shutter island... damn

just got back from the opening...

movie was dope.

i suggest smoking beforehand.

should be good

When I first saw the trailer I did some research and found out it was a book.
Went and bought it the next day and thought it was a great read.
Was bummed when it got pushed back to the Feb release.
Glad it's here now.
Going tonight........

also, leo is gonna make a strong oscar push with this performance.

Why did they push the movie back from being released in the fall? Movies released early in the year are always severely handicapped for Oscars.

possibly his best yet. he basically carried the entire movie.

watching the interviews with leo and marty
i feel like i know what this is about....
bear with me folks i like to play this little game with myself
from time to time...


















i think
leo's character is fucking nuts
and i am going to be watching his character come to grips with the fact that he lost it and killed people
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Having read the book, and guessing that the film has remained faithful to the story that's laid out, that's all I'll say until I see it myself...

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*walks away quickly*

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

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but i'm not trying to give away anything else
until you or more people see it
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Great movie.

Too much hamfisted monologue aimed at modern issues with pharmaceuticals, not enough suspense.

Felt like the main conceit was used to justify awkward cuts, poor sound design, and frequent visual continuity errors.

Leo and Kingsley were decent, but most of the acting was caught between homage and a bad accent.

Once it hits the scene in the cave, the movie is just dead in the water.

They raped A Beautiful Mind and then decided to throw it in a blender with Arkam Asylum.


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I loved it though. I'm going to have to see it again to fully grasp it, I think. Some of those dreams he had were nuts....really freaked me out.
Leo killed it though. Great, great job by him.

that was a good lookin film right there.

It was bloated and that took away from a lot of the power IMO. Oddly enough, I really agree with EW on this one. Owen Gleiberman said something to the effect that the end was much better than the soggy middle. I also agree that they should have just gone for a pulpy flick, cut out the WWII stuff and the Warden.

The people who I went with liked it; I just got a bit bored by it all. Some amazing performances and it looked amazing. It's one of those films that I wouldn't recommend but, on the other hand, would probably say that they should talk to other people and not rely on my suggestion.

Then again, I've never complained about movie's being too long. If I'm paying money to come to a theater, I want my money's worth. I don't mind seeing all the backstory and subplots. I don't want to see an episode of a show, I want to see a movie.

Not saying that this is a perfect example of this but c'mon, you've NEVER complained about a movie being too long?

just curious, which scenes would you have cut out?

I know that some people probably liked going into Leo's psyche a bit more but I thought pretty much everything with the Nazis could have gone along with the car ride with the Warden. I just wasn't a fan of the pacing. I thought a lot of scenes could have been cut down.

The people I went to see it with liked it; I never really got into it so the middle really dragged for me.

>I know that some people probably liked going into Leo's
>psyche a bit more but I thought pretty much everything with
>the Nazis could have gone along with the car ride with the
>Warden. I just wasn't a fan of the pacing. I thought a lot of
>scenes could have been cut down.
>
>The people I went to see it with liked it; I never really got
>into it so the middle really dragged for me.


Honestly, I was never bothered by any of the scenes and the movie never "too" long or like it was going off track. The warden scene - albeit a tad frivolous - was one of my favorite scenes in the movie. I really enjoyed that small exchange and it added one of the few moments of comic relief. I can see why you would have this criticism, but I personally disagree.

The only part I thought went on too long was the dream where he meets Laedes in the Doctor's home and with the vision of the woman drenched in blood and the three kids. Otherwise, everything else worked for me.

And the Warden really wasn't in it for that much. Just that one scene where he picks him up from the cave, and that wasn't nearly long enough to me to be distracting.

I thought it was quite faithful to the book, though not as much as I thought it would be (they kinda glanced over Teddy's whole Rule of Four thing here, and no, I don't remember the entire thing, so please don't ask)

After seeing the movie, it becomes pretty clear that Lehane's story is a psychological character drama disguised as a densely-plotted noir thriller. The film looked and felt like a noir, but ultimately wasn't. I can see how it could be aggravating and ultimately boring for some. I didn't find it boring at all. And while there's not a lot of depth to be had here, the movie's also not about action and cheap thrills like a Cape Fear. The only spooky scary guy lives in the main character's head.

This is the story of an extremely haunted and disturbed man. A soldier, a cop, a husband, a father, a killer. Every plot point reveals something about the character, not about what happened to the patient. To me, that's a noir-ish "whodunit" mislead. An excuse for everyone around Edward to go along with his role-playing exercise. And I think you needed to see every single vision here -- every visual and audio trigger -- to fully and ultimately understand the depths of Edward's psychosis.

I thought the performances from Leo, Michelle Williams, and Ben Kingsley were quite good. I was also struck by how good the movie looked even though it was so drab and dark. I'll have to see it again to completely understand the use of the color red at various points...

So, I would just advise anyone going in hoping for a dark and stormy mystery thriller with action and thrills and chills (and daffodils) to fall back on those expectations a little, because that's not what's here...

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>So, I would just advise anyone going in hoping for a dark and
>stormy mystery thriller with action and thrills and chills
>(and daffodils) to fall back on those expectations a little,
>because that's not what's here...
>

lmao nice Prince reference

It was pretty dope.

