7 episodes this go round

Then the last 7 next year

And yes, it all counts as 1 season, and no, I don't know why

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

>7 episodes this go round
>
>Then the last 7 next year
>


the fuck? not THIS shit again

>7 episodes this go round
>
>Then the last 7 next year




Dons entrance was fantastic

Now

Why the hell did Peggy and don breakdown?

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>Dons entrance was fantastic

Reminded me of Jackie Brown

Felt like another dream sequence... or a spy movie. I dug it

but when she was silent again it came back, briefly.

LOL

I rewound that back three times and still couldn't get it, he opens the door for her and she says something then walks back over to the driver side.

but it deflated Don's balloon whatever it was.

or "I don't want to move the seat again" or some shit.

It was clearly dubbed in, not because the performance of the actress was bad, but most likely because the original audio wasn't picked up cleanly, since they're shooting outside.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

Anyway, I watched again last nite to be sure I had it right ... and they did a bad job dubbing it in too. It's really hard to make out even when you're trying.

His wife's in Cali and they're clearly losing touch, he has no job and can't even admit it (I mean, he's pitching via proxy with Freddie) and it seems like the world's leaving him behind. He didn't even go for that lady next to him on the plane.

Peggy I think might just be eternally frustrated by bumping against the glass ceiling, having to work for a guy who doesn't even seem to care and dealing with obnoxious tenants.

i mean damn don
i get it
but damn
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

b/c AMC and/or the show's producers are GREEDY AS SHIT. and b/c as was pointed out on CBS Sunday Morning - this is the new trend in entertainment. it happens in movies and TV - final installments of successful franchises split in 2 pieces released a yr apart. it's been going on since at least The Sopranos and Sex & the City on TV and continued through Breaking Bad. it happened w/the Harry Potter movies and continues through The Hunger Games. and on and on.

other than money, it's also about being able to win an extra set of award trophies...which is also about money, of course. and bragging rights, i guess.

it's about $$ and ego.

The "don't know why" I was actually referring to was the inevitable question of why it all counts as 1 season

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

split a movie into two movies you get two rounds at the box office. split a season into two seasons you still have the same number of eps to gain advertising revenue from. it's true that the buzz of the show lasts longer, you can enjoy two awards seasons instead of one but how much money are they making off that? i thought the real loot came from the advertising revenue of the show.

and maybe they can charge a premium for both or either b/c it's the show's final season.

instead of selling Mad Men ad space from like January 2014 through May 2014, they get to sell it from April 2014 - May 2014 and April 2015 through May 2015. ad space costs more during the May sweeps period, i think. they get to sell that premium space 2x instead of 1x.

i think.

(And the building looked like Canter's to me)

I don't wanna see Campbell win per se... but he's so fun to watch when he thinks (or wants YOU to think) he's winning.

Looking tan and smug with sweater tied around his neck, so satisfied with the idea of eating an orange straight off of a tree. Dude is living what he at least thinks is the dream.

It doesn't speak well of Don that he thinks Pete is dressed like a hippie though. Just when you think he can't get more out of touch...

>(And the building looked like Canter's to me)

So it wasn't just me? That was Canter's, right? It would make sense, if for no other reason due to its proximity to the Tarpits.

and i think that was supposed to be Canter's. i caught it when Pete whispered about the bagels being horrible.

but the Brooklyn Avenue is a signature sandwich at Canter's so yeah I think it was supposed to be.

Just a few years ago?

Maybe he was being sarcastic. We was kinda lowkey trolling Los Angeles with his responses and facial expressions the whole time he was out there so it's possible.

>It doesn't speak well of Don that he thinks Pete is dressed
>like a hippie though. Just when you think he can't get more
>out of touch...

Will Don drink himself to death? Toss himself off the balcony? My money's on coyote attack, personally.

>My money's on coyote attack, personally.

>Toss himself off the
>balcony?

Just like the opening credits.

I need a gif of his earring toss #FAIL.

I wanna say I'm surprised that Roger has completely gone off the rails (moreso than even Don), but this pretty much is in keeping with his character. His befuddlement at how to react to his daughter's apology was fairly great. BTW, she's in a cult right?

And I find it brilliant that Don's first real "Draper pitch" since I wanna say Season 3 came out of the mouth of Freddie Rumsen. A little we know he's got his mojo back.

for some reason i thought he'd regain his sight eventually...didn't seem like he got shot straight in the eye. they fattened him up a bit too to show how stressed he is...dude is hating life right now which kinda sucks to watch. he was so much happier when he was winning as a regular salesmen and writing his pieces on the side.

last season's finale. So it's not like a ton of time has passed. I'm sure the eye patch will be gone eventually but I'd expect an eye patch to remain necessary for up to 2+ months following an injury like that. Especially in 1968/69.

>I wanna say I'm surprised that Roger has completely gone off
>the rails (moreso than even Don), but this pretty much is in
>keeping with his character. His befuddlement at how to react
>to his daughter's apology was fairly great. BTW, she's in a
>cult right?

And will somehow wind up at Roger's hippie orgy commune later on in the season. It could still be a cult situation. Roger might be the leader and not even know it.

I will say I do find his transition into this lifestyle to be one of the more farfetched plot developments I've seen on the show, but it's pretty entertaining all the same.

>And I find it brilliant that Don's first real "Draper pitch"
>since I wanna say Season 3 came out of the mouth of Freddie
>Rumsen. A little we know he's got his mojo back.

That was a great way to crack open the episode, too. How he was able to impress Peggy and what Don is doing with himself if he's not at work were 2 mysteries I didn't think to put together until the reveal

>I will say I do find his transition into this lifestyle to be
>one of the more farfetched plot developments I've seen on the
>show, but it's pretty entertaining all the same.

He's a rich, horny old dude with no real responsibilities who is utterly incapable of having a real connection with anyone anymore. Why wouldn't he wind up running (with) a weird orgy cult?

It's around the time
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Mad Men + blaxploitation. featuring Don-o-Mite, Black Peggy, Slim Sterling, and more.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxpkEehUd88

OMG.

when homegirl answered the phone 'Jackson Johnson Washington and White. WHAT?' i had to pause the video and crack the fuck up.

LOL

i seem to recall Bob coming on to Pete last season. and last night Pete's appearance caused a few pings on my Gaydar.

is they doing it?

Considering how much Pete and Bob hated each other by the end of last season, the answer is no. Bob schemed Pete out of the GM position, indirectly got his mother killed, and is the indirect reason he "needed" to head to Los Angeles in the first place. So, I really, really, really, REALLY doubt they're fucking.

I just watched that ep yesterday in anticipation of the s7 opener last nite so I felt compelled to correct, haha.

That line was delivered so beautifully.

being somewhat receptive for a few seconds.

considering how much Pete hated his mother i don't think the killing her thing would keep him out of Bob's drawers if he really wanted in.

and if not Bob, then maybe some other queer. but i'm watching Pete for more signs. lol

but ashamed...it'd be weird if Bob just disappeared after all that shit last season but then again Bob's not in Cali so I don't know

is a stretch. Bob hit on Pete exactly once. And it was at an exact moment when Pete was at his lowest and loneliest with his situation(s). Pete briefly considered the feeling of companionship but immediately shot down the thought of a homosexual encounter/relationship. At least that's the way I saw it. But either way, I don't think the show in any way made this an ongoing story or situation, or even implied it might be. But I may have missed something, if so let me know.

still, i'm watching Pete for signs. lol

i kinda forgot where he left off at the end of the season after all that

...that the Bob/Pete relationship theory is highly unlikely.

>i kinda forgot where he left off at the end of the season
>after all that

Last we saw, he coaxed Pete into driving a car he didn't know how to drive, which Pete then crashed into the huge GM sign inside their building, bewildering everyone in the building and ruining his shot at running shit in Detroit.

I can't imagine that we the first sign of a burgeoning relationship. Haha

like i said, Pete pinged my gaydar in this 1st ep. i'm watching him.

If that's what keeps you watching the show by all means! Haha.

But yea - I guess I see what you're getting @ regarding his mannerisms. But I just wanted to touch on the Benson argument cause I never saw *that* particular situation like that, at all.

you've made that point pretty clearly.

He was spending his time with Robin Williams and Sarah Michelle Gellar this year, so he's probably not getting much, if any, face time.

is that show still on?

the bad episodes, i can't even bear to finish em OnDemand.

is mostly unbearable to me at this point.

I hope so.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

by the real estate chick. I cannot wait. Happy/content Pete just doesn't seem right

cant tell him shit right now. and he got a bad bitch selling real estate too.

http://www.vulture.com/2014/04/vincent-kartheiser-on-mad-mens-final-season.html

"Still, Vincent Kartheiser is not Pete Campbell. Most immediately, there is Kartheiser’s hairline, which is covered in stubble where he shaved bald spots to play Pete, whose scalp can’t even catch a break."

i don't see him having the creative spark neccesary to be good at his job...he doesn't seem influential at all either...i can't imagine him pitching or convincing anyone of anything, other than that he's boring

plus with Don gone, the other dude working outta Cali, you'd think some of those clients woulda left since the main two creatives aren't in the NY location anymore...

Joan going to that professor was really smart

..we got TWO Black women in the office now, and neither of them are lightbrights??

....i kind of felt bad for everyone this ep (cept Swaggy P, he really seemed like he was trying to be happy)...they all seem miserable in this current state...

LOL

j/k.

:p

also, he seems like a pretty quick decision maker for better or worse. compared to Don's drunken meandering through a single file or two last season, that's got to be refreshing for the office professionally even if it isn't very enjoyable for them personally.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Interesting counter to Don
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

lol

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

And the reactions
And how the perspective of even Peggy being an asshole

Peggy yes you're an ass
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

...ole boy trippin on Dawn was REALLY silly, as was Peggy...

i wonder how the other girls are gonna do with having a Black Boss.... Cooper's "they can see her from the elevator!" line was hilariously telling of the reality of social hierarchy and dat 'cism....

...glad Don told his daughter at least most of the truth.... poor guy really has nothing to do...he cried in tha car though after that scene ended...

my fav scene though, was probably the two secretaries just talking...

MAN did he look pained having to say those words.

yet not totally surprised. his reaction makes perfect sense for the time and who he is but i was still "oh word?" when he saw her and circled back to Joan's office. Obviously knew what it was before he even opened his mouth though.

That was an interesting ep. It was nice to see Don and Sally bond a little. Also cool to see Dawn get a promotion...that should be interesting. They alluded to her doing the job last season though, if i remember correctly.

shocked vs not shocked


it played out perfectly
Bert is supposed to be zen and cool as shit

folks dont realize why our paranoia is what it is
you NEVER know who or when or why dat 'cism pops out
playing peek-a-boo

Joan was just annoyed with the whole thing
she gets props for giving her the job though
althoug that
they need someone to hate thing
man true as fuck
bet you she also lost her homie the other secretary
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

he knows his customers and how they think...could have more to do with that then his own beliefs...i kind of like that they didn't bother delving into that though. makes it more interesting.

yeah that's an interesting thought about Dawn's friend (forget her name)...i wonder how she'll react.

I think Bert *is* kind of cool with that type of shit but is also smart enough to realize that business could take a hit cause of OTHER people's racism and insecurities so he asked that she be moved from the front to somewhere else just due to that, not necessarily his OWN beliefs and racism. That's just the way I read it but they left it ambiguous for a reason, I'd assume.

if he really had a problem with it based on his own personal beliefs he would not be down with her getting the promotion. i guess we'll see how that plays out but i doubt he'll give a fuck. it's all about public perception.

I'm not convinced Bert was aware of Dawn's promo, or Joan's for that matter. Obviously Roger wasn't previously made aware of Joan's judging by their interaction as she moved her office, so I don't think it's too far fetched to guess that maybe Bert didn't know either.

It seems to me that Cutler is kind of working behind the scenes on a lot of things, perhaps in an effort to move some people out of his way (Bert and Roger come to mind). I think Cutler has some ulterior motives that we'll be more privy to down the line.

>I'm not convinced Bert was aware of Dawn's promo, or Joan's
>for that matter. Obviously Roger wasn't previously made aware
>of Joan's judging by their interaction as she moved her
>office, so I don't think it's too far fetched to guess that
>maybe Bert didn't know either.
>
>It seems to me that Cutler is kind of working behind the
>scenes on a lot of things, perhaps in an effort to move some
>people out of his way (Bert and Roger come to mind). I think
>Cutler has some ulterior motives that we'll be more privy to
>down the line.

if this blows up and there's fallout

its because Cutler is trying to shore up internal support

Joan making that move does something similar


gumz though
you saying Bert is inviting homegirl over for dinner?
this is the area i'm talking about
Bert doesn't gaf until he gaf
and yeah it was racist
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

but him refusing to have a girl up front vs. him realizing what having a girl up front can do for the business are two different things...both fucked up but still the motivations are different. that's all i'm saying.

Plausible deniability
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>I'm not convinced Bert was aware of Dawn's promo, or Joan's
>for that matter. Obviously Roger wasn't previously made aware
>of Joan's judging by their interaction as she moved her
>office, so I don't think it's too far fetched to guess that
>maybe Bert didn't know either.


Joan's promotion deals with accounts, which affects the bottomline of the company, which means Bert is aware. Dawn's promotion is administrative internal, and Bert isn't a micromanager for the most part, so I don't think he's aware or cares too deeply about that position.

>Joan's promotion deals with accounts, which affects the
>bottomline of the company, which means Bert is aware. Dawn's
>promotion is administrative internal, and Bert isn't a
>micromanager for the most part, so I don't think he's aware or
>cares too deeply about that position.

(a) Joan didn't really get a promotion, far as I could tell (my bad on calling it a promo above). She just got her office moved and got moved OFF of the personnel desk. She essentially got rid of responsibility and finally got placed among the other partners. I don't think it was a "promotion" or more money at all. She was already handling accounts, Cutler just moved her office to a place more appropriate for an account-handling partner, while at the same time getting her off of personnel matters. It didn't come with a title change or more money. Again, this is just the way I saw it.

(b) Even if it *did* come with a title change and/or money, if Roger wasn't aware of the change then it's reasonable to speculate that Bert wasn't made aware, either.

I think Cutler (and others) are becoming aware of this fact.

pretty sure that Avon account is the only she publicly represents in the office.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

she was the head accountant and head of personnel. While important, she didn't have any input on the accounts and creative direction of the company. Her being on accounts and closer to the other partners is a step up IMO. I guess it's debatable if Bert knew or not, but he cares about his paper and Joan being on accounts is something that will effect business brought into the agency.

>bet you she also lost her homie the other secretary

Are you inferring the friend is of the crab in a barrel type individual? She could be that way, but they are also the only two black (female) folks in a still white male dominated office. Her friend would be foolish to be upset, especially with someone that holds some power, albeit limited.

Also, I think Dawn was there before the other black secretary, so the friend shouldn't be upset in terms of lack of meritocracy.

>>bet you she also lost her homie the other secretary
>
>Are you inferring the friend is of the crab in a barrel type
>individual? She could be that way, but they are also the only
>two black (female) folks in a still white male dominated
>office. Her friend would be foolish to be upset, especially
>with someone that holds some power, albeit limited.



>Also, I think Dawn was there before the other black secretary,
>so the friend shouldn't be upset in terms of lack of
>meritocracy.

More like that position gains you no friends
It's not about being upset that she got the position but more
Not understanding the decisions that may come with it

Looking at Joan as the example
As well as Peggy
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>my fav scene though, was probably the two secretaries just
>talking...
>

Shirley's jabs at Peggy's love life were great too...

What the blood claaat???

