The article is hard to argue with, especially since I was responsible for the "Common is officially a sellout" post earlier...

http://theloop21.com/society/talib-kweli-and-the-demise-the-conscious-rapperdoc

Kweli's RESPONSE says it all......



If folks would let other folks just BE......
TheRealTPayne

Check this article. Makes Kweli sound like a front...

http://www.xxlmag.com/online/?p=86215

Kweli never claimed to be a conscious rapper, in fact he poked fun at the term. Please define how one is distinctly "conscious". Nas is a conscious rapper to some, yet he said some really really dumb stuff. The term is as dumb as "neo-soul". Why can't it just be "soul"? and why can't they just be rappers? These kids falling for this bs, treating rappers liike they some super-humans and shit. All he did is put some words together. Doesn't make him more or less conscious than the next rapper.

Ok, but when they say conscious rapper you know exactly the handfull of emcees they're talking about, and I think that's what the articles are referring to. You're getting so caught up on the word you're missing the point...

end of the day, they just people who rap for a living. jeez, its not that complex. People put all these artists on a pedestal. you either like the music or you dont.

records come and go and get collected - KRS ONE

The point is, which you're still not getting due to the word "conscious", is that there is a group of emcees who perpetuated a style and image to be marketed to a distinct segment of hip-hop consumers. 20 years later, they are jeopardizing their marketability to the segment of consumers responsible for their success earlier in their career by making questionable decisions in the latter part of their careers in an attempt to stay relevant by marketing themselves to a different segment of consumers...

In other words, heads that were down for their grassroots efforts are questioning the recent artistic decisions for fear it is an attempt to go mainstream, referred to in the article as collaborations with mainstream rappers/pop-acts?

Now, with the recent breakup of Little Brother, whom ironically derived their name from the influence that the "conscious" rappers had on them, where are the hip-hop acts that are going to fill the void as rappers like Kweli and Common grow out of the "conscious" rapper label and attempt to make their music marketable to the mainstream. Wale? Kid Cudi? maybe Blu and Jay Electronica, but that remains to be seen...

Personally, I would like these artists to focus on making more mature music. A review of HIGO illustrated the idea of it being the first hip-hop album for fans 40 and over. As I myself approach that milestone, I find myself moving away from hip-hop as it doesn't challenge me anymore. I have started to indulge in other genres, but I still hold out hope, I still check for those "conscious" rappers, and for the most part, with the exceptions of the Ecstatic and HIGO, I have been greatly disappointed in the level of creativity.

This also applies to the Common post, Any questions...

the article refers to Kweli working with Gucci Mane.

now, who benefits from that? are Kweli fans going to go out and buy Gucci Mane albums? Since I am a Kweli fan, I will give you the answer, NO. Are Gucci Mane fans going to buy a Kweli record with a Gucci Mane appearance? I'm not a Gucci Mane fan but it sounds reasonable to me. So Kweli will sell his projected number of units to the fans who still buy "conscious" music, and he has made himself more relevant to fans who buy Gucci Mane albums, thus possibly generating more sales...

and Wale did the same shit!

I run a marketing/ad firm with few partners, and believe me, simplicity is key. Not all that shit you described. That concept is for people who have that much time on their hands to go and dissect it. You know what sells? Whatever 18-yr old buy. If they want to buy it, that will keep the business interest. Nobody is marketing Kweli as a conscious rapper but the media. If someone did, they stopped somewhere in 2005-ish. You keep living your dream though, but to me it seems very pathetic and immature to EXPECT Kweli to make "more mature music" or basically what YOU yourself want to hear and under the same breath to have the arrogance to talk about artistic integrity. You know what integrity means? Do shit you want to do. Fans will like it or hate it. But don't bitch about something only because you dont like it. Its not that deep, life goes on.

and posts go personal.

That concept is for people who have that much time on their hands to go and dissect it.
You keep living your dream though, but to me it seems very pathetic and immature to EXPECT Kweli to make "more mature music" or basically what YOU yourself want to hear and under the same breath to have the arrogance to talk about artistic integrity.

so now i have too much time on my hands, living in a dream world, pathetic, immature, and arrogant because i read an article and see some validity in the underlying theme of that article? Ok.