Had very little interest in watching it from the trailer but was interested to see what Scorsese could do with a thriller. Although it's not great or even good for that matter, I did sorta enjoy it. There were some great shots and scenes in the movie, specifically a shot of the American troops going through all the papers of a Nazi camp and having all the papers flying in the air in slow motion as Leo creeps up on a dying Nazi. But Leo's accent was WAY over the top, I couldn't take his character seriously until stuff started to happen to him.

There's a a lot of comparisons to Hitchcock, which is fair but I see a lot more influence from Kubrick (IE// The Shining). I mean between the heavy flashes of memories and the way the dead ppl come to him is very much like The Shining.

>There's a a lot of comparisons to Hitchcock, which is fair but
>I see a lot more influence from Kubrick (IE// The Shining). I
>mean between the heavy flashes of memories and the way the
>dead ppl come to him is very much like The Shining.


yes, some very kubrick-esq scenes/shots throughout. i really loved the cinematography and how scorsese & richardson captured the solemn vastness of the remote island. i hate movies that jump around constantly, as if the audience will lose interest if there isn't constantly quick edits and scene changes, etc.

The Nazi camp scenes were extremely well done. It's weird to see a movie this "pretty" from Scorsese, as he usually goes for a grittier look. He seems to have been going this direction since Aviator, but this is the first one that seems full-on. It seemed an alot better attempt at this haunting reality than Bringing Out The Dead but still isn't by any means up to great or classic Scorsese status.

it's seems to be a failed kubrick/hitchcock piece

i'm not sure what it was
but it fell flat at a certain point
it probably didn't help that the plot was what i suspected and was hoping for...i dunno more
because as a character study it was meh
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

another thing about this movie: damn near ALL the supporting actors/actresses were superb. from the nutjobs in the prison, to ruffalo and sydel... they were all flawlessly portrayed.

and for those hating on leo, I just don't see the validation here. not this movie. I can see it for damn near all his previous efforts (excluding Gilbert Grape) but he owned the shit out of this role.

Is it just me or did they leave it ambiguous as to whether he was crazy or not? The look mark ruffalo gives at the end combined with the fact that he calls him Teddy... maybe I'm crazy. How does the book end?

The book ends the exact same way.

EDIT: I actually don't remember if it's hinted that he's not actually crazy at the end...

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So what was with the "shaking his head towards the doctors" look he gave? I thought it was a fairly clear sign that he was telling the doctors that he had regressed back to the fantasy.

Although I haven't read the book and literally just got back from seeing the movie, so this hasn't all totally sunk in yet.

Maybe the doctor (Chuck) mis-diagnosed him? Or maybe, since he's spent so much time with this patient, he just understands why Edward does what he does and gives the go-ahead... again, I don't recall it being explicitly spelled out either way in the book...

It's certainly good food for thought...

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I thought he was playing the part to trick them. I like that it was ambiguous whether or not he regressed and I personally like it better that he chooses to get lobotomized.

On a grander scheme, I like that it kind of shows that spending all of this time to deal with a symptom is pointless if you don't address the main cause of the problem. Whether his subconscious is fooling him or he makes a conscious decision, he'd rather be crazy than have to deal with what happened to him. Kind of reminds me of... well, a couple of movies but I don't want to mention them in case people haven't seen them (although they are both a few years old by now)

EDIT: And there's no way IMO that he was NEVER crazy. I mean, that would require WAY too many coincidences (although there are still some parts IMO that don't quite fit the role play story). Not saying people here are saying that but some people after the movie were holding out hope that that might be true.

>I thought he was playing the part to trick them. I like that
>it was ambiguous whether or not he regressed and I personally
>like it better that he chooses to get lobotomized.

The way I interpreted it at the end is that he knew he had killed his wife, but that he'd rather be lobotomized than live with that memory and the memory that his wife killed their three kids.

I also think he was crazy the entire time before that.

>The way I interpreted it at the end is that he knew he had
>killed his wife, but that he'd rather be lobotomized than live
>with that memory and the memory that his wife killed their
>three kids.
>
>I also think he was crazy the entire time before that.

Either he was still crazy, or he'd come to terms with reality but decided it wasn't worth it.

Then there's the question of Ruffalo's response. After he shakes his head to the doctors, he's not sure whether Andrew was still crazy or not.

>Then there's the question of Ruffalo's response. After he
>shakes his head to the doctors, he's not sure whether Andrew
>was still crazy or not.

The way I remember it:

- Ruffalo asks Leo how he's doing.
- Leo says that something is going on here.
- Ruffalo shakes his head to the doctors, thinking Leo's regressed.
- Leo sees the doctors coming to round him up. He then says the "live as a monster" line.
- That line suddenly makes Ruffalo think that Leo might be faking. As Leo walks off, Ruffalo says, "Teddy?" as if he doesn't know if who he was just talking to.
- The officers approach Leo and he doesn't act violently. He walks on his own, accepting his fate.

I was just wondering if I missed something in those final moments. This is the type of movie where your head is spinning still from the mindfuck of the last 5-10 minutes that I wanted to make sure that it was indeed as ambiguous an ending as I felt it was.

The final shot of the lighthouse, just lingering as the score played us out, was a nice touch.

is the discussion with Noyce in Ward C. The whole thing about him being out and then being put back in jail would make it seem like Leo's story was real. Would they have coached him to say that? Or when he said "put back in" was he referring to Ward C rather than the Island?

