This has become a post containing book spoilers, so we've decided to make this a general book spoilers post rather than zap it or go through and edit out all spoilers (hell, we want to watch the show too!).

If you want to discuss the upcoming season, then go ahead, but be aware that people are giving away spoilers about the books, so therefore this is NOT the official season 2 post. We'll create that one as we get closer to the premiere date of April 1.



*** Original Post Starts Here: ***

Season starts on April 1st, and while I know that's still 2 months away the trailers started rolling out yesterday. So I thought... why the hell not start the thread.

I just finished A Feast for Crows a few weeks ago but I don't exactly have the time for A Dance wit Dragons yet. But I'm hoping to get there soon.

That being said, I think A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords (which will be seasons 2 and 3) are the best of the books, so this season should be a monster. One thing I am a bit concerned about is length. Books 2 and 3 are much longer than book one, but are still gonna get the same 10 episode treatment, so a lot is likely to be cut out. I hope to the Old Gods that they don't cut what's happening on the wall.

And so with all that being said: Here's the trailers that have been released so far.


Trailer 1: A Shadow
http://youtu.be/rOzXsqoJhtE

Battle of the B________r is gonna be fucking glorious.

I could almost see them skipping it like they did with Tyrion's battle in season 1...

I could also see them skipping some other "big" scenes for the same reason.

*minor spoilers and such*
http://grrm.livejournal.com/237806.html

Dope.

Nice

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

even ___ out certain titles is spoiler-ish to a degree. I'll refrain from here on, or else we're going to have another Wire S4 debacle.

stupid with it. We're going to have to start another thread when the season starts.

I hadn't read the books at that point, so I'm not sure.

I just want to say that I'm really looking forward to seeing Brienne kicking butts.

didn't show her very long, but she's skinnier and younger than she was written.

"Game of thrones: season two (for book readers)"

n/m

_________________________________________________________________________
Baby, I'm your carpenter, please let me lay your tile

This isn't even about the book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkOD5AzAkE

yesyesyes!

behind The Sopranos and True Blood, respectively. with people now reading the books, and the monstrous Blu-Ray sales about to come, I expect viewership to grow even more in S2. True Blood has been on decline for awhile and Boardwalk Empire's ratings have dipped ever since the S1 premiere.

anyway, that's good news for the future of the show. I've heard that S3 will start shooting in June, with the adaptation of "A Storm of Swords" taking place over S3 and S4.

Smart to spread that out over a split season, hopefully they can diverge a little from the A Feast for Crows story-line when that comes up.

This trailer was posted already but lost in the calamity

http://youtu.be/UV3RflsNxak

That song, Seven Devils, is so perfect.

And yesterday the Simpsons intro was their homage to GoT. Its kinda cool.

http://io9.com/5890410/watch-the-simpsons-game-of-thrones-intro?tag=gameofthrones

This blu-ray only feature called Complete Guide to Westeros is pretty cool, some of the stuff in the History and Lores section are very informative even for the book readers. It touches on topics like the The Night's Watch, Valyria, Aegon's arrival and Robert's rebellion. They're narrated by various characters and it's good for getting different perspectives of certain events (eg. Viserys' and Robert's recount on the Sack of King's Landing would obviously be very different).

He can't kill of Jon.
He bet not kil off TyTy.

How do Arya, Sansa, Rickon and Bran get back in the mix?
And sup with Lady Caetlyn?

Iron Born and Dorn and the slaver cities? Not a fan of any of those story lines honestly. Dany was much more interesting when she had her Kal.

As much as I hate Cersei, her evilness needs more screen time.

So who sent the dude to kill Bran?
Why Marjorie sipping on Moon Tea?
What's the Spider's Angle?

one
k. orr

this is more related to the original book thread, but this misnamed one will be locked in a few weeks anyway...




SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ ALL THE BOOKS





- Jon is thought to be alive still, and Azor Ahai reborn. signs point to him being the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.

- honestly Tyrion was getting on my nerves throughout "Dance". he's a wanted man throughout all of Westeros and the Free Cities, yet he decides to go into a crowded whorehouse? just dumb. plus he wouldn't shut up when he should, but that's his admitted flaw.

- I guess Bran is gonna be on some omnipresent shit for now. connect all the scattered Starks and whatnot. Arya is still training; maybe she'll link back up with Jaqen H'ghar (although he's supposed to be posing as Pate in The Citadel)? Davos will be sailing to get Rickon and Osha from the island of Skagos. Sansa/Alayne will be betrothed to the Vale heir (and eventually reveal herself), although Littlefinger probably has another surprise/use for her. Stoneheart I don't really like at this point. hope she doesn't kill Jaime.

- Meereen became a drag, I agree. Dany's prophecies in the House of the Undying seem to hint that she'll win back the Dothraki (which she meets at the end of ADWD). As for the Ironborn, Euron seems interesting but you can't give him a POV. please no more Aeron. I liked Dorne BTW, even though Quentyn was a bit trivial.

- I think Cersei and Tyrion are going to kill it in S2, since it's mostly about King's Landing. the clips of Headey and Dinklage have been great so far.

- Joff sent the man to kill Bran. he heard Robert saying it'd be a mercy if Bran died and stole the knife out of the King's collection. hence, why it was so sloppily arranged.

- Margaery is fucking. her first husband was gay for her brother, her second was killed by her grandmother and her current man is a fat little boy. she's great though; love her character.

- The Spider is on Team Targaryen. he's been plotting with Illyrio since book one. his place on the council is to make sure the Lannisters ruin themselves, which Cersei accomplished quite nicely. her uncle Kevan, however, is much smarter and so Varys killed him. the real question is whether or not Aegon is who he says he is. was he really stolen away before The Mountain killed Rhaegar's family, or is he just a "mummer's dragon" who was thought up by Varys to rally Dorne and The Realm for the Targaryens?

The part about fuck boy joffre. Don't know if him or Robert is worse. Although stamp/kitten happy Tommen gets a few smh's.

Now I gotta look up AA. The asofai forum is mad slammed.

the old lady killed joffrey? where was this revealed?
______________________________

http://gltss.org

>the old lady killed joffrey? where was this revealed?

I forget the context in how they explained it, but if you remember Grandmother was portrayed as a smart matriarch type. She kept on fishing Sansa information on what kind of person King Joffy was (and Sansa was originally afraid to come clean but said fuck it). Later on Sansa was surprised how not only they didn't cancel the wedding but how happy they looked even though she told them what a gigantic motherfucker Joffey was.

Thats why, lol.

the red viper taking credit during his talk with tyrion where he offers his services in trial by battle with the mountain.

i don't think it has been confirmed. either work for me, but i could have sworn the red viper copped to it.

MOAR SPOILERS (ACOK and ASOS)



way back in ACOK, Dontos gives Sansa a hairnet with black jewels from Asshai. he says the jewels are magic, vengeance for her father, and her way home. in ASOS, Dontos insists she wears it to Joffrey's wedding. The Queen of Thorns comes up to Sansa that night and adjusts the hairnet...then Sansa later realizes a jewel is missing.

when Sansa and Littlefinger are sailing to the Vale, Sansa keeps trying to deduce who poisoned Joffrey. Littlefinger finally asks if someone straightened her hairnet that night.

remember that Littlefinger happily volunteered to ask Margaery's hand in marriage to Joffrey (again, back in ACOK). he met with the Tyrells by himself, and explains that the old Lady Olenna kept asking questions about Joffrey's nature. those suspicions were confirmed by Sansa in King's Landing. Olenna poisoned the little king herself, or gave the jewel to Margaery to slip in Joffrey's cup. either way, they were in cahoots with Littlefinger.

as a bonus, Tyrion was made to look the guilty party, and his death would have freed Sansa from her marriage vows so that she may be paired with someone else (of Littlefinger's choosing).

just another reason why Littlefinger might end up the GOAT of this shit. and why I love the Queen of Thorns ("I was hoping for Rains of Castamere. We haven't heard that in five minutes").

>this is more related to the original book thread, but this
>misnamed one will be locked in a few weeks anyway...
>
>
>
>
>SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ ALL THE BOOKS
>
>
>
>
>
>- Jon is thought to be alive still, and Azor Ahai reborn.
>signs point to him being the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar
>Targaryen.

Interesting...what leads you to say that? What signs, I mean.

>- honestly Tyrion was getting on my nerves throughout "Dance".
>he's a wanted man throughout all of Westeros and the Free
>Cities, yet he decides to go into a crowded whorehouse? just
>dumb. plus he wouldn't shut up when he should, but that's his
>admitted flaw.

Yeah, I was kinda okay with him dying in the water. Guess I'll trust George
has plans for him.

>- I guess Bran is gonna be on some omnipresent shit for now.
>connect all the scattered Starks and whatnot. Arya is still
>training; maybe she'll link back up with Jaqen H'ghar
>(although he's supposed to be posing as Pate in The Citadel)?
>Davos will be sailing to get Rickon and Osha from the island
>of Skagos. Sansa/Alayne will be betrothed to the Vale heir
>(and eventually reveal herself), although Littlefinger
>probably has another surprise/use for her. Stoneheart I don't
>really like at this point. hope she doesn't kill Jaime.
>
>- Meereen became a drag, I agree. Dany's prophecies in the
>House of the Undying seem to hint that she'll win back the
>Dothraki (which she meets at the end of ADWD). As for the
>Ironborn, Euron seems interesting but you can't give him a
>POV. please no more Aeron. I liked Dorne BTW, even though
>Quentyn was a bit trivial.
>
>- I think Cersei and Tyrion are going to kill it in S2, since
>it's mostly about King's Landing. the clips of Headey and
>Dinklage have been great so far.
>
>- Joff sent the man to kill Bran. he heard Robert saying it'd
>be a mercy if Bran died and stole the knife out of the King's
>collection. hence, why it was so sloppily arranged.
>
>- Margaery is fucking. her first husband was gay for her
>brother, her second was killed by her grandmother and her
>current man is a fat little boy. she's great though; love her
>character.

Yeah, exactly who is Margaey fuckin and how can I get some of that moon tea to give to my heauxs?

Wait-I thought Littlefinger poisoned Joff, not Grandma Tyrell.


>- The Spider is on Team Targaryen. he's been plotting with
>Illyrio since book one. his place on the council is to make
>sure the Lannisters ruin themselves, which Cersei accomplished
>quite nicely. her uncle Kevan, however, is much smarter and so
>Varys killed him. the real question is whether or not Aegon is
>who he says he is. was he really stolen away before The
>Mountain killed Rhaegar's family, or is he just a "mummer's
>dragon" who was thought up by Varys to rally Dorne and The
>Realm for the Targaryens?

The fuck was up with the evil orphan assassins at Varys's command??



http://twitter.com/collazo
http://www.reverbnation.com/livesociety

>Interesting...what leads you to say that? What signs, I
>mean.

- Melisandre proclaims to see Azor Ahai in her fires, thinking it's Stannis, but many of her visions include Jon
- Rhaegar believed his son Aegon was Azor Ahai, because the comet appeared during his birth...however, if Rhaegar is Jon's father (via Ned's sister), that could have account for it as well
- Jon's betrayal by the Night's Watch has a lot of pointed details: Bowen Marsh cries and Jon's wounds smoke when he's stabbed ("born of smoke and salt"), and the knight being mauled by Wun Wun has a star for his sigil ("red star")

>Wait-I thought Littlefinger poisoned Joff, not Grandma
>Tyrell.

Littlefinger orchestrated the entire plan, but he was not present at the wedding to do the deed. the poison was in the jewels of Sansa's hairnet (given to her by Littlefinger via Dontos). at the wedding, Lady Olenna "fixes" Sansa's hairnet, taking a jewel (which Sansa later notices as missing) and putting it in Joffrey's cup herself or giving it to Margaery to do so.

Littlefinger set everything up *way* back in A Clash of Kings, when he met with the Tyrells to earn their support in the war. he knew the Queen of Thorns was protective of her granddaughter, and wasn't having some boorish king husband abuse her. also, it explains why Margaery is so much sharper than Sansa -- she was taught the game of thrones all her life by her grandmother.

>>Interesting...what leads you to say that? What signs, I
>>mean.
>
>- Melisandre proclaims to see Azor Ahai in her fires, thinking
>it's Stannis, but many of her visions include Jon
>- Rhaegar believed his son Aegon was Azor Ahai, because the
>comet appeared during his birth...however, if Rhaegar is Jon's
>father (via Ned's sister), that could have account for it as
>well
>- Jon's betrayal by the Night's Watch has a lot of pointed
>details: Bowen Marsh cries and Jon's wounds smoke when he's
>stabbed ("born of smoke and salt"), and the knight being
>mauled by Wun Wun has a star for his sigil ("red star")
>


I don't necessarily buy this Jon as Azor Ahai theory. But I don't completely discount it. I will say though that Jon's wound "smoking" is very poor evidence. I went back and read some other Night's Watch chapters, and other people's wounds "smoke" as well. It's just the cold of the environment reacting with the heat of the blood and body.

>I don't necessarily buy this Jon as Azor Ahai theory. But I
>don't completely discount it. I will say though that Jon's
>wound "smoking" is very poor evidence. I went back and read
>some other Night's Watch chapters, and other people's wounds
>"smoke" as well. It's just the cold of the environment
>reacting with the heat of the blood and body.

and I didn't think much of it when reading it the first time, but to me the inclusion of Ser Patrek's corpse is of such specificity that it may go beyond coincidence.

introducing Patrek (who is named after a fan, but comes from a completely irrelevant house) and making pointed description of his sigil strikes me as more than world-building. having Wun Wun swing him above his head and against the wall -- like a bloody star -- seems also more than by accident. combined with the smoke and salt, and it's altogether a serious indictment.

then again, Martin fucks around with similar references to five other characters. I'm pretty sure that nobody believes or wants AA to be Stannis, Rhaegar (talk about an okie doke), Victarion or Aegon (who isn't even confirmed as a Targaryen). that leaves Dany and Jon. I'd say Jon has more going for his theory than Dragon Lady, and he's been on the front lines of the white walker battle since the start.

>>I don't necessarily buy this Jon as Azor Ahai theory. But I
>>don't completely discount it. I will say though that Jon's
>>wound "smoking" is very poor evidence. I went back and read
>>some other Night's Watch chapters, and other people's wounds
>>"smoke" as well. It's just the cold of the environment
>>reacting with the heat of the blood and body.
>
>and I didn't think much of it when reading it the first time,
>but to me the inclusion of Ser Patrek's corpse is of such
>specificity that it may go beyond coincidence.
>
>introducing Patrek (who is named after a fan, but comes from a
>completely irrelevant house) and making pointed description of
>his sigil strikes me as more than world-building. having Wun
>Wun swing him above his head and against the wall -- like a
>bloody star -- seems also more than by accident. combined with
>the smoke and salt, and it's altogether a serious indictment.
>
>then again, Martin fucks around with similar references to
>five other characters. I'm pretty sure that nobody believes or
>wants AA to be Stannis, Rhaegar (talk about an okie doke),
>Victarion or Aegon (who isn't even confirmed as a Targaryen).
>that leaves Dany and Jon. I'd say Jon has more going for his
>theory than Dragon Lady, and he's been on the front lines of
>the white walker battle since the start.


I obviously hadn't read enough into the theories because I completely missed the Ser Patrek stuff. That is very intriguing.

>>Interesting...what leads you to say that? What signs, I
>>mean.
>
>- Melisandre proclaims to see Azor Ahai in her fires, thinking
>it's Stannis, but many of her visions include Jon
>- Rhaegar believed his son Aegon was Azor Ahai, because the
>comet appeared during his birth...however, if Rhaegar is Jon's
>father (via Ned's sister), that could have account for it as
>well

It is an interesting theory. The Rhaegar/Lyanna stuff confuses me. So he was already married to Elia of Dorne and had 2 kids, then was smitted with Lyanna when he saw her at the tournament & gave her the rose. Then what--flipped his shit and kidnapped her?


>- Jon's betrayal by the Night's Watch has a lot of pointed
>details: Bowen Marsh cries and Jon's wounds smoke when he's
>stabbed ("born of smoke and salt"), and the knight being
>mauled by Wun Wun has a star for his sigil ("red star")

Man, I wish I paid more attention to those Azor Ahai prophecies. The only one I remember is the one about him killing his wife or something... which makes me think-- (and it's a stretch, I know) could Ygritte's death be another sign? Even though Jon's arrow wasn't the one that did it, it very well could have and she died under his command.


>>Wait-I thought Littlefinger poisoned Joff, not Grandma
>>Tyrell.
>
>Littlefinger orchestrated the entire plan, but he was not
>present at the wedding to do the deed. the poison was in the
>jewels of Sansa's hairnet (given to her by Littlefinger via
>Dontos). at the wedding, Lady Olenna "fixes" Sansa's hairnet,
>taking a jewel (which Sansa later notices as missing) and
>putting it in Joffrey's cup herself or giving it to Margaery
>to do so.

Ah yes!! I forgot about that shit!


>Littlefinger set everything up *way* back in A Clash of Kings,
>when he met with the Tyrells to earn their support in the war.
>he knew the Queen of Thorns was protective of her
>granddaughter, and wasn't having some boorish king husband
>abuse her. also, it explains why Margaery is so much sharper
>than Sansa -- she was taught the game of thrones all her life
>by her grandmother.

Straight gangsta.




http://twitter.com/collazo
http://www.reverbnation.com/livesociety

>It is an interesting theory. The Rhaegar/Lyanna stuff
>confuses me. So he was already married to Elia of Dorne and
>had 2 kids, then was smitted with Lyanna when he saw her at
>the tournament & gave her the rose. Then what--flipped his
>shit and kidnapped her?

I think the "kidnapped and raped" bit was a projection from Brandon Stark and Robbie Baratheon. Ned's memory of Lyanna at the Tower of Joy doesn't seem to reflect such an atrocity -- perhaps her and Rhaegar just ran away together.

I agree tho, their relationship is awkwardly conceived, but we don't know much about them aside from secondhand flashbacks. I do believe that Jon Snow is her son, she died in childbirth, and her last words of "promise me, Ned" were to raise him as his own (while never telling anyone of his conception).

>Man, I wish I paid more attention to those Azor Ahai
>prophecies. The only one I remember is the one about him
>killing his wife or something... which makes me think-- (and
>it's a stretch, I know) could Ygritte's death be another sign?
> Even though Jon's arrow wasn't the one that did it, it very
>well could have and she died under his command.

yep, people think Ygritte's death supports it as well.

>>It is an interesting theory. The Rhaegar/Lyanna stuff
>>confuses me. So he was already married to Elia of Dorne and
>>had 2 kids, then was smitted with Lyanna when he saw her at
>>the tournament & gave her the rose. Then what--flipped his
>>shit and kidnapped her?
>
>I think the "kidnapped and raped" bit was a projection from
>Brandon Stark and Robbie Baratheon. Ned's memory of Lyanna at
>the Tower of Joy doesn't seem to reflect such an atrocity --
>perhaps her and Rhaegar just ran away together.

Right... So Ned was doing Catelyn dirty but it was with Ashara, right? And that baby died in childbirth or something like that.


