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Topic subjectLet's Reload The Whole Matrix trilogy
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=23&topic_id=5684
5684, Let's Reload The Whole Matrix trilogy
Posted by Mau777, Sat Nov-08-03 03:32 PM
Let's make this greatest Sci-Fi flick(s)of all time, since the Wachowskis failed to do so.

Give it new directors...a new cast...a new script writer...rewrite scenes...give it new dialogue...new ending...etc.

How would YOU have done this film?

Have fun with it folks.


5685, Director - Tsui Hark
Posted by Mau777, Sat Nov-08-03 03:35 PM
.
5686, more monica
Posted by ricky_BUTLER, Sat Nov-08-03 03:39 PM
no keanu and somebody else beside two dudes overdosing on junior college philosophy to write the dialogue.
5687, Who though?
Posted by Mau777, Sun Nov-09-03 03:05 AM
?
5688, oh you wanted answers?
Posted by ricky_BUTLER, Sun Nov-09-03 09:43 AM
direct: christopher nolan
write: alex proyas
star: joaquin phoenix

and monica bellucci as the answer to the request for "more monica."
5689, Get lose wit it...
Posted by Mau777, Sun Nov-09-03 02:43 PM
...like I know you can. What elements would you/they add and/or subtract?
5690, If done from scratch
Posted by BigReg, Sat Nov-08-03 04:19 PM
Director-David Fincher
Writer- Darrern Aronofsky

However, the quick Reggie Re-edit a la the infamous starwars Phantom Edit: Keep Matrix as is, combine Reloaded/Revolutions.

Reloaded:

Cut out Zion out into a five minute introduction. Basically no rave, no long speeches, no Trinity/Neo heart to hearts. No meeting in the Matrix where he meets the new Agents.

Fastfoward to him meeting the Oracle and Seraph. Imho, only perfect segment in the whole film. This should take place within the first fifteen minutes of the movie.

Cut the Burly Brawl in half(till he picks up the stopsign, thats when the playstation graphics REALLY get out of hand). Leaving this in strictly for the action junkies, and to set up the big Agent Smith Fight in the end.

Keep the Merovingian scene, it was entertaining.

Cut the Highwayscene in half(no Neo fighting those dudes at the entrance of the mansion, strictly the car chase and thats cause thats the last time your gonna really see Morpheus).

Get to the Architect. Cut his speech in half, should still be confusing, but the only real important revelation he should give is about the past neo's. Also, no extra bullshit about the building exploding, him saving Trinity in the end, etc. Basically keep the bare minimum to keep the Keymaker character in the script(thus, keeping the highway scene important), and make it so that the Architect is the big plottwist in the middle of the movie

Ending stays the same, he jacks out of the Matrix, they get under attack, he passes out.

ALSO: Note no mention of agent Smith crossing over to the real world. I actually liked that part in the series, but as usual its another unanswered question, and too much of a side story to handle in this streamlined version. Also, alot of side story's will be cut out, including the dude from OZ. Only side story in Zion id keep the kid's story, because i thought his scenes were important in Revolutions in showcasing the war.

HALFWAY POINT OF THE MOVIE, BEGINNING OF REVOLUTIONS

Keep the Neo scenes in the train limbo, keep the fighting scenes with seraph(cut most of the second Merovingian scene since it was basically his same lines repeated from Reloaded, also possibly add a longer fight scene to the one actually inside the club since its going to be the last real wire-cgi-fu fight before the dragonball Z esque ending).

Neo wakes up, and grabs the ship for the machine city. From this point on the movies going to be basically two major plotlines, jumping between them. Neo travelling to the Machine City, a MUCH quicker death scene from Trinity, and the final dragonball Z fight. This is interspersed with the final human fight, so while Neo's flying to the Machine City, they are preparing. When Neo's fighting Smith, your suppose to get the impression that the war in Zion is happening at the same time.

The ending id leave the same.


Summery:
Less Zion Bullshit.

You get four major fight scenes(streamlined Burly Brawl, streamlined Highway Chase, Longer S&M Club fight, Same Superman final fight).

You get your plottwist, in a smaller, leaner Architect scene.

