Finally the trailer leaked. I've been looking forward to this thing since the show was announced.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8i5CR4kDjM

This looks legit

http://youtu.be/roiKrE5KLbk

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Different storylines each year.

*skatin' the rings of saturn*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B7E8dge7H8Y


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I also suggest paying attention to the item about the show's format, so we don't have to read any bitching about it when the season's over

hollywoodreporter.com:

>True Detective: TV Review
7:19 AM PST 1/2/2014 by Tim Goodman

The Bottom Line
Two wildly disparate detectives work a homicide case in Louisiana that has occult overtones -- and the ensuing investigation envelops both their professional and private worlds.

Premieres
Sunday, Jan. 12 at 9 p.m., on HBO

Cast
Matthew McConaughey, Woody Harrelson, Michelle Monaghan, Kevin Dunn, Michael Potts, Tory Kittles

Writer-creator
Nic Pizzolatto

Director
Cary Joji Fukunaga

One of the benefits viewers (and critics) reap from continued and sustained excellence in the drama field is that writers and directors, perhaps feeling pushed to stand out even among the best, are experimenting more noticeably with tone, pace, structure and visual impact.

This was clear among some of 2013's best dramas -- like The Returned, Rectify, Broadchurch and others. There was something (sometimes a few things) distinct about them that made astute viewers keenly aware that originality was kicking at the corners of their television sets. And as 2014 kicks off, we can add HBO's magnificent and magnetic anthology series True Detective, which premieres Sunday, Jan. 12 at 9 p.m., to the list.

In fact, even though the new year is just beginning, there's a real certainty that True Detective will be filling up the best-of lists we've all just set aside from the past year. Who will forget this out-of-the-box knockout in 11 months? Nobody paying attention, that's for sure.

True Detective has three immediately impressive attributes. The acting -- by Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson -- is off the charts. The writing and the concept, by series creator and novelist Nic Pizzolatto, undulates from effectively brash soliloquies to penetratingly nuanced moments carried by sparse prose. Lastly, director Cary Joji Fukunaga has created a beautiful, sprawling sense of place (the series is shot and set in Louisiana). With Pizzolatto writing all eight episodes and Fukunaga directing all eight, there's an overt sense of shared vision going on (at least in the four episodes sent by HBO). Perhaps that's why this series seems so immediately self-assured, as if it was already in its third season. No doubt the chemistry between McConaughey and Harrelson is the driving force behind that.

True Detective is about two disparate detectives brought together on a murder investigation with occult overtones and a strong whiff of serial killer sophistication. It's the kind of case that Louisiana's Criminal Investigation Division hasn't seen before.

Credit Pizzolatto with both an assured sense of craftsmanship in the structure and a novelist's flourish in the telling of the story. The series moves deftly between 1995 when detectives Martin Hart (Harrelson) and Rust Cohle (McConaughey) start working the case and 2012, when both men are being interviewed -- separately -- by two detectives working a new case that has strong similarities (elements unknown to the public, which would seem to rule out a copycat).

Flashing back and forth and revealing bits of the case and personal bits of both Hart and Cohle keeps viewers hooked on each track, while the technique also provides a glimpse at how their relationship changed all the people around them over time.

Is an occult/serial killer premise new? Is the concept of disparate partners chaffing against each other a fresh one? Of course not. And that's why True Detective earns its praise -- familiar storytelling conceits are enlivened by the stellar, riveting performances of McConaughey and Harrelson, the tone-shifting writing devices of Pizzolatto and Fukunaga's ability to nail an establishing shot of Louisiana's vast, contrasting features while also experimenting with fugue states and off-kilter framing.

Put them together and you've got a series that sneaks up on you because it seems both familiar and unfamiliar simultaneously. Just when you think Hart and Cohle are clashingly disparate -- Hart the older school detective and Cohle the book-smart profiler -- Pizzolatto mashes up their backstories to cast doubt on any assumptions.

More impressively, McConaughey and Harrelson look astonishingly different from 1995 to 2002 and in 2012. The physical transformations are incredible.

There's a lot of other fine work being done beyond those actors -- including Michelle Monaghan as Maggie Hart and Kevin Dunn as Hart and Cohle's boss. And the present day interviews conducted by the new detectives -- played Michael Potts and Tory Kittles, also hint at where True Detective might go in its next incarnation.

The plan is for these eight episodes to be contained, with a new story and new actors kicking in each season, though the storytelling structure will remain the same.

Would it be something truly special to see McConaughey and Harrelson keep at it for another eight -- or 16 episodes? Hell yes. It's a tour-de-force by the duo. But there's nothing wrong with keeping things fresh either -- especially if Pizzolatto stays involved.

On top of all of this, by the way, T Bone Burnett supervises the music for True Detective and the impact is visceral -- moody when needed, full-blown songs mimicking the moods on screen and everything evocative and a contributing factor to the excellence.

True Detective, coming as it does after what was arguably the best year for dramas in at least five years (really saying something in our continued Renaissance period), just puts an exclamation point on the topic of excessive quality. Who knew the bar would be set so high so early?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Everyone knows the best way to question one's blackness is to go on the Internet and insinuate about it

Im so gald Woody H. is getting great roles again.

Both Harrelson, and McConaughey have been killin it lately.

but this might be like The Butler was for me where I'm just laughing inside the whole time at the Madea type costumes these people have on. Woody has had better hair in other movies they probably should've just let him be bald. They look like they are in a SNL skit

Cary Fukunaga is one of my favorite working directors right now.

I'm definitely in. Woody was great, Matty Mc was strong as ever. Love all of the little hints they dropped. Can't wait for the next ep.

amazing characterization straight from jump, very intelligent pacing in the storytelling and reveals, great performances, great setting. everything about that was great. I'm hooked already.

who would have thought that woody and wooderson would become such great actors?

***************************************
rosemary's babydaddy
***************************************

this show is so insanely serious so that line caught me off guard and had me crying tears of laughter... woody's face when he delivered that was hilarious...

this show is fucking awesome... mm and woody both KILLED it, storyline has me hooked, so does the acting... great start

>this show is so insanely serious so that line caught me off
>guard and had me crying tears of laughter... woody's face when
>he delivered that was hilarious...
>
>this show is fucking awesome... mm and woody both KILLED it,
>storyline has me hooked, so does the acting... great start

show was dope, when replayed last night couldnt bring myself to change channel

Noir is back!!!

he asks for the photos, so they shut the blinds, slip off, and bring him back the case file because they need to know what he thinks. even though Cole is nuts, the detectives are in awe of him. and the smoothness that Cole drops the last line, suddenly opening up both timelines as open-ended mysteries ... yeah, that was some amazing pulp storytelling.

I love they show subtly show you glimpses into the lives of the detectives while they leave just enough mystery about them so that you can't pinpoint why they are the way they are. Nice clues to their character though, Woody cheating on his wife. Matt being a drunk who isn't over his wife leaving and his daughter's death. Is he seeing his dead daughter? or is kind of a ghosts of the past thing where he sees his daughter in all children? W

I also love the young and old looks of Matthew and Woody. to be able to pull off looking both ways without it looking like make up is amazing to me. (random)

anyway...my mind was racing after the first show. What happened to the girl who wondered off with her dad? Did they really catch the murderer or did they kill the wrong person (I'm on the mindset that murderer was killed...not that he's just in jail).

This is in Louisiana. I won't be surprised to see a cult somehow come into play.

I was sooo hype to see Woody and McConaughey working together and damn did they deliver with material that lived up to their talents.

loved loved loved it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Okayplayer's 13 Best Songs of 2013
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1oqjQg5iG0kixstemTCUgT0b8cSMNfN-

..from directing, to the cast, to the script




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I really hope these guys don't pull a 'The Killing' on us. That show started out great too then tapered off FAST.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Okayplayer's 13 Best Songs of 2013
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1oqjQg5iG0kixstemTCUgT0b8cSMNfN-

And I swear that they introduced 20 episodes of material in that pilot. I can't imagine it tapering off with such a short season.

That's a LOT of story to tell in 8 hours.

But a strong first episode. Very interesting characters, and pretty well developed for a pilot, too. I'll be watching.

It's great!

detective woody's hitting that

***************************************
rosemary's babydaddy
***************************************

I look forward to the "IN YO FACE, THE KILLING!"s that we're already being subjected to

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm lofty. Feel free to stay lost in your feelings.

as well as a couple people I've spoken with in the past couple days saying it started a bit slow or they weren't completely sold.

To me I haven't watched a first hour of a series that gripped me like that in ages.

The last eight eps of Breaking Bad were so good it almost put me off of hour-long episodic dramas altogether since.

I couldn't finish watching the meandering in Boardwalk, the ridiculous new season of Homeland or that drearily shitty Ray Donovan after Breaking Bad's finale.

Those episodes piled up on my DVR until I finally just decided to delete them all.

This show in one premiere has brought me back in.

Can't think of a stronger pilot between those two...flashbacks & all

I LOVE it. Have no idea how they're gonna tie all this together in 8 hrs, but I'm on board.

Most uncorny writting in a TV show in a while. Matthew Mcconaughey is becoming my favorite actor slowly but surely. Dude's acting is top notch in pretty much everything I've seen him in, in the last coupla years. The only side eye was Woody's wife. Is it polite to ask so many question to a dinner guest you meet for the first time? It was almost like a police interrogation.
The slap made me howl so hard. I expected a head butt or a judo chop, dude slapped him like he was a side chick.
I'm in for the whole ride.Great television.

>>The slap made me howl so hard. I expected a head butt or a
>judo chop, dude slapped him like he was a side chick.


lol..didnt it though?..."Say it again"

Dude been in a zone the past few years.

Also, shout-out to Brother Mouzone and Lester Freamon.

names off hand.

great start to the series.

Dude from the 9ers plays one of the investigators/interrogators..

but, from some of the reviews, i guess i was expecting it to be more original. some reviews were really selling "it sound familiar but you've never seen it approached/done like THIS"

the way it was shot, a serial killer leaving a naked girl with antlers on her head in the middle of nowhere by a tree, one of the lead investigators being brilliant but kinda crazy/antisocial? felt a lot like Hannibal

a killing happens that exactly resembles a specific serial killer from over a decade ago? Definitely have seen that done in Criminal Minds, maybe another crime drama as well. The killings "taking a toll" on those who investigate them has also definitely been explored in Law & Order and its spinoffs, and Criminal Minds.

there wasn't really anything "refreshing" or "new" to the investigating-a-serial-killer genre to me. It felt like The Killing, Hannibal, and Criminal Minds in a blender...with the potential to possibly better than all three.

>but, from some of the reviews, i guess i was expecting it to
>be more original. some reviews were really selling "it sound
>familiar but you've never seen it approached/done like THIS"

Either way it feels pretty new to me so far & I still have no clue if the subsequent eps will be similar or stand apart on thier own as well

>there wasn't really anything "refreshing" or "new" to the
>investigating-a-serial-killer genre to me. It felt like The
>Killing, Hannibal, and Criminal Minds in a blender...with the
>potential to possibly better than all three.

yeah, we've seen detectives fall apart in an investigation before, but I get the feeling that Rust Cole was falling apart, but the complexity of this investigation gives him purpose he didn't have. it's inverted in that respect. he's only invigorated by the study, it's saving him from himself in a twisted way.

there's also the "good guy" Detective Hart (Woody) who really seems like he might just be a charming, nice guy, as opposed to a really moral or ethical guy. and while he remains suspicious and negative towards Cole, he can't deny his talent. it creates an adversarial relationship, tied together by a tenuous work bond, that really makes for an interesting partnership.

add on the multiple timelines, macabre killing with religious / cult themes, strong stylization, and very sophisticated plotting, and it definitely feels like "new" pulp to me.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

Them jams were fucking next level.

lol

Man, I will never look at those "Percy Jackson" movie the same way.

in all seriousness tho where she been hiding those things

a little slower than the first; understandably so because they have to start building character more. I wasn't mad at it.

Also, those were the most remarkable breasts I've seen in recent memory.

What's funny is plot wise it's moving pretty slow...I SHOULD be frustrated as a viewer.
But the world and character building they are doing is so great I don't care about the serial killer.

It's pretty much all about Rust and Marty who are just putting on a powerhouse case of acting.

-That confrontation about Marty's cheating and that "You know that I know" moment.
-Marty with that sly smile when the Chief told Rust to Shut the Fuck Up.
-Rust telling the investigators what lead him to the psych ward
-When Marty used his mother in-law's critique to hurt his wife during that argument: that look of "I fucked up" but being too prideful to do anything about it.
-Marty confronting his side piece...well wasn't too much acting in that scene but WOAH at those things. Who wouldda thought.

>-Marty confronting his side piece...well wasn't too much
>acting in that scene but WOAH at those things. Who wouldda
>thought.

I was like "Man, I would love to see those." Then when they came out... and stayed out.... with no blocking... I was like "Yo. I seent some titties before but I feel like I'm seeing em for the first time in my life!" That's how shook I was. lol

They looked luciously delicious!
_____________________________________________________
"You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". "Musashi Miyamoto

the actual case about the serial killer is unimportant to me...there's no action there and I pretty much think I figured out that scenario...(i could be wrong) but of course, I could be wrong. the more important thing, to me, is the dynamics between these two detectives. What the hell happened to make them fall apart?

granted, i do want to know who the killer is (although i'm sure this might lead to some sacrifice because they are in a cult type thing and it's not one killer but many). but shit...why did they fall apart and why aren't they talking anymore. And how did his wife introduce Rusty to a girl that he almost married?

. but
>shit...why did they fall apart and why aren't they talking
>anymore. And how did his wife introduce Rusty to a girl that
>he almost married?

>the actual case about the serial killer is unimportant to
>me

I think this is mainly because it's revealed in the end of the first episode that the killer in the first case was eventually caught. There's a whole lot of suspense lost when you know the outcome of the case.

more like a character studie(s) rather than a detective story imo

And in this case, that's very much okay.

>-Marty confronting his side piece...well wasn't too much
>acting in that scene but WOAH at those things. Who wouldda
>thought.


Him trying to cuff the side piece behind the case was bad enough, but I thought it was wild how cavalier he was in telling the detectives interviewing him how he slept around. Is it known that he divorced the wife from the past already? I don't remember him saying so, but I guess it makes sense given how splintered the relationship is and the fact the wife seems to know something is up.

Very good catch. I just saw him not wearing his wedding ring on the third episode. In fact, I think the show highlighted it a bit when Woody's character kind of flexed his ring hand and looked down at his ring-less finger.

...or I should say, "them."

http://tell-me-another-horror-story.tumblr.com/post/73920047862/sorry-not-sorry

http://film-book.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/alexandra-daddario-tits-true-detective-seeing-things-01-1280x720.png

http://film-book.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/alexandra-daddario-topless-true-detective-seeing-things-01-1280x720.png

And the dismount, lightened....

https://31.media.tumblr.com/7fa3452c4c8895d3adf089fc95f14679/tumblr_mzp3geDdR21rlb6iho1_400.gif

_____________________________________________________
"You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". "Musashi Miyamoto

Pretty wild she was actually naked on the bottom there. I wonder how hard it was for Woody Harrelson to 'contain' himself while filming that scene.

Also, this....

>how hard it was for Woody

@rob_starrk

What the blood claaat???

>...or I should say, "them."
>
>http://tell-me-another-horror-story.tumblr.com/post/73920047862/sorry-not-sorry
>
>http://film-book.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/alexandra-daddario-tits-true-detective-seeing-things-01-1280x720.png
>
>http://film-book.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/alexandra-daddario-topless-true-detective-seeing-things-01-1280x720.png
>
>And the dismount, lightened....
>
>https://31.media.tumblr.com/7fa3452c4c8895d3adf089fc95f14679/tumblr_mzp3geDdR21rlb6iho1_400.gif

BRA THE FUCK VO


does it even matter?

I've seen in a REALLY long time. or maybe its just those yams, but young that's heat holding at a real level.

you all appreciated those ta tas as much as me

1. I believe the first shot of the series is a building on fire. Am I correct? In fact, I'm pretty sure it's a shot of the church at the end on fire.

2. Chronologically, the interview with Rust takes places **before** the interview with Martin, right?

1. yes. i just looked back at it, it looked like a field area tho...but i feel like it was probably the church

2. again, we gotta assume. it seems to me that Rust was being interviewed first since he started speaking first. but its hard to tell that time line. but it seems to me they know a fair amount about Rust when they get to Martin.

>1. I believe the first shot of the series is a building on
>fire. Am I correct? In fact, I'm pretty sure it's a shot of
>the church at the end on fire.

I remember fields being on fire and don't remember the church being shown separately, but your memory/vision might be better than mine. I do remember seeing the odd tree sculpture figure being lit on fire in that first scene you're referring to though.


>2. Chronologically, the interview with Rust takes places
>**before** the interview with Martin, right?

That's a good question, but it would make sense that Martin would be easier to interview since it seemed to me at least that Rust was much more in the wind and harder to find that Martin.

>1. I believe the first shot of the series is a building on
>fire. Am I correct? In fact, I'm pretty sure it's a shot of
>the church at the end on fire.

I wondered about this, but I really couldn't place what the fire was. being the church burning would make a lot of sense.

>2. Chronologically, the interview with Rust takes places
>**before** the interview with Martin, right?

I wanna say it was April 26, 2012 for Cole and then May 1, 2012 for Hart. they give you the time stamp once in the first shot of the first episode, and exact date aside it's definitely Cole's interview that was earlier.

Hart is May 1

Cohle (not "Cole") is April 26

But the story started with Hart's interview

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm lofty. Feel free to stay lost in your feelings.

Rebecca from Banshee ? Lili Simmons

(FWIW, i think she's more attractive in Banshee than Alexandra Daddario is in True Detective)

>Rebecca from Banshee ? Lili Simmons
>
>(FWIW, i think she's more attractive in Banshee than Alexandra
>Daddario is in True Detective)

Yes.

And now, Ginger the Biker from TD has appeared in Banshee as Matt Sharpe, the racist ecstasy truck driver.

I thought it was great how the ominous mood was continued in this episode when Cohle and Hart wen--

Hold up, y'all, I'm sorry

*returns to post 58*

Good googly-moogly, those are amazing

*continues staring*

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I'm lofty. Feel free to stay lost in your feelings.

He won't be able to take y'all seriously
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

The slower pace, all the nuanced reactions, the cinematography, the script is so sharp, the make-up, them titties, and of course all anchored by the performances of MM and Woody.

My highlight in episode 2 was Woody's talk with the bunny ranch lady in the trailer...brilliant writing.

My favorite segment of the episode is at the bunny ranch.From the time Cohle whoops those redneck mechanics to when they get there and Hart act all Captain-save-a-hoe-ish about the underage chick, while Cohle is all business, digging and observing. I also enjoyed the "Wash up, you got some pu$$y on ya" scene. I love how Hart loses his shit and how he later explains that he cheats on his wife to "decompress". He does it for the family lol I don't think this show can disappoint me. They're doing everything right. Top notch premise, top notch cast, top notch writing, the mood and pace is perfect for me. It reminds em of Twin Peaks. TV for grown ups with brains.

I felt the conversation in which the Madam argues that the girl is better off at the bunny ranch and it's an issue of female liberation was a bit too, here comes OKPs least favorite expression, on the nose.
Took me out of the moment for half a second and made me think about the show's writers.

Other than that, perfect hour of TV.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Okayplayer's 13 Best Songs of 2013
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1oqjQg5iG0kixstemTCUgT0b8cSMNfN-

That line and delivery killed me

..plenty of action, just beneath the surface.

its there. you just have to know where to look (and what to look for).


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

they show us mouzone with the camera interviewing mcconoughey but have we seen them filming woody?

..and alternate btwn Hart & Cohle throughout each ep


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

He's got a point, the way Rust is being filmed makes him look like a suspect/interrogation, while Woody's scenes make him look like he's telling a story to a bunch of fellas in the office.

the very first shot of the first episode is of a camera lens recording hart.

If you werent' paying attention, it def looks like one is getting interrogated and the other is just shooting the shit (which is probably intentional)

the point is how starkly different the conversations/interactions seem with the two characters. one is acting like he's been arrested/detained and is being interrogated (sends them for beer. requests/demands to smoke like in an interrogation).

despite the physical presence of the camera, the whole colouring of the two interactions is so bizarrely different. Marty's is blue and bright and kinda "shoot-the-shit" in nature, and Russ's is beige and orange and grimy and very...tense.

so much so that it actually crossed my mind this morning "are they even filming marty?" now obviously i was corrected here and they are indeed filming both, but the nature of the question remains the same.

i get that there's a stark, obviously intentional contrast in tone btwn the two interviews. i was just answering your specific question ("have we seen them filming woody?")

i was just now expanding on what even got that thought to pop into my head...which again, was wrong.

..has them setting up the camera (complete with date & time) to start Hart's deposition

Cohle's deposition was actually recorded a few days earlier, but isn't shown until after Hart's.

its obvious that they're in separate locations, most likely used as misdirection.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

i didnt rewatch episode 1. im taking about the physical recording of Russ and Marty.

one seems more like an interrogation (russ) and one seems like a conversation.

i couldnt remember if we'd actually seen them filming marty like they do russ.


did not intend to start a shitstorm of "SMH's"...smh.

they've been letting Cohle interject at all the worst moments with existential obsession, but that totally unexplained tin man (at one point during the tin man construction I thought maybe he was making little models to help explain a crime scene, but no...) with the Lone Star right in the middle of its chest.

and the detectives just standing up and leaving after Cohle's long, unsettling monologue -- did they want to stop the questioning? did they just need a break because they were getting upset? did they need to re-convene to determine how to steer the conversation so they didn't get so sidetracked?

but his final bit about about the release he sees in the dead bodies' eyes ... christ ... talk about bringing the anti-religious diatribe to its ultimate, grisly conclusion.

(and then still the tiny moment where Hart is annoyed when Cohle takes the incessant, slow stroll back to the car after their LaDeux (sp?) call comes in. just great TV.)

Really digging this so far. Great script and the acting is right in step. What's got me reeling though is the show's atmosphere. It's all so damn bleak ... Loving it. The cinematography is particularly engrossing and transports you to this fading memory of a place, as Rusty called it.

Looks like shit is about to pop off next week, too.

..kudos to fukunaga. this deliberate pace is the greatest slow burn i've seen in quite some time.

i chuckle heartily each time i hear someone complain that the show is too slow or lacks action.

what you see & what you hear are two different stories. only a true detective will be able to put this together.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

of divine reward, then brotha, that person is a piece of shit"

"at least i'm not racing to a red light"

everything about this show is ridiculously good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i3B2IqrFWU#t=54m12s

@rob_starrk

.

http://www.mountrantmore.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/True-Detective-Gif-SLap.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuRhwlbavPk

Both characters named Steve. Coincidence? Unlucky actor? Or major plot twist? *Law & Order DUNH DUNH*

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
(everybody) Who gets mad at knowledge? OK NIGGAS DO!

The pace, the atmosphere, the writing, the performances, the cinematography....can't get enough.

when you start pondering the meaning of life at like 2 am, but he just does it in a 10000x more intelligent and poignant way... this show definitely sticks with you for many reasons, but that is the main one so far...

Love this show, don't mind the "slow-burn" one bit, but damn it seems like they really ratchet it up at the end of each episode to add that much more annoyance that I gotta wait another long week to see the next episode!


@rob_starrk

Yo, I wanna record that shit and just play to ppl when they ask me why I'm agnostic.

SMH

wow. He's KILLING it. I just don't know why ANYONE would wanna work next to him at this point. He's FUCKING DANGEROUS.

As executive producer

And as actor as been setting this up for Matthew hitting it out of the park

Dudes steadily feeding him like

So...whatcha gonna do with that bit I info...


We'll got damn


Has me looking at woody again
:)
Quite respectfully


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and the fact that he's producer makes me REALLY respect him. Matt obviously has the meatier part, he really subjugated his ego on this one.

>and the fact that he's producer makes me REALLY respect him.
>Matt obviously has the meatier part, he really subjugated his
>ego on this one.

He's pumping the bellows on this fire
And I'm like
Got damn it's HOT in here!
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

..everything, and i DO mean EVERYTHING he does, he does it to the fullest

RAMPART

out of the furnace

what makes it even better is that he's havin' fun.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

>..everything, and i DO mean EVERYTHING he does, it does it to
>the fullest
>
>RAMPART
>
>out of the furnace
>
>what makes it even better is that he's havin' fun.
>


YUP. Folk *STAY* sleeping on Woody's talent. Dude has been putting it in CONSISTENTLY FOR YEARS.

YEARS.

Rampart, Out of the Furnace, etc. he's fantastic.

they're both killing it

http://truedetectiveconversations.tumblr.com/


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I started to wander a bit at the 2/3's mark but the ending brought me back. Just a great show and I love how they just drop huge pieces of the puzzle without making a big deal about it. Like when he said, "That's how we got our guy." and it just moves on while the audience is sitting up saying, "Wait, they got him!"

Shea Wigham was great as the preacher. And I think he is uncredited in this.

what's amazing is that Hart is still struggling to amend his perception of Cohle as anything besides a crazy, lonely, sad figure, when the truth is that Cohle is more powerful, willful, talented and at peace with himself than Hart realizes. the way Cohle was daring Hart to say what the problem was during the driveway confrontation, so good.

>what's amazing is that Hart is still struggling to amend his
>perception of Cohle as anything besides a crazy, lonely, sad
>figure, when the truth is that Cohle is more powerful,
>willful, talented and at peace with himself than Hart
>realizes. the way Cohle was daring Hart to say what the
>problem was during the driveway confrontation, so good.

I KNEW that was finna be some shit.

smh - man listen.......

I'm like aw shit

Double dog dare
Triple dog...
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

..that good ol' fashioned home brewed sweet iced tea


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

Although there may be some truth to the fact that Cohle isn't as cock-sure or stoic as he seems, Hart is certainly trying to rationalize/attribute Cohle's behavior by labeling it under a schema that fits within Hart's cognitive paradigm...shit is cognitive dissonance through and through.

talking about it looks like it need mowing. I mean is there any other way to talk about fcuking a dudes wife without talking about fcuking a dudes wife.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Okayplayer's 13 Best Songs of 2013
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1oqjQg5iG0kixstemTCUgT0b8cSMNfN-

I woulnd't have been mad if Woody had decked him.

100% violation

Woody was showing some serious restraint.

I complete relate to what Woody was feeling there. My
ex-girlfriend used to tell me that she didn't think I
would be of much use as a "handy-man" around the house,
even though I would tell her that I've dry-walled holes
in my walls plenty of times, opened up my lcd tv and fixed
the capacitors on my own, changed light fixtures in the
apartment, etc. She still insisted that, in her own words,
"you seem more into fashion and music than handy things, el
oh el". It got to the point where she'd ask her good guy friend
to help her move and tell me, "it's no big deal. I'm saving
your help for the big stuff. I just want you to relax and
do your thing." This dude was no threat, whatsoever, and
she even tried to be sweet about it, but nothing makes a guy
feel less manly than a woman who looks to another dude as
"more handy and useful". It's up there with being castrated
and forced to join the soprano team of a choir.

Haven't visited this site in a min
But the sequencing on this is so well done



http://www.artofthetitle.com/title/true-detective/


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Showing the guns


Woody was UPset


And I...man he's in good shape
Here's to a hopefully nude mcconaughey
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

Silence of the Lambs-esque.

He should've kept the younger daughter there to grill her about that while they were discussing the drawings w/ the older daughter too

Seems kinda strange how he obviously noticed it but decided to let it slide

the location shots are amazing to me. even these random shots of teenagers walking, or a boat passing. all so good.

beautiful

The start of this episode had me spellbound. The religious music; the pastor overdoing it;the faces in the congregation and the discussion that ensues about the intellect of the followers, all that crowned with Cohle giving one of the best rants I ever heard about the triviality of religion and how fear is the main motivator for worship. That whole sequence is masterfully executed.From the start to the point they leave. The fact that their car has to be pushed outta there brings some edginess to it all too.


Two things that happened in last night episode that got me confused, is when they get a hold of the suspect with the burnt face. It's not clear how they caught him. It went from saying they were gonna call an APB and Boom! They're in the box. Did I miss how they nabbed him?
Also the whole story about the daughter's drawing something offensive at school. They never show or tell us what she actually drew.That scene is fitted pretty abruptly into the episode, like it has some kind of significance but all it amounted to is Hart and wife getting in some argument and getting it on.Maybe that's all it was.

The end is just as epic as the beginning. Matthew McConaughey has a raconteur's eloquence. You can't help to listen to him. Another genius rant about a dream and the monster that shows up at the end, paused, looking like Bigfoot.

2 weeks wait? That's gonna be torture.

>
>
>Two things that happened in last night episode that got me
>confused, is when they get a hold of the suspect with the
>burnt face. It's not clear how they caught him. It went from
>saying they were gonna call an APB and Boom! They're in the
>box. Did I miss how they nabbed him?


the guy in the box was just a perp that was picked up who matched the description they were looking for who also had a mo that had sexual acts...the 2 girls at the church said the dead girl was seen talking to "tall man with shiny skin...like it was burnt." rust does the interview and has dude so shook he is ready to confess to anything, but all he had done was a few b&e's and after each one he had to rub one out before he left the scene. rust shakes his head to hart to let him know this guy is not the one they are looking for.

>Also the whole story about the daughter's drawing something
>offensive at school. They never show or tell us what she
>actually drew.That scene is fitted pretty abruptly into the
>episode, like it has some kind of significance but all it
>amounted to is Hart and wife getting in some argument and
>getting it on.Maybe that's all it was.
>

they show the drawings right before hart and his wife get it on while hart is sitting on the bed. just some crude drawings of dicks and boobs. if you remember from the previous episode where hart gets the girls for dinner he sees the actions figures they were playing with and how they are arranged with 4-5 male figures standing around a naked female figure laying on the ground.