>I agree tho, their relationship is awkwardly conceived, but we
>don't know much about them aside from secondhand flashbacks. I
>do believe that Jon Snow is her son, she died in childbirth,
>and her last words of "promise me, Ned" were to raise him as
>his own (while never telling anyone of his conception).
>
>>Man, I wish I paid more attention to those Azor Ahai
>>prophecies. The only one I remember is the one about him
>>killing his wife or something... which makes me think-- (and
>>it's a stretch, I know) could Ygritte's death be another
>sign?
>> Even though Jon's arrow wasn't the one that did it, it very
>>well could have and she died under his command.
>
>yep, people think Ygritte's death supports it as well.


http://twitter.com/collazo
http://www.reverbnation.com/livesociety

>Right... So Ned was doing Catelyn dirty but it was with
>Ashara, right? And that baby died in childbirth or something
>like that.

well, I don't think Ned was necessarily having an affair at all. he was definitely into Ms. Dayne at some point, but who knows how far it went. of course, he couldn't really refute that, because he needed a cover story for Jon's existence (Robert wanted all Targaryen children dead). and Jon *was* family to Ned -- just not a bastard, but a nephew.

>>Right... So Ned was doing Catelyn dirty but it was with
>>Ashara, right? And that baby died in childbirth or
>something
>>like that.
>
>well, I don't think Ned was necessarily having an affair at
>all. he was definitely into Ms. Dayne at some point, but who
>knows how far it went. of course, he couldn't really refute
>that, because he needed a cover story for Jon's existence
>(Robert wanted all Targaryen children dead). and Jon *was*
>family to Ned -- just not a bastard, but a nephew.

Damn, this is wild... I hadn't thought of any of this.



http://twitter.com/collazo
http://www.reverbnation.com/livesociety

- Interesting choice that they have Robb taking Jamie with hm as a prisoner as he goes on his campaign of carnage. Makes sense though, because Robb is just about "off-screen" for the entirety of "CoK" and Jamie spends most of his time unseen in a dungeon. And they already had the Catelyn/Jamie confrontation in the last scene of Season 1. I've got nothing against them showing Robb doing his conquering.

- However, it occurred to me last night that by doing this, they've completely eliminated the non Cat/Lysa members of the Tully family from the show. And the Tully's weren't there last year either. I feel some kinda way about that, 'cause 1) Brynden the Black Fish is a bad-ass and 2) They continue to be pretty important in the books aheads as well, from what I understand.

Anyone have any other thoughts?

Give Robb some more screen time | I wonder what the over/under is for total lines for Rickon this season are.


You read this yet --> http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/03/30/game-of-thrones-showrunners-season-2/

they are going to put some of book 3 stuff in this season to get thing moving forward more.

I really wanted them to follow the trend of the books of starting with a new/unknown character and then killing them off. In season 1, they opened the same as in the book, but here they pushed that part to the middle.

Like I said, it's very nitpicky, but it would've been a nice touch.


Also, I thought they did a nice job with the wolves, considering their importance, and that if they're gonna continue to show Bran you can't avoid the wolves. But I thought they maybe should've established that Ghost is still with Jon.

- as for Riverrun, I think Benioff and Weiss are leery of establishing another location to the already sprawling map. the Tullys are non-critical at this point, and in the future, they can easily write around them. I do love The Blackfish though.

- I am waiting to see how they'll deal with the omission of the Reed children. from what I've read they were never cast or listed, so I imagine Osha is going to pick up the slack there.

- loved the fact they had Joffrey comment on his mother's possible incest. that was never quite touched upon in the books, and it seems very natural that Joffrey would question Cersei about it. expanding on the infanticide of Robert's bastards was also a smart move.

- lastly, Nicolas Coster Waldau was very coy about whether or not his attempted escape from Riverrun will be translated in the show, so here's hoping.

Thought Maester Cressen was way too obvious when putting in the poison, Melisandre was sitting right in front of him too lol, and in the book she took the first sip from the cup.

So Ser Cleos Frey was replaced with 'Alton Lannister', understandable since some viewers would've been confused like "aren't the Freys on the Starks' side?"

Hopefully we'll get to see Riverrun eventually, I'd love to see that castle on screen, it always seemed like a cool location surrounded by water.

And whoa!! I'm not sure if I like how this is all playing out.

SHOW SPOILERS





























They're really jumping the gun here. I thought it was weird that in the first episode they were already asking "What happens to Craster's sons?" And it's already being addressed here in the second episode! That isn't addressed in the books for a looong time. Where is that? A storm of swords? Maybe the writers are worried that people will have forgotten about Craster by the time they actually do return to him... But shit

And Stannis having sex with Melisandre? I don't really like that either. What made them throw that I in wonder? Just the HBO titty quota? I liked the book's dynamic between them... Stannis always seemed unsure of what to think of her... but her methods were working so he rolled with it. He never gave himself to her completely and would let her know when he thought she was going too far. All that kinda goes out the window now.

I did like the scene with Ghost... it actually did look better than Rob and Grey Wind.

And lol at Gendry being the only one who can tell Arya's a girl. She sprouting breasts already! They're obviously gonna have to out her earlier.

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>And Stannis having sex with Melisandre? I don't really like
>that either. What made them throw that I in wonder? Just the
>HBO titty quota? I liked the book's dynamic between them...
>Stannis always seemed unsure of what to think of her... but
>her methods were working so he rolled with it. He never gave
>himself to her completely and would let her know when he
>thought she was going too far. All that kinda goes out the
>window now.

Yeah, that seems really wack. It's pretty clear Stannis doesn't love or even really like his wife, but it's pretty clear he wouldn't fuck someone else. His main characteristics are being grim and determined; I'd say if anything, he's asexual. I think you pegged their dynamic correctly, and them sleeping together flies in the face of that.

>
>>SHOW SPOILERS
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>>And Stannis having sex with Melisandre? I don't really like
>>that either. What made them throw that I in wonder? Just the
>>HBO titty quota? I liked the book's dynamic between them...
>>Stannis always seemed unsure of what to think of her... but
>>her methods were working so he rolled with it. He never gave
>>himself to her completely and would let her know when he
>>thought she was going too far. All that kinda goes out the
>>window now.
>
>Yeah, that seems really wack. It's pretty clear Stannis
>doesn't love or even really like his wife, but it's pretty
>clear he wouldn't fuck someone else. His main characteristics
>are being grim and determined; I'd say if anything, he's
>asexual. I think you pegged their dynamic correctly, and them
>sleeping together flies in the face of that.

IF YOU HAVEN'T READ BOOK 2 DONT READ THIS!!!



They were fucking; the book is pretty clear on that. She had succubus tendencies and she used his lifeforce for her magic. She admitted as much when Davos helped her with the 'assassination' when the demon popped out of her pussy...she even said something like...'He's getting weak and I need new dick to get this magic off and popping' *wink* *wink* to Davos

Because that's not how I remember things.

I mighta just read the passage the first time after watching like a female vampire flick or something, lol.

Considering Stannis and Melisandre weren't POV characters through the first 4 books, it's no wonder that we can't be absolutely positive they were fucking. But just like there was plenty of suggestion that Renly smoked cock on the regular, Melisandre was pretty clearly exerting control over most of Stannis' court, and I believe one of the more zealous weirdos (Axel Florent?) gave us some hints that that control was rooted in sex.

And its not quite as you remembered it but more suggestive than I remembered it.
In the beginning Davos mentions that Melisandre has been sharing Stannis' bed chamber (pavilion is the word they use). And he wonders to himself if she's doing that to pray with him or if she has another way to soothe him to sleep.

And then when she gives birth to the shadow creature it says of Davos "He knew that shadow. As he knew the man who'd cast it"
So I was definitely lost in the obliqueness of that line the first time I read it. I guess the shadow was Stannis.' In which case, she probably made it with his seed...


Edit: And I just found this from ASoS

Davos: "You are the mother of darkness. I saw that under Storm's End, when you gave birth before my eyes."

Melisandre: "Is the brave Ser Onions so frightened of a passing shadow? Take heart, then. Shadows only live when given birth by light, and the king's fires burn so low I dare not draw any more to make another son. It might well kill him. With another man, though... a man whose flames still burn hot and high... if you truly wish to serve your king's cause, come to my chamber one night. I could give you pleasure such as you have never known, and with your life-fire I could make..."

Davos: "... a horror."



I concede.

>And then when she gives birth to the shadow creature it says
>of Davos "He knew that shadow. As he knew the man who'd cast
>it"
>So I was definitely lost in the obliqueness of that line the
>first time I read it. I guess the shadow was Stannis.' In
>which case, she probably made it with his seed...

Later on Stannis throws a line to Davos about how he's has nightmares of him personally killing Renly and he doesn't know why.

You guys are 100% right that Stannis as painted one would think he would normally NEVER sleep with Melisandre, but the book makes it seems that she's really under his spell, him AND his wife.

Stannis seemed not to be 100% into the religion when we meet him, (On some, the old God's aint serve me, I might as well give this one a try' when Davos asked). On the flip side his wife was a 110% convert right off the bat. I get the impression Stannis isn't the type to sneak out of bed to get some trim...id assume since their marriage was portrayed as cold it was with his wife's permission.

im gonna have to re-read

As BigReg pointed out, they were definitely fucking. Where do you think she got the shadow assassins from?

I don't mind the Craster thing, although the way the episode ended got me worried, not sure where they're going with that.

>I did like the scene with Ghost... it actually did look better
>than Rob and Grey Wind.

Yep, love the direwolves. I kept picturing them as the size of normal wolves when I was reading, but how they're portrayed here is definitely more accurate.

Only thing I had an issue with was Bronn being made the new commander of the City Watch. Introducing Jacelyn Bywater wouldn't have made it that confusing imo, or maybe it's a budget thing.

>Only thing I had an issue with was Bronn being made the new
>commander of the City Watch. Introducing Jacelyn Bywater
>wouldn't have made it that confusing imo, or maybe it's a
>budget thing.

i think they're trying to keep new characters to as much a minimum as possible

i'm wondering where aeron was. he's a somewhat important character considering the whole Kingsmoot

>i'm wondering where aeron was. he's a somewhat important
>character considering the whole Kingsmoot
>

Pretty sure Damphair is around, I spotted him in a scene with Theon in one of the behind the scenes videos.

really digging the writers giving her the lady macbeth torch. in other comments sections, people are saying the TV show is benefitting from her further development in books 3 and 4. HBO was able to get her on screen from the jump as the game player she is.

really twists the wedding feast with joffrey because i had read her as being ignorant to the whole plot to keep her reactions honest, but after the scene with renly and some reconsideration ... hmmm ...

>really digging the writers giving her the lady macbeth torch.
>in other comments sections, people are saying the TV show is
>benefitting from her further development in books 3 and 4. HBO
>was able to get her on screen from the jump as the game player
>she is.
>
>really twists the wedding feast with joffrey because i had
>read her as being ignorant to the whole plot to keep her
>reactions honest, but after the scene with renly and some
>reconsideration ... hmmm ...

it does set it up differently though
before it was oh boy wait til she finds out

now its OH BOY WAIT TIL HE FINDS OUT
her fam is a trip tough
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

(SPOILERS THROUGH A Feast For Crows)

I thought Margaery always knew about Renly, being that she was so close to Loras. either way, I was a big Margaery fan in the books (it had a different spin because she was younger tho*) -- the way she manipulated Tommen and Cersei was golden. her grandmother raised her well; even Jaime comments on her intuition.

*gotta age her up for TV purposes though. not just the sex, but it's hard to keep finding adolescent actors to play main parts. I read that the writers would've written out Arya, Bran and Sansa if they didn't get the right fits.

>*gotta age her up for TV purposes though. not just the sex,
>but it's hard to keep finding adolescent actors to play main
>parts. I read that the writers would've written out Arya, Bran
>and Sansa if they didn't get the right fits.

i can see writing bran out given where his story has gone over the course of the books. sansa and arya would both be quite difficult for different reasons -- sansa for where he story goes and arya from a fans' standpoint. i would be interested to know how they planned to get around those three characters.

>goes and arya from a fans' standpoint.
>

Ain't no damn way they would have had my sit fir Sansa
Sans Arya
Why?
Cause fuck Sansa
Ugh I can't stand that character
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I was worried about how that would turn out in the show, or if they'd skip it all together. I think it's being done very well though. I wonder if people who haven't read the books are picking up on what's happening... I wanna ask my friends, but I don't wanna draw their attention to it if they haven't noticed already. No one has asked about it, so it seems they might not be picking up on it.

without saying exactly what's going on imo

And Bran said something like "my dreams are real."
But since my friends haven't had anything to say about it, I wonder if they get it, or don't. It could go either way. Normally they ask me some clarifying questions, but none about this.

but did anyone else pick up that hodor looks directly at the camera/wolf with familiarity and says "hodor" as if he were saying "hi"? no anxiety, like he knew it was bran. granted the end fo the dream is pretty much a sledgehammer, but i thought the hodor part -- iiric -- was pretty sly.

i liked how maester tried to identify with bran since of wonder.

the dialog was the same, but the performance sold the sympathy that he has for bran.

it seems they might ignore arya/nymera stuff since it really isn't essential to her arc, other than confirming her moms death (book 3).

digging the arya arc so far, kind of glad they compressed it as much as they did, since SO much has to happen over the next 7 eps. all arya has to do is 1) be the ghost of harrenhal and 2) escape with gendry. they can stretch that for 7 eps, and make room for danny's stuff with the warlocks, and brans escape with the reeds

We haven't heard anything about them in casting...

but they are instrumental in explaining wargs/skin walking etc.

the producers said they were keeping some casting news under wraps, so fans dont sit around expecting too much.

we shall see though.

but they are the reason bran escapes, how the cross the wall (book 3), find the children of the forrest (book 5).

we shall see

>but they are instrumental in explaining wargs/skin walking
>etc.

that could fall to osha just as easily. the reeds real use was jojen and his green dreams acting as a gateway for bran to seek the three eyed crow.

and osha could just as easily tie that up as well having lived her life north of the wall. she would have the lore to give credence to the wargs/skin walking and know -- possibly -- of the caves where bran & company eventually end up.

Osha is well cast and can fill in for the Reeds quite easily. even Martin said she's a lot better character on the show than his books, and has tweaked his future writing to match that.

and to reiterate what I said above, casting kids is tough. especially with the advanced production schedule S2 was on. I think finding a believable Jojen would be rather difficult (boyish yet sage-like, without being corny), and the Reeds require a lot of exposition as well. loved them in the books, but I'm cool if they're out.

re: Rickon, he's an afterthought in the books as well, so I don't think it's necessary that they split up immediately after Winterfell. he can always get lost beyond the Wall in a future season (and looking *far* ahead, where he ends up might not be worth a full TV adaptation, depending on how it plays in The Winds of Winter).

the Tickler was amazingly cast. he looked like he could've been a prisoner, and his nonchalance during torture was spot on. also dug the brief appearance of Roose Bolton: another perfect match between page and screen.

love the idea of having Arya be Tywin's servant; two of the best characters together (although I don't buy the Lord Lannister ever carrying around something like Needle). Tywin's scene at Harrenhal, followed with Tyrion at King's Landing, was a great way to show the similarities between father and son.

Stannis is as boorish as the books, but that parlay with Renly was really lacking (Martin always writes fantastic meetings before battles). Renly munching on a peach with a sideways lean would've been better -- they seemingly tried to reference that, but staring at an apple in his tent was a poor imitation.

my dude Hot Pie is hilarious.

last complaint: they're kinda killing Littlefinger for me. his pimp scene with Ros I didn't like but tolerated. but getting dressed down by Cersei and Margaery is out of character for (arguably) the craftiest person in Westeros. and trying to hook up with Cat after she just became a widow was embarrassingly desperate.

anyway, it's not major yet but I'm not liking the road they've started down.

I felt bad that I couldn't tell her.

>Stannis is as boorish as the books, but that parlay with Renly
>was really lacking (Martin always writes fantastic meetings
>before battles). Renly munching on a peach with a sideways
>lean would've been better -- they seemingly tried to reference
>that, but staring at an apple in his tent was a poor
>imitation.

Yeah, they could have played it better. I agree that Renly telling him to go "eat a peach" would have been a much better touch. Especially since they don't seem averse to lifting dialogue straight from the books when it isn't necessary (as in, a few minutes later with Mel and Davos convo as he rows her to shore).

>last complaint: they're kinda killing Littlefinger for me. his
>pimp scene with Ros I didn't like but tolerated. but getting
>dressed down by Cersei and Margaery is out of character for
>(arguably) the craftiest person in Westeros. and trying to
>hook up with Cat after she just became a widow was
>embarrassingly desperate.

I think some of it is just that they need to give the character something to do. Littlefinger spends most of the book "off-screen" and they kind of need to keep him as a visual presence. It's sort of the same thing with Tywin, who spends most of "Clash of Kings" either riding in or riding out of Harrenhal. So they make Arya has cup girl to give him a reason to be a screen (when he doesn't become the cup girl until Roose shows up). I fiugred they were doing something similar when they had Robb dragging Jamie along as he conquers, but he hasn't appeared since episode one.

it looked like the knight he was speaking to about using the prisoners as laborers had it...based on the angle but it was real awkward editing.

i agree thought that'd be weird if Tywin had it. he wouldn't care about such a tiny sword...Valyrian steel or not.

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Yeah I didn't like how Tyrion was a step behind in this ep. He was always ahead of everyone else in ACOK. There also hasn't been any mention of the chain so far which is a bit worrying, since chain + wildfire were essential later on and really showed Tyrion's brilliance for strategy and planning.

Renly's death was a bit underwhelming imo, I expected him to say "Cold.." followed by blood pouring out of his throat. That whole scene should've been a lot more creepier and surprising, which unfortunately wasn't possible since we've already seen the birth of the shadow in the previous ep. Also would've liked to see Loras going nuts on the other members of the Rainbow Guard, oh well.

Lastly, in the book Theon was the one who had the idea of taking Winterfell, not Dagmar. He seems too much of a dummy on the show...

Through the characters?

Mentioning both Tyrion and Theon both like that really makes me think about it.

I am guessing they just wanted to make Cersei smarter and they figured that since Tyrion's already the smartest guy in the room they could throw her a bone. But like you said it's problematic.

>since chain + wildfire were essential later on and really
>showed Tyrion's brilliance for strategy and planning.

Especially since they pull the rug right from under him afterwards. With him just being an 'ok' strategist defeats his whole book 2 arc: he's C-L-E-A-R-L-Y has all the bases covered as far as the game & ruling is concerned, but will never be a prime time player because of his height.

>Renly's death was a bit underwhelming imo, I expected him to
>say "Cold.." followed by blood pouring out of his throat. That
>whole scene should've been a lot more creepier and surprising,
>which unfortunately wasn't possible since we've already seen
>the birth of the shadow in the previous ep. Also would've
>liked to see Loras going nuts on the other members of the
>Rainbow Guard, oh well.

Yeah, Renly's death was pretty limp; it felt like it was a time issue. It resonated much deeper in the books, here a minute later everyone moved on, lol. Loras & Brienne should have went nuttier.

