I’m just now seriously getting into it… I mean, sure over the years I read your Lone Wolf and Cub, your Akira and Ghost in the Shell and all the really popular ones, but it’s only recently that I really really started getting interested in the art and culture of manga as a whole. and I have like, 50 years of catching up to do!

give me suggestions of some good things to read… not just actual manga, but also books on it, and preferably web sites

Don't know much about manga books but I have some really cool vids you might be interested in. Appleseed (there's a book on this.), X (really nice visual effects and storyline), Crying Freeman (a good hit man for hire movie) , Ninja Scroll (set in the glory days of the samuri), Ghost in the Shell (you already know about this), The Wings of Honnemise (about a nations quest to send a man into space. really beautiful artwork.), Zone of the Enders: Idolo (this one is really visually stunning.). I can't remember the rest but I hope this helps.

peace

right now I’m trying to explore actual manga more than the anime based on them, but this is cool nonetheless… I was just looking at the catalogues for the public library to see what they had and I saw Crying Freeman. it looked kinda interesting, but I wasn’t sure,…

I think I’ll check that out, though.

i don't know if you're close to a Virgin Megastore but they have TONS of manga books. i often get caught up looking at them for hours on end. mostly for the artwork. i just can't get into the books...i would rather watch the movie.

peace

it was while i was spending the better part of an hour at Virgin during my lunch yesterday that i realized i need to immerse myself in this culture in a more orderly fashion... try to understand the history, the genres, the well-known creators, the innovators, etc.

there is so much history involved with this culture it should be an interesting journey. let me know how you do as i am always looking to be enlightened.

peace.

The Drakuun universe seems to be based on a cross between the
Dragon Half and the Outlanders anime,
or vice versa. Oh I suppose there is manga for Dragon Half also.

i wondered that myself and found some threads on another board that might be useful. haven't had a chance to get any of these yet, so i don't know how good their recommendations are.

a couple "top 10 of all time" lists:
http://www.sketchyorigins.com/comics/showthread.php?t=1236

"i'm a manga newbie; what should i read?"
http://www.sketchyorigins.com/comics/showthread.php?t=2697
http://www.sketchyorigins.com/comics/showthread.php?t=2612
unfortunately they give very little context, so it's hard to judge.

you might want to just ask your question on that board.

thank you!

Its a Classic one of my favorite Mangas The Charecters are really well developed and theres alot of sex and violence without out it being corny or overdone

I also like crying freeman

there are alot of communitys on the web and a few places on direct connect where peopl eshare jpegs and pdf's of whole volumes of manga book I got turned on to alot of stuff outside of my super hero/fantasy reguler genre

that came out about 20 yrs back is "Manga! Manga!: The World of Japanese Comics"

i'd definitely recommend this one--it's basic and straight to the point

thanks, though

I liked it a lot.

Grey:Digital Justice - ehh
Orion by Shirow - ehhh

...give some of Shirow's other stuff a try...

Orion
This is a strange mix of techno-mancy and karmic politics. It's all influenced by chinese god legends and magic. He changes up his art stlye for a more brused and flowing look here.

Dominion
Cop comedy centered around a tank based police force in the future. Lots of jokes about evolution, politics and technology.

Black Magic M66
One of his early works that's kind of an anthology based around the concept of artificial intelligence created for weapons. More magic and tech but done in a way that a lot more down to earth than in Orion.

Currently reading...

Blade of the Immortal
Samurai story about how it's not so hot being a stone cold killer or being an immortal for that matter. The story has been going strong for several years and it's just now beginning to hit it's stride. Great drama, characters and plot twist from story arc to story arc. This is my favorite book out of anything I read these days.

Gundam: The Origin
This is another retelling of the original Gundam story but the excellent art and the more personal attention to the characters, especially the main boy-who-finds-robot-and-MUST-fight character. In the show he just came off as a whiny snob. This manga gives you a better perspective on why he's behiving like that as well as some better takes on the supporting cast.

Alien Nine
I'm borrowing this from a friend thinking I'm not going to like it much but damnit if the story and premise hasn't sucked me in. It's about how the government is using kids to partol for invading alien liforms at schools. It sounds simple but as the stories progress, something much more sinister seems to be at hand. Already by the second volume, one girl has been killed and reasurected as something close to human but not quite.

Read in the past...