>>
>>
>>Two things that happened in last night episode that got me
>>confused, is when they get a hold of the suspect with the
>>burnt face. It's not clear how they caught him. It went from
>>saying they were gonna call an APB and Boom! They're in the
>>box. Did I miss how they nabbed him?
>
>
>the guy in the box was just a perp that was picked up who
>matched the description they were looking for who also had a
>mo that had sexual acts...the 2 girls at the church said the
>dead girl was seen talking to "tall man with shiny skin...like
>it was burnt." rust does the interview and has dude so shook
>he is ready to confess to anything, but all he had done was a
>few b&e's and after each one he had to rub one out before he
>left the scene. rust shakes his head to hart to let him know
>this guy is not the one they are looking for.
>
>>Also the whole story about the daughter's drawing something
>>offensive at school. They never show or tell us what she
>>actually drew.That scene is fitted pretty abruptly into the
>>episode, like it has some kind of significance but all it
>>amounted to is Hart and wife getting in some argument and
>>getting it on.Maybe that's all it was.
>>
>
>they show the drawings right before hart and his wife get it
>on while hart is sitting on the bed. just some crude drawings
>of dicks and boobs. if you remember from the previous episode
>where hart gets the girls for dinner he sees the actions
>figures they were playing with and how they are arranged with
>4-5 male figures standing around a naked female figure laying
>on the ground.
>


which will end up tying into some of this I bet

>the guy in the box was just a perp that was picked up who matched the >description they were looking for who also had a mo that had sexual >acts...the 2 girls at the church said the dead girl was seen talking >to "tall man with shiny skin...like it was burnt." rust does the >interview and has dude so shook he is ready to confess to anything, >but all he had done was a few b&e's and after each one he had to rub >one out before he left the scene. rust shakes his head to hart to let >him know this guy is not the one they are looking for.

So they nabbed him from APB they sent. I saw the subtle head shake that Cohle did to Hart, realizing he was not the right guy. Rust has a gift of making perp lose their shit " literally lose their shit" in some instance.

>they show the drawings right before hart and his wife get it on while >hart is sitting on the bed. just some crude drawings of dicks and >boobs. if you remember from the previous episode where hart gets the >girls for dinner he sees the actions figures they were playing with >and how they are arranged with 4-5 male figures standing around a >naked female figure laying on the ground.

I really missed that one. I watched it twice back to back too lol. I remember the dolls on ep 2, which raised red flags on what could be happening at Hart's house.

Thank you good looking out.

>they show the drawings right before hart and his wife get it
>on while hart is sitting on the bed. just some crude drawings
>of dicks and boobs. if you remember from the previous episode
>where hart gets the girls for dinner he sees the actions
>figures they were playing with and how they are arranged with
>4-5 male figures standing around a naked female figure laying
>on the ground.


maybe hart's daughter is the copycat? what's the time difference between the old and new murders? 16, 17 years? she's obviously damaged somehow

eh

probably not, but maybe. i'm just spitballing here

***************************************
rosemary's babydaddy
***************************************

That's why choke is there at the house-- trying to get info. That explains why the daughter has seen some of these images. Grandfather/ father in law is a sick dude who started the cycle

Did Cohle know exactly what he was doing when he was fucking Hart's wife? Was he getting some intel from the pussy? Is the video he shows Marty a video of him fuckin her? Did it go down differently than how it was portrayed in Episode 5? Did she seduce him? Drug him? Threaten him? Did he have video all along? Why didnt he show it to Hart?

Or does the video show her involvement. I think its something to do with her rather than the daughter.

Im gonna go back and watch teh scene with the father in law tonight/


Why is their younger daughter seemingly not as affected?

>Two things that happened in last night episode that got me
>confused, is when they get a hold of the suspect with the
>burnt face. It's not clear how they caught him. It went from
>saying they were gonna call an APB and Boom! They're in the
>box. Did I miss how they nabbed him?

nah. hart mentioned the perp in the present day interview that they had found someone who matched the description but didn't turn out to be the guy.

>Also the whole story about the daughter's drawing something
>offensive at school. They never show or tell us what she
>actually drew.That scene is fitted pretty abruptly into the
>episode, like it has some kind of significance but all it
>amounted to is Hart and wife getting in some argument and
>getting it on.Maybe that's all it was.

they did show the pictures. it's more a continuation of hart's facade of being the ultimate family man who, in reality, cares more for the basketball game on tv than his daughter's wellbeing.

>2 weeks wait? That's gonna be torture.

just read that. gonna be a long couple of weeks.

>nah. hart mentioned the perp in the present day interview that they >had found someone who matched the description but didn't turn out to >be the guy.

>just read that. gonna be a long couple of weeks.

Yup! Since we don't get an episode next week I'll do a marathon after the game. Connect he dot before it comes back.
Thanks.

it's more a continuation of hart's
>facade of being the ultimate family man who, in reality, cares
>more for the basketball game on tv than his daughter's
>wellbeing.
>
>>2 weeks wait? That's gonna be torture.
>
>just read that. gonna be a long couple of weeks.

I need all my focus on the Seahawks this Sunday so I'm ok with it

That next ep looks like it'll be well worth the 2 week wait tho

Stupid question I suppose since it appears the two leads are at odds and already caught the killer, but I want this to go on.

same show. different stories

>same show. different stories

So different lead detectives for the next season I'm assuming? Interesting idea; almost seems like a fast food franchise in a sense. As long at the same writer(s) are at the helm, I have faith in the show being top notch. I was afraid this show was going the BBC route in terms of being a one off series.

new everything.

I read up on the series last night and learned the definition of an anthology TV series then. Sounds interesting.

at the end of episode 3, when Martin's giving Rust the scoop on Reginald Ledoux in the car, he asks guess who was his cell mate for the last six months of his bid, and Rust guesses right

who was the cell mate & when did we see him or heard of him before?

cell mate was the dead girls boyfriend who they interviewed in the 1st ep

>cell mate was the dead girls boyfriend who they interviewed
>in the 1st ep

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=656387264403284&set=a.593055280736483.1073741828.540297149345630&type=1&stream_ref=10

From the TRUE DETECTIVE Facebook page....

click on that, and you get the school picture, making me think that is the connection

it's still on the darknessbecomesyou.com website, but they cropped it out...

a lot of people were commenting on FB, including a woman who's son is in the pic and some older guy who was in the last episode, maybe they were afraid of spoilers coming

@rob_starrk

one of the faces is like cropped on... weird shit... something tells me the 1 they put on fb was somebody fucking up

@rob_starrk

make of it what you will:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=veou9z&s=5#.UugFERAo6M8

I have like 40 theories right now of who the killer is lol... becoming an obsession




@rob_starrk

whoever caught that has a good eye

some crazy screenshots and theories

such as this one:
http://imgur.com/Ee1Ea43

and

5 Guys 1 Girl in both of these:
http://i.imgur.com/hYLTTUo.png
http://i.imgur.com/wQTAQoi.png

and

http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueDetective/comments/1wcpo5/connection_between_reverend_tuttle_and_detective/

http://www.reddit.com/r/truedetective

def gonna be important, hadn't noticed the connection with him and the monster drawing yet, but looks like it fits...

People are piecing all kinds of things together

going on. I hope it's something else, but all the signs point that way.

can't wait to see more. that last scene in the 3rd episode
was some donnie darko/sexy beast sh*t.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

lots of little spoilerish details in it....more of rust's new gf....beer belly hart looking as if he and rust are sharing an apartment....new crime scene...etc

and i didnt realize that they are actually dealing with 3 years, not just 1995 and 2012, but 2002 also.


***edit***found a link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJfTPMgPbU

..the best thing about a great mystery is the journey of discovery.

in the 1st ep of this series, we're pretty much given the synopsis of what will eventually become the series conclusion. we know that cohle & hart were involuntarily partners on a serial murder case. we know that the case was presumably solved at some point, but eventually that was proven to be incorrect.

what we don't know are the details that led to cohle & hart's alleged miscalculation and eventual fall out. essentially, we're watching two cases unfold at once.

that being said, its difficult to understand how anyone watching this show can afford to NOT pay attention to every detail. the writing is incredible and the delivery is damn-near poetic.

still, the best action occurs between the lines.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/04/inside-the-obsessive-strange-mind-of-true-detective-s-nic-pizzolatto.html

>Inside the Obsessive, Strange Mind of True Detective�s Nic Pizzolatto by Andrew Romano

Nic Pizzolatto was a college writing professor who�d never penned a TV script. Now, as the creator of HBO�s revolutionary True Detective, he�s the hottest showrunner in Hollywood.
Four years ago, Nic Pizzolatto was a college writing professor with one little-known collection of short stories to his name. He�d never written a single TV script. Now, as the creator of HBO�s True Detective, he�s the hottest new showrunner in Hollywood.

How did he do it?

When I meet Pizzolatto one recent Wednesday afternoon at a quiet Italian restaurant in Malibu, that�s the mystery I�m hoping to solve.

In my opinion, True Detective�the story of a pair of retired Louisiana cops and the sinister murder investigation that forever changed their lives�is not only one of the most riveting and provocative series I've seen in the last few years. It's one of the most riveting and provocative series I've ever seen. Period. The acting is brilliant. The plot is addictive. The allusions are rich. The philosophy is mind-bending.

And the auteur-anthology format�one writer, one director, two movie stars, and one story per season, with a beginning, middle, and end�could be revolutionary. As I wrote last month, �not every narrative is best created by committee or best told as an open-ended epic. � For a certain kind of plot-centric series, the True Detective model could alleviate some of television's muddling structural issues and liberate showrunners to take full advantage of the medium's greatest asset: time. Some characters deserve eight hours on screen. In a theater, you can't do that. On TV, you can.�

Despite being a relatively recent California transplant�he moved west in 2010�Pizzolatto, 38, looks more camera-ready than most TV writers. Grey leather jacket. Black unbuttoned henley. White undershirt. Aviators. Careful stubble. He resembles celebrity chef Rocco Di Spirito, or perhaps Tom Ford in landscape mode.

He orders the whole branzino. I get the linguine vongole con bottarga. After exchanging a few pleasantries about the weather and our respective journeys to Malibu, we finally get down to business. For the next two hours, Pizzolatto reveals the secrets of his creative process�and tells me what to expect from future episodes (and seasons) of True Detective.

AR: Let�s start with Matthew McConaughey. As Rust Cohle, McConaughey gives what I consider the best performance of his career.

NP: Matthew just got it�the dialogue especially, as baroque as it is. He was like, �No, no, this is the way this man talks.� And the 2012 Cohle talks differently than the 1995 Cohle. Matthew has this incredibly complicated chart of where Rust Cohle is emotionally and physically at every beat of those 17 years.


AR: A written chart?

NP: A map of his mental and emotional state. That�s why you notice that Cohle�s delivery in 2012 and 1995 is different. And that�s significant. If we�d had a lesser actor than Matthew playing Cohle, I would have had to rewrite the role. Not every actor can handle dialogue of this verbal complexity, and even fewer actors can understand the ideas and intentions hiding behind those verbal complexities.

But if you have thoroughbreds, let �em run. You don�t try to make your dialogue more common. You gauge exactly how great their skill is and you try to use that skill. To me, it would have been misuse of actors like Matthew and Woody to do something safer�to not give these guys steak to chew all the time.


AR: Part of what I think is so interesting about True Detective is that it�s an even purer form of auteur TV than, say, Deadwood�a show that was scripted in a writer�s room and realized by multiple directors. True Detective is one writer, one director, one story per season. You control the story and tell it from beginning to end.

NP: I was on set the entire time. I worked closely with the actors. And what�s airing are the cuts I�m very happy with. I think you can have the writer�s room and still have the auteur experience, and you can still have that auteur experience with multiple directors. But for me it was just more of a question of, do I want to spend my days in my place of interiority actually creating, or do I want to be sitting at a table talking about creating? And for the first season I was already too far ahead to bring anyone else in, and I couldn�t see a way it would help me.

I don�t know that I�ll write every episode in the future. But then again, I might. Even with what I�m writing now, I�m already at the point where a) how do I explain this to anybody else? and b) do I really want anybody else to touch this?


AR: I take it that you�ve started to write the second season.

NP: That�s what I�m writing now. But we don�t know if we�re going to go ahead and do it.


AR: I thought HBO was onboard.

NP: I have a deal with them, and that doesn�t change. And I think everybody�s hope is the next thing I do with them is True Detective. But if I write scripts that nobody likes, I don�t think we�ll be doing True Detective.

I just don�t take anything for granted. I made True Detective like it was going to be the only thing I ever made for television. So put in everything and the kitchen sink. Everything. You have to be able to enjoy it as a rollicking story with compelling, authentic characters, but if you can enjoy it on that level, it can just keep going. There are multiple associations, multiple layers. It was madness. It was just crazy. I�d work for 48 hours at time and then I�d sleep for 20 hours.


AR: Why were you so possessed?

NP: It�s like, you got one shot, man. Don�t you want to swing for the fences? And in an industry like this, it�s one kind of heartbreaking if something is exactly what you wanted and people don�t connect to it. But it�s a much greater heartbreak if something doesn�t end up how you wanted it to be and then people don�t connect to it. Because then you�re like, �What am I even doing?�


AR: You were really haunted by that idea.

NP: I�ve talked to other showrunners. If there�s one who�s more involved, I haven�t heard of it. For my sanity�s sake I�m going to have to think of a way to pull back. I was having conversations in my head 24 hours a day. I had Maggie and Marty and Rust in my head 24 hours a day.

***

AR: You came into television as a novelist. Was writing something you always wanted to do?

NP: Sort of. I was raised by television. It was my first cultural window. It was a constant companion.


AR: What shows did you watch?

NP: When I was a very little kid, we didn�t have cable. So we had three channels. I remember the stuff that was most inspiring to me as a kid, that I would actually sit down and watch, was a lot of the stuff from the Golden Age. They would rerun it at night. It might be on PBS. I�m not quite sure where, but I remember seeing a couple of Playhouse 90s. And the Twilight Zone and The Untouchables would get rerun. But I was a visual artist for a long time before I even took up writing. That�s how I got to go to college.


AR: Painting?

NP: Painting and drawing. A lot of it was narrative-based, sequential art. But I�m an autodidact film buff. I always had the rhythms and the language in my head.

What I could never stand, though, was the idea of putting your heart and soul into something, then having somebody else screw it up. Handing it over. It sounds like a nice way to make money, but I wouldn�t do it with anything I genuinely cared about as an artist.


AR: Why didn�t you go straight into television?

NP: The idea of doing something like that for a guy with my class background? It�s ludicrous. You might as well say you want to be a movie star.


AR: Tell me about your class background.

NP: Just growing up in south Louisiana, going to state school for college, and working two jobs. I spent four years bartending in Austin. I never had any money or any window into the world of TV.


AR: So how did you break in?

NP: One of the things with writing is that you don�t need money to do it, and you don�t need other people to do it. You just need paper and a pen. And if you can learn how to do it well enough�


AR: How did you learn?

NP: In 2004, I was in grad school, and Deadwood, The Wire, and The Sopranos were all on HBO. Those shows were actually filling my hunger for fiction as an audience more than the contemporary fiction that I was reading. They seemed very much like auteur works�but the auteur works of a writer, not the auteur works of a director. Then I learned what a showrunner was and I was like, �Wow, that actually sounds like the perfect job for me.� But the idea of getting to do it was just silly, so I stuck with what I knew and just kept going with that.


AR: You mean writing fiction.

NP: I was working on the stories that would become my collection. When that got no attention, it was like starting back at square one. I had a novel that I had written for the same publisher that I pulled from publication. Then I wrote my novel Galveston in about three months, when my wife was in the last trimester of pregnancy. That was a breakthrough for me.


AR: It must have been tough to give up on the other book, though.

NP: Yeah, but spending two years on the bad one taught me how to write Galveston. With Galveston, I wanted to write a book that I wanted to read. And the lesson there was that it came much easier. It felt truer and more real, and the response was much more immediate.


AR: How did TV enter the picture?

NP: At a conference in Aspen I ran into some people in the TV business. I�d never met anyone who did TV professionally at that point. So I was like, �How do you break into TV?� And they said, �If you write a really good spec script and a really good pilot script for a show, then you can start to get work in this business.� After the conference, I told my wife that the first chance I got to speak to somebody from Los Angeles, I was going to move us out there and we were going to be in the film and TV business and I was not going to be a professor anymore. I knew I could do it.


AR: So you had this idea in your heard from earlier, from watching Deadwood�

NP: That I should be doing this. I could not only make the scripts, I could manage the show and make sure that we ended up with what the scripts were. That�s where a lot of stuff goes off the rails: you start out with something and what you get on the screen is not at all what you started with.

A year later Galveston got published, and it was optioned for very little money. But I got to talk to two agents finally�the agents who had done the option. And they were like, �Do you have any ideas for shows?� And I was like, �Yeah, I�ve got 30 ideas for shows.� And they were like, �Well, you should write some screenplays�have you ever written a screenplay?� And I was like, �No.� And I could tell that they maybe weren�t taking me very seriously. Every novelist they option a novel from, the novelist then asks how he gets to write the script. And they say, �Well, write us some scripts.� And then maybe months go by and they never hear anything.

But before a week was out I�d already sent them two scripts�a spec script and a pilot. I wrote one in two days and one in three days.


AR: This was in the summer of 2010. You ended up writing six scripts that summer.

NP: Six TV scripts. Three pilots for original shows, one of which was True Detective.


AR: Where did True Detective start for you? What was the first germ of the idea?

NP: Probably May or June of 2010, when I was working on what I wanted my next novel to be. I wanted it to be really big. I was going to use certain conventions of the procedural crime novel�and I don�t say those things with any kind of haughtiness. I love these conventions. I love them. I love a good plot. But I wanted to use them to try to write a literary police novel that also kind of encapsulated 17 years in the life of South Louisiana.


AR: You were doing a lot of writing.

NP: I guess. But a lot of it was desperate. I really wanted to change my life. Having a kid made me serious about my life in a way that I hadn�t been before.


AR: You felt like you were complacent before?

NP: Yeah. I wasn�t serious. I had no stake in the world, so my ambitions tended to be tamped down because at the end of the day I didn�t give a shit.


AR: Teaching wasn�t your great ambition.

NP: No. That�s just one of those things that you fall into, really, because it�s the only thing you�re trained for.


AR: So you�re accustomed to disappointment.

NP: Oh yeah. Thirty years worth, baby.


AR: Is it frustrating when people assume that your success is a sudden thing?

NP: I just feel I need to put an asterisk there. There were 30 years of Chef Boyardee and no money that none of you are hearing about. And then years of being a published writer who just goes unnoticed. There were those years, too.


AR: Was that hard? The idea that you put so much time and energy into something that not many people even read?

NP: Yeah. I don�t think art is about expression. I don�t think that�s its primary motive. The primary motivation is communion with your fellow human beings. So it�s very frustrating to make something and nobody notices it. If you put on a play and nobody comes to it, did you really put on a play? But you just keep going. You remind yourself that people have been doing this as long as there have been people. And your frustrations and disappointments are nothing new. And you go back to the wheel.


AR: Do you think part of the reason why television had so much appeal for you was that you knew you�d be able to reach an audience? Everyone has a TV in the living room. Not everyone reads literary novels.

NP: That�s a great point. I think, with myself, growing up in rural Louisiana but having TV�TV jumps all these class boundaries. For a kid to even have a disposition to be willing to sit down and read literary fiction and not regard it as a waste of time�that requires a certain amount of cultural influence and education. But TV sneaks in, no matter what. I really like that. And the idea that you could put your heart and soul and every bit of yourself into it, the same way you could a novel, and stay there and make sure it was done right? That was all appealing.


AR: When you wrote the True Detective pilot, did you know it was the one?

NP: Yeah. I just held onto it until I knew enough and could make it the way I wanted to. I had producers who wanted to buy the format. There is a way you could franchise it. You really could. You could have True FBI, True DA. Like Law & Order, just using the dual interrogation format to tell a story. But I wouldn�t sell it.

The jackpot hit when Matthew McConaughey read the script and said, �I want to do this.� Then we were all off to the races.

***

AR: What can you reveal about episode four, which is airing on Sunday?

NP: Episode four is the beginning of Act Two. Suddenly, the rhythm of the entire show changes. The slow part is over now. The first three episodes move at a very deliberate, almost funereal cadence, like you�re marching toward something. And what you�re marching toward is that final image in episode three.


AR: Of Reggie Ledoux in his underwear.

NP: Right. Then in episodes four, five, and six, the rhythm is much more varied. They�re like children. I love them all for different reasons. But five for me is like the most special of the children. Then seven and eight are the third act�and the less said about that, the better.

I will say this: if someone likes True Detective after three episodes, I can guarantee we didn�t drop the ball. And if you don�t like it based on the first three episodes, you should stop now. Plenty of other stuff on TV.


AR: I�m sure that�s what HBO wants you to say.

NP: (Laughs.)


AR: Did you know from the beginning how Season One would end?

NP: I knew what the last scene was. I wasn�t entirely sure how we were going to get ourselves there, but I knew what it was. And if the last scene had to change because the characters revealed something to me, then it would change. But actually the last scene is the last scene that was always intended to be.

I�ve enjoyed reading people theorize about what�s going to happen because it�s a sign that you�re connecting. But I�m also sort of surprised by how far afield they�re getting. Like, why do you think we�re tricking you? It�s because you�ve been abused as an audience for more than 20 years. The show�s not trying to outsmart you. And really if you pay attention� if someone watches the first episode and really listens, it tells you 85 percent of the story of the first six episodes.

If someone likes True Detective after three episodes, I can guarantee we didn�t drop the ball. And if you don�t like it based on the first three episodes, you should stop now. Plenty of other stuff on TV.


AR: I imagine the Hart and Cohle story is over at the end of Act Three, though.

NP: Yeah. But I retain the literary rights to them. I could always go and write some Cohle and Hart novels. (Laughs)


AR: You�ve said before that you don�t care about serial killers, and yet you�ve created a very compelling narrative around one.

NP: I think my serial killer�s personal pathology is wrapped in very culturally relevant symbols that may not be immediately apparent. Not just hunting, but the idea of woman as trophy to be stuffed and displayed. The idea of prayer, and one of the necessities of the prayer pose being the blindfold: in order to effectively pray you�re going to have to ignore some very basic facts about the world.

So to me it�s not just that Cohle and Hart are hunting for their savage id or their most destructive portion. It�s that the killer has some resonance in the kinds of shows we�re talking about. We only have the one murdered woman at the crime scene in the entire series. It�s not an unrelenting horror show. It�s meant to stand in for the universal victim in this type of drama. Because while I think we�re doing a good job of telling the story that this genre demands, I think we�re also poking certain holes in it and looking at where these instincts begin, both in the type of men that Hart and Cohle represent�and in ourselves as an audience.


AR: What�s an example of that?

NP: Episode Five. I�ve just read a couple pieces where the critic tries to dismiss Cohle�s monologues as �the sort of half-baked loopiness you�d get in freshman year philosophy,� and that�s not true at all. If you pay attention to Cohle�s philosophies they�re actually much deeper and more nuanced and grounded in legitimate scientific and philosophical thought than some asshole getting stoned and talking about the meaning of life.

So in episode five�not to spoil anything�Cohle gives one of his metaphysical addresses. And you can see it as Job crying out to an uncaring God�or you could see it as a character trapped in a TV show yelling at the audience. I think that much, at least, is safe to print.


AR: Did you ever get any pressure to cut McConaughey�s monologues? Some critics have complained about them.

NP: Yeah. I was told that we needed to get rid of the monologues and make True Detective more like one of the shows that everyone was saying we were like before we premiered. And I just said no: that�s not the show we set out to make. This isn�t CSI: Louisiana. This isn�t Law & Order: McConaughey and Harrelson. What you�re describing is not something I will allow my name to be on. And I think you have to be willing to do that. I have a choice between seeing something done wrong or making an enemy, introduce me to my new enemy. You have to be diplomat and fighter.


AR: Is it hard writing the second season after putting everything and the kitchen sink into the first?

NP: Now I feel like I�m in a really sweet spot where I can really go nuts. Like, I bought myself some credibility. One of my goals for Season Two is more authentic, faster�and stranger. It�s going to get stranger.

I�ll be honest, though: if I get to do this two more times, I could see calling it a day. Because I basically have to reinvent the wheel every new season. Every first episode is a pilot. I�ve got to win people over again.


AR: Has it been challenging to create a new character who can stand toe to toe with Cohle?

NP: I got him.


AR: You do?

NP: That�s when I start to know when I�m off to the races�when I�m in love again. And it�s not in love with an idea. I�m in love with a character. A character just did something on a page that made me sit up and go, �Now you�re becoming a dimensional human being to me, and I�m interested.�


AR: When did that happen with Cohle?

NP: With Cohle it happened almost instantly, when I was writing his voice. He was describing that crime scene and what they found, and I�m going along with him. And then his partner decides, for whatever reason, that this is a good time to invite him to dinner. And then the voice tells me that he says �OK.� But he�s thinking about his own daughter, and Hart�s wife and kids, and he knows maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but there�s nothing he can do: �I�m gonna have a drink.� And I remember writing that freehand and going, �OK. Interested in YOU.� I�ll let this guy keep talking and see what else he tells me.


AR: Tell me about the character you�re excited about for Season Two.

NP: I�ve got three characters I like, actually.


AR: And they�re nothing like Rust Cohle?

NP: Nothing. I�ve been told not to reveal anything else about Season Two because none of this is approved. I might hand it in to my paymasters and they�ll be like, �What the hell is this?�

I have lived for two years with this show. Now that it�s out, I�m able to look back on and think, �God that was crazy. What was I thinking?� If I had know the sheer amount of work that would have been entailed, I would have been like, �Fuck yeah, I need a couple of other writers, a good supervising producer, I need this, I need that��


AR: And yet you�re doing it the same way again.

NP: Yeah, because I have to live up to Season One. Because people liked it. It would be a different story if nobody had noticed True Detective, or if it just had a small cult following. But in order to make the second season as full and dense and rich as the first � I don�t know any other way to do it. So I think I�m going to have to do it again.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
2-28? SLAVERY.

The part towards the end where he was speaking about really creating a good character and how the character essentially begins to write himself...great stuff.

"Then in episodes four, five, and six, the rhythm is much more varied. They�re like children. I love them all for different reasons. But five for me is like the most special of the children. Then seven and eight are the third act�and the less said about that, the better.

I will say this: if someone likes True Detective after three episodes, I can guarantee we didn�t drop the ball. And if you don�t like it based on the first three episodes, you should stop now. Plenty of other stuff on TV."

The camerawork once the shit pops off

The Wu Tang selection

Matt & Woody on their A+ games

Wow man...wow

Next weeks ep looks legit again too

cant wait (c)bart scott

I'm gonna have to spend the next 7 days mentally prepping for anything more intense than that final scene.

a beast as a director.

He and the show creator are a PERFECT match...

like, I know Fukunaga isn't coming back for season 2 because of his own commitments (homie, if you're lurking, folk need more details of this Stephen King IT movie adaptation you're doing that's going to be TWO MOVIES. What's them deets, son? What's them deets? :)) but wow I hope he comes back for a future season because those two as a team do AMAZING things...

And Nic Pizzolatto: I'd HIGHLY RECOMMEND you get his books, GALVESTON (which is being made into a movie that he wrote the screenplay for staring the dude from foreign movie BULLHEAD, another amazing film) and his short story collection. Fantastic work there.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1722001/true-detective-long-take.jhtml

great read once you've watched episode 4

I don't understand how that isn't nominated for Best Picture, that was amazing.

I'm having problems processing thoughts right now.

Even before the last 15 minutes or so, that was a great episode. But after that final sequence... just.. just.. Just.. I can barely communicate now. Still buzzing.

Holy Hell.

http://fat.gfycat.com/VillainousEvergreenEarwig.gif

thats how the fuck i feel after that.

..turn my headphones up! � chappelle

everything about this ep screams, "hold on to your seats!"

the audience has been anxiously waiting for things to heat up, and the series delivers.

cohle & hart have solid leads and locations on suspects, and just when they're set to pounce:

all hell breaks loose in the hart household.

martin's extra marital jig is up, and his wife is BEYOND upset. left with nothing more than a note and 2 bags waiting for him at the front door, he's resigned to staying with cohle until he can sort things out.

*1st note: hart's convos with lisa (before AND after the shit hits the fan) were TOUGH. martin did everything he could to retain his cool demeanor, in the wake of his reckless/jealous actions. he tried to play that shit like a G:

"..what EXACTLY did you say to my wife?.."

you get the feeling hart never truly believes he's out of control (or options).

on the flipside, cohle switched gears like a madman. we finally get to see a small taste of his life as a UC. his methodology, approach, and precision is razor sharp. his mind never stops working all the angles. but his ability to adjust and react on the fly is what puts it over the top.

*2nd note: a HUGE shout out to fukunaga & pizzolatto for showing the prep work of cohle's transformation as a UC. its rarely ever shown, but crucial when trying to infiltrate the ranks of notorious criminals who are constantly on alert for anything that doesn't ride. that cayenne & ink move is REAL.

the convo between hart & cohle (after the hospital) was damn-near hilarious, but very poignant. at the same time, cohle's demeanor with both martin AND maggie reveal a bit more of his intense focus.

*3rd note: while most people will rave about the final scene (well-deserved), i'd like to point out the shot of cohle leaving the diner (after maggie takes a cheap shot @ his marital issues). that shot of her staring out the diner window, while the reflection reveals cohle getting into his truck & leaving: GREAT WORK.

and NOW, the moment everyone will be talking about until the ep5 airs:

*SIX MINUTES IN HELL*

we follow cohle as he joins ginger & his crew through a maze of an incredibly brazen heist that goes horribly awry. rust continues managing the situation in high gear, switching lanes in traffic, detours, and narrowly avoiding catastrophe. by the time he reconnects with hart, you're left in utter disbelief. at the same time, the sobering fact is that this kind of shit happens everyday in neighborhoods all over the world.

*4th note: kudos to the music supervisor:

bring it to jerome � bo didley
illegal business � boogie down productions
american life � primus
clan in da front � wu tang clan

all stellar choices for this ep.



*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

i'd like to point out the shot of cohle
>leaving the diner (after maggie takes a cheap shot @ his
>marital issues). that shot of her staring out the diner
>window, while the reflection reveals cohle getting into his
>truck & leaving: GREAT WORK.

I liked the quick focus back & forth between the two investigators when Woody asked them how many exes they had too

>*2nd note: a HUGE shout out to fukunaga & pizzolatto for
>showing the prep work of cohle's transformation as a UC. its
>rarely ever shown, but crucial when trying to infiltrate the
>ranks of notorious criminals who are constantly on alert for
>anything that doesn't ride. that cayenne & ink move is REAL.

that caught me out, too, because in the early episodes Cohle presents himself as having gone sober, and one of the things a recovering drunk really shouldn't do is keep bottles around. but there it is, lying right next to the assault rifle, "break in case of emergency" I suppose.

and then of course the way he flies through those drugs with Ginger, wow ... of course I'm amazed with Cohle's intensity through the undercover scenes, but between the insomnia fueled research sessions, the waking dreams, and now the aggressive drug use, surely there has to be a wall for him to hit at some point, right?