>Lastly, in the book Theon was the one who had the idea of
>taking Winterfell, not Dagmar. He seems too much of a dummy on
>the show...

I can't hate this change because ultimate it was a smart but dumb idea. I wouldn't say Theon was stupid either...Dagmar just throws him the bone of attacking the square and then Theon has that eureka moment that will presumably lead him into attacking Winterfell directly. Either way I think Theon is improved in the show; I actually feel empathy for him...on the page he was just a brat.

the chain. could be wrong though, but I would think they'd have given it a nod by now. it's not really critical for the TV show, as long as they push the wildfire idea.

I agree about Tyrion; he didn't even realize he was being mocked in the square until Bronn told him.

nearly everything with Renly has been underwhelming since his character debuted, so his mundane death was fitting. for some reason they completed whiffed on bringing his book personality to the screen. and you're right, showing the shadow birth first removed the surprise, but I'm cool with that since they had to make a concession either way (we weren't going to Storm's End).

Now forgive me if I am incorrect here but if I remember correctly, in the book...

Wildfire was already being produced before Tyrion got to King's Landing. I thought in the book that it was Cersei who ordered the production of the wildfire along with ordering all the black smiths to create swords and armor.

Then Tyrion got wind of it, went down to see if it was true and inspect the wildfire. And the Master Pryomancer showed him what they were doing and that they were being safe, creating the wildfire in fire proof rooms or something like that.

So then Tyrion orders the pyromancers to continue and work harder. He then orders them to give empty containers to the men on the walls to begin practicing with them so they don't burn King's Landing down. He also orders the blacksmiths to start building the chain link fence as well.

Let me know if I am wrong here. I'm certain that Tyrion didn't come up with the Wildfire thing himself but he got wind of it and ordered the alchemists to work harder, produce more and for the guards to practice tossing the bottles. I'll do some more searching for it.


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>
>Now forgive me if I am incorrect here but if I remember
>correctly, in the book...
>
>Wildfire was already being produced before Tyrion got to
>King's Landing. I thought in the book that it was Cersei who
>ordered the production of the wildfire along with ordering all
>the black smiths to create swords and armor.

Everything you wrote is as I remember it also, I just don't remember the Cersei part. I remember Tyrion going to see the pyromancer and having the conversation, but from what I remember from the book it made it sound like the pyromancers were just practicing their art for arts sake and they were surprised how better the wildfire was turning out because of the return of magic. I don't remember him originally sniffing out the idea from Cersei, or him giving the Pyromancer instructions to specifically leave her out of it.

>Then Tyrion got wind of it, went down to see if it was true
>and inspect the wildfire. And the Master Pryomancer showed
>him what they were doing and that they were being safe,
>creating the wildfire in fire proof rooms or something like
>that.
>
>So then Tyrion orders the pyromancers to continue and work
>harder. He then orders them to give empty containers to the
>men on the walls to begin practicing with them so they don't
>burn King's Landing down. He also orders the blacksmiths to
>start building the chain link fence as well.
>
>Let me know if I am wrong here. I'm certain that Tyrion
>didn't come up with the Wildfire thing himself but he got wind
>of it and ordered the alchemists to work harder, produce more
>and for the guards to practice tossing the bottles. I'll do
>some more searching for it.
>
>
>http://usmdetroit.com/
>http://www.aptemalclothing.com

I did the investigating last time... and I was proven wrong for it. I kinda remember things like Squad does, though...

which is the 5th Tyrion chapter in CoK

Hallyne bobbed his head. "Wisdom Malliard believes we shall be able to provide a full ten thousand jars, as was promised the queen. I concur." The pyromancer looked indecently pleased with the prospect.

---

Hallyne is seen in the previous Tyrion chapter accompanying Cersei as she inspects the city defenses, so it seems indeed that the queen gave the order for wildfire production. Tyrion's role was train the men to use it (to which he asks for a thousand practice pots during his meeting with Hallyne).

Sounds about right. I don't think Cersei was that clever or intelligent enough to actually come up with the idea, but she may have gotten advice from someone on the council, maybe Varys, that the alchemists could make wildfire.

I guess it has never been confirmed who gave the order, I just know that Tyrion wasn't the first one to think of it. Even though Tryion is The Dude in the series.

A lot of stuff that goes on in the TV show, usually happens behind the scenes in the books. I like to use the example of the killing of Robert's bastards. Other stuff that is a little subtle in the book, i.e. Renly and Loras, Stannis and The Red Woman getting busy, it is shown on screen.

I do think GRRM is a consultant on the show, so I'm guessing that the guys who write the show can ask GRRM about this or that to confirm if it goes with the book, or something like that.

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Didn't remember that Cersei was involved. It still seemed out of character of him to beg for information from his sister though, and also him not realising he's the 'demon monkey'.

Man...I got a lump in my throat knowing that's the girl that is basically gonna spark the Red Wedding.

I swear the Red Wedding hurt a nigga's heart yo...I'm still fucked up off that shit.

Then I almost threw it across the room. I literally laid on the couch for 15 minutes with the book closed, in silence. Fuming over what had just happened.


Edit:
But what's up with them changing Jeyne's name to Talia or whatever? There's one theory that she's deceiving Rob since her family isn't allied to the Starks... I hope so, because I can't see any other reason to change her name and origin.

I was on a train upstate from NY and reading that shit. I had just read the last sentence of that godforsaken chapter when I reached my stop. I almost missed it because I was frozen, looking at that page with my jaw still dropped. Man, fuck George R.R. Martin.

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Nah, I understand the sentiment. I'm just waiting for the meltdown when the series gets there. People are going to lose their shit since it seems they're really building up Rob to have much more of a presence in the show.

Killing off main characters is going to become a theme on this show, people better chill and get ready.

Great ep this week. Assuming the dragon-napping is a set up for Dani to visit the House of the Undying. Good call. That chapter was tough to get through.

They offed Cassell early too. Didn't mind the departure from the book though.


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for the final scene in Qarth, I didn't know what was happening lol

Didn't mind Ser Rodrick's death, but now they'll need a different way to show Ramsay's brutality later on. I like how Theon took numerous strikes before cutting off the head, just like in the book. Osha looked great naked, who would've thought a wildling would have such nice skin!

The riot was great, no complaints at all. All in all a great episode.

Having Reek/Ramsay corrupt Theon even further before finally fucking him over would have worked too. They wouldn't have even had to introduce the whole Lady Hornwood plot, they could have just Reek someone the Stark's had kept in their dungeons.

>Great ep this week. Assuming the dragon-napping is a set up
>for Dani to visit the House of the Undying. Good call. That
>chapter was tough to get through.

I don't know, I really liked the House of the Undying Chapter. Shit was really creepy to me.

>They offed Cassell early too. Didn't mind the departure from
>the book though.

I understood why they did it, as they had to have Theon kill someone the audience "knew" and could identify with.

I understand that's also sorta why they had Jaquen klll The Tickler and Amory Lorch for Arya rather than the other two people he kills in the book. Though I would have liked to see Lorch humiliated and then killed by a bear, letting Yoren get his posthumous revenge.

his situation would be difficult to explain. it took me awhile to "get" it while reading the book, and that had more exposition.

Being able to see the character and all...

it would have taken like 4 eps to introduce the new characters and have that saga play out effectively.

they had to dumb it down for tv.

Unsurprised that they seem to be rushing the Jon/Ygritte story, just like they're rushing Robb/Jeyne

Jon turning his cloak without Qhorin's consent, like if he runs into Qhorin again and kills him because he's in love with Ygritte, and is siding with the wildlings, that would be terrible. I'm sure the writers wouldn't destroy his character like that though...

I hadn't even thought of that... but it could definitely happen. Shit. Please don't let that happen.

I'm really not liking this deviation from the books. I swear, my absolute favorite parts of the ACoK is when they're running from Rattleshirt and they can't escape that damn eagle. From the preview for next week, Ygritte presents Jon to Rattleshirt with no other crows anywhere in sight. He's gonna turn his cloak without Qhorin's consent! Goddammit!

Even though Jon is questioning why they're fighting the Wildlings, he still seems very loyal to the Watch. I think Jon will remain captive and they'll run into Qhorin and the others, then battle occurs. The men of the Watch all die, with Qhorin wounded and near death. Rattleshirt tells Jon to put an end to him or he'll die himself, Qhorin tells Jon to do it and to learn about the Wildlings with his final breath...well that's how I'd have it play out at this point anyway.

The eagle part was really cool but it looks like we won't have that on the show, shame.

I punched the air when she said it.

Starting to get perturbed with all this diversion from the source material though.

Like-we're dealing with limited time for stuff to play out and they're wasting all this time for dragon-nappings, Kingslayer kinslaying, and Arya/Tywin scenes that never happened on the book.

I understand the need to condense some stuff but adding things instead??

Things going all out of time & shit. Cait & Brienne didn't visit Jaime in his cell until after word reached them about Bran & Rickon. Totally fuckin shit up.

I'm trying to trust them with all this but it's starting to get to me.




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Jaime tried to escape from Riverrun in the books too (aided by his cousin, who returned with impostors among his guard). the show version was different, but just as good (actually better, IMO).

as far as including the important parts of the book, they should be able to pull it off in three more episodes:

- Jon Snow killing Qhorin and joining the Wildings
- House of the Undying (Episode 8)
- Arya's final wish from Jaqen, and her escape from Harrenhal
- Tywin Lannister leaves Harrenhal (Episode 8/9)
- Battle of Blackwater Bay (Episode 9)
- Theon (Episodes 8/9/10)
- Bran and Co. (Episode 8/10)
- Dany leaves Qarth (Episode 10)

those are just guesses, but leaving some room in episode 10 to summarize the events of King's Landing, and they're good. in fact, there will be a few parts of A Sword of Swords included in the end as well -- the writers have insisted from now on, each season will not be a 1:1 with the corresponding book, but a continuation of the larger story.

Interesting... I've read the books four times now (except for the latest) and I'm loving the diversions from the books - it's making it even more interesting to me because I don't know what's going to happen next either. The scene's between Arya and Tywin are some of my favorite.

> I'm loving the diversions from the books -
>it's making it even more interesting to me because I don't
>know what's going to happen next either.

I agree.

>The scene's between
>Arya and Tywin are some of my favorite.

Yep all the scenes with those two have been great, also:
- Ygritte and Jon
- Tyrion and Cersei - she's much more sympathetic than in the books
- The beginning of the Karstark/Kingslayer beef, which leads to...
- MOAR Jaime please
- Daenerys' plot is the weakest part of the show imo, although her chapters in the books usually weren't my favourites.

...Bran and Rickon screws things up, particularly her motivation and her reaction to events that follow. (Storm of Swords spoilers):











For one, freeing Jamie in attempts to save her two surviving children is a lot more emotionally potent than freeing him because he's about to be killed by Robb's men. Her action was an emotional one, not a tactical one. Furthermore, it screws up the dynamic between her and Robb. Her freeing Jamie out of love for her two daughters causes her to understand why Robb marries the Westerling girl (he also acts out of love). It also removes a great deal of the guilt she feels when Robb eventually kills Karstark.

I'm okay with the Arya/Tywin stuff, 'cause they need to give Tywin something to do. I don't love it that she had Jaquen kill Amory Lorch; seeing fed to a bear (symbolic punishment for killing Yoren) would have been cool. I'm also okay with the North of the Wall stuff, because otherwise, there isn't a lot for Jon to do besides spend the last episode of two running. I do agree that it's important that Qhorin has to be the one that tells him to "betray" the Watch.

(more Storm of Swords SPOILERS)






if Jaime is killed, Catelyn knows Sansa and Arya are as good as dead anyway. letting Jaime go is a hail mary, but that's better than letting Karstark kill him, which is a complete loss.

in the books, Robb had Jaime under control in Riverrun (for the most part). the restless mutiny the show presented only really occurred when they weren't fighting, and in ACOK, they were plenty busy on their way to Casterly Rock.

yeah, Cat had gone a little nuts after hearing about Winterfell, and that's why she acted impulsively with Jaime. but on the show, freeing Jaime is actually the most rational move, and thus easier for me to stomach (because it was a stupid decision, emotions and all, in the book).

you can still use Cat's empathy when it comes to Robb. she, after all, helped start this mess out of love for Bran. I didn't really like Catelyn in the books tho, so take all the above with some bias attached.

they had a good idea but effed it up with Cat's terrible, even-worse than-the-book explanation. shoulda just played up the fact Karstark was going to kill Jaime that night out of pure revenge.

I imagined it as a more smart-assy, playful, smdh type of tone

What is dead may never die but it sure as hell can get its toes and fingers cut off.

Like ... you could truly feel this person's sanity creeping away ... and when you learn who it is you've been seeing the world through, shit ... I dare you to not feel sympathy for that salty motherucker.

I wonder why they left it out? Or am I mixing scenes up or something?

To me...that was a key moment in her character arc in the book. It really showed how fucking hard she was and hastened her movement to the darker side of things.

She wasn't supposed to escape Harrenhall yet. Lannister forces were supposed to capture Roose Bolton and his men. She uses Jaqen H'Gar to help release them.

Then she's made Bolton's cupbearer and and all that and then escapes by distracting the guard with Jaqen's coin and then cutting his throat.

I'm enjoying the episodes and all, but pretty disappointed at the departures they're making.

Are we not gonna get Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions?

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There should still be a lot more on Arya and Jaqen though, judging by episode 10's title ("Valar Morghulis"). It'll probably be a lot different than what goes down in the books though. Hopefully we'll get the Brave Companions in S3, since they're very pivotal in the Jaime/Brienne/Riverlands storyline.

Roose Bolton would never be in Harrenhal. I think there's good reasons for that on the show, since Bolton never really does anything there and it'd take some lengthy exposition to explain (most non-readers couldn't even name Bolton right now; he's just one of Robb's men who has shown up a couple of times for a talk).

I do agree that Jaqen could've been better overall tho.

It was all about her taking control again and stopping being a "mouse" or a "ghost" or a "weasel" and becoming of wolf of Winterfell once again. Plus, they never show Jaquen giving her the coin. But on that note, the season finale is called "Valar Morghulis", so I figure Jaquen will show up then and give her the coin and change his face.

>She wasn't supposed to escape Harrenhall yet. Lannister
>forces were supposed to capture Roose Bolton and his men. She
>uses Jaqen H'Gar to help release them.

Well, techincally the Bolton men were never really captured. Hoat had switched sides already and he was supposed to break them out. Jaquen just did it instead.


>Are we not gonna get Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions?

Well, before the season started they announced the casting of Hoat, so I assume so. Plus, the Brave Companions are very important in terms of Jamie and later the Brotherhood Without Banners. As they appear to be speeding things up, they could appear in the season finale.

Is the lack of battle prep for the seige. That was a huge thing that Tyrin was doing and showed just how smart he was and really ran shit.

The changes have been pretty much slight plot changes that look like they will eventually lead to the same outcome. For instance the plot with Dany and her dragons even if it's drastically different from the book looks to be headed athe showdown at the House of the Undying with presumably the same outcome as the book.

Having Tyrion bond with Bronn and Varys the past few episodes was entertaining, but the fact he's so lost about the future battle reads nothing the book and also the character.

In the book I felt that while he knew the outcome wasn't certain the plans he had in place were solid...particularly the chain & napalm combo which was a stroke of genius.

Tyrion sad story in the book is that all the major bases covered (compassion, smarts, ruthlessness AND wartime strategy) but would never hold a seat of power. In the book 2 he put his whole family on his back and almost singlehandedly carried them to the finish line only to be treated like shit which sets up the characters future motivation. He won't have that same motivation here.

I’m listening to the audiobooks and I have a few quick questions:


1.When Tyrion arranges Myrcella’s marriage and she is led to the large ship that will take her away to her new home, it’s mentioned that the ship is properly named “King Robert’s Hammer”. However it is immediately followed by the statement that its oarsmen called it “Rob’s Hammer”. Since I am listening and cannot see the way it is spelled is this a statement that the common folk at King’s Landing support Robb Stark as their leader?

2.At Winterfell around the time the weird frogeater children reveal to Bran that he’s a shapechanger they mention that there is some nasty feces covered prisoner named “Reek” in the dungeon. Now I know Theon Greyjoy’s future (from sneaking looks on the internet) but ‘m not sure if this is him or not. Is the book doing a Pulp Fiction-style time jump around here? Is the Reek they mentioned the Reek that was once Theon Greyjoy? Or is Reek a name like Storm?

3.Speaking of Storm, why does Danyrys sometimes call herself Danyrys Stormborn?



Opinion questions:

As I said I’m listening on audiobook but that hasn’t stopped me from reading up on a lot of side material on the web: maps, family trees (The Lannister’s is obviously odd), house banners, fealtys, etc.; I absolutely adore it when an author creates such a believable and rich world and I like studyng it like I like studying the various cultures in the real world. So far my favorite, meaning the one I find most interesting and whose details I find wholly compelling, are the peoples of the Iron Islands. The Ironborn. They seem based off ancient Norse/Scot peoples in custom and practice. I understand they are not the most honorable of people as they’re represented, but dammit those fuckers are tough. I like the concept of “paying the iron price” and the Greyjoy’s “we do not sow”.

The Greyjoy’s are the major house of the Iron Islands correct?

Who are your favorites?

>1.When Tyrion arranges Myrcella’s marriage and she is led to
>the large ship that will take her away to her new home, it’s
>mentioned that the ship is properly named “King Robert’s
>Hammer”. However it is immediately followed by the statement
>that its oarsmen called it “Rob’s Hammer”. Since I am
>listening and cannot see the way it is spelled is this a
>statement that the common folk at King’s Landing support Robb
>Stark as their leader?

I'm pretty they're just referring to King Robert Barratheon. He's well known for his Warhammer (which he used to kill Rhaegar at the Trident). King's Landing have no love for the Starks; as far as they've been told, Ned Stark was a traitor.

>2.At Winterfell around the time the weird frogeater children
>reveal to Bran that he’s a shapechanger they mention that
>there is some nasty feces covered prisoner named “Reek” in the
>dungeon. Now I know Theon Greyjoy’s future (from sneaking
>looks on the internet) but ‘m not sure if this is him or not.
>Is the book doing a Pulp Fiction-style time jump around here?
>Is the Reek they mentioned the Reek that was once Theon
>Greyjoy? Or is Reek a name like Storm?

Um, I don't want to give anything away during the rest of the book here. I'll just say there's no Pulp Fiction time-jumping. Things happen in a pretty linear fashion is these books. Sometimes the end of one and the beginning of the next overlap. But there's no time jumping back and forth. Flashbacks are pretty clearly denoted.

>3.Speaking of Storm, why does Danyrys sometimes call herself
>Danyrys Stormborn?

Because she was literally born during a storm.


>The Greyjoy’s are the major house of the Iron Islands
>correct?

Yes, they are.

>Who are your favorites?

Of the Greyjoys? Um, I'm not a really big fan of them. I'm reading the third book, so I don't know too many of them yet. Damphair is a frickin' wet blanket though.