Vagabond
This is an adaptation of the legend of Mushashi, one of the more notoriously sucessful and revered swordsmen in Japanese history. It's has great art and an odd mix of slapstick and deadly serious drama. A lot of "spirit of fighting" type stuff but the characters and their progression keeps it interesting. Need to start picking up this again actually...

Black and White
Almost surreal story of two street kids who duke it out with gangs in an outrageously evolved city. Interesting take on the tough fighting kid story.

Domu
By Katsuhiro Ottomo, is a ghost story set in a Japanese low rent appartment complex. A vengeful spirit is killing people and an investigator is trying to get to the bottom of it.

Battle Angel Alita
Strange mix of horror, dark comedy, sci-fi, and martial arts. This story follows a cyborg's journey of self discovery and physical evolution as she struggles with the truth behind her true identity and origins.

Don't even think about missing...

Nausicaa and the Valley of the Wind
It is quite possibly the best manga ever made.

But that's just me.

Going to start reading...

Beserk
This is SUPPOSED to be the lick. I've got the anime prequel to the book and love it so I've got high hopes for the manga. From what I've seen, it's a dark and gritty tale of a lone, cursed swordsman during the dark ages.

Blame
This is an odd duck. Very little dialogue, dark, moody landscapes and structures with a post apocalyptic feel that mirrors gothic art and horror. It's an odd trip through a possible future where machines run amok constantly remaking the landscape and humanity is almost totaly wiped out. All the while you follow the main character through endless dungeons looking for a gene that may stop all of this.

If you want samples, go here...
www.omanga.net

It's true, there's A LOT of crap out there. And even then, that's totally subjective.

Then there are the endless volumes of Korean manwah titles people seem to be snapping up and publishing side by side with the managa. It's a matter of finding what clicks with you and rolling with that.

Later...
Kwesi K.

It's a fan translation site for manga.

They buy it, scan it and translate it.

All you have to do is go to the link in the post above and download it.

Hope you find something good there. They also have links to other sites that translate other titles.

Later...
Kwesi K.

I know you ride the train to work.

*9:30 pm, envisioning a 40-year-old AFKAP, in blue suit, sleeping on the train smelling of stale Suntory whiskey with an open oni-tentacle-rape comic on his lap while girls in sailor school-girl unforms titter and point. AF wakes up, lurches out at the next station, and heaves into the track opposite the platform, leaving the comic on board.*

>*9:30 pm, envisioning a 40-year-old AFKAP, in blue suit,
>sleeping on the train smelling of stale Suntory whiskey with
>an open oni-tentacle-rape comic on his lap while girls in
>sailor school-girl unforms titter and point. AF wakes up,
>lurches out at the next station, and heaves into the track
>opposite the platform, leaving the comic on board.*

actually, i don't read comics on the train at all... i had a pretty sobering experience around that

some of my students tried to get me to read some, and I was known to leaf through them while waiting for my miso-ramen and gyooza, but in general... bah.

I think that one of the problems is that there's soooo much crap out there, and that the crap is what most people read (at least back Nippon-way), that it would have been very hard for me to find stuff that would have appealed to me. I mean, Shonen JUMP isn't exactly anything I would have felt was worth working through all the kanji for.

I'd say you have a better possibility finding out about the good shit here than I did over in rockin' Iwate.

Plus., those guys on the train reading the porn shit and just not caring... that's a turnoff to an entire genre if ever there was one.

But this:

>actually, i don't read comics on the train at all... i had a
>pretty sobering experience around that

C'mon, out with it! It sounds like the story behind that could rival your "first shower in the Army" story. That shit is STILL cracking me up.

>I think that one of the problems is that there's soooo much
>crap out there, and that the crap is what most people read
>(at least back Nippon-way), that it would have been very
>hard for me to find stuff that would have appealed to me. I
>mean, Shonen JUMP isn't exactly anything I would have felt
>was worth working through all the kanji for.

i was leafing through JUMP just yesterday... and i feel you that's kinda the reason i made this post because the most easily accessible stuff is, well... not exactly the best.