Clearly, he hit a wall somewhere along the line.

This show is KILLING it.

..that's a very important note to remember

he explains it during his apology to hart after showing up to his home drunk for that 1st dinner with the wife & kids.

"..i had a little trouble with alcohol..."

cohle isn't the type to bullshit about much. he makes up his mind and rolls with it. doesn't means he's infallible. simply means he's strong-willed and capable of great discipline under normal circumstances. at the same time, its apart of his overall philosophy. recovery would mean that he would have to subject himself to the laws of religion (regarding AA), and that alone would drive him nuts (lol). the bottom line: he refuses to allow any of his personal vices to interfere with his ultimate goal (whatever that may be at the moment).

mind you: he's still popping quaaludes to settle issues with reoccurring dreams.

he also gave another short speech to det. gilbough & papania during their initial deposition, explaining that on his day off, he starts drinking @ noon.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

We're strip clubs in Backwater Louisiana really playing bdp in 1995? Love the song but it felt a little odd. Of course this is just nitpicking the episode was amazing.

...cracka-ass strip club in Lousiana in 1995. That shit was weirder than hearing a Cage song used for a house party scene in S1 of "The
Wire."

..it fit the theme, more than anything.

the music playing in the club would be more akin to the locale & taste of its patrons. "illegal business" was for us, but a nod to the socio-political climate of that particular time.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

.

>..turn my headphones up! � chappelle

>
>*3rd note: while most people will rave about the final scene
>(well-deserved), i'd like to point out the shot of cohle
>leaving the diner (after maggie takes a cheap shot @ his
>marital issues). that shot of her staring out the diner
>window, while the reflection reveals cohle getting into his
>truck & leaving: GREAT WORK.
>
>and NOW, the moment everyone will be talking about until the
>ep5 airs:
>
>*SIX MINUTES IN HELL*
>
>we follow cohle as he joins ginger & his crew through a maze
>of an incredibly brazen heist that goes horribly awry. rust
>continues managing the situation in high gear, switching lanes
>in traffic, detours, and narrowly avoiding catastrophe. by the
>time he reconnects with hart, you're left in utter disbelief.
>at the same time, the sobering fact is that this kind of shit
>happens everyday in neighborhoods all over the world.
>

Brought home when he lied to Martin about what went down.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

Cohle's "sick father" story. I loved how the detectives question him on some "so y'all had a suspect and you go on leave?"

"Yeah."

This episode was really good...things escalated quickly and no matter what went down between Cohle and Hart, they still held on to that story.

She sho nuff pulled his ho card tho.

DAYUM

when he first walked in, the appropriately named: "History of Bad Men"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JGErNeBc5c

Couldn't help but think how I would like to see what Nic Cage &/or Ray Liotta would do w/ this material

Maybe not both of them together but a combo of them w/ someone else peaks my interest. Nic because he beasted in that Bad Lt remake, & Ray just seems ripe for this sorta stuff

in that final scene

�Gotta be tough, living with somebody spoutin� insane shit in your ear all day long,�


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

....dude says everytime he thinks Cohle has reached a ceiling..he breaks through and gets to a higher level of shit..

That bar scene made me laugh so hard.Dude keeps telling him that it's none of my business until Hart blames Cohle on putting strain to his relationship with his wife and he answers something like. "What? I forced you to go chase strange pussy"? Every episode has a quote and "You are like the Michael Jordan of being a sonnofabitch". is teh one that stuck for me. lol

"Motherfucker do I look dead haaaaaah"

>
>
>�Gotta be tough, living with somebody spoutin� insane shit in
>your ear all day long,�
>
>
>----------------------------
>Same as it ever was!

and you can't spot crazy pussy?

Or something to that effect. That could be the official title for a written manual on side hoes.

Had had negative 50 fucks to give at that moment.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1722001/true-detective-long-take.jhtml?fb_action_ids=10151922804416027&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=fblike_web&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582














'True Detective': How Did They Pull Off That Final Shot?
Director Cary Fukunaga walks us through the epic six-minute take.

Four episodes into its run on HBO, "True Detective" is earning the kind of high praise usually saved for drama series with two or three seasons under their belts, thanks to its stunning visuals, pitch-black worldview and career-best performances from Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey. Cary Fukunaga helmed each installment of the eight-episode run, and his careful direction has been a key factor in "True Detective's" success, even if it's not as apparent as Harrelson's and McConaughey's acting.

But if you watched the fourth episode, "Who Goes There," tonight on HBO, by the end, it's likely you are very aware of just how good Cary Fukunaga is.

MILD SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 4 AHEAD

Before reaching the halfway point of the series, Fukunaga decided to end the episode with a six-minute oner, or long take, that follows Cohle into a heist inside a housing project, through a number of shootouts, outside to escape from swarming police, through another house, over a fence and finally into Hart's car. It's the kind of incredible shot that's worth watching again and again to catch every detail in it and further blurs the line between television and film.

To find out how he pulled off the complex sequence, I reached out to Fukunaga to see if he would walk me through the planning and execution of the best "True Detective" scene yet.

Off the bat, it's important to know that the oner is nothing new to Fukunaga. Having used the technique in both of his feature films, "Sin Nombre" and "Jane Eyre," Fukunaga signed onto "True Detective" knowing that he wanted to include a long take at some point, because he considers it a tenser kind of directing. "The best ones, you don't even realize that they're oners," Fukunaga said. "They're the most first-person experience you can get in a film."

Reading Nic Pizzolatto's script for "Who Goes There," Fukunaga knew almost immediately that the heist was the scene to make his oner. All he had to do was convince the entire crew that it wasn't impossible to pull off.

To cover as much ground as he wanted to in the sequence, Fukunaga needed to shoot in an actual housing project, and that was the first complication in planning the oner. It took weeks to even get permission to film on-location, but once he received it, Fukunaga went straight into mapping the shot and finding "the most interesting path, but also the most logical path" for Cohle to escape with Ginger. That interesting and logical path eventually takes Cohle and Ginger over a chain-link fence, a maneuver that proved to be the most complicated of the intricate sequence.

Watching just the fences portion of the oner back, the camera floats over the high barrier in a movement that almost looks effortless. Getting the shot, however, was anything but. Because the location was an actual housing project, the "True Detective" crew wasn't allowed to take down any portion of the fence, so they had to improvise. "At one point, we were going to build a ramp, and the operator was going to walk up it," Fukunaga said. "But that wasn't very safe." The solution ended up involving placing the Steadicam operator on an elevated jib, or a weighted crane, which carried him over the fence and back down to earth.

Once the camera movements were figured out, the production carefully choreographed everything that had to happen in front of the lens with the help of a stunt team led by Mark Norby, who personally worked with McConaughey to develop a fighting style for Cohle. The crew even built a replica of the stash house for the stunt team to practice in before the big shoot.

"We had ADs all over the neighborhood because we had to release extras, crowd running background, police cars, stunt drivers. There were actual gun shots and stones being thrown through windows. There were a lot of things to put together," Fukunaga said. "Even the action, the stunt sequences were complicated. We're working on a television schedule. It isn't like a film where you can spend a lot of time working the stunts out with the actors. We only had a day and a half to get Matthew and everyone else on the same page."

All told, the sequence clocks in at around six minutes. Fukunaga and the crew ran through the whole thing seven times while the cameras were rolling. The director built in possible edit points if two takes had to be combined to make the perfect version of the shot, but anyone who is wondering should know that the sequence everyone saw in the episode is, in fact, a true single take and one of the great achievements of filmmaking for television.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

Makes me wanna watch it again.

http://twitter.com/collazo

This lie is told so he can go undercover and do all this shit, right? He's not hiding anything from Marty...

and Marty is still covering the story in present day?

Is this right, or is there more to it?


@rob_starrk

>This lie is told so he can go undercover and do all this
>shit, right? He's not hiding anything from Marty...
>
>and Marty is still covering the story in present day?
>
>Is this right, or is there more to it?
>
>
>@rob_starrk

Hart just looked bewildered when mouzone brought up that they knew he lied.



----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

..there's a fine line in law enforcement: what you know and what you can PROVE

if you can't prove it, it might as well be non-existent.

its obvious that they don't believe everything they're hearing (esp about cohle's father), but they can't prove anything and have no other lead regarding why martin & cohle were off the grid for that period of time.

they have a very good idea, but their own professional code of ethics won't allow them to go further without evidence.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

just nothing they can do about it. Same with Cohle stealing the coke out of the evidence room.




----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

..again, they don't know, they suspect (as they should)

the difference: they don't know the details and they have no evidence to support their suspicions.

*this is also why we hear cohle state "..they need a much better system..."


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

nm

n/m

nm

I haven't watch sons of anarchy in a while but i dare say a modern day biker gang has been better portrayed on screen ever

I'm curious about the murder, but I could watch entire eps of them riding around, in bars, etc.

>I'm curious about the murder, but I could watch entire eps of
>them riding around, in bars, etc.

what about it?


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

that something else is going on here. reginald ledeaux
doesn't seem that sophisticated to me. can't wait to
see what unfolds.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

some devil worshippin and people paying to attend was goin on

>that something else is going on here. reginald ledeaux
>doesn't seem that sophisticated to me. can't wait to
>see what unfolds.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open
>your mouth and remove all doubt"

The look on his face and then how he looked away for a second before just lighting another one....I was dying lol. The entire bar scene was great, Cohle just dropped jewel after jewel (esp the one referring to how Marty, for swinging his balls so much, can't even smell crazy pussy).

In addition to the incredible tracking shot, the reflection of Cohle leaving the diner as you also saw Maggy's reaction, so good.

Celery mentioned it above but I felt that Cohle's stash of alcohol, along with the other stuff he had for undercover, was to get him back into the undercover mindset (and it was a full bottle which implies to me he was keeping it for a specific reason). It's like a switch, you have to be this completely different person and that comes with certain cues...clearly for Cohle that involves drugs as he spent 4 years w the DEA (and great writing when Marty mentioned that it's usually 11 months, MAX...just to show how much shit Cohle has gone through/been fucked up by). That switch turned back off when he realized what he had gotten himself into and literally said "fuck this".

Great episode, have to rewatch it. Just one side-note: that's the most realistic portrayal I've seen of an underground deep house 'rave'. Just more proof of how detailed the show is.

>The look on his face and then how he looked away for a second
>before just lighting another one....I was dying lol. The
>entire bar scene was great, Cohle just dropped jewel after
>jewel (esp the one referring to how Marty, for swinging his
>balls so much, can't even smell crazy pussy).
>


He said he always liked "something wild". LOL That she was. Went.to.his.house! SMH


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

shout out to Tarantino

This show is the only show in recent memory that escalates in quality with every new episode. Yeah the Photography and directions are better than half of big budget Hollywood flicks.It makes you feel like you are there with them. Lots of my friends refused to watch Sin Nombre when it came out because of the subtitles and I love that Fukunaga gets some recognition that will make sheeples check his work.

The reason I enjoyed this episode is mostly it is the first time we see Marty and Russ work by themselves. Especially Woody , it was interesting watching him stake out and bust heads to get answers.It showed that despite his drama, he knows how to do his job.The episode also shows us a different version of Rust or at least how he prepares to get to UC Rust.

When Cohle hooks back up with the Iron Crusaders and Rust follows him inside...The tension of that scene already had me at the edge of my couch by the time they roll into the projects, I'm wheezing. The last time I felt like this watching TV was the finale of Breaking Bad. You can cut the tension with a machete. LOL at every time Ginger gets his ass whooped, especially the last time in the car.

I have a feeling that Cohle knew that their ( Iron Crusaders) plan was gonna fail from the get go and just figured that the chaos would help him scoop Ginger up.

I know TWD got more buzz for it's comeback but it's not even close in terms of what show's better.

now i worry about overhyping
and again they downplaying Woody but his support is everything for Matt's character

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/02/-em-true-detective-em-the-best-show-on-tv/283727/


True Detective: The Best Show on TV
Could HBO's latest hit be helping pave the way for a new form of storytelling?


What must David Fincher think when he watches this show?

It�s a thought that first occurred to me in the opening minutes of the series premiere of HBO�s True Detective a month ago, and it has recurred more or less continuously throughout each subsequent episode. The eight-part series, which has just crossed its season midpoint, is Fincherian in the best sense: Zodiac good, Kevin-Spacey-in-the-police-cruiser-in-Se7en good. The resemblance is due in part to the show�s subject matter (the hunt for a serial killer); in part, to its look (crisply cinematic); and, most of all, to its mood: vivid, unsettling, with evil lurking palpably just outside the frame.

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So while I have no real idea what David Fincher thinks when he watches True Detective�or whether he�s even watched it at all�I can�t help but imagine he must think something along the lines of: How can it be that I have nothing to do with this show?

Which is a long way of saying that True Detective is the most compelling series currently on television, one that boasts an almost embarrassing array of riches: a mesmerizing performance by current Hollywood It Man Matthew McConaughey; an only marginally less notable turn by co-star Woody Harrelson; an intricate structure and hyper-literate dialogue by writer/creator Nic Pizzolatto; big-screen-worthy direction by Cary Joji Fukunaga; and an anthology format that has the potential to help change the way high-end television is produced.

The show is presented in alternating narratives set 17 years apart. In 1995, two homicide detectives�Rust Cohle (McConaughey) and Martin Hart (Harrelson) investigate a series of apparent serial killings in southern Louisiana. Flash forward to 2012, where the two former partners, both now retired from the force, are themselves interrogated by another pair of policemen (Michael Potts, Tory Kittles) regarding their conduct in the long-ago case.

The result is a relatively conventional (though masterfully executed) procedural mystery nested within a broader meta-mystery. It is clear from the start that Cohle and Hart successfully closed their original serial-killer case in 1995. But it is equally clear that the present-day investigators are reopening the case, and subjecting the detectives� accounts of its closure to skeptical scrutiny�Cohle�s in particular.

The most intriguing mystery so far is neither the killings nor the re-investigation, but the question of what exactly happened when Hart and Cohle suffered a rupture of their partnership.
And who can blame them? The Cohle of 1995 was an odd enough character, a brilliant misfit prone to rococo outpourings of evangelical nihilism. But the ensuing years have not been kind. Cohle�s ill temper and philosophic inclination are still in evidence, but his purpose has been leeched away. In place of the spare, clean-cut obsessive who would work all night on a case is a grizzled burnout making his way through Lone Star beers with arithmetic efficiency in the interrogation room.

Hart is a more common type: a swinging-dick cop, capable and popular around the station; a family man who�s not quite ready to be just a family man. His metamorphosis from one side to the other of the show�s 17-year chronological canyon may not be as severe�his hairline has receded, and he�s left cop life for a �security firm��but as becomes clear over the first four episodes, he, too, is now a different man.

The pairing of Cohle and Hart, the misanthropic genius and the �ordinary� observer who set his eccentricities in context, is not a novel one, of course. Holmes and Watson are the classic prototypes�unless one tries to reach all the way back to Don Quixote and Sancho Panza�and Patrick O�Brian�s Maturin and Aubrey seem even clearer models for Pizzolatto�s detectives. (I�d be astonished if he did not have them in mind when he created the characters.)

But while the pairing isn�t entirely new, it is nonetheless sublime. In interviews, Pizzolatto has declared that he has no interest in serial killers, that the situation that gives rise to True Detective is just that: a situation, an excuse to bounce his leads off one another�the clear-eyed zealot and the self-deluding everyman�under extreme pressure. (Call it a �sit-dram.�) Yes, there are times, particularly in the first couple episodes, when Pizzolatto lays McConaughey�s dialogue on a little thick, with the �paraphilic love maps� and �smell the psychosphere� and so on. (To whit: this, among many other comparable parodies.) But this is language that takes delight in itself, for itself. If you cannot appreciate Cohle�s describing the illusion of selfhood as �a jury-rig of presumption and dumb will� in episode three, well, this may not be the show for you.

McConaughey continues his run of great recent performances (Mud, Dallas Buyers Club, The Wolf of Wall Street). He has pared himself down physically from his surf-hunky days courting Kate Hudson, but more than that he has pared down his craft, finding virtue in stillness. As he�s thinned out, he�s discovered new depths. Harrelson�s role is in some ways, the more difficult: the straight man, the narrative afterthought. But he, too, underplays neatly, in particular as Hart�s older self. Possibly the show�s most intriguing mystery so far is neither the 1995 killings nor the 2012 re-investigation, but the question of what exactly happened in 2002�an era we have not seen, and one that I do not expect we will�when Hart and Cohle suffered an undisclosed but irreparable rupture of their partnership.

Pizzolatto is cunning in his scattering of such narrative breadcrumbs, his teases of events yet to come. We first heard about �that big throwdown in the woods� in episode two, but have yet to witness it; the stunning final shot of episode three (itself approached, then retreated from, minutes earlier) promised a confrontation that still lies ahead.

'True Detective is the only television show I can recall ever watching and thinking, over and over again, I wish I could see this in the theater.
Yet perhaps the greatest revelation of True Detective lies in its decision to have all eight episodes shot by the same director, Fukunaga (and, to a somewhat lesser degree, the same cinematographer, Adam Arkapaw). Customarily, top-tier shows�The Sopranos, The Wire, what have you�vary directors over the course of a season, and I�d occasionally been surprised at how little difference it seemed to make, episode to episode. What didn�t occur to me (though it should have) is that the multi-director format essentially requires the suppression of directorial style, a deliberate�and necessary�aiming for the lowest common denominator.

The genius of True Detective (again, somewhat obvious in retrospect) is that having a single director entails granting him license to direct. Fukunaga, moreover, is a talent on the rise: I still haven�t seen his 2011 adaptation of Jane Eyre, but his 2009 debut feature, Sin Nombre, was a stunner. It is certainly no coincidence that True Detective is the only television show I can recall ever watching and thinking, over and over again, I wish I could see this in the theater. Fukunaga�s compositions are clean and meticulously balanced; his aerial shots and use of landscape superb (I loved the container ship passing in the background in episode three, with not a sliver of blue water in view); and the pyrotechnical panache of his six-minute, continuous-shot conclusion to episode four�well, the closest comparison that comes to mind is a similar bravura scene engineered by Alfonso Cuaron in Children of Men.

It is True Detective�s limited, eight-episode story arc�if there are future seasons, as seems likely, they will feature different stories and different casts�that enables the signing of talents such as McConaughey, Harrelson, and Fukunaga. (And that benefit is in addition to solving the hanging-around-one-season-too-many malady that has afflicted so many of television�s best shows.) Cinemax is evidently aiming for something similar with the Steven-Soderbergh-directed, Clive-Owen-starring miniseries The Knick later this year. It�s a format that could prove to be the next big step in the ongoing migration of talent from the large screen to the small.

What else can I praise about True Detective? The title sequence�it�s a small thing, but it serves as a tremendous place-setter, moody and evocative. The song, �Far From Any Road� by The Handsome Family, finds a perfect balance midway between honkey tonk and satanic hymn. And the visuals, by Elastic, not only advertise that the Louisiana locale is the show�s third principal character, but also hint at its corrosive effect on the other two.

Could True Detective go astray in its latter half? Of course. That�s always a danger, and in this genre more so than most: a puzzle is, after all, only as good as its solution. But all signs to date seem promising, even the modest correctives that seem already to have taken place. The stately, gothic mood-setting of the first couple of episodes�a kind of dark-magical realism�has accelerated somewhat as the case unfolds, and conventions that might have proven confining have been disrupted. The first three episodes, for instance, all closed by zeroing in on present-day Cohle; the fourth telescoped outward to a (literal) helicopter�s-eye view of chaos unfolding on the ground in 1995. Where will future episodes veer? I don�t know. But I can�t wait to find out.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>and again they downplaying Woody but his support is everything
>for Matt's character

i hope this doesn't become a "rain man" or "philadelphia" situation where the more showy, "actory" performance gets all the accolades, while the subtler yet equally brilliant work of the co-lead is relatively overlooked. woodman is fucking fantastic in this.

Vulture

Seitz: Why True Detective�s 6-Minute Tracking Shot Is More Than Just �Awesome�
By Matt Zoller SeitzYesterday at 3:15 PM

The fourth episode of True Detective will forever be known as "the one with the six-minute tracking shot," and why wouldn't it be? It is logistically impressive: the sort of thing you notice and appreciate even if you're a more casual moviegoer who doesn't normally fixate on composition, shot duration, and other cinematic style choices. It's of a piece with True Detective's fiendishly elaborate construction. The entire show is conceived as one gigantic geographically dispersed, time-shifting puzzle, with shots answering other shots that in turn seem to pose questions to shots that haven't appeared onscreen yet.

The overall effect suggests that the past is continually in conversation with the present � a notion that's made official whenever a past action is commented upon by a present-tense character during those office-bound interview scenes, and we hear the dialogue as voice-over before the show cuts to the speaker's face. And because every episode of True Detective is written by Nic Pizzolatto and directed by Cary Joji Fukunaga (Jane Eyre, Sin Nombre), it has a stylistic cohesiveness that a lot of series, even great ones, lack. That makes you sit up and take notice whenever it departs from whatever norms it has established. That blowout tracking shot at the end of last night�s episode was so striking not just because it was awesome, but because it was the first such shot in the show's run.

But I think it's important to put that tracking shot in a larger context, and talk about what makes it work dramatically, as opposed to what makes it merely "awesome."

It's a mistake to praise the shot simply for existing, for a couple of reasons. TV directors, whose work tends to be devalued generally, stage moments just as complex fairly often and critics don't pat them on the backs for it. In fact, the attention paid to this one instance makes me inclined to devalue the shot just a little bit. It suggests a certain "Look at me, ma!" obviousness deployed in service of getting TV critics who don't normally pay attention to style to notice it here. It's a showstopper in the literal sense. While impressive in every department (camera acrobatics, choreography, lighting), that tense climactic sequence took me out of a drama that had otherwise been totally immersive.

That's not entirely a bad thing � I'll get to why in a moment � but it might prove to be problematic, unless True Detective builds on it in an interesting way in future episodes.

Second, this is far from the first elaborate tracking shot that's been done within the context of a TV drama. In fact, E.R. and other John Wells�produced series used to do ones that were just as long and elaborate in the nineties and early aughts. Some were as long as the justly celebrated "keep it going" shots in films by Martin Scorsese, Brian DePalma, and Alfonso Cuar�n: three minutes, four, five. There have been, and continue to be, other examples of great, long tracking shots. Scandal has done some great ones in the last few years, and Treme used to do them regularly (traveling from character to character for as long as two or three minutes, to visually drive home the idea that ultimately everyone is connected). The best long tracking shots are so elegantly executed that the single-take approach affects you subliminally, so that you come away thinking not, "Wow, that was all done with no cuts," but something more like, "Wow, that was emotionally affecting for some reason," or "How clever of them to save that last big reveal for the very end of the scene," after which you go back and watch the scene again and realize what, exactly, you were looking at.

On the opposite end of the subtlety spectrum, you've got tracking shots like the ones in the X-Files episode "Triangle," one of the most ambitiously directed (by creator Chris Carter) episodes of series TV I've ever watched. The plot unfolded, � la True Detective, in two different time frames: 1939 and 1998. Carter, who also wrote the episode, staged the past- and present-tense versions of his heroes Scully and Mulder so that they seemed to be eerily in sync, at times even passing each other like ghosts in the same haunted house. As I wrote at the time, "The greatest minute of TV this year is the scene where Mulder runs down a hallway of the ocean liner with the 1939 Scully in tow while in 1998, the real Scully walks down the same hallway looking for Mulder. Thanks to the wonders of split-screen � i.e., two square images placed side-by-side � Mulder and the 1939 Scully turn a corner at the same time that our Scully turns it. The two parties seem to pass each other...In a single stunning image, Carter collapses time, space and identity � and makes a funny joke, too. It's the shot of the year."

There's nothing in the True Detective shot that's as conceptually rich as what Carter did in "Triangle," but the showiness of it is very effective in its own right, because it departs from the meticulous puzzle-piece construction of the rest of the initial four episodes. The intensity and controlled wildness of the sequence � which follows Rust Cohle (Matthew McConaughey) and a gang of bigoted white bikers as they try to rob black drug dealers in a housing project, then escape before they all get killed�feels like a long-delayed eruption of deeply buried madness. In the rest of this episode and most of episode three, we've been watching Cohle contrive, very carefully, to "lose it," as if willing himself to re-become the deep-cover agent he'd been several years earlier, at the expense of his family and anything resembling a stable, "normal" life. The filmmakers paved the way for this shot by showing Cohle leaving the biker bar on a boat and disappearing into darkness, as if he were Captain Willard going upriver to find and kill Colonel Kurtz. Will True Detective continue to follow this chain of association? If so, don't be surprised if the series gets crazier and crazier and crazier as it goes along, until it disintegrates.



_____________________________________________________
"You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". "Musashi Miyamoto

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://truedetectiveconversations.tumblr.com/

some of these are hilarious

but in a good way. So far, episode 4 was the only one i could really take seriously.

Single writer.
Single director.
Two fantastic leads.
Four more eps? Bring em on.

Ep 4 gave my nostrils sympathy pains.

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

i look forward to re-watching every episode...this week's was crazy as hell

can't wait.

I feel like I'ma enjoy it MORE the 2nd time around.

i wasn't sure where to put this in the discussion
but i've been re-watching (and re-watching...lol)

in episode 2, right after marty and maggie argue in the kitchen and he goes to get the girls for dinner, you can hear audrey talking through the door to her sister. i have been trying to make out what she says

to me it sounds like (i'm paraphrasing)

audrey: some of them don't have mommys and daddys. the rest of them just died.

lil sis: how?

audrey: they put crowns on their heads... (then they're interrupted by marty)

has anyone else figured out exactly what she said?

i think thats the connection to the drawing of the spiral brand in their house. these kids are in some kinda sunday school gone wrong lol and i bet that Rev Tuttle dude is at the center of it.

>i think thats the connection to the drawing of the spiral
>brand in their house. these kids are in some kinda sunday
>school gone wrong lol and i bet that Rev Tuttle dude is at the
>center of it.

Yes. Wouldn't be surprised if the elder daughter winds up on the next back country milk carton.

>i wasn't sure where to put this in the discussion
>but i've been re-watching (and re-watching...lol)
>
>in episode 2, right after marty and maggie argue in the
>kitchen and he goes to get the girls for dinner, you can hear
>audrey talking through the door to her sister. i have been
>trying to make out what she says
>
>to me it sounds like (i'm paraphrasing)
>
>audrey: some of them don't have mommys and daddys. the rest
>of them just died.
>
>lil sis: how?
>
>audrey: they put crowns on their heads... (then they're
>interrupted by marty)
>
>has anyone else figured out exactly what she said?


shit, what you deciphered they said is enough! lol

Why I love OKP, right here.

First time I've seen the bird formation mentioned...
http://io9.com/the-one-literary-reference-you-must-know-to-appreciate-1523076497

damn i just saw this and posted this link and the text in my post here LOL

its actually horror

i mean this fucking show is creepy as hell

im loving it

And Chambers is *THE* godfather of horror/weird fiction because EVERYONE of note that's a horror writer cribbed/was inspired by/was influenced by/reveres:

http://io9.com/the-one-literary-reference-you-must-know-to-appreciate-1523076497

Two episodes into the series, True Detective dropped a reference to one of the strangest, most compelling tales in the canon of weird fiction: Robert W. Chambers' The King in Yellow, a collection of short stories published in 1895. Knowing this book is key to understanding the dark mystery at the heart of this series.

This collection of stories has influenced writers from H.P. Lovecraft and Raymond Chandler, to Robert Heinlein, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman and George R. R. Martin. The King in Yellow and his legendary city of Carcosa may be the most famous character and setting you've never heard of.

In fact, the more of the show you watch, and the more carefully you pay attention, you'll find a number of Easter eggs aimed squarely at hardcore fans of the weird fiction genre. I'll touch on a few of the more prominent ones, but I have a feeling the rest of the series will be a bonanza for true detectives of strange fiction.

Camilla: You, sir, should unmask.

Stranger: Indeed?

Cassilda: Indeed it's time. We all have laid aside disguise but you.

Stranger: I wear no mask.

Camilla: (Terrified, aside to Cassilda.) No mask? No mask!

�The King in Yellow: Act I, Scene 2
The King in Yellow is a fictional play within a collection of short stories�a metafictional dramatic work that brings despair, depravity, and insanity to anyone who reads it or sees it performed. Chambers inserts only a few selected scenes from the play into his story collection, and all of them are from the first act. This act, we are told, is a bit of a honeypot, luring readers into the cursed text. If they read even the first few words of Act II they are driven insane by the revelation of horrible, decadent, incomprehensible truths about the universe.

The King in Yellow
Amazon.com: $6.29
Buy now

Anyone familiar with Lovecraft's "cosmic horrors" should see the thematic similarity. For his unfortunate protagonists, the ultimate truths of the universe are too much for their overloaded minds to handle. It should not be surprising that Lovecraft incorporated Chambers's The King in Yellow into his overarching Cthulhu mythos, embellishing the elements of the story and adding the fictitious play to his growing bookshelf of equally fictional mythos tomes.

Songs that the Hyades shall sing,

Where flap the tatters of the King,

Must die unheard in

Dim Carcosa.

�Cassilda's Song in The King in Yellow, Act I, Scene II
For many fans of weird fiction, the surprising appearance of this madness-inducing play into what ostensibly appeared to be just another police procedural was a bolt of lighting. Suddenly, the tone of the show changed completely, signaling the descent into a particular brand of horror rarely (if ever) seen on television. The first mention of the play comes in episode two when Rust Cohle, the cynical, nihilistic detective played by Matthew McConaughey, finds the journal of a young former prostitute, Dora Lange, who has been ritualistically murdered.

"I closed my eyes and saw the King in Yellow moving through the forest," Cohle reads aloud from her journal. "The King's children are marked. They became his angels."

The One Literary Reference You Must Know to Appreciate ​True Detective
The journal pages flash briefly on the screen. Lines from Chambers's play have been copied verbatim into the notebook.