>Damphair is a frickin' wet blanket though.

>1.When Tyrion arranges Myrcella’s marriage and she is led to
>the large ship that will take her away to her new home, it’s
>mentioned that the ship is properly named “King Robert’s
>Hammer”. However it is immediately followed by the statement
>that its oarsmen called it “Rob’s Hammer”. Since I am
>listening and cannot see the way it is spelled is this a
>statement that the common folk at King’s Landing support Robb
>Stark as their leader?

Nope, they're just talking about Robby B.

>2.At Winterfell around the time the weird frogeater children
>reveal to Bran that he’s a shapechanger they mention that
>there is some nasty feces covered prisoner named “Reek” in the
>dungeon. Now I know Theon Greyjoy’s future (from sneaking
>looks on the internet) but ‘m not sure if this is him or not.
>Is the book doing a Pulp Fiction-style time jump around here?
>Is the Reek they mentioned the Reek that was once Theon
>Greyjoy? Or is Reek a name like Storm?

Reek is a character that gets established before Theon's fall. I guess you would call it more of a pet name, the way it gets used. But once Roose Bolton's Bastard starts getting mentioned, Reek is crucial, so follow closely.

>3.Speaking of Storm, why does Danyrys sometimes call herself
>Danyrys Stormborn?

She was born during a storm. She uses it as an alias/title, as Westerosi are wont to do: Danaerys Stormborn, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, etc., etc.

Basically, shit just makes her sound tough, don't it?

>Opinion questions:
>
>As I said I’m listening on audiobook but that hasn’t stopped
>me from reading up on a lot of side material on the web: maps,
>family trees (The Lannister’s is obviously odd), house
>banners, fealtys, etc.; I absolutely adore it when an author
>creates such a believable and rich world and I like studyng it
>like I like studying the various cultures in the real world.
>So far my favorite, meaning the one I find most interesting
>and whose details I find wholly compelling, are the peoples of
>the Iron Islands. The Ironborn. They seem based off ancient
>Norse/Scot peoples in custom and practice. I understand they
>are not the most honorable of people as they’re represented,
>but dammit those fuckers are tough. I like the concept of
>“paying the iron price” and the Greyjoy’s “we do not sow”.
>
>The Greyjoy’s are the major house of the Iron Islands
>correct?
>
>Who are your favorites?


The Greyjoys and the other Ironborns world is so interesting because it's sort of isolated from the rest of the lands and culture, and their traditions seem very odd in comparison. But in and of their own, they are some badasses. Euron is like the embodiment of all things salty. And yeah, the Greyjoys are the dominant family on the Iron Islands.

Personally, I really dig the Martells in Dorne. All these dudes have is wine, but their sense of honor and vengeance is just as strong as anyone in the north. I wish they got more shine. The females of Dorne seem to be hybrids of Brienne and Cersei ... cunning cuts, so to speak.

>Who are your favorites?

but if I'm a person in Westeros, I'd side with the Lannisters like the Tyrells did. Yes Cersei is crazy and Joffrey is a cunt, but you got Tywin who's probably the most intelligent lord in the realm, and his siblings aren't slouches either. Then you got Tyrion whose brains rival or even surpass that of his daddy's, while Jaime's one of the best swordsmen that's ever lived. I find the Lions a lot more intriguing than, say, the Starks ("honour love blah blah blah").

>>Who are your favorites?
>
>but if I'm a person in Westeros

And wasn't a fan of keeping you inside of his castle during war time.

I very much doubt you'd be down with the Lannisters

I was thinking that Casterly Rock or Lannisport residents would have it nice.

I don't think we've ever seen him on the battlefield in the books, though it can't be helped since he's not a POV character.

The battle was tense and very entertaining, with lots of blood and gore just the way it should be. I thought they did a damn good job on showing the destructiveness of wildfire. I wonder how many non-book readers started rooting for the Lannisters without realising, and how many thought Tyrion dies at the end.

Agreed with mrhood75 in the main thread that it would've been even better if Sandor got more shine in previous episodes. I thought her scene with Sansa was going to be awkward (what with Sophie Turner being 16!) but it turned out pretty good since they portrayed Sandor in a big brother/guardian kind of way.

Drunk Cersei was fun to watch too.

....i don't want the show to be a word for word representation of the books, but there are things they skip over that i wish they'd done and things they added that oi really enjoyed seeing....

all in all, i'm happy with the finished product...

Some deviations I'm okay with and I do understand that not everything is going to be word for word, action for action with the book. But there are also some things that I could have done without in regards to what the TV series deviates from. But all in all, I'm satisfied with this product, can't wait til the next episode as well as next season.

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non-readers are having a hard enough time following all the cast's motivations as is. and everybody is spread out (unlike season one), making it more difficult to connect their relationships.

the season for the third book is probably going to be WILDLY different from the book, especially the portions dealing the Arya and Danerys on the road, but Arya in particular. Could probably do half the season alone on Arya's travels.

Plus, there's going to be the struggle of giving stuff to do for all the characters that they've introduced in the previous two seasons, along with all the new characters.

The next season they're going to have to introduce at some point:

1. The Brave Companions
2. The Brotherhood Without Banners
3. The various overlords of cities Dany visits
4. The rest of the Tullys. I'm sorry, but large parts of book 3 don't work without Edmure, Brynden, Hoster, etc.

Plus, the Greyjoys are pretty much off-screen for the entirety of the third book. I figure they're going to want to keep Asha/Yara around, so they gotta give her things to do (probably incorporate stuff from Book 4). And Stannis spends at least half of the book sulking off-screen, so they'll probably invent some stuff to keep him an on-screen presence.

but I don't think we'll see the Blackfish. love the guy, but his character is non-essential at this point.

the Brave Companions are a possibly major pitfall though. their existence is a bit confusing ("wait, so they worked for him? and now they work for who? why did they just do that?"). I think it's quite possible to pare down their involvement.

>but I don't think we'll see the Blackfish. love the guy, but
>his character is non-essential at this point.

Sad but true. That's my dude, though.

>the Brave Companions are a possibly major pitfall though.
>their existence is a bit confusing ("wait, so they worked for
>him? and now they work for who? why did they just do that?").
>I think it's quite possible to pare down their involvement.

Well, apparently they're currently casting for Vargo Hoat. I could have sworn that they announced casting for him before this current season, but apparently not. The Companios in some form a fairly essential to the story, as someone has to cut Jamie's hand off, and thus delay him and Brienne from showing up in King's Landing before its too late. They also make a good foil for the Brotherhood. They might just make them independent marauders or something. I'd like if they could somehow tie them to Roose (if for no other reason that Jamie telling Roose to tell Robb "Hello" when he sees him), but that might not be possible.

Two other characters they probably need to introduce next season as well: the Queen of Thorns and Oberyn Martell. I guess they could do this without the Queen of Thorns, but she's so fucking gangster. I'd also pay real money to see her played by Maggie Smith or Judi Dench (cliched, I know, but it'll never happen anyway so why can't I dream?). Oberyn wouldn't be needed until later on, so they could hold off casting him until a part 2 of Book 3 season.

the show has already written out some of the characters that re-occur during Arya's travels, in particular Catlyn's (sp?) family. Unless the show does a decent to great job of establishing who they are, I'm guessing they will likely ignore those characters. I understand from a logical stand point in terms of having to establish certain characters for the major events for the third book, in particular Catlyn's (sp?) family and the Red Wedding, but seeing that the show has ignored them for so long now, I can't see HBO trying to introduce them to viewers to further confuse people.

you are correct, and I am incorrect. Start of swipe:

link: http://www.avclub.com/articles/here-are-some-of-the-new-characters-coming-to-game,75763/

Here are some of the new characters coming to Game Of Thrones next season

by Sean O'Neal May 29, 2012

With the admonition that it may spoil things to learn that the next season of Game Of Thrones will introduce a whole bunch of new characters, many of whom will participate in plotlines and occasionally speak lines of dialogue, Entertainment Weekly has revealed a list of who will be joining the show next year, prompting viewers who haven't read the books to turn to their significant others and go, "Wait, who is that dude again? Why is Dragon Lady so mad at him?" They include: Mance Rayder, Daario Naharis, Edmure Tully, Ser Brynden Tully (The Blackfish), Lady Selyse Florent, Shireen Baratheon (Stannis' daughter), Olenna Redwyne (The Queen of Thorns), Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, Tormund Giantsbane, and Jojen and Meera Reed—though showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss say there will also be "a few others," until no working actor goes unemployed ever more. Anyway, those who have read the books may recognize some of these characters from A Storm Of Swords (the events of which will be stretched across two seasons), thus giving Game Of Thrones experts the rare opportunity to feel superior.

...two seasons. That way, they don't have consolidate as many of the characters/plot developments, etc.

because like I said before, some of the referenced characters have been introduced in the second book already and judging from the perspective of someone that hasn't read the books, trying to fit more fresh faced characters might confuse folks. Hopefully HBO will do a decent job.

One section I hope the show does a decent job with is when Sam and the Black Rangers battle The Others. Given that they show hasn't really fleshed out his character and the limitation on budget, I'm not too hopeful. But that was a great chapter in terms of character development and overall action, so maybe I'm wrong in my assumption.

might be a good idea to break the seasons up.

My question is, are the fans going to see it through...

writers know they only have one of these multi-volume epics in them. maybe he wants to milk his for all its worth (the last two novels were excessive in world-building and tangential characters).

Storm of Swords *should* be two seasons; that was smart. after that, they need to ditch the book continuity and just pull the most interesting story lines from A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons. neither book "works" as its own season of television.

I think S5 and S6 (Seven Gods praying they happen) could be a lot better than the books if the writers are confident enough to do their own thing with the source material.

Seriously, with all the tangential characters and storylines he's thrown in, it doesn't seem possible. I'd always heard the plan was to wrap up all the storylines that have to do with the battle for the Iron Throne, then jump ahead like 15 years for the final book (taking us to the end of Winter) where they finally fight the White Walkers/Others on a large scale. But it seems like it's going to take more than a book to wrap up the fight for the Iron Throne and whatever is going on in Essos. Shoot, winter hasn't even come to the South yet.

>Storm of Swords *should* be two seasons; that was smart. after
>that, they need to ditch the book continuity and just pull the
>most interesting story lines from A Feast for Crows and A
>Dance With Dragons. neither book "works" as its own season of
>television.

Yeah, I gotta imagine that's how it will work. HBO is not going to want to market an entire season without Tyrion, much less no Jon Snow and no Dany. And I don't think anyone will want to watch it. And I imagine a lot of the other characters introduced in four and five fall by the wayside. The cast is crowded enough already.

>(the
>last two novels were excessive in world-building and
>tangential characters).

So the fifth book introduces a ton of new characters as well? Oh no. I sludged through the first half or so of the fourth book mainly because it was hard for me to care too deeply about the new characters, muchless having to cull my memory to see which of the older characters they were related to. When the book went back to the older characters, the book flowed a lot easier for me. I have about 200 or so pages left, so I hope the end has as nice a cliffhanger as the third book did. Martin did he thing in how he ended the third book.

I figured the show wouldn't have Tyrion go with half a nose based on the special effects needed, but it would have been cool to see him rock an eye-patch or something more permanent as result of the betrayal. He only got a cut on the cheek, correct? Seems like that would leave a very minor scar. I minor point to nitpick, but the books refer to the damage Tyrion got from the battle numerous times, and it would have been nice to have a physical reminder of the betrayal, muchless to see Tyrion struggle to deal with a permanent reminder of what went down.

From one side to the other. That's pretty permanent and prominent.

Like you said, they weren't going to have him have his nose chopped off. This will work instead.

– Mance Rayder: We’ve heard about him all season. A former member of the Night’s Watch who became the “King Beyond the Wall,” the leader of the Wildlings.
– Daario Naharis: A confident and seductive warrior.
– Jojen Reed; Meera Reed: A teenage brother and sister duo with special insights.
– Edmure Tully: A brash young member of the Tully family.
– Ser Brynden Tully (The Blackfish): Catelyn Stark’s uncle.
– Lady Selyse Florent: Stannis Baratheon’s wife.
– Shireen: Stannis’ daughter.
– Olenna Redwyne (The Queen of Thorns): Margaery Tyrell’s sharp-witted grandmother.
– Beric Dondarrion: A skilled knight who is the leader of the outlaw group Brotherhood Without Banners.
– Thoros of Myr: A red priest who follows the same religion as Melisandre.
– Tormund Giantsbane: A Wildling raider.


http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/05/29/game-of-throne-season-3-cast/
________________________________
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>– Mance Rayder: We’ve heard about him all season. A former
>member of the Night’s Watch who became the “King Beyond the
>Wall,” the leader of the Wildlings.

Can't believe I didn't list him earlier as an essential character that they need to cast.

>– Daario Naharis: A confident and seductive warrior.

No real thoughts on dude.

>– Jojen Reed; Meera Reed: A teenage brother and sister duo
>with special insights.

Figured they'd have to introduce them at some point. Osha can only take the story so far, especially if they're going to split up Bran and Rickon.

>– Edmure Tully: A brash young member of the Tully family.

Essential to the story.

>– Ser Brynden Tully (The Blackfish): Catelyn Stark’s uncle.

The Blackfish! Yes! That's my motherfucka!

>– Lady Selyse Florent: Stannis Baratheon’s wife.

Fair enough, though I believe she was already shown in the first episode of this season, when they're burning the statues. Regardless, they need her to act as a true believer/convert to R'hollor now that Davos' son is dead.

>– Shireen: Stannis’ daughter.

Makes sense.

>– Olenna Redwyne (The Queen of Thorns): Margaery Tyrell’s
>sharp-witted grandmother.

Good. Golly she's gully.

>– Beric Dondarrion: A skilled knight who is the leader of the
>outlaw group Brotherhood Without Banners.

Another essential character, though they technically cast him already in the first season.

>– Thoros of Myr: A red priest who follows the same religion as
>Melisandre.

Another good one.

>– Tormund Giantsbane: A Wildling raider.

Another one of my favorites. Hopefully they don't try to merge him with Styrr. I like them as separate characters.

_______________________________
Killer Mike - R.A.P. Music
Casual - He Still Think He Raw
Oh No - Ohnomite

.

Yeah, I was dying to hear how that silly shit is supposed to sound!


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that seen works so much better with her having drank it.

I mean, seeing Khal Drogo again was dope. Real dope. But that chapter was extra fucking creepy to me in the book, and here it didn't quite work.

And now I'm worried since they had her command the dragons to flambe the warlocks, they're not going to show her taking over Astapor, which is one my favorite scenes in Storm of Swords.

the red wedding.

In one of the visions she sees a man with a wolf's head wearing a crown...

before it actually happens. No Ramsay this season it seems was part of that. Furthermore, depicting Roose Bolton as one of Robb's loyal lieutenants who only mentions flaying once, instead of the cold, calculating leech lord who employs men like the Brave Companions and takes over Harrenhall is another part of it.

...Winterfell, 'cause they want the big Roose Bolton reveal to have maximum impact, but man, I kinda wanted them to show Ramsay in some capacity. I do think that whole Theon in Winterfell plot was one the storylines that transferred over from the book exceedingly well. The scene with Theon's final speech was perfectly done.

and by ratio ... and it's the one marked SPOILERS.

If I had missed an episode I woulda been pissed going into that other post.

But as far as where the show's at, there's nothing in here that really gives too much away unless you're curious and look into what people are alluding to ... but then, that's on you ...

Maybe they are just saving that for next season. Hopefully, as that is a turning point, somewhat, for Samwell and his confidence and courage. He really doesn't stab him, just sort of holds the dagger out and trips into an other and destroys it.

Also, I didn't really like the shriek by the other, they are not fucking naz-gul. I remember reading somewhere the Others are actually fairly intelligent and have their own language.

Those are my two biggest gripes. I still enjoyed the episode and the series overall.

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He never was a big player with Dany, but he didn't have to go out like that, right?

He would have given her boats ....

but yeah, your gripes are warranted, too.

The Other are on the Children of the Forest, beyond the Shadowlands, old magic, so it would make more since that they would be more or as advanced as the local primitives.

Xaro got done right, imo. Him and Dany's handmaiden helped to plot the stealing of her dragons and the slaughter of her people. So, I believe justice was done in that sense.

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I'm just comparing to book Xaro, and book Xaro did not get locked in his own vault.

Forgot what happened to Xaro Xaro in the book. I am re-reading it right now. Just started CoK.

On another note, why the fuck did Robert Baratheon go hunting? WTF? His best friend buddy who is his hand just gets attacked by one of his Kingsguard, get his whole crew slaughtered and injuries his leg and King Rob just goes hunting like fuck it. I get it, that is is needed for the plot. If Robert doesn't go hunting, doesn't get killed then there really is no rest of the series and everything happens like a fairy tale. I understand that he is a terrible King and just leaves the kingdom up to the Hand and council. IDK, just seems shitty that he left with his boy just being injured at the hands of his kingsguard and takes off like that.

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and he plays a minor role in the slave-trade war.

That's about it, but still ... it's not being locked in an empty vault ...

>
>Maybe they are just saving that for next season. Hopefully,
>as that is a turning point, somewhat, for Samwell and his
>confidence and courage. He really doesn't stab him, just sort
>of holds the dagger out and trips into an other and destroys
>it.

They were revealing the Others for the first time in a big cliff-hanger ending to show how serious shit is, demonstrating how royally fucked the Night's Watch is.

First episode of next season, they gotta show the Others easily massacre Mormont's, just to establish how bad-ass the Others are. Then, in like the second or third episode, show Sam and the survivors flee, and have him accidently kill one.

Got it. I can go along with that too. I'm not quite understanding why the Other looks at Sam but keeps moving though. But we will have to wait til next season.

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2 big complaints so far:

too many motherfucking songs. I hated that about LOTR and this is getting bad with that goddamned bear with no hair.

Samwell chapters?? NOOOOO!!!! He's tiresome and tedious when he's just adding to someone else's conversation. This first chapter with him is the worst moment not featuring Sansa or Dany in the entire run so far.

I REALLY am digging every other thing so far. Arya's story is cool as shit, Jamie & Brienne, and I'm liking this Queen of Thorns so far.

I FF'd every moment between Robb & his new bride in the show so I'm glad there's no long and boring love shit here. I'm glad Robb found love though, I just know this is going to be the one thing that will work out for the Starks.

Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, Stephen King, Animal Farm...the whole enjoyment of music is hearing it. reading lyrics on their own doesn't translate.

i've never once in my life read through one.

I don't mind a line or two, but a whole fucking song is too much and the feeling the author is trying to convey is often lost in trying to produce a clever song. Admittedly, I am also not really a poetry lover either, so I'm kinda biased when it comes to these things.

after you've gotten some more reading done.

looking forward to the tv version myself and the boards reaction

Just skip the songs. Thats what I do. Although hearing the songs actually sung, such as The Rains of Castamere, is pretty sweet.


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That shit was haunting and moody ... so perfect ...

Especially hearing the difference in tone between Bronn's version and the closing credits rendition.

.