Pacing would be fine.

It wouldn't be great, character development would take a major hit(however, its not like the sequels had ANY character development whatsoever). But whats left is one lean mean action movie machine.

5691, RE: If done from scratch
Posted by FuriousFreddy, Sat Nov-08-03 06:15 PM
There might be a few problems with this set-up tho; actually a lot. After seing Revolutions and thinging about everything for a while, I see WHY they made two movies and also why certain side stories were done in other media (animes and the video game) Other wise, Reloaded would have needed to be at least three hours long to get all the Osiris message drop-off, pick-up, and retrieval points across...

>Director-David Fincher
>Writer- Darrern Aronofsky
>
>However, the quick Reggie Re-edit a la the infamous starwars
>Phantom Edit: Keep Matrix as is, combine
>Reloaded/Revolutions.
>
>Reloaded:
>
>Cut out Zion out into a five minute introduction. Basically
>no rave, no long speeches, no Trinity/Neo heart to hearts.
>No meeting in the Matrix where he meets the new Agents.

That scene serves as important exposition to set up the fact that the machines are digging. I'm guessing that's the only part you'd leave in. But cutting out hte Zion scenes and the Neo/ Trinity heart to hearts would destroy a lot of the major themes of the last two films, including:

-What made Neo different from his predecessors: the fact that he was in love with Trinity. That needs to be established and built upon. Thus, the heart-to-hearts, the sex scene, and the suplot revolving Neo seing visions of her death.

-Link and Zee's relationship, which serves to give us reference points to relate to both the Zion battle and the race back to Zion in Revolutions

-The fact that the Zionites acknowledge and celebrate their humanity; hence, the dance scene ("rave")

>Fastfoward to him meeting the Oracle and Seraph. Imho, only
>perfect segment in the whole film. This should take place
>within the first fifteen minutes of the movie.

-They needed time to find the message from the Oracle (which is what you have to do in the game)
>
>Cut the Burly Brawl in half(till he picks up the stopsign,
>thats when the playstation graphics REALLY get out of hand).
> Leaving this in strictly for the action junkies, and to
>set up the big Agent Smith Fight in the end.

-It definitely could have been tightened; either by editing or re-animating certain shots with better texturing and cloth animation so that it doesn't scream "CGI!" (why didn't they get Square USA, who did "Final Flight of the Osiris" to work on that scene (at least on lighting, texturing, cloth animation, and rendering if nothing else)?

>Keep the Merovingian scene, it was entertaining.
>

>Cut the Highwayscene in half(no Neo fighting those dudes at
>the entrance of the mansion,

-That was one of my favortie parts!

strictly the car chase and
>thats cause thats the last time your gonna really see
>Morpheus).
>
>Get to the Architect. Cut his speech in half, should still
>be confusing, but the only real important revelation he
>should give is about the past neo's.

-He also has to discuss the other 5 Matricies from the past and the fact that Trinity is going to die and there is nothing Nweo can do about it (because, in Revolutions, she will...)

Also, no extra
>bullshit about the building exploding, him saving Trinity in
>the end, etc. Basically keep the bare minimum to keep the
>Keymaker character in the script(thus, keeping the highway
>scene important), and make it so that the Architect is the
>big plottwist in the middle of the movie

-plottwists like that don't always do well in the direct midle of a movie, which is probably why there were two movies to begin with; so that the plot twist comes at the end of one film and causes us to be confused and anxious to see the second film over the five-month interim

>
>Ending stays the same, he jacks out of the Matrix, they get
>under attack, he passes out.
>
>ALSO: Note no mention of agent Smith crossing over to the
>real world. I actually liked that part in the series, but as
>usual its another unanswered question, and too much of a
>side story to handle in this streamlined version.