The One Literary Reference You Must Know to Appreciate ​True Detective
Along the shore the cloud waves break,

The twin suns sink behind the lake,

The shadows lengthen

In Carcosa

Strange is the night where the black stars rise,

And strange moons circle through the skies,

But stranger still is

Lost Carcosa

�The King in Yellow, Act I, Scene II
Note the black stars, which become recurring symbols in the series. Black stars also appear as tattoos on the neck of the character of Carla, who first alerts Cohle and Hart to Dori's involvement with a strange "church."

The One Literary Reference You Must Know to Appreciate ​True Detective
But the weirdness gets even thicker in episode three. A revivalist tent preacher has the unusual name of Joel Theriot, which is one letter away from the name claimed by famed occultist Aleister Crowley, who referred to himself as Master Therion, aka The Beast 666. And I had to pause the show when I watched Theriot lower his head and make the sign of the cross on his chest�because he does it backwards (right to left, instead of left to right). Given the meticulous layering of clues and symbols throughout the other episodes, my guess is that was intentional.

Later in the episode, our detectives interrogate a convict named Charlie in a bare, concrete room, attempting to get information about their prime suspect, Reggie Ledoux, aka The Tall Man. Charlie had been a former cellmate of Ledoux's. Charlie was privy to some of the Tall Man's peculiar stories, which he relates to the detectives:

He said that there's this place down south where all these rich men go to, uh, devil worship. He said that, uh, they�they sacrifice kids and whatnot. Women and children all got�all got murdered there and, um, something about someplace called Carcosa and the Yellow King. He said there's all these, like, old stones out in the woods, people go to, like, worship. He said there's just so much good killin' down there. Reggie's got this brand on his back, like a spiral. He says that's their sign.
The spiral was found painted (tattooed?) on the murdered Dora's back, as well as on another victim Cohle discovered in the police archives. And in a recursive layering of clues, we've seen the spiral in another unusual sequence in episode two. As Cohle observes a group of birds outside of a burned church, they swirl and coalesce into the identical spiral formation before flying away. It's a chilling moment that has already been dissected by many viewers.

The One Literary Reference You Must Know to Appreciate ​True Detective
1
The idea of ancient standing stones as the scene of bizarre pagan rites and atavistic sacrifices is a common trope of weird fiction, too, and was employed by authors as far back as Arthur Machen and Lovecraft ("The Dunwich Horror"), up through Stephen King (in his short story "N"). I used such a scene in my own novel, Blackwater Lights.

And those are only a few of the Easter eggs and symbols embedded in this clever and meticulously constructed television drama. Take note, for instance, of the regular use of yellow�in Cohle's dim, depressing apartment and the smoky haze at the illegal warehouse rave. Yellow is visually linked to insanity, mental collapse, and decadence�another explicit echo of Chambers's iconic mythology.

But where, one might wonder, is this all going? Is this just writer Nic Pizzolatto dropping nods to his favorite authors and their fans? Some critics have dismissed the idea that the show is moving into the realm of the supernatural, but I have little doubt that it is going to only get much weirder and much, much darker. The clues are all there for those with eyes to see.

Why The King in Yellow? I think it's obvious, and I'll go out on a limb and say the season will continue with detectives Cohle and Hart edging closer to the abyss of what Lovecraft termed "cosmic fear," which he defined as:

A certain atmosphere of breathless and unexplainable dread of outer, unknown forces . . . a hint, expressed with a seriousness and portentousness becoming its subject, of that most terrible conception of the human brain�a malign and particular suspension or defeat of those fixed laws of Nature which are our only safeguard against the assaults of chaos and the daemons of unplumbed space.
In a revealing interview with the The Wall Street Journal, Pizzolatto discusses his love of existential horror and its most prominent authors, from Chambers and Lovecraft to modern masters of the weird Laird Barron and Thomas Ligotti:

Their fictional visions of cosmic despair were articulating the same things as certain nihilist and pessimist philosophers, but with more poetry and art and vision . . . It's important for us to confront the potential of the true abyss. . . .
Clearly, the present-day Cohle, with his glazed, vacant eyes and brutally nihilistic philosophy, is someone who has experienced the chaos and daemons lurking just over the edge of the interminable abyss. He explains his philosophy in his interview with the two current-day detectives:

You, yourself, this whole big drama, it was never anything but a jerry-rig of presumption and dumb will and you could just let go, finally know that you didn't have to hold on so tight. To realize that all your life, you know, all you love, all you hate, all your memory, all your pain�it was all the same thing. It was all the same dream, a dream you had inside a locked room, a dream about being a person. And like a lot of dreams . . . there's a monster at the end of it.
Cohle has seen the monster. I suspect we will, too.

"You made me watch"? Or "He made me watch"?

nm

It sounded like you made me so idk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSZ3dOCH5Vg

but odd right.

look, let's just talk about it -- the obvious, almost seems so obvious I'm not sure why they would even play it as an angle, plot line would be that Cohle obsessively decided he needed to go 'undercover' for roughly a decade and he's still lost within that world and hasn't been able to come back up. right? honestly, seems a bit facile for the show based on where we've come from to get here.

does make it a bit more interesting, I suppose, in retrospect, considering Cohle's interview with the detectives as some kind of misguided, misunderstood moment of 'contact' between the deep cover agent and the enforcement officers ready to pull him back from the brink. but then again, we DEFINITELY saw that Cohle was just as twisted and sideways way back when so his hypothetical trip into the wilderness doesn't seem like it's really changed the man at all, save the hair length and mustache.

obviously I don't think Cohle is the real suspect at this point, but then again he still owes Channing Tatum an apology... it does seem a bit simple to say he's been 'undercover' on his own vision quest, but I suppose they could still paint a picture that fills the character of Cohle in more. I dunno, that episode was definitely interesting, but perhaps a bit too simple a pivot...

>look, let's just talk about it -- the obvious, almost seems
>so obvious I'm not sure why they would even play it as an
>angle, plot line would be that Cohle obsessively decided he
>needed to go 'undercover' for roughly a decade and he's still
>lost within that world and hasn't been able to come back up.
>right? honestly, seems a bit facile for the show based on
>where we've come from to get here.


i dont think hes lost
or as lost as we thought he was
i think he has leads that are taking him back to who he works for
when woody said: this gave him an opportunity to study you

that was it for me

matt knew he was being followed and wanted to see who was and why and what they know
he wasnt the least bit surprised at those pictures of him

>does make it a bit more interesting, I suppose, in retrospect,
>considering Cohle's interview with the detectives as some kind
>of misguided, misunderstood moment of 'contact' between the
>deep cover agent and the enforcement officers ready to pull
>him back from the brink. but then again, we DEFINITELY saw
>that Cohle was just as twisted and sideways way back when so
>his hypothetical trip into the wilderness doesn't seem like
>it's really changed the man at all, save the hair length and
>mustache.

i saw that he wasnt that twisted and someone with his deep thought and philosophy
( i can relate as an aquarius and as someone who lived around a sort of madness)
you get introspective and reach out to sources to help you understand things on a different level
i think he has that and uses it to surf along in the worlds he needs to until he reaches his goals
the loss of his family allowed him to disconnect further
he isnt in deep anywhere and with anyone anymore
his turns at surprisingly cogent commentary seemingly from left field
but really he is just focused on a single goal
leads me to believe that dude isnt deep with anything but this case and his goals for solving it
thats his real high

>obviously I don't think Cohle is the real suspect at this
>point, but then again he still owes Channing Tatum an
>apology... it does seem a bit simple to say he's been
>'undercover' on his own vision quest, but I suppose they could
>still paint a picture that fills the character of Cohle in
>more. I dunno, that episode was definitely interesting, but
>perhaps a bit too simple a pivot...

it does seem simple
that fact that i feel like i have any clarity on this feels deceptive to me
lol
damn writer
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

...I think Hart is working with him and there was no fallout.

we know they've lied to the detectives a few times, already.

no reason that the fall out couldn't be a lie too.

>...I think Hart is working with him and there was no
>fallout.


I'm not so sure about Cohle and Hart working together. When the detectives let slip to Hart that Cohle didn't get them much, Hart told them Cohle was using the interview process to get information from them. If Hart and Cohle were working together, why would he let the detectives know Cohle would be that slick? Plus I kind of get the impression that Hart in his new position wouldn't want to risk going out on the ledge to back Cohle and his unconventional methods.

but i imagine cohle would need someone on the inside to run stuff for him occasionally (assuming he has just gone deep undercover).

...he's in on it that Cohle is undercover. That the two of them knew what had to be done, played the falling out so that Rust could go under.

Yo, if that's it, I'ma kirk out

I don't think he went undercover so to speak but I do think he left the force because he thought higher ups were involved and has been following the case on his own time. I think he is putting on the theatrics in his interview but his main reason for going into the interview is to find out what the police know.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

Like he was cool with it. Just rolled with it.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

to catch that quote there. Remarkable and almost scary he would think of saying something like that given the circumstances. And not that I think he did the murders, but did does know how to cover up his dirt fairly well.

when they leave the room?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

"It's corrosive, like acid. You got a demon, little man, and I don't like your face. It makes me want to do things to it." - DeWall



For the record I'm pretty sure Cohle isn't the killer. But after watching The Wire for five years I do know those other cops are dogging the case by the size of that file. LOL

Cool as hell as a viewer to be in on the lie as they both were telling it.

----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

>For the record I'm pretty sure Cohle isn't the killer. But
>after watching The Wire for five years I do know those other
>cops are dogging the case by the size of that file. LOL

It's possible they are withdrawing stuff from the current case file, especially if they think Cohle is the killer and basically brought him in the station to make him confess.

Anything Cohle said after he began drinking is inadmissable. He's no dummy.

I hope the behind the scenes stuff in included on the DVD/Blu-Ray release.

Speaking of layers to the show, I'm hoping the stuff with the daughter isn't a red herring. That time passage scene involving the tiara thrown up the tree was top notch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieCE3RTCGuE&feature=kp

this might have been obvious, but did you all see the star in the window in the final shot?

also--Is Hart's daugther acting like this because of her early exposure to some back-woods sex cult?

>also--Is Hart's daugther acting like this because of her early
>exposure to some back-woods sex cult?

The show seems to be inferring that Hart ignoring signs of his daughter's sexual deviancy is the reason she is the way she is; the two prior times the daughter showed signs of being out there with her views on sex, Hart pretty much ignored it. Also, although Hart seemed to be speaking mainly about his failing marriage when he spoke about ignoring things at home, while he was saying this, the montage of his daughter tossing the tiara in the tree went down while he was saying this if I remember correctly.

I think cohle might be an agent of the cult placed in police to clean up after them. Preview from next week kind of negates that but that's the theory I'm rolling with

kidding, anything is possible with this show.

ledoux says this to cohle before he gets shot.
cohle says it to the investigators before he starts one of his rants.

-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

dunno if that means anything plot-wise but it was a curiousity of mine.

"someone once told me..."

yes.but of course, you don't want to quote the supposed killer.

Its packed with an incredible amount of detail.

Love it.

it's just great to look at, even if you've seen the story already.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I imagine them watching each episode over & over again as if they were the true detectives themselves

Yeah.. I've watched each episode at least 3 times throughout the week preceding the next one.. Each time, it's still usually the best thing on TV.

plays a big part imo...didnt someone draw the yellow king ( Dora?) that looked like him?

>plays a big part imo...didnt someone draw the yellow king (
>Dora?) that looked like him?

I think it was when they were investigating the first missing daughter, the one with the baseball player dad who ended up having one of the wood constructions in his backyard. they were asking local cops if there was a string of disappearances in that region, and the cops said yeah a girl reported being chased -- here's the drawing she provided (*giggle*giggle*).

and yeah, in one of the posts above there's a comparison photo of the lawnmower man and the "green spaghetti monster" photo and it does seem like they could be the same.

i dont think he is the yellow king though. he def plays a part and is involved with Tuttle and the cult, but i dont think he is the leader.

Before Cohl goes to the school, it shows him at a computer searching through records that all say "MADE IN ERROR". What does that phrase mean and do we know the significance of that scene yet?

...but I'm pretty sure those were missing persons reports, and I'm thinking that "made in error" was Cohle realizing there's a sort of cover up going on. Which is where I started coming on board with the "2012 Cohle & Hart are still working together, with Cohle undercover" theory.

yeah i think it means that the reports were "made in error" ie redacted by the family member or whoever complained about the missing person. so yeah seems like they were paid off or its a cover up.

with her dad (i'm bad with names) but they said that the report of her missing was made in error and she had really ran away to be with her dad. so that's where i'm at with that...

http://imgur.com/kmU1sWh

think it relates to something that was said in episode 1. cohle was looking at the files of childress and mahoney.

dont mind me
i just wanted to say/type that

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I cant wait to go back and watch to try to pick up every little thing I missed.

I haven't deleted a single ep from my DVR. Its incredible.

I don't want to jinx it but shows have managed to piss away great early episode with terrible endings. See Lost.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

lol

rivals her infamous nudity on the show. I think it's better, but I don't want to ruffle too many people's feathers in this thread. I'm still kind of blown away she was bottonless in the infamous scene, especially since she didn't have to do it and it was such a short scene.


What else has she done that I should watch? I only remember her from being on Sunny in Philadelphia for one episode when Charlie either slept or almost slept with her.

On another note, this thread already has almost 10K views and the last episode for the show hasn't even aired yet. Bananas.

Does anyone also believe that Hart shooting Reggie was to keep him from saying something Hart would have wanted kept quiet and not out of outrage of finding a dead kid in there?
I was also rather perplexed by Cohle not addressing the fact that his partner shot a suspect in cold blood with no actual proof Reggie was responsible for the other disappearances. I thought somebody as smart as cohle would have wanted more than just a bust.

> I
>thought somebody as smart as cohle would have wanted more than
>just a bust.

he said so plain in his undercover days. So him not being mad, almost happy, Hart murked the dude in cold blood isn't surprising to me considering how remorseless he feels towards badguys (How he told dude he basically killed his ex-wife by showing her nudes, etc)

While you're right that a cynic like Cohle might want full closure, all the evidence of the antler's girl disappearance pointed directly to Reggie and by finding those two other kids shows a possible pattern to the other deaths. I don't blame him on stopping there considering there was no evidence of other deaths until later.

So I guess that's where his mind was at, at the time and case closed. The whole revisiting the case doesn't happen until Guy Leonard Francis mentions the Yellow King which lit a fuse in Cohle's head. This show is like playing LA Noir. Every detail, every word counts.

remember his girls clowning him for never having fired his gun. when cohle tells marty, "the shit you get soft about..." or whatever, to me shows how weak minded marty can be, so him having the visceral reaction to seeing those kids that way made him snap and act irrationally. im sure cohle wanted to get reggie in the box and pick his brain and make him admit to it, find out why. the way i read cohle telling marty that reggie deserved it was more about removing any guilt from martys head, because cohle knew he needed marty to be on point each time they told their story about the way it went down.

for once Cohle saw Marty react the way he would...he even said "fuck him! he deserved it. it's nice to see you commit to something", or something to that effect. it almost sounded like he was proud of him for not being his usual wishy washy self.

at the hardware store or whatever it was, when they were looking for the trailer brothel in the woods. Cohle lets Hart hop into the car, then goes back + works the guys over real fast just cuz he didn't like the first answer.

there could be something to Hart shooting Ledoux for ulterior motives, but Cohle's reaction seemed right in line with what we know about him.

1) cohle doesn't strike me as the "why'd you do that, Marty?" type of guy. something shitty or unexpected happens, you deal with it and move on. dude is used to constantly having to improvise (see everything with ginger in the prior episode). dwelling on shit that already happens, or haranguing marty about it, wouldn't solve anything.

2) covering up for marty puts marty in cohle's pocket. he defers all the heroic praise back at the office for marty. that gives him a card he can pull later, despite what may or may not have gone down between the two of them

3) dude deserved it, as plain as cohle says

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Screen-Shot-2014-02-04-at-10.46.36-AM.png

It looks as if Hart is side-eyeing Cohle while he's drinking that beer.

nothing in that pic...outside of marty's beer gut


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Roll me further bitch"

Is that it looks like Hart and Cohle are chummy, that there was no falling-out, and that perhaps the theory that Cohle has been undercover, or working the case somehow, with Hart's knowledge, is correct.

..is in the 1st ep.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

..i'm merely speaking on the theories thrown about regarding the conclusion

just stating the facts, sir.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

the end of Act 3.
If you go back and watch episode 1 after each episode (2-6) you will see they eluded to what was going to happen or what was happening in the first episode. It's all clues.

I don't think Cyren means its glaringly obvious what's going on but the story is laid out already, the clues are there, you just have to think beyond what you see to put the story together.

But I will admit, if you never read The King In Yellow some of the references won't make sense. The book really is important to dissecting some of this story. Though I'm sure if you don't read it, you will still get it in the end.

>
>I don't think Cyren means its glaringly obvious what's going
>on but the story is laid out already, the clues are there, you
>just have to think beyond what you see to put the story
>together.

..i made a statement in regards to the clues given in the first ep

its not an argument.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

*lmao nah thanks. I did mean "allude"

if that's the quote you are referring to

@rob_starrk

Hart's daughter isn't touched on in the first episode; going by your theory, she isn't involved in the 'current' case at all.

go back and watch it.

referring to the three instances so far of Hart's daughter showing signs of off the wall views on sex.

and he sees them playing the sex game with the dolls...is that in the second episode or the first?

but I think we should note that when he peeks in on them sleeping he does notice something odd, and frowns but brushes it off. that's the clue. he says later he didn't pay attention. you dont' need to know the specifics, because it's not about the daughter...it's about Hart not paying attention to his daughters at all. That's the story line.

http://imgur.com/PZkgqfn
http://imgur.com/C9P5inW
http://imgur.com/c5NbGgp
http://imgur.com/2viEmw0

what more conclusive proof do you need to see that hart's daughter is the yellow king?

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1902930_10202491427779948_106847645_n.jpg

.

http://twitter.com/collazo

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I knew chick from Banshee would end up naked

NWS http://i.imgur.com/pEK26KW.gif

...because I ain't buying that he didn't say "I'ma need to bang every bad bitch in this show."

and i've heard him interview high on the Stern show

i wouldnt put it past him

and it still being broken 8 years.

Cohle is coldblooded.
When he told the baby-killing mom to kill herself before she goes to jail? Yikes.

Marty is a dirty bastard but fucking his partner? Come on.

Great scene in the interrogation room when the detectives asked Maggie if she knew the reason for the breakup between Cohle and Hart
and she said no.

I thought she might have poisoned Marty's pasta after she saw that picture.

Sleeping with Rust and then telling Marty about it and calling him a coward when he wouldn't choke her out!! Saying she hadn't been fucked like that since BEFORE the girls!? Damn!

Maggie knew what she was doing when she slept with Cohle and Cohle knew as well. I was disappointed Cohle let himself get played like that by Maggie, it was obvious what she wanted and why when she showed up at his apartment.

Of course Maggie's whole interrogation scene was great.

I think from the jump there was an attracting between Maggie and Cohle. She enjoyed talking with him because she knew he was no-nonsense. She even said "Rust was comfortable with who he was." She found comfort in that.

And we've all been in those situations when we thought we wanted something and then after we get it - remorse and regret set it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

that's why he kicked her out like that...but he also let himself get played so it's on him as well.

with this cult/Yellow King in next weeks previews.

That's all I got; I'm just riding this shit out

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Why niggas be trying to prove Internet hypotheses?

Never more useless fascination

I'm with capt nish
Woody did too much at this point completely gratuitous
And while we got a bit of mcconaughey butt action it's not nearly balanced enough
Gotta side eye woody throwing his weight around for scenes like this and casting
Introduced a friend this weekend to the show and she was like his wife and mistress totally unrealistic
Eyed the prostitute Matt was buying from and said
Now that's his mistress if not wife
And you know what?
Yep

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I had an issue was them trying to set up this latest relapse into some weird 'noble failure' because Woody apparently stopped cheating/became a man of god/etc as opposed to continually being the sack of shit he normally was.

Woody is a cheater period, and even in his present day he defends it as a logical choice.

As far as the wife is concerned, my beef isn' with her sticking by him (realistic) or her totally checking out of the marriage on her own after a decade of holding down Woody's hypocrisy for some side peen (realistic)...even with her flirting with someone he's close but has friction with(realistic).

Where I call fugazi were her motivations (very soap opera-ish) and the way they absolve Rust of it and make HER the bad guy with her apologizing/getting thrown out and him cursing her out, lol. Basically in both Marty/Rust's narrative's there was a 'they got hit on a pretty girl and couldn't help themselves' macho man excuse going on and she's the whore wife (and we ain't even going to touch the mess that is the current daughter story line).

he's punching above his weight class repetitively
when she pointed it out i laughed because hes the exec producer
and she went ahhh
makes sense
one thing the wife
then the mistress...hrm
now?
dude?
nah we did this its redundant at this point and gratuitous


as for her character its believable as can be for what this show has done so far with women
they made her a shallow character
while it goes with the theme of the show
bad men vs very bad men
conflicted bad men
women are the puppets
as you can see its beginning to suffer from it
they dont know how to pull the women characters together realistically
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

the writer is aware of the criticisms regarding how women are written on the show:

https://twitter.com/friggenawesome/status/437369019666935808

Lana Guineay
‏@friggenawesome

Hey @nicpizzolatto if True Detective looked at feminine characters with the same lens as masculine, it would be PERFECT & MIND-BLOWING.


https://twitter.com/nicpizzolatto/status/437398700155875328


Nic Pizzolatto
‏@nicpizzolatto


@friggenawesome One of the detriments of only having two POV characters, both men (a structural necessity). Next season...

you cant even tell a story unless you have the super competent woman to balance everything out

i wish these writers would grow a pair and just ignore these broads

And women watching it want to see themselves represented in a realistic light. I personally don't care as much as some women might since I'm not female, but I can understand what their perspective is.

and more self serving the last episode made it apparent
but we'll see there are two more episodes to go

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

whats not realistic about the way theyre being portrayed?

as three-dimensional and fleshed out as Hart and Cohle are. I could see a woman that's a big fan of the show wanting the writer put more detail into a female chatacter. I personally am still a huge fan so far and the women in the story isn't a big deal to me. Especially since the season is only eight episodes long.

so why would anyone expect any other character to get fleshed out outside of their perspective?

like things they can relate to and identify with. Some women watching the show want a character they themselves can identify and develop a connection with, no matter how good the show is in general. In addition, since the main writer is capable of writing the two male leads so well, he should be able to do so with female characters as well.

are well developed characters?

the chief? ledoux? tuttle? ginger? 2 black detectives?

hell id argue the wife is the only one thats had any development out side of the detectives

there are people mad you can't play as a straight up girl in the new South Park game even though girls have always been treated like some kind of mystical clique in that series and you can technically be a goth rocking cross dressing 8 year old in that game if you want to.

there are reasonable complaints to be made about this stuff but people seem to be missing the forest for the trees sometimes, ignoring context in order to write their own narrative. or as Hart might say, "conjectural."

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

the women they encounter, the things the women go through, the set up...that's all part of the story. a "strong" woman character would not fit into this specific storyline and tell. Would y'all feel better if the black cops were women instead? or would there be something else to complain about?

it's really no pleasing ppl.

they are in the south, women are more submissive and docile. they are working a case where children and women are being abused and murdered...the women who are disappearing have other issues...which is why they were targeted by the killer. because no one would really miss the prostitute, the drug user...

y'all are making an issue where there isn't one. and ironically this is the first story y'all have seen from him. haven't read anything else he's written but can so easily write this off.

i swear.

I mainly did the copy and paste of those tweets to show how the writer responded to that criticism. It isn't my crusade or concern to 'save' the show to portray women differently. I'm a fan of the show.

twitter feed. I wonder what that means. Either he's tired of the criticisms or he revealed too much info for next season's arc. Hmmm. I hope he didn't bow down due to political correctness and if he chooses to display women more nuanced, it's organically done.

Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Walking Dead, IMO Masters of Sex as well, all have wives that are written for us to love to hate. Not sure if it's misogyny or a character trait that is used to engage viewers. Id' say misogyny if you asked me.

and wives are annoying at times

>Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Walking Dead, IMO Masters of Sex as
>well, all have wives that are written for us to love to hate.
>Not sure if it's misogyny or a character trait that is used to
>engage viewers. Id' say misogyny if you asked me.


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

from episode one that something would go down between Maggie and Coehl. I definitely thought she was feeling him, although i didn' think she'd use him to get back at Hart for cheating.

So now we see why they truly fell apart because while they were already having problems (Coehl feeling a way because he is doing all the work and Hart gets all the credit, along with other issues that I think goes back to the Dora case), I feel what truly made them stop talking was him sleeping with Maggie. That was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I am a bit curious to know what Hart did to those boys after he beat them up for getting with his daughter.

I'm still on this whole thing about Hart so easily killing Ledoux when it's established in Episode 1 that he never shot his gun before, never killed anyone. I think this is a lie. That Hart told his family. We already know he's an established liar

someone earlier said they think Tuttle is the yellow king. And I'm still iffy about that because Tuttle died in 2010 and the killings are still happening. but obviously tuttle is part of the group. i think it might be larger than Tuttle. idk.

Particularly since it was circumstance (Cohle's super stained record) that kept him from getting the praise. From the Ledoux cover up it seemed they were on the same page on it...Marty took all the credit and made sure that Rust got brought up with him.

It's also interesting because at least in the main part of the investigation they were on equal footing(even tho Marty was on the wrong side of the argument most of the time) until the badly timed marital problems during the raid.

Rust had so much contempt for Marty in 2002 it didn't seem as earned. Obviously it's a mix of the vicious nature of the criminals in their jobs (particularly the child/baby killers) and in those chew outs with the chief Marty didn't rush to defend him but it also seem he didn't even bother selling him on what was up before hand like the old days...he just automatically lumped him in as being not worth the trouble

they solved the Dora case. I'm sure Cohle* (spelling it right this time) didn't care initially about him not getting the full credit (because Hart was the lead) but after a while that takes its toll. He specifically says that it's been that way for years, he does the all the work and Hart takes the credit. He got the confession but Hart didn't even want to type it up (not sure if thats because he didn't like the way Cohle said it to him or what) but his anger and contempt isn't out of nowhere or undeserving. Who knows how many more cases they solved that Hart was the lead on...it's probably not even about getting shine but at least respect and while Hart is his friend and rides for him, he is still not respected in the police department. People still write him off as crazy and obsessed and that has to take its toll after a while.

Everybody was using Rust to get confessions. Marty even mentioned it, that other organizations used Rust to get confessions (he was the Box Man).

So Rust gets used by all these organizations and still nobody likes him. Years of being the man that gets confessions and breaks cases yet everybody throws shades at him. Think about it, Marty could have probably done more to help with this but he's self serving.

Rust finally snapped, especially since nobody seems concerned with the connections he's building around mass killings.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the man clearly (from the beginning) was antisocial and borderline nihilistic. I doubt very much that there was anything Hart could have done to endear him to other police. It was repeatedly stated that Hart is the only one that stood up for him.

Imo, it doesn't seem so much that Hart left Cohle out to dry, as it was Cohle's nature eventually won out. After breaking up with his gf and diving into unsolved case, he had less and less reason to pretend to be normal.

They're both screwed up characters.

This is why I'm upset this show is only one season. They could get into an entire season just based on him being undercover for 4 years. Who knows the shit he saw or did. And how he "screwed up" which lead him to being undercover for so long.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is all speculation. feeling slighted is natural. he's not noble because he does all of the work. not at all. it really speaks to his character of being antisocial. he clearly shows that in his interviews with ppl. he's almost chameleon like in his ways with criminals. but he's not devoid of feelings...and that's what ppl are missing. just because he's a loner doesn't mean that's what he truly wants to be.

currently directly two

Hart not helping nor standing up to his superior in the office
rust knows Hart wouldnt nor couldnt but it stil gets in his way of being on the case
and now
doubly Harts personal life being a mess again inferring with him being on the case
cause when they broke up no one wants to work with dude or cover for him

yes all this is silly to blame him for but he showed his manner of thinking with Maggie
hes a bit of a narcissist when it comes to this case

LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!
smh*
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

he sees him as another lacky in the department who refuses to acknowledge all this shit that's going on. When Hart killed Ledoux, Rus felt like he was taking action against a wrong and he liked that about him...so he was down to cover it up because "fuck him, he deserved it" and went along with the whole hero praise and everything. it even made him happy for a time until the whole Yellow King thing resurfaced. Then he was back investigating it all and Hart's just sitting around still living off his past glory, which was really ushered in by Rus. If Hart had his back with the extra investigations he's got going on their original agreement might still stand but Hart is disassociating himself from it all which Rus doesn't respect at all.

Rus doesn't care what Hart does with his personal life but the fact that he can sit around and play dumb to the whole situation with everything he knows rubs Rus the wrong way. None of this had anything to do with him fucking Maggie though. He was drunk and has always liked her so he fucked her...he's just as wrong as she is for that one.

I don't know why I didn't connect the dots on this earlier. But after Hart offs Ledoux, Cohle says, "Glad to see you commit to something."

What did Hart say about Cohle to the investigating detectives? "You weren't getting a read on Cohle, he was getting a read on you."

Cohle was calling Hart out on all his commitment issues:

- Relationship
- Job
- Hart's commitment to Cohle

Even Hart's wife called him out when she said "he could have been much more." It's like Hart just settles because he's not committed enough and this aspect bugs the hell out of Cohle.

The second part of the Ledoux scene that is symbolic of their relationship is, after Hart offs Ledoux he ask Cohle, "What do you need me to do?"

This shows how much Cohle is committed to everything that Hart is not; and how Cohle is the brains of their partnership. Hart is only committed to the point that it helps Hart. It shows Hart's self-serving nature.

This, is why their relationship deteriorates. Cohle does all the heavy lifting and Hart gets all the credit. The confession from the lady that killed her children highlights this. Cohle does all the talking, gets the confession, and then tells hart to type it up.