And you're correct in that it was cool to see Peggy cast in a somewhat negative light since she's normally the show's moral center, outside of the whole Pete pregnancy thing.

yall really touching on why the did the race stuff very well

agreed with others that the two Secretaries talking was prob my favorite scene next to Don and Sally in the car

and Pete seems to feel some kinda way about having to work w/Bob.

i'm watching.

should be interesting

Feel bad for ole Don.

and the new guy of course

...Don and that other dude were the main creative forces at the company, now they've left it up the next generation and and Capt. "I'm just collecting a check to steer this ship".....why most of their clients still wanna deal with them is baffling to me....yeah Don messed up, but they act like he tried to burn down the building and shitted on their cigar boxes....

...and i don't get ole boy moping around Cali either, but i'm guessing we'll get more on that later...

oh, and i'll say one thing about Pete, he seems to attract women who do not play when it comes down to handlin their affairs...

>oh, and i'll say one thing about Pete, he seems to attract
>women who do not play when it comes down to handlin their
>affairs...



not the woman
but Pete landing a whale and they not letting him have it
what is that about?


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

or just another power move by Ted and thick frames...seemed like a little bit of both. what he said about not wanting to anger Chevy because they want to land GM made perfect sense though...i get Pete's side as well. i wonder if he'll just completely slack off now and enjoy his time in Cali. if he does it won't last long...he's not built like that. he stays losing.

Cause I'm like
If dude above is right
Then these dudes are making emotional decisions
And their company deserves to fail
And I'm like they wouldn't...would they?
Did they??
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

He single handedly lost the 8mil account when he ran into his Father in-law at the brothel.

Then he almost lost Chevy because he couldn't drive stick and couldn't just tell people that.

His track record with big body accounts isn't really looking too sweet. They're not trying to let him run point on that.

He can get his foot in the door but servicing the accounts ongoing hasn't really been his strength to this point. Obviously both situations were reasonably outside of his control but the people who make the decisions at SCP don't know that.

His claim to fame, remember how he got it? He basically bodied his father in-law into giving him the account to take care of his daughter. Dude really hated him at that point and Pete hit him with that classic shrug.

So once dude saw him at the Brothel it was a stonecold wrap!

He almost made the worst mistake you can make with gearheads, faking being one. If you're not familiar they LOVE to teach you and tell you why you should already appreciate the car, but don't fake lie and get caught.

cause i'm like petes a dick
but what am i forgetting


and yeah i can see them not having that
he is definitely also a fuck up
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

She has a job and all, but she's on a downfall this season as well.

I couldn't stop cringing

that would've been hilarious

In response to Sally saying what she was going to wear to the funeral, one of her friends asks "is this your first funeral?"
It may have been a throw away line but seemed like they were trying to plant some kind of seed. Could it be a hint that she will need to attend another funeral (Don)? The only person I remember that has died in Sally's life is Grandpa Gene years earlier.

Could there be future tension between Dawn & Shirley, now that Dawn has some power and is her boss? Dawn seems pretty conservative and proper, but not afraid to stand up for herself. Where Shirley is a less conservative and willing to wear hip stylish clothes and a mean 'fro that I would doubt Dawn approves of in the workplace.

Both could amount to nothing more than me reading into the smallest of details but that is why this show works so well, every little thing could be someting, or not.

>
> In response to Sally saying what she was going to wear to the
>funeral, one of her friends asks "is this your first funeral?"
>
>It may have been a throw away line but seemed like they were
>trying to plant some kind of seed. Could it be a hint that she
>will need to attend another funeral (Don)? The only person I
>remember that has died in Sally's life is Grandpa Gene years
>earlier.
>
>Could there be future tension between Dawn & Shirley, now that
>Dawn has some power and is her boss? Dawn seems pretty
>conservative and proper, but not afraid to stand up for
>herself. Where Shirley is a less conservative and willing to
>wear hip stylish clothes and a mean 'fro that I would doubt
>Dawn approves of in the workplace.
>
>Both could amount to nothing more than me reading into the
>smallest of details but that is why this show works so well,
>every little thing could be someting, or not.


Made me realize how Dawn went off an stuck up for herself this episode. I thought she was going to just sit there and take it fomr ol' screwhead racist ass. I thought she'd be fired for that but it all turned into a promotion for her haha (even though she had an out as firing would not look to good on the company: bravo for the writers for bringing these issues up though).

On your premonitions: dont. Just dont bother because just like the Sopranos, nothing means nothing and its fruitless to predict.

cause dude was dead ass wrong.... i could see him being a little uncomfortable with Sally coming by, but he went way overboard....

all the feels...

hilarious.

It really bothered me. I wanna see how 5his plays out. But too many L's in one episode

Don is on the downslide, as will the story unfold and end.

Guessing he'll be alone, sad and looking at a view of the sunset from a beach chair in Florida, framed like the legendary office shot. OK, not, but it won't be a happy ending.

got him reporting to bitchass Lou and everything.

meanwhile young Bobby outchea on that "fuck my life" tip. i know the feeling.

how fucking stupid is Cutler to think they could just throw Don out the window w/ no financial ramifications. like i know he hates Don cause Don styled all over Ted but damn.

even Peggy shitting on Don. Joan was hating on him like she's really worth a damn.

it's time for Don to get some Ws. the rest of the office needs a fucking reality check.

Fucking Joan of all people mouthing off. If this show ends without him making them all regret it..I'd never watch anything Weiner ever does again. Shit was so annoying

He was straight-up L Y I N G


That doesn't mean his master plan will necessarily work though.

But look, they wanted him GONE, and now he's BACK and he's DONALD DRAPER. I'm marking it as an L for him still, but it's a pending transaction.

I was thinking the same thing the entire time. After all the shit Don's done to pick her ass back up and help her when things got rough, she's gonna give him that type of finger-snap bitchy bullshit? Fuck outta here. Her ungrateful ass should've sat there SILENT throughout that meeting and let the other partners do the talking.

>I was thinking the same thing the entire time. After all the
>shit Don's done to pick her ass back up and help her when
>things got rough, she's gonna give him that type of
>finger-snap bitchy bullshit? Fuck outta here. Her ungrateful
>ass should've say there SILENT throughout that meeting and let
>the other partners do the talking.

that wasn't all that long ago (season 5?), and that wasn't the first time. So yea. I hope he gets to have a moment with Joan like the one he had with Roger. He set Roger straight pretty quick after some brief back and forth, on some "I talked you INTO this agency" shit.

>that wasn't all that long ago (season 5?), and that wasn't
>the first time. So yea. I hope he gets to have a moment with
>Joan like the one he had with Roger. He set Roger straight
>pretty quick after some brief back and forth, on some "I
>talked you INTO this agency" shit.


Word up..and since he is back and without having to worry bout Megan, he can be his old killer self and watch him show the rest of those losers how its done


with a vengeance now due to how they did him (even though he did flip out but still he should be allowed a few mishaps with what he brought to the table)

but it is kind of mortifying situation to come back in that manner

And played himself at the end, too. Shoulda just took the offer from the other spot and not looked back. DAMN! Watch this shit be like Jordan's second comeback, too.

I'm mad but I'm happy I'm mad. First episode of the season to get any sort of reaction out of me.

And yo. Betty killed it this week. Styling on all you hoes with a cigarette hanging out a school bus window.

For a second there I thought his ass had died and left Don's ass hanging out to dry

Redeemed a sliver of himself in that meeting though

Cutler was a blubbering mess at the end of that rant. Roger is the fucking man. and he's 10000% right, not only about the financial implications but regarding everything about Don.

And ... fuck Cutler. I used to love his screentime now he's just pissing me off everytime he's seen.

i was really worried

this reminded me that these new dudes havent a damn clue what they are dong
lou and jim are actually old but man they just dont seem to be good at this

jim seems disturbed at Harry's dishonesty
i'm like um...what exactly is it that you do for a living? hello
and then the hypocritical attempting to use that computer as an excuse


smh*


you GO sterling
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

there's still a divide between the Cutler/Chaough (sp) crew and the Sterling/Cooper/Draper crew, even if no one's willing to readily admit it. Cutler's trying to lead a charge but he doesn't have too many soldiers on his squad, it seems, though he's making swift moves to try and sweep up some of the SCDP crew.

And, someone in here mentioned how Cutler's trying to keep Draper out because of "what he did to Ted...". What exactly did he do to Ted? He tried to go to CA but then ended up changing his mind and letting Ted go. Even if the motives behind Don's decision weren't *for* Ted so much as they was for Don himself, the end result was the same and Ted got what he wanted so what could Cutler/Ted be holding against Don in that regard?

the time in the meeting when Don almost outed Ted and Peggy on some public shaming exhibition.

Plus the California thing.

Don has raked Ted over the coals on a few occasions.

.

I don't know how much more of Asshole Peggy™ I'ma be able to take

That fucking Betts

It almost felt like Don and Bobby were on equal footing in this episode, in that both were made to feel especially small by those with more power than them (and also notably by women that they theoretically look up to)

And no, we don't know for sure if ol' girl was brought in by those guys to help seal the deal with Don, though it is *strongly implied* that she was, with their *wink wink har har har* denials...

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

As if she's happier reporting to Bigot Lou.

get out from under Don.

I understand why she wouldn't want Don back.

But, still, doesn't it seem like despite their differences, Peg's always been happier and more successful when Don was around?

I do believe she should cut Don a little slack tho. For good or for bad, he's REALLY been in her corner.

I remembered that she was doing just fine at Cutler/Chaough before the merger...but still, yea, like you said, Don's an asshole and is especially hard on Peg but I feel like a large part of her success has been DUE to how hard he's been on her. If he babied her she probably wouldn't have been as driven.

But regardless, yea, I agree with you that she needs to eventually let up a little bit. I think that will come with time and hopefully when she gets over the Ted situation.

I lost all sympathy for her when she threw a fit after the two firms merged. Her obsession with Teddy has turned her into a simp.

Has always been the shows MO

But yeah it felt especially salient here. Don's field trip back to the office was probably worse than Bobby's field trip to the farm but Don probably got the better sandwich out of the deal.

What was that line, "I wish it was yesterday" ... Sheeeeit. What a crumby acknowledgement that today sucks and tomorrow ain't looking so hot either. But with Bobby at least he realizes it's a wish. With Don it seems to be an actual life strategy right now. I wanna root for the guy but it's hard not to see all this backfiring on him

it actually made me laugh out loud. Poor kid.

>It almost felt like Don and Bobby were on equal footing in this episode, in that both were made to feel especially small by those with more power than them (and also notably by women that they theoretically look up to)

They were alternating between short, choppy Don and Bobby scenes for a good portion of that episode, so it was kinda heavy handed but also well done I thought.

If it really is the end for him, he's had a good run. Seeing as how, he hasn't really done anything since S2.

I laughed.

>If it really is the end for him, he's had a good run. Seeing
>as how, he hasn't really done anything since S2.

http://i.qkme.me/3te95w.jpg

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Don's been keeping a pretty major secret from her (ostensibly the reason he has remained in NY is because of his job, which he doesn't actually have.) And he only came out to LA to fuck and scold her.

But at the same time, I am not 100% seeing Don's actions as evidence that he doesn't want to be with her. He's doing a lot of soul searching, and is confused, and I think a lot of it has to do with his having lost the job that otherwise used to be his escape from everything else in life. I don't think it's so much that he's not in love with Megan anymore or that he doesn't want to be with her, but just that his confusion and depression about the job situation has caused collateral damage in his relationship.

In other words, I feel like he's always kind of felt that his only positive character trait is his ability to do his job, his drive and his success. Because that's how he feels about himself (evidenced in his conversation with the girl on the plane in ep. 1 as well as his conversation with Megan in this episode when he said something to the effect of "I didn't want you to know because I thought you'd think less of me..."), he thinks that this is how everyone else perceives him as well...someone who's no good unless he's working and making money.

So you can see it from both sides, IMO. Megan sees it as "he doesn't want to be with me...he's been home doing nothing all this time and didn't take that opportunity to move with me"... meanwhile Don's at home thinking "I am nothing without this job...Megan will think I'm nothing without this job," but he isn't realizing the damage he's causing by *not* telling her the whole truth. I mean if the truth was that he in fact DIDN'T want to be with Megan anymore, don't you think he would've been cheating on her non-stop while he had just about the easiest opportunity/open window that he's ever had in his life to do so? Instead, so far we've seen him turn down two layups, both times his very next scene being attempts to better his professional situation.

He cheated on her all last season...he doesnt tell his wife he been fired....he is selfish and worries about his own job and desires and poo poo's Megans and basically anybody elses...man Fuck Don..yall got it twisted

soul searching...lol




>But at the same time, I am not 100% seeing Don's actions as
>evidence that he doesn't want to be with her. He's doing a lot
>of soul searching, and is confused, and I think a lot of it
>has to do with his having lost the job that otherwise used to
>be his escape from everything else in life. I don't think it's
>so much that he's not in love with Megan anymore or that he
>doesn't want to be with her, but just that his confusion and
>depression about the job situation has caused collateral
>damage in his relationship.
>
>In other words, I feel like he's always kind of felt that his
>only positive character trait is his ability to do his job,
>his drive and his success. Because that's how he feels about
>himself (evidenced in his conversation with the girl on the
>plane in ep. 1 as well as his conversation with Megan in this
>episode when he said something to the effect of "I didn't want
>you to know because I thought you'd think less of me..."), he
>thinks that this is how everyone else perceives him as
>well...someone who's no good unless he's working and making
>money.
>
>So you can see it from both sides, IMO. Megan sees it as "he
>doesn't want to be with me...he's been home doing nothing all
>this time and didn't take that opportunity to move with me"...
>meanwhile Don's at home thinking "I am nothing without this
>job...Megan will think I'm nothing without this job," but he
>isn't realizing the damage he's causing by *not* telling her
>the whole truth. I mean if the truth was that he in fact
>DIDN'T want to be with Megan anymore, don't you think he
>would've been cheating on her non-stop while he had just about
>the easiest opportunity/open window that he's ever had in his
>life to do so? Instead, so far we've seen him turn down two
>layups, both times his very next scene being attempts to
>better his professional situation.

These things aren't mutually exclusive, killer. He can be a liar and a cheater but still have confused, soul-searching moments.

I was just making the point that I don't think his CURRENT actions are indicative of someone who doesn't love their wife anymore or doesn't want to be with her. I just think he's more focused on the state of his work situation than he is about the situation with his wife, but that situation is collateral damage.

do the right thing THIS season

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

But y'all keep copping those pleas

Wasn't the implication of those scenes being that Freddy has been getting contracting work by being Don's proxy? That's not exactly the kinda situation in which you get to feel fucked over when your "muse" goes back to work.

Besides, for all we know that relationship has already ended and Freddy got himself a job somewhere.

to that kind of ridiculous conclusion considering what was given to us.

He's fucking someone over by getting his job back, is essentially the premise of that argument.

GTFOH with that convenient ass fan fiction, fam!

Try "giving you my interpretation of an unimportant television show's events"

I love how you fools are like, getting angry about this.

Anyway ... to your "point," how exactly is he fucking over Freddy? I mean, that was so unimportant to the rest of the show I don't even think it will ever be mentioned again. Freddy was getting money from Don to pitch his ideas. That's it.

I don't even know where you'd get such a strange idea.

Freddy was holding Don down, bringing food to the crib and practically life coaching that dude out of a bottle. I mean, just look at the name: Freddy Rumsen. Fred Rum Sen. Freed from Rum. Free Man. Sorry you're bad at symbolism but it's all right there.

If not for a little Freddy voice in the back of Don's mind guiding the way, dude would've most likely died out on that frozen balcony a couple episodes back. Don gets back on his feet and how does he return the favor? He doesn't. Typical Draper maneuver.