>I FF'd every moment between Robb & his new bride in the show
>so I'm glad there's no long and boring love shit here. I'm
>glad Robb found love though, I just know this is going to be
>the one thing that will work out for the Starks.

I only stopped & watched when I saw them finally start fucking.

I LOVED whatever song it was that they played at the Red Wedding--"And who are you that I should bow so low" or whatever it said. It was perfect.

*Edited for a typo.

http://twitter.com/collazo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLHqRZyPN5g

I'm pretty amazed how Martin managed to turn Theon into a sympathetic character. I actually smiled when Asha reunited with Theon. Also kind of disappointed how boring the chapter with Danerys have been, outside of her exit at the fighting pits. I'm curious how the show will punch up her storyline. The lone chapter I've read dealing with Arya almost seemed like a throwaway in that her promotion seemed to be a bit too quick, but I suppose her having some mention is better than her not being mentioned at all.

he also moved a sansa chapter to the next book as well.

he said the next book (winds of winter) takes place immediately following adod and starts with two major battles (winterfell and mereen i assume)

true arya promotion was fast, but she was also too young to train there anyway. she used her warging to move ahead, so she takes after her brother (jon).

I’m following these on audiobooks and I could not get enough of the first 3 books. The story in books 2 & 3 was amazing and the narrator kicks ass. I’ve finished Storm of Swords, which I loved, as well as Clash of Kings, and am debating Feast for Crows. The reason I’m hesitant is I’ve seen several reviews describing it as the weakest of the series and that it’s wandering and plodding. Mostly though, I’m hesitant because I have read ONLY negative reviews of the job the narrator does. Same narrator from the first 3 but apparently he all of a sudden changed up voices and mispronounces several names and places.

Anyhoo. Where do you rate FFC in the series? Could I skip and go to book 5 (which I’m like 99.9% I won’t do…)?

A Feast for Crows has a lot of Cersei, Sansa, Brienne and Sam. I know many fans hate three out of those four, and thus hate the book entirely.

I can't speak to the audiobooks, but I wouldn't recommend skipping AFFC. it's the weakest of the five so far, but there's a good deal of new stuff from Dorne and the Iron Islands that connects down the line.

the way I see it, you have four or five more years before Martin publishes another book, so you might as well go through the last two in order...

>the way I see it, you have four or five more years before
>Martin publishes another book, so you might as well go through
>the last two in order...

SO far its a lot of pig boy and Dornish pricks. Not feeling it yet at all.

Yes, the major characters are somewhat peripheral but there's still a lot of depth there as well as added understanding/development to characters. As Will said above, you have plenty of time until the next book so there's no hurry.

http://youtu.be/rpSDSgChsaI

All of them actually were good choices. Psyched.


http://twitter.com/collazo
http://www.reverbnation.com/livesociety

But wow, Jojen has such a hard look to get right and they totally nailed it, that dude is perfect.

http://twitter.com/collazo
http://www.reverbnation.com/livesociety

no pedo.

http://www.tvrage.com/news/1283/game-of-thrones-season-3-ramsay-bolton-cast

http://winteriscoming.net/2012/07/iwan-rheon-cast-in-game-of-thrones/

I'm thinking he could work. He resembles the actor they cast as Roose as well.

And those tv thread people get mighty touchy if a spoiler slips. I think I will just keep my Season 3 tv thoughts in this thread.

Watching the first episode tonight.

But yeah, the TV folks are saying if you read the books at all, they don't even want you in the thread ...

I understand why they couldn't re-introduce Ser Barristan as Arstan; that would only work on the printed page. Still, I'm a little sad that we're not going to get Strong Belwas, who I liked quite a bit. It kind of changes the dynamic of Selmy's big reveal about Ser Jorah.

I also guess I understand why they combined Tormund and the Magnar of Thenn into one person. It seems like they're making him more Magnar than Tormund, which I'm not crazy about. I liked Tormund a lot, especially his interplay with Jon as friends. Still, the introduction to Mance was done well enough (though I wish they had him playing the lute or something).

I'm okay with them expanding Margery's role too. They kept alluding to how beloved she was in the city by the common people, so it make sense that they show her building that love. And laying the ground-work to manipulate Joffrey.

The whole Stannis/Davos storyline seems weird this season. I get most of the beats, but considering that they used the first big pay-off last season, with Stannis telling Davos he's making him his Hand, I don't really know where they go with the story this season.

That scene where he kills dude after toying with him in front of mareen I think was hilarious.

I agree that's a great scene, but they can probably do it with Selmy instead, to show how great of a warrior he is.

>I understand why they couldn't re-introduce Ser Barristan as
>Arstan; that would only work on the printed page. Still, I'm a
>little sad that we're not going to get Strong Belwas, who I
>liked quite a bit. It kind of changes the dynamic of Selmy's
>big reveal about Ser Jorah.

The Whitebeard reveal was one of my favourite moments from ASoS. Granted, the internet would've figured it out minutes after the episode aired, unless the actor goes uncredited for the relevant eps...

There will be many opportunities to introduce Belwas in the next few seasons. We're only getting Edmure & Brynden Tully this season so I'm hopeful for Belwas.

For the most part, I liked the episode. But I had a few issues with it...

The opening scene (Sam and the Night's Watch)...
The way they're handling this in no way portrays the sheer terror of what has just happened/what is happening. Sam being rescued by Commander Mormot and a huge group of NW? The NW is supposed to be in disarray -- bodies everywhere and then the emergence of Sam the Slayer.
The ease at which they dealt with that Wight lessens the statement Qhorin made about Jon having killed a Wight and being able to do it again, last season. Sam the Slayer could still happen and wouldn't be difficult to work in at all, though.

Harrenhall (Robb and the Northsmen)
I have no idea what's going on here. This part is playing out a lot differently.


Wildlings of the North (Jon and Mance)
I didn't really understand Jon's statement that he wanted to be on the side who "fights for the living." How are Mance's camp the ones who fight for the living? Because they're closer to the culture (and blood) of the first men? But Mance isn't trying to fight the Others... they're trying to run! Jon wouldn't know that, of course, but it just seemed an odd reason for "wanting to join."

I thought it was a good episode though, despite my quibbles. The scene with Tyrion and Tywin was amazing. I like what they're doing with Margaery. Salladhor Saan is very likeable and had a good scene with Daavos. And I'm wondering if Belwas is gonna be introduced.

Finally, Missandei is fine as fuck. I was all "C'mon titty, c'mon titty"

>The opening scene (Sam and the Night's Watch)...
>The way they're handling this in no way portrays the sheer
>terror of what has just happened/what is happening. Sam being
>rescued by Commander Mormot and a huge group of NW? The NW is
>supposed to be in disarray -- bodies everywhere and then the
>emergence of Sam the Slayer.
>The ease at which they dealt with that Wight lessens the
>statement Qhorin made about Jon having killed a Wight and
>being able to do it again, last season. Sam the Slayer could
>still happen and wouldn't be difficult to work in at all,
>though.

Yes, the opening Samwell chapter in the book was better, but I think you're putting way too much on it here. A few things: 1) they didn't have the budget to pull off a snow battle, so the "wights are coming" scene in the S2 finale would have to do, 2) It wasn't like there was a huge number of rangers saving him. Those were the only 20, out of like the 200 that started. Now, they hadn't done quite as good a job as establishing how many Rangers there originally were out there, but they all looked battle worn, 3) Mormont knew how to kill a Wight with fire. It's how Jon Snow saved him in the first book, 4) Sam the Slayer doesn't happen until they're on their way back to the Wall, after the initial battle. They have plenty of time to establish the Wights slaughtering them as they try to return home, their fire being ineffective due to the snows, and Sam finally saving them with the dragonglass.

>Harrenhall (Robb and the Northsmen)
>I have no idea what's going on here. This part is playing out
>a lot differently.

The Mountain killed a bunch a Northerners and abandoned Harrenhall. I imagine Roose is going to end up staying there, and when Jamie and Briene get captured by Vargo Hoat, they end up there.

>Wildlings of the North (Jon and Mance)
>I didn't really understand Jon's statement that he wanted to
>be on the side who "fights for the living." How are Mance's
>camp the ones who fight for the living? Because they're closer
>to the culture (and blood) of the first men? But Mance isn't
>trying to fight the Others... they're trying to run! Jon
>wouldn't know that, of course, but it just seemed an odd
>reason for "wanting to join."

He's arguing that Mormont and the Watch were just fine with Craster sacrificing his children to the Others, so they're not really serious about protecting the people. Whereas the Wildlings are.

>I thought it was a good episode though, despite my quibbles.
>The scene with Tyrion and Tywin was amazing. I like what
>they're doing with Margaery. Salladhor Saan is very likeable
>and had a good scene with Daavos. And I'm wondering if Belwas
>is gonna be introduced.

As I said above, I think the solo intro of Selmy at the end of this episode means no Belwas. Which does kinda suck.

But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Like I said, I don't think they did a good job at displaying how terrifying that whole event is. The group of crows seems "huge" to me, because we've never seen a huddle of them like that before. They did make them look battle worn, but I think it needed more death. It's like you said, because they didn't establish well how many were out there, but that's why showing the death would be so helpful. It looks like these dudes made it through that initial thrust largely unscathed

Yes, the Lord Commander obviously knows how to kill them... but it just seemed so easy -- that was the point I was trying to make. Jon was "special" because he had done it and could do it again. They didn't even try to surround it or anything, just bloop, torch in the back.

But you're right, I got my Sam the Slayer timing a little off. Should be in the next episode or two.

I really wish they could film these scenes at night, or that they could digitally alter them...

I think I remember in the books yingritte saying something like they came out when the wildings started digging up graves looking for the horn to bring the wall down.

to reappear. They were gone for 8,000 years, then they started reappearing right around when the first book start. An explanation has yet to be given. Not sure if it's the return of the Night King or some strange revenge of Rhaegar Targaryen or what.

>For the most part, I liked the episode. But I had a few
>issues with it...
>
>The opening scene (Sam and the Night's Watch)...
>The way they're handling this in no way portrays the sheer
>terror of what has just happened/what is happening. Sam being
>rescued by Commander Mormot and a huge group of NW? The NW is
>supposed to be in disarray -- bodies everywhere and then the
>emergence of Sam the Slayer.
>The ease at which they dealt with that Wight lessens the
>statement Qhorin made about Jon having killed a Wight and
>being able to do it again, last season. Sam the Slayer could
>still happen and wouldn't be difficult to work in at all,
>though.
>

It did make him look more cowardly than neccessary
Like dude is a coward but...
I don't think they pressed enough how hopeless the situation
Was and is
made him just seem freaked out about the dead body and the wight popping up
When there is a bit more going on


>and had a good scene with Daavos. And I'm wondering if Belwas
>is gonna be introduced.

I can't wait for him

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I read all 5 in like a 3 and 1/2 week span last summer. Think i'm going to go back and go a little slower this time.
Also I just watched the 1st episode of Season 1 of the HBO series. I was underwhelmed by it. My biggest gripe is the actor for Robert Baratheon. in the novel he's suppose to be a Bear of a Man. Bigger than everyone except Gregor Clegane. in the t.v show he's smaller than Eddard Stark, lol.

after the stint as king.

But yeah, it's hard to imagine the dude from Still Standing ever being bulky and brawny ... but it's not impossible.

But the only one I really don't like is the recasting of the mountain. Dude is tall, but just not scary.

Hasn't he been re-cast again this season? Or the guy who played him the first season is back?

I hope it's either one of those. The Mountain is supposed to inspire terror, not just be tall.

The guy from season 1 was dope.
I guess he took a role on Spartacus and was filming The Hobbit too.

I hope the Mountain comes back for The Hobbit 2...

because that dude got his face straight sliced off in like his second episode of Spartacus.

Like, a sword uppercut hitting between the chin and adam's apple, going straight up through the top of his head. Whole fucking face slid down like a piece of raw meat thrown at a window, leaving his exposed brain just pulsating in open air. It was a top-3 death on Spartacus, which is saying a LOT--that show gets pretty fucking ignorant in its death scenes.

I notice hen I reread books too close to tv series/movie premieres

I get disappointed

Having a general impression woks better
This way I have favorite parts from each and can respect the genres and choices a bit better
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

The scope of the books is way too large to do in a tv series with 10 hours episodes and a limited budget.

Looks like no Bloody Mummers/Brave Companions.

Didn't really make sense to me how the Reed kids just came out of nowhere and discovered Bran and co.

We saw the seeds being sown for the NW revolts and killing of the Old Bear. As well as a foreshadowing to the Red Wedding from Karstark.

I read some other accounts of Catelyn's monologue... and it wasn't as bad to me as it was to them. But I understand their beef with it. You can read it here:


----------------------
But the scene so fundamentally betrays the character and her relationship to the setting she’s in that it’s hard to see it as anything but a very poor choice by the writers. The whole point of Catelyn Stark refusing to do anything more but tolerate Jon Snow’s presence—and that unwillingly—is that she is not his mother, and in Westeros she does not have a social or moral obligation to be his mother. She is not his step-mother, he is not her step-son—that’s not how things work in the Seven Kingdoms. Might a young Catelyn have prayed for the gods to contrive to send Jon away? Sure. Might she even have prayed for his death? I’m dubious, but in a moment of weakness even the god-fearing might do as much, so lets say it might happen. Would she regret having done so? Absolutely. But would she at any moment have considered herself a mother to Jon and responsible for him in some way? Never. Would she have put the inheritance of her own children at risk by urging Ned to legitimize Jon? Never, ever. The writers have made a fundamental change to her character. She’s still recognizably Catelyn Stark, one supposes, but it’s one who deviates sharply.

And it’s a deviation that both diminishes her, and leaves me baffled. If they were going to make a point of Jon Snow’s bastardy and his uneasy relationship with Catelyn in this episode, why in the world did they fail to use Jon’s real explanation to Mance Rayder for why he wanted to join him? Turning, as it does (and does so memorably), on Jon’s place in the world as a bastard.

if there was any ...

Where the land is low is where the bones'll show through.

Trying to humanize in her into a context that resonates with viewers rather than sticking with the context and realities of her world. Most definitely changes her character and I honestly think it may have been done to make her impending 'death' and then 'resurrection' resonate more with the audience.

>Trying to humanize in her into a context that resonates with
>viewers rather than sticking with the context and realities of
>her world. Most definitely changes her character and I
>honestly think it may have been done to make her impending
>'death' and then 'resurrection' resonate more with the
>audience.

Yep. I agree with that completely. The reason that it doesn't hit me as strongly as it did with that writer is that she says she couldn't follow through. If she would've said something like she begged Ned to legitimize Jon despite her scorn for him, and Ned refused or something like that -- then I'd be more mad about it.

The part about changing Jon's reason for joining the wildlings hits it right on the head for me though.

>Trying to humanize in her into a context that resonates with
>viewers rather than sticking with the context and realities of
>her world. Most definitely changes her character and I
>honestly think it may have been done to make her impending
>'death' and then 'resurrection' resonate more with the
>audience.

and you captured it perfectly. writers are just trying to get a more redemptive arc for catelyn and the audience. i would be surprised if they actually go through with the resurrection storyline given what they have already cut out and how little she comes back into the books from that epilogue and beyond.

>i would be surprised if they actually go through with the resurrection storyline

It's going to be a oh shit moment after the dust is settled after the weddings.

I understand why they make the changes they do, but I think I can also appreciate both materials on their own, so I'm not taking any of this personally.

Two thoughts:

The Hound shoulda been The Mountain but then there would have been no The Hound, so ... bring back season 1 The Mountain ... at least he was big enough to make The Hound look small.

And this episode, for some reason, brought home the one moment I'm really anticipating -- and likely one of the cruxes of this story -- Bran and Arya's homecomings.

You know GRRM is not about happy endings.
We all like to hope Bran and Arya will make it home... but I wouldn't get those hopes too high.

And not getting my hopes up ... just thinking the kids are gonna play important roles and be around for a while ...

I was thinking I'd like to see Bran and Arya reunite ... but then I remembered what's come before and sort of thought better of that ...

the writers have done a great job back-filling her story from CoK forward ... really looking forward to her continued growth, especially with the developments in DwD.

i am in the middle of SoS right now. i'm really sad tormund has been changed from the character on the page. also, i'm in the minority with the actress playing the queen of thorns. i don't find her nearly 'thorny' enough. guess i had the dowager countess in mind or someone a bit more acerbic.

less Judi Dench

now i have her spilling a martini while air quoting and yelling "BITCH!" through the wall.

>also, i'm in
>the minority with the actress playing the queen of thorns. i
>don't find her nearly 'thorny' enough. guess i had the dowager
>countess in mind or someone a bit more acerbic.


agreed. thought the same thing watching it last night and wanting maggie smith to show up and take everyone there down a peg.

Or at least they're equivalent on the TV show. They announced before the season that they had cast someone to play Vargo Hoat, so I imagine he's the lead scout. Kind of a shame that we're not going to get Qyburn, Shagwell, and some of the others. They were amongst the most despicable characters in the books.

I also wished they ended the episode with Hoat cutting off Jamie's hand. When I read it, I thought it was a perfect way to end an episode. They could have eliminated the Catelyn sppech and worked that in.

I am feeling some sort of way about all the combining eliminating of characters. Like combining Thoros and Ton Sevenstrings, and eliminating almost all of the Brotherhood members. I'll also say that for a book that they're splitting into two seasons, they're sure burning through lots of plot quickly.

I'm also going to guess that the boy who promises to "free" Theon is really Ramsay Snow, rather than the guy that's doing the torturing.

Fan suggestions
Qyburn was in the first episode. He's the sole survivor from Harrenhal.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Locke

Damn, I watched it and thought, "Damn, is that the manager from 'Almost Famous'/ol' boy from 'Shine'?" Apparently it is.

>Or at least they're equivalent on the TV show. They announced
>before the season that they had cast someone to play Vargo
>Hoat, so I imagine he's the lead scout. Kind of a shame that
>we're not going to get Qyburn, Shagwell, and some of the
>others. They were amongst the most despicable characters in
>the books.

he was the barely alive guy in harrenhal when robb got there.

>I am feeling some sort of way about all the combining
>eliminating of characters. Like combining Thoros and Ton
>Sevenstrings, and eliminating almost all of the Brotherhood
>members. I'll also say that for a book that they're splitting
>into two seasons, they're sure burning through lots of plot
>quickly.

yup, but ...

>I'm also going to guess that the boy who promises to "free"
>Theon is really Ramsay Snow, rather than the guy that's doing
>the torturing.

this never appeared in any of the books. i'm with you that it's ramsay, but this plot could take some good screen time depending on how far they go. when we meet up with theon again after CoK, he's reek, iirc. so, lots to flesh out there if they want to explain the transformation. plus, sansa's wedding, jon raiding, bran's journey, etc. i think the book could split into two halves nicely.

>he was the barely alive guy in harrenhal when robb got there.

I wondered what the guy was saying.

>this never appeared in any of the books. i'm with you that
>it's ramsay, but this plot could take some good screen time
>depending on how far they go. when we meet up with theon again
>after CoK, he's reek, iirc. so, lots to flesh out there if
>they want to explain the transformation.