Hart is pissed because it's a 40 page confession. He doesn't want to do THAT much work and Cohle calls him on this too. Cohle is just tired of all the BS.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

all throughout their partnership Cohle knows Hart is a piece of shit in his personal life but he does good police work and is willing to go all the way with him to get the job done...once he stopped committing to that, Cohle lost all respect for him.

not that he wants to BE Hart, but that it upsets him to see Hart be the way he is and still have the things he has....Cohle clearly likes Harts family, but tolerates Hart...i think it irked him to see dude cheat on his wife and not be there for his kids... remember, before the series starts Cohle at one point had a wife and kid, like most people who lose a child I'm sure he wishes he still had them....but losing them makes him the man he is today.....like someone else said, it's Hart's sense of noncommittment to anything that really ticks Cohle off...it's clear that Hart can be great at whatever he does if he really puts forth an effort, but he's halfheated in all of it....then they're closing these cases and he feels like he's putting in more effort, and they all love Hart...still treating him like shit...the work he's put in doesn't really matter to his colleagues, it's all about his bedside manner with them and that's part of the reason he finds many of the irrelevant...even in the end when they suspend him, dude acts like Hart has been carrying Cohle all these years which has to be terribly insulting...and i don't think Cohle was ever really pissed, just really frustrated and feeling like he was in a no win situation, which he was....he probably though with more cases closed that he'd get more respect and people would treat him less like a pariah, but instead they just brought him in to help them and quickly shooed him away after they got what they wanted...

No message

he offered them the option. Take the charge, and do their time with rapo tags, or take the beatdown.

they lucked up

>I am a bit curious to know what Hart did to those boys after
>he beat them up for getting with his daughter.

I wonder how badly he beat up the other boy seeing as how they cut away from that scene.

>I wonder how badly he beat up the other boy seeing as how
>they cut away from that scene.

i kind of like the touch of cutting away, for that reason... just the whole "Damn, this kid is so fucked" feeling before they cut away.

Cohle's punchlines are cashing out like 7 years later.

Highlighted for me by Cohle stating what was gonna happen to the child murderer and then telling her to kill herself. Dude is just so calculated and detached.

The entire ep was great. Marty is obv a real piece of shit (down payment?), Cohle trying to fight his attraction to Maggy during that scene was so good, and Tuttle's line about "not trusting a man who can't trust himself with a bottle" was such a killer, Cohle's smirk reaction was perfect.

It's hard to even comment on the show because it's so obviously great. . Can't wait for next week....

If he didnt really give a fuck and was ready to just kill him - he coulda done it in 2002. Instead they purposefully show Hart leaving the gun and his ring in the drawer -- cause I think he knew if he took those things he wouldve felt the urge to use them. Just in terms of filmmaking they coulda just showed Hart not leaving those things and the audience might not have thought twice about why he didnt use the gun at least.

I think their fight in front of the chief was staged. There was tension but they wanted to see where the chief was at. I mean their style of arguing throughout wasnt that juvenile. (They were throwing middle fingers and fuck yous back and forth at each other like middle schoolers). That was all a show to the chief to a) see where the chief was at and b) to get him to think there was beef.


Then Cohle fucked Hart's wife and shit really popped off. I think Hart knows some of what Cohle is investigating, so theyre in it together (albeit with some tension). But he knew that day in 2002 that if he took his gun and ring there woulda been a lot more damage, and he didnt wanna kill Cohle, cause he knows what Cohle is working on.


BTW we all think Cohle took it easy on Hart because of his guilt right? I mean he ended up fucking him up with the toss but from what we've seen of Cohle and how scared Hart usually is around him, Cohle shouldve fucked Hart up virtually unmarked. He definitely let Hart get licks in cause he felt guilty about fucking his wife and knew he was wrong.


So tuttle is involved as one of the rich guys--but he's not teh guy and the yellow king, right?

Im feeling anxious about what this Yellow King looks like. Going back to the short story description and how scared people are of him. Im expecting some freaky shit.

I wonder if Cohle's story about the car accident killing his daughter and divorce is real.

Im guessing its fake (when he told he story back in episode 2 it still seemed like what they were telling the detectives was true). Bit looking back--- we know Cohle is deeply fucked up about some shit. He sees ghosts. Something bad like what happened to these girls happened to his daughter and maybe his wife --- that's why he's so involved. Also the fact that dude that Woody blasted said he had seen him before....

>I think their fight in front of the chief was staged. There
>was tension but they wanted to see where the chief was at. I
>mean their style of arguing throughout wasnt that juvenile.
>(They were throwing middle fingers and fuck yous back and
>forth at each other like middle schoolers). That was all a
>show to the chief to a) see where the chief was at and b) to
>get him to think there was beef.
>

I can see that because you see how quickly Hart responded that Cohle's suspension was too heavy handed.

>Then Cohle fucked Hart's wife and shit really popped off. I
>think Hart knows some of what Cohle is investigating, so
>theyre in it together (albeit with some tension). But he knew
>that day in 2002 that if he took his gun and ring there woulda
>been a lot more damage, and he didnt wanna kill Cohle, cause
>he knows what Cohle is working on.
>

Totally agree with this. When Hart started taking his shit off to go outside my wife turned to me and said, "He don't want no parts of Cohle." I mean, Cohle was undercover with a a bike gang for 4 years. You know dude knew how to scrap. Plus one of the early scenes, I think in episode 2 when Hart had Cohle against the locker. Cohle was all cool and with that I'll eff you up assassin voice was like, "I just need to apply some pressure to your wrist and I'll snap them."

I mean, Cohle saw Hart charging him and pretty much let it happen.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.

Spaghetti hair, check
Green ears (from mowing grass), check

And if you go back and re-watch that episode he has buns on his face.

Shiny chin, check
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

somethings hidden there he's looking for. He didnt mow the shit for no reason - or to fuck with hart - hes not that kinda guy. The type of sticks used to make those dreamcatcher things or a certain grass. Mowing Harts lawn ties in with the lawnmower man at school somehow.

Maybe he cant tell Hart cause hes not sure if Hart is involved too.

Also how Hart says his biggest mistake was his inattention.

Was it just to have an eye on the police? Was Marty's family/parents tied in somehow?

Are those really Marty's kids? Was the wife a prostitue Marty once helped?

Anyone do an analysis of names? I hate names as a literary device, but authors love using them.

Rustin cohle?

Rust is like a cancer to metal. Once it starts its hard to get rid of without removing the piece.
Coal dangerous hard black. Mined from deep.

Martin/ Marty/ mardi
Fat in French?
Fat something to do with the feast before lent. Over indulgence before lean times.
Hart = heart

May also refer to Marty's " fat" or big heart or being a big softy?

Man now I'm obsessed. Counting days til Sunday.

maybe there is no mystery to it really

http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2014/02/true-detective-theories-misguided-opinion/

.

At least nothing like "Rust is the Yellow King".


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

Mardi doesn't mean fat, it means Tuesday, in French.

>Martin/ Marty/ mardi
>Fat in French?
>Fat something to do with the feast before lent. Over
>indulgence before lean times.
>Hart = heart
>
>May also refer to Marty's " fat" or big heart or being a big
>softy?
>
>Man now I'm obsessed. Counting days til Sunday.

The guy says he works for the Parrish, and has been working at the Tuttle schools all through the state. It would also explain why the symbols Cohle discovers inside the school are fairly new.

Also, in the scene right before they show the lawnmower man, 2012 Cohle tells the detectives that he knows if so done has does it or not within two minutes of talking to him. The lawnmower man is the only person he doesn't talk to for even two minutes; he starts talking to him, but gets interrupted by Martin, because they get the info on LeDeau.

I'm willing to bet it's him.

When Cohle and Martin go to the revival in the beginning of the episode, the staff says the women was seen with a tall man with burns/scars on his face. When Cohle interacts with the Lawnmower Man, he's sitting on the mower, so Cohle can't tell if he's tall or not. So he wouldn't be able to identify him.

Peep the episode listing...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0281909/?ref_=tt_cl_t14

now, he could. they think he's(cohle) the killer and all marty would have to say is that cohle tried to put a move on him, and they would conveniently sweep it under the rug.

>If he didnt really give a fuck and was ready to just kill him
>- he coulda done it in 2002. Instead they purposefully show
>Hart leaving the gun and his ring in the drawer -- cause I
>think he knew if he took those things he wouldve felt the urge
>to use them. Just in terms of filmmaking they coulda just
>showed Hart not leaving those things and the audience might
>not have thought twice about why he didnt use the gun at
>least.

None of this makes much sense. There's been far too many scenes where they were alone and hating each other for this to be a passable development IMO. And everything we've seen from Woody so far shows he WOULD react that crazy to Rust sleeping with his wife. He told that other chick he would skullfuck her, yo.

And Woody's acting in the final scene last night was pretty obviously a man who was shit-scared about Rust showing back up after all these years, and needed to load his gun for their meeting for protection.

The writer's already said that this show isn't trying to trick us as well.

Fell perfectly in line with all the character's reactions and personalities, and as you said, Pizzolato has mentioned numerous times that there are no tricks in the show.

just resentment because he was getting confessions or was it because of teh way Cohle was getting them? There was that brief moment where you see the disgust in Cohle's face at how Marty was using his Psychology (also maybe slightly supernatural) ability to get confessions?

Then he asks that question to hate and throw everything off before Cohle eye shoos him out the room

Cohle until the moment Rust walks out of the mental ward..

CHILLS.

http://theinterrobang.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/giftrued2.gif

i love this show

Delete them pics dude.

I love that everybody is lying to mouzone and his partner. Just straight lying.

Don't really care much about the yellow king or the Lange case. This story is so good.

Vondas!
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

Peep the photo on the bedroom wall: http://imgur.com/cvRO1FF

Peep the mural at the nut hut: http://imgur.com/a/l0Z01

...

Could be just a lazy set designer, though.

Why I'm so damn obsessive about it!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~
www.twitter.com/ear2ear

not paying attention to the younger daughter who is "fine and unaffected" as some of you have said.

hmmmmm....

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

about Russ fucking Marty's wife. 7 years after the fact.

especially Russ who doesn't give a fuck.

He does his part and keeps his mouth shut.

Also, that ass....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but then again, whyd the two new deteks call her in?


>about Russ fucking Marty's wife. 7 years after the fact.
>
> especially Russ who doesn't give a fuck.

...both him and his wife were "friends" of Cohle during their partnership. That he visited their house, that his wife kept trying to set him up with her friends. The current detectives figure that she was as aware of how he acted during that period as anyone, since they were two of the very few people who interacted with him socially.

unless the poster above meant the 3 involved (Marty, Rust, and Maggie)

>...both him and his wife were "friends" of Cohle during their
>partnership. That he visited their house, that his wife kept
>trying to set him up with her friends. The current detectives
>figure that she was as aware of how he acted during that
>period as anyone, since they were two of the very few people
>who interacted with him socially.

i still don't quite get why they all omitted that factoid. hard to believe that's still an open wound. i'm curious why the hesitance to say "we fell out because he fucked my wife"

>i still don't quite get why they all omitted that factoid.
>hard to believe that's still an open wound. i'm curious why
>the hesitance to say "we fell out because he fucked my wife"
>

lol!

He fancies himself as "a humble guy with a big dick" who is great at what he does, gets along with everyone, and has shit together. The closest he ever gets to acknowledging any weakness is when he tells the detectives that his greatest sin is not noticing things (paraphrasing, can't remember exactly what he said). He would see admitting that his partner also fucked his wife as much as his own weakness as a man. It's better to go with, "We just came apart."

if you pay attention.

Marty says Rust had the best nose for weakness he'd ever seen and then our first evidence of that isn't an interrogation but an illegal assault.
They're explaining how raiding the meth lab was like 'Nam to the detectives while the scene is playing out like Rainbow Six.
They had a falling out over Rust's wild ideas about Tuttle when really it was him fucking Marty's wife.
Etc.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

marriage is over, careers have moved on (in Marty's case, would be more understandable you broke down like that over wifey), it's not like telling the detectives something in the interviews would somehow make tabloid headlines or be read aloud in court in front of kids or new partners (if there are any).

in the end, I guess I don't think it means too much except that it's a whole episode that all involved are ashamed of and want to leave in the past. seems weird they're ducking detective questions over it, though.

each of them for their different reasons, so why cop to anything outside of the "official" story? nobody on the force in 2002 knew what caused the rift, so why give these guys another thread they can start pulling?

their triangle went down

>marriage is over, careers have moved on (in Marty's case,
>would be more understandable you broke down like that over
>wifey), it's not like telling the detectives something in the
>interviews would somehow make tabloid headlines or be read
>aloud in court in front of kids or new partners (if there are
>any).
>
>in the end, I guess I don't think it means too much except
>that it's a whole episode that all involved are ashamed of and
>want to leave in the past. seems weird they're ducking
>detective questions over it, though.

Okay, I am making my prediction now. I think this will be the most important line of the series.

I don't think there will be that moment when everything raps up neatly.

I think there will be a lot of loose ends but, if the show is great, will still end in a satisfying manner.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

I think it may remain unresolved if it was an actual "conspiracy" or not: Whether the Governor's cousin was involved, whether the police brass looked the other way, etc. But I think the "Who's the Yellow King?" mystery definitely gets closed; most that may be the least important piece.

And will Marty or Rust get set up for the murders.

I wouldn't consider this a spoiler, but just things that have been sad it sounds like we get a true conclusion when this all ends... so I don't think it will be some abstract ending

these were all taken from production members on the shows instagram accounts, so i dont think there is any major spoiling.

http://imgur.com/a/3BxDH

http://i.imgur.com/2pGFFDp.jpg

http://imgur.com/s0LPyEU

http://imgur.com/RUgAzTO

http://i.imgur.com/hMvK2QD.jpg

http://distilleryimage0.s3.amazonaws.com/b23022d6d40c11e2a3eb22000a1fbdaa_7.jpg

http://distilleryimage8.ak.instagram.com/bb9d33c6a25311e2b13b22000a9e0790_7.jpg

http://imgur.com/gMZ4V0Z

http://imgur.com/XIazMx0

http://imgur.com/1VhVVvk

http://i.imgur.com/doLoFjJ.png


there is some really amazing sets on this show and the location shots are just insanely beautiful.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

its clear now that marty and rust uncover some real human sacrifice devil worship type stuff thats been going on for years. look at all those little childrens skulls in that nd pic..creepy as hell. in the last pic you can see carcosa written on the wall and bael.

where they've connnected pretty much everyone in this photo to someone on the show...
https://www.facebook.com/TrueDetective/photos_stream#!/photo.php?fbid=657301740978503&set=pb.540297149345630.-2207520000.1393425029.&type=3&theater

Highlights of this episode:

-Best ad for T Mobile ever.That Starfish roaming plan will sell like hot cake. That booty was deceptively enticing tho .Hard to fight.

-The Marshland Medea interrogation scene at the beginning is my favorite part of the episode by far. I love when he takes her hands in his to establish trust while almost simultaneously telling her to off herself when she has the chance. LOL @ Hart's " Lady ever heard of a condom"? ( His only contribution to that interrogation) which pissed me off when he acted all undignified when told to file the report.

- Hart goes full A-hole on this one. It start with him putting work on his jailed daughter's sexual partners; banging the T-Mobile employee while carrying a huge bag full of tampons, getting busted by the wifey. I was also expecting that spaghetti meal to repeat what we saw on The Help. Daughters can't stand him because he's selfish; and falling out with his partner who is really the main reason he gets some shine in that community.

- The Tuttle visit is my second favorite scene from Haunted houses. Tuttle knows what Cohle's after. Cohle knows that Tuttle knows but they politely play it out in a courteous and civilized manner which is still full of tension. You can tell both dudes are toying with each other as they both smirks, like they're playing chess.The discussion of the death of Theriot is also intense as a mug. At the end , I love how Cohles tells Tuttle's assistant that he will be back later.Like a threat. When Papania and Gilbough tell Maggie that Tuttle was found dead from an overdose...It begs the question..WFT happened even though Fuck him.He deserved it. Tuttle might not be the Yellow king but he's involved in the killings, somehow on some The Wicker Man shit.

- 2012 Maggie 's a lot sexier than before. She graduated to some Skylar notoriety in this one. Her bangin' drunk Cohle was painful to watch. Almost like a rape scene. Especially after she puts her panties back up to make him realize, it was all business.It's a pity since she recognized that Cohle is one the few people she knows with integrity and a sense of responsibility. Hart is such a punk how he reacted to her telling him what she did.Came out of it real bitch-made. Almost everything he does is triggered by impulses he can't control. Is Cohle his only friend? Because in the way they depict Cohle as an antisocial loner; it's not like we see Hart hangin' out with other friends.

-The little girl they rescued becoming a nut case was also pretty hard to watch. Great acting. I believed the crazy, "His face"!

Overall less intriguing than the previous episodes. It advances the storyline by revealing the narrative of Cohle and Hart's fall out. How Hart's marriage died, The reason why the police is interrogating them.
I know that Matthew McConaughey gets all the love from fans of the show; somewhat deserved, but I really enjoy Woody's acting on this show.Especially these last 3 episodes.I think we all know someone like him.

yes!

but she topped the potential of that for fucking with his head for sure
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

- Are we supposed to be mad at Maggie? This fool Marty been slanging dick to any young chick that will take it, putting his family last and generally being a terrible parent. She chose Cohle specifically because she knew he couldn't ignore that, he wouldn't stand for it. Kudos to her, but shame on rust for allowing it to go down, I'm thinking she had a booty double.

- Would love for the Yellow king to be the grass cutter, but I feel like that's too easy. We'll see though.

- I watch Marty and it blows me away. This dude clearly doesn't value his family in a real way. He values it in an abstract sort of this is how life is made easy for me, but not in a real value. He's sitting there coming in just washed the smell of pussy off him, his clothes directly in the wash and acting like he's the king. Man that dude has some balls, but really its an act. He couldn't even be mad at her because he knew he was fucking up.

- Rust is cold blooded, and he REALLY hates bad people. He knows that they come in all different shapes and sizes, but at the end of the day they're all bad people and they need to be done away with.

- Marty and Rust meeting on the hwy couldn't have been the first time they've spoken since their fight.

- What if Marty kills Rust in the final scene to keep the Yellow King free?

but marty deserved that. and cohle should get some blame as well but she was still the aggressor.

She wanted to do shit that would legit hurt Marty, but not even she understands how deeply connected those two are.

She doesn't know the truth about the LeDeaux story, so she doesn't truly understand what she's done. She knew they were close because they were partners, but she doesn't REALLY know. So in that sense you say yea she's fucked up, but she's only working with half the picture.

I feel like there's way more important stuff, and this can't be the first time they've talked since their fight.

we are finally in the present.

Marty is a bonafide a-hole he deserves everything he gets but the fact that Maggie steps so low for revenge, makes her an a-hole too IMO.Especially when she has to involve Russ who has nothing to do with their mess and whom she seemed to genuinely like.

But like I was saying above, she doesn't REALLY know how deep their shit goes.

Like if she did, 1. she'd be wildly afraid of who the real Rust Cohle is, and 2. I don't think she'd go that far as to purposely choose Rust for this mission. She might still be that dastardely, but she'd be very well afraid of the consequences. At this point clearly she's not.

the initial murder, marty shooting ledoux and the whole coverup. so yeah, marty and rust have a deep history, but the time in between is what makes all this possible. even marty acts like he doesn't owe shit to cohle, who is the sole person responsible for making marty who he is on the force today.

cohle is volatile and dangerous, but not to maggie. even when he showed up at their house wasted you could see them starting to connect.

she did rust a little dirty, but he didn't have to let it happen. part of him probably wanted a blow up with marty anyway.

Cohle is sick and tired of Marty's shit because he's starting to act and believe the story that they crafted to save his ass.

Like someone mentioned up there, Rust got caught off guard and got caught slipping, usually he would've turned that shit down and made her feel horrible for even bringing that to him. Instead he was like yea, i'm drunk, and she looking kinda right, i'm about to play out this thing i've had in my head about her for the last 7 years. So it happened.

>even marty
>acts like he doesn't owe shit to cohle, who is the sole person
>responsible for making marty who he is on the force today.

You can say this from both sides. Cohle wouldn't have had the *chance* to bring Marty along with that case if Marty didn't stick up for him to the brass to keep him on the case in the first place. They both had a hand in eachother's rise in reputation as a result of that case, it wasn't as one sided as you're making it sound. Marty's co-sign allowed for Cohle to do a lot of the dirty work. So they both helped eachother out in a major way.


>cohle is volatile and dangerous

Cohle is volatile, but I wouldn't consider him dangerous at all. I think Marty's more dangerous than Cohle since Marty acts off emotion far more than Cohle does. The only time we have seen Cohle really slip at all was the Maggie situation.


>she did rust a little dirty, but he didn't have to let it
>happen. part of him probably wanted a blow up with marty
>anyway.

Yea this is true. Cohle was fed up with Marty becoming a company man despite the fact that he knew the deal, so I think subconsciously he let that happen *because* he was pissed at Marty even if immediately afterward he felt regret about it and was pissed.

shit. but cohle helped cover up an execution, and turned that shit into commendations and promotions for marty. so i guess i give cohle a bit more credit.

but we're on the same page that they definitely both owed a lot to the other.

Whether it was drugs or not, who knows (not ruling it out), but I *definitely* got the sense from the interrogation with the baby killer in the box to the blow-up and insults against Marty over the write-up that Cohle was off sleep in a serious way. A healthier Cohle would have the little reservoir of will it takes to avoid doing things like telling people he loathes to kill themselves or to avoid poisoning the relationship with his only friend for no good reason (over a write-up??).

It was like the actual police work was just a distraction from his real work, the Yellow King case, which he was doing with all his non-work hours of the day (and night). Even when Maggie comes through, Cohle gets so angry because he feels like she preyed on him in a moment of weakness, that for a brief moment Cohle was just the pawn being used by Maggie in a revenge plot against her husband. In other circumstances Cohle could have dealt with all this better, but the case has so consumed him that he begins making mistakes.

I thought it was fascinating and in particular another great performance wrinkle by McConnaughey. Fuck Dallas Buyers Club, he should win Best Actor for this.

I just think he was sick and tired of the new commissioner, Marty, and the whole system's bullshit and he ceased being able to hide it or put on a good face about it. He was just weary, IMO. He didn't appear to me to be someone who was suddenly in the depths of a heavy drug addiction, though perhaps sleeping pills and/or some type of pills to keep him awake to do the Yellow King work aren't out of the question I suppose, but those were always present.

I got the impression that every hour -- EVERY HOUR -- outside of working hours were consumed with obsessive research into the Yellow King case. Cohle was at the low point of an obsessive jag and the "routine" police work of pulling assists for Mart (+ everyone else) was a nuisance to Cohle. The sever sleep loss just made it so he was weak, couldn't do what was necessary to maintain appearances -- in telling the perp to kill herself, in condescending to Marty, in fucking wifey even though he knew it was a mistake while he was doing it.

Add in that we saw how Cohle hit those drugs before with the bikers and it would be reasonable to suspect he might have some addictive tendencies that could wear on him. So I dunno if for sure it was drugs, but I definitely got the impression Cohle was running on fumes for one reason or another that existed just a bit outside the frame of the story we saw.

Nice ass Marty
Nice hook Marty

I was so happy that he didn't go out like a two dimensional slick country preacher.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

He played it well but it was unexpected

>I was so happy that he didn't go out like a two dimensional
>slick country preacher.

No doubt. This last ep was vintage Whighage.

Folks all over the place, I want to see who calls it best.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/02/27/true-detective-nic-pizzolatto-season-1/


'True Detective' creator Nic Pizzolatto on Carcosa, hideous men, and the season 1 endgame
By Jeff Jensen on Feb 27, 2014 at 11:50AM

Image Credit: James Bridges/HBO
Comments 5
HBO�s much praised crime anthology True Detective is nearing the climax of its engrossing eight-episode first season with a head of hard boiled steam and so many mysteries. Who really killed Dora Lange? Might our enlightenment-challenged heroes � pessimist grump Rust Cohle (Matthew McConaughey) and dim Everyman Marty Hart (Woody Harrelson) � actually be the villains? Will an otherworldly spaghetti monster soar and seize control of the godless Louisiana waste? We brought creator Nic Pizzolatto in for questioning and tried to make him spill. �In our third act, timelines, action and character all align. In that way, they may play as the most traditional episodes of True Detective,� he says. �Everything is moving toward a culminating action.� Here, Pizzolatto teases future developments (so SPOILER WARNING!) and discusses the significance of The King In Yellow, the influence of Vietnam War narratives, and why he made Reginald Ledoux wear a jock strap.
EW: Let�s cut to the chase. Should we suspect Rust or Marty of the murders they�ve been investigating?
NIC PIZZOLTTO: By episode 7, it�s clear if Cohle or Hart is guilty. I knew some of the audience would suspect Cohle strongly. I knew others would predict a more far-reaching, mind-bending game at work. I hope they are all surprised, but feel in hindsight that that the outcome was inevitable.
You�ve cultivated so much palpable dread that some are convinced that supernatural forces are at work.
GET EW ON YOUR TABLET: Subscribe today and get instant access!
Like Cthulhu is going to rise up and take control of the world of True Detective?
Ummm� is it?
I hope the audience will be pleasantly surprised by the naturalism of the entire story. If you look at the series so far, what seems supernatural actually has real-world causes, like Cohle�s hallucinations, or even the nature of the crime. It has occult portents, but there is nothing supernatural about it.
Many of us have been puzzling over the significance of The King In Yellow, an 1895 collection of meta-fictional �Weird Fiction� by Robert W. Chambers that influenced generations of horror and pulp writers. What�s the significance to you?
You know, in the very first draft of episode two, Dora, in her diary, actually talks about �The Cypress King and his Stone Court.� In writing, I noticed that Southern Gothic took you smoothly into the �Weird Tale,� whose visions of cosmic horror took you into noir and pulp. The King In Yellow is in there because it�s a story about a story, one that drives people to madness. Everything in True Detective is composed of questionable narratives, inner and outer, from Cohle�s view that identity is just a story we tell ourselves, to the stories about manhood that Hart tells about himself, to the not always truthful story they tell the detectives investigating them. So it made sense � to me, at least � to allude to an external narrative that that is supposed to create insanity, or as I prefer, deranged enlightenment. When I did that, a kind of secondary language began to form in the scripts, where the notion of cosmic horror became a very real part of the environment, at least for those who know Chambers� work.
The cult possibly responsible for the murders worships a figure known as �The Yellow King� and refers to a place called �Carcosa.� These words come from Chambers� book. Will you make plain what they mean to the world of True Detective?
Yeah, I think so. To be clear, in our show, nobody is going to reference a book by Robert Chambers called The King In Yellow. Then we�d just have an episode where Hart and Cohle are just reading The King In Yellow. � I just did a DVD commentary that plainly explains , but a lot of things are left in fragments for the viewer to piece together about how we arrived at where we arrive. You know, you can Google �Satanism� �preschool� and �Louisiana� and you�ll be surprised at what you get. But instead of having our Satan worshippers worship Satan, they worship The Yellow King.
Many of us see True Detective depicting the idea of fallen world (a must read: Maureen Ryan�s essay on the theme), or a world where �God is dead� (at least, according to the anti-gospel according to atheist Cohle) and challenged with meaninglessness and nihilism. It would even seem to suggest that we fill the void or assuage the anxiety with our fiction, for better worse, be it with mythic hero stories, or tales of law and order, or crazy cult-pop texts like The King In Yellow. Is this a valid interpretation?
I think that�s a really valid interpretation. If you look at the symbol of that cult

, the spiral, it�s also a gyre, isn�t it? The �widening gyre� of Yeats� �The Second Coming.� And that�s what you�re describing: The falcon cannot hear the falconer/things fall apart; the center cannot hold. So what you have here � and this is the part where True Detective is like a Western � is that you have these spiritual ancestors of the type of men who settled the frontier, but now they�re roaming this exhausted frontier.
You�ve mentioned that True Detective represents a catalogue of your cultural obsessions and influences. Could you mention a few?
There are so many. Whatever I watched, whatever I loved in 36 years of life on Earth, probably had some influence on me. For example, Cohle�s space-time speech. I can tell you that that�s Nietzsche�s eternal recurrence, and that is indeed Nietzsche�s line that time is a circle, that �all truth is crooked, time itself is a circle.� But that�s also quantum cosmology and Brane Theory. And then I remember that I was inspired by a line from Marilynne Robinson�s Gilead, and I am paraphrasing: �He believed our lives were the songs they sung in eternity.� And then I had this thought about the human complaint � Job�s complaint � being reduced to: �I think I�m a character in a story, and I don�t like how you�re telling my story. I do not like it at all.� But beyond something that highbrow? My influences? That seventies British cop show The Sweeney is in there. The three Davids are in there � Chase (The Sopranos), Milch (Deadwood), Simon (The Wire). Michael Mann (Thief, Manhunter, Heat) is in there. The last 15 minutes of episode four is a Michael Mann tribute album. Faulkner was there, too. A lot of speculative philosophy. A lot of pulp fiction. Red Harvest by Dashiell Hammett, still to me maybe the best crime novel ever. In the savagery, in the exhausted frontier. It was all kinds of things.
One of the most haunting images in the show came in episode three, when we first glimpsed Reginald Ledoux wearing a gas mask and underwear.
I can tell you where that came from. That was written very specifically, that he has that kind of gas mask on, and he�s walking around with a jock strap and tattoos on. The jock strap and the tattoos, I couldn�t think of anything more frightening than that coming at me through the woods. But the gas mask, I remember being inspired by Hieronymous Bosch�s portraits of hell and a monstrous, fallen world

and photographs of masks that plague doctors used to wear. Long needle noses. And some of those World War One gas masks. The point is that they�re very unearthly. It makes human beings look more insect like. Those pointy masks are just really, really freaky. So I wanted a gas mask the recalled the proboscis of a mosquito.
And here I thought you were going for a Breaking Bad reference

.
Well that�s actually a jock strap, not tighty-whiteys. But great! I like Breaking Bad.
Was the tracking shot at the end of episode four your idea or did director Cary Jo Fukunaga come up with that?
Cary. But that scene was written as real time. It�s 12 pages of nothing but action. We say: �We�re now moving into real time action here.� This absurd raid on a stash house turns into Assault On Precinct 13, and then everything goes to hell. Cary wanted to try it as a tracking shot. And part of the reason it was an action scene was that I wanted to release all the coiled tension that had been building over the last three episodes, and to have that big action scene to counter our big anti-action scene in episode five. Cary thought this would work great as a single take and heighten the catharsis of sudden action.
There�s been much discussion, pro and con, about Cohle and Hart as examples of TV�s fixation with �anti-heroes� and hideous men. Will True Detective bring us to a final judgment on these archetypes?
By the end, both will be stripped of many illusions. Yet while they may embody traits of the anti-heroes we�re used to seeing lately, they�re also melded with a very classic John Wayne type of hero. What�s being deconstructed here, if anything, are archetypes of post-war masculinity. If you look at their swagger and behavior under fire, they are fixated on articulating a specific kind of stoic or Orwell-like masculinity that they�ve picked up from somewhere else. For each man, the final confrontation is the realization that they don�t work. For me, two of the most touching moments in the series come in episode 7, when Marty asks Maggie what she talked to the cops about, and he thanks her for raising their daughters well; and when Cohle and Hart each describe their lives since the end of their partnership, and it�s clear that each of them are alone and living very isolated half lives. Hart put a TV dinner and a beer down on a TV tray and watches a cowboy movie, Cohle takes the trash out at the end of the day after working at the bar. If you consider that both of those revelations are the sad end results of the truths that neither man would face about themselves, to me, that�s the total vision, that�s what we�re saying these men, and heroes and anti-heroes.
Throughout True Detective, the characters make references to fathers who fought in wars, and specifically, Vietnam. Many critics (including myself) have speculated about the influence of Vietnam War narratives � historical and fictional � on the story and the characters. Valid?
That Vietnam stuff you spotted which is very real. I don�t know if it was this way for you, but especially when I grew up, for boys of my generation, Vietnam lived in our imagination, at least in some way, like how World War II lived in the baby boomer imagination. We knew something bad happened; it broke the country; people weren�t the same afterwards; and now there�s a bunch of movies and TV shows about it. And so you have Cohle and Hart, who never went to war, but were both raised by men who went to war, and so that narrative lives in them, for better and worse.
You are reminding me how our war stories influence depictions of heroic character in fiction. In his bogus chronicle of the attack on Ledoux�s compound (which they portray as a full-scale military engagement), Cohle ironically compares Hart to Captain America, a World War II-era hero, who embodied a earnest, selfless, patriotic kind of heroic character from midcentury America �
They were fighting pure evil. Nothing to say, nothing to question, you�re fighting pure evil.
But after Vietnam, our pulp-pop heroes changed. You don�t see too many Captain Americas of certain moral authority.
They gained depth. They gained depth from having their contradictions revealed. Often, what allows someone to behave heroically in dire circumstances is unpalatable in day-to-day life.
In the sixth episode, Maggie � betrayed anew by philandering Marty � ended her marriage and destroyed the Hart-Cohle partnership by seducing Cohle. It was her only significant action in the show, which, in general, has lacked for fully realized female characters. Have you heard the criticism that the show lacks fully realized female characters? How did you approach writing them?
The dilemma with the females in the script is that this is an extremely tight point-of-view show. You�re either in Hart�s point of view or Cohle�s point of view. Any character that is not them runs the risk of being peripheral. There were more scenes with both Maggie and Laurie, Rust�s girlfriend, but because we only had 56 minutes to tell a story, we had to cut. But Maggie, for me, is the most emotionally intelligent person in the show. I think of her as an anchor and reality for each man. I blame Hart for her cumulative action more than her. Cohle and Hart have a nice conversation about that in episode eight. It�s their last car ride talk.
And in episode 7, the judgment of Marty for his failings is expressed via the revelation that Maggie and his daughters flourished after cutting Marty out of their lives.
Clearly they did. We had a scene where you glimpsed Maggie�s new husband but it was cut. They�re all much healthier. That�s what Hart is thanking her for in 7. Thank YOU for doing everything.
Has HBO ordered a second season?
They want to do season 2. I just have to give them scripts and see if they like them! It would be great if we could use some of the same actors, like a reparatory company. It would be different characters, different setting. That�s part of the fun of the anthology.
Finally: Is �Big Hug Mug

� an anagram for �Humbug Gig�? And is �Rust Cohle� an anagram for� well, something?
Rust Cohle is not an anagram for anything that I know of. As for Big Hug Mug, nobody knew that was an anagram for Humbug Gig.
Damn! Now you�re stripping away our illusions!
I know! See, I don�t want to destroy that stuff by copping to it. I�m really grateful it�s had that effect on people.