>Freddy was holding Don down, bringing food to the crib and
>practically life coaching that dude out of a bottle. I mean,
>just look at the name: Freddy Rumsen. Fred Rum Sen. Freed from
>Rum. Free Man. Sorry you're bad at symbolism but it's all
>right there.

http://tinyurl.com/mou82ko

Well done.

Joans, Peggy's and Dawn's reaction though


i guess with him back they are afraid all goes back to status quo


although Lou is NOT their friend


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>These things aren't mutually exclusive, killer. He can be a
>liar and a cheater but still have confused, soul-searching
>moments.
>
>I was just making the point that I don't think his CURRENT
>actions are indicative of someone who doesn't love their wife
>anymore or doesn't want to be with her. I just think he's more
>focused on the state of his work situation than he is about
>the situation with his wife, but that situation is collateral
>damage.


Thats all because he lost his job and was caught cheating by his daughter etc. These aren't mutually exclusive no but there was a cause for this so called spiffy Don you speak of

Granted, I will give you that he tried real good (lol) when he first married Megan that year, but..Don is Don and we have what transpired last season leading up to him eating crow at work and getting separated/dee-vorced. Hell, his issues at work were due to his affair going a different way then he wanted. Chief.

But I can see why she's furious at him.

>But I can see why she's furious at him.

he cant expect her to see that
of course
i agree

but when she choses to believe him

she turns around like YOU DIDN'T WANT TO BE WITH ME IN LA
i know we are entering the age of progression
but is she seriously upset at the dude with the serious drinking and womanizing issues
who has take steps to correct them
for wanting his job back?? in 1969?


the thing that makes him...him?

to drop everything and find a job in LA?
for her?

is she serious right now?
baby steps megan baby steps sheesh
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>to drop everything and find a job in LA?
>for her?
>
>is she serious right now?
>baby steps megan baby steps sheesh

well he fucked up yet again…lied about not having a job for one, and not even offering to consider the thought of moving to LA while he's pretty much unemployed. sure it might be easier to try to fix things in NYC, but he can do the same in LA.

i get what you're saying, don is don and you're either going to have to accept him for who he is or get out…that's its difficult or almost impossible for people to change, but i think people cling to that hope. don really is better off single.

Meanwhile Don basically handed over his balls in a jar just so he could be a real ad man again

I don't foresee their rivalry being all that pivotal to the series, but I think they represent 2 opposing mentalities that are driving forces behind the show right now

of the line to Harry Crane at the end of their exchange.

"You have competition.......But you may be the most dishonest person I have ever worked with."

I had to pause the DVR & rewind.

That was up there with any one liner Roger has dropped in the entire series.IMO

Rest of the ep was really good stuff too.
Peggy should check herself, she had success on her own, but it was using the toolbox Don gave her,that is why she butts heads with Lou. She does all the things she had to do for Don (visuals/storyboards/multiple examples) and Lou doesn't understand why. As soon as Ginsberg started running through ideas with Don the first thing he asked for was storyboards, and they hit the ground running.
Side note: Ginsberg has been xtra snarky with Peggr, and was happiest Don was back to get some true direction.

I really get confused with the layout of the office, but isn't Peggy in Lanes old office? She will be extra salty if Don comes back and makes her move too!

>of the line to Harry Crane at the end of their exchange.
>
>"You have competition.......But you may be the most dishonest
>person I have ever worked with."

But yea - definitely wonderfully delivered.


>Rest of the ep was really good stuff too.
>Peggy should check herself, she had success on her own, but it
>was using the toolbox Don gave her,that is why she butts heads
>with Lou. She does all the things she had to do for Don
>(visuals/storyboards/multiple examples) and Lou doesn't
>understand why. As soon as Ginsberg started running through
>ideas with Don the first thing he asked for was storyboards,
>and they hit the ground running.

This is an excellent, excellent observation on your part and I'm mad at myself for not picking up on it. Further proof that Lou is a fucking moron. I hope he gets his comeuppance at some point.


>Side note: Ginsberg has been xtra snarky with Peggr, and was
>happiest Don was back to get some true direction.

For sure.

>>of the line to Harry Crane at the end of their exchange.
>>
>>"You have competition.......But you may be the most
>dishonest
>>person I have ever worked with."
>
>But yea - definitely wonderfully delivered.
>
>
>>Rest of the ep was really good stuff too.
>>Peggy should check herself, she had success on her own, but
>it
>>was using the toolbox Don gave her,that is why she butts
>heads
>>with Lou. She does all the things she had to do for Don
>>(visuals/storyboards/multiple examples) and Lou doesn't
>>understand why. As soon as Ginsberg started running through
>>ideas with Don the first thing he asked for was storyboards,
>>and they hit the ground running.
>
>This is an excellent, excellent observation on your part and
>I'm mad at myself for not picking up on it. Further proof that
>Lou is a fucking moron. I hope he gets his comeuppance at some
>point.
>
>
>>Side note: Ginsberg has been xtra snarky with Peggr, and was
>>happiest Don was back to get some true direction.
>
>For sure.
>

Mind yall I thought it was the worst season.

but I need a reminder on why so much distaste for Don

I mean Joan and Peggy giving Don that much shit, they are both a product of his "tough love". I love that Roger stood up for his boy.

Lou is insufferable. I hate that MFer

Betty is just an awful petty parent. I'm glad they have not relented on that theme through the years, but man if she aint look luscious holding that future lil white devil as he went night night

The scene(s) when Don returned to the office while going back and forth between He and his son with Bets at the farm, was masterful, IMO. it was disorienting and playing in the theme of layers and mirrors within social relations.

and LOL @ the low key hate the moms had for Teacher's bewbs

i really enjoyed the episode outside of Meg's struggle tears. I also just really dislike her character.

that eventually spilled into him turning into a meatball in front of Hershey but...I really wasn't sure why Joan and Peggy were so bummed to have him back. Especially after that first scene of him back in the office, noticing all the influence he's had on that place even while he was away; the two secretaries he wasn't married to had their own offices (one of which was the head of a department, the other essentially so even if it's "just" desk keeping) and the one woman in the office he never had a truly flirtatious relationship with, to the point he actually cared about her, was fucking upstairs in an account executive's office.


To go from that dream-haze like pride to all his proteges seeming put upon by him (of the three, only Dawn felt earned; after all, she really seems too busy to be Don's secretary anymore) was jarring and a little weird. He fucked himself up but I don't really remember him fucking up his relationships with the people in the office other than the partners who trusted him, and a little bit of Peggy's resentment for causing the merger with Cutler's group and gimping her progress up the ladder.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

.

That "OK" was like "yea whatever"

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Even that partnership stake

That's that good drammuh right there

>Even that partnership stake
>
>That's that good drammuh right there



I was being funny cause I agree
Don is magic
Like sterling showed in this episode
I realized dude I likely right
And I got caught up in the
Oh noes a contract
Lol
Ooooo drammaaaaaaaa
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

yeah that was a surreptitious "ok"..He plotting....

he always does.

he may be terrible with personal relationships, but when he's working, he's zees Master.

Still the same "arc" for her every episode. Still the worst mother on the planet. You'd think with Don "changing" they'd have her learn just a little. But no, Weiner's happy enough telling the same story over and over with her.

I laughed at that shit.

Classic Betty.

Love it.

some folks never put it together and she's in that line.

people love to hate these days. remember how weird and old Don and Betty's bedroom looked like when the show started in 1962 or whenever it was? that's how 72 year old Betty's room will look, and she'll be super proud of it. I appreciate her character as much for showing how people from that (and any other era) can't see the need for change, whether due to privilege or stubbornness. Her parenting style fit into the world Mad Men began in perfectly. It's only the past two seasons where seemed entirely out of touch with what children of the 70s will be hoping for.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

When he held up those gum drops, I just paused it and laughed.

Kids.

She's easily me favorite character. I never want her to change.

like she was ever even having a good day

and i love how oblivious she is to her lack of empathy and nurturing

lil ytniglet looked like he wanted to cry eating that candy

shut up, Betty you petty bitch. The child made a simple mistake and he was genuinely sorry.

Ugh cannot STAND HER

What the blood claaat???

her and her husband's scenes.

I get why she's still around

8 year old Bobby did some 8 year old shit because he thought his prone to be fat ass eating one pea at a time momma was still fasting. And all of a sudden my children don't love me. Bish what?!

Bobby like "bitch please. this my momma seat."

i felt so bad for him at the end.

I'm love to see a meaningful scene with Joan and Peggy. Looks as if Peggy has hit a glass ceiling given that her current boss isn't a mentor unlike the prior two bosses she had. I'm surprised Joan seems to be winning in terms of office hierarchy while the Pegster isn't winning at all. Given how sour she has been, I have a feeling Peggy would find a way to screw things up with Joan though.

after Hari Krishna dude tries to make out with her. Joan gave her the nicest-meanest sternest-sweetest talking to in that scene. Peggy needs to have her one of those with Joan on the receiving end. She's always great at calling people out anyway, she's just been so thoroughly deconstructed by her relationships with men she seems unable to pull that card on people anymore. Instead she just inadvertently pulls it on herself.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

that she's still broken-hearted about scumbag in LA

also let's not ignore that they are giving Faux-Don hella good ideas and he just calls them shit. That would wear anyone down

Anyone think there's a chance that next episode begins with:

"Okay... now that's cute. Here are my conditions"

I mean, he does have that legal partnership leverage

but it's possible, and would be kinda interesting.

>Anyone think there's a chance that next episode begins with:
>
>"Okay... now that's cute. Here are my conditions"
>
>

lol no

No signing took place.

But that said, I really don't think the writers would pull something as cheesy as that. But it'd be interesting.

Sounded more to me like "Oak, hey"

Get the partners talking about the craftsmanship of the boardroom table, classic Don Draper distraction tactic.

>Sounded more to me like "Oak, hey"
>
>Get the partners talking about the craftsmanship of the
>boardroom table, classic Don Draper distraction tactic.

Clients love this guy, even when he fucks them over they bend over again. He'll be back to business soon enough.

...the GOAT he was once was. He's a soon-to-be dinosaur of the late '50/early '60s. Dude hasn't done a "knock 'em out the box" pitch since him, Roger, Cooper, and Lane split off to form the new agency. The best pitch he's done since then had to done by Rumsen.

I think people expecting him to come in and work his Draper magic for the remaining four eps of this season are going to be disappointed. This show has always been about the fall of guys like him and the rise of people like Peggy.

Because his throne doesn't really exist anymore. And I bet if we went back to Season 1 knowing what we know now, we'd at least partially recognize it for the sham it was to begin with.

As fun as it would be to watch some sort of Breaking Bad-style finale where the dude just Batmans his way through a list of unfinished business, that's not really something I want or expect.

I'm more concerned, as corny as this is gonna sound, with the dude's soul at this point. His health and relationship with his kids. Last season was weak but the finale was kinda perfect to me. I'm optimistic that the freefall graphic the show opens with is a little more symbolic of the tearing down of one identity to build up a better, truer one.

and his interactions with women, in the context of where he's come, was never particularly mind-blowing. In fact, the very first pitch meeting we really see him in is the one for Mencken's where he essentially says "fuck this, I'm not working for a woman" as a power play and it only goes over fine because it's 1962. He saves the account by revealing himself to be a very flawed individual during the following dinner with Rachel, even though he comes off confused and offended by her assertion that he has any insecurities at all.

Other than a few random presentations (most specifically the slideshow reel, of course) and the general air of inspiration his employees fed off of, Don Draper has actually always been a more of a spectre in the air than an actual, physical thing. There is way more Dick Whitman in this show than Don Draper.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

> for real. Don bout to get in their asses big time

& Roger see's it.

No Cleo's indifferent sweater wearing boss, lots of infighting and turmoil the two firms/offices. Other agencies putting offer in writing to a top exec.

Don's return will brethe some (needed) life back into the creative dept. Even tho a lot of his luster is tarnished, and he is becoming an old man in the game who is stuck in the 60's, when he is focused he is the best thing they have and it rubs off on the others Peggy being the most obvious. The rest of the team was estatic to see him back in that office too.

The question is how long will he remain focused trying to prove to everyone (himself) he still got it. The setup is for his next derailment to really be his last.

What was happening.

He was missing all the clues, Dawn got promoted so she doesn't have time for your piddly little message keeping.

Basically everyone other than the people who worked with him missed him.

My wife called it early in the episode. He's going to have to follow his own advice and he did.

Lou won't be there forever so i'm sure Don will get his office back.

I did have a REAL issue with how Joan was acting. Like we get it you're an account person now but lets not act like Don was personally hurting you. The whole thing was very strange to me. It was like everyone other than the creative kids had forgotten what he'd done for the place.

She fucked the dealer assoc guy to get the acct and then Don discarded it like it was nothing...which it was.

Don was the only one who cared about her humanity at the time tho. She either hates herself for it or hates that Don reminds her that she earned her partnership with her tits, and not her brain. Harry bringing it up in front if everyone didnt help either. Even the partnership wasnt her idea, it was Lane's (even if Lane only suggested it to hide his own embezzlement).

>She fucked the dealer assoc guy to get the acct and then Don
>discarded it like it was nothing...which it was.
>
>Don was the only one who cared about her humanity at the time
>tho. She either hates herself for it or hates that Don
>reminds her that she earned her partnership with her tits, and
>not her brain.

The fact it was all for nothing. I remember him trying to be like, "If I was here I would have stopped it" and she rebuffed his white cape-in the situation as if she was a big girl.

Maybe him being around does remind her what she had to do.

It was a shitty company with shitty cars, Don was the only one who was looking out for her.

She did it anyway and now she mad at him.

Damn that's some real shit.

Am I the only one here who's had to go back to a job after being laid off or something? That shit is w e i r d for everyone involved.

Plus they had no idea he'd been invited, and there's a good chance most of them didn't know the full story of why he got dismissed in the first place.

Joan's bit did seem a little extra but overall I thought they nailed that whole vibe perfectly. Survivor's guilt, mixed with things change, mixed with 'we were never really friends in the first place', mixed with 'uh things are actually going pretty smoothly right now could you please not fuck it up'

but it wasn't all that awkward since I was 16, it was a 50's doo wop themed burger and shakes restaurant and the reason I'd wanted to work there in the first place was because my parents told me I needed a job SOMEWHERE and a lot of friends happened to work there.

but the restaurant had also just opened and I'd been fired as a server, something I never wanted to be anyway, and the managers appreciated the guts it took to come back and ask for a position as a host or bartender (shake maker). along with how many people I hung out with that worked there it wasn't THAT awkward, but I remember feeling a little embarrassed around the catholic school girls and other people outside my core crew.


ACTUALLY, I also went back to the kitchen I worked in from early 2012-late 2013 after they called begging me to come back and cover whatever shifts I could. It'd been like 6-7 months after I left, and I only lasted one day. The guys I liked had moved back to India after accumulating the savings they wanted, there was NO FOH service staff (the manager and porter were handling all the food and drinks) and all the old problems that caused me to get frustrated, blow up on management and get let go rather than promoted in the first place were still there, some of them worse than ever.

Immediately after I left that place around 4PM I went on a bender that went until about 3 in the morning, and when I woke up with the worst hangover I'd ever had I realized I couldn't go back. I'd worked there from Day Zero but it didn't feel like home at all anymore, it felt more like a prison I went back to voluntarily.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

My wife thinks its the lead in to Woodstock

>My wife thinks its the lead in to Woodstock


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

And will he try the brown acid

His daughter would be having the kind of crazy, free-wheeling sex that he's been enjoying his entire life.

THEN Roger becomes Mr. Stern Father.

...and also why all men fear having daughters?

it played into exactly what he was talking about regarding
there being a hierarchy
and sex definitely is in that pyramid scheme

and no one is more familiar with how sex is used that Mr Sterling

lol
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I think Roger got caught up in his own fantasy for a minute there, like he was finally taking that camping trip with his little girl that he never made time for when she was little. While it made for some really cool Roger moments, I think ultimately his motivations for hanging around were selfish. Letting your kid eat ice cream for dinner might make for smiling faces but it isn't exactly parenting, you know?