... Noyce was mad about being put back in Ward C after Andrew beat him up in a conflict. Kingsley says that's why Noyce was so beat up and why he kept saying "you did this to me" to Andrew. The stretch that has to be made is that somewhere, the name George Noyce sank into Andrew's brain and became part of his fantasy.

I don't remember the details of the conversation. I'd have to watch it again. But I wonder if there was ever anything said by Noyce specifically about getting off the island. He does say something like "I got out. You don't get out twice," but that could be interpreted as Ward C, not Shutter Island itself.

Unabridged audio transcription FTW!

Too bad I don't remember much of the details of this chapter from the film, save Kelly Leak looking emaciated and pretty fucked up...

This will include some of the passages from book (© Dennis Lehane)... whole passages will have the ">" and"<" marks around them... Colin Powell it if you must...


When Noyce first calls out Teddy's real last name, Teddy thinks that it's "not Laeddis' voice, definitely not, but one that seemed familiar just the same," but when he shines the match on Noyce and Noyce looks at him for the first time, Teddy thinks, "no, not Laeddis, not anyone he knew."

Noyce says that Teddy failed him, promised that he'd "be free of this place," that he lied, that he was supposed to save him, reminds Teddy of all the conversations they had, then they argue a bit about what "this" was really about... Noyce hints that Teddy lied when Teddy told him that he was going to do something to "expose" something (presumably the entire institution)... and when Teddy starts to say that "this" was about "the truth... exposing--" Noyce cuts him off and says, "This is about YOU. And Laeddis. This is all it's ever been about. I was incidental. I was a way in."

Then Noyce walks toward Teddy... and Teddy asks who did the facial to him. "YOU did this..." Then Noyce gets closer: "All your talk. All your fucking talk, and I'm back in here, because of you."

Then Lehane writes, "Teddy remembered the last time he'd seen him in the visiting room at the prison." Noyce then says that Teddy never wanted to expose this place:

>"George," Teddy said, keeping his voice low, calm, "that's not true... No. What do you think I've spent the last two years of my life planning for? This. Now. Right here."<

Noyce disagrees, saying Teddy only spent the last two years "planning to kill, that's all. Kill Laeddis, that's your fucking game. And look where it got me. Here. Back here. I can't take it here. I can't take this fucking horror house, do you hear me? Not again. Not again. Not again."

Teddy asks George how "they" got to him: "they can't just come into a prison and pluck you out. There have to be transfer orders, there have to be psychiatric consultations. Files, George, paperwork."

George spits in Teddy's face, then says that Cawley's specialty is treating men with a history of violence, that the institution consists mainly of patients with felonies from all over the country, which is why no one bothered to look over his transfer papers. Then he says that he's "never getting out now. I got out once. Not twice. Never twice."

Teddy asks again how "they" got to George, who replies:

>"They knew. Don't you get it? Everything you were up to. Your whole plan. This is a game. A handsomely-mounted stage play. All this... is for you."

"They threw in a hurricane just for me, huh? Neat trick... explain that... Let's relax with the paranoia, okay?"

"Been alone much?" Noyce said... "Alone. Have you ever been alone since this whole thing started?"

Teddy said, "All the time."

George cocked one eyebrow. "COMPLETELY alone?"

"Well, my partner--"

"And who's your partner?"

Teddy jerked a thumb back up the cell block. "His name's Chuck. He's--"

"Let me guess," Noyce said. "You never worked with him before, have you?

Teddy felt the cell block around him. The bones in his upper arms felt cold. For a moment he was unable to speak, as if his brain had forgotten how to connect with his tongue. Then he said, "He's a U.S. Marshal from the Seattle--"

"YOU'VE NEVER WORKED WITH HIM BEFORE, HAVE YOU?"

Teddy said, "That's irrelevant, I know men, I know this guy. I trust him.... I trust him.... That's the only way I know how to put it."

Noyce looked at him sadly through the steel tubing. "Then they've already won."<


Then Noyce begs Teddy to not let them take him to the lighthouse, and Teddy says he's going to get Noyce out of there:

>Teddy remembered that last time they'd met in the visitor's room. And George had said, "If I ever had to go back to that place I'd kill myself." And Teddy had said, "That's not going to happen." A lie, apparently. Because here Noyce was: beaten, broken, shaken with fear.<


Teddy then promises George again that he will come back for him, but Noyce tells him that "You can't kill Laeddis and expose the truth at the same time. You have to make a choice. You understand that, don't you?"

But Teddy asks where Laeddis is. And when Noyce repeatedly asks Teddy if he understands that he has to make a choice, Teddy only says that he "won't kill anyone," and Lehane writes that Teddy would agree to "bury his vendetta (against Laeddis), put it aside" if it meant getting "this terrible victim (Noyce) home." Noyce then tells Teddy that "She's dead. Let her go."

And at that moment, Teddy has a memory of Rachel.

>"Let her go." Noyce had said.

"I can't." Teddy said....

"Then you'll never leave this island."

Teddy said nothing, and Noyce said, "He was transferred out of Ward C. If he's not in Ward B, there's only one place he can be." He waited until Teddy got it. "The lighthouse." Teddy said. Noyce nodded, and the final match went out.<


Teddy leaves shortly thereafter.