You made a remark about knowing what 18 year olds buy. Wouldn't it seem rational that the under 21 segment of hip-hop supporters are more likely to purchase Gucci Mane records than Talib Kweli records, subsequently possibly generating more sales by being more appealing to a wider audience. Didn't go that deep.

Nobody is marketing Kweli as a conscious rapper but the media. If someone did, they stopped somewhere in 2005-ish.

Which is why I'm concerned about the hip-hop I know and love. As I stated previously, with the acts who were once labeled "conscious" advancing in age, pursuing other avenues, and/or making music which conforms to the mainstream, who is going to make that type of music I know and love? It seems to me that there is a huge void in the industry. Speaking for myself as a fan of "conscious" rappers, a large portion of my income has been, and still is, invested in a music collection. We buy music. I said I would LIKE emcees approaching 40 to make music for the same segment of hip-hop purchasers, never said EXPECT. I would LIKE more albums with the same intent as HIGO. So I can't have an opinion about emcees I use to believe in and support if I don't like what they're doing now. I dont have to go that deep to know how I feel.

Just off the top, compare the guest appearances on BlacStarr and RE

Since the main obstacle in the discussion is the label "conscious", I will refer to the individuals I am speaking of as "native tongues", since that is what they called themselves...

In the golden era of hip-hop, circa 1985-88, the majority of music in the market was quality. Toward the end of this era we have the emergence of more commercially viable acts with MC Hammer and NWA moving a lot of units. We also have the emergence of the native tongues. Elder statesmen the Jungle Brothers, ATCQ, and De La, developed a distinct sound and formed an alliance dubbed the native tongues. They developed a sound that was organic, immersed in the preservation of the pillars of hip-hop, and appearing to be unconcerned with commercial success. As their careers progressed into the 90's they helped mentor acts such as BlacStarr, Common, and even the Roots whom subsequently became affiliated. The native tongue family had its 2nd generation and it was in good hands. That was 15 years ago. As those same acts associated with the native tongue sound are progressing into the latter stages of their career, and some appear to becoming more concerned with themselves as commodities, there is a noticeable void in the 3rd generation of the native tongue sound. Regardless of your personal opinion of their music today, what acts are going to hold my interest in the hip-hop industry? The Roots, definitely. Mos Def, mos definitely. Kweli, hesitant. Common, no comment. Gucci Mane, hell no. It seems to me that Jay Electronica has been crowned prince of the 3rd generation. It may seem like an insurmountable task, but I'm praying on it...If heads want to make money, make your money, but my personal interest is vested in the native tongue sound. If there was definite 3rd generation, I wouldn't have to concern myself with decisions that Kweli or Common make, I would have acts to fill my hip-hop prescription and they can go act or collaborate with Gucci Mane. But there isn't, so the expectation may prevail amongst fans of the original native tongue sound for those acts which still remain to carry on the legacy.

My man THERE IS NO ARGUMENT. You act like you crushed my world or some shit. Get off that emo bullshit. Yes people buy more gucci mayne. You know why? Because kids like that igborant shit. Do I? No, but I'm not gonna cry about it and whine on okp like a little baby. I'm over it. You obviously don't get it. You need to go and bitch and complain. Blahblahblah kweli isn't "conscious" blahblah whatever will I do. Dude. It is what it is. You don't like it then don't listen plenty of artists and musical movements changed and evolved. Nothing new here. I really shouldn't bother with this sencitive-ass bullshit and not humor you I just wanted to try. I really shouldn't have.

I didn't write those articles, your a little off-base and insistent on insulting me, crying, whining, bitching = expressing my viewpoint and explaining it with a rational thought process

Go on, keep posting how "unfair" Kweli is to your musical tastes lol. And how he should be doing what YOU want him to do. Because obviously you are the be all there is as far as his fan base goes. Him and Common. And because the likes of Gucci Mayne apparently assaulted your family or something because they are the anti-christs. Man, these kids forget HOW hip-hop used to be in the first place. It was always about ignorance and party. It wasn't always conscious. And every artist has a right to chose to make whatever kind of music they feel like making. Im sorry you feel "insulted" by my opinion. Yet you keep insisting on pushing your opinion down everyones throats.