>Plus., those guys on the train reading the porn shit and
>just not caring... that's a turnoff to an entire genre if
>ever there was one.

i got nothing against hentai, but the LA Blue Girl oral-rape-by-demon-tentacle shit kinda bugs me out! lol

>>actually, i don't read comics on the train at all... i had a
>>pretty sobering experience around that
>
>C'mon, out with it! It sounds like the story behind that
>could rival your "first shower in the Army" story. That shit
>is STILL cracking me up.

umm... well, this storyis quite as good, but...

well, i'll tell you later. promise (i got some sticky keys here that's making it hard to type)

I do it im pretty shameless I just hate when people ask me what im reading and if superman is still dead I ant trying to talk to no fuckn body

plus, i've actually seen women who might've been feeling me literally cringe with disgust when i pull out my copy of Tom Strong or something

Its Hayao Miyazaki. If thats not reason enough, shoot yourself right now, i dont like you.

read it from right-to-left and start at the end of the manga just like those crazy Japanese lads! they're crazy.

hate hate manga/anime.

call me a hater cos i HATE it.

V.

but i think i'm just now starting to understand it. it took some historical perspective for me to get here, though

again i say 'hmm'.

i guess i just prefer sumthn a little more linear, like them Batman Animated series'.

V.

>it took
>some historical perspective for me to get here, though

Not that I ever tried to gain any, but I am curious.

Outside of Porco Rosso, the entire genre feels... very alien to me. And that's always struck me as strange b/c after spending so much time there, so many other distinctly Japanese things began to feel perfectly natural. But never the manga or the anime.

it IS alien… and it takes a certain amount of mental and aesthetic refocus for the average American (or at least, someone who grew up with their values shaped by American culture, ie me) to appreciate it.

like, I don’t think you’re much of a comics fan in general, so it might be even tougher for you. me… I absolutely lived comics until about ten years ago. as far as pop culture goes, they had complete primacy for me, way above music or film.

I always admired anime to some degree in the 70s..., I dug the Shogun Warriors, Battle of the Planets, Speed Racer and all that (Star Rakers was probably my favorite, though… I felt so “grown up” watching that). when manga became really popular in the 80s, I have to admit that I wasn’t really that interested… I hated most of the American stuff that was influenced by manga (eg Transformers, Voltron).

anyway, when I finally did try to get back into manga, I was really alienated by the art. I mean, the cartoony, “puppy dog eyes” style was something I always admired about Japanese comic art, as well as the economy of line. but sometimes, it was just too weird for me. on one hand, you’d have beautifully drawn stuff like Akira and Ghost in the Shell (though I have to admit that I didn’t even find those stories all that engaging at the time) and then on the other, I’m looking at a bunch of stuff that is asking to be taken seriously and all the people in it are drawn like puppies with human bodies (these was particularly disconcerting/risible with the more “adult” material.)

but I’m rambling. let me get to the point. lately, I’ve been thinking a lot about Osamu Tezuka, and I think that his work is kinda the bridge that allowed me to access this previously alien world because his art (especially in Tetsuwon Atomu) was so influenced by Disney and Fleischer studios. also, because he basically introduced so many of the conceits that became manga standards, such as the “puppy dog eyes”…

from there, I started to understand the “code” of the medium better… the way that symbology is more important to dialogue, the bizarre sound effects, and especially the eloquence of the visuals… it’s just a different way of thinking.

in the “Manga! Manga!” book that Aja recommended above, there’s a quote by Frank Miller where he sort of talks about these “codes”… like, in American comics, we’ve gotten used to our own codes, like a certain configuration of lines being used to represent a nose. we see that configuration and think “a nose,” right? but when you think about it, it really looks nothing like a human nose. I learned how to draw from comics, and I remember when I first moved to Nigeria, drawing noses a certain way in Art class… people laughed at my noses and the teacher used to tell me how crap they were…

I think another thing that got me interested in manga was just learning how diverse the mudium was… I mean, I always knew that people of all ages read comics in Japan, but like most people in this country I associated manga with giant robots, schoolgirls being raped by demons, impossibly big-titted women in leather catsuits, etc. and I didn’t much care for any of that. I’ve found myself gravitating more towards the shojo stuff, the romantic comedies, the funny animals, stuff like that.

>like, I don’t think you’re much of a comics fan in general,

Very true, but I did at least try a little.

>I always admired anime to some degree in the 70s..., I dug
>the Shogun Warriors, Battle of the Planets, Speed Racer and
>all that (Star Rakers was probably my favorite, though… I
>felt so “grown up” watching that).

Shit, who didn't? I loved all that stuff... blowing things up, giant robots...