Yeah, but it's sort of alluded to in Dance of Dragons. Plus, it sort of plays "tribute" to Clash of Kings, where Ramsay pretends to be something he's not in order to manipulate Theon. Or, in this case, give him hope before crushing him.

>
>I'm also going to guess that the boy who promises to "free"
>Theon is really Ramsay Snow, rather than the guy that's doing
>the torturing.

thats simon from misfits dammnit
i dont want to dislike simon
but ugh ramsay is a disgusting character
simon will do a good job =(
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>----------------------
>But the scene so fundamentally betrays the character and her
>relationship to the setting she’s in that it’s hard to see it
>as anything but a very poor choice by the writers. The whole
>point of Catelyn Stark refusing to do anything more but
>tolerate Jon Snow’s presence—and that unwillingly—is that she
>is not his mother, and in Westeros she does not have a social
>or moral obligation to be his mother. She is not his
>step-mother, he is not her step-son—that’s not how things work
>in the Seven Kingdoms. Might a young Catelyn have prayed for
>the gods to contrive to send Jon away? Sure. Might she even
>have prayed for his death? I’m dubious, but in a moment of
>weakness even the god-fearing might do as much, so lets say it
>might happen. Would she regret having done so? Absolutely. But
>would she at any moment have considered herself a mother to
>Jon and responsible for him in some way? Never. Would she have
>put the inheritance of her own children at risk by urging Ned
>to legitimize Jon? Never, ever. The writers have made a
>fundamental change to her character. She’s still recognizably
>Catelyn Stark, one supposes, but it’s one who deviates
>sharply.
>
>And it’s a deviation that both diminishes her, and leaves me
>baffled. If they were going to make a point of Jon Snow’s
>bastardy and his uneasy relationship with Catelyn in this
>episode, why in the world did they fail to use Jon’s real
>explanation to Mance Rayder for why he wanted to join him?
>Turning, as it does (and does so memorably), on Jon’s place in
>the world as a bastard.
>

i remember this point
where i changed what i felt towards her
because i felt so much toards Jon
and it explained Jon with the wildings
also explains Jon after the wildings
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Started reading the series after season 1
Slacked on book 2 majorly and finished it right before season 3 started
Blowing through book 3 and holy shit this is great. I'm just gonna finish em all back to back.

That red wedding and Joffs wedding gave me chills.

Sansa keeps getting fucked
Seriously can't put this thing down

the books have lessened my excitement for the series. I do way too much comparisons now and often complain in my head "Why did they change this?!", "What happened to character x?!", etc. I just want to enjoy the series for what it is, but it's very difficult to do.

In this ep Catelyn's speech about Jon definitely stood out for me. In the books she did not show any remorse or regret on treating Jon like dirt, at least from what I can remember. Also I was a bit underwhelmed with the Jaime and Brienne fight, it just seemed a lot more epic in the book. Also wish they could've put the boat escape sequence in there, had my hopes up for a sec when they reached the river...

Anyway, a new-ish (Jan 2013) Arianne chapter from the Winds of Winter. Can't wait to go home and read it:

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

on account of restrictions of budget and the medium.

Plus, there are parts about the show I love on its own, so I'm willing to forgive it

>In this ep Catelyn's speech about Jon definitely stood out for
>me. In the books she did not show any remorse or regret on
>treating Jon like dirt, at least from what I can remember.
>Also I was a bit underwhelmed with the Jaime and Brienne
>fight, it just seemed a lot more epic in the book. Also wish
>they could've put the boat escape sequence in there, had my
>hopes up for a sec when they reached the river...

Agreed on both points. Cat'll still be sick as Stonehart.

The Jaime, Brienne fight is a great example of budget restraints. The stunt work needed for what was in the book coulda been costly ... and the swordplay was well choreographed at least ...

>Anyway, a new-ish (Jan 2013) Arianne chapter from the Winds of
>Winter. Can't wait to go home and read it:
>
>http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

Ah sweet! Thanks!

The actors aren't trained swordsmen, and they can't come at each other with any real intent. They swing at each others swords, never at the body or limbs. The choreography is too visible.

So, I don't hold the sword fighting in any movie/show against it.

I'm very curious to how a real sword fight, with killing intent actually looks. Searching youtube now.

when they were both dodging the razor by hairs.

If they had to cut certain stuff out to make sure that the Red Wedding is done right (ie bloody and brutal), like Blackwater last season, then I'm totally cool with that.

seriously every week this season theyre having epic battles with good effects

and Starz is not as popular a network as HBO

that Jaime vs Brienne fight sucked

Awesome
What was I ever thinking reading this tripe

*burns books and destroys dvr*

i usually need a six month window
depending on if something else caught my attention in depth
no less than a month

switching back and forth between book and tv/film

or else yeah in evitable comparisons


if enough time passes though i can appreciate it in its own format


george made it easier because hes so damn slow with his series

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I think the showrunners are still doing a great job, and I know they're doing the best they could at staying true to the novels. I think it's because book 3 was so great that I had hoped everything awesome in it would be on the show too, which of course is a near impossible task.

That was soooo good
Kept my attention the whole time I really couldn't put it down

The weddings
Jon Snows shit just felt great. Homeboy went through a lot it's a wonder he's still alive.

Cat still alive at the end?! She on some zombie shit now?!

Already got book 4 on the kindle ready to go. I hear its not as good. Still can't wait to dive into it though.

We can breath wrong and **spoiler**

it's like going from S1 of the wire to S2.

you expect one thing and get another. once you finish the whole story, i think book 4 will be on the same level as any of the others.

I liked season 2 much more the second time I watched it. I wonder if I'd like AFFC if I were to read it again. I didn't dislike it as much as others but I did think it was the least captivating.

almost mid-way through book three now, so i will be reading FfC again soon and looking forward to seeing it again knowing what to expect.

i'm hoping the S2 comparison works. i think it definitely does from one angle, but i'll be interested to see if FfC gains after a second read.

He got off weak ...

I am still not sure who is the bastard of bolton.

But the Bolton bastard wouldn't go as far as to kill his own men, right?

Doesn't make sense to make that character sympathetic at all at all ...

theon's torture at the hands of the bastard is about as depraved as can be ... and i thought it was alluded to that theon was allowed to "escape" on a couple of occasions for the bastards own sport?

that's what I thought too ...

like ... at all.

with winterfell gone, robb down south with every northern banner, he basically has the north to himself ... and acts like it.

i mean, the lady hornwood story alone. eesh.

could still be an elaborate setup ... just gets a little harder for me to buy the more they play him up as any kind of savior ... which I'd guess they are doing just to make the heel turn more effective ...

He's willing to kill his own guards if it helps him to further fuck with Theon.

I also think he's letting Theon go to Asha (Yara) and/or the rest of the Ironmen to give him more hope before the rest of the Dreadfort soldiers come in and crush them all.

I imagine the big "reveal" will be somewhere in the second to last episode, to show how evil the Boltons are, just before they have the Red Wedding.

What did strike me as interesting was that whoever his "savior" is told him to ride East. There is nothing/no one East of Winterfell that would be of any help to him. Asha (Yara) is to the West and his family is far Southwest. The Dreadfort (ie more torture) is to the East.

takes this morally sketch character, made him totally despicable, to the point that you wish ill on him, and then grr martin completely castrates him.

but somewhere in the middle a all of that, you feel bad for the boy, and see perfectly how his own and other peoples' decisions completely had him frakked from go.

What the show is doing with all that remains to be seen.

I thought they were both Nightwalkers, but in Sam's first chapter, they seem to be different things.

The wights or wrights or however they are pronounced are dead, be it animals or people who the Others reanimate to increase the size of their army. They are undead so to speak. They may be controlled by the Others or still have some intelligence left in them. Wights can be killed by fire, which is why the Wildlings always burn their dead.


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Or is it just by their own weapons? I'm about 300 pages into Book 3, so if its something I'll find out later, don't tell me.

Thanks again.

I think I would've been fucking shocked if I didn't know what was coming, especially since dude took away the blade for a moment. Jaime's reaction was great too. It happened so fast, the pain probably wouldn't have registered immediately, then half a sec later came the screaming. Coupled with that ending song, it became somewhat humorous, but it still works, even though that scene was pretty tense in the book.

before they take Jaime's hand ...

The show carried it out in a way where you just aren't sure why this guy did that ... after seconds before showing regards for Brienne's besmirchedness presumably for a better ransom ...

and then he takes the hand of the son of the richest man in the land ...

so yeah ... motivations and all somewhat unconvincing so far on the show ...

filled with good actors.











I love the angle with meargery really driving a split between him and his mother. I don't remember that much with joffrey in the books more with his younger brother. also the queen of thorns and varys working together also throws a interesting twist on who exactely will be in the conspiracy to kill joffrey.

is the same giveaway Tywin explains to Arya last season.

But yeah, I get it now.

Poor Theon.

Payed the Iron Price, that Salty Motherfucker.

If I never read the books, I would assume that Daenerys and her army will arrive in Westeros by the end of this season. People are gonna be PISSED when season 5 finishes and she is still hanging around in Slavers Bay. There will be anger of LOST proportions when the stalling comes.

Nothing is as simple as it seems, things are about to get very complex for Daenerys Targaryen

Especially compared to everything that will happen in Westeros.

her arc is frustrating as hell after this....and she is ridiculously stupid

She only really starts fucking up after she banishes Jorah and decides to "rule" Meereen.

next season. It's not like each tv season has to be one book. They are jumping ahead on theon.

With as slow as he is, plus him getting so involved in the TV side of things, it'll be a miracle if we get Book 6 by 2015.

Nah, but seriously, you're right. They've said they're splitting Storm of Swords into two seasons, though I imagine it'll be like 2/3rds this season, the rest and some of book 4 next season.

Benioff and Weiss have also said that this season is last one where they introduce LOTS of new characters, and the cast the rest of the way out will be whoever isn't dead. So I imagine that means no Greyjoy clan and no Dornishmen, eliminating a large chunk of Book 4. Kind of a shame on some of the Dornishmen, 'cause I'd really like them to find a way to incorporate Oberyn Martell into this season or the next.

>If I never read the books, I would assume that Daenerys and
>her army will arrive in Westeros by the end of this season.
>People are gonna be PISSED when season 5 finishes and she is
>still hanging around in Slavers Bay. There will be anger of
>LOST proportions when the stalling comes.

i'm still mad
cause i was rip raring to go
and..
not
whomp whomp
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

in the middle of the worst summer vacation ever ...

>in the middle of the worst summer vacation ever ...

and i know theres going to be a oay off for that
thats going to be a strong dragon

