>>
>>No it doesn't it all. You are fishing. Did you notice the
>>people following him when he travelled overseas in the
>movie?
>>Or were they just two arbitrary white guys sent by NOI? Come
>>on. Or how about the phone tapping of his phones by these 2
>>white guys in the movie? Or the part where Malcolm says "its
>>more than just the Nation...".
>>
>Yes, I noticed those guys following MX and who can forget the
>agents listening in to MX speak to his wife and comment that
>he's a saint compared to King.
>
>So what????? Indicating that the CIA may've been following
>Malcolm and showing that the FBI was listening to his phone
>conversations does not reveal the extent to which U.S.
>Intelligence agencies were involved in Malcolm's murder. It
>doesn't even come close to disclosing their involvement. It
>just makes them look like some nosey motherfuckers, akin to
>Mrs. Cravitts on Bewitched, instead low-down, deceitful
>murdering sons-of-bitches. Anyone who walks away with the
>former view of the CIA and FBI in Malcolm's death as opposed
>to the latter view is a problem to me. But if you have no
>problem with it, that's on you.
>

I don't have a problem with it. You know why? Because as I researched further I found out more about Malcolm and how he was a problem not only for the NOI, but also the U.S. and countries across the globe. But this was before the movie. But see, I don't expect a movie to solely educate me, maybe you do. The movie did its job. It planted a seed, and caused you to do more digging on the subject if you wanted to. Malcolm's entire life could not be reduced to 3 1/2 hours. But again, people want to nitpick.

>
>>Divide and conquer? Did the Nation *not* want Malcolm dead?
>>Answer that question? Did Elijah Muhammad junior *no* say he
>>want to cut out Malcolm's toungue and send it to his father?
>>Was the FBI, NYPD, CIA involved? Yes. John Ali was an
>>informant. But they exploited an already existing
>relationship
>>in which the Nation wanted Malcolm dead.
>
>I can't speak to individuals, but I know that the official
>word from Elijah Muhammad was to leave Malcolm alone.

Do you know the history of the NOI and its form of "sacrifices" back in the day. Do you know they were shooting and killing their members around the time they were trying to hunt down Malcolm X? And they killed a lot more after Malcolm's death.


>It is
>well known that the organization had more than its fair share
>of zealots who were unhappy with Malcolm,

Elijah Muhammad included.

>viewed him as a
>traitor, and thought that he should be dealt with, but that
>doesn't speak to the head of the organization, because the
>official word was to leave him alone.
>

Really? lol. Elijah Muhammad was jealous of Malcolm as well. He felt eclipsed by Malcolm and feared that Malcolm would leave and build another movement just like Malcolm had built the Nation to what it had become. The Nation was nothing before Malcolm came on the scene. Do some research, brother? Elijah Muhammad knew what was going on, and didn't mind Malcolm being silenced.


>
> They made attempts on
>>his life and firebombed his house all over nothing but
>>jealousy.
>
>Who are you saying bombed his house? The NOI? How do you
>know this? If you know for certain who bombed his house, I'd
>like for you to go one better for me and Inbox me the next big
>pay Lotto numbers.
>

Captain Joseph X of temple #7 of the NOI admitted to bombing the house before his died in the early 90's. And in the video "Make it Plain" Joesph X tried to avoid the issue when they asked him about who bombed Malcolm's house. He said he didn't know, but had guilt written all over his face in that documentary. But Joseph admitted to bombing the house.

>
>Who contributed more to the old divide and conquer,
>>brother? The "gubment" or blacks themeselves. That is what
>>Spike was getting at. Its why he chose to leave that quote
>of
>>Malcolm in the movie of "n*ggas ruined it". Were there
>outside
>>forces? Yes. But the heart of the problem existed within the
>>Nation. Not outside of it. THAT is what Spike chose to focus
>>on. The crux of the matter.
>
>We are a flawed people with many, many problems and anytime we
>attempt to get together on anything, there is a destructive
>mechanism that tends to take place (some identify it as the
>"Willie Lynch chip") that blocks us from gelling completely
>and often things turn out to be a total mess.

lol. This is a joke. See, that is a problem right there. They only have power when you give it too them. Forget that "willie lynch" bullsh*t. It comes down to responsibility. When are black people going to take responsibility for themselves and predicament and stop blaiming "the man". See, THAT notion was in the movie, brother. But if you weren't nitpicking so much, you probably wouldn't have missed that key concept. That was the essence of Malcolm. THAT was in the movie.