Then he sees her sneak off to get it in, and it's an awkward reminder that his little girl is an adult now. And with that comes certain responsibilities, especially with her kid being in the mix. So then he drops the hammer and loses his footing because the moral high ground he was standing on was shaky at best.

>I think Roger got caught up in his own fantasy for a minute
>there, like he was finally taking that camping trip with his
>little girl that he never made time for when she was little.
>While it made for some really cool Roger moments, I think
>ultimately his motivations for hanging around were selfish.
>Letting your kid eat ice cream for dinner might make for
>smiling faces but it isn't exactly parenting, you know?
>
>Then he sees her sneak off to get it in, and it's an awkward
>reminder that his little girl is an adult now. And with that
>comes certain responsibilities, especially with her kid being
>in the mix. So then he drops the hammer and loses his footing
>because the moral high ground he was standing on was shaky at
>best.


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://www.hypable.com/2014/05/05/mad-men-house-easter-egg-season-monolith-hobo-code/

she thought she'd enjoy the hell out of making Don do grunt work.

edit: damn hippie Margaret is cute as fuck.
edit 2: joan looking the best she has this season. roger's the realest dude alive.

TO ME, he started really winning when he told his kids about his past....he was at the bottom, and we all should realze that last saseon was him "losing", but this season he's been thinking about what he wants....this ep Freddy really was a great friend to Don.....he really needs to rededicate himself...despite what he did last season, i don't see why some of them treat Don like he's not THAT dude...they way they treat him really makes me root for him cause the way folks like Cooper treat him is overkill....

>she thought she'd enjoy the hell out of making Don do grunt
>work.
>
Peggy's an asshat... i used to really njoy her stories, but she's turned into Pete in season one...

>edit: damn hippie Margaret is cute as fuck.

LOL ole boy was ready to get that right next to her dad

>edit 2: joan looking the best she has this season. roger's the
>realest dude alive.
>

i liked that Roger really tried with everything he was involved in...he was really looking out for alotta people in this ep

I also don't like how they are treating Don this season. In hindsight what did he really do that was so bad, on a business level he blew a pitch meeting by keeping it a little too real. OK he (forcefully) took the time off and cleaned up his act and now he's back to business. Peggy's being a ass hat to Don (the man who basically nurtured made her into a creative genius. Is she still salty over Ted (the man who basically kicked her to the curb in the end anyway). I loved Freddie coming in to get Don he's a true friend.

Don hit a rough patch, and it's like Cooper/Peggy/Joan forgot all the goodwill Don has offered all 3 of them in the past, whether business-related or personal, or both. All 3 of them owe Don a debt and while I don't blame them for giving him the LOA or giving him some stipulations upon his return, the overall heir of superiority they're breathing all over him is a little over the top and unnecessary considering he seems to have learned his lesson and is coming in looking to hit the ground running. I was put off by Peggy and Joan's attitudes last week towards Don, this week I was super put off by Cooper's. Bunch of ungrateful fucks.

Roger's the only one who seems to be treating Don like a human and a friend, while not forgetting that Don has helped him too.

it is odd how he thought he could waltz back in


its clear they dont trust him

his behavior is showing why they can't trust him


Freddie is right baby steps

if Dons can knock this out the park
which we know he can

and do it with consistency
which is where he is questionable


then hes back on track


but yeah no on is letting him waltz back in on this
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Peggy was so uncomfortable

L's does one person have to take? The whole reason I got into this show in the beginning was how dope Don Draper was. He was a character that was fun and easy to cheer for. Weiner took all that good will, and for the past 3 or 4 seasons, it has been one superb L after the other. It is like the total downfall of Donald Draper. It is like a bottomless fall, everytime you think this is the bottom, he shows you there is a deeper bottom. I am seriously pissed. The fuck is this garbage?

I understand that many people here love the show, and won't share my views. I get that. But I have not watched this show in the last 2 seasons at least, and felt good about spending that one hour. You may ask why do I keep watching? It is a very good question. This is genuine flaw in me. I keep thinking that I have watched it for so long, and it will turn the corner next week. But I do now realize that I am not built for this sad ass shit. I do not call it good TV. Justified, Suits, Boardwalk, Vikings, even Breaking Bad was great TV...you had something to laugh about, cheer for and internally look forward to. This show and GoT are just pile-ons. One sad shit after the other. call me old fashioned, but I am one of those who believe that a great show should have wonderful writing, and a protagonist you could root for and kind of mentally journey with, and that show should give you some kind of internal satisfaction through its run that you feel like you gained something. Ironically, I do think Mad Men has great writing, but it seems the last few seasons they just want to wallow in sad shit and kill every good in all the great characters they once had. Don Draper was such a great character. Now it is almost pathetic to watch this fall. It is distasteful. I seriously apologize for my rant, and to those who really like this show. I used to. I don't anymore. It is my fault, and I will stop watching it regularly. Sure, sometime in the winter or next spring, I will sit down and watch it as a marathon. But this is where I bow out. I hate watching things that annoy me after I am done. I will spend my Sunday nights going out to dinner or out on town doing shit with my GF....God knows she hates that I am upset after watching this shit, and wanting to hang out with her. This show is just so shitty with the L's now.

WHO LIVED A LIE, HIS ENTIRE ADULT LIFE, HURRY UP AND GET RIGHT! GUH THIS IS SO, FRUSTRATING!

It would be pretty boring to watch a show for 8 years which just detailed the happenings of a bossy asshole who just keeps dodging bullets and winning. Would be corny as hell.

To keep watching a character fail in the same ways over and over again. And this show has treaded those waters on occasion.

It's either get bored seeing someone keep winning endlessly and tirelessly for 8 years, or watch someone win for 4.5 and lose for the other 3.5. I'll take the latter. At least there's a shift there.

It's not so much about W's and L's as it is about having a meaningful character arc. We've been riding this carousel for how many seasons now? I get that dude's an addict and addiction is a vicious cycle but it's exhausting and not always great TV for me.

That said - these are always my complaints when the show is spinning its wheels, but I think it stopped doing that about half an episode ago. So for the moment I'm good

I get it that it's this show's general thesis that people don't change. It worships at the altar of the Sopranos in that respect. But if the point of her story every time since Season 4 is that she's a horrible mother and human being who gets no joy out of her children and life in general, then really, what's the point of showing story more than once? The notes aren't changing, so I don't need the same song and dance.

Likewise, if every episode from here on out is Don trying to make it work at the agency, but still failing and flailing and eventually getting his walking papers at the end of the half season, even if its for some obscure reason unrelated to his drinking, then, again, what's the point?

maybe it's just because i really want him to come back and be the boss again as a better person.

I literally had my head in my hands when Don was getting slizzard in his office. That was pretty low.

What I fear most though is if the show has Don continuously catching L's for this first seven set of episodes and has Don get redeemed and have him make a come up for the final seven episodes. That IMO would be some cornball shit.

not to his old self but to his new "i've learned so much from all of this" self...i hope they don't wait until the second half of this season to get to that.

at least to me he has...

but he's still catching L's so he obviously hasn't completely hit bottom. him relapsing into fucking up, getting drunk or cheating and then waking up the next day, cleaning himself up and walking into the office looking like Dapper Don has happened so many times it's getting a little tiring.

The first time was in Season 4 when he was a raging drunk going off on benders and eating copious amount of french fries. Then he kicked the booze by writing in his journal and swimming.

Then of course he hit bottom again last season.

Which was my problem with last season; I'd seen all this stuff before in Season 4.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Sure Don is a big pile of fail at this point but it's interesting to see how some of the others are coming along.

Peggy is paying the cost to be the boss.

Joan is working her way into a new position and transitioning Dawn into her old job.

Pete's striving for that California dream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8QZFdh8-7k

To me, it's more satisfying and realistic. Everyone has their ups & downs in real life, and the downs make the ups more rewarding. You really didn't feel good for him when Sally told Don she loves him in the Valentine's Day ep? That's a HUGE W for him in my book.

Mad Men's first couple of seasons featured Don Draper as the epitome of cool; well-dressed, generally calm yet aggressive when he needed to be, irresistible to the ladies, and having the creative energy to propel an advertising firm to the next level. It was fun to watch him be so damn suave, in the same vein as James Bond or Steve McQueen. He was the prototypical 1950's man's man. Which is for some reason a character type that nowadays is rarely seen in television/movies.

It's much more common to find male characters portrayed as bumbling idiots who can't catch a break, awkward misfits who are the butt of jokes, and pitiful characters who get walked all over without standing up for themselves. I was watching Louie earlier which is a perfect example: a fat loser who has no backbone and is like an 8th grade band geek around women. I've seen this character in many popular shows though such as Hello Ladies, Wilfred, Silicon Valley, Masters of Sex, etc.

It's rare to see a smooth player like Don Draper on television, and that was one of the main draws of the show for me originally. I'm still watching because I'm a sucker for period pieces, I like some of the other characters, I've invested time into the story, and I'm hoping Don comes out on top, but it does suck to see a character that was the image of masculinity become just another male wimp catching L's.

Perhaps it's a sign of the times and his generation of men couldn't keep up with the changing world, but I agree that the protagonist should come out on top and we've focused too much time on Don's downward spiral. If I'm rooting for a character to win I want him to win.


By the way, no need to justify why you watch the show. I hate the argument of "well if you don't like it, stop watching it." I've got a couple shows I watch that I hate, maybe I enjoy hating shows. Maybe my cousin is the producer of the show, maybe I've been kidnapped and the torturer is forcing me to watch a show. If people don't like something, let them criticize it. If you don't like it maybe you shouldn't read their post.

thanks though....I was pissed at what I watched, and used this as a soundboard to vent. Then I headed to the airport and flew out for a project. I have been around here long enough not to take what people say seriously. I respect everyone's opinions, and feel they should have them, even when I do not agree with them. As long as they have smart logic, then I am good.

There are enough sad stories in real life. My philosophy is to watch TV to escape the norm. The character used to be a great one, and now it has been mired in one sad shit after the other. Weiner and his guys have the right to write what they want, and me as a viewer can opt out when I want. It is life. I am done watching it week to week. I will watch a marathon sometime after it ends. But for now, I am good.

I will keep coming on here to read views (not on this show though, till I catch up), because I like coming on PTP and the Okaysports for shits and giggles. I enjoy people who have diff views from me, because sometimes I learn something, or it forces me to peep something that I normally wouldn't give two shits about.

while i disagree that this show is "shitty", it can become a bit tiresome to see Don keep failing, and some of the story lines are kind of dull and pointless. Like Betty, who was a major character at first, now it just seems like they give her pity scenes and her world doesn't really connect/segue into Don's or the SCDP office characters.

I actually fell asleep watching the season opening episode. Parts of it just dragged. I had to rewatch. It's better the second time, I was able to make order out of the chaos.

While I've grown to love Mad Men for more than Don Draper, I do hope and kind of expect that the series finale will have a good ending for Don. Its good to see that he's human and NOT invincible, but I think its time to see him bounce back.

Should have waited a day for Roger. Cooper doesn't do shit but occupy that office all day and collect Asian fetish art.

SLOW DOWN BERTRAM YOU KILLIN' 'EM

It's funny too, he really must have slowed down on the drinking because he was VISIBLY drunk and that RARELY happens especially w/the amount of liquor he poured in that can, although I guess he could have refilled a few times.

This season is finally coming to a simmer.

'The Monolith' - First thing my nerd-brain goes to is 2001, so I was steady trying to peep the Kubrick references. Didn't come up with much, aside from the elevator doors, a couple rocketship references, and maybe a slight HAL vibe from the potential doom this computer subplot is bringing.

L the fuck OL at the creative department getting pissed off about having a computer. From a 2014 perspective that's like a carpenter resenting his hammer.

Equally hilarious is Lou's ninja-like ability to be completely fucking useless without drawing any attention to the fact. Pete's hairline contributed more to that Burger Chef meeting than that guy did.

It was painful watching Don have to start from scratch. It'd be one thing if he was doing this at a brand new firm, but these are former peers and mentors who are steady shitting on him just because they can. SCDP gotta be one of the pettiest work environments in TV history.

That said, if you can take the personal politics out of the equation, I think this is good for him. I didn't cringe in the least once he actually sat down at the typewriter to bang out those tags. He almost looked halfway happy with what he had in that moment, which I think is the basic lesson he'll have to learn if he wants to survive this season.

Freddy Rumsen just came in and crushed buildings with this one. That wasn't just a pep talk he gave Don, it was a goddamn Jeezy track. Do the work! Yeeeeeeaaaaaah!

Roger's shit was wild this week too. We always talk about how amazingly talented Don is but when you see how well Roger can gel in pretty much any environment you put him in (with the exception of being a father/husband/guy who doesn't sing to party guests in blackface) you get a sense that he's got some of that magic too. Tough stuff but so fun to watch.

Oh and 'On a Carousel' was about one of the most perfect tracks they've ever closed with. How pumped were they when they cleared that one.

- like I had an actual stake in this terrible dude's life.

- Its so crazy to see everyone literally taking shits on Don's head wherever they can. I can only imagine what will happen if he ever gets his spot back. Peggy better watch out.

- I love how Freddy Rumsen came in with that real. You know you never have to have another drink again?! That shit was stone cold! Dude is a walking reminder of where you could very well end up.

- Roger and his Daughter are so much alike he can't even see it. Mona was like NOPE, i'm gone fuck this bullshit. Great little interaction between them and that final ether for Roger's soul excellent.

- Pete trying dog, he's trying to win. Trudy ain't even tell him his father in-law had a heart attack. He's really out there on his own, and I think the reality of it hit him for the first time.

- Yo they seriously hate don.

I'm over here like DON'T YOU MOVE THAT COUCH, DON. DON'T DO IT! YOU WANNA BE OFFICIAL FURNITURE MOVER FOR THESE ASSHOLES THE REST OF YOUR LIFE?!! AHHH DAMNNN HE'S MOVING THE COUCH!!! WHY? WHYYYYYY???

LOUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!

I mean, aside from the nastiness of Vodka mixed with even a remnant of Coke

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Only losers and herbs believe that OKP = Fun with Words + People's Emotions

a true testament to what a shitty, syrupy, enamel-eating, battery-acid beverage option that Coca-Cola is since the day they took out the key ingredient which birthed its catchy name.

>I'm over here like DON'T YOU MOVE THAT COUCH, DON. DON'T DO
>IT! YOU WANNA BE OFFICIAL FURNITURE MOVER FOR THESE ASSHOLES
>THE REST OF YOUR LIFE?!! AHHH DAMNNN HE'S MOVING THE COUCH!!!
>WHY? WHYYYYYY???
>
>LOUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!

Just not in the way I intended

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

- Bert tried to hit him by saying they were fine without him. The reality is that before Don left it was the agency he built, the way he wanted to build it. When he came back...its still the agency Don built, the way he wanted to build it. Bert is trying to throw in his face the fact that they successfully managed to not run the aircraft carrier into a coral reef. Bra-fucking-vo. Don's insecurity left him vulnerable in that moment, but a fully recharged Don would have asked Bert exactly how the fuck have they managed to stay stagnant the whole time and what part Bert had in the non-growth.

- Peggy went from working for Captain America to working for Captain Kangaroo and she hasnt made any of Don's self-destructive life choices. In fact, she's been a model soldier taking orders and marching to Lou's beat like a guard at Buckingham Palace. Yet she still cant be what Don was while he was drowning himself in booze and extramarital vaginal secretion.