or at least there better be a pay off for it

smh @ G RR M
~~~~
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~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

but that scene is going to be so epic.

>but that scene is going to be so epic.

My memory is probably off, but wasn't that in the fourth book? Someone please correct me.

That third book is pretty powerful. Interesting to see how HBO will treat Tyrion's travels after that event. Dude goes through a lot. His adventures were the sole bright spots while reading the fourth and fifth books. Well that and Theon's misadventures as well.

as quickly as possible ... or else they'll be introducing lots of other characters/hidden identities ... gonna get more confusing and fast.

Um, anyone else not so much feeling the changes made in that scene?

It seemed pretty consistent with how I remember it.

>It seemed pretty consistent with how I remember it.

Yea, I thought it was just a longer scene in the book.

just read that chapter.

And I remember Jon being much more new, like, when they were talking about where to put it, you thought he might really not know. Hence, "You know nothing, Jon Snow." is meant to more a jab ...

... and less precum.

“I know I want you," he heard himself say, all his vows and his honor all forgotten. She stood before him naked as her name day, and he was as hard as the rock around them. He had been in her half a hundred times by now, but always beneath furs, with others all around them. He had never seeen how beautiful she was. Her legs were skinny and well muscled, the hair at the juncture of her thighs a brighter red than that on her head. Does that make it even luckier? He pulled her close.

"I love the smell of you," he said. "I love your red hair. I love your mouth, and the way you kiss me. I love your smile. I love your teats." He kissed them, one and then the other. "I love your skinny legs, and what's between them." He knelt to kiss her there, lightly on her mound at first, but Ygritte moved her legs apart a little, and he saw the pink inside and kissed that as well, and tasted her.

She gave a little gasp. "If you love me all so much, why are you still dressed?" she whispered. "You know nothing, Jon Snow. Noth---oh. Oh. OHHH."

Afterward, she was almost shy, or as shy as Ygritte ever got. "The thing you did," she said, when they lay together on their piled clothes. "With your...mouth." She hesistated. "Is that...is it what lordss do to their ladies, down in the south?"

"I don't think so." No one had ever told Jon just what lords did with their ladies. "I only...wanted to kiss you there, that's all. You seemed to like it."

"Aye. I...I liked it some. No one taught you such?"

"There's been no one," he confessed. "Only you.”

guess that makes me Jon Snow.

If you only knew what is about to happen, you wouldn't be all like "I know! I'll get more men from the guy whose daughter I was supposed to marry, lulz", like that's a genius plan...

Love that last scene with Tywin and the kids. Cersei marrying Mace Tyrell is funnier but Loras works too. Jaime and Brienne was great as well.

>If you only knew what is about to happen, you wouldn't be all
>like "I know! I'll get more men from the guy whose daughter I
>was supposed to marry, lulz", like that's a genius plan...


Is that how The Red Wedding was initiated in the books? I read all five, but barely remember anything that occurred in them. As I was watching that scene, I was shaking my head as well though.

>>If you only knew what is about to happen, you wouldn't be
>all
>>like "I know! I'll get more men from the guy whose daughter
>I
>>was supposed to marry, lulz", like that's a genius plan...
>
>
>Is that how The Red Wedding was initiated in the books? I read
>all five, but barely remember anything that occurred in them.
>As I was watching that scene, I was shaking my head as well
>though.

Yes. They come back to the Twins for Edmure Tully's wedding to one of the Frey girls, then shit gets real

The set-up is a little different in the book. By the time Karstark kills the two Lannister kids and is beheaded, the Freys have already been marching with him, and then left. The Freys leaving is portrayed as much more damaging then the Karstarks.

Also, in the book Robb goes to Freys because he recognizes that he has to re-take the North from the Greyjoys, or else he can't really be the King of the North. The "I'm going to conquer Lannisport!" thing wasn't a major thing in the book; it more had to do with why he was pissed at Edmure for not letting Gregor Clegane cross into the Riverlands.

They were already in the territory wrecking shop. That's where Robb meets his wife who was a member of a lesser royal family under the Lannisters (which is what makes the Reigns of Castamere such a prescient song for the moment).

This is when they find out about Winterfell and decide to turn back. I think Robb might have split his army at some point too. A lot more was going on at Riverrun. And that's where Arya is heading with the Bros W/ No Banner.

>They were already in the territory wrecking shop. That's
>where Robb meets his wife who was a member of a lesser royal
>family under the Lannisters (which is what makes the Reigns of
>Castamere such a prescient song for the moment).

Robb and Brynden were indeed tearing through Lannister territory. Edmure was supposed to let Gregor Clegane and Tywin's men cross into the Riverlands so that they could chase Robb around the country-side and eventually trap them in-between both of their armies. Instead, Edmure turns Clegane back, so Tywin can lead his army, with the Tyrells back to King's Landing surprise Stannis. Tywin's army crosses the River, and King's Landing falls, and the War ends differently.

>This is when they find out about Winterfell and decide to turn
>back. I think Robb might have split his army at some point
>too. A lot more was going on at Riverrun. And that's where
>Arya is heading with the Bros W/ No Banner.

I think Edmure was the one who split the army. He sends Roose Bolton to retake Harrenhall. And then Roose switches sides and starts sending what he commands of Robb's army into situation where they'll get slaughtered (sparing his own bannermen, of course). Then when meeting to meet Robb at the Twins, he purposely takes his sweet time, allowing the rear guard (also Robb's men) to get slaughtered by Clegane.

>Is that how The Red Wedding was initiated in the books? I read
>all five, but barely remember anything that occurred in them.
>As I was watching that scene, I was shaking my head as well
>though.

idiot didn't marry who he said he was going to marry
pissed off the wrong folks
mind you dont nobody can stand the Freys and their weird asses
reminds me a bit of Crasters crazy behind
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

i know he got mad kids and all but still it seems like the freys are an A list power family when all indications are that they are not since no one wants to wed none of them.

But rather, for Robb's cause, they were very important for two reasons; 1) They have enough men to significantly augment Robb's decently sized crew 2) They are located at the vital bottleneck at the green fork of the trident river (which is why the fam is wealthy in the first place. They charge for crossing).

So Robb desperately needs them and the House of Tully desperately need them...and that puts the Freys in a relative position of power.

Also have a reputation for just not showing up at your party because of that.

which is why Robb underestimated
Stupidly...
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I was surprised with that bit, but it made sense after I thought about it, because there's no Edric Storm on the show, so Gendry will have to be the sacrifice that Davos saves. They seemed to have found the Brotherhood a bit too easily though...

How the hell did she even find them?!
I'm gonna chalk it up to her seeing it in the flames but even with that... pretty weak to me.

Especially since we know that her flame reading skills are kinda suspect.

even though other seasoned swordsmen and archers were standing right next to her. And where were the scouts?? But hey, if Melisandre can make Mance look like Rattleshirt, I'll just assume that she used similar tricks to get to their camp unscathed.

This is what I came here to sort out
I was like weren't there two and wasn't thus around the time when one....
Wait wayminute
Dammit

Also gentry seems older than I thought in the books
Although ironically he is supposed to seem older in the books lol


This does annoy me because I was
Looking forward to the edric storyline like Arya in a diff city
It became a respite like daenerys
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

why wasn't Rob stark squiring no where? Jamie lanister was squiring by that age fo' sure and he was the heir to a major family. Jon snow? Catelyn should of had him out there as a squire asap if she despised him so. If joffrey ever squired he may have been less of a mama's boy and had a chance of being a decent person or at least more human. R most kings knights by the time they are annoited?

the Starks keep the old Gods, so it's not apart of their family traditions... most Notherners don't follow those customs.

He wasn't squiring per se, but the custom of sending your child to be raised in another Lord's house was certainly upheld in the north. See Theon Greyjoy.



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Fostering has nothing to do with knighthood.
And Theon was a hostage (politely called a ward) taken to dissuade another Greyjoy uprising.

There's no more of Robb's lieutenants they can really kill during the Red Wedding, besides him. It would supremely piss me off if they do, since he's one of my favorite characters, and because he's obviously important in Book 4 (and by extension, he gives Jamie something to really do). I hope they do send him back to Riverrun on the show, but I doubt they will.

I thought Jaime was gonna push Locke down the bear pit as he was leaving, I guess it would've been too chaotic had that happened.

SMH @ Sansa: "How do you know all this? Did your mother teach you??"
Margaery: "...Yes, she did (ya big dummy)"

Although it's kind of nice that Margaery still talks to Sansa after her engagement with Tyrion. Don't think they spoke even once after Tywin played matchmaker in the book.

i had forgotten about shae doing tyrion dirty at his trial. that was some coldblooded shit. especially since her turn in the book is abrupt as fuck. they've telegraphed it on the show pretty obviously.

and reading the battle between the mountain and the viper ... ugh. another one of those moments in this series where, even knowing the outcome, you're hoping it changes the second time through. loved the red viper.

I've been wondering wondering where they've been or why they haven't been mentioned. They should be in Kings Landing now based on upcoming events right?

they come to kings landing early in SOS, but don't really do much in the foreground until the battle between the mountain and the viper. the tv show has separated the two weddings -- robb's and joffrey's -- for obvious reasons.

the queen of thorns has grown on me, but i fear the viper's casting and portrayal will likely be a let down for me.

I believe the Martell's come for Joffery's wedding. They were in Kind's Landing before the Red Wedding was happening at the Twins with the Freys.

Remember, Tyrion meets the Martell army and the reader are introduced to Prince Oberyn Martell aka the viper? I can wait to see his character.

I know both weddings happened in book 3, but what was the sequence. I assume the red wedding will go down in this show season and the joff's will happen next year?

In terms of disappointing castings, I think they've done a fantastic job, my least abortive was mellsandre (sp). She should be hotter

In the book it goes: Sansa/Tyrions wedding, the Red Wedding, then Joffrey's wedding. They haven't shown the Sansa/Tyrions wedding, so that might happen this EP. The Red Wedding is in the next episode, as it's titled "Rains of Castamere." I think they'll end the season with Joffrey's wedding, as they've been talking about it and preparing for it all damn season. It works best as an "Oh shit!" Moment at the end of the season, rather than working it into the beginning. But putting such huge "Oh shit!" Moments back to back may hurt things.

The season finale is called "Mhysa", so it may center around Dany winning at Yunkai. Also John getting back to the wall before Maynce's crew. Even if they do have Joffs wedding to end the season, there's still enough of the book to fill up next season: Jon defends the Wall, Tyrions trial, Arya and the Hound, Sansa and Littlefinger, Dany attacks Mereen, etc. and they could have some of the Book 4 stuff, should they choose.

I wish sansa wouldn't of knelt down for tyrion like she did in the book. I think Joffrey's wedding will open season 4.

>I wish sansa wouldn't of knelt down for tyrion like she did
>in the book. I think Joffrey's wedding will open season 4.

Yeah, I was leaning that way... but by showing the 3 slugs, it almost seems like dropping both to end the season might be the way to go... leaving it hanging over the off season would mean it will be spoiled to death and everyone will see it coming. Will be interesting. On the other hand squeezing both in might be too much "oh shit" in such a short period.

I like how even though we all know what will eventually happen, there is still mystery in watching the show episode/episode

Especially with the treatment of Tyrion. They even foreshadowed the ending with Cersei and Tyrion discussing how Joffrey tried to have him killed, and Tyrion saying that to poison him is the better way to do it. And the season would end with Tyrells having the upper hand again, after being seemingly cowed by Tywin (of course, they were plotting all along).

But yeah, you can't spend THIS much time talking about the event and not have it pay off this season.

I don't think they'll cram the whole wedding for ep 10. Plus they need to introduce the Martell characters (Prince Oberyn Martell)in a proper manner.

If they squeeze it in ep 10, than it might be a bit rushed.

There's just too much to squeeze in for two eps I think, especially with the RW happening next ep. Gotta have Joff gloating at Robb's death in the season finale. I just hope they'll keep the scene where Tyrion & Sansa gives Joffrey a book as a wedding present, and Joff cuts it up with a sword made from Ned's Ice.

It does kind of make sense for them to kill the three kings this season though, since we just saw Stannis throwing the leaches into the fire. Wonder if Balon's death will be on or off screen...

Yeah the Melisandre in my head is younger and more mysterious, although I don't mind the actress who plays her (especially when she's showing skin...)

because they haven't shown him at all this season (not that they've had reason to).

And also in the books, his death was a little ambiguous. None of the POV characters saw it, we just heard that a wave took him off one of those bridges. There's a lot of speculation that it might not have been so casual.

But I guess in the books it was left ambiguous as to whether or not Jeyne is pregnant, and the show took the liberty of informing us that she is. And Martin wrote that episode, so I wonder if that will turn out to be the case in the books too.

the bridge always moves
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Never noticed that ... what a subtle, nice touch.

The way things are ramping up right now, the Red Wedding next ep and Joffrey's wedding the last ep. The momentum is perfect right now, to separate the two events would be a big mistake IMO.

If they wait until next season it would have to be fairly early in the season, no?

There's still plenty of things that happen for next season. House Martell's introduction, Tyrion's trial, Zombie Cat, Arya over the narrow sea, Littlefinger & Sansa, Jon Snow back on the wall, Cersei v. Margaery, Dany in Mereen, all the Greyjoys, etc.

Remember that book 4 and the first half of book 5 overlap in the timeline. I'm interested to see how they do all of that

Upping this post off the 5th page in preparation for what is sure to be an epic night in television history. Interwebs bout to explode. Can't believe they made us wait 2 weeks.

I kinda wish I didn't read the book just for this moment of surprise - Ned's death shocked the hell out of me.
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Those last 5 minutes were incredible. Actress who plays Caetlyn Stark deserves an Emmy for that last scene. FOCK!

My heart was beating like a Laker playoff game. The pregnancy stabs had me shook.

I actually felt the final scene between Rickon and Bran was the best executed and most heartfelt of the episode. I can't say enough about the acting depth of that crew.

dusting putting away laundrey all that type of stuff while watching.

i still havent watched

i need to before tomm so i can see how it played out
i warned a coworker who was catching up
i was like catch up FAST
because welp
just catch up

he was like another Ned!?
i'm like er...just watch
do NOT miss an episode from here on in
the internet will ruin this for you
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

My heart is still racing. I can't even imagine being a non-book reader right now, I probably won't be able to go to work the next day, lol.

in the season finale

i wonder how thats gonna play out since Talisa died there too

What was the point of having Robb's wife at the wedding for the show!?!? In the book she stayed home.

When dude walked over and began stabbing her stomach I was like "Arrrrrrrrrrgh DAAAAMN, DAAAAAAAAAAAYMN!" It was a shock because it wasn't in the book. But knowing she was in the room meant death in my eyes.

Talisa was probably introduced just so they could kill her and up the ante ... not that it needed it. You have a point there.

to the Lannisters. So it made sense to keep her alive in the book. In the show, she's a girl out on her own. Keeping her around doesn't serve any purpose.

They didn't set the scene right. None of the paranoia is there, none of the uneasiness is there, the chaos of what's happening is missing. It feels like just a sequence of one-off events. Talisa on sceen, Talisa stabbed. Robb on screen, Robb shot. Catelynn on screen, Catelynn sliced. Eh.

The surprise was there... but man... they could've done that so much better. They should've had much longer scenes at the wedding... like it should've consumed most of the episode.

But it's not that I didn't enjoy it. But it could've been better executed imo.

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Episodes/Entry/The_Rains_of_Castamere/Book_Spoilers/

the band in the book is FUCKING TERRIBLE. there is some musicianship to them in order to allay some fear, but the din is unsettling. very loud and very bad. to me, after re-reading SoS, that is what ratchets up the tension of the wedding scene.

i think the red wedding in the book is far, far less telegraphed than that of the show. you end that chapter wanting to throw the book across the room. i'm unsure any show could have maneuvered it in such a way without completely alienating the audience. that is what made it so epic in your mind's eye and why you would think the television version didn't do it justice.

They can kill Sansa for all I care, but Job, Arya, Bran, and Ricon had ALL better fucking live and get that GOOD vengeance on everyone.

I love this shit but George had better not end this shit on any note that DOESN'T provide retribution or at least peace and safety for the Stark kids.

Normal themes (like redemption) don't often play out like we have come to expect. It's a realistic world and that's how he writes the books. Yeh, it often makes me kinda angry and uncomfortable, but that's the beauty of the series.

she's one of my favorites

Has ficked up, but she fucked up on such a monumental level that I don't even know if I should blame her or her parents for raising her to be so blind to human behavior. Not to mention she's got it worse than the rest. At least Eddard, Cat, and Robb have the peace of the grave. She's the prisoner and now newest member of the family that killed her parents and brother.

she did fuck up, but so did Ned. and Cat. and Robb. and they were all much older and supposedly wiser. Joffrey fucked up too -- killing Ned wasn't endorsed by any of the other Lannisters.


(SPOILERS to follow; reading your reply I'm not sure if you've gotten through all the books).




Sansa has been through years of shit, assumes her entire family is dead, but is still going. she's getting smarter (although not to a point where she can out-scheme Littlefinger), and is in a position to be queen of The Vale and reunite Winterfell.

They've just killed three of the most prominent "good guys" in brutal, heart-rending fashion. If they end it before the wedding, the "bad guys" will have clearly won two seasons in a row.

Shoot, they've ended two seasons in a row with the "bad" Lannisters happy and sitting on top of the world. To end this season with them unscathed would be kind of ridiculous.

It can't end with the Black Fish going back to the Riverlands to preserve the Tully name (notice that he didn't die during the feast. Saved by his bladder).

It can't end with Dany ready to march on Mereen as the "Mhysa" of the people. They've done that twice too.

It can't end with Stannis resolving to become a King who cares about the people more than his title.

It can't end with Bran and crew crossing the Wall while Samwell and Gilly going the opposite direction.

It can't end with Jon Snow making it back to the Wall. And readying what's left of the Watch for the oncoming attack. That may be the second to last scene.

It has to end with Joffrey poisoned, writhing on the floor, ripping his own throat out. It's the only way to give the audience some true satisfaction.

>It has to end with Joffrey poisoned, writhing on the floor,
>ripping his own throat out. It's the only way to give the
>audience some true satisfaction.

I think some optimism is definitely needed though. I think the season will end with Arya boarding a ship to Essos.

>I think some optimism is definitely needed though. I think the
>season will end with Arya boarding a ship to Essos.

It's different for us that have read the books, because for us everything has been building toward the Red Wedding. But as a season of a television show, everything's been building towards Joffrey and Margery getting married. It's a central plot point of damn near every episode, and it's driven all the action in King's Landing. It pays off Tyrion, Sansa, Cersei, Tywin, and the Tyrell's story-lines this season.


>I think some optimism is definitely needed though. I think the
>season will end with Arya boarding a ship to Essos.

I could see them working that in. But I don't think it happens until next season.

>It's different for us that have read the books, because for
>us everything has been building toward the Red Wedding. But as
>a season of a television show, everything's been building
>towards Joffrey and Margery getting married. It's a central
>plot point of damn near every episode, and it's driven all the
>action in King's Landing. It pays off Tyrion, Sansa, Cersei,
>Tywin, and the Tyrell's story-lines this season.

This is where I'm at with it. They've discussed wedding so much. I don't see how they hold this off until next season.

>They've just killed three of the most prominent "good guys"
>in brutal, heart-rending fashion. If they end it before the
>wedding, the "bad guys" will have clearly won two seasons in a
>row.
>
>
>It has to end with Joffrey poisoned, writhing on the floor,
>ripping his own throat out. It's the only way to give the
>audience some true satisfaction.



Americans as an audience just aren't ready for that

Shoot IM not
That why I'm giving up on the following
That comeuppance was bull

I'm ready for this because I've read the series several times
I stay tense taut and braced when reading a new book from him


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and have joffry's death come in the in the opening scene of season 4. I don't think the wedding is going to be in the finale at all. probably episode 2 of next season.

I think its going to end with john finding yingrid (SP?) dead from one of his arrows. Or the fire squad breathing life into cat.

>I think its going to end with john finding yingrid (SP?) dead
>from one of his arrows. Or the fire squad breathing life into
>cat.

yep i can see that happening

>I think its going to end with john finding yingrid (SP?) dead
>from one of his arrows.

Ending it with Ygritte's death is ending the season with even more tragedy. The Red Wedding's gotta be the tragic high point for the season.

>Or the fire squad breathing life into cat.

Personally I hope they don't show this on-screen. Maybe the Brotherhood discovering the body, but not Beric giving his life to bring her back. Save that reveal for the Season 4 finale, just to make it truly shocking.

they havent introduced the Red Viper yet

Red Viper has to meet Tyrion in order to be his champion

this series was never gonna please american audiences

lol theyre thinking daenarys is going back to westeros next season

With how they've been altering things slightly, I don't think Oberyn has to be around before Joff dies. He doesn't do much up until that point. All the conversations he has with Tyrion can occur while he's imprisoned or at trial.

I hope they do it now. Introduce the whole House Martell next season. After last night's episode it would be the PERFECT finale.

It's not like the show doesn't have a history of introducing characters later than they should be and still making it work.

They could bring him in as a special member of the tribunal to judge Tyrion. Or as someone who comes to King's Landing to be the new suitor for Cersei's hand. But then he reveals that his true motivation is to punish those responsible for the death of his sister. Not hard at all.

>lol theyre thinking daenarys is going back to westeros next
>season

This is true. As said above, people are going to be pissed when she spends the next season or two hanging around Mereen being a bureaucrat.

How many seasons do you peoples see HBO dedicated to both books? 4 seasons, 5 seasons, 6 seasons?

http://io9.com/game-of-thrones-will-end-with-season-7-according-to-pr-508275905


Game of Thrones will end with season 7, according to producer
ROB BRICKEN
5/17/13 12:25pm

We've all been wondering how the Game of Thrones TV show will end. Will George R.R. Martin finish the book series in time? Will HBO try to pad it out? Will it be canceled? Now we have an answer — assuming all goes well. the show will last seven seasons, according to producer Frank Doelger.
From Rolling Stone:

" is being discussed as we speak. The third season was the first half of book three, season four will be the second part of book three. . . George R.R. Martin has written books four and five; six and seven are pending," Doelger told Radio Times at the BAFTA Awards last weekend. "I would hope that, if we all survive and if the audience stays with us, we'll probably get through to seven seasons."

This is absolutely a good thing, but the gent at Rolling Stone worries about cramming the events of the fourth and fifth books, A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons, into one season. I wouldn't worry; the show will almost certainly use some of AFfC and ADwD's storylines in season 4, to make sure all the main characters have a story arc; more to the point, AFfC and ADwD are essentially one long book, oddly separated, and are mostly a repositioning of the pieces (if you will) for the final act.

I have little doubt that it can be streamlined, especially given how well D.B. Weiss and David Benioff have been at creating new storylines for the season that still resonates with GRRM's original work. I have zero doubt they'll have all the characters where they need to be, physically and emotionally, once season 6 begins, even if they take different paths to get there.

Honestly, the biggest problem in my opinion is that I'm 100% certain there's no chance in hell that GRRM finishes the series in less than three books. Any one care to bet against me?

>Honestly, the biggest problem in my opinion is that I'm 100%
>certain there's no chance in hell that GRRM finishes the
>series in less than three books. Any one care to bet against
>me?

esp considering book six will be focused on the north (above the wall north)
and he plans on doing that in two books
and wrapping up westeros??

really?


i'm SO not buying it

also i'll be 60 when he finishes
and while HBO shows last
they aint lasting no twenty years
and he takes WAY too long to write
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