>I don't deny
>that we, as a people, have problems; but I also realize that
>this is not something that is inherent in us.

Its inherent in all people. Weak people choose to adhere and abide by it. Malcolm was not weak. The NOI was. That is why Malcolm left or was forced out. Again, THAT was in the movie.

>It is the
>result of centuries of outside forces conditioning us and
>influencing us. I acknowledge that.
>

And it will be centuries before blacks actually get anywhere unless they lose the inferiority complex when it comes to whites and teh so-called power structures. Why don't you acknowledge that? THAT was in the movie, brother. Its all in the mind.

>At the same time, I can not turn a blind eye and ignore when
>we have been deliberately and blatantly been fucked with.

Right, the learned helplessness syndrome. That is what Malcolm X was totally against. THAT was in the movie.


>Malcolm's murder was the result one of these instances of us
>being deliberately and blatantly being fucked with by
>outsiders who obviously did not and do not have our best
>interest at heart.

Malcolm's murder was the result of the NOI with assistance from those outside forces. He wasn't the first NOI member to be f*cked up and gunned down. Do some research. Malcolm's murder was the result of fear,jealousy, and the quest for power within the NOI with help from the FBI, CIA, NYPD, and United States. The gestation and core root of this problem was birthed in the NOI. The outside forces didn't have much work to do. It was going to be done with or without them.


>
>
>>
>>
>>>Its a 3 hour movie. Malcolm X
>>>>lived several lifetimes in 39 1/2 years. There were always
>>>>going to be things missing that aren't in the movie. I
>>don't
>>>>understand that criticism.
>>>
>>>Agreed. And he could've cut down on some of the non-sense
>>>jitterbug time at the beginning and inserted a strong
>>>implication (at the very least) that imperialist interests
>>>were threatened by MX and his vision and ultimate goal and
>>>that US Intelligence along with other like agencies in
>other
>>>nations were making serious moves to eliminate him.
>>>
>>
>>Right, and if he did that, critics would say why did he just
>>cover the latter part of his life? Why did he just cover
>that
>>aspect? Warner Brothers didn't even want him to give a 3 hr
>>limit? Come on now, you are fishing for straws.
>>
>First of all dude, I don't fish. If you enjoyed the movie for
>it's entertainment value, that's fine, but don't try to make
>it seem like this was all that great of an adaptation of MX's
>life, because IMO, it wasn't.

Right, because Spike made up every event in the movie, lol. Okay, to each his own. You want to blame the white power structure, fine. That is what makes Spike great. He can't win with anybody. He chose to make you look in the mirror. You don't want to look in the mirror. You want the blame to go somebody else.

> No doubt, Malcolm's life was
>complex and there was a lot that can still be told no matter
>what all is included, but to focus and shucking and jiving and
>partying and bullshitting as much as he chose to was
>ridiculous and disappointing.
>

All that stuff was in his life. Why don't you blame Malcolm for putting it in his autobiography. Maybe you need to watch the movie again. Because the focus was not "shucking and jiving and
>partying and bullshitting". Those events in Boston and Harlem shaped Malcolm X as a person. It was part of his development. Malcolm even said himself guys with his type of background who could transform themselves to do good are the most devastingly effective people to help the problems and plight of the black community. That was extremely relevant. Its part of his life. Apparently you wanted another movie.

>
>>>Instead, Spike leaves the viewer with the impression of
>this
>>>being just simply another case of Black on Black violence.
>>>And MX's murder was much bigger than that.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Yes it was. But it doesn't ingnore the fact that his own
>>brothers wanted him canceled for no reason but their own
>>jealousy of his power.
>>
>
>Some may've wanted him dead, I'll give you that; but that
>doesn't mean that they killed him.

lol. I mean, nobody from the NOI pulled the trigger.

>What makes you think that
>the hostility towards Malcolm was purely jealousy and envy as
>if there were no other issues involved?