- Joan, as I said above, is mad that Don reminds her of
A) the lengths she went to in order to get a partnership vote
B) the fact that she never had to power to make those lengths translate into tangible benefit for the company.
Don didnt debase himself as a sacrifice for the good of the company, he did it out of weakness. Yet there he was, wielding the kind of influence she will never have and reminding her that the one thing from which she was able to derive some power is something the company has no use for. She played her Ace in the hole and won a pyrrhic victory.

- Lou is just a loser. He knows it, everyone else at least suspects it, and he knows that too.

Basically Don reminds everybody except Roger of just how much they arent MVP caliber.

...and because of people "like" Don, they're now all afraid of actual creative people, because their main two creators had personal issues that took them out of the game so to speak...Don had his breakdown and the other dude just seed to get tired of it all and is hiding in the California branch...

they all show how afraid they are of Don each episode, and won't admit they need him if the buisness is to really grow like it had been....

...i'm not really sure what Burt and Roger even DO at the company these days other than the name recognition....i can understand why Hamlin's character always seems irritated with all of them...

i'm still a lil suprised that more clients haven't asked for Don, or maybe that's something they haven't shown us yet...

...right now, they have "humble" Don, but as he reasserts himself it's gonna be a real problem for these folks kicking him while he's down...

My heart agrees but my head is like hold up.

Because we haven't really seen that the company is struggling financially, have we? I feel like things were more hectic when Don was there, which generally contributed to the drama in the hail mary passes he'd throw in the last quarter. Everything was always falling apart and Don would swoop in to save the day. The next crisis was always right around the corner.

The partners even described Lou as "adequate", which tells me clients aren't unhappy with the work and business is at least stable. There's no glory or drama in it, but just because they're not getting awards doesn't mean they're failing. I think what we're seeing is the company settling into a mediocre groove which could be quite profitable for all we know.

Don will either be amazing or a trainwreck but he's not the adequate type. What's good for business isn't always good for TV drama, ya know?

they are really not interested in the drama the creatives bring and would rather have that sure fire adequate, rather than the hit or miss highs and lows of the award winning creatives..BUT, as Roger pointed out an episode ago, they don't want people like Don screwing them out of clients, so they need to keep them around... i think they like the slow and steady pace they're going and don't want that other, more rocketship approach...i think they don't hate Don, i think they're all tired of what Don represented and the control he had, in both bringing them up and bringing them down....they figured out how to make it work without Don, and are trying to go towards an age where they don't need anyone like Don again...things were more like a rollercoaster when Don was THAT dude, and that had to be scary for all the other partners...but neither company would exist in it's current state without Don, that's just a fact...

She thinks it's Don's fault that the "love of her life" went off to California.

Ted ran away from Peggy like she was carrying ebola

Is she under the impression he didnt *choose* to leave?

Ted came to her himself and said "I can't be here, I'm
leaving..."

Peggy even said, in that scene, "was this Don's
choice?" or something like that in her state of denial.
Then Ted set her straight. So she literally has not one single
reason to believe it was Don's fault at all.

Don made Ted look silly, and gave credit to Frank Gleason and not Peggy for the ad concept. Even though they got the work, Don was an enormous jackass in that ep, I think Peggy's loathed him ever since (rightfully so).

he's like the father she was acceptance from

In feeling like he's never truly appreciated what she's done for him. In terms of bailing him out (literally) covering for him, giving him great ideas and feeling like he never fully got what she meant to him until that time when she left the office.

Plus there's a bit of jealousy there too, just like folks have said she believes that she can do what Don does and still have a functional life. Then she starts looking at her life and the way she's handling things and she's coming up short.

Also he's basically treated her like she's not as good as she is.

and just like any adolescent, she's going through that phase where she needs to tear down daddy, to figure out who she is. I'm guessing by the end of the series, she'll come back around and be able to appreciate all that Don's done for her while acknowledging he wasn't perfect.

Does he still get paid out? One of the rules sounded like the firm would just absorb his shares and he wouldn't get a dime, in which case I don't understand why he didn't just take that offer from the other firm...

if he breaks the stipulations they carved out for him. thing is, it's still a sweeter deal for him if he stays and manages not to fuck up. it is also still the house he built so pride won't let him walk away from all that.

had they fired him before they laid out those stipulations they would have had to buy him out. but if he had left willingly, i think he could have sold his shares on his own at that point. 'least i don't see why he couldn't have.

but yea he's at risk of losing EVERYTHING.

he won't have any of his shares though

Lou gives her the Burger Chef assignment and tells her to put the team together anyway you want, it just has to include Don. She deliberately chooses the most clueless guy in the office to work with Don, then stands and both of them on the couch and gives them the assinine "homework assignment", then hides in her office so doesn't have to deal any of it, and then complains to Joan about the situation she's in.

Lou might be spineless, but Peggy is spineless and spiteful.

It's the age old "just because you're really good at what you do doesn't necessarily mean you'd be good at managing people who do what you do" thing. Most managers I've worked for in my line of work have been excellent at their jobs and climbed the ladder because of it, but they had absolutely NO people skills and had no idea how to properly motivate, delegate, nor macro-manage.

i wonder if she could have gamed Don into helping


she pulled a power play that i'm not sure was neccessary
he could have found out later he wasnt in charge

i'm like 'm on this assignment
i want this account
i dont CARE how we get it
Don always has the ideas
i'm getting those damn ideas
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Like Don's a dick, but it was a bad way to talk to a Partner in any kind of firm.

If she just phrased it on some, 'Its a big account, I want to do good, they said I could have anyone, I asked for the best" with some of the other good creatives.

When he had the juice there were plenty of times when Don would sit everyone around the table as equals THEN be a dick after they gave him their ideas, lo).

Out the gate she fucked up



>i wonder if she could have gamed Don into helping
>
>
>she pulled a power play that i'm not sure was neccessary
>he could have found out later he wasnt in charge
>
>i'm like 'm on this assignment
>i want this account
>i dont CARE how we get it
>Don always has the ideas
>i'm getting those damn ideas
>~~~~
>When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so
>that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
>~~~~
>You cannot hate people for their own good.

Not in a way that seemed like a power play, but i also know its different because everyone always knew he was in charge.

because she wants him to respect her but she has no clue how to act to get that respect. although even before that they showed her being a shitty manager. she sucks at leading the other folks too. they still do a good job but she's basically mean to them and doesn't motivate them at all. she has no clue how to lead a team...they've made a point of showing that several times. i guess it could be seen as a woman struggling to get respect in a man's world but it comes off as Peggy's own issue and nothing else. she's somehow developed a shitty personality over the years. i guess she picked it up from Don but she has none of his charm. he can be a dick but he still wins you over at the end of the day.

>. she's somehow developed a shitty
>personality over the years. i guess she picked it up from Don
>but she has none of his charm. he can be a dick but he still
>wins you over at the end of the day.

right, and i think that's why she's really mad...her homelife sucks, and at work she realizes she'll never really be at the top because it's male dominated and she simply doesn't have the charm or management skills to pull it off....she a great ad woman, but that's IT...Don and the boys can be assholes, but they're all charming with it all...they flip the switch off an on in a way peggy can't....i love the way this show shows us Peggy and Joan both wanting to be better respected professionally, but each person has gifts the other doesn't and if they worked together more, they'd be a powerhouse combo

but can't sell like Peggy can.the thing is Joan actually does have a ton of skill just not in being an Account person. she runs all the books and keeps the office in order. in a later decade she would have had a high ranking position without having to pimp her way into the partnership. she basically runs all of their Operations. that's no small feat even for a firm of that size.

Lou and Jim are gonna have a hell of a time covering up Don's dick print on their foreheads

Jim amd Lou will be lucky if they are still employed by the time the hiatus arrives.


.






And jesus christ Ginsburg

And the electronic waves from the com-pyoot-OR infiltrated his nipples and interfered with his Martian telepathy.

stan killing ol bitchass lou's cartoon and sally dropping ether on betty had me dying.

and most of all it looks like swag season has returned! two bad bitches at the same damn time!

in the first one, don was the one being handled. in the second, don was in the drivers seat.

wtf Ginsberg wtf
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

for some odd reason i knew that box didn't have a gift in it...having him go insane seems to have come out of nowhere though. maybe they just didn't know what to do with him in the show.

He's always been more than a little loopy. I didn't know they'd take it *this* kinda far but him going insane over something like that is a natural progression for him, I'd say.

his loopiness was definitely there but that was just some querky geek shit, this is a whole other level of craziness. he genuinely looked calm as shit from having chopped off his nipple and he handed that shit to Peggy. he didn't show signs of any of that.

not saying that doesn't happen in real life (people go crazy, it is what it is) i'm just wondering why they went this route with him.

So it really wasn't out of nowhere.

And it had been building up over time. On way more than just the geeky/weird tip.

..and not outside his character arc. It's a little over the top but I can see the progression in the character.

That said, I am definitely *sad* to see Ginsberg go that route. I loved him as a character and thought he was hysterical, and kind of wish they fleshed him out a bit more in his home life/romantic life. But I guess time is of the essence at this point.

i didnt see that at all
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

left a lot of room for interpretation with his character, since he hasn't had much of a known story arc at the forefront of the show for like 2 seasons now. So it's reasonable to maybe assume that if he went this crazy over the computer, maybe some shit was going on behind the scenes that the writers just didn't have time to show, but now figure we can ascertain because of how he ended up.

And, even better, maybe we'll get more context in the coming episodes (though I doubt it) since it's not over yet.

Although who knows...maybe he had a bad acid trip at some point

Cause it was shocking


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

he been crazy. the paranoia form the computer just drove him deeper

My nigga had a threesome with two bad bitches, one of which was his wife with her sexy skinny ass. Then burst into the meeting uninvited like a boss and spit that true game. Lou even had to bow down.

that motherfucker is worth anything to anyone. He was born on 3rd base and acting like he hit a triple with his position at SC&P. Don put that bitch ass in his rightful place.

http://www.vulture.com/2014/05/mad-men-ginsberg-was-always-struggling-nipple-box.html

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Only losers and herbs believe that OKP = Fun with Words + People's Emotions

I didn't remember specifics but I remember that he was always fucking nuts. So this was not "out of nowhere" at all.

I was like holy shit!

.

This:

"Sterling Cooper, Sterling Cooper Draper Price, SC&P — these are not supportive, holistic work places, or bastions of mental health and stability. Lane hanged himself in his office. Alcoholism is a given. Drug use is rampant. Depression and anxiety are as present as linoleum and fluorescent lights, and emotional and verbal abuse might as well be named partners. A man once had his foot severed in a riding-lawn-mower accident, and the art department once threw X-acto knives at each other; Ginsberg, the only sober one, winds up stabbing Stan anyway. Good luck standing out as "the crazy guy" in this environment. Ginsberg's been a wreck for a long time, it just never seemed like a problem before — which points to one of the recurring themes of the season: How bad would things have to be before someone does something? How broken will Megan and Don's relationship have to be before one of them attempts to change anything? How much can Sally act out before something really bad happens? How long can SC&P keep Don on such a short leash? Betty's ready for a change, she says, but she doesn't know what, exactly. No one gets along with Lou — how long can that stay the same? "It's time for a conversation," we heard in the season premiere, but no one seems to be having much of a conversation. Instead, there's just a nipple in a box."



...
So we should be calling for straight jackets for everyone because at any moment anyone could do anything
Comparatively he doesn't stand out in that crowd until the nipple
The writer points this out
Which means it did come out of nowhere
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

This paragraph was pulled out of context. It made the point that on top of the fact that Ginsberg was insane on his own, SC&P wasn't a very understanding or coddling environment...so it's even MORE sensible that someone who already clearly had mental problems would do something drastic.

It's hard to see him as any nuttier than the rest
They are all nuts
They had a suicide and gave Don that very office
The most recent break to crazy
They showed Lane cracking up
Not so much Ginsberg until now
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

The writer made the point that his insanity should have stuck out even in an office full of self-absorbed crazy people. He told Peggy that he was from Mars and told a date that he was a virgin and had no friends or hobbies.

the writer did state it

there is no should have

the office is full of nuts
its a place full of people struggling

he did not stand out
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

We are definitely reading it differently. I guess I see where you're coming from, I just think he *did* stand out. In other words I always saw that office as being full of degenerates and chronically unhappy people, and a few of them being a little crazy....and of all the personalities there I always thought Ginsberg was the strangest and most insane. So that's why I saw it as a somewhat natural progression for him to really go off the deep-end. If Stan had done something like that, I would've surely thought it came out of nowhere.

Though, that said, I guess no matter what level of crazy you're dealing with, it's always gonna be a surprise when someone presents a female co-worker with a box-o-nipple from their own chest. So, it could go either way.

I just really don't think it came out of "nowhere," is all.

All of the shit listed in the article (and not the concluding paragraph, btw) regarding Ginsburg has been there and bubbling beneath the surface.

Just because it didn't have a big-ass "HEY YOU GUYS THIS IS A SEED WE'RE PLANTING SO REMEMBER THIS LATER ON LIKE SERIOUSLY DON'T FORGET THIS" flag on it doesn't mean that it wasn't previously established... it's always been there. The only way this shit "comes from out of nowhere" is if it was established that Ginsburg was a straight arrow, a by-the-book company dude who showed up to work every day in his suit and tie, did his job, then left. He isn't that guy.

Ginsburg has always been a little "touched." He's not a Ken Cosgrove, or a Harry Crane, or a Pete. He's not a straitlaced ad man, he's a "young creative," so he's always been off. This behavior is 100% not out of the question for his character. He's always been a paranoid sort; that paranoia was only exacerbated with the presence of the new supercomputer -- along with Lou and Cutler talking in the room with the supercomputer in it.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Only losers and herbs believe that OKP = Fun with Words + People's Emotions

>Ginsburg has always been a little "touched." He's not a Ken
>Cosgrove, or a Harry Crane, or a Pete.


none of these guys are "normal"
the office is headed by a bunch of nut jobs
the premise of the whole show is how they are all "mad" men

no dude didn't stand out until this incident
no we don't need anyone "leading" us

but you also absolutely don't get to say "oh this was obvious"

yeah sure title the show mad men
and have folks play guessing games that not the alcoholic sex addict or the other alcoholic sex addict
or the power mad
or ladder climbing
or drug addled
petty managing comic book creating hurt feelings
childish 12 year old behaving
meeting crashing...
ones are going to be the ones to crack up

because its an office full of straight laced professionals

sure...right

we definitey aren't watching the same show
call mad man
singular
for only the guy who committed suicide of course
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Cosgrove was injured in a freak accident hunting with a crazy client. It's not like he cut his own eye out.

Jesus Christ.

You wanna just be wrong on this, or nah?

___________________________________________________________________________________________
Only losers and herbs believe that OKP = Fun with Words + People's Emotions

i always wondered how they put up w/ him.

His voice and mannerisms made him seem like some New York stand-up comic who would've been writing jokes for Rodney Dangerfield or something. Which had been bothering me this season especially because it made him seem like this one-dimensional comic relief character who was off-key in a way I couldn't articulate. I guess this was the explanation but I'm still on the fence as to whether I buy it or not.

Schizophrenia?

He's back gunning for that #1 spot of worst manager in the world. Peggy is still holding strong; for the petty shit with Don in the beginning of the ep, not for the stuff with Ginsburg.

And hey, another Betty story where the only "point" is that she's a horrible mother and person. This is still my only problem with this season. She serves no point beyond being a delivery system for stuff with Sally.

No diss, but I suggest you go watch the scene in the kitchen again, then see if you come back with the same complaints about Betty's "lack of growth," which, if I'm being real, I've always seen as a weird complaint.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Only losers and herbs believe that OKP = Fun with Words + People's Emotions

and due to that, project it as if her story has always been the same. I know I hate her, and at times due to that hate I get bored with her storylines, since I'd rather the time be spent in the office or with Don or Roger in general.