It's times like these that I wish I had a copy of the movie in front of me... damn you, Paramount, for moving this movie up to now, thus preventing me from getting a screener (hypothetically)...

And yo, there's a lot going on here for this to just be a simple pulp story... later I'll transcribe the very last scene of the book...

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"Nope, he regressed, it didn't work, we will have to lobotomize him"

I never once considered that the head shake meant anything but that.

Me and my friends were debating it on the way home.


I say he was crazy the whole time. If he didn't really kill his wife, he wouldn't have had that dream towards the beginning where she was bleeding from the midsection.

She was always bleeding and wet, which doesn't fit, especially since he said the smoke got her. (He also stressed that that was how she died; she didn't suffer) Kingsley's character knew "Baby, why are you wet?" And it was a coincidence that his name was an anagram of the killers? The film was smart not to answer the question definitely because, as Lost has taught us, you can get a lot more mileage out of ambiguity than a legit definitive answer.

For me, the question was whether or not he had regressed or not at the end. (And I like to think that he did but there's no way of knowing.)

I jokingly told my friend coming out of the film that it's a giant analogy about the government being behind 9/11. But yeah it just seems too ridiculous to be he was crazy this whole time. I mean the only character that I found that could support that whole story was Max von Sydow's character, since he seemed to be analyzing him the whole time and knowing more than he should. I mean the patient writing "run" in his booklet makes no sense, whether she's crazy or not.

But my guess is that the hospital found out that he was investigating them, lured him in and tried to get rid of him.

I thought Leo's last line made it pretty obvious that he hadn't regressed. Saying that showed he knew the difference between fantasy and reality. And I don't think there's any way they give him a lobotomy when he is clearly living in reality.

And I think he was crazy the whole time. Ruffalo having trouble with his holster was a hint. The one thing I can think of that doesn't add up is that lady writing "RUN" in his notepad.

>And I think he was crazy the whole time. Ruffalo having
>trouble with his holster was a hint. The one thing I can think
>of that doesn't add up is that lady writing "RUN" in his
>notepad.

As soon as the movie was over, I started to review some of the clues to whether or not he was crazy or not.

The part where they came to the island at the begininng was particularly telling. When they first met with the guards at the dock, they all had this aggressive stance, holding on to their guns. I thought that was a nice touch, because at the end, you know why... This dude was a crazy-ass patient that they let out for this role-playing stunt.

I can't wait to view the movie again to catch more clues like this leading to the reveal.

Good stuff!


...

my thoughts,

peace.

hint?

Ruffalo was a doctor not a Marshall, so of course he wouldn't be savvy with a hostler.

No message

V.

LOVED the score, all of the performances were top notch. Went into this with kinda low expectations, I was wrong.

LEO, is very, very, very convincing! WoW.
A+

I won't even front... I didnt see that coming at the end... I definitely should have but did not... I like how they plant seeds along the way that make u believe you think you know what's going on, like the one patient making ruffalo get the water so she can write run, which made me believe Ruffalo was the other Dr. I just was way off as to what his purpose really was... I wanna see it again

does any1 know what the purpose of the band-aid was? He has it on the whole time until he finally wakes up at the end and it is off...

Searching around the internet it is fun to read the debate of him being crazy or not... I am 50/50 personally...

To believe he was crazy the whole time is odd due to the fact that they would have had to coach these crazy people he interviewed to lie about Rachel, which is hard to believe, and also that the whole cave scene was in his head... The one clue you look back on is when Sheehan can't even get a gun out of it's holster, at that point it shouldve been clear he was not a marshall


Of course more logic points to the fact he really was crazy but it's unreal how they give you so many clues in both directions

i'm wondering if it was from the pummeling he gave Noyce
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

The whole idea that they would put up a two day role playing exercise for the whole camp is kind of silly but to believe that he was crazy the whole time requires WAY too much suspension of disbelief. In the end, Kingsley's intake form on Leo goes on and on about how smart and inventive Leo is which I think was used to explain the Rachel delusion. It makes more sense that that wasn't real; she's running around the island, climbing on those rocks with no shoes? And in the end, there was a real Solando who escaped and they used it to get Teddy on the island at which point they created a fake Solando to... fuck with Teddy?

The beginning also would make no sense. Leo and Ruffalo are basically the only two on the ferry and they don't meet beforehand? He meets his new partner on the boat? And if Ruffalo wasn't his partner, where was his new partner? They just sent him off alone?

And then there's the blood and water from his first visions with his wife, which shouldn't have been there, as well as "Baby, why are you all wet?" which Leo said once and Kinsley somehow knew.

The story is silly as it is but you almost have to be crazy to believe he wasn't.

Yes, the explanations might be lame but everything in the "He was crazy" angle can be explained.

As for the "He wasn't crazy", you have tons of holes and have to just start making up fan fiction or suspend disbelief to incredible lengths in order to support them. I don't think there's any way to explain away the anagram of the names or the fact that his wife was wet and bleeding in the first visions.

Either way it was a shit movie with some good visuals.

Because it sounds like a fairly loyal adaptation of the novel.

But yes,
I do think the story was no good.