When did I say there weren't other issues involved? But the core of the hostility towards Malcolm was jealousy and fear amongst his brethren in the Nation. The Nation had a lot of crooked people. They were thieves. They were stealing money, they enjoyed their little positions of power. And they all were jockeying for the top job. Malcolm was nothing like that. He was the heir apparent to Elijah Muhammad. They had to get rid of him, because Malcolm did succeed, he would have gotten rid of them and cleaned up the Nation for its own good.

See,a lot of the NOI were frauds. It was a hustle for a lot them, Elijah Muhammad included. They had a good thing going. Money was coming in. Malcolm, in the name of righteousness, was disrupting the hustle that existed. Those hustling crooks were able to enjoy those fruits because Malcolm had built the movement through his own personal labor in the name of Allah. Malcolm's movement was built on righteousness. That is why in the movie,in one of its most telling scenes, Malcolm throws it back at Baines and says, "I'm telling you God's words not no hustle...Brother Baines is a 2-bit hustler and one hand washes the other". The divide was there. See, that wasn't entertainment. That was a depiction of the reality that existed within the Nation of Islam.

> You've been watching
>this comfounded movie too much.
>

Actually, I've done my research, brother. Its what Malcolm was all about. He did not rely on one resource for information. If he did he would have been crippled, mentally like most in the Nation were and like a lot of them are today with Farrakhan as the leader. And the Nation wouldn't have become the movement it became wit Malcolm as its spokesman. He was exhaustive in acquiring information. That is why his mind, power, and force was untouchable. The only way to get rid of him was kill him. You've been watching the confounded movie in your head too much.


>>>
>>>>
>>>>This is a great movie to capture Malcolm and his life. Its
>>>not
>>>>going to cover every minute detail. It encourages you to
>>>seek
>>>>more about Malcolm and learn more about him.
>>>>
>>>No doubt. But unfortunately, for the masses, more indepth
>>>research is not going to occur. So this movie, for all
>it's
>>>worth, is going to be their education on and impression of
>>MX.
>>> This is the sad reality.
>>>
>>
>>Is that Spike's fault or the masses?
>
>The intellectual laziness of the masses is not Spikes fault
>and I never claimed that it was. I feel that if Spike is
>going to make a movie on a man like Malcolm, who means so many
>things to so many people, he should be responsible and
>represent Malcolm's image properly and intelligently, because
>for many, if they don't get that at this movie, they're not
>gonna get it at all, ever.

Again, Spike represented Malcolm's image properly and intelligently. Again, you are blaiming Spike for what others don't do. That isn't Spike's fault. Spike did his part. And he did a damn good job of it. The onus is on everybody else to do their part, brother. You and myself included.


>
>>
>>>
>>>>Spike can't win with the critics.
>>>
>>>When you take on a project like this that involves an
>ICONIC
>>>figure like MX, you'd better expect some criticism. I
>mean,
>>>it comes with the territory.
>>>
>>
>>Really? No matter how great that movie is? I see. lol
>>
>
>Yes, criticism comes with the territory, especially when you
>do a theatrical reflection of Malcolm, so expect it.
>Honestly, it's one of those things where you just can't please
>everybody.

As we see with your posts. lol

>And "great" is relative and completely subjective.
> And even if a movie is considered "great" as a general
>concensus, that doesn't keep it from being a thing that can be
>critiqued and criticized.
>

Critizied and critiqued is one thing. Nitpicking because its Spike Lee who directed the movie, is another.


>
>
>
>>>
>>>Thats what makes Malcolm X
>>>>the movie even more special. It can't be denied because
>its
>>>so
>>>>good. Sure, the critics will find flaws and nitpick. But
>>>deep
>>>>in their hearts they know its a masterpiece. And they
>can't
>>>>stand it. lol
>>>>
>>>It was a good piece of entertainment that was BASED ON the
>>>life and times and death of Malcolm X. No more, no less.
>>>
>>
>>When did Spike or the marketing department say otherwise. It
>>says right on the DVD package as such.
>
>Agreed. Good entertainment is all the movie really was when
>it comes down to it.

lol. Right, there was nothing factual in the movie. LMAO!!

>And I guess that's where I differ with
>you and most:

^^I'm on my own (c) Pattie Labelle. lol

>If given a choice between watching this movie
>or watching a documentary on Malcom, I will ALWAYS select the
>documentary.
>

Good for you. Because the documentary will cover every angle of Malcolm's life. lol Thats why there are so many of them and each one leaves out a lot of information that is important. lol