*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

for a while now. the article gives some good background info though, especially about the real life satan worshiping and child sacrifices in louisiana. lawnmower man might not be the ringleader, im sure there is a group of old rich white guys pulling the strings, but Errol is their collector and enforcer. plus in a interview the director mentions that in the 3rd act a 1963 ford truck becomes important, which is what Errol drives and its actually the directors own personal truck.

in the preview for the next ep they quickly show a guy in a mask and i think its him. he is a big guy with a scar on his face and he has access to the closed down schools.

he's that picture

>for a while now. the article gives some good background info
>though, especially about the real life satan worshiping and
>child sacrifices in louisiana. lawnmower man might not be the
>ringleader, im sure there is a group of old rich white guys
>pulling the strings, but Errol is their collector and
>enforcer. plus in a interview the director mentions that in
>the 3rd act a 1963 ford truck becomes important, which is what
>Errol drives and its actually the directors own personal
>truck.
>
>in the preview for the next ep they quickly show a guy in a
>mask and i think its him. he is a big guy with a scar on his
>face and he has access to the closed down schools.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

i think it's going to play out just like it's been laid out for 6 episodes. i seriously doubt there's going to be some totally unexpected surprise and that all the events we've been witnessing are red herrings. this isn't the killing. it's much better than that.

"I hope they are all surprised, but feel in hindsight that that the outcome was inevitable."

Hopefully that means no midair plane collisions.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

So the father in law, was talking about the good ole days, and I noticed his nice rose bush when he and Marty were talking...


...I start to think what about the significance of roses?

The coroner mentions that aside from the antlers there is a crown of rose thorns.

Maybe its pointing to Marty or the Stepfather or maybe Marty is involved and is taking over where step pops left off. More than likely its the school gardner that worked for Tuttle.

Has anyone observed the roses throughout the show.


Marty's wallpaper...
His wife wore two different rose dresses once at the double date and another when she banged Rust...
Most of the girls wear rose or flowered clothing...the missing girl in the pic, Marty's daughters at different points...the nurse at the mental hospital in 2002...


Probably a send off but you never know in these type of shows.


The heavy gloved hand part of the autopsy stuck out because Marty has those beat down gloves and it could be just that simple.




In the first episode, didn't the wife allude to Marty being absent for a couple days?

A little bit of a brake down so far on the characters, cases, questions and theories.

http://www.wekeeptheotherbadmenfromthedoor.com/

Some of the prints for sale.

http://www.wekeeptheotherbadmenfromthedoor.com/images/print14.jpg

http://www.wekeeptheotherbadmenfromthedoor.com/images/print13.jpg

http://www.wekeeptheotherbadmenfromthedoor.com/images/print9.jpg

http://www.wekeeptheotherbadmenfromthedoor.com/images/print11.jpg

from reddit

http://ssexpectations.tumblr.com/post/78326502649/are-we-masters-of-our-future-or-are-we-doomed-to

lol

I realized I didn't care what kind of justice is served.

Yeah, the obvious point I was ready for any kind of justice would be the video that Marty had to watch, but honestly at that point I was still holding on to some kind of sense that all the people would be brought down, in that big satisfying perp walk, with red and white flashers in the background framing a cuffed, cowered guilty person with the detectives walking proudly erect behind. It would be a lot of people, there would be a courthouse, lots of assets and wealth would be montaged into going down the drain shortly thereafter.

But that's not at all what this story is about. It's about the families that have ruled over time immemorial, and I realized having Tuttle killed by his compatriots for allowing himself to be exposed wasn't satisfying. Maybe that was the point where it turned, the point where I realized I wouldn't be moved one way or another if Cohle had killed Tuttle. Tuttle deserved to die. It was a good outcome regardless of how it came about. I wouldn't think anything different about Cohle -- if anything, more positively -- if he made it come to pass.

Yet it's not satisfying just to know Tuttle is dead. It's good that he's gone, but it was just his friends doing to insure their liabilities didn't go any further. That's not justice. That's merely one end to a life otherwise well lived.

So maybe it was just Cohle's suggestion of the battery and jumper cables, because I was excited for the detectives to force the good ol' boy to tell the truth. Lying Sheriff? Cohle and Hart are justified in whatever it takes to get the truth from him. But it wasn't just that a hint of torture that got my bloodlust up, my eagerness for the Sheriff's was definitely slipped in somewhere before...

It doesn't matter how this show ends, as long as the bad guys die. The bad guys don't need to die slowly, they just need to cease to exist. It doesn't matter if the authorities recognize their crimes or not, Cohle just needs to find the center of the spiral. That's all I want at this point -- an end to the wickedness.

Every time I think I know where this show will lead me...

Big Errol will go down and probably take Cohle and/or Hart with him. He's just a cog in the wheel though. The real power brokers will still be out there operating in the shadows, continuing the rituals. Time is a flat circle.

Cohle identifies the Green Eared Spaghetti Monster/Scarred Man as the prime suspect. Jimmy Ledoux confirms Reggie & Dewall were linked to the scarred man. The old lady who worked for Tuttle describes the scarred man, his relation to Tuttle and even says his last name was Childress.

If they're smart they recognize that the sheriff in Erath at the time of Marie Fontenot's disappearance who purposefully bundled the case had the last name Childress. If Cohle is really on point he'll remember one of the guard's on duty when Guy Leonard Francis committed "suicide" had the last name Childress. Even if they forget about these two other two Childress', they've got an ID on their guy so now they should research Childress' in the area, Childress' with facial scars, etc. until they find a location on Errol Childress.

But instead they for some reason drop that side of the case right when they make a breakthrough and focus on Steve Geraci, a deputy at the time of Fontenot's disappearance so they can find out what really happened. But they already know what happened, they've got footage. Why not just do the final step in their investigation and get a location on Childress?

Steve will probably give up some valuable information during the torture, but then what happens? If they don't kill him he goes to his higher ups and lets them know these two former detectives are about to break the case.

It just seems unrealistic to me that they'd finally get a name of their prime suspect and then leave that and choose to kidnap a sheriff to find out more about Fontenot.


By the way I wish they had casted somebody else as Errol Childress. As soon as I saw that lawnmower was George Remus from Boardwalk Empire I knew he was too big to have such a small scene. They should have went with an unknown like they did with Reggie Ledoux.

I'm still captivated by this series of course. Can't wait for the finale.

If you notice, the only time Hart gets really upset is when the crime deals with children. Hell, he quit his job because of it.

If Cohle doesn't kill the Sheriff, Hart will.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>If Cohle doesn't kill the Sheriff, Hart will.
>

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

they wont kill him since he is not directly involved or a part of the cult.

>
>By the way I wish they had casted somebody else as Errol
>Childress. As soon as I saw that lawnmower was George Remus
>from Boardwalk Empire I knew he was too big to have such a
>small scene. They should have went with an unknown like they
>did with Reggie Ledoux.
>

would you have preferred if they had cast this guy as Errol? lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XaYzXvSR3Js

I'm sure the guy playing Errol will give a good performance and he'll still be a scary ass dude for the finale. I'm just saying from the moment I saw him I knew he'd be a major character, rather than a random stranger as the show would have us believe.

Reggie Ledoux was casted perfectly. The actor is a tall, psycho looking dude who fit the bill for what we expected Ledoux to look like. Maybe he would have been a better Errol, but I'll hold my criticisms until the end of the season.

but its an early version of the script. someone on reddit found this and thats where they figured out his last name since imdb never listed one for him. the first part is dialogue from the end of episode 7 but the rest is stuff from episode 8 that we obviously havent heard before. i think its his sister or cousin in the second half he is talking to and supposedly he is fucking her in the following scene.

Anyone else feel a slight sigh of relief that Martys daughter wasnt on that tape?

Hart's daughter on the tape and when it wasn't it was like damn man. Get it together lol.

that's terrible tho.

when cohle handed him the flask, i just knew it was going to be his kid. then i just said o, when it turned out it wasnt. i feel terrible about it.

now that we know this is the massive evil shitshow that has been going on for years stretching throughout the whole state involving many people it does make me believe again that somehow Marty's daughter was exposed to these guys in some way...

I'm not sure they will go that route, but the pictures and the barbie doll gangbang can't be written off as just a kid acting out... that one picture she specifically drew a guy either wearing a mask or having scars... I need an answer, Nic!

Maybe it's not meant to be solved but to drive us the viewers crazy looking for answers. The show is turning us into Cohle.

One thing my wife picked up on quickly was that HBO said "Season Finale" and not "Series Finale."

Could season 2 be Detectives Gilbrough and Papania looking for answers on the most recent killing with Cohle and Hart being on the fringes of the story?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Im thinking there is nothing to that.

The writer, Nic Pizzolato (sp?) has said his favorite crime novel ever is called Red Herring (i forget the author).

thus, you can imagine that he threw Red Herrings in all over the place to mess w/ viewers heads.

Nick has already stated that the next season will be a different story, setting, and different characters but he hopes he can have the same cast because that would be cool.

I just think marty is not there for child abuse cases.

I do think what's going on with his daughter hasn't something to do with his being a fucked up husband and father.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

dunno his reactions seemed off until he saw the tape
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

He hasn't seen a guy who banged his wife for 10 years and all of a sudden he's in a storage unit listening to a Crazy Cohle spout off about his conspiracy theory. It took something drastic to convince him of Rust's suspicions.

in the first place was cause Marty was skeptical of all Cohle's theories while they were still working together near the end there, while discussing the matters in the Major's office. He said all the shit about cover-ups/conspiracies and Marty was more or less like "that was gibberish" which started the ball rolling.

In other words, since the very beginning of Cohle's suspicions, Marty wasn't buying into it, so his reactions were to be expected and reasonable.

Thus the, "What you packing?" comment.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You shouldn't have that" in regards to the tape. the way he said it...was more like a passive way to say give it to me so he could get rid of it...so he could help with the cover up? i don't know. And really its not that no one should have that tape...no one shouldn't be abusing those kids.

for all we know they setting up Cohle on that boat to end up dead because he got too close.

I mean...he doesn't have a relationship with his daughters....why is that?

Marty knows that Fuck & Suck suspect Rust. If they get a warrant and search the unit, that's game over for Cohle.

As the police's lead suspect, him having that tape ain't a good look.

my first thought was like hmm....but i can't call it either way.

>my first thought was like hmm....but i can't call it either
>way.

which means great acting and directing lol

cant wait til next week
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

i was hooting and laughing during a lot of last night's episode.
in just 7 episodes they've managed to give us marty and rust's stories in a such a way that i was legit excited for them to be back together working the case in 2012

rust dressed like a ninja all up and through tuttle's houses? i was rolling laughing. to paraphrase, he was fully aware he might be out of his mind.

i can't wait to see how this wraps up and i can't wait to watch it over and over again

>rust dressed like a ninja all up and through tuttle's houses?
>i was rolling laughing. to paraphrase, he was fully aware he
>might be out of his mind.


i cracked up

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Cannot wait for this finale

Question: Back in episode 3, when they first show Errol the Lawnmower Man, is he also telling Cohle about his family history when Martin interrupts him? I should remember because I watched the episode last week, but can't.

Also, the two detectives are looking for Clarke Peters'/Lester Freamon's/Big Chief's church, when they run into Errol, right?

i couldn't tell though.

nm

is the burned down church.
Ahhh...yes.
interesting.

>Question: Back in episode 3, when they first show Errol the
>Lawnmower Man, is he also telling Cohle about his family
>history when Martin interrupts him?

When Cohle runs up on him its basic things about the parish and the church. Cohle switches gears and starts to ask him personal questions that he starts to answer right when Marty starts to angrily press on the car horn because someone called in a Ledoux tip.

>When Cohle runs up on him its basic things about the parish
>and the church. Cohle switches gears and starts to ask him
>personal questions that he starts to answer right when Marty
>starts to angrily press on the car horn because someone called
>in a Ledoux tip.

This is kind of interesting in light of Martin's quote from episode 5: �You know the detective�s curse? The solution was right under my nose, but I was paying attention to the wrong clues?�

And then Gilbough and Papania bolt while Errol is telling them about his family.

He tells him about how the school got shut down after Hurricane Andrew. Cohle asks Errol the lawnmower man if he worked there, Errol says, "no sir I work for the parish, cover several properties". Cohle asks if he knows anybody that went to the school or worked there back then, Errol replies, "no sir, i only been coming here the last few months. parish added it to my work order". Marty honks, Cohle thanks Errol and walks off.

It is a bit surprising that Cohle didn't notice the scars on Errol's face, considering he knew by then he was looking for a scarred man.

>It is a bit surprising that Cohle didn't notice the scars on
>Errol's face, considering he knew by then he was looking for a
>scarred man.

Are we sure they knew they were looking for a man with a scarred face at that point tho? Cause I feel like if they did they wouldn't have been so dead set on LeDeux as the suspect as he had no scars.

Anyway I'd be disappointed if that was a writing oversight, as those scars are blatantly obvious if you're standing next to the guy, though obviously they played the little camera trick on the viewer the first time around. Cohle should have noticed them and would have in person, were they aware that they were looking for a scarred face man at that time. I'll have to go back and check it out.

The people at the revival told them that they saw Dora with a tall man with scars on his face.

I can only assume Cohle didn't notice it because of the beard. Plus, as I said above, he couldn't tell how tall he was because he was sitting on the lawn mower the entire time.

>I can only assume Cohle didn't notice it because of the beard.
>Plus, as I said above, he couldn't tell how tall he was
>because he was sitting on the lawn mower the entire time.

^^^Yes

http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/reddit.png

http://i.imgur.com/xdgzYWv.png

>I can only assume Cohle didn't notice it because of the beard.

That thing was spotty as fuck and wouldn't have covered up those types of scars. Nothing could besides a full mask.

It was there that one of the churchgoers said she saw Dora Lange with a tall scarred man. I'm pretty sure that was the first mention of a scarred man. Later when they're at a Pho place Marty decides to put an APB out for a tall, scarred man.

Then they find the Rianne Olivier case, meet up with her grandfather, go to check out her school where Rust meets Errol (scarred man), and then get a break on Ledoux's identity.

I actually didn't recognize Errol's scars at first in episode 3. It just seemed like spotty facial hair to me. Here's a pic: http://imgur.com/ILJsZHq I mean, the way the scars were described, I wouldn't necessarily look twice at this guy. Still for Cohle to be talking to a guy at a potential crime scene with scars and not notice it is a little surprising, but I guess plausible.

imo, the people at the revival tent did see dora leave with reggie, aka, tall man. remember, reggie knew about dora from charlie and was the boyfriend of reianne the 2nd victim they find. reggie was used by the cult to help find women and to also provide the drugs. errol the lawnmower man is the scarred man that the girl in the mental hospital is talking about when she says his face, his face! errol is the main one who does the torture and creates the "art" out of the bodies.

so tall man and scarred face man are two different people.


and as far as rust realizing who he was talking to in episode 3, at that time they were looking for people who had a connection to dora or reianne, a connection to the revival church, and they were also pulling in guys who fit the tall man/scars description who had criminal records. we never even find out lawnmower mans name in this scene so he is just some random stranger they know nothing about, and it becomes a common theme in the show to overlook things right under your nose. when rust questions him, if errol had told rust that he went to school there or knew people at the school rust would have been more suspicious, but errol tells him that he works for the parish and that he just started cutting grass at that school a couple months prior. so errol would have had no connection or knowledge of dora. also at this time rust and marty do not know about the tuttle/parish connection. also, i think the school is a couple hours away from the murder scene. they stop by the school after talking with reiannes grandfather who tells them her boyfriend was reggie ledoux. so errol wasnt even on their radar at the time, and even going into episode 8 they still dont know that errol has anything to do with this at all.

I do realize that it was very early in the investigation so they weren't really locked in yet on who they were looking for. And the person they *were* looking for, LeDeux, is the reason Cohle didn't get the read you'd expect him to get in a situation like that cause Marty was honking the horn like a mad man about the LeDeux tip. So I get that.

I'm still surprised that Cohle would've let himself miss something like that but again, the fact that it was early on may have had him thinking more about the big picture tips rather than the specific tips like "oh dood had scars on his face".

I plan to watch again once it's all over to see how I see it then.


>and as far as rust realizing who he was talking to in episode
>3, at that time they were looking for people who had a
>connection to dora or reianne, a connection to the revival
>church, and they were also pulling in guys who fit the tall
>man/scars description who had criminal records. we never even
>find out lawnmower mans name in this scene so he is just some
>random stranger they know nothing about, and it becomes a
>common theme in the show to overlook things right under your
>nose. when rust questions him, if errol had told rust that he
>went to school there or knew people at the school rust would
>have been more suspicious, but errol tells him that he works
>for the parish and that he just started cutting grass at that
>school a couple months prior. so errol would have had no
>connection or knowledge of dora. also at this time rust and
>marty do not know about the tuttle/parish connection. also, i
>think the school is a couple hours away from the murder scene.
>they stop by the school after talking with reiannes
>grandfather who tells them her boyfriend was reggie ledoux. so
>errol wasnt even on their radar at the time, and even going
>into episode 8 they still dont know that errol has anything to
>do with this at all.

n/m

man in the first scene we saw him. I mean the theme has been he doesn't pay attention to detail and we are more second guessing the idea that Cohle would overlook or not see that.

From a storytelling perspective, I don't think it added anything to have Marty sit in the car and Cohle talking to the man. Should have been switched.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

That would have made a lot more sense from a storytelling standpoint. But maybe in the last episode it'll be explained why Cohle missed it the first time around, who knows.

But yea - I'm with you.

The only reason they were talking to the Lawnmower man in the first place is because Cohle thought the Marie Fontenot and the Dora Lange case were connected. Martin spent a good chunk of the episode telling the 2012 detectives how he let Cohle do the questioning because he had a feel for it and extolled his skills as a "box man."

And mainly it works is because Martin is the reason that Cohle doesn't piece the connection together. Martin calls Cohle away by honking the horn as soon as he gets the information on the connection between LeDoux and Dora Lange. Cohle talks to the guy just a little longer (all he needs is two minutes, as he explains to the 2012 detectives), and he "solves" the case. Martin's oblivious to what going on in front of him because he's fixated on a whole other idea.

Well done.

Cohle talks to the guy just a little longer (all he needs is two minutes, as he explains to the 2012 detectives), and he "solves" the case.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

...they show Cohle talking to Gilbough and Papiana about his interrogation technique; it's set-up by Martin talking about how good of a box man Cohle is and Cohle reducing the scarred ex-con schlub to tears and ready to sign a confession even though he hadn't done anything. Cohle tells the two that in reality, all he needs is two minutes to figure out if someone did it or not.

So, when they find Errol, Cohle talks to him for **maybe** 90 seconds before Martin gets the report and starts honking the horn. He talks to Errol just a little longer, he likely notices the scars underneath his beard. Or he gets him to stand up, in which case he'd see how tall he is, and sees he has a match for the scarred giant that they're looking for. But Marty interrupts them, and Cohle never sees him again.

>Cohle talks to him for **maybe** 90 seconds before Martin gets the report and starts honking the horn.

^^This^^ exactly.

rust tells the detectives in 2012 that he can tell within the first few minutes of being in the box with someone if they are guilty or not. but i think the actual quote from cohle is 10 minutes, not 2 minutes. i'll have to watch again.

id heard people mention this before as a reason that rust should have got a read on him, but in that scene rust and errol are not talking in "the box" they are outside in a school yard. totally different dynamic. rust also says something about being able to see the guilt in someones eyes, because everyone wears their hurt in their haunt. but in the scene with lawnmower man rust never even looks him in the eyes, he his looking all around at the school.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I could've sworn it was 2 minutes but I'm not 100% on that I suppose. And I can't find anything online.

I meant to say something yesterday but didn't want to pause the show.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>I meant to say something yesterday but didn't want to pause
>the show.

I also watched the episode before I wrote that, and heard definitely heard "two", not "ten."

http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=true-detective-2013&episode=s01e03

...to size someone up. And if Martin hadn't interrupted Cohle while he was talking to the Lawnmower Man, he could have properly sized him up.

listening to it i can hear why some people would hear two, because Rust is mumbling, but it sounds more like ten to me.

script says ten
captions say ten
Rust says ten

http://imgur.com/jOA2JqS

lol

>listening to it i can hear why some people would hear two,
>because Rust is mumbling, but it sounds more like ten to me.
>
>script says ten
>captions say ten
>Rust says ten
>
>http://imgur.com/jOA2JqS

>Also, the two detectives are looking for Clarke Peters'/Lester
>Freamon's/Big Chief's church, when they run into Errol,
>right?

..magnanimous


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PORrGrQrFtk

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck....

Regarding the daughter.


So when she drew pictures, on the last page there was a character with a beard and weird lips...

...could she have been drawing from memory?

Was that possibly the Errol dude or the tall man?


What is up with her portrait in the last episode. When Marty was talking to his ex wife they show pictures on the mantle and one is with the oldest daughter and her painting with black stars all on it.

>What is up with her portrait in the last episode. When Marty
>was talking to his ex wife they show pictures on the mantle
>and one is with the oldest daughter and her painting with
>black stars all on it.


Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies,
But stranger still is

Lost Carcosa.

>So when she drew pictures, on the last page there was a
>character with a beard and weird lips...
>
>...could she have been drawing from memory?

I imagine so. There's still some connection with the daughter and this case: the scene she sets up with her dolls, her telling her sister about the women who "don't have any mommies or daddies" and "wear crowns." Her and her sister getting into a fight over who gets to wear the tiara/crown, resulting in her throwing it into the tree in front of the house.

If I had to guess, I think Martin's father-in-law is somehow involved with the Tuttle's society, or Martin's daughters went to one of the Tuttle Charter School's, or both.

>Was that possibly the Errol dude or the tall man?

Errol and the Tall Man are the same person. He's the "scarred giant".

>
>Errol and the Tall Man are the same person. He's the "scarred
>giant".

i still say they are two different people. reggie is the one with a connection to dora and i cant imagine errol being at the church and people only focusing on his height. reggie was 6'7 which would stand out as tall by everyone who sees him. errol, not so much. only distinguishing feature about errol is his scars.

Erroll is the scarred man.

remember, the girl they rescued? she said the man w/ the scars was the worst...the man w/ the scars is not Ledoux.

just my two cents.

>Erroll is the scarred man.
>
>remember, the girl they rescued? she said the man w/ the scars
>was the worst...the man w/ the scars is not Ledoux.

I'm pretty sure she says "Giant with the scars." I may be wrong tho, gotta re-watch.

Plus the people at the revival said Lange was a tall man with scar on his face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvkkcr08UOY

its a little tough to follow what she says bcuz she is not talking in complete sentences, but rust starts off by asking her if there were more than just the 2 ledoux's, if there was anyone else with them.

she says, "the man with the scars was the worst"

this of course implies that its at least 2 people which we already know, but in context with what rust asks her makes it sound like there may have been a third man.

she then says, "the giant...he made me watch what he did to billy."

to me, and i could def be wrong, that sounds like she is saying the giant made her watch what the man with the scars was doing to billy. not to get too graphic, but it would be tough for errol to be raping/torturing/whatever to billy and making kelly watch at the same time. i mean, obviously he could if he set it up first, but it makes more sense that someone else was in there helping him.

the confusing part is what rust says to her next because he lumps the two together and says, "the scars on the giant, were they on his face?" and then she starts screaming his face, his face.

They said Lange was with a tall man with scars on his face.

I don't think ultimately it makes that much of a difference, but the impressive it really seemed like they were talking about one person.

Read some of the comments. The similarities to True Detective are kind of mind blowing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_pJ8oiFeGs

Let's see...

Pedophile
Matty Mac mowing the lawn
Red Truck
Dorothy Lang (Dora Lang)

...so many similarities...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/03/05/true_detective_yellow_king_theory_video_compelling_new_evidence_was_right.html

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

Nothing personal, of course. I just didn't laugh once.

and drank about 10 cups of coffee and half a pack of cigarettes. my mind ain't right and I gotta go tend bar. bout to have my Rust face on.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

what kind of bar is it?

This one is fittin to be 700+ when its all said and done

I'm not sure why (other than one of those swipes above mentions it as a theory), but there are some interesting parallels between the two's actions and lives and it's remained unexplained why Marty's daughter is so aware of all the things involved in the cult's rituals even if she doesn't seem that way. Rust's seeing his daughter on the side of the road and asking Marty if he believes in ghosts is also one of the few things that hasn't been repeated through the rest of the episodes.


Also, just some errant observations from episode 1:

Both specifically use the phrase "I'm not a maniac".
When Rust first breaks open the case at that bar with the prostitutes, Marty eagerly lets him leave promising to file the paperwork.
The first time we meet Marty's wife she's in bed alone, and their first conversation is about Marty not sleeping in their bed because of another woman (Dora Lange).
Freamon might be related to the older woman who worked for Tuttle.
Rust's "appreciate a little hustle" on the beer makes way more sense knowing that's inadmissible now.
"Are we going to talk the whole case through or just the end?" as he sets the 6-pack down makes me curious - four horsemen, martyrs in existential confusion and a bad moon on the rise are the six seals of the apocalypse. By the end of the interview he's built five can-men.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

all of those herrings or signs of what may be involved are just going to be that--signs

Its not going to be a complete denoument of all pieces explained.

The daughter issue was just to explain how far reaching and part of the community culture embraces or is part of the carcosa cult bullshit..like almost a way of life underneath the facade of normalcy. In fact, Marty Marls daughter was probably told and shnown stuff from another classmate who was part of the cult way back then, not that she herself was involved or abused.

I think thats what the writer was getting at. That the undercurrent of evil etc that is ages old and tradition is there as a part of their life/environment, but the true story is just about these small amount of main characters and their lives in it and detecting it etc. Basically a story about three people and their character arcs and backard arcs stories. It would be some bs steeze to have everyone revealed to be part of this a knowingly but quietly like on that (SOILER ALERT BELOW.....)



Simon Peg/N Frost flick Hot Fuzz.