But - you're right about her storyline not being the same. This whole season, the story with her has been her perceived boredom with being just a pretty housewife, sparked by her conversation at lunch with what's her name in Betty's first scene of the season.

So while people may hate her and/or be bored with her, this story is not in ANY way the same for her. She's clearly, finally, fighting back a little and looking for a little individuality and is bored with the role she has always had, both with Don and now with Henry. I don't know where they'll take it or how it will end, but it's certainly new ground for her. Doesn't make her story any less "whatever" in some people's eyes (including mine...like I said I'd rather they use that time in the office), but it's new.

and it's not that it was subtle or anything.

There's definitely something going on with Betts right now.

>No diss, but I suggest you go watch the scene in the kitchen
>again, then see if you come back with the same complaints
>about Betty's "lack of growth," which, if I'm being real, I've
>always seen as a weird complaint.
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>Only losers and herbs believe that OKP = Fun with Words +
>People's Emotions

>And hey, another Betty story where the only "point" is that
>she's a horrible mother and person. This is still my only
>problem with this season. She serves no point beyond being a
>delivery system for stuff with Sally.

Terrible that should care about Sally's nose. But props to Sally for pointing out her mother's bullshit, that was great.

I hope we see Betty turn a page, and for the better, because her character is like zZzzZz...
She's still in a marriage for power and looks, and until she realizes there's more to a relationship/marriage than the superficial, she'll continue to be miserable and spread her bad energy around.

But yo, for a minute there I thought they were gonna show us the "real" Lou and redeem him in some way. Like maybe he's what happens to Ken Cosgrove in 20 years. I love how they took this cute little cartoon character and used it to mine even deeper depths of Lou's fuckboy qualities.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

- How did people miss ginsbergs breaking. Dude said he was hearing voices and was beaming up to the mothership. This is 1969 and those phrases weren't in the lexicon of determiners for mental health at the time. So its REALLY easy for the other characters to miss it, but Weiner used those words and phrases specifically to point out that homie was in the midst of real mental health situation. I didn't think it would get this far, but wow.

- Betty is a petulant child yes, but she's also starting to find her voice. Remember Betty's been ignored literally her entire adult life, and after being fat and coming back and starting to see her other housewife peers start to do more life fulfilling things she's recognized that she too could have some of that. Or at least she has ideas about things. She's no longer the trophy wife that you take to things and not allow her speak. She's what will become the loud voice conservatism that was born in opposition to Vietnam. Betty is super interesting right now, because she's still a terrible mother who has absolutely no clue how much damage she's done to her children, but she's also going to be an incredibly important female voice in the next few years.

- I don't know if Don's back, but we know he is possibly maybe accepting that there are ways for him to within his current situation.

- Lawd Megan is a gangly woman. Watching her be so insecure around a pregnant homeless woman (at her base) was damn revolting and sad. She's dying for acceptance but going about it in all the wrong ways for Don. She's further and further down the path that all women who love Don Draper go down. This is the beginning of the end for them.

- Lou sucks a ton, not a little bit, but a ton. He's the worst.

He's TERRIBLE at his job, doens't particularly seem to enjoy it. He has a 2yr contract so it's not like he needs to get rid of Don. So what's his problem? He's clearly just collecting a check at the end of a seemingly long career.

WTF is his goal here, in trying to FORCE Don out, permanently?

Remember, Cutler's a bean counter at heart. He knows Lou does good work - not GREAT work - but good work. Remember, Cutler himself even said "Lou is . . . adequate" as his highest form of praise to the dude.

Cutler wants to show off something that he's thought all along - that creative "geniuses" aren't worth the trouble. He got Lou in to basically warm a chair and make sure the work gets out. Lou doesn't give a damn, he was at the end of his career, and wanted one last ride as a CD before he went on to cartoon millions- the only condition was that he wouldn't have to work with any primadonnas like Don.

Then he realized there's way more going on than he signed up for and his peace and quiet skate isn't that at all.

He's pissed off and is incredibly threatened by Don. I need him to get that comic offer and break out.

This week was another pigeon shooting moment for her. I love when she bucks up like this – it doesn't necessarily make her a less horrible person but it does make her a hell of a lot more interesting. She was kicking that Lucille Bluth ether with Sally, and running some proto-Fox News game at the dinner party.

And look at her party and then look at Megan's. Even though they had zero interaction this ep I felt a kinship between Don and Betty. They're both looking like relics of a bygone era trying to clutch onto the past tighter than ever in order to survive. Betty with her politics, Don with his career. I guess ultimately it all comes down to authority.

I mean she's speaking her mind, regardless of who hears it. She's tired of being muted and during this time of what is crazy social unrest and change sit at home and be quiet moms are changing and finding their voice and Betty is no different.

I'm not sure if Betty's holding onto the past or attempting to carve out some new space for herself going forward.

I think Don is the one who's holding onto the past. Whether that's past glory, past position, or past swag but he could also be in a place of trying to carve out his own space in this new landscape or computers and the lack of importance of add men.

...watching Megan dance. Dude genuinely looked scared and lost.

For like the first time he saw that she had an entire life outside of him with all sorts of inside jokes and friends and intimacies that he just never thought about. That face was the realization that she MADE a whole life for herself.

One of the main conceits of the show is that Don is an amazing salesman but I'm not sure his pitch to the cigarette guys was as strong as the scene implied. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I *think* maybe the purpose of the ep ending with him hailing a cab is significant because

A.) He looks boss as FUCK calling for that taxi

and yet

B.) ... We never actually see the taxi pull up

That's a good damn cliffhanger because it makes me question if his powers are still what he seems to think they are. (That or the money they spent on the fake severed nipple didn't leave room in the budget for a cab)

Anyway I'm #TeamCutler this particular instance because I don't think this is gonna save him in any sense of the word.

Best case scenario: Don keeps his job, but it'll mean publicly shaming himself as a man and a brand, which will likely lose him some of his more progressive clients while further entrenching him into the good ol' boy world of Season 1. That's not really progress and I question whether it's even "winning"

Dude should've kept his eyes on the prize with IBM, imo

>B.) ... We never actually see the taxi pull up
>
>That's a good damn cliffhanger because it makes me question if
>his powers are still what he seems to think they are.

Was kinda thinking that could've gone either way as I watched as well. Like...are they trying to paint him as powerful, cause I'm not sure I saw it that way.


>Dude should've kept his eyes on the prize with IBM, imo

The roadblock was too big, I think.

Either he tanks the deal a deal they were crafting specifically to force him out. OR he ingratiates himself w/this HUGE new account.

It's win - win.

They were forcing him out anyway. So if he loses his job over this at least he gets a "fuck you" on his way out.

or whatever they call that place. there's the ad right there.

edit: all it took for Pete to start catching Ls was a trip back to New York.

>or whatever they call that place. there's the ad right
>there.
>
>edit: all it took for Pete to start catching Ls was a trip
>back to New York.

Ya boy Bob came back HARD, didn't he? Dude thought he had a perfect beard in Joannie, but Joan still hankering for romance and shit, lol

Also, Trudy was back, word up

And Pete's girl was mad, b: "You're not going to fuck your way out of this." Well, pardon me, my Mile High friend, for thinking all it took for you to get some Act Right was some of these Pete Campbells, ah well, back to L.A. you go

Still can't get a bead on where Don and Megan are headed, which I'm sure will be chalked up to "inconsistent writing," but I'd actually say is more like "real life," since this up-down thing happens a lot with couples, and people in general

Of course any Don-Peggy quiet moments are golden

And the closing shot was boss

It's looking like "Don getting his swag back, YESSSSS!" doesn't seem to be the point of these 7 episodes

___________________________________________________________________________________________
Only losers and herbs believe that OKP = Fun with Words + People's Emotions

>It's looking like "Don getting his swag back, YESSSSS!"
>doesn't seem to be the point of these 7 episodes

'least that's where i'm at with it...him getting his swag back could be as simple as him finding some sorta peace and not hitting rock bottom all over again...and again...and again...

where he was this past episode seems like a good start.

>'least that's where i'm at with it...him getting his swag back
>could be as simple as him finding some sorta peace and not
>hitting rock bottom all over again...and again...and again...
>
>where he was this past episode seems like a good start.

I kinda like the current direction of his storyline. He's not jumping right back into being the man, he's kinda starting from scratch and mending friendships as he goes. That moment with Peggy was chill-inducing. And the three of them at the end there at Burger Chef laughing and joking was also really, really good I thought. Good episode.

pretty cool to see where they are now considering where they all started.

>I kinda like the current direction of his storyline. He's not
>jumping right back into being the man, he's kinda starting
>from scratch and mending friendships as he goes.


Freddy Rumsen - Mouthpiece & "sponsor"
Pete in Cali all smiles
Sally- I Love you Dad.
Roger brought him back to work.
Cosgrove - No Problem
Creative Team - All Smiles upon his return
Harry (All I do is Win)Crane - Gave him the scoop on Phillip Morris
Peggy - My Way slow dance.


That moment
>with Peggy was chill-inducing.

The Don & Peggy dance was Father/Daughter or Old Friends platonic right? For a moment I got a flashback of secretary Peggy saying she was DTF Don, and with Megan seemingly moving on collecting her fondue pot made me nervous for a second. I am sure they just bonded as equals with a lot of history as shown by the final scene w/ Pete, but I for one never want to see Peggy/Don hookup.






And the three of them at the
>end there at Burger Chef laughing and joking was also really,
>really good I thought. Good episode.

>The Don & Peggy dance was Father/Daughter or Old Friends
>platonic right? For a moment I got a flashback of secretary
>Peggy saying she was DTF Don, and with Megan seemingly moving
>on collecting her fondue pot made me nervous for a second. I
>am sure they just bonded as equals with a lot of history as
>shown by the final scene w/ Pete, but I for one never want to
>see Peggy/Don hookup.

That's how I saw it at least. I never want to see that hookup, either. It's perfect as is and that was an amazing moment.

If they were equals that whole thing wouldn't have happened. Peggy was tripping because despite all of her accomplishments, her moves she in her heart of hearts knows that Don's the man for a reason. She's trying to get there still. She thought she'd made it, but now she's seeing that even with all this, she doesn't have that genius that he has and she's still trying to tap into it.

Great scene though, maybe she won't treat him like garden shit anymore.

Partner? This fuckin guy.

He just has 0 ppl skills. In the real world he wouldn't get this far, but in a TRUE meritocracy, he's getting exactly what he deserves.

Which has never not delighted me

I mean, besides make Jim Culter and Lou gay for each other.

which they poopoo'd ten years ago
but he's the damn money maker now
and they won't admit it


very TV = todays WEB
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

He was one of the more sympathetic characters during the first three seasons. He only became on asshole once he got sent out to L.A. It's funny how California made Harry Crane a dick, but turned Pete into an adult.

>In the real world he wouldn't get
>this far, but in a TRUE meritocracy, he's getting exactly what
>he deserves.

his ascent is probably a realistic view of what would happen...he would have been made partner when Pete was if he was better with people. you can only keep a man down so long if he keeps bringing home the profits.

>his ascent is probably a realistic view of what would
>happen...he would have been made partner when Pete was if he
>was better with people. you can only keep a man down so long
>if he keeps bringing home the profits.

he seemed happy about something Joan indadvertedly revealed. I'm guessing it had to do with the guy in the spa that was all in his face but I didn't quite put it together.

Bob mentioned it inadvertantly to Joan but she didn't quite catch it. Sterling did tho.

Sounds like they're gonna make a move for Buick, but what was the point of bringing up Don and Phillip Morris?

and he was nervous about Buick. He knew SC&P was losing the Chevy account & Buick was going to go after Bob Benson. Because SC&P did good work on Chevy and now will have a "guy" on the inside they would be in prime position for someting else coming along from GM (or Buick) which must have been a bigger fish in those days.

I think if he can find a way to attach himself and/or Don to this upcomning account he will make himself relevant again or save Don before Cutler finds a way to push him out for the Phillip Morris account.


I am upset that there wasn't even a quick interaction between Pete & Bob while they were both in town. Even a look throug the board room glass as one walked by would have been awkard and funny.

Buick and Benson? Where did Buick even hear about Benson from? Just his work with Chevy in DET?

i guess being in the GM umbrella doesn't mean they'd all use the same ad agency but i was wondering why Buick would go with SC&P instead of going the route that Chevy is going. anyway, thanks for clarifying...so now Sterling will work his magic to get them Buick and place Don right in the middle of it. This makes sense.

They used Chevy to gauge the work from their agencies to see if they could handle Buick.

The guys from SCP and Benson in particularly did a great job so now They're taking Benson over to their side and he can bring SCP in the door.

>
>
>I am upset that there wasn't even a quick interaction between
>Pete & Bob while they were both in town. Even a look throug
>the board room glass as one walked by would have been awkard
>and funny.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I just about lost it. Nearly a knowshon Moreno situation.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

it took me until JUST now to see Pete = Bobby.

Seeing them all there eating at Burger chef at the end. That was PERFECT. There's a reason why Pete's been winning - he was a petulant little man-child before (and there's still shades of that) but he's growing up. He's taken some knocks. He's had to pick himself up from bottom, that's kinda necesarry before you can TRULY call yourself a man.

It's a similar trajectory to Don's as well. I LOVE what they're doing here.

>it took me until JUST now to see Pete = Bobby.
>

Good call.
I never though of this but the real question is , Who is Gene?!
My choice would be the other young creative guy I can't remember his name. If I remember correctly he was dressed like Don in the scene where Peggy told them she needed 25 Burger Chef tag lines each.

Or if with the scene of Don, Peggy, and Pete at the Burger Chef. Either way I would have been happy if that was the wrap, "loose ends" and all.

Because right now, I'm finding it hard to care about whether they actually get the Burger Chef account, or if the get Buick, or if they get another GM account. I'm not really all that interested in Jim Cutler's schemes to take over the agency, promote Harry, oust Don, and marginalize Roger. I'm not really all that interested in seeing if Don and Peggy nail the Burger Chef pitch, because the series isn't really been about building to one climactic event (or events).

Don't get me wrong it was an excellent hour in a largely good half-season, but I'm not I need much more.

They flounder around aimlessly until the shit is actually due and then they turn in something wonderful at the last minute. Most of the time.

My viewing experience this season (and some of last season) has mostly been
Fuck this show
Fuck this show
Who cares
Whatever
oh wait
FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELZ

Too bad the word SYMBOLISM wasn't written in frosting, I almost missed it

Don's marriage is falling apart again
Pete won't let his go
Peggy...oh peggy



~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

When Don talked about bringing some of her stuff the next time he visited, she seemed nervous. And the way she was asking him when he's going to LA seemed suspicious.

Is she hiding another man(or woman) out there?

but now that you mention it that's definitely the impression I'd take away from that exchange as well.

And she's probably okay with the idea of Don staying in NY.

Especially considering the way she said "I missed you" when Don asked her about missing NY.

she's picking stuff to take back
because you can see she doubts if she's coming back permanently

she's making moves literally
to get more comfortable in LA

she isn't trying to be too obvious about it because Don is pretty firm about not liking LA
as a permanent thing


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

she seemed to be covering up or something. i wonder where that will go.

because remember she said she wanted to have him in a place that wasn't NY (their old place and the place of their failed marriage) and not LA (her new life that she's created and built without him) she loves him she just doesn't want all the stuff that comes along with real life Don.

She's working to get just the parts of Don she wants.

Something is up

When Don said "he's loyal" im pretty sure he tactically left off "to me"

Lou is finished

Jim going up against Roger will be the end of him and then Roger's ennui with all of it will see him ride off into the sunset

I suspect Bert is going to die

And Ted cut himself out of loop going to LA

Don, Pete, Peggy, and Harry is the future

This could be spectacularly wrong of course. But thats the vibe I got.

he likes the work too much, he could never be a Bert or a Roger...i also think Joan stays in there despite how she got there. she really does run things for them on so many levels.