My issues with book to movie adaptations and twist endings and whatnot are subjects for other days though.

>To believe he was crazy the whole time is odd due to the fact
>that they would have had to coach these crazy people he
>interviewed to lie about Rachel, which is hard to believe, and
>also that the whole cave scene was in his head... The one clue
>you look back on is when Sheehan can't even get a gun out of
>it's holster, at that point it shouldve been clear he was not
>a marshall

I mean, they address that immediately afterward. He even knows they've been coached... he just doesn't know about what.

I do like the idea that some of it was real, and while he was crazy, he was onto certain things. The end shot of the lighthouse can absolutely be interpreted as an implication that they really do lobotomies there. I'd just need to see it again to look for hints as to what might be real, since most of it is obviously a fabrication.

i think people may have missed the background dialogue immediately after leo gets back from the cave. the doc and some patients had just come out of a meeting and he asks leo where he's been. leo says he's been walking around, checking out the island. well, in that scene you see the two patients he interviewed earlier and if you listen and watch you can see there confusion at seeing him again. specifically the lady that axed her husband and wrote "run" says "i don't remember what i'm supposed to remember anymore." she's talking about what she's supposed to remember about leo and what they coached her to say and believe.

GOT DAMN can Leo climb some rocks.

As for Ruffalos head shake, I took it as NOPE we didnt convince him hes crazy yet. But the dreams makes no sense if he isnt crazy so I guess I have to reevaluate my conclusion.


Really liked it tho.

Lehane is whats hot in the streets.

>GOT DAMN can Leo climb some rocks.
>

haha i was thinkin the same thing. The was some steep ass cliffs he was climbin down, and then back up, w/out even breakin a sweat

... the four names-- two invented, two real, two sets of anagrams.

Zoo said it's more detailed in the book, which I'm inclined to believe.

And I was thinking it even before we got to the big lighthouse scene, where the homage became even more blatant.

Many parallels, visually and thematically. No, it's not as good as Vertigo. But clearly Scorsese found that the story had a lot in common.

Though of course, at the end of Vertigo, it turns out it WAS all a game. This is the "What if?" ending, lol.

But not as good.

...Patricia Clarkson as the second Rachel Solando. We saw that Emily Mortimer was a nurse but was she really a figment of his imagination. Everything else was somewhat based in reality and can be explained except her.

because I doubt the nurse could really just put on a show like that...

no way he was making that up in his head after Cawley said she had returned and brought him into see her... that whole scene doesnt add up with the ending

crying and wyling out

...Mortimer was both the nurse and someone playing Solando. Cawley had coached her to act out Laedes' fantasy. The only thing that was in his head was Patricia Clarkson as the second Solando: she was indeed a halluncination, the result of him being off his medication for a few days.

From what I understand about the book, that's how it played as well. They only thing they didn't plan/expect him to do was climb down the face of the cliff.

rachel #1/nurse were real. she was coached to say those things in that scene. rachel #2 in the cave was a hallucination.

they coach a nurse to act her ass off like that? cmon

Andrew Laeddis was Robert De Niro? I can't be. It actually took Googling to find out it wasn't. I was 100% sure...dude looked like Travis Bickle.

It was good overall. Not great, but I enjoyed it.

When I saw Laeddis in the preview I thought he was either played by Elias Koteas (who actually played him) or Chris Meloni (the two have an odd resmeblance to me). But with the make-up/scars and such, Laeddis did definitely resemble DeNiro in "Frankenstein."

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i IMDBed Shutter Island before i even saw it, then IMDBed Robert De Niro just in case I missed it. it wasn't until i actually saw the movie that i realized it was actually casey jones/elias koteas.

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didn't plan to, but two different groups of friends that i hung out with today wanted to see it so i just went.

anyway, the second time through i enjoyed it more because knowing how things would play out i realized how well scorcese and crew did presenting the story. there are hints to his insanity all throughout.

also, leo went in. there is literally not one scene in the movie that he is not in and he kills every minute.

Man, that shit with his wife makes me hope I would catch something that serious earlier than he did.

I read the book a while ago, and if I remember correctly, Teddy refused to accept "reality," or rather, wasn't able to...

I read an article w/the screenwriter in which she said she wanted to include the element of choice in the film adaptation.

When I first finished watching the movie, I felt it was presented as if the experiment didn't take. I didn't pick up on Teddy making any kind of choice. It was pointed out to me that Teddy chose to be lobotomized by faking a relapse.

This makes sense when I reflect upon his question to Chuck(Ruffalo) about dying a good man or living a monster.

My only question is, if he wanted to be lobotomized, why even fake being "cured" in the first place? Just to see if he could deal with living w/reality and he found out he coudn't handle it?

Was it obvious to those who've seen it that he faked his relapse?

the 2 day role play that the doctor conceived worked, he was cured and snapped back to reality. he faked the relapse at the end. the line toward chuck was the key. he said "this place makes me wonder, would it be better to live as a monster or die as a good man." in other words, live as a crazy guy that is prone to physical violence and a threat to people around him or to die as a decent guy that dedicated his life to helping people and solving crimes and a tragic victim of his wife's actions?

he made the choice to be lobotomized because after being given a day to think things through dude realized that he couldn't go on living after the stuff that happened to him. either off himself or have them make it so he was a zombie and care anymore.