>I'm not sure why (other than one of those swipes above
>mentions it as a theory), but there are some interesting
>parallels between the two's actions and lives and it's
>remained unexplained why Marty's daughter is so aware of all
>the things involved in the cult's rituals even if she doesn't
>seem that way. Rust's seeing his daughter on the side of the
>road and asking Marty if he believes in ghosts is also one of
>the few things that hasn't been repeated through the rest of
>the episodes.
>
>
>Also, just some errant observations from episode 1:
>
>Both specifically use the phrase "I'm not a maniac".
>When Rust first breaks open the case at that bar with the
>prostitutes, Marty eagerly lets him leave promising to file
>the paperwork.
>The first time we meet Marty's wife she's in bed alone, and
>their first conversation is about Marty not sleeping in their
>bed because of another woman (Dora Lange).
>Freamon might be related to the older woman who worked for
>Tuttle.
>Rust's "appreciate a little hustle" on the beer makes way more
>sense knowing that's inadmissible now.
>"Are we going to talk the whole case through or just the end?"
>as he sets the 6-pack down makes me curious - four horsemen,
>martyrs in existential confusion and a bad moon on the rise
>are the six seals of the apocalypse. By the end of the
>interview he's built five can-men.
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~
>"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
>http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
>Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I'm still curious, though, as to why Rust mowed up Marty's lawn back in '95.

i'm gonna disagree. i think she was abused. she clearly acted out sexually (a sign of sexual abuse in many cases or early sexual encounters). she was very close to Hart (the daughters seemed more into him than the mom) then that ceased. Are we to believe him smacking her was the demise of their relationship? Not only does he not talk to the mother (we know why) but not the daughters until that day he pops up at the house. he obviously checks in with the mom about his kids but he doesn't talk to either of them? odd.

she said she did it because the kids at school liked it...even if someone told her about sex, and abuse, she was way too accurate in her drawings and the toys.

i think she was exposed. she even had drawings of the circular mark on her wall. I wish we could see her current paintings. Hart asked if she was still doing some type of paintings and i wish i could remember what he said but wasn't there a reference to black stars in this part? Audrey painted a picture of a girl with black stars as eyes.
whether we find that out or not, who knows.

Funny

This is a big part of the story, for me. I live in New Orleans, and in Louisiana my whole life. It captures the feel of dread, materialized as corruption or superstition.

she is apparently well adjusted now when taking her meds and has a boyfriend that takes good care of her. i think a more reasonable explanation to the way she was acting was that she had some kind of untreated mental illness like bipolar when she was a kid. i just dont see how she could be involved in the case at this point. the younger one goes to college or does volunteer work in chicago or something so i doubt she is involved in the case in 2012 either.

a lot has been made about the scene with the dolls but unless they did some horrible editing i think its just something marty sees in his head because of the stress of the case and the argument he had just had with maggie.

if you look back at the scene as he comes to the girls door, the younger daughter has the bald 'rapey' doll in her hands and the doll has its legs straight. she continues to hold him as she starts to get up. the camera cuts for a sec, then we see the younger daughter making a motion like she is throwing the doll in the opposite direction. as the girls walk out of the room marty looks and appears to see the dolls staged in a gang rape. the bald doll is bent over the girl looking like he is taking his pants off. in the 2 seconds it takes the girls to get up as the camera cuts away i highly doubt the younger girl posed the doll like that. plus the dolls that we see staged look much smaller than the one she was holding to begin with. i doubt there were 2 sets of dolls, with both sets having a bald 'rapey' looking one wearing a white shirt and black pants.

but the most obvious tell is that the episode is called "seeing things"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF2VMyQ6i-8

This isn't a narrative red herring, it's part of the Jungian swamp. It shows how the mossy Cthonic tendrils of evil reach out and permeate and spoil everything. The looming, banal titans of money and privilege do the same: the neon cross; shipping boats looming almost overhead; and the refineries, at the center of the seepage, reaching upward like inverted tendrils of moss.

The girls inhabit a mantle, through make-believe crown, just as the gnarled crowns of the Yellow King. One child(ress) is prodigal. And the fathers are scarred and absent. Like Huey Long said, every man a King.

>This isn't a narrative red herring, it's part of the Jungian
>swamp. It shows how the mossy Cthonic tendrils of evil reach
>out and permeate and spoil everything. The looming, banal
>titans of money and privilege do the same: the neon cross;
>shipping boats looming almost overhead; and the refineries, at
>the center of the seepage, reaching upward like inverted
>tendrils of moss.
>
>The girls inhabit a mantle, through make-believe crown, just
>as the gnarled crowns of the Yellow King. One child(ress) is
>prodigal. And the fathers are scarred and absent. Like Huey
>Long said, every man a King.

LMAO. I probably unintentionally wrote it in Cohles voice too. Seepage.

hell naw shawty

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I like the idea that she got it from other girls who were actually victims. I think a complete red herring is kind of a mean trick to play on the audience.

The funny thing about this story is as good as it has been there have been very few surprises.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

There is no absolute knowledge and anyone who claims it � whether a scientist, a politician or a religious believer � opens the door to

>The funny thing about this story is as good as it has been
>there have been very few surprises.

>The funny thing about this story is as good as it has been
>there have been very few surprises.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/true-dectective-finale-season-1-nic-pizzolatto?bftw

The �True Detective� Creator Debunks Your Craziest Theories

As Sunday�s finale looms, Nic Pizzolatto discusses the first season�s arc, crazy fan theories, misogyny, female nudity on the show, and Season 2. posted on March 6, 2014 at 10:00am EST
Kate Aurthur BuzzFeed Staff


Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson. HBO/Lacey Terrell

HBO�s True Detective was always going to be a big deal because of the Matthew McConaughey/Woody Harrelson of it all � but it�s safe to say that viewers� obsessive behavior around the show has come in at the high end of expectations. Each week, creator Nic Pizzolatto�s grim, literary time-jumping crime story � in which McConaughey plays the haunted, philosophizing Rust Cohle, and Harrelson plays the gone-to-seed good ol� boy Marty Hart (who is smarter than he looks, to his chagrin) � is picked through and expanded upon by a vigilant audience of 11 million. And yes, it�s also possible to enjoy True Detective even if you have no idea who the Yellow King is, or whether time is indeed a flat circle. (Or not enjoy it: If one gift True Detective has given us, it�s the vibrant, fun conversations around the show�s excellence; its provocations have also birthed intelligent dissent.)

The eighth of Season 1�s eight episodes airs Sunday, and the story of Rust, Marty, and the serial murder case that has framed a 17-year period of their lives will conclude. And so will McConaughey�s and Harrelson�s tenures on the show; next season will reboot with another arc and another cast created by Pizzolatto. (Though True Detective hasn�t been officially renewed, as you will see below, it will be.)

This interview was conducted over email � Pizzolatto�s choice � and we discussed the season so far, as well as where Episode 7 left us (so stop reading now if you�re not caught up). We also talked about charges of misogyny against the show; pay-cable�s �clear mandate� (his words) to include nudity; satanic ritual abuse; whether the show will continue to have one director for all of the episodes, as it did this season with Cary Fukunaga; and where Season 2 might go.

Very might: Pizzolatto can get vague with the best of them. Except when he�s telling you that � for sure � neither Rust nor Marty will turn out to be the killer on Sunday night. So stop it with that.

Let�s begin with the ending of Episode 7, when we see Errol, who is, or had better be, the Spaghetti Monster. How did you build to that moment, and why did you decide to end the episode on that note?

Nic Pizzolatto: Going into the final episode, I wanted to end any audience theorizing that Cohle or Hart was the killer, and also provide a concrete face to the abstract evil they�re chasing. So, wild speculations aside, we showed the killer�s face in Episode 1. Though we know that as this �third man,� whose face was scarred by his father, Errol is himself a revenant of great historical evil. There�s enough fragmentary history in Episode 7 that, like Hemingway�s iceberg, what is obscured can be discerned by what is visible. We have further context and dimension to explore with the killer, but the true questions now are whether Cohle and Hart succeed, what they will find, and whether they�ll make it out alive.

Rust and Marty seem to have found focus in their messy lives by deciding that solving this case is the thing they need to do to find both professional and personal resolution. Did you always know that the show was going to come to that?

NP: The story was entirely planned around them reuniting to try and resolve this serial murderer case. I don�t really think either man sees it as a personal resolution, because neither one believes in resolution. I believe they recognize it as their duty, and as perhaps the only thing they�re good for. In this I think they are commendable, as they each could�ve walked away from the whole thing several times in the course of the series. That said, I think it�s clear that neither man is living much of a life, and I find it touching when Cohle asks about Marty�s life � that�s something �95 Cohle would never do. �95 Cohle says, �It�s none of my business .� But 2012 Cohle, there�s the sense that Marty�s his last buoy, the closest thing he has to someone who knows him. This is largely true for Hart as well. And Cohle makes clear to Marty that he wants to die and views this case as something he has to solve first, though it�s valid to interpret that perhaps a part of Cohle does not want to die, and latching onto this case again is a way for him to keep living. It�s relevant that �Angel of the Morning� is playing when they reunite.

Now I�m curious about �Angel of the Morning.� You chose it because of the song�s spirit of wistful resignation, or a particular lyric?

NP: Well, it�s a love song about unrequited devotion with a female singer, as though vocalizing the anima they�ve mutually repressed.

Would it be correct in assuming that they�re willing to die? Marty in particular seemed to be saying goodbye to Maggie in Episode 7.

NP: I think given the amorphous nature of the evil they�re pursuing, its historical roots in culture and government, they would have to be willing to die to fully pursue their absolute justice. And they each understand this.

HBO/Lacey Terrell

Did you imagine that there would be so much audience speculation that Rust or Marty was the murderer, or was that a frustrating surprise as the show has unfolded?

NP: It was a little surprising, but not frustrating at all, just part of the experience of having people connect to the show. The possibility is built into the story, as it has to be credible that the 2012 PD suspect Cohle. I just thought that such a revelation would be terrible, obvious writing. For me, the worst writing generally just �flips� things: this person�s really a traitor; it was all a dream; etc. Nothing is so ruinous as a forced �twist,� I think.

Let�s discuss satanic ritual abuse, which is the backdrop of the �95 sections (and is certainly mentioned a few times � the task force that looms over them, putting pressure on them to get the case solved). That was an intense, strange phenomenon of the �80s and �90s, and was largely debunked. But the show seems to be coming down on the side of satanic ritual abuse really existing!

NP: The case of Hosanna Church in Tangipahoa Parish certainly seems real enough. I was there through the satanism panic that started in the mid-�80s and then resurged in the �90s. So even as rural myth, it�s a part of the time and place. But this is a coastal Louisiana of-the-mind, as I knew it, a place which is no stranger to superstition and esoteric belief, where mysticism mingles with mainstream religion, where Voudon and Santeria are practiced along the bayous and a primitivism still maintains in many places. I grew up with adults who believed the Virgin Mary was appearing in Medjugorje, Yugoslavia. They held prayer meetings where they closed their eyes and claimed to see visions, and we were prepped for the end of the world throughout grade school. So the wild extremes of belief were always visible, and then to me it�s a short jump to a horror story. The ritual abuse in our show is the darkest side of belief, in a show where belief has been a steady underlying topic.

Did you grow up religious?

NP: I was raised in a heavily Catholic family. Early and consistent encounters with mysticism.

Have you read Remembering Satan by Lawrence Wright � which explored a problematic case of �recovered memories� and satanic rituals � and did it inform anything in True Detective?

NP: Never read it; the focus on mysticism and child abuse are both governing concerns of mine, and fit the place very well, based on my life experience.

Twin Peaks strikes me as the other vivid popular expression of ritualistic child sexual abuse � but in Twin Peaks, there was a supernatural element that put a veil over plain-old child rape and incest. I�m curious both about whether you watched Twin Peaks and thought about it at all here. And also what you�ve thought about all the internet chatter wanting True Detective to turn out to be a supernatural story despite showing no evidence through seven of eight episodes that it�s that at all.

NP: I watched and loved Twin Peaks when it was on, at least in that rich first arc, before Josie turned into a dresser drawer and everything went bonkers, though I wasn�t thinking about it at all. I don�t read internet chatter, but all I can offer is that to date there hasn�t been a single thing in our show that�s supernatural, so why would that suddenly manifest in the last episode? The show has a quality of mysticism, for sure, but nothing supernatural so far. I think there�s a lot of self-projection going on in certain cases; like the show has become a Rorschach test for a specific contingent of the audience in which they read their own obsessions into it. This is what it means to resonate with people, so I don�t mind it. The danger is that it�s myopic and unfairly reductive, like a literary theorist who only sees Marxism or Freudianism rather the totality of a work.

There are also those who will not be satisfied with any finale unless Rust Cohle steps out their TVs, into their living room, and shoots them in the foot as some kind of meta-statement on magick and mass entertainment. And, you know, the technology just isn�t there. That said, I wouldn�t totally rule out the appearance of special effects�

Michelle Monaghan as Maggie Hart. HBO/Michele K. Short

I saw you tweeted Willa Paskin�s Slate piece that praised the show and its portrayal of misogyny; Emily Nussbaum�s New Yorker review also looked at the show and its women, but was critical. You�ve said that True Detective�s view of women has been a result of focusing on two point-of-view characters who are men. Have you been listening to that thread of criticism? What do you think of it?

NP: Well, the show is plainly showing a vein of misogyny running through not just these men but their culture. To the idea that this is not on purpose, or that the females are one-dimensional, I�d say we�ll agree to disagree. If someone sees Maggie as merely some kind of fuming shrew, then that viewer is revealing their own prejudices, not the show�s. Given that neither of our leads has a healthy relationship with a woman, and given that we only see things in their POVs, that women are not given a full representation is correct for the story being told here.

This is a close, two-person point-of-view show, and the story is bound to those perspectives, with a few loose variations. In the structure of this telling, the other characters exist in relation to Cohle and Hart. However, if someone comes on screen for one exchange in the entire show, I believe they have dimensionality � the fact that their presence in the show exists only in relation to Cohle and Hart does not diminish their spark. Of the women Hart has affairs with, I wouldn�t expect them to be the most mature and stable of people, given his character and the difference in their ages. The gender criticism was expected, but it seems very knee-jerk in the total context of what we did here and what the show is supposed to be. It�s easy to use such a political concern as a blunt, reductive instrument to rob the material and performances of their nuances. But there was no way to tell this story, in this structure, without that being an easy mark for someone looking for something to criticize.

There�s also the issue of nudity, which has been very boob-y (and HBO-y). How did you decide what the sex scenes would look like?

NP: The staging was more or less there in the scripts, and then Cary and I worked together on the execution. But there is a clear mandate in pay-cable for a certain level of nudity. Now, you�re not going to get our two lead movie stars to go full-frontal, but we at least got Matthew�s butt in there. There�s not a great deal of nudity in the series at all, though, compared to other shows on pay-cable. I�d be happy with none. Seems to me if people want to see naked people doing it, there�s this thing called �the internet.�

The show sets up a world in which evil men conspire to do terrible things to women and children, and that less bad men are in charge of trying to stop them. (Or, as Rust would put it, the �world needs bad men � we keep the other bad men from the door.�) Seems accurate to me. Is that your worldview, or is that just the show and the characters?

NP: Well, that�s certainly the view of Cohle, but nothing in him represents my views on anything. I think True Detective is portraying a world where the weak (physically or economically) are lost, ground under by perfidious wheels that lie somewhere behind the visible, wheels powered by greed, perversity, and irrational belief systems, and these lost souls dwell on an exhausted frontier, a fractured coastline beleaguered by industrial pollution and detritus, slowly sinking into the Gulf of Mexico. There�s a sense here that the apocalypse already happened. And in places like this, where there�s little economy and inadequate education, women and children are the first to suffer, by and large. There�s a line in a Sherlock Holmes story where Holmes explains to Watson that the evils of the city pale in comparison to the horrors of the isolated countryside, where who knows what terrors exist in the lonely farmhouse, cut off from civilization and beholden to no oversight? I always sensed that.

Regarding bad men being necessary to stop the other bad men, that�s probably more true than I�d like it to be, but the point exists outside of gender: You need physically capable, courageous, and potentially violent people to deal with the violent, dangerous people.

You deleted a tweet in which you responded, obliquely, that Season 2 could be different in respect to women characters. What did you mean, why did you delete the tweet, and most of all, where do we stand on Season 2?

NP: I deleted the tweet because I didn�t want to be beholden to a promise and then change my mind. I�m writing Season 2 right now, but I don�t want to divulge any potentialities, because so much could change. I just never want to create from a place of critical placation � that�s a dead zone. So I don�t want, for instance, a gender-bias-critique to influence what I do.

Nic Pizzolatto. HBO/Michele K. Short

Let�s assume there�s a second season. Since you�ve said you don�t like serial killer stories, I wonder what other sort of crimes there are that can sustain an eight- or ten-episode anthology?

NP: Oh, all kinds of conspiracies suggest themselves. Especially if, like me, you�ve been reading about the last 40 years of Southern California government.

Forget it, Nic, it�s Chinatown! I assume you won�t say more than that, but please do feel free to, of course. How long did it take for this show to come together, and given its scale and that you�re the sole writer and the bar for casting is high, does it seem like something that could happen once a year?

NP: Man� I�m tempted to utter just one word, but I can�t. I gotta stay mum on the next season till it�s more concrete.

With this season, once I started writing in earnest, it took about three and a half months to get the scripts. Episode 1 was written in mid-2010, and 2 was written in mid-2011, but I rewrote them and all eight were done by early August 2012; then we moved into pre-production from September through most of January. Then shot a full six months. Then did post from July 2013 to January 2014.

It�s very possible to do it once a year; the main thing that slowed us down was having to wait to do all of post-production until after we�d wrapped. I�d like to get two or three scripts exactly where I want them, then start getting the gears rolling in earnest. Casting is its own issue. Who we cast and what their schedule is will likely determine at least some part of scheduling, and scheduling will determine at least some part of casting.

Do you imagine working with one director again, and plot aside, can you give us any hints about a changed aesthetic?

NP: We don�t have any plans to work with one director again. It would be impossible to do this yearly as we need to be able to do post while we�re still filming, like any other show. There�s some great guys I�ve consulted, and we�re all confident we can achieve the same consistency. Going forward, I want the show�s aesthetic to remain determinedly naturalistic, with room for silences and vastness, and an emphasis on landscape and culture. And I hope a story that presents new characters in a new place with authenticity and resonance and an authorial voice consistent with this season. Dominant colors will change. South Louisiana was green and burnished gold.

And finally what should viewers be thinking about going into Sunday�s finale?

NP: Anything they want. Binary systems, maybe.

"I think True Detective is portraying a world where the weak (physically or economically) are lost, ground under by perfidious wheels that lie somewhere behind the visible, wheels powered by greed, perversity, and irrational belief systems, and these lost souls dwell on an exhausted frontier, a fractured coastline beleaguered by industrial pollution and detritus, slowly sinking into the Gulf of Mexico. There�s a sense here that the apocalypse already happened. And in places like this, where there�s little economy and inadequate education, women and children are the first to suffer, by and large."

Really sums up the show well and reinforces what abstrak was saying above. Makes me want to read Pizzolatto's novel. Anyone read that and would recommend it?

Kinda sucks that he said he probably won't go with one director next season. I'd love to see David Lynch get a crack at 8 episodes, or on the safe side a renowned TV director like Terence Winter. Fukunaga and Pizzolatto seem to work together really well though, I say if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I think it's going to be really hard for Pizzolatto to match the success of the first season and be able to create as compelling characters, get an all star cast comparable to season 1, and have 8 episodes in a new setting with a new story. I'd be amazed if he pulls off anything near as good as this season.

or 3, or 5...whenever he's in the shower in 1995 and Cohle is giving a monologue in 2012 about the nature of...whatever it was. I really enjoy this quote and in retrospect I'm really glad to see him think this way because at the end of the day, I never wanted to learn I should have been secretly despising Hart this whole time. That character has been the rock of this show while McConaughey drives it forward.

"Did you imagine that there would be so much audience speculation that Rust or Marty was the murderer, or was that a frustrating surprise as the show has unfolded?

NP: It was a little surprising, but not frustrating at all, just part of the experience of having people connect to the show. The possibility is built into the story, as it has to be credible that the 2012 PD suspect Cohle. I just thought that such a revelation would be terrible, obvious writing. For me, the worst writing generally just �flips� things: this person�s really a traitor; it was all a dream; etc. Nothing is so ruinous as a forced �twist,� I think."

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

late pass me if necessary

http://kinodramaturg.ru/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/HBO-True-Detective-Ep-2.pdf


its interesting to see how they changed things up. looks like there was a lot more background flashbacks for rust showing his family like and undercover days.

"My family's been..".."Okay thanks" vrooooom

.

great to watch it all play out.

i'm glad none of the dumb theories people had came up and the show stayed true to form and focused on marty & rust.

I know ppl were expecting more. But it was perfect...so ridiculous...but how else could this go? Great acting. The last 5 minutes. yes.

@rob_starrk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE2n-nwiqDs

I was completely lost on how seeing a picture and deciding it may have been freshly painted led them to believe that had anything to do with the case itself...?

green eared spaghetti monster, and Marty was trying to figure out why his ears were green. Looking at the pic of the house jogged his memory, he knew he had seen that house with a fresh coat of green paint.

So he pulled the home ownership records, found the lays that owned the home in 95, and after talking to her found that the guy that painted it had a contract to do work for parishes and had a scarred face. That connected all the dots from there...

when Marty pulled out the 95 picture.

i had my doubts, but remus turned out to be a worthy villain. the chase scene through the maze was tense and the set design was immaculate. that scene where errol is holding up cohle and cohle headbutts him to save his life was fucking awesome. that'll be one of the images from this show that sticks with me.

people are going to be mad that the cult killings weren't completely solved. i too was hoping we would learn more about the killings from steve or errol, but i like that the show wasn't wrapped up perfectly with a bow on top. as rust said, nothing ever gets solved and it would have been too unbelievable if these two men exposed decades of mass murders which implicated one of the most powerful families in the state. that being said, the reports did still get out and it could be argued that killing errol put an end to those sacrifices.

some will be mad that hart's daughters weren't involved but imo those theories that included maggie, the kids, or her dad were silly and would work better in a SAW movie than in this show. i took all the hints and imagery relating to hart's daughters as more of a sign that the perversion, violence, and darkness that hart spent a career investigating was also going on at home right under his nose. he was just too inattentive to notice it.

this season was not only about the age old story between light and darkness, but also two characters and how their values, motives, and lives change over 17 years. cohle is left finally realizing all that he's lost and perhaps will try to regain it, and hart finally gets over all that he has lost and abandons his pessimism.

after the first seven episodes that focused on development and pacing, it was damn near impossible to conclude 17 years in one episode without it seeming sudden, but i think they delivered. i'm thinking this show might have won its' way into my top 5, maybe even top 3. can't wait to see what's in store for season 2, but they sure do have high standards to meet now.

>i had my doubts, but remus turned out to be a worthy villain.
>the chase scene through the maze was tense and the set design
>was immaculate. that scene where errol is holding up cohle and
>cohle headbutts him to save his life was fucking awesome.
>that'll be one of the images from this show that sticks with
>me.

Him saying "no!" and running was fucking awesome... and those headbutts were as epic as end of movie fight I've ever seen

>people are going to be mad that the cult killings weren't
>completely solved. i too was hoping we would learn more about
>the killings from steve or errol, but i like that the show
>wasn't wrapped up perfectly with a bow on top. as rust said,
>nothing ever gets solved and it would have been too
>unbelievable if these two men exposed decades of mass murders
>which implicated one of the most powerful families in the
>state. that being said, the reports did still get out and it
>could be argued that killing errol put an end to those
>sacrifices.

with the whole world being exposed to this, you have to think others run with this and the investigation will continue

>some will be mad that hart's daughters weren't involved but
>imo those theories that included maggie, the kids, or her dad
>were silly and would work better in a SAW movie than in this
>show. i took all the hints and imagery relating to hart's
>daughters as more of a sign that the perversion, violence, and
>darkness that hart spent a career investigating was also going
>on at home right under his nose. he was just too inattentive
>to notice it.

I'm not mad about this, but the drawing with the mask, I just wish we never saw that, I needed a pay off for that

>this season was not only about the age old story between light
>and darkness, but also two characters and how their values,
>motives, and lives change over 17 years. cohle is left finally
>realizing all that he's lost and perhaps will try to regain
>it, and hart finally gets over all that he has lost and
>abandons his pessimism.
>
>after the first seven episodes that focused on development and
>pacing, it was damn near impossible to conclude 17 years in
>one episode without it seeming sudden, but i think they
>delivered. i'm thinking this show might have won its' way into
>my top 5, maybe even top 3. can't wait to see what's in store
>for season 2, but they sure do have high standards to meet
>now.

great show

>with the whole world being exposed to this, you have to think
>others run with this and the investigation will continue


As it was police were reluctant to pursue this case
With higher ups now even more powerful
They found their scape goat and this case will definitely be wrapped up
Plus the news report backup up that " this was a solved case with no connection to Tuttle"


They aren't running with anything
They left ends loose


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>this season was not only about the age old story between light
>and darkness, but also two characters and how their values,
>motives, and lives change over 17 years. cohle is left finally
>realizing all that he's lost and perhaps will try to regain
>it, and hart finally gets over all that he has lost and
>abandons his pessimism.

yup. and while i wasn't crazy about the finale but at the end of the day, that's what the story was about. though my expectations was for something different, i kept saying while watching last night, this season was more about cohle and hart more than anything else. when i go back and watch it, i think i will be able to appreciate it a lot more than i did last night.

of best shows on tv

part of me was hoping for a larger conspiracy nod

but it ended the way it should have

It started off slow
Loved the chases scene
great work with the fight
A look at the killer and how he lives seemed almost typical
And the unresolved plot lines and clues that the writer left dangling
Which he wants us to wrap up with "everything can't be solved"
Feels more like a cop out
In the end this turned out to be a odd couple buddy cop show
Go figure
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

people keep talking about.

confirmation of all the people in the video? okay, maybe, but we know the names of 6 out of the 8 and the other 2 were part of the family as well.

thats really the only thing i can think of that wasnt fully explained in detail but it wasnt really necessary.

But yeah he left too much dangling
And not in a god way

- Marty's daughter(s) and the clear trauma they went through
- Dora' knowledge of the yellow king and her rantings
- rust us really resolved regarding his own family knowing that cabal of men are still out there? Not only that but optimistic because they caught only one guy?
- that rigmarole on the boat
- the rigmarole in the projects

For?

This is a writer who likes to wander and doesn't know how to wrap things up
Like I said turns out dude wanted to do a fancy buddy/cop show
Welp he succeeded
Yay

I actually think most dudes are satisfied because they got to see titties in the show
There's a lot of pretense going on with regards to the quality of the show
Pretty (or dark and grungy as hell) not as much substance as it alluded to
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

But the ending was ultimately wildly disappointing.

Maybe I missed it but did we even get a firm answer on what the story was with the Yellow King? Was it Errol?

the writer was trying to let us down easy when he realized he bit off more than he could chew
and his intention was to make a great buddy/cop show

mystery and noir writers would smack the mess out of him
lol


fortunately for the writer nearly every body else did a bang up job
the writer well his intention was to write a buddy cop show
...um...yay?
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

that actually reading that book might be helpful to understand the pathology of the Yellow King.

He wrote this series like a short story out of the book. People read this play and go crazy. They believe they can become the yellow king. Hence the reason Errol was quoting the actual play (not any of the other short stories in the book. "take off your mask" is a line from Act 1, Scene 2). He mentions that he is ascending (in the first story, the man needed to kill or get rid of his cousin to become the yellow king to rule the world).

like the book isn't necessary but that fills in the gaps for that whole storyline which is really secondary to the main story.

at this point we know its meaningless ramblings of a psycho path
might as well watch north by northwest to "figure things out"
its all surface no real depth
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

...in short, its not meaningless to him because thats what he based his life around. its why he killed and raped (along with the fact that he was raped himself). Carcosa was his life, he wanted to ascend.

this is the mistake ppl make when they don't understand...to write off the ramblings of a mentally ill person (including psychos because let's face it, they are ill) as "meaningless".

His reality is not any less than yours because you don't get it.

is telling you it aint that deep

and he gives an ending like that
take him at his word

this isnt; about "understanding errol" again no more than trying to understand anything beyond the two main characters
and that only goes but so deep

light and dark
thats it


so everything with the yellow king?
not utilized as much as you hoped
it does just mean errol was a psycho serial killer
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

then why do all of y'all have a hard time accepting the ending for what it was?

I never read anything where he said it's not that deep, he said the real story wasn't about the crime and it's not. That was going to get resolved regardless because he already had a plan for the end. The fact is, it's not that deep to Nic because he already knows the story and again, it's not necessary at all to know the story to watch the show but for a fan of cult fiction, those ramblings aren't random. If they were, he could have used any words and not whole quotes from the book. It's just a shout out...and an interesting one.

>- Marty's daughter(s) and the clear trauma they went through

They're moving on in their lives. The older one still struggles, but the younger one's life is together. They even hint at the possibility of reconciliation.

>- Dora' knowledge of the yellow king and her rantings

We know how she knew the Yellow King and Carcosa-- she met LeDoux through her boyfriend. She then, like others, was heavily drugged into submission.

>- rust us really resolved regarding his own family knowing
>that cabal of men are still out there? Not only that but
>optimistic because they caught only one guy?

This was primarily due to his experience in the coma. Not to mention the fact that all involved (Errol, LeDoux, his brother, the reverend, Sheriff Childress) but the politician are dead, everyone else with their hands dirty were basically following orders. Regarding catching the politician, they failed--- but failure is still resolution.

>- that rigmarole on the boat

That was very cleanly resolved. Dude made empty threats to Rust, but when he saw a Rust wasn't joking about the sniper, he shit himself. He won't be doing shit.

>- the rigmarole in the projects

I don't know what resolution you want there. Consequences for Rust? No authority figures know he was there. The one biker guy who does know him doesn't know his real identity, and since Rust went off the radar and changed his appearance over the decades, I don't know what conclusion was wanted.

understand that a resolution means being resolved
a solution
an answer

the closest you are coming is possibly and faintly and quite weakly determining
through conjecture

the writer didn't do his job
and you are trying to for him

so on the one hand folks are getting reprimanded for reading too deeply into some things
but on the other hand you have a writer who uses red herrings like a crutch leading people in all sorts of zany directions mystical and otherwise

what we have below are the straight red herrings non mystical
and no those arent answers
those are not resolutions

>>- Marty's daughter(s) and the clear trauma they went through
>
>They're moving on in their lives. The older one still
>struggles, but the younger one's life is together. They even
>hint at the possibility of reconciliation.

ie nothing has changed from when they were first introduced
the appearance of what was hinted at
and no depth given

unresolved


>>- Dora' knowledge of the yellow king and her rantings
>
>We know how she knew the Yellow King and Carcosa-- she met
>LeDoux through her boyfriend. She then, like others, was
>heavily drugged into submission.

you guess
what drugs?
you guess
this still does not address her comments on the yellow king and why nor how

no resolution

>>- rust us really resolved regarding his own family knowing
>>that cabal of men are still out there? Not only that but
>>optimistic because they caught only one guy?