>but I’m rambling. let me get to the point. lately, I’ve been
>thinking a lot about Osamu Tezuka, and I think that his work
>is kinda the bridge that allowed me to access this
>previously alien world because his art (especially in
>Tetsuwon Atomu) was so influenced by Disney and Fleischer
>studios. also, because he basically introduced so many of
>the conceits that became manga standards, such as the “puppy
>dog eyes”…

You know what's weird about that is that in Japan, Tetsuo no Atom is sort of like Mickey Mouse (except that he's been surpassed by the Mickey), and Osamu's name is probably the second most known in the anime/manga world. His image is all over the place, kids love him, adults reminisce fondly... but regular manga readers who've read early Atom, or seen the actual early cartoons, are about as high as Disnelyand visitors who've seen Steamboat Willie.

I don't know, maye I should try that sometime... but the romantic comedies, teen, housewife,and salaryman dramas, shit there was even a comic a friend of mine read regularly called 'Pachi-Puro' about a professional pachinko player... no, not for me.

Now, Crayon Shin-Chan on the other hand... that shit's funny as hell! (Though again I confess to enjoying the TV show more than the comic; you ever get a chance to watch it, the language gap is pretty minimal if you don't get the Nihongo.)

>You know what's weird about that is that in Japan, Tetsuo no
>Atom is sort of like Mickey Mouse (except that he's been
>surpassed by the Mickey), and Osamu's name is probably the
>second most known in the anime/manga world. His image is all
>over the place, kids love him, adults reminisce fondly...
>but regular manga readers who've read early Atom, or seen
>the actual early cartoons, are about as high as Disnelyand
>visitors who've seen Steamboat Willie.

right. that, too… Osamu was kinda the key for me, the same way that Uncle Walt is the cornerstone of American cartoons, essentially. whenever I’m trying to understand something, I liked to go back to the beginning. once you get the solid foundation from the root, it’s easier to understand the branches and choose what you like and what you don’t

>I don't know, maye I should try that sometime... but the
>romantic comedies, teen, housewife,and salaryman dramas,
>shit there was even a comic a friend of mine read regularly
>called 'Pachi-Puro' about a professional pachinko player...
>no, not for me.

hahaha… see, that’s the stuff I’m trying to see more of, actually. just to see what they’re like… I understand they even have “exam comics”!

> I understand they
>even have “exam comics”!

That wouldn't surprise me... I mean in a coutry where vending machines sell everything from soiled panties to terrible whiskey to batteries... where the leading non-dairy creamer is called CREAP, and there are leading soft drink called 'Calpis' and 'Pocari Sweat'... where they have the technology and money to do central air and heat but JUST DON"T STINKING BOTHER... and where 4th generation Koreans-Japanese stil have to keep a green card throughout their life...
Seriously, the school entrance exams are a very real source of stress for kids and real-life drama, so it makes sense that there'd be a market for comics about it. Gotta be boring as shit, though.

whoa...

though I didn't know about the subsequent crackdown...

http://www.snopes.com/risque/kinky/panties.htm

The article is pretty well researched and manages to touch on a number of common Japanese sexual/fetish scenarios (and both roricon and bura-sera are still in effect; witness the late-'90s rise of teen prostitution known (i believe) as shojo-shobai). It<'s my understanding that all of these fetishes turn up even in non-hentai adult manga with some regularity.[br />

yeah, i knew about the panty fetish... just didn't know that they had vending machines that dealt 'em

i was reading a copy of the soft-porn mag Urecco yesterday, and at the back there were ads to buy the panties that all the models in the magazine wore during their shoots. i found that kinda cute.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoManga/home.htm

They have every single chapter from 1-191.

thanks!

Don't give up on it early. Give it 5-10 chapters and it's like crack. It has the coolest characters and there's a lot of them. plenty of great fights and it puts an original spin on ninjas. The anime is out and up to episode 57. The manga is still going strong.

Naruto - Fisticuffs already told you about this one

Berserk - somebody else already mentioned this, REALLY good

Neon Genesis Evangelion - extremely popular and controversial mecha anime/manga by director/top cat at Gainax Hideaki Anno that really gets into topics like religion, philosophy, and psychology. If you haven't seen the anime, by all means go out and check it

Uzumaki - they made this into a movie in japan, i saw it, scared the crap outta me. By acclaimed horror manga writer Junji Ito and does a damn good job of it's s'posed to deliver. About a town's obsession with spirals causing really strange things to go on