But Bane-Smoth was trhe one who blinds Neo, so that he learns to see without seeing (read: the third eye)

Also,
>alot of side story's will be cut out, including the dude
>from OZ.

see above for why not to cut dude from OZ or Zee's story out of the film; especially since he's the NEb's operator...we need exposition to get to know him since he's a new character in a semi-major role and to find out what the hell happened to Tank (Zee tells us that he died during one of the Neb's missions between Matrix 1 and Reloaded)

Only side story in Zion id keep the kid's story,
>because i thought his scenes were important in Revolutions
>in showcasing the war.
>
>HALFWAY POINT OF THE MOVIE, BEGINNING OF REVOLUTIONS
>
>Keep the Neo scenes in the train limbo, keep the fighting
>scenes with seraph(cut most of the second Merovingian scene
>since it was basically his same lines repeated from
>Reloaded, also possibly add a longer fight scene to the one
>actually inside the club since its going to be the last real
>wire-cgi-fu fight before the dragonball Z esque ending).
>
>Neo wakes up, and grabs the ship for the machine city. From
>this point on the movies going to be basically two major
>plotlines, jumping between them. Neo travelling to the
>Machine City, a MUCH quicker death scene from Trinity, and
>the final dragonball Z fight. This is interspersed with the
>final human fight, so while Neo's flying to the Machine
>City, they are preparing. When Neo's fighting Smith, your
>suppose to get the impression that the war in Zion is
>happening at the same time.
>

-The truce between the machines and humans was effective as soon as Neo asked for it; BEFORE he jacked in to go fight Smith. IF the battle went on WHILE Neo was fighting Smith, at least 30-40% more of Zio would have been destroyed.

>The ending id leave the same.
>
>
>Summery:
>Less Zion Bullshit.

...but Zion is not bullshit. It is the Last Human City...what's the point of not showing what they're fighting for...

>
>You get four major fight scenes(streamlined Burly Brawl,
>streamlined Highway Chase, Longer S&M Club fight, Same
>Superman final fight).
>
>You get your plottwist, in a smaller, leaner Architect
>scene.
>
>Pacing would be fine.
>
>It wouldn't be great, character development would take a
>major hit(however, its not like the sequels had ANY
>character development whatsoever). But whats left is one
>lean mean action movie machine.

-The Matrix films aren't supposed to be just "lean mean action movie machines"...that's what all of the other elements are there for...it's actually more of a hero's quest/ Biblical/ spiritual allegory than an out-and-out action film (which by nature usually have little to no substance; just enough back story to start guns going...)


5692, My beef with Zion is
Posted by BigReg, Sat Nov-08-03 09:22 PM
That they made it unsympathetic in Reloaded. If in the end they added a ending that when Neo walked out of the Architect room that Zion was instantly destroyed, gruesome death scenes included, I absolutely would have not given a fuck. The characters in Zion were cookie sheet cutouts, the rave scene was excessive and laugh out loud bad(it seemed a 50 year olds idea of what happens when teens party). For being the last human city I just really felt nothing for them.

Its only in Revolutions, with the battle scenes of them fighting the losing battle that you begin to feel anything for the characters. Their will to live made them human, because the scenes in the previous movie where they showed the tension and day to day life that they lived failed to make them anything remotely that an average filmgoer can relate to. Thats why Oz and Zee's role you can easily do away with. I mean Tank's one little three sentence speech on Zion in the first Matrix movie made me feel more for the city, then the 30+ minutes they dedicated to it in Reloaded.

Now, as far as the biblical, philosophical ideas the Matrix throws at you I think im in the middle of the pack. I don't think its a total bullshit copout like some of the detractors of the movies, by the same token I don't buy the 'Its really REALLY deep' idea that some of the fans propose. Because, once again, it failed in Reloaded for the most part. The little speeches where they attempted to drive the point home(well, in the Merovingaian(sp) and the Architect's case to provide a counter-argument) absolutely sucked and were self indulgent. The philosphies that the Matrix hinted at worked best when they weren't blatant hammer on the head messages, like the oracles appearace in all three films, or Neo meeting the program family in the beginning of Revolutions. Moments like when they blinded Neo and now 'he can see' with the blatant zillion biblical and philosophical ideas that it represented made me cringe. Moments when the father program pointed out that "Love is just a word" made me smile.