>This was primarily due to his experience in the coma. Not to
>mention the fact that all involved (Errol, LeDoux, his
>brother, the reverend, Sheriff Childress) but the politician
>are dead, everyone else with their hands dirty were basically
>following orders. Regarding catching the politician, they
>failed--- but failure is still resolution.


what?
no
yet again no resolution


>>- that rigmarole on the boat
>
>That was very cleanly resolved. Dude made empty threats to
>Rust, but when he saw a Rust wasn't joking about the sniper,
>he shit himself. He won't be doing shit.


>>- the rigmarole in the projects
>
>I don't know what resolution you want there. Consequences for
>Rust? No authority figures know he was there. The one biker
>guy who does know him doesn't know his real identity, and
>since Rust went off the radar and changed his appearance over
>the decades, I don't know what conclusion was wanted.

again distractions that didn't move the plot forward in any way
interesting well shot well acted
not well written

the problem is yall want this to be deeper than it is
i'm taking the writer now at his word
he was not deep in this
he was not using nuance
he had no layers to his work
he did not use everything most of everything he layed down


here:
http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2014/03/10/3381971/true-detective-failed/#

http://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/how-the-true-detective-finale-demonstrated-that-its-great-smallscreen-cinema-but-lousy-literary-tv.php#.Ux5p_uddVcc

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2014/03/the-disappointing-finale-of-true-detective.html

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2014/mar/10/true-detective-season-one-finale-recap
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

i mean, a lot of what you are talking about makes it seem as if you didn't even watch the show, or had no comprehension or retention of what you watched.

>>- Marty's daughter(s) and the clear trauma they went through
>

what CLEAR trauma did the daughters go through? did we see them get abused? did ANYONE on the show even hint at or imply that they were abused in any way? they had an absent and inattentive father who cheated on their mother. is that the abuse you are referring to? and dont come in here with some drawings that millions of un-molested kids draw everyday, or a doll scene that marty most likely saw in his head. wow, i guess 40% of kids growing up had CLEAR TRAUMA. go find some resolution for all the kids growing up in single parent households, or who have parents that cheat on each other, or fathers who don't understand female puberty, or parents work too much and ignore their kids.

>>- Dora' knowledge of the yellow king and her rantings
>

DID YOU EVEN WATCH THE FIRST EPISODE?! the medical examiner says she had meth and lsd in her system. she was a known junkie and told her ex husband she met 'a king.' she wrote in her journal about carcosa, the yellow king, black stars etc. reggie ledoux and dewall ledoux were the drug suppliers. errol killed her and staged her body in the sugar cane fields. they didnt just snatch her up and kill her in one night, she was seen with them over several weeks. they used her, drugged her, and sacrificed her. the knife used to make the shallow stab wounds on her stomach is found in errols shed with his fingerprints on it and its also the same knife used in the rianne oliver murder.

>>- rust us really resolved regarding his own family knowing
>>that cabal of men are still out there? Not only that but
>>optimistic because they caught only one guy?

he wasn't optimistic at all! he wakes up from a coma and is still asking questions and still mad they didn't get them all. having just had a near death experience and just woke up from a coma were you expecting him to bust through the hospital window 'crash' style, scale the wall, and go back to his storage trailer? to collect more evidence on who, the senator? everyone else was dead or was only connected to the cover up and not the actual murders.

>>- that rigmarole on the boat
>

WTF were you watching? they got the info they needed and let the sheriff go. thats it, thats the scene. and they warned him that if he talked or if anything happened to them that the info they sent out would implicate him because he was the one who took the original missing person report for marie and he was in 'possession' of the tape when they found it. what more needs to be spoon-fed about such a simple and straightforward scene?

>>- the rigmarole in the projects
>

again, i don't really know what more you want out of something so simple. there's literally zero ambiguity about the projects sequence. it was just a means to an end that rust had to go through to get the connection he needed to reggie ledoux who was the drug supplier of the biker gang. without ginger there is no meeting with dewall, and without dewall, marty has no one to follow to find out where the ledoux compound is. dead simple.

there is nothing "deep" about the plot in this story at all and no one is looking for more meaning except for you and a few other people who were not paying attention to what you were watching.

>there is nothing "deep" about the plot in this story at all

people seem to be mad that we are saying this
you can go talk to lovelyone because she still thinks there is more to this that what was actually there

and yes all we are doing is taking the writers word for it
unfortunately this does mean the writer did a bad job
you dont get to abuse red herrings, danglers, foreshadowing
have plot holes
and we dont get to say anything about it
people are shrugging it off and making excuses for it
thats fine for them and you

it's
not "oh we are bad viewers"
not "we didn't comprehend what we saw"
not " because we didn't like the ending this now sucks"

we liked the damn show
we get to criticize it
and we get to point out what is a clear and major flaw in the season
the writing
period


the good news?

this also shows that maybe writing isn't as important as people like to think it is
when the other supporting aspects of a production are solid


...
also if a kid making rape scene of 5 male dolls
and having those kinds of pictures drawn at that age is cool with you
i feel sorry for kids around you
because apparently everything is fine with that kid in your book
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and the doll scene has been previously addressed in this thread, by me, but again you were not paying attention.

>>>- Marty's daughter(s) and the clear trauma they went
>through
>>
>>They're moving on in their lives. The older one still
>>struggles, but the younger one's life is together. They even
>>hint at the possibility of reconciliation.
>
>ie nothing has changed from when they were first introduced
>the appearance of what was hinted at
>and no depth given
>
>unresolved

Huh? No, them going from being neglected by their father to feeling for their father after moving on in their lives is the definition of change.

It's not especially deep, but it's their supporting character arc. What did you expect from them? The girls aren't on screen terribly often over the course of the show, roughly a scene per episode, sometimes two.

>>>- Dora' knowledge of the yellow king and her rantings
>>
>>We know how she knew the Yellow King and Carcosa-- she met
>>LeDoux through her boyfriend. She then, like others, was
>>heavily drugged into submission.
>
>you guess
>what drugs?
>you guess
>this still does not address her comments on the yellow king
>and why nor how
>
>no resolution

None of those are guesses. The boyfriend tells us she met LeDoux through him. We are told by the police report that she was drugged by her captors. When we see others drugged by the same captors, it shows consistency. The detectives also state outright that drugs are used to brainwash victims. These are all textual.

You may not Iike those answers, but they are unquestionably provided.



>>>- rust us really resolved regarding his own family knowing
>>>that cabal of men are still out there? Not only that but
>>>optimistic because they caught only one guy?
>
>
>
>>This was primarily due to his experience in the coma. Not to
>>mention the fact that all involved (Errol, LeDoux, his
>>brother, the reverend, Sheriff Childress) but the politician
>>are dead, everyone else with their hands dirty were
>basically
>>following orders. Regarding catching the politician, they
>>failed--- but failure is still resolution.
>
>
>what?
>no
>yet again no resolution

Again, you may not like it, but that's a resolution. You're allowed to be disappointed in the resolution, but it *is* a very clear resolution.

>>>- that rigmarole on the boat
>>
>>That was very cleanly resolved. Dude made empty threats to
>>Rust, but when he saw a Rust wasn't joking about the sniper,
>>he shit himself. He won't be doing shit.
>
>
>>>- the rigmarole in the projects
>>
>>I don't know what resolution you want there. Consequences
>for
>>Rust? No authority figures know he was there. The one biker
>>guy who does know him doesn't know his real identity, and
>>since Rust went off the radar and changed his appearance
>over
>>the decades, I don't know what conclusion was wanted.
>
>again distractions that didn't move the plot forward in any
>way
>interesting well shot well acted
>not well written

The boat rigmarole confirms for Hart that a conspiracy unquestionably exists, whereas before it was all based on Rust, which could have made it the ravings of a crazy man.

The projects rigmarole directly leads them to LeDoux.

Again, I just don't know what it is you expect. I'm sorry that the resolutions are disappointing for you, or that you expected more depth or twists or something different than what was on screen.

My objection is to the statement that things were left unresolved. Everything *was* resolved. Maybe not in a way that satisfies everyone, which is fine. But the resolution is all there.

>the problem is yall want this to be deeper than it is
>i'm taking the writer now at his word
>he was not deep in this
>he was not using nuance
>he had no layers to his work
>he did not use everything most of everything he layed down
>
>
>here:
>http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2014/03/10/3381971/true-detective-failed/#
>
>http://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/how-the-true-detective-finale-demonstrated-that-its-great-smallscreen-cinema-but-lousy-literary-tv.php#.Ux5p_uddVcc
>
>http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2014/03/the-disappointing-finale-of-true-detective.html
>
>http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2014/mar/10/true-detective-season-one-finale-recap

Reading reviews that trashed something that I really enjoyed won't water down my pure enjoyment of it, the same as if I posted raves of the finale how it likely wouldn't change your mind.

Which, again, is totally fine. I just take exception to the argument that things were unresolved or that I'm somehow doing guesswork to resolve things. Things were resolved, on screen, via the text. No guesswork necessary.

Loved the tense chase scene and how it all played out.

Worth the time.

Rust's buddy sniping that maserati was classic. LOL
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

The show, and Pizzolato has said this so many times, was never really about the actual murders but rather used that as a vehicle to develop the characters. The ending was no different and perhaps exemplified it the best. That final scene...it's all one story, light vs dark....the light's winning.

First, it's not a completely open ending because we KNOW who was involved in that conspiracy. It's not some huge mystery like Lost or something.

Second, it would be unrealistic for Marty and Rust to bring a conspiracy involving that powerful family within an 8 episode season. Maybe if there was another season of this story that could happen, but that would be a completely different show because the mystery is gone. We already know who was involved and what happened. That would be redundant.

Third, it's not just us (the audience) that knows who was involved. If enough of the general public knew about the conspiracy that it was addressed (by name!) on the news saying there was no connection, then you better believe that Marty and Rust put enough evidence out there that all of the police and FBI are thoroughly investigating all of those loose strings. That's the thing that I think some people that are disappointed are missing. They mentioned the Tuttle family by name on the freaking news...so that isn't some crazy conspiracy theory that had been debunked, and taking the news at their word when they are saying there was no connection is naive. It would have been disappointing if they didn't address the bigger conspiracy at all.

I saw someone on another forum say they would have been more satisfied if the news report said that police were investigating a larger conspiracy. That makes no sense - if they are investigating a conspiracy that goes that high there's no way they would be telling the media about it before they made arrests and brought everything out. The way they handled it was perfect - that news report let us know that everyone is aware of the conspiracy and they are leaving it to our imaginations as to exactly how it went from there.

i wasn't expecting the whole thing to be resolved.

If Hart and Marty went after those with true power in the conspiracy, they probably would have ended up dead.

..just as it started:

two detectives, reconciling their differences for the greater good.

say what you want about tying up loose ends, this season finale was all anyone can truly expect from a show entitled True Detective.

while there will undoubtedly be plenty of people clamoring for more, the truth is as uncompromising as it is just: nothing ugly is ever resolved neatly.

you can follow every clue given, only to find that each revelation leads to more. the bottom line is that hart & cohle finally solved the murder of Dora Lang, which turned out to be the tip of the iceberg.

sweeping views of the bayou gave incredible depth to just how layered that area can be, littered with history, life, & death. inside the world of errol was interesting, if only for the stark contradiction of his character (most notably: his convos with his father & his significant other/sister).

the final confrontation was a solid chase through the world of errol, ending with a grand battle between the bad men & the monsters, each man saving the life of the other. although hart & cohle ultimately prevail, that victory is not without sacrifice. as each man lie recovering in the hospital, profound introspection leads to even more depth of character.

the final convo between martin & rust reveals a fragile understanding of life & death in this world or any other. anyone who willingly chooses to pursue the mysteries of the light & dark must surely be a true detective.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Why niggas be trying to prove Internet hypotheses?

i beloeve this is where many of us stand on the ending
again we dont dislike the show
but we admit that it fell short

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/the-failure-of-true-detective/

The Failure of �True Detective�
The fact that the internet is full of defenses (or at least quasi-defenses) of the �True Detective� finale today is a testament to the show�s genuinely extraordinary qualities � direction, acting, atmosphere, and (sometimes) writing. But I�m afraid it�s also a testament to the human will to believe, often in defiance of the evidence, and reading the various apologia for the way the detective drama finished up I�m inclined to channel the show�s nihilist-hero�s harsh words about religion: �You gotta get together and tell yourself stories that violate every law of the universe just to get through the day? What�s that say about your reality?�

Spoilers to follow.


The story that�s being told today by the finale�s partisans is that ending a mystery story that didn�t just hint at but actually depicted a large-scale, decades-long, cult-driven conspiracy to rape and murder dozens (if not hundreds) of women and children by having the detective-heroes chase down and kill a single inbred psychopathic serial killer, leaving the rest of the conspiracy basically untouched and every other plot strand dangling, was actually somehow the best way to be true to the show�s spirit. Maybe because the story was always supposed to be about the characters rather than the actual investigation (this is basically the �Lost� defense); maybe because audiences somehow made a big mistake focusing on the �window dressing� to what was supposed to be a linear, get-your-man plot; maybe because �True Detective� wanted to show how particular evils can be defeated even as capital-E Evil, represented by the cult and the conspiracy, necessarily continue; maybe � well, there are plenty of stories out there if you want to feel good about how the show finished up.

But as Rust Cohle would say, �if the common good�s gotta make up fairy tales then it�s not good for anybody.� Look: �True Detective� was many things � many brilliant things, let me stipulate � but it was still, at heart, a mystery story. And if you tell a mystery story, the way you solve the mystery matters to the success of your art. And then, more specifically � if you tell a story in such a way that the audience knows the mystery is sprawling and capital-B Big (and not in an internet obsessive sense of �knows,� but in the sense that the show�s creator concedes, explicitly, that there are actually at least ten men involved in the murders, not one) while dropping clues that suggest still more complexities and entanglements, and then you shrink the resolution to something smaller, a single scapegoat, while supplying no new information whatsoever about the conspiracy that your heroes were obsessed with � well, then you�ve made your whole story smaller, less interesting, and less important than the architecture of the first seven episodes suggested that the audience should think.

I tried to get at this in my own pre-finale post, but I think Andrew DeYoung, also writing before the finale aired, zeroed in on the issue better than I did:

There�s a popular idea floating around � that the identity of its killer doesn�t really matter. Essentially, that the solution to the mystery around which the show revolves is insignificant, a sort of MacGuffin that provides an occasion for the story that takes place around it, but which itself fades into nothingness when you look at it directly.

The truth is the opposite: in a narrative constructed around a mystery, that central mystery, if anything, takes on an outsize importance, one that threatens to blot out everything else. On some level, the only thing that matters in a mystery story is the last chapter. You may think that�s unfair, but it�s just the way the genre works, and if Nick Pizzolatto is a crime writer worth his salt, he understands the nature of the high-stakes game he�s playing.

And here�s De Young�s elaboration on how that game works:

about the ideal structure of a mystery story � holds that in a mystery there are essentially two kinds of plot: an apparent plot and a revealed plot. The apparent plot is everything that happens up to the final chapter of the story�it�s what seems to be the case, what is immediately apparent, until the very end. The revealed plot is what really turns out to be the case after all the mysteries have been revealed. In a really good mystery, one with real existential stakes like True Detective, the difference between these two kinds of plots isn�t just mechanical, it�s interpretive. It isn�t just about who-appears-to-have-dunit and who-really-dunit. It�s about what it all�the world, good and evil, women and men, family, justice, society, the truth at the heart of humanity�really means: what it seems to mean when we�re wandering in the darkness, and what it means when we come out into the light.

Another theory holds that what the structure of a mystery is really about is story and discourse, signifier and signified. The mystery, in its opening chapters, posits the existence of a coherent, meaningful story: the body in the woods, the blood spatter, the knife in the grass, the partial footprint. But the story is hidden, its meaning obscured. The narrative that proceeds from this point is not, itself, the story�it is, rather, discourse, the system of talk and empty signification and endless deferment that surrounds the story, like planets orbiting a star that can be glimpsed only glancingly, never directly. The story, usually, is revealed in the final chapter, but the story that preceded the story�the story of the detectives finding clues, signifiers throbbing with a meaning that lay just outside their grasp�that wasn�t the story.

Their story, the detective�s story, was merely the construction of a story.

So what the finale�s defenders are basically saying, in their �it�s about the characters/journey/themes� arguments, is a combination of two responses to De Young: Either that in this case the apparent story was good enough to overcome a partial, unsurprising, insufficient reveal, or that in this case the apparent story/construction of the story was the real story, and we should recognize that the reveal was essentially irrelevant to what �True Detective� were interested in doing.

And I can buy these arguments as a justification for still liking the show after its finale. (I still do!) But they aren�t arguments that justify the finale itself. Because for all the strengths of its apparent story, all the pleasure of the Harrelson-McConaughey story-construction project, �True Detective� still played by genre rules and built up genre expectations: The clues were clearly supposed to add up to something, the witnesses weren�t all red herrings, and the investigation into the underlying conspiracy was built up throughout as real, and important, and meaningful, in ways that justified audience investment in its resolution. This wasn�t a �Big Lebowski�-esque shaggy-dog gumshoe parody or a Paul Auster-esque deconstruction. This was a story about actual crimes (fictional, yes, but real in the world of the show) perpetrated by actual people whose actions clearly did add up to a rich, complicated, and horrific revealed story � or would have, if the show hadn�t copped out and left that story mostly unrevealed instead.

And to be clear: Saying the show needed to reveal more is not the same as saying that it needed to have its heroes put everyone involved in the Carcosa/Yellow King cult behind bars. Far from it! Great mystery stories often end with the bad guys getting away with it. But they don�t usually end with the audience sort-of/kind-of knowing who the bad guys are, but not really, because actually we didn�t even meet most of them, and we know they have some kind of pagan cult, but we don�t really know exactly why they were killing people, or why two killings were public and dramatic and the rest were covered up so well nobody even knew they happened, or whether half the clues the story dropped pointed to anything or not, or why or why or why �

The plot of �True Detective� felt, at times, like a hybrid of two famous 1970s-era mystery movies, �Chinatown� and �The Wicker Man� � the former a great film in every sense, the latter a lesser, somewhat-sillier work but still a cult classic. Like �Chinatown� it was a story about an investigation that widens to encompass an entire landscape of corruption, with financial, environmental and familial/sexual elements blended in a toxic stew. Like �Wicker Man� it was a story about a police inquiry that leads to the discovery of a pagan cult that dabbles in some form of human sacrifice. Neither of those two movies, significantly, have anything like a happy ending; indeed, their endings are vastly darker than the last scene of �True Detective,� and their crimes go essentially unpunished (so far as we know). But they both have endings that actually reveal something: They throw a fresh light on what�s happened previously, expose the story-behind-the-story, reveal the essential who/what/why, and weave the various clues dropped along the way into something that surprises/shocks but also makes sense of what�s come before.

It�s this kind of fulfilling/surprising finale, not some �Sixth Sense� twist (Rust Cohle was Cthulhu all long!) or tidy �all bad guys go to jail� triumph, that I � and De Young, and lots of other people � was hoping for from �True Detective.� That it didn�t offer one doesn�t make the performances or direction any less remarkable, or retrospectively transform the show as a whole into �Lost�-style long con. But if you want to play at the �Chinatown� level, as �True Detective� clearly did, you have to respect the standard, and not just rationalize away a final act that fell obviously short.

...
i'll add that everyone keeps downing the plot twist as a device when the abhorrent use of red herrings are just as bad if not a worse abuse

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

this falling short is apparently upsetting to folks
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Because you keep making these upset responses/posts.

I expect at least 10 more telling us how you're not upset.

but hey you're right because its not that deep for me
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Tell us again how you're not upset and it's not that deep.

if not, you should look them up. there are some exercises you can do to help improve the difficulties you are having.

if it makes you feel better to think this
go for it
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

and make a fan ending. let's see how much better that is.

The show was good and entertaining, solid B or B-. Just didn't live up to the expectations set by the first 7 episodes. Lot of shortcuts in the finale. And that's fine. Just disappointing.

Loved the first seven episodes so much I watched it twice in a week, in fact.

But you know what? Episode 8 had a real The Wire Season 5 vibe to me. All the characters were there, all the mood was right, all the sets looked familiar, but something was just...off the whole time. It was ending, and it wanted to end, and that's one of the worst feelings a TV show can leave me with, that I just FEEL it's exhaustion.

The opening ten minutes are fairly rote and bring to mind things like The Ring and an average episode of X-Files or a Batman TV movie, and then from there it picks up into familiarity but without the mysterious expanse of the previous seven seasons. Suddenly it's not 8 bad guys it's 1, Rust and Marty do the surviving unsurvivable wounds thing, Errol does the big bad monster somehow more athletic and skilled in ventriloquism than the muscle-bound detectives like some sort of Scooby Doo villain, Rust gathers all the evidence together for dissemination like a high school thriller and pulls a Walter White on the sheriff with an actual drunk sniper...

It was an entertaining finale. I have nothing but small bones to pick with it in the grand scheme of things; namely, entertainment. But if I'd have known this was the ending the show wanted I probably wouldn't have devoured it as voraciously as I did this past week.

edit: I also plain don't buy Rust outside of the interview room in 2012. Walking around as the Tax Man in 2012 with that rat hair made me laugh out loud. Luckily he was in Louisiana so I'm sure those backwoods hillbillies didn't second guess him pretending to still be state police (hell, those project boys weren't surprised a bunch of Roadhouse bikers were cops, right?) but it sure looked silly to me.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Because many of the criticisms ifresh and some others wrote are solid.

And all the damn red herrings and "go to the website to see more clues of those killed and just who is the yellow king" HBO ads built up lore etc but didnt seem to be considered lol

and placing the girls playing with 6 dolls in a camera shot showing sex play to what what going on and never addressing it?..bullshit and yall know this

It also seems that many people have questions about problems they created, and not the show.

The show created its own problems.

>It also seems that many people have questions about problems
>they created, and not the show.


no, they don't

the show created all this need for hoopla and now that people are questioning the outcome, critical of the outcome etc, then its deemd a problem only created by the viewer

this was written, filmed, advertised via media in a way to do such things, and now that its come to fruition with some they are dogged? lol fuck outta here



yall ate up the positive articles like lap dogs high fiving and "great read!"'s all around lol

now some one or some ppl say "hey but what about..." yall are all "Man quit bitchin and making up shit"

lol tokpr

>>It also seems that many people have questions about
>problems
>>they created, and not the show.
>
>
>no, they don't
>
>the show created all this need for hoopla and now that people
>are questioning the outcome, critical of the outcome etc, then
>its deemd a problem only created by the viewer
>
>this was written, filmed, advertised via media in a way to do
>such things, and now that its come to fruition with some they
>are dogged? lol fuck outta here
>
>
>
>yall ate up the positive articles like lap dogs high fiving
>and "great read!"'s all around lol
>
>now some one or some ppl say "hey but what about..." yall are
>all "Man quit bitchin and making up shit"
>
>lol tokpr
>

i read negative reviews in the new yorker and the washington post, two major news publications, and they didn't even have basic facts of the case correct and they even bought into internet theories that were not based in the reality of the show.

from the new yorker:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2014/03/the-disappointing-finale-of-true-detective.html

"No involvement of Marty�s father-in-law; no payoff on the goth daughter angle; no payoff on a lot of things, actually, like that mysterious convict who died in his cell."

really? marty's father in law appears on screen in exactly one scene, and the entire point of the scene is to foreshadow the behavior of modern teenagers, ie, audrey and her goth make-up and sex experimentation. i have no clue what kind of payoff the review was expecting from the guy francis scene. we learn the killer is still out there, and we learn one of the officers involved right before he killed himself was a childress, and thats all we needed to know.


from the washington post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2014/03/10/true-detectives-predictable-simplistic-finale/

"The real killer of Dora Lange (Amanda Rose Batz), the first victim Rust and Marty investigated, turns out to be Errol Childress (Glenn Fleshler), the son of former sheriff Ted Childress....Sheriff Childress covered up for Errol during the 1995 case, altering a missing persons case file to say that the report was made �in error.� His deputy sheriff, Steve Geraci, admits this all to Rust and Marty in the final episode, excusing his lack of curiosity about the change by telling the two men, �There�s a chain of command."


all of that is just factually incorrect. errol was not the son of ted childress, and ted childress and steve geraci did not cover up the dora lange case in 95, they covered up the marie fontenot missing person report in 93.


and there were plenty of other reviews that made similar mistakes. so if people are not even willing to watch the show carefully and actually pay attention to details that are put forth plainly in front of you, then of course the people who like the show and did pay attention are going to call bullshit when people try to nitpick. no one even needed to visit the website or read interviews to understand the basics that the reviews above got wrong.

Im not talking about those who got it wrong. I stated what in my post.


>>>It also seems that many people have questions about
>>problems
>>>they created, and not the show.
>>
>>
>>no, they don't
>>
>>the show created all this need for hoopla and now that
>people
>>are questioning the outcome, critical of the outcome etc,
>then
>>its deemd a problem only created by the viewer
>>
>>this was written, filmed, advertised via media in a way to
>do
>>such things, and now that its come to fruition with some
>they
>>are dogged? lol fuck outta here
>>
>>
>>
>>yall ate up the positive articles like lap dogs high fiving
>>and "great read!"'s all around lol
>>
>>now some one or some ppl say "hey but what about..." yall
>are
>>all "Man quit bitchin and making up shit"
>>
>>lol tokpr
>>
>
>i read negative reviews in the new yorker and the washington
>post, two major news publications, and they didn't even have
>basic facts of the case correct and they even bought into
>internet theories that were not based in the reality of the
>show.
>
>from the new yorker:
>http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2014/03/the-disappointing-finale-of-true-detective.html
>
>"No involvement of Marty�s father-in-law; no payoff on the
>goth daughter angle; no payoff on a lot of things, actually,
>like that mysterious convict who died in his cell."
>
>really? marty's father in law appears on screen in exactly one
>scene, and the entire point of the scene is to foreshadow the
>behavior of modern teenagers, ie, audrey and her goth make-up
>and sex experimentation. i have no clue what kind of payoff
>the review was expecting from the guy francis scene. we learn
>the killer is still out there, and we learn one of the
>officers involved right before he killed himself was a
>childress, and thats all we needed to know.
>
>
>from the washington post:
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2014/03/10/true-detectives-predictable-simplistic-finale/
>
>"The real killer of Dora Lange (Amanda Rose Batz), the first
>victim Rust and Marty investigated, turns out to be Errol
>Childress (Glenn Fleshler), the son of former sheriff Ted
>Childress....Sheriff Childress covered up for Errol during the
>1995 case, altering a missing persons case file to say that
>the report was made �in error.� His deputy sheriff, Steve
>Geraci, admits this all to Rust and Marty in the final
>episode, excusing his lack of curiosity about the change by
>telling the two men, �There�s a chain of command."
>
>
>all of that is just factually incorrect. errol was not the
>son of ted childress, and ted childress and steve geraci did
>not cover up the dora lange case in 95, they covered up the
>marie fontenot missing person report in 93.
>
>
>and there were plenty of other reviews that made similar
>mistakes. so if people are not even willing to watch the show
>carefully and actually pay attention to details that are put
>forth plainly in front of you, then of course the people who
>like the show and did pay attention are going to call bullshit
>when people try to nitpick. no one even needed to visit the
>website or read interviews to understand the basics that the
>reviews above got wrong.

from your post sounds like YOU are one of those people saying 'hey but what about...'

YOU also said lfresh made 'solid' points. what are these 'solid' points that you both believe have been overlooked or unresolved?

>from the new yorker:
>http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2014/03/the-disappointing-finale-of-true-detective.html
>
>"No involvement of Marty�s father-in-law; no payoff on the
>goth daughter angle; no payoff on a lot of things, actually,
>like that mysterious convict who died in his cell."

The fuck was supposed to happen? Anyone who says "what about his father-in-law?" clearly read one too many internet theories about his alleged involvement instead of witnessing his simple role in the narrative.

It's also amazing how the same people saying "BUT YOU ONLY LIKE THE SHOW FOR WHAT IT IS BECAUSE YOU READ AUTHOR INTERVIEWS" are the same people who are only upset at the show because they read a billon thinkpieces and blog essays about it, lol.

And what's even more insane is, there is totally an argument to be made against the show. "I don't dig the genre" is one. "I prefer my mystery narratives more crime-driven than character-driven" is another. "I prefer my crime stories to have bigger twists at the end" is another still.

But they all come down to preference, not these "unresolved issues" that don't exist, "abandoned theories" that were never concretely introduced, or anything pertaining to the simple execution of strong and intelligent genre storytelling.

>
>>from the new yorker:
>>http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2014/03/the-disappointing-finale-of-true-detective.html
>>
>>"No involvement of Marty�s father-in-law; no payoff on the
>>goth daughter angle; no payoff on a lot of things, actually,
>>like that mysterious convict who died in his cell."
>
>The fuck was supposed to happen? Anyone who says "what about
>his father-in-law?" clearly read one too many internet
>theories about his alleged involvement instead of witnessing
>his simple role in the narrative.
>
>It's also amazing how the same people saying "BUT YOU ONLY
>LIKE THE SHOW FOR WHAT IT IS BECAUSE YOU READ AUTHOR
>INTERVIEWS" are the same people who are only upset at the show
>because they read a billon thinkpieces and blog essays about
>it, lol.
>
>And what's even more insane is, there is totally an argument
>to be made against the show. "I don't dig the genre" is one.
>"I prefer my mystery narratives more crime-driven than
>character-driven" is another. "I prefer my crime stories to
>have bigger twists at the end" is another still.
>
>But they all come down to preference, not these "unresolved
>issues" that don't exist, "abandoned theories" that were never
>concretely introduced, or anything pertaining to the simple
>execution of strong and intelligent genre storytelling.