthing in my collection, cuz i genuinely enjoy the journey...

and this show Gotham is all about that...
and these Kids on this show are really great and exciting to watch...

the Joker kid tonight ( Cameron Monaghan ) almost scared the ish outta me! that dude's 'script/flip into Joker' scene was creepy as hell! even though we all KNEW DAMN WELL the kid was the Joker, his portrayal right up to 'the flip' had me almost believing that "well, cmon Gordon, maybe he DIDN't kill his MOM man." And i was thinking "ahh maybe he'll 'turn Joker' when he finds out who actually did kill his ma...maybe when his psychic dad confesses to being his dad and confesses to killing his ma, maybe THEN he'll turn Joker on us...". but nahh...that kids acting had me believing him IN SPITE of me already knowing who he'd eventually become...thats some skills....

the Poison Ivy girl ( Clare Foley ) hasnt had too much to do, but i think she's done great with what little screen time she has had...odd & weird...a bit 'out there'...i like that approach here....subdued in a quiet eerie floaty quirky kinda way....makes her unpredictable and that seems to make others a little nervous around her ... even Cat...

Cat...Cat is...interesting....she most certainly looks the part, that girls face is very cat like, which i think is cool. Character-wise, she (similar to Jada's Fish, also mentioned separately above) isnt so subtle...not that subtlety is a requirement of every role, because sometimes it isn't. That said, some nuance can be a good thing though. I find that i do want to route for Cat to be on the 'good' side, even though i know how it'll likely turn out. She is growing on me for sure. And i do like her character's ability to quickly assess the situations she finds herself in & the adults she finds herself around...she does/shows that ability well with her facial expressions...so yeah, i'm cool with Camren Bicondova's Cat too...

the 'older youngsters' are also awesome...the actors playing Pinguin and the Riddler? (Robin Lord Taylor & Cory Michael Smith) cmon, they are fantastic...they STEAL pretty much every scene either of them are in....and that one time where they were the only two in the scene with each other, small as it was, it was pretty damn cool & fun & filled with evil villain potential bubbling and building up in the pressure cooker.

i was sad to see Liza go (Makenzie Leigh) thought she had potential....and yes, if i'm being honest, she was very easy on the eyes.... and easy on the ears too...(something bout the way she talked...i dont know what it was...) ...but i digress...:)

dont think im bashing the adults either...cuz the cast as a whole is holding it down if you ask me, Casting on this show is really solid. As the adults go, i love this incarnation of Alfred, guy playing him is great at showing his love, sometimes tough love, for Master Bruce, you feel that ish straight through the screen. And i totally believe & dig Sean Pertwee's Alfred as a total asskicking badass here. hell, I want to know more about HIS backstory! In THIS Gotham world, he essentially is the 'creator' (or at least 'cultivator') of Batman...

and guy playing Harvey (Donal Logue) Gordons partner is hilarious. he's just great. his timing and delivery is loose feels free and natural, a perfect compliment to Gordon's straight-forward tightness (also appropriately played ).

the many many storylines they've opened up....both major and very minor, are all prettymuch well executed and brimming with potential....and i wouldnt be mad at them for continuing to explore them all...Gordons Ex girlfriends Ex lover i thought she was well played by Victoria Cartagena. the girl playing Riddlers would-be love interest (Chelsea Spack)....there's something going on behind those glasses ...so yeah more of her please. i'm a HUGE Firefly fan so i was glad to see Morena Baccarin join the cast of adults too:)

so yeah, Gotham is holding it down on TV. I'm not even a DC guy, im a Marvel guy through & through....the only DC books i ever dug were Sandman, Millers Batman, and some of the old Green Arrow Green Lantern stuff and i also liked the Batman animated series in the 90s...but Marvels books (& now Movies) have always held my interest much more than DC...but on the small screen, this Gotham show here has me invested. Damn good job. love the world they are building here...

special props to the Cinematography too...this show LOOKs marvelous, and it DESERVES to win some awards for that alone...






�
have you listened to
her stuff?
v
http://www.freemyheart.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Meshell-Ndegeocello/26602832142?ref=mf

RIP David Williams:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Williams_(guitarist)

all i read was the blurb before the ep aired n thought it was just gonna soft-intro the Graysons to establish the future connection with Dick and Bruce. but dude...that kid KILLED.IT.
ur totally spot on, the kids are makin this somethin special. it fuels the viewer desire to want to see more of this shit, and to see it happen incrementally over many seasons/years.
he even had the laugh down pat. and the vocal tone when he finally revealed himself was...eery and cool. his face? gleefully psychotic. everything the Joker should be.

Bruce's interaction with the board was pulled off well.

V.

their casting dept has done a great job

Barbara was useless, but Thompkins is actively annoying.

If they desperately wanted to introduce that ditzy, freewheeling, bamboozled-by-a-psychic girlfriend for Gordon, then don't ask me to believe her as an accomplished woman of science.

And don't ask me to believe that the city's Medical Examiner doesn't know how to compartmentalize her love life and be a frigging professional at work.

And why isn't she backed up with cases, instead of prancing around everywhere with Jim?

Sheesh.

Have his non-Barbara girlfriend be some journalist he met on a case or some shit. Call her Kathy Kane if you're determined to drop an Easter Egg. Then you can have her be as manic and pixie-like as you please.

...and the fact she was the chief medical staff at Arkham? she's GOT to be a lil nutty. i remember Leslie being a close friend and confidant of Bruce in the animated series (she was an old lady at the time that Bruce was already Bats). but the show is kinda giving us a hint there's more to her. she's got the crazy glint in her eye but it's just dialed back and socially acceptable. whereas sumone like Nygma is obviously a lil maladjusted, Leslie's got that bubbling beneath the surface. kinda.

i actually like her more than Babs tbh. she's a better fit for Jim and his world.

V.

what did Babs end up doing with her "houseguests"?? i missed it i think

and yes, they're writing her badly, but this show hasn't shown it knows how to write strong women not named Fish or Ellis

>what did Babs end up doing with her "houseguests"?? i missed
>it i think

The usual stuff you do with young squatters.

i gotta rewatch the first episode, cause i forgot why the Waynes left Bruce in Alfred's care

twas a genuine wtf moment in an all-round good ep.

V.

Still think I'd rather a show without it, but I'm not mad at all that it's there. That kid's really good.

...can we?
we should make it a thing.

V.

> i gotta rewatch the first episode, cause i forgot why the
>Waynes left Bruce in Alfred's care

...i'm a comics head, and....eh...play on...

this show has been consistently very well done, and has actually gotten better and better since the first episode...
and that finale was a great way to wrap up season 1 and set up the 2nd. Nice job on this one DC....i'm a Marvel guy for the most part, but ultimately i'm a 'just tell a good story in a creative way' guy, REGARDLESS of what logo is on the show....and Gotham is a damn good, really entertaining and well done show any way you slice it.

esp the Nygma parts...the Barbra reveal was nice and by the end of the ep i was trippin OUT...

so are we to assume she's making a case for being future Harley Quinn? or another psychotic female in the rogues gallery? finale was a little all over the place, but i've enjoyed the heck outta this show. bring on s2.

V.

She's too old to be Harley, though. Harley's probably younger than Bruce.

I think they recognized that people hated her, wrote her into something interesting and are now trying to figure out how to bring her back closer to canon.