They'll probably eliminate everything about the extended Greyjoy family (except maybe Asha/Yara) and much of everything happening in Dorne. They could probably axe the Samwell stuff as well, but MArtin hasn't really indicated where that's going.

They'll probably take what's left (Cersei, Jamie, Arya, Sansa, and Brienne) and spread it out over the fifth season, integrating it with the "important" stuff in the fifth book (Tyrion, Jon, Dany, and Theon). Hopefully by then, Martin will have written Book 6.

>They'll probably eliminate everything about the extended
>Greyjoy family (except maybe Asha/Yara) and much of everything
>happening in Dorne. They could probably axe the Samwell stuff
>as well, but MArtin hasn't really indicated where that's
>going.
>
>They'll probably take what's left (Cersei, Jamie, Arya, Sansa,
>and Brienne) and spread it out over the fifth season,
>integrating it with the "important" stuff in the fifth book
>(Tyrion, Jon, Dany, and Theon). Hopefully by then, Martin will
>have written Book 6.

But how do you know the stuff you're willing to throw out won't be rehashed or cause events to occur in the sixth book? I was think HBO would have liberty to mix up the chronology of how they shoot scenes for the fourth and fifth books since they are both occurring at the same time more or less if I remember right.


Also, is the sixth book the last book for the series?

>But how do you know the stuff you're willing to throw out
>won't be rehashed or cause events to occur in the sixth book?
>I was think HBO would have liberty to mix up the chronology of
>how they shoot scenes for the fourth and fifth books since
>they are both occurring at the same time more or less if I
>remember right.

Well, Martin has said he's told Benioff and Weiss some of the major plot points/developments that will happen in the story. I figure from there they can determine which characters/storylines they feel are "necessary" to keep and which aren't. The writers have said earlier that this is the last season that they introduce so many characters at once, and that the remaining seasons deal with the characters still around at the end of this season. Which is why I doubt we're going to see all the Greyjoys. And really, do they need to spend parts of three episodes determining who becomes the new leader of the Iron Born? That's why I think they're keeping Yara and that's about it.

>Also, is the sixth book the last book for the series?

He's said there are season. But, as said throughout this thread, I think it'll be a fucking miracle if he finishes it in 7. We're talking eight books at least.

Victarion and that horn have to be introduced

i can see them cutting WAY back on Dorne though

>Victarion and that horn have to be introduced
>
>i can see them cutting WAY back on Dorne though

A lot still happens at Dorne. Gotta have Prince Oberyn, Doran and Arianne at least. Arianne's incident with Myrcella and what results can be a good opportunity to explain what happened to the Targaryens and can tie into Dany's plot. Red Viper shows up, dies, Martell revenge plot on the Lannisters begins. I think it was someone on here that suggested they have Arianne come to Kings Landing instead of Oberyn's squeeze. Don't really need to flesh out the Sand Snakes for tv. She can go back to Dorne after he dies and set the Myrcella plot into motion.

I hope the Greyjoy plot isn't giving too much screen. Maybe cut Damphair. Euron and Victarion have to be introduced at some point I guess. Idk I just never cared much for what was going on over there.

>
>I hope the Greyjoy plot isn't giving too much screen. Maybe
>cut Damphair. Euron and Victarion have to be introduced at
>some point I guess. Idk I just never cared much for what was
>going on over there.

But I can see the, skipping most of that too, since they've already set up the Tyrells as the family scheming against the Lannister rule. Having two families serving that function, even if they're also the enemies of the Tyrells, might seem redundant on TV.

And I think the finale showed about as many of the Greyjoys as we're gonna see. Wouldn't count on Deephair, Euron, or Victarion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCsx8hx3LN0

Winds of Winter 1500 pages.

Didn't make any indication of more than 7 books.

Says he knows how it will end in broad terms.

It's possible the show may end a little different.

YES
lol
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Is he hinting one of the characters who died on the show (I'm guessing Jeyne, if anyone) plays a role in the ending? Or I'm just reading too much into a general comment.

someone pop off in there with something stupid or was it getting too big? the latter seems dumb considering there is only one(?) episode left.

Kind of sucks. But hey, the forum I mod still isn't back online.

will proceed after next season. I don't think tv viewers are gonna be down with Dany chillen back east for 2 more seasons.


the last two books really don't move the plot along all that much. there are subplots that really do nothing like that quintin storyline. jon lets wilding through the wall 2 times. Is theon gonna be tortured for 2 more seasons? 2 seasons for bran to reach the crow?

I guess I am just salty now cause of the 1000 cliff hangers. I wish I would of waited til the series was completed to begin reading.

And like you said, nothing much happens ...

So it makes the most sense at this point that they put it all into one season for the show.

>And like you said, nothing much happens ...
>
>So it makes the most sense at this point that they put it all
>into one season for the show.

i was telling a coworker because they were like they cant take much more...

i'm like um...dont worry
no really stuff happens after this but not like it has been have no idea what they are going to do because yeah the last too books lots of backstory
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

It seems that on the show Shae really loves Tyrion, whereas in the books it never appeared that way, at least that was my impression. Guess they're setting it up so that her betrayal will hurt Tyrion a lot more?

Also Asha didn't give two shits about Theon in the books, not sure if I like where they're going with this. Wonder if they'll start incorporating ADWD stuff in the next season already.

And yeah, that last scene was cheesy as hell.

>Also Asha didn't give two shits about Theon in the books, not
>sure if I like where they're going with this. Wonder if
>they'll start incorporating ADWD stuff in the next season
>already.

I wouldn't say that much. She did come to Winterfell to get Theon to leave. Also Asha's reaction when they reunited when she was with Stannis and Co. They're not BFFs but that's still her brother.

>I wouldn't say that much. She did come to Winterfell to get
>Theon to leave. Also Asha's reaction when they reunited when
>she was with Stannis and Co. They're not BFFs but that's still
>her brother.

I just think that risking her life to go and attempt a rescue mission is going a bit far. I remember in AFFC she was all like "Theon's probably dead by now...meh, so about this Kingsmoot..." She definitely wouldn't be this rash in the books. She's supposed to be smarter and knows that the Ironborn are at a disadvantage when fighting on land.

while i appreciate her caring more than in the books

its a bit over played but i guess they have to get her positioned
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

but there were a few minor references to future book events that could be construed as spoilers.

Great longform read from 2011 before the show and Dance with Dragons came out. Lots of stuff on how rabid his fans became, some of the thought processes behind the books and his lifestyle in general.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/04/11/110411fa_fact_miller?currentPage=all

yeah...i dont agree


http://twitchfilm.com/2013/06/destroy-all-monsters-hbos-game-of-thrones-is-better-than-the-books.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TwitchEverything+%28Twitch%29




The show's better than the books. What seemed like a creative impossibility only two seasons ago is now as plain as the lack of nose on Tyrion Lannister's face. By the conclusion of season three of Game of Thrones, which has been the marvelous series' most marvelous season yet, series showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss are doing a better job telling George R.R. Martin's story than George R.R. Martin did. Spoiler warning: they're going to beat him to the end, too.

(Martin takes a producer credit on Game of Thrones and has written one episode per season of the show. He also provides guidance to the production team. The showrunners, Benioff and Weiss, retain the final creative word on the production of Game of Thrones, and I will regard them as the architects of the series' overall strengths and weaknesses.)

There are easy and obvious ways that screen adaptation can trump the written word. It is altogether more viscerally disturbing, for example, to follow a young boy up a castle wall only to come upon a brother and sister having a doggie-style fuck, than it is to read about it from the boy's (limited, underage) point of view. But there are also significant areas where the word will always win, particularly in worldbuilding; the producers of Game of Thrones can imagine it for you wholesale, but when you're reading a book and picturing the realms of Westeros in your head, you're getting top-market retail.

At ten episodes per season, and a budget that is record-breaking for television while still being a pittance next to, say, those Hobbit films, the first season of Game of Thrones evinced a kind of narrative strangulation that made it a promising, but highly frustrating, watch. Season one hit all the requisite beats from Martin's book, and set the paradigm for seasons to come (watch out for episode 9, every single time), but man, it felt frumpy. I remember looking at a shot in the third or fourth episode, where two armoured soldiers had been placed conspicuously on a hill in the deep background, and realizing that they were likely the only two armoured soldiers the episode's budget could afford.

Budget isn't storytelling, though, and the first season allowed Benioff and Weiss (and importantly, their revolving team of directors, most notably Alan "Thor 2" Taylor) to figure out how and where to spend their limited budget to conjure the larger Westerosi world, while simultaneously breaking in their characters, which is where the real money is anyway. "The North Remembers," the first episode of the second season of Game of Thrones, is a marvel of character development and worldbuilding, dancing across the Seven Kingdoms like a Braavosi swordsman to reestablish all of the series' major characters, plotlines, and locales. The episode essentially served, brilliantly, as a one-hour dramatized version of the show's deft opening credits, and announced that Game of Thrones could, and would, be as big as Martin's vast ecosystem of people and places needed it to be.

As big as needed, then, but only as big as needed. This is where Benioff and Weiss's adaptation begins to win when compared against the novels. The show's writers are cutting a cleaner line through the story than Martin did. Admire the heaps of blubberous fat that have been excised from Bran's discovery of his warg powers, a throughline which develops incrementally over the course of two or three of the books, but which manifests, in the series, in a single merciful episode.

In a masterful sequence from "The Rains of Castamere," Bran spontaneously mind-walks into Hodor, Summer, and Shaggydog, while Jon Snow's conflict with the wildlings bubbles over outside, uniting three of the sons of Ned Stark through action and clever overlapping construction. The edited scene brings Bran, Rickon and Jon together in a manner that the novel strives for and fails. The television writers also smartly push the final beat of Jon and Ygritte's separation into the following episode, teasing out the schism and allowing Jon to prove that he does, at last, know something.

Of course, much of all this is the natural improvement that comes of being a second draft. Benioff and Weiss have the foresight of some 8,000 existent pages of the novels, from which to survey and critique Martin's narrative strategy. Martin himself is likely just as aware of the flaws as the rest of us. At this point I think we all need to divorce ourselves from the disturbing popular delusion that content creators of any stripe (be they Martin, Tolkien, Lindelof or Lucas) begin a fantasy project of any scale with a complete picture of where the story will go.

But Martin has no goddamned idea where he's going, as is clear from books 4 and 5 of A Song of Ice and Fire, which expend so much narrative energy (and page count) keeping fruitless plotlines spinning that reading them becomes somewhat like getting stuck in the recursive time loop from Star Trek: The Next Generation's episode "Cause and Effect."

Benioff and Weiss, on the other hand, do know where they're going - they're even reported to know where Martin's ending will ultimately take the characters - and in addition to cutting away the mountains of wasted narrative that entomb A Song of Ice and Fire's back half, they are in a position to make smarter choices about character. So, for example, we get a single character (Gendry) standing in for the multiplicity of Baratheon bastards that populate the novels, which doesn't just give us the opportunity to hang out with Joe Dempsie's abs for more than an episode or two, but means that when the Red Woman is threatening to burn him up like a leech to ensure Stannis' ascension to the Iron Throne, we actually give a fuck.

What all of this amounts to is a kind of breathability in the television storytelling that doesn't exist in the books. We're allowed to watch the characters behave in more complex, human ways than the simple rote of the novels. My favourite episode of season three is "Walk of Punishment," the one where Jaime loses his hand, and the first episode of the show to be directed by one of the showrunners themselves (Benioff). It's a damned weird episode, because it evinces a sense of casual, even frivolous, invention around the text - with beats like the Small Council's game of musical chairs (a literal game of thrones, if you will), or more memorably, Bronn and Tyrion grilling Podrick about the powers of his Magic Penis.

The series has a kind of metatextual sense of humour about itself that isn't entirely earned, and is based in part on the secret language of the fan base, but which makes for an altogether more engaging storytelling style. It's a sweeping TV story that can feel surprising and emotionally rich, even to those of us who already know what is going to happen. The casual handling of the fully-built Westerosi world in "Walk of Punishment," alongside the confident delivery of the novels' required plot points, seemed to me to suggest that the showrunners of Game of Thrones had moved full-time into Martin's world and announced "We're in charge here now." (Or, if you like, "The Mad King is dead!") The hard cut to a rock n' roll cover of "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" as soon as Jaime's hand comes off at the end of the episode was a punky middle finger to the bearded Old God who created the song of ice and fire.

(We've come to a point where the only thing I miss - besides Khal Drogo, of course, on a weekly basis - is Martin's attention to the "prequel" story, which the author was able to pay over the course of his five novels and which - Jaime's bathtime confession notwithstanding - is largely missing from the television series. Although, based on Sunday's numbers, if HBO has any sense they're already commissioning a mini-series about Robert's rebellion and the fall of the Targaryens right now.)

In a way, Benioff and Weiss are winning the game of thrones because they are, essentially, writing the fan-fiction version of the novels. This season, for example, their addition of the Theon torture plotline is much more than a simple gambit to keep Alfie Allen in the show (whereas Theon vanishes for the entirety of books 3 and 4). The invented plotline also allows the showrunners to force contrition into Theon's mouth for all the awful shit he did in season two. Sure, it qualifies as shameless license taken with the source material, but on a fan level, it's not just enjoyed, it's positively required: once Theon successfully unseated Joffrey as the Biggest Asshole in the Seven Kingdoms, the audience deserved some catharsis. Like Daenerys freeing the slaves, benevolent Benioff and Weiss prove mother to us all.

This is all perhaps best exemplified by Benioff and Weiss' most significant deviation from the books: Talisa Maegyr, wife of Robb Stark, who is plotted as a major character in seasons two and three, and who does not exist in Martin's work. Talisa takes the place of Jeyne Westerling, an offscreen wife in the novels, who is shotgun-wedded to Robb after a one night stand. Now, the one night stand thing is agreeable enough as a line into Robb's character, and it pairs Robb with his father Ned, who also had an indiscreet evening outside his vows of honour; but if Robb doesn't much care for his bride, then neither do we.

Talisa, on the other hand - deliciously portrayed by Oona Chaplin - makes us care. Benioff and Weiss write her as a compelling addition to the Stark camp throughout his war on the Lannisters - third part of a triangle which was previously only a double act between Robb and Catelyn - and then add further stakes (as if they were needed) to the Red Wedding by placing Talisa in the fray.

Here, the synergy of the series' adaptation of the books reaches a superb, if nauseating, peak: an invented character, avatar of an invented love story, pregnant with an invented baby, stabbed in the invented belly, all in the midst of a glorious (and largely faithful) adaptation of the novels' single greatest narrative turn. Robb must watch his wife die - as do we all - and Talisa's bleeding stomach becomes the visceral, cinematic incarnation of the death of the King in the North's whole mission. It is also, in ruthlessly effective visual storytelling, the death of our faith in the Starks' ultimate victory over the series' ostensible antagonists in the overarching story; it's the death of our belief that Game of Thrones will be a nice story that treats us the way we expect fantasy to treat us. All with a character whose name has never graced a single printed page.

At this point, Martin should hand the last two novels over to Benioff and Weiss - or as will more likely be the case, we should just wait for the series to wrap up the saga while the mooted sixth and seventh books in A Song of Ice and Fire remain a cluster of disorganized notes somewhere in the tower of George R.R. Martin's Santa Fe home. The TV show has the baton and isn't just running with it; it's soaring, like Dracarys, up into the clear blue sky.


Destroy All Monsters is a weekly column on Hollywood and pop culture.
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

a condensed, concurrent TV version of the next two books would be better than chapter after chapter of Damphair and Cersei.

I like the Martells a lot tho. their grudge against the Lannisters and alliance with the Targaryens is one of the books' most interesting threads.

possibly

the last two books simply didn't pack the wallop
so i'm curious as to how they plan to

now THAT will show me hey the series delivered something the books couldnt


right now its plus and minuses on both ends
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

the battle between the Night's Watch and Mance Rayder's Wildling army at Castle Black. It will be directed by the same guy that did the "Blackwater" episode.

http://io9.com/game-of-thrones-hires-neil-marshall-again-for-the-seaso-677126570

Game of Thrones hires Neil Marshall again for the season 4 finale
ROB BRICKEN
Yesterday 7:00am

Neil Marshall, director of The Descent, Centurion, Doomsday, and most notably the epic Game of Thrones episode "Blackwater," has signed on to direct the final installment of season 4. As fans who've read the books and have surmised what he'll be filming can tell you, this is A Very Good Thing.

Mild spoilers (although even TV-only viewers should know this is coming): Marshall has confirmed the final episode of season 4 will be the battle between the Night's Watch and Mance Rayder's Wildling army at Castle Black. Seeing as "Blackwater" was so insanely awesome, I'd say we're in for a treat — especially because, as Empire reports, Marshall directed "Blackwater" at the last minute, while he has months to prepare for this episode.

Unless they make Jon become LC before the battle, I guess...

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18td2uanp4qtajpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18td2vk1gbbxzjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

http://io9.com/george-r-r-martin-this-is-what-the-iron-throne-really-721293015

And it makes so much more sense since people are always cutting themselves on the damn throne. And the constant mention of the stairs leading to the throne.
The second one's "spikes" are way too big to be swords.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Dunk_and_Egg

I just finished the first one (The Hedge Knight), it's good stuff, I like the self-contained nature of the story, and there are no cliffhangers by the time it's over. It's set 90 years or so before the events of the main series. There is a very minor link between the two, if you've read the 4th book you might already know what it is...

and keep reading

i think theres a pretty strong link between the series

You were right, the link is quite strong even if the stories are two generations apart, the Targaryens have a very interesting history. We need more info on Bloodraven dammit!

they appear to be out of print, and ridiculously priced ($70+) on Amazon.

Wouldn't mind reading these to get a fix given that GRRM is taking A GOT DAMN DECADE to finish Winds of Winter.

Varys, stays illing.
Glad, Dany lived. Loved how her story ended.
Back with her real peeps.
Barristan, bout to ride the pale mare. Flinging corpses.
Jon? Lord of Light.
Poor Wun Wun.
Loved, Cersei's arc.
The Tyrion chapters were aight.
Victarion, on the come-up.
Connington. Badass.

Mereen, post Drogon, was captivating stuff.

#fact

"Guitar Smash"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5vw9RTVky4

He gonna strike while the iron is hot.

Live. Don't die pre-completion.

Should I wait until the tv series is over before I go back and relive it with the books?

Part of me doesn't want to wait but the other part doesn't want to ruin what has been an amazing tv experience.

It's a tough decision.

This search engine isn't exactly easy to navigate...

Shame because it contained post-Red Wedding reactions which are always great to read. As for reading the books or not, I read everything after season 1 because I didn't want to risk reading spoilers online. I still love the TV series though.

>Shame because it contained post-Red Wedding reactions

I've been asked the question you posed numerous times and I've told each that I sincerely believe that reading the books is more than worthwhile. I just finished my re-read of the seriathens so many parts were still captivating to me.

books it is.

generally speaking, I find it more entertaining to watch how a book is depicted in film/tv then the other way around.

honestly the books took something out of S2 and S3 for me (although I prefer S1 to the book). perhaps luckily, however, the 4th book is the least consistent so you may yet prefer the TV version even after you finished. the 5th book has some shocking moments, but again, I could see the TV adaptation editing it down better.

Although I wasn't feeling Brienne's chapters at first, I am pissed at how her character was handled. She went through all that shit to find Sansa for Catelyn and THAT is how she's repaid????

I'm about to start the 5th book hoping Brienne was saved somehow, but that shit hurt my feelings.

last word was. He answered.

So you can click reply with quote if you want to know.

nm

If you download the World of Ice and Fire app from iTunes store or Google Play store, there is a Tyrion POV chapter from Winds of Winter

with 2015 being a best-case scenario for Winds of Winter -- and even that I doubt -- this series won't be finished until the next decade (if that).

I started reading this shit in 1998. I could have fathered a kid in back then that is getting ready for college before this series finishes.

i laugh bitterly at folks talking about the book better come soon


ha i say HA!


all you can do is distract yourself with other series and other shows and wait for fucking winter
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

I said I wasn't gonna read any more sample chapters... but for some reason I read that one.

Arya is planning her moves carefully. Great read.

Ties in nicely with the season premiere.

I'm holding on to all this info with no one to discuss it with. They really set this season up nicely. Loved the introduction to the Red Viper.

How do you guys feel about them reintroducing Sir Dontos back into the picture because we haven't seen him in the show since the start of season 2 and briefly in the Blackwater episode but this is the first actual interaction he's had with Sansa. I'm sure they'll make it work but in the books that relationship was built up for a good bit. They could probably skip through all of that. Obviously the necklace is taking the place of the hairnet. It looks like Joffrey's wedding is next week probably and that may be the end of the episode with the reception/feast taking place in the 3rd episode. In the books I kinda felt some type of way about Petyr burning Dontos alive when he delivered Sansa but he might be more of a throwaway character in the show.

Shae's attitude was notable, at first I thought she was going to take the place of the Dontos character and smuggle Sansa out given her knowledge of boats but that would have totally undermined Tyrion's storyline so I'm glad that has been brought back to the timeline.

We did see Sandor Clegane get cut during that battle at the end, it was kind of quick but it was clear that he got cut and took beating even though it looked like he was OK at the end of the episode. But he "died" of infection like Khal Drogo so I'm guessing that he's not long for this world.

All in all I'm glad the show is back and I bet this season will go down as the best yet!

That boat scene to me was about Littlefinger's ruthlessness, so it shouldn't be hard to convey that in the show.

Shae's character is quite different to her book counterpart I think. She seems to really care for Tyrion and even Sansa on the show, whereas she was just in it for the money & prestige in the books. Wasn't shocking at all that she betrayed him in the trial. Looks like she'll be getting blackmailed by Cersei on the show.

I wonder if Jaime and Tyrion will meet up before they were supposed to. I think Jaime and Brienne arrived way later in the books (after the wedding?)

Yea Jamie and Brienne arrived after Joffrey died but I think in the show it will hold more weight on the character of Jamie that he couldn't protect Joffrey while being there still on the Kingsguard. Not that he could have against poison anyway but that will call more into question his ability to be an effective soldier and he will probably either leave with Brienne or go on his journey sooner because he may not be allowed to protect Tommen.

just bought it yesterday and it's really beautiful. I can't wait to get into it. Crazy thing is, I feel like this world is so immense, there'll have to be other volumes.

I preordered on Amazon because they had it at a 50% discount.
It's pretty cool. Beautiful art. I was disappointed by Sothoroyos. Casterly Rock is insane.

Jon Snow's Head May Have Confirmed A Terrible Game Of Thrones Spoiler



http://io9.com/jon-snows-head-may-have-confirmed-a-terrible-game-of-th-1677974342?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Um, I can't even report this news without it being a spoiler for those who know certain things about the Game of Thrones TV show, the A Song of Ice and Fire book series, or even just one pertinent behind-the-scenes fact. Do not read unless you want news that could destroy one of GoT's most popular fan theories.

I'm sorry to be so dramatic about this, but this honestly could be huge.



so click if you dare
the comment section cracked me up because it feels a bit overblown
kudos if dude is right though
but
lol!


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When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
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You cannot hate people for their own good.