The reason why the beneath the surface idea's worked in the Matrix is that they were hinted at and nudged at for you to draw you own concusions. Something the brothers forgot alot of the time with the sequels. Its why imho, those movies fail as anything but straight action movies.
5693, RE: Let's Reload The Whole Matrix trilogy
Posted by DrNO, Sat Nov-08-03 05:44 PM
Directors = Ridley Scott, guy did blade runner. nuff said. OR Alex Proyas.
Writer = Scott Frank, he wrote Minority Report. And he wrote Get Shorty and Out of Sight, he can write dialogue.

As far as cast keep neo, trinity, morpheus, the oracle and TANK!. Drop Smith, he died in the first one, fuck that "upgrades" bullshit. No new human characters, no "old programs" that dont fit with the first one. Just new villains that arent shitty looking fruitcakes with white dreadlocks.

As far as story, Neo has to wake people up. Like was promised at the end of the first. No overblown lame fight scenes where there is no sense of danger. The people in Zion should have some personality, not just a generic mass of hippies in burlap.
5694, RE: Let's Reload The Whole Matrix trilogy
Posted by FuriousFreddy, Sat Nov-08-03 06:24 PM
>Directors = Ridley Scott, guy did blade runner. nuff said.
>OR Alex Proyas.
>Writer = Scott Frank, he wrote Minority Report. And he wrote
>Get Shorty and Out of Sight, he can write dialogue.
>
>As far as cast keep neo, trinity, morpheus, the oracle and
>TANK!.

Tank woulda been kept if Marcus Chong hadn't've demanded so much money to come back for the sequels...
Drop Smith, he died in the first one,

but that's the point; Smith didn't die...he was a rogue program that couldn't ve deleted and the balance to the equation of the One's presence in the Matrix

No "upgrades" bullshit. No new human characters, no "old
>programs" that dont fit with the first one. Just new
>villains that arent shitty looking fruitcakes with white
>dreadlocks.
>
>As far as story, Neo has to wake people up. Like was
>promised at the end of the first. No overblown lame fight
>scenes where there is no sense of danger. The people in Zion
>should have some personality, not just a generic mass of
>hippies in burlap.

What you want is what I want: mid-quels. Stories about what went on between the Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded (mind you, that's six whole months of stories/ events/ plot development that could be explored. Enough for at least two or three seasons of a TV show/anime, a few years worth of a comic book series, a series of novels, something!). You could see Neo waking up people, NEo honing his skills as the one, Neo and Trinity becoming closer, how Tank dies and how and why his brother-in-law Link replaces him, Get introduced to Niobe a little bit better, exlpore the rivalries between the Oracle/ Architect/ Merovigian (that means more Monica, folks...or at least a reasonable facsimile)...all kinds of angles you could appproach it from...
5695, not what i was thinking
Posted by DrNO, Sat Nov-08-03 07:38 PM
i would scrap Niobe, tanks replacement, the architect, the merovingian, and belluccii as well as dull completely pointless characters like the keymaker. Make the sequel take off on the alegory of the cave, see what would happen if he showed everyone the real world, what their reaction would be. Hell some people could ally themselves with the machines to stop him, it would be more inspired by what Cypher decided to do. And it wouldnt be the complete mess that reloaded was.
5696, KABOOM!
Posted by Allah, Sun Nov-09-03 09:41 AM
Excellent idea.
5697, RE: not what i was thinking
Posted by theGriddler, Sun Nov-09-03 01:46 PM
co-sign, for the most part. But despite how pointless the keymaker character was, I enjoyed him.
5698, yo mama!!!
Posted by Zorasmoon, Sun Nov-09-03 04:18 PM
>>i would scrap Niobe,<<<

Niobe was gansta, what are YOU talking about? Obviously, you are not of the millions of young anime/ vid game loving women who LONG for good female action heroines!!

f*ck off!




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5699, shes fucking boring
Posted by DrNO, Sun Nov-09-03 04:30 PM
i prefer kickass female action heroes over male ones any day so calm down. The bride would destroy Niobes dull ass.
5700, Keanu was okay. but I would have made Neo a
Posted by PhiladelphiaBlues, Sat Nov-08-03 09:04 PM
black dude.