>I read an article w/the screenwriter in which she said she
>wanted to include the element of choice in the film
>adaptation.
>
>When I first finished watching the movie, I felt it was
>presented as if the experiment didn't take. I didn't pick up
>on Teddy making any kind of choice. It was pointed out to me
>that Teddy chose to be lobotomized by faking a relapse.
>
>This makes sense when I reflect upon his question to
>Chuck(Ruffalo) about dying a good man or living a monster.
>
>My only question is, if he wanted to be lobotomized, why even
>fake being "cured" in the first place? Just to see if he
>could deal with living w/reality and he found out he coudn't
>handle it?
>
>Was it obvious to those who've seen it that he faked his
>relapse?

>the 2 day role play that the doctor conceived worked, he was
>cured and snapped back to reality. he faked the relapse at the
>end. the line toward chuck was the key. he said "this place
>makes me wonder, would it be better to live as a monster or
>die as a good man." in other words, live as a crazy guy that
>is prone to physical violence and a threat to people around
>him or to die as a decent guy that dedicated his life to
>helping people and solving crimes and a tragic victim of his
>wife's actions?

While I read "die as a good man" the same, I read "live as a monster" as him continuing on in the real world burdened with the cognizance and guilt of losing his family.

I just re-read what I wrote...I see your point...I blame the stupidity on environmental racism

If he had "faked" being cured, there couldn't have been a faked relapse, b/c he wouldn't have any state to relapse to...you can't relapse from crazy to crazy...

Best movie I've seen in a while ..


Chosen me choses you.

and why did they let him blow up the car? what did he put in the tie?

little long. getting bored in the middle, perked up at the end. i think i liked it.

just realized just now his daughter was in the pile at the nazi camp, right?

The rat symbolizes obviousness. © Ralph Wiggum

Some very vague spoilers to follow:







-I think the majority of the Nazi stuff could go. Just a bit is enough to get us to get wary of Max von Sydow. The dreams in general could have been shorter and had even more impact.

-I'm undecided whether the movies imperviousness to plot hole poking is a good thing or bad thing. The odd cuts and abrupt transitions also have their own built-in defense. A 2nd viewing is probably necessary t determine if this is brilliant or just too-cute-by-half.

-The cast was great. Emily Mortimer was too pretty/prominent for that role, though.

-Personally, I loved the ride in the car with the warden. Acknowledgement that some of the craziest motherfuckers you will meet are people in power.

-I always try to give Marty the benefit of the doubt, but it's like he can't make a movie without drop an N-bomb.

-They really did lobotomize people with a fucking ice pick through the eye like that back then. The history of psychiatry is deeply disturbing.

plays in why he killed his wife and why he snapped. As they mentioned in the film there was a traumatic incident in the past that leads folks to snap. That was his traumatic incident pre wife killing his children. It wouldn't have seem as important if they had cut those scenes down.

Shit happens

i think the nazi scenes were important, but i think the traumatic event that they are referring to IS when his kids are killed and he kills his wife. THAT is what made him snap and go crazy creating a new reality for himself. him being in the war vs the nazis did not make him shoot his wife.

we did not see the same movie.

Overall, it was good, but very flawed.

It was too long, SO long that by the time the reveal came at the end, I didn't care.

Also, the story was too convoluted, and the doctor allowing such an involved experiment doesn't seem believable.

Also, I don't understand how or when he got off the island in the first place.

Finally - the ending? Eh. Too vague.

i'm curious to what you think.

>Overall, it was good, but very flawed.
>
>It was too long, SO long that by the time the reveal came at
>the end, I didn't care.
>
>Also, the story was too convoluted, and the doctor allowing
>such an involved experiment doesn't seem believable.
>
>Also, I don't understand how or when he got off the island in
>the first place.

and why do you think he ever got off the island in the 2 years he was there?

>Finally - the ending? Eh. Too vague.

uhh, what about it was vague?

>>Also, I don't understand how or when he got off the island
>in
>>the first place.
>
>and why do you think he ever got off the island in the 2 years
>he was there?

I think he's referring to the opening. How did Leo get on the boat headed to the island?

I think if you view that scene as one that actually happened (not a delusion), then it was just the initial "scene" of the big role play experiment. They drug him, and he wakes up on the ferry headed over, throws up as he goes through his meds withdrawal, and meets his partner for the first time.

Or you could interpret the role-playing experiment as much more limited--clearly not everything we see (the storm, the climb down the cliffs) actually happen. Maybe they just give Leo bits and pieces of role playing this stuff and he fills in the rest in his head.

Either way, there's no literal getting off the island for him.

>I think he's referring to the opening. How did Leo get on the
>boat headed to the island?
>
>I think if you view that scene as one that actually happened
>(not a delusion), then it was just the initial "scene" of the
>big role play experiment. They drug him, and he wakes up on
>the ferry headed over, throws up as he goes through his meds
>withdrawal, and meets his partner for the first time.


^^^ This will be called "fan fiction," but it's most likely and logically correct. The viewer could reasonably assume that the drug that knocked him out in the middle of the film was also given to him before the film began. Of course, Scorsese and Laeta Kalogridis -- and by extension, Lehane -- respect the audience too much to cheat and show this moment, even later in the film when everything is revealed.