She's working to make a good piece of that pie for herself but the fact that she doesn't truly (well no one does really) understand or appreciate what Harry Crane brings to the table lets me know they're fucking up.

he doesn't need to be a partner to do what he does. Jim is just doing that to bring more people into the boardroom that he thinks will align with him. he doesn't realize that Crane is loyal to Don.

Jim doesn't really understand all of the office dynamics and why they were successful in the first place.

Well looks like we're going to find out.

and Roger becoming Bert. I think it may be Bert who jumps out the window. Look at how disconnected Bert already is, he's been locked away in his little cave for the whole damned show. Then look at his reaction to 'the negro problem.' lol Prolly wouldn't take much to send the old coot off. Imagine if Don, Roger, Pete & Peggy manage another coup, and freeze Bert out. WTF else has he got?

Long shot, but bear w/me. This show is all about Parental relationships. Roger's been a father figure to Don, given the age difference, I wouldn't be shocked if Bert didn't play the same role w/Roger. Now Don's done it to both Peggy & Pete, and been a big brother, of shorts to Joan.

You can see Don REALLY mentoring Peggy in the last ep, and you can see Pete's life trajectory bending towards Don's.

I kinda love it, honestly. I just don't know that's the direction they'll go.

Roger has more of a Sales Exec mentality...Pete won't ever be as charismatic as Roger but a guy in that position is who would eventually grow into a Roger role. Don will always want to be on the front lines creating copy and coming up with ideas. Roger doesn't do that. i feel like Don would walk away before becoming the "executive relationship" guy. half the time he seems miserable when he's at those lunches and dinners with clients. he'd rather be at the office doing the work.

If Ken Cosgrove wasn't so miserable he might grow into a Roger...he seems to be hating life right now though. he might go Ginsberg next if anybody does.

Kicked Roger in the ass to get him going, and then got a song-n-dance signoff. So great.

Well done. So glad they continue to surprise and delight.

The ending was perfect.

I'll also say it's been fun watching Harry Hamlin, er, ham it up as a cornball corporate asshole

I'ma miss Bert's ol' sock-wearin', racist ass

Oh, and I guess a moment of silence is also in order for Don and Megan

Waterloo, indeed

There is a Waterloo, Indiana, by the way

And lol @ Harry getting dissed twice

Kinda figured Sally would put it on the nerdy boy even though the show went out of its way to show how handsome the older dude was (they should pair him with Bob next season just to piss people off)

Good on Peggy for redeeming what had been a mostly pissy half-season

And who knows what's gonna happen with ol' Teddy Ted... shit, Ted might be the (much and annoyingly-speculated) guy falling out of the building in the opening credits...

I hate having to wait a year, man. That's a sign of some good TV.

___________________________________________________________________________________________
LET THE GAMES BEGAN

They could've milked the emotional impact, but they didn't.

I'm not very excited about another merger/buyout situation, but they might just gloss over it. At this point it shouldn't be about where the company is, but where the characters are.

Which leaves me curious about Don's fate, no Megan, back to his grind, I think the workplace drama for the series is over, so what's gonna end his story?

Seven episodes left, and while these first seven were great, it didn't move the plot ahead very far until this last episode. Mad I have to wait until next year for this.

One of my all-time favorite moments from the show was when they Oceans-11'd their way into an entirely new firm, way back in Season 2 or 3. Every ownership shuffle they've done since then has been a case of diminishing returns.

singing a song that he probably would've called collectivist filth.

Outstanding episode.

"The clients don't want to die, Ted!"

That and Pete's "Marriage is a racket" line were cracking me up. Those dudes just stay mad

>I'll also say it's been fun watching Harry Hamlin, er, ham it
>up as a cornball corporate asshole

Made him walk out with his tail between his legs, poor guy, lol

>I'ma miss Bert's ol' sock-wearin', racist ass

When he was watching the moon landing, was that his maid or lover (or both) next to him??

>Oh, and I guess a moment of silence is also in order for Don
>and Megan

I like that Megan didn't want much from Don, unlike Jane ("It's going to be very expensive")

>I'll also say it's been fun watching Harry Hamlin, er, ham it
>up as a cornball corporate asshole

"Really?" "It's a LOT of money!"

I laughed so damn hard.

Him telling Harry to fuck off twice was the best.

Cutler overdid it with the mustache-twirling. By the end, it was a rehash of Duck's fall in Season 2.

Y'all didn't want to believe me.

And all this work shit isn't gonna save him

And even if it could – Dude is still grasping to get that boss status back. I mean look: This is the buyout he never wanted, and now he's going for it because it's the only way he's gonna keep his job. Not only that, but the deal still isn't even official yet. And Ted's a fucking mess. Nothing good is gonna come of this besides a shit ton of money. Which Don hasn't really been without since Season 1 (not counting flashbacks), so that's a fairly low-stakes issue imo



It's not like the ghost of Bert Cooper showed up singing a Jeezy song, you know?

now he owns his partner share outright again and should he decided to walk away they'll just buy him out.

http://www.vulture.com/2014/05/mad-men-hear-bert-coopers-greatest-hits.html

YO.

How great would it be if EVERY episode next season ended like last night's ep

- Um did Cutler say he flew over Dresden? That seems significant if so. And fits his workplace MO

- Then dude calls Don a 'football player in a suit'. This set the tone for the whole episode for me: We're seeing the concept of masculinity and power change on this show, to the point where computers are stealing jobs, women give the presentations, astronauts are super-heroes, and the nerdy kid with the telescope kisses the girl. Cutler's underestimating Don but it's interesting that those words wouldn't have even been an insult a few years prior.

- For a second there, I really thought Betts was gonna seduce Johnny No-Shirt, bringing about the Omega Phase of her Bad Bitch Evolution.

- Also they seemed to go out of their way to show that kid as angsty... Was that just typical teen shit, or is Vietnam weighing heavy on his mind?

- Peggy killed it. Funny how "there's no TV there" could still be a selling point the day after the moon landing, when everyone was glued to their TVs with their families, being more or less not-miserable for once.

- I honestly don't see how Don could've done any better. A small part of me wonders if he would've just cracked up and started blubbering about how bad the food was at the whorehouse he grew up in

- I love seeing Roger step his game up and look out for his people. Making moves to keep his homeboy on the payroll and turn his baby momma into a mogul.

- It's gonna suck when we find out the meeting with McCann was actually an LSD trip in which Roger was just talking to a sandwich the entire time

>- For a second there, I really thought Betts was gonna seduce
>Johnny No-Shirt, bringing about the Omega Phase of her Bad
>Bitch Evolution.

LOFL. That look she gave him in the kitchen killed me. it would've been a perfect apex to what a turrbl person she is

>
>- Also they seemed to go out of their way to show that kid as
>angsty... Was that just typical teen shit, or is Vietnam
>weighing heavy on his mind?
>

I think Vietnam could be part of if, but I think they really wanted to drive home the fact that Sally was spouting someone else's thoughts to Don, and when he called her on it, it showed how far they have come in thier relationship. She heard him and didn't react negatively as she would have previously. They have a connection and an understanding now.
She was talking out of her ass and followed her heart/real feelings and was the anti Betty by making the first move, and on the "nerdy" brother of all people.

I honestly though Glenn was calling when the phone rang.

>
>- It's gonna suck when we find out the meeting with McCann was
>actually an LSD trip in which Roger was just talking to a
>sandwich the entire time
>

What a bawse.

Fuck Cutler, man.

it seemed so out of place, but a precursor to Don potentially losing his mind, altho if he hasn't done it by now, he may never do it..BUT....to me it said that the same Don, who was trippin all last season and flipped at the big meeting, is still in there, and that bothered me a bit...i hope he can control himself better

Peggy was AWESOME...everything she did was top notch...her relationship with the lil boy really was endearing, i feel bad for both of them that he's gonna be moving...

...LOL...homeboy ain't EVER gonna make partner now...hge was so close though...it's too much money on the line to cut him in now

..Joan's reason for disliking Don is funny to me...she acts like she didn't come up in a company he helped create...she acts like he didn't try to look for her at all times...i understand why she's mad, but i still think she should get over it....she makes ALOT of money we don't even really see her spending....think about it, she still lives in that lil apartment...the rest of the boys have multiple houses, go coast to coast on a whim, etc...

...i wasn't mad at dude for wanting to get rid of Don, but Joan was right, the way he was trying to do it was wrong, and he really was not thinking of the big picture at all...if Don and Ted left, that would have left them with no "face" for their creative dept.... it looked like LOU was really working on a deal with big tobacco ALL THIS TIME and when that fell through, he's worthless...

...i LOVED Roger's focus and growth these last few episodes...from trying to help his daughter, to trying to help Don, to actually steering HIS company to HIS vision of what it should be....gotta grab the baton at some point...Cooper's explanation for having Don's back was excellent btw

great episode...

- He was calling everyone out of the office. "Get out here, have you seen this?!!!" Shit was about as all out rage as we've seen him.

- His secretary is absolutely insane. God she's good.

- Yo this dude tried to be married, not in an abstract way but in a real way. He tried to confide in his wife, he tried to go to her for some emotional support and she straight up BOUNCED!!! I was like got damn, COLD GAME. Having her looking super made up in that bathing suit was no mistake. Visually showing how far apart they are. He outta here!!

- Harry Hamlin laid it all the way down this season. That dude good, seriously that dude good.

- Man I felt for Peggy fam, like I really felt for her. Her bestfriend is an 11 year old kid who's now moving to Newark. That shit was gutwrenching.

- I'm still not fucking with Joan.

- Pete is fantastic

- Harry backed the wrong horse, but honestly could you blame him.

- Ted bout to be rich, hopefully he'll get outta the dulldrums. Homie almost crashed a plane just to prove a point. That shit was hilarious.

- Sally switches between child and adult like its nothing Keirnan Shipka has grown into quite a little actress.

- Seeing Roger finally become who he was supposed to be was pretty incredible. I like who this Roger is.

- I can't wait until next year.

>- He was calling everyone out of the office. "Get out here,
>have you seen this?!!!" Shit was about as all out rage as
>we've seen him.
>
it was gully as fuck.

>- His secretary is absolutely insane. God she's good.
>
that scene was hilarious

>- Yo this dude tried to be married, not in an abstract way but
>in a real way. He tried to confide in his wife, he tried to go
>to her for some emotional support and she straight up
>BOUNCED!!! I was like got damn, COLD GAME. Having her looking
>super made up in that bathing suit was no mistake. Visually
>showing how far apart they are. He outta here!!
>
what. you can't be serious with this view/perspective on the marriage. you know he wifed her on a whim because she was the new pretty young thing? you know he wanted to control her and fought against her inability to fit into the traditional housewife role, which is why he hated her acting so much? when his lack of control over her failed, he cheated? he lied to her about getting fired? and refused to give LA a chance with her even though he loved it previously.

COME ON B. get real

>- Man I felt for Peggy fam, like I really felt for her. Her
>bestfriend is an 11 year old kid who's now moving to Newark.
>That shit was gutwrenching.
>
what? She fucn kilt that Burger Chef pitch and her relationship with the boy is more about her ability to have compassion for folk, than he being her friend.

>- I'm still not fucking with Joan.
>
her hate for Don annoyed the shit outta me, all year.

>- Pete is fantastic
>
Pete will always be a whiny dweeb to me. his character brings most of the laughs though

>- Ted bout to be rich, hopefully he'll get outta the
>dulldrums. Homie almost crashed a plane just to prove a point.
>That shit was hilarious.
>
why that fool so depressed?

>- Sally switches between child and adult like its nothing
>Keirnan Shipka has grown into quite a little actress.
>
she has gotten very good. I really dig that they made her go for the "nerd" and not the "jock". it's as though she is learning to be the alternative Betty

>- Seeing Roger finally become who he was supposed to be was
>pretty incredible. I like who this Roger is.

agreed

>what. you can't be serious with this view/perspective on the
>marriage. you know he wifed her on a whim because she was the
>new pretty young thing? you know he wanted to control her and
>fought against her inability to fit into the traditional
>housewife role, which is why he hated her acting so much? when
>his lack of control over her failed, he cheated? he lied to
>her about getting fired? and refused to give LA a chance with
>her even though he loved it previously.
>
>COME ON B. get real

That was all before and all of that was true, but right then as he sat in NYC as the lonely dude who JUST got his job back and is now being fired. He was vulnerable, he was real, he was Dick Whitman, and he found out ain't no one want that dude. It was too late, you can't be all of the things you stated above and then come back in the 9th inning and try to be married for real, yet that's what he was doing. He went to her for support and in return got divorced. In that scene dude was trying, and it was too late.
>

>what? She fucn kilt that Burger Chef pitch and her
>relationship with the boy is more about her ability to have
>compassion for folk, than he being her friend.
>
Peggy's work life and ability have never been in question, she's learned literally from the school of Draper. She's been his protege since the early days and he finally just passed the baton off. Her work life will always straighten itself out. At home though, she has no one. The kid who we thought annoyed her was literally her best friend. That's who she hung out with and it was sad for her to sit there and cry because that kid was leaving. Then she told him she'd visit all the time, that lie was as much for her as it was for him. The kid knew her too well though, he knew she worked too hard to ever come visit him.

>why that fool so depressed?

He fell in love with Peggy, then fucked around and wrecked his home life, and in return found out Don was better than him and now works with that dude. Add it all up, and you're looking square in the face at full on depression. Hopefully him doing some work will get him back.

"and i've got 10%"!!!! Pete just kills
>
>>
>she has gotten very good. I really dig that they made her go
>for the "nerd" and not the "jock". it's as though she is
>learning to be the alternative Betty
>She despises Betty, she's past the point of thinking she'll ever have a mother that she can connect with. Yet when ole by showed up Sally did her hair and some make-up to sit outside as a life guard. She's the greatest. The way she can go between Flippant towards her parents but at least still see where Don is coming from is pretty great. I imagine that at some point in her later adulthood she'll have some begrudging relationship with her.


Roger pulled a damn Power move.

when I saw Bert Cooper break out into his soft sock routine. Hell I though I was dreaming...
I actually though Matt Weiner pulled a Bobby Ewing/Dallas season on us. I expected Don to wake up on his couch with Freddy Rumsen standing over him on the day he picked him up from the office with none of this events of the past season happened. All of the happy endings, passing the baton to Peggy, selling SC&P seemed to help me believe that.

I had no idea the actor that played Bert was a highly accomplished Broadway actor/singer. His send off was great, surreal, but great.

I too though Betty was going to Ms. Robinson young shirt off.

Harry Hamlin - Bravo!!

Harry Crane - LOL!

I do not think the writers did a good job with Joan this season at all. Her anger with Don seemed hollow, and never played true to character. Now that she stands to make more $$ will all be forgiven. What happens if the deal does not go through?

Peggy crushed that pitch. Don at his peak could not have done better, I liked the looks between the two of them before/during the presentation.

One very small detail that bothered me. Where was Roger watching the moon landing? Was he at his apartment or has he moved back in with Mona to help raise the grandson? I know we did not see many shots of his residence outside of the bedroom, but he answerd the phone but the wide shot looked more like a home than an apartment.

>One very small detail that bothered me. Where was Roger
>watching the moon landing? Was he at his apartment or has he
>moved back in with Mona to help raise the grandson? I know we
>did not see many shots of his residence outside of the
>bedroom, but he answerd the phone but the wide shot looked
>more like a home than an apartment.

>I do not think the writers did a good job with Joan this
>season at all. Her anger with Don seemed hollow, and never
>played true to character. Now that she stands to make more $$
>will all be forgiven. What happens if the deal does not go
>through?