Ranma 1/2 - martial arts manga with a lot of slapstick comedy thrown in. Gets kinda ridiculous at some parts. About a boy named Ranma who ends up a girl every time he gets soaked with cold water hehe

if youre into the whole romantic comedy thing..

about this cat who wants so badly to go to Tokyo U to fulfill a promise he made with a girl 15 years ago as a kid, ends up in an all girls dorm that was ran by his grandmother, becomes the manager, falls into awkward situations that just look bad gettin his ass whupped by the girls who're in the dorm..

the series is kinda long and the anime's just as good but i'd read the manga 1st..

i just watched Neon Genesis Evangelion last night... i'm a big fan of Gainax. i haven't read the manga yet, though

speaking of Gainax, Fooly Cooly has go to be my favorite anime right now. unfortunately, when i went to pick up the manga the other day, i was kinda disappointed by how different the artwork is from the cartoon

the artwork is kinda crude compared to the anime..

and from what i've read and heard from reviews, it's not as good as the anime..

i also found out it actually came out after the anime did which is also intersting..

Love Hina was definitely a good read i was thinkin about pullin that out again and readin it over actually..

watchin EVA anime or readin the manga doesn't really make too much of a difference since they both follow real closely together..

but i feel you on Gainax too

when's this Samurai Champloo supposed to be out in the States?

or is he just refusing to work with anime artists?

that cat's always got his hands full with some kinda project or somethin..

and Watanabe mightve wanted to expose some lesser known cats to an audience who'dve otherwise never hear of some of em..

i dunno really tho, he really should've tho, and maybe even get RZA on board cause i know he would've been interested in somethin like this..

i'm geeked they got Fat Jon on board tho, his instrumental records are that shit, not to mention 5deez

.

but it'll most likely end up comin here in 2004 (least i hope so)..

there's not a whole lotta info disclosed about it right now, that i've found at least

i went to the comic spot today (first time in my life) and i saw Love Hina, and they were $10 a piece, and there were like 20 books. so for each title it costs a couple hundred dollars???

what the fuck is up, in the place to be

two lists from amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/1T5A283SE40FA/ref%3Dcm%5Fmpemr%5Flm/102-1995302-8019302

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/SGCKRF1YUTY6/ref%3Dcm%5Fmpemr%5Flm/102-1995302-8019302

what the fuck is up, in the place to be

if someone hasnt said it already;
try spirited away by miyazaki and the rest of his stuff. he does the most amazing detailed frames per second and is leading the market over in japan.

that perhaps it would be a good idea for someone who has all the requisite knowledge to post a breakdown of the two styles and their relationship.

There seems to be more than a slight bit of confusion, given the numbers of posts suggesting anime rather than manga.

manga is print

anime is film

but there is a clear relationship between the two as well: drawing styles, subject genres, and crossovers (manga --> anime and the reverse). I don't think it's any deeper than that, but I'm so far from an expert on the subject that I opt out.

there’s an extremely diverse range of drawing styles employed in manga, from the ultra-realistic to the highly stylized to the cartoonish to the crude to the minimal

if I was to distinguish the art styles from each other, the place I would probably start would be boys’ comics vs. girls’ comics (shonen vs. shojo). girls’ stuff tends to be very romantic and ornate in layout, have Euro-looking characters with impossibly huge and starry eyes and all that

most anime seems to be drawn using roughly the same style, though there are fine distinctions

http://toriyamaworld.com/eyeshield21/

This site has a lot of good manga.

what the fuck is up, in the place to be

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1569318638/002-2771220-0245669?v=glance

really funny "instructional" book on how to write and draw manga. it basically serves as a way for the artists to vent about the manga industry. this might be a good intro to current popular manga culture with a few historical references on the way. i wouldn't know since all i know about manga is from this book.

mostly tho, it's just a funny book about how ideas in commercial art are copied a regurgitated over and over. one highlight is "Panty Evolution" -- a lineage of how panties are drawn in manga over the years:

Java Panty: Now, notice how the pubic portion of the panty is layered, as indicated by a single line. And this one line shattered all previous symbolism vis-a-vis pantyflashing. Eros...That's right. Panties became a turn-on. This one line was no less revolutionary than the first time monkeys used bones as tools!
...
Cro-Magnon Panty: Th-then these wrinkles appeared! Tatsuo Kanai must have put his heart -- no -- his love into this design! It was the peak of panty expression.

most of the book they look at how the different genres evolve over the decades. i found most of it really funny.

...from the library, that is