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>
>>>Also, I don't understand how or when he got off the island
>>in
>>>the first place.
>>
>>and why do you think he ever got off the island in the 2
>years
>>he was there?
>
>I think he's referring to the opening. How did Leo get on the
>boat headed to the island?
>
>I think if you view that scene as one that actually happened
>(not a delusion), then it was just the initial "scene" of the
>big role play experiment. They drug him, and he wakes up on
>the ferry headed over, throws up as he goes through his meds
>withdrawal, and meets his partner for the first time.

i figured he was referring to the opening, but i thought that after the reveal everyone would come to the conclusion that they placed him on the boat as the start of the role play. i don't see how else it would make sense.

Too long:

Much of the middle part drags. The entire sequence when Leo is in the catacombs and runs into RORSCHAC could be way shorter. Also, the WWII stuff seemed unecessary for the story.

Too convoluted:

I didn't buy one of the major premises of the movie, which is that the doctor would stage such a complicated and convoluted play act just to try and cure this guy.

Vague ending:

At the end, I came away not knowing whether he was actually crazy or not. From a movie going experience, that was little putting the head in, but not really getting to fuck.

I hate movies like that.

>Too long:
>
>Much of the middle part drags. The entire sequence when Leo is
>in the catacombs and runs into RORSCHAC could be way shorter.
>Also, the WWII stuff seemed unecessary for the story.

i can see that, but i enjoyed that scene. i never felt the movie too long at all, even during a 2nd viewing.

>Too convoluted:
>
>I didn't buy one of the major premises of the movie, which is
>that the doctor would stage such a complicated and convoluted
>play act just to try and cure this guy.

but he didn't do it JUST to cure this guy. he was doing it because his case was one that was at the forefront of the non-surgery vs. surgery debate that was going on in the psych field. that's why the doc kept mentioning that all through the movie. plus this is fiction so you have to let that play.

>Vague ending:
>
>At the end, I came away not knowing whether he was actually
>crazy or not. From a movie going experience, that was little
>putting the head in, but not really getting to fuck.
>
>I hate movies like that.

i didn't think it was vague. i took it pretty clearly that he was NOT crazy. the line "this place makes me wonder, is it better to live as a monster or die as a good man?" would not make any sort of sense if he was still crazy. too out of place. it does make sense to me, however, if he were sane and was tipping rufalo's character off.

First, when did too vague become a criticism? folks really like the storyline spoon fed to them like that?

Secondly, I don't even think this ending was very vague at all. If I had a criticism to the ending it would be that they spoonfeed Leo's decision at the end.

**********
"Play Your Game" (c) Stan Van Gundy

All the other criticism here were dead on (sagged in the middle). Only thing I would add is that it seems to me that the master of cinema that is Scorsese kind of missed out on the dozen other movies & tv shows of the past 15 years with the same twist. I didn't so much mind seeing it coming, but I would expect that Scorcese knows that we were going to see it coming and he could have play with the audience more regarding that expectation. For example, it would have been more of a surprise to the audience if it turned out that he wasn't crazy.

**********
"Play Your Game" (c) Stan Van Gundy

i saw the ending coming from MILES away. i would have been way more surprised if he had turned out not to be crazy, to have never been an inmate.

That "Down With The Sickness" song underneath, and "with a twist that'll BLOW YOUR MIND!" would make me not wanna see it.

... and it leads to "it sucked cause it was boring and wasn't scary plus I could see the twist coming" reviews (not necessarily on PTP)

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and its all due to that new trailer

I feel inclined to take careful inventory of what's going on to figure out what everything means, and then at the end you learn some of it was real and some of it wasn't, without any way to really distinguish what was what.

Plus, I'm just not a fan of defining mental illness in whichever way you want so you can build a movie around it.

Let me down with the ending, but overstood the plot and loved the whole "it never happened" explanation..

Spoiler






This story is about how a personal trauma evolves into government induced psychosis. Operation Paperclip+ MKUltra= Shutter Island.


Grade B+

Mark Ruffalo's character gets her a drink of water, then she takes a rigourous sip of *nothing at all*, then in the next cut slams an empty water cup on the table.

Then a few cuts later the cup is half full on the table.

What in the fuck was that?

I saw it twice, I'm not mistaken. Maybe this means that after a day and a half without meds he was already tripping balls, hallucinating, and as such maybe she didn't write "run" in his notebook after all?

That would help to explain one of the harder to explain bits of the film.

Anyhow, dope film, holds up on a second viewing. I'd give it an A-. Jackie (motha fuckin') Earle Haley and the Warden are excellent, Mark Ruffalo was unrecognizable. Good performances all around actually.

I was reading some people in this thread saying that some of the shots were Kubrick-esque and my mental reaction was "have these people even seen a Kubrick film?", but on second viewing I can see it for sure, especially the helicopter shot of the jeep taking Leo and Ruffalo to the Asylum for the first time.

real cup in the next scene I just assumed the cup was out of the frame.

And I thought it was weird the other guy mentioned a glass of water too.

i said something to my friend when i saw that seen. i was like "did she just drink air?"

When they first go into the Kinsley's office.

out of a meeting?

Did anyone think that it was a group meeting to discuss all the acting they were all doing? Like to make sure everyone was on the same page?

i mentioned it there. the coaching is more obvious if you cue in on the background dialogue.