Weiner explained it was about the cash, but it doesn't seem true to the character at all. As bad as it would have been if they explained it away as a 'Fuck you, pay me' shift in her attitude after that they peer pressured her to sleep to get Jaguar.

She treated Don like he fucked her wife..hopefully they will have it out next year.

It was out of character and should have been resolved in this half of the season, IMO, considering how unreasonable and out of character she was acting.

she's barely a step above Lou and Cutler for me.

.

for one thing, they needed one of the SC people to turn on don in order to make it close in the partners vote. roger would never, pete wouldn't right now, and bert was an unlikely candidate. out of all the partners she's in the most precarious position. she has 5%, had to do awful things to get just that so she REALLY values it, and has probably never had a big salary (compared to the rest of them). her company stake is basically her entire net worth, and she doesn't have the connections to get another high-paying job like the guys do. the company is doing well now, but she knows things can go south quick. she'd have nothing while the others already have nice little nest eggs. her wanting to sell to mccann comes from the same place as her wanting don out. and remember how mad she was when don wanted to throw jaguar out? same thing. she knows don is talented, but he doesn't think about others when he makes decisions. she's been wary of him for a little while.

I laughed loudly.

he was a smug prick, with no spine. i wish they would've bought him out for the deal. Would've made Rodger's G move all the more sweet.

>he was a smug prick, with no spine.

Correct. And Hamlin played him perfectly. That's why he's liked.

I'm really not understanding this complaint.

Also, y'all are killing me with this "Joan's hating on Don is completely out of character!" business. He fucked her out of a lot of money. And in doing so, pretty much rendered -- not just the fact that she fucked her way to the top, but also had to endure all of the office shit prior to that -- moot. She did what she did with the mindset that all of the bullshit she had to go through in that office over the years was going to finally pay off. And she'd be able to give her baby a better life as well. Y'all mean to tell me if you put up with a lot of office bullshit and finally got the chance to come up, only to have it snatched away by someone you thought you were cool with, you wouldn't still be hot about it?

Bull and Shit.

Also, did we forget that the only time elapsed between the end of season 6 and the start of season 7 was two months? Y'all really arguing that you would just be like, ah, fuck it, I know he fucked up my situation two months ago but he's gone now so fuck it?

Okay.

___________________________________________________________________________________________
Marriage is a racket!

>>he was a smug prick, with no spine.
>
>Correct. And Hamlin played him perfectly. That's why he's
>liked.

Hamlin played him very well. He's not a likable character IMO. is that easy for you to understand?

>I'm really not understanding this complaint.
>
>Also, y'all are killing me with this "Joan's hating on Don is
>completely out of character!" business.

Are we killing you with our difference of opinion. Poor baby

He fucked her out of
>a lot of money.

And just made her a shit load off his name and Rogers decision making

And in doing so, pretty much rendered -- not
>just the fact that she fucked her way to the top, but also had
>to endure all of the office shit prior to that -- moot.

You mean the many times Don was the only one not to partake when it came to Joan and that he was the one who was against the decision to have her fuck pig man?

She
>did what she did with the mindset that all of the bullshit she
>had to go through in that office over the years was going to
>finally pay off. And she'd be able to give her baby a better
>life as well. Y'all mean to tell me if you put up with a lot
>of office bullshit and finally got the chance to come up,

She already has came up, smart guy. She's a partner

only
>to have it snatched away by someone you thought you were cool
>with, you wouldn't still be hot about it?
>
>Bull and Shit.
>
>Also, did we forget that the only time elapsed between the end
>of season 6 and the start of season 7 was two months?

False. End of season 6 was Nov. 68. Moon landing july 21 1969. Don didnt return to the office two months later. She's irrationally salty, especially in relation to Pete who Don handed hella Ls. Pete knows and respect Don regardless

Y'all
>really arguing that you would just be like, ah, fuck it, I
>know he fucked up my situation two months ago but he's gone
>now so fuck it?
>
>Okay

Stay upset tho.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________________________
>Marriage is a racket!

No one's "upset" here, bro. Cmon.


>>>he was a smug prick, with no spine.
>>
>>Correct. And Hamlin played him perfectly. That's why he's
>>liked.
>
>Hamlin played him very well. He's not a likable character IMO.
>is that easy for you to understand?

"Likable" isn't what was meant by "that's why he's liked." What is meant by that is, the actor Harry Hamlin's PERFORMANCE is liked. WE KNOW that he's, in your words, "a smug prick." The role doesn't work if Hamlin's performance isn't convincing. Which is why I typed "And Hamlin played him perfectly."

Cmon.


>>I'm really not understanding this complaint.
>>
>>Also, y'all are killing me with this "Joan's hating on Don
>is
>>completely out of character!" business.
>
>Are we killing you with our difference of opinion. Poor baby

Really, dog? Resorting to making it about me, already?

Cmon.


> He fucked her out of
>>a lot of money.
>
>And just made her a shit load off his name and Rogers decision
>making

Right. That plot point happened some 6 episodes after what I described.

Cmon.


> And in doing so, pretty much rendered -- not
>>just the fact that she fucked her way to the top, but also
>had
>>to endure all of the office shit prior to that -- moot.
>
>You mean the many times Don was the only one not to partake
>when it came to Joan and that he was the one who was against
>the decision to have her fuck pig man?

I'ma ignore where you tried to strongly imply that Joan is/was nothing more than the office whore, and note that my point still stands: regardless of Don's Drake-esque behavior when it came to "pig man," the fact of the matter is, long after that, Don fucked Joan over when he fucked up the Jaguar account just as SCDP was about to go public, which cost all the partners bread. By that point, Joan was, in fact, a partner, if only by name. I already mentioned what that bread would have meant to Joan as far as she and her kid goes. But right or wrong, Joan also thought getting that bread would make her legit to the rest of the partners. Right or wrong, in her eyes, it equaled respect and equal footing to them.

So while Don didn't literally didn't fuck Joan (which actually is irrelevant to the discussion), he ultimately DID fuck her in the end. Which is why she's mad at him.

Does that make sense, or are you now going to bring up that one time when they sat at the bar and drank together and stuff as more (shitty) evidence that Joan being hot at Don was "completely out of character!"?

Or, are you going to fall back on the Make-This-About-ZooTown crutch?

Cmon.


> She
>>did what she did with the mindset that all of the bullshit
>she
>>had to go through in that office over the years was going to
>>finally pay off. And she'd be able to give her baby a
>better
>>life as well. Y'all mean to tell me if you put up with a
>lot
>>of office bullshit and finally got the chance to come up,

>She already has came up, smart guy. She's a partner

*glares at camera*

Cm-- you know the rest.


> only
>>to have it snatched away by someone you thought you were
>cool
>>with, you wouldn't still be hot about it?
>>
>>Bull and Shit.
>>
>>Also, did we forget that the only time elapsed between the
>end
>>of season 6 and the start of season 7 was two months?

>False. End of season 6 was Nov. 68. Moon landing july 21 1969.

(emphasis mine)

"Also, did we forget that the only time elapsed between the end of season 6 ****AND THE START OF SEASON 7**** was two months?"

Start of Season 7 = January 1969

And if you really believe I'm "upset" about this...

C.M.O.N.


>Don didnt return to the office two months later. She's
>irrationally salty, especially in relation to Pete who Don
>handed hella Ls. Pete knows and respect Don regardless

Yes, because Pete and Joan had the same equal and exact life stakes in getting that money had SCDP gone public.

I mean, do I even have to type it at this point?


> Y'all
>>really arguing that you would just be like, ah, fuck it, I
>>know he fucked up my situation two months ago but he's gone
>>now so fuck it?
>>
>>Okay
>
>Stay upset tho.

Oh, okay.

But, I mean, when all else fails -- and when you can't even get the most basic details and thoughts right -- you can always resort to making this about me, right?

___________________________________________________________________________________________
Marriage is a racket!

>
>Also, y'all are killing me with this "Joan's hating on Don is
>completely out of character!" business. He fucked her out of
>a lot of money. And in doing so, pretty much rendered -- not
>just the fact that she fucked her way to the top, but also had
>to endure all of the office shit prior to that -- moot. She
>did what she did with the mindset that all of the bullshit she
>had to go through in that office over the years was going to
>finally pay off. And she'd be able to give her baby a better
>life as well. Y'all mean to tell me if you put up with a lot
>of office bullshit and finally got the chance to come up, only
>to have it snatched away by someone you thought you were cool
>with, you wouldn't still be hot about it?
>
>Bull and Shit.
>
>Also, did we forget that the only time elapsed between the end
>of season 6 and the start of season 7 was two months? Y'all
>really arguing that you would just be like, ah, fuck it, I
>know he fucked up my situation two months ago but he's gone
>now so fuck it?
>
>Okay.
>

She has a right to be mad no doubt, but I think the writing or the way they played it was a bit jarring (to me). She potentially lost a good bit of money, but she was still a partner and much further along than she would have ever been as the office manager, or even the wife of a Dr. I know the writing does not need to be "on the nose" but one scene with Joan talking to a realator about a home in Westchester county that she couldn't buy, or a with Bob, Roger, her mother anyone to give the pure hate some more depth.
I am sure her son is fine, (although at times I barely remember she has a son.) She could absolutely afford to move out of her apartment she has been in for a decade, and she was rocking tons of jewelry and stays in the expensive clothes.
My question is that now since Don was a major part of this new proposed deal, where she stands to make more money, does she automatically warm back up to him or will some other reason be given for her anger towards him?

And again, Joan thought that extra windfall would have solidified her as a legit partner

She was a partner MOSTLY IN NAME up to that point, and still being regarded as a whore by others in the office

This whole idea that she had no real right to still be mad at the person who fucked up what she thought was her best shot at legitimacy (up to that point) is absurd on its face

Saying that it was jarring is something I can at least see, even though they hadn't really interacted after Don pissed on the Jaguar deal

___________________________________________________________________________________________
Marriage is a racket!

...we said it was "out of character" which is kind of was. You're right that most people would have a right to remain mad at him at that level, but Joan is more level headed than most which is why her lengthy (and still ongoing) vitriol, without even an attempt to talk to him about it, seemed so .... well, out of character for someone like her. She's strong and opinionated but also level headed and reasonable.

Seeing as she's so savvy, did we also think that maybe she's doing shit like vehemently agreeing with Cutler when he goes against Don so as to preserve her own situation when Don and eventually Roger are let go?

___________________________________________________________________________________________
Marriage is a racket!

but I'm only commenting on what I see on the surface; I'm not predicting the future. Once it's fleshed out maybe we'll see her uncharacteristic vitriol as more reasonable, and maybe you'll end up being right. But as it stands now, with what we have in front of us, I don't think I or anyone else is being unfair in saying that what we saw from Joan towards Don this season wasn't consistent with the character we've watched for 7 years now. Just as Peggy's explosions at her secretary were out of character for her.

There's a reason several people here are saying that it was out of character for her, as well as several respected critics. Again, maybe after the final 7 you'll end up being right that she was just trying to save her ass by aligning with Cutler. Her last comment to Cutler may foreshadow that. But as it stands now, I think the argument is valid.

and that too is out of character, more so actually. Even the current Pete incarnation I feel wouldnt' do this (or at least he would think about it for half a milisecond)

>Seeing as she's so savvy, did we also think that maybe she's
>doing shit like vehemently agreeing with Cutler when he goes
>against Don so as to preserve her own situation when Don and
>eventually Roger are let go?
>
>___________________________________________________________________________________________
>Marriage is a racket!

She was always the pragmatic one, and suddenly she's like "CASH CASH CASH" and V-I-N-D-I-C-T-I-V-E towards Don. Every season or two it Don and Joan shared scenes where they would bond..they even hinted at slight sexual tension which neither would act on; they had a unique friendship with her as the maternal figure and him as the paternal figure in the office.

And lets keep in mind (if I remember right) one of the reason's Don was like, 'Fuck it' towards Jaguar was because of the situation.

I can buy it, but as a viewer it seemed out of nowhere. They did a better job of selling Peggy's issues with Don.

Joan came out and said he had fucked up her money, and I believe her.

And if that's all there is to it, then so be it. It's enough. Though I am keeping in mind that the show ain't over yet, and maybe there's a reason they let Joan's story play out the way it has thus far. Maybe there's more going on.

Because, considering that a lot of these characters stay paid *and* miserable, it kinda puts me in a mindset where I expect motivations to be based on more than just money. (With the exception of Cutler maybe)

Plus - We've been SO stuck on Don's POV, this season especially, that we don't always see the true extent of the damage he does. Or conversely, the healing that takes place when he isn't around.

It's not lost on me that the firm seemed to be doing fine in his absence.

And for Joan to be a *partner* and still have to entertain a faux-marriage proposal from a colleague looking for some double-life arrangement is definitely significant. I get that she's not where she should be.

But how Don has directly affected her situation to the point where she's throwing this degree of shade at him, yeah I'd say "jarring" is fair.

Dude turned off his plane.

In the air.

Because he is bored with advertising.
(Which, even that has barely been established)




I would rate that as being more "left field" than Peggy yelling at a secretary, Crazy guy's DIY nipple-ectomy, and Joan being a meanie.

i mean he was def bored and somewhat out of it all season but cutting off the engines? that's some other shit. wish they would have delved into that a little deeper than "i'm bored with advertising".

There's no barometer for how jarring his behavior was.

Might make for an interesting spec

___________________________________________________________________________________________
Marriage is a racket!

when she wore a too-grown outfit Don objected to then later walked in on Roger & Megan's mom?

The one Peggy was at had the MLK assassination mid-way thru so I'm not sure if I"m conflating two different awards dinners.

That's the only instance I can think of as a possible meet off the top of my head but maybe an office visit once upon a time.

I'm almost positive we've never seen a legit full-fledged Sally/Peggy 'scene' because I have a feeling if we did it'd be powerfully memorable.

Now that you mention it, that's on my short list of wishes for the final stretch of episodes.

>I'm almost positive we've never seen a legit full-fledged
>Sally/Peggy 'scene' because I have a feeling if we did it'd be
>powerfully memorable.

but nothing like that.

so close yet so far. Too damn funny.

>so close yet so far. Too damn funny.

A lot of fun stuff happened in the episode but it was way too busy and too much occurred in 60 minutes. This is the problem when you are required to split seasons. In comparison to The Strategy this episode didn't hit the same heights. This is always likely to occur when you have so much exposition and trying to fit it into a restricted duration.

Megan's departure from the show was rather lack lustre, a morose phone call? The writers could have handled this better even though we all knew this was coming. It didn't need to be a blazing row or fireworks but there should have been something better than what happened.

Ted's near suicide attempt because he is getting bored with advertising. - Where is the slow burn approach? This comes out of near nowhere Ted was a crucial character and this season has been given nothing to work with.

While Peggys pitch was good it wasn't among the very best deliveries there has been on the show and if they wanted to sell Peggy as absolutely nailing it then this needed better writing. The Carousel this was not.

The machinations of the merger were necessary but too quick to happen in my opinion. Also Ted is a problem here, why would he agree to something with only a tiny bit of support from Don when not only does he want out of advertising but he wanted out of live too. Only for money? Ted is probably rich enough as it is.

Sally and the kiss should have been done over two or three episodes, where they built it up to actually mean something. The young actress has been excellent the past couple of seasons especially in sassing Betty.

The moon landing was excellent, not just for Bert's last moments on earth "Bravo" but the sense of history for which the series is set.

The Best Things in Live Are Free - a great way to end the first part of the series.

Pete's Marriage is a racket. and Harry being too late to become a partner were both strong comedic moments.

The first part of season seven has been very good and really got me back into Mad Men. I might go and re=watch every episode in time for the concluding part of the series.