I would have put in a lot more things that people can relate to (Irony worked so well in the original, what happened?).

and I would do a prequel...based on the things left out of the series so far...

it wouldn’t be titled “the matrix” just “The Beginning”

It’d do what they tried to do (or only partly did) with the Animatrix...

“The Matrix (Revolutions)” would have been more about trying to find Neo and get him out of the Matrix too...much more fighting scenes and we'd see more of those twins (from reloaded).

maybe the worst thing about Revolutions was that the supporting characters had as much if not more screen time the main players of the previous 2 films...this was jacked up. almost as if we had to get used to a whole new cast of characters...
5701, RE: Keanu was okay. but I would have made Neo a
Posted by FuriousFreddy, Sat Nov-08-03 10:16 PM
they wanted to make Neo a black dude...Will Smith was originally approached to play Neo...
5702, why a black dude
Posted by DrNO, Sat Nov-08-03 10:30 PM
how would that be an improvement? wouldnt change anything. Although the acting would probably be better.
5703, a wooden board could act better than keanu
Posted by RobOne4, Sun Nov-09-03 03:11 AM

5704, RE: Let's Reload The Whole Matrix trilogy
Posted by Mau777, Sun Nov-09-03 04:34 AM
'The Matrix'

Directed by - Tsui Hark
Co-Writer - Spike Jonze and Saul Williams (i said let's have fun)

Cast:

Neo -
Trinity - That breezy from T3...WHOA!
Morpheus - Same (He was excellent in the first one, 2 & 3 seriously destroyed his Obi-Wan/Yoda/Mr. Myagi status)
Agent Smith - Same (He was classic throughout. No matter what roles he gets from now on, "Mr. Anderson" will forever be associated with dude.)
Oracle - Same
Seriph - Jet Li
Architech - Christopher Walken
Merov - Same
Persiphone - Iman (Monica is crazy overrated to me)
Niobe - Same
Everyone else...who cares.

With, new dialogue no major changes to the first one except, the main characters in the movie (Neo,Morp,Trin) are damn near just as powerful as the Agents. Fuck that runnin' shit. I also thought that, if they new they were not in the real world, then they should of the mindstate of knowing that they are not (really) being hurt at all. In the training program Morpheus says to Neo, "You think that's air you're breathing", but that mentality of 'none of this is real', never sticks when they enter the matrix. He says "your mind makes it real", but they never change their minds to make it unreal. If that mentality was apart of the characters make up, ever fight scene would be either, completely off the hook or not taking place at all. Morpheus vs. Smith should've been much tighter than it was.

'Matrix Reloaded'

I'm feeling, whoever said the theme should be about freeing minds. Smith is gone, going down forever as one of the classic villians. Introduce a new villian upgrade, "Agent Jones" (Maggie Cheung). With Maggie Cheung being added and Jet Li as Seraph being introduced in this one, the fight scenes take on a whole 'nother level. Far less need for CGI and more true kung fu, the way it's supposed to look. When CGI is used, it's really on some DBZ shit, not just dodging bullets.
The minds will get freed, through a variety of ways, but each has a unique ability, that they can also manifest in the "real world". This would make Zion a truly magical city, full of enlightened and dope muthafuckaz all who had mastered the matrix and are now re-mastering in the real world what they mastered in the matrix. When a certain number of Zionites, say 250,000, have attained a good degree of mastery of their real world abilities, they would have enough power to emerge from underground and take back the planet. There are no suckaz in zion, like that wimpy lil kid character, and definitely no fuckin' hippie attire. (I also thought it was funny how white and clean the control room and the operators were and how shitty the rest of zion was).....

I gotta go more to come.
5705, good post
Posted by BigWorm, Sun Nov-09-03 09:13 AM
I would have gone into Joel Silver's office, sat down in front of his desk, given him the finger, then told him there's no way in Hell I was going to make the Matrix into a trilogy.

But just like with the Warchowski Brothers,

he would've quickly offered me more money, and I would've made the same kind of bullshit that they made.

And when cats like me bitched about how terrible they were, I would just laugh and pop another bottle of crys.

1Love,
Shuggy
5706, RE: good post
Posted by Mau777, Sun Nov-09-03 02:46 PM
hehehe.