Did you see the post "conscious rapper" and go into a blind rage of posting.
All I said was that it's hard to argue with.
If you have a problem with the article take it up with the writer

Mychal Denzel Smith is a writer currently based in Virginia Beach, VA. He blogs for Thisweekinblackness.com. Follow him on Twitter (@mychalsmith) or email him at mychal@theloop21.com.

The preceding volley of comments was an attempt to help you realize how a fan, such as myself, might agree with what was being said but that made me subject to your insults.

like i said, i rather keep moving. you seem to be throwing the article around here not me. And all I ask is what is your point? you dont like how kweli portrays himself? what is your point? I already read your cosigns on the article in your initial post. Now what? Do you want to boycott Kweli's music? what do you propose?

As artists once associated with a specific sound which was labeled conscious continue to move away from that sound and/or label, does that sound and/or label just die with no artists showing the ability to fill the void they have left, i.e. little brother and lupe as referenced to in the article.

Is it clear for ya, can you see me

If Kweli really didn't want to be labeled conscious or marketed to that segment of music consumers why would he name his debut album Blackstarr, the Marcus Garvey oceanliner intended to return slaves to africa, riddle me that batman

>As artists once associated with a specific sound which was
>labeled conscious continue to move away from that sound and/or
>label, does that sound and/or label just die with no artists
>showing the ability to fill the void they have left, i.e.
>little brother and lupe as referenced to in the article.

If you don't want it to die, stop bitching about it and start making conscious rap music yourself...right? If you don't like how something's going, do something about it yourself. Otherwise, stfu.

i HEARD YOU dummy. I read you post about Blacktarr. So the fuck what? he named it blackstarr. So what? He "projected" an image people bit into. And now hes on the next one. He is making his choice that you arent happy with. You want him to stay in a bubble. Why don't you make an album then and keep it moving instead of whining? you gonna cry about someone's business decisions? thats pathetic.

yet he doesn't realize that this is the ongoing, endless struggle of the music industry. Artists evolve and change, the music industry evolves and changes. And *ghasp* musicians are ("holy shit!!") human and at times, they contradict themselves...or, more aptly, they just happen to CHANGE and GROW and EVOLVE as they get older.

Not to mention, hip hop by it's very nature is competitive and almost every rap act has had it's complaints about the current state of the industry. Christ, Common, who seems to be on bentagain's hit list, made his CAREER off of complaining about the state of hiphop, and this was DURING bentagain's stated "golden era". So, if Common was part of the golden era where "everything was good then", why would he have so many complaints (I Used to Love HER, specifically) at the time?

Your argument holds no ground. Give it up. Kweli isn't doing what you want him to do, I'm sorry it makes you so upset. Listen to something else.

Every artist who does this for a living needs a way to get REACH. More reach means more sales. Getting on a track with Gucci doesn't mean he's leaving his fan base behind, he's showing his versatility. There are a lot of listeners who are on the cusp. They like conscious, they like "ignorant"... they span the continuum. They are like the middle class. <-- the biggest class. If he can pluck a few members of this segment, he eats more.

Its smart...and I don't think its selling out.

n/m

This is what I have been trying to tell you. Your original post was that conscious rappers "died off". My point was that the term was fabricated to begin with. Now you want to explain it to me? Lol are you really serious? And fyi, naming it "blackstar" has little to do with being conscious. Wtf is conscious anyways? Being awake? That term sucks. NWA would make "conscious" statements.right after interlude of running a train on a girl. Don't mean shit.

the song is wack talib sold out on that one and i love kweli

The problem with most conscious rappers today is that they sound wack

You need some crazy beats and a great flow too - like when Public Enemy dropped, they could have been talking about fast food, no one would have cared because they sounded so amazing

Conscious artists today whine about no one buying conscious stuff... but hey Black Eyed Peas "Where is the Love" sold millions and is a conscious record. It did well because it's a catchy pop song, but it shows people will buy "conscious" rapping as long as they actually like the SOUND of the music

Most conscious stuff today is like a guy talking and talking and talking over a monotonous beat... well obviously no one is gonna listen to your message, because they can't get past the boredom of the presentation

and article he makes some good points.

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