I half-enjoyed it.

But the line, "and what we did was set up the most elaborate role-play in psychiatry history" was just unbelievably badly thought out. I mean it was Simpsons-esque in taking the piss out of itself. Sure it wasn't a believable twist, but at least don't admit as much!

First off, the look was amazing....just beautifully beautifully shot. The sets and cinematography, an absolute master-class.

The performances were outstanding through and through.

Just such an atmospheric piece, and the score made it that much more so, so well done.

Story wise.....my gut feeling was telling me, as we progressed through the movie, that he might just be a patient at this place, but I still had a doubt in the back of my mind based off his conversation with the 'real' Rachel in the cave that they would try to convince him he was a patient there. Having the movie so fresh in my mind, there are so many little details that fit into the jigsaw of his insanity.....I will still go back and watch it again, knowing what I know now.

The conversation with Noice was imo the best part of the movie, until the last 5 mins. Just an amazing scene, and having re-read the dialogue that Zoo posted above, it's even better.

The final lines and ultimate twist with Leo basically admitting he hadn't relapsed and would rather be lobotomized than live with his past, and Ruffalo wobbling on his stance with that 'Teddy?' line....then the final shot of the lighthouse with the piercing score, great twist and finish.

There are a couple faults that are valid imo....the pacing def took a hit in the middle, and you could have cut or shortened some of the Germany scenes without losing their impact on the movie. Secondly, that nurse must have been one helluva cotdamn actor to give that performance in the room lol.

In all, one of the best atmospheric pieces that I have ever seen....capped off by excellent performances, a complete jigsaw storyline, and an ending that I will not forget.

>Story wise.....my gut feeling was telling me, as we progressed
>through the movie, that he might just be a patient at this
>place, but I still had a doubt in the back of my mind based
>off his conversation with the 'real' Rachel in the cave that
>they would try to convince him he was a patient there.


That's what threw me off my intial suspicions I had from jump as well.

or to die as a good man?

That piece of dialog sealed the deal. The film has so much subtleties and exposition that it's hard to say it's flawed. Whether or not certain events happen or it was all in Leo's head, Scorsese did an excellent job executing those notions. The score's brilliant and it actually pays off of whether things were real or not. My only complaint was it felt a bit long, it's not that bad, but I felt the revisiting of WWII stuff in some sequences were a bit much, also the dreams he has of his wife. Overall it's a good thriller even though I figured out the twist from the first viewing of the trailer.
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The one in the final 2 mins of the movie?

I don't know if knowing he's the patience was suppose to be a twist or the last 2 minutes of the film was, but I'm talking about him being a patient. The final 2 minutes was just icing on the cake.

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Completely holds up and gives you an entirely new experience.
So far contending to be one of the year's best.

I am now forcing all of my family members to watch it...Clockwork Orange style if need be.

He may be a pillar of cinema but his necessary use of the word nigger in his "contextually appropriate" films is a sticking point and reason enough for me to disregard his artistic merit in favor of my Blackness.

I don't see how Spike Lee worships Marty and gives him a pass, but gets in everyone else's shit.

Fuck a Scorcese.

you're not allowed to post about that here. obviously Marty has no racist motives, and including the n-word was a big part of establishing 1950's racial tension in a mental ward. /sarcasm

anyway, I can only imagine how awkward his use of his favorite racial slur will be in his next picture. Gangs of New York, you kind of tilted your head a little. The Departed opening -- hard eyebrow raise. Shutter Island, it's like you're almost shocked to why it had to be in there.

the final half hour was a reveal that M. Night Shyamalan would get roasted for (I realize it was based on a book). having Leo actually choose between revealing a Nazi testing conspiracy and avenging his dead wife would've been a better story to me.

I didn't mind the length (and I usually hate longer movies), there was some good scenes and performances, but the payoff just didn't match. Leo was the one who was crazy! OOOH! and then the "wink to the audience" choice of him admitting that fact, yet nobly trudging to his lobotomy as his fictional self. *shrug*.

I mean my head was literally pounding after it ended because it toyed with me visually and mentally.

"Shutter Island" was very effective in the cinematography and character development, for sure. I actually can't wait to watch it again and pick up some of the pieces I missed the first time through. Another good thing is that Scorsese always seems to bring out the best in Leonardo DiCaprio - an actor who I can say is already consistently excellent.

The ending was both well-done and a cop-out. One the "pills" were pulled out, it immediately popped in my head what was probably *really* going on. Once you've seen a few of these kinds of movies, you start to notice they usually point to the truth. That was really enough alone to get me to what the ending revealed - and I'm a pretty shallow movie watcher. Instead of trying to guess what was going on, though, I blocked my mind from going so that I could just enjoy the ride. Good choice.

All-in-all, I liked the movie but it didn't have me on the edge of my seat like Scorsese's last masterpiece, "The Departed," did. The fact that it's based on a novel (which I didn't know) I'm sure has quite a bit to do with that. I do feel I'll like it even more the next time.

"Shutter Island" isn't a movie I'd turn on when I have nothing else to do on a Sunday afternoon, however. It was a pretty heavy experience for me.

it was fun, but i wouldn't put it in the 'great' category.