http://laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=67656

SEPTEMBER 9 - 15, 2005

Pimping the Ride
Why Hustle & Flow matters — too much
by ERIN AUBRY KAPLAN

Craig Brewer (in cap) surrounded
by the Hustle cast: Movin' on
up, but at what cost?
(Photo by Andrew
Hetherington/Redux)
I’ve long believed that when it comes to judging black movies, the most accomplished film critics — most of them white, it must be said — lose their minds. Whether it’s due to a sense of political correctness, low expectations, fear of racial confrontation or just plain ignorance, reviewers tend to suspend their critical faculties and evaluate black films not on the basis of story, acting or character development, but according to a peculiar criterion that really boils down to one question: Is it black enough? In the beginning, that meant a movie that jibed with simple images and social roles acceptable to white folk — domestics, entertainers, comic relief and con men. (Hattie McDaniel’s history-making Oscar win for Gone With the Wind has, unfortunately, endured less as an acknowledgment of her talents than as an indictment of the industry that circumscribed those talents to fit an image that it wanted to see.)

Almost 70 years later, though it has been mitigated somewhat by the black freedom movement and the fitfully successful effort by blacks to seize control of their own media images, “black enough” still means blackness approved by a predominantly white mainstream culture. Of course, many blacks are themselves solidly part of the mainstream now and seemingly willing to accept the pejorative as status quo — one of the many strange and insidious effects of freedom. But looking at ourselves through the eyes of others and believing what we see isn’t anything new. What has changed markedly since the days of Gone With the Wind is the widespread embrace of black pathology, especially black urban pathology, as the standard for representative black images. Instead of non-threatening maids and minstrels, we now have whores and murderous gangstas being marketed as cool, hip and, above all, real. Such characterizations don’t debase black people, we’re solemnly told, they honor them; they tell our essential truths. A pimp isn’t a bad reflection on black folk — he’s our Everyman, our salt of the big-city earth. This is a new age; the old meanings don’t apply anymore. What’s most disturbing to me is how willingly critics and other gatekeepers of popular culture routinely reinforce this kind of Orwellian logic. And increasingly, they’re going a step beyond, sanctioning these dangerous stereotypes as not only permissible, but human. Which brings me to Hustle & Flow.


We all know that this film had some built-in traction because the screenwriter, Craig Brewer, is white and therefore automatically controversial. But let’s get some other things out of the way: Yes, John Singleton produced. Yes, the film has been championed by the likes of cinematic activist Spike Lee. Yes, Singleton and Lee have both made notable films of their own, some of which were specifically aimed at countering the black pablum coming out of Hollywood. Can they be wrong-headed sometimes? Self-serving, shortsighted, willing to ignore the content of a black independent film for the sake of proving that it too can find that coveted crossover audience, like My Big Fat Greek Wedding, March of the Penguins and dozens of other low-budget hits of the past decade? In a word, yes. Now back to the subject at hand. I was suspicious from the moment I read all the prerelease Hustle hype and saw the lurid billboards advertising the film, which blanketed South-Central like so many velvet paintings. Even so, I went hoping for the best; nobody has to convince me that Terrence Howard is a good actor. But 15 minutes into a showing of the film at the ArcLight Theater, I realized that not even Howard, as the movie’s pimp-rapper protagonist, DJay, could temper the fact that Hustle & Flow is bound to be the most despicable film of 2005.

At a time when white fantasies about black urban life have become routine, this movie, couched in full indie street cred courtesy of Sundance (where it won the Audience Award for dramatic feature), takes the genre to a level of exploitation and insult unique to the millennium. This is a nigger-fest minus some of the saturated color and amped soundtrack that a studio-produced movie would have — in short, minus the gloss that at least acknowledges the cartoonishness of the whole enterprise. But no such self-awareness exists in Hustle and its stripped-down “real” world, where all black men are thugs, criminals or rap artists, or — what’s the difference, really? — aspiring to be. Otherwise, they’re not authentic black men, which is one of the movie’s most pernicious racial messages (and, believe me, there are many). So intent is Brewer to stay on message that he turns DJay’s high-school buddy Key (Anthony Anderson), a middle-class man with a legitimate job, into the antihero — a sap with a nice house, devoted wife and church habit who can’t fulfill his destiny until he starts laying down tracks for “Whoop That Trick” (née “Beat That Bitch”). Too bad that Anderson, who skewered such tropes so brilliantly in Malibu’s Most Wanted, is stuck having to do this role with a straight face. He deserves something more evolved.

And then there are the women. In a movie that almost onanistically revels in its Madonna-whore complex, Elise Neal (as Key’s wife, Yevette) has easily the most thankless role — a soulless, sexless, screechy, head-swiveling sista-girl with perfect hair and nails who initially opposes her husband’s hanging out with a pimp and his whores — how unreasonable — but who finally stops denying her own blackness and realizes that she, too, can share in the dream of “Whoop That Trick.” She comes around, literally, showing up at DJay’s ghetto studio at dinner time one evening with a platter of finger sandwiches and dill dip, suddenly as meek and compliant as one of DJay’s tricks. Speaking of which, Brewer, in another twisted attempt to inject some family values into the middle of all this, has DJay and his most devoted, downtrodden whore, Shug (the one who, under threat of pain, provides backup vocals for “Whoop That Trick”), share an Officer and a Gentleman–style kiss before DJay goes off to his big audition; she helps him on with his leather coat and places a giant gold medallion around his neck, like a loving wife sending her husband to the office with a briefcase. These are but two of many moments in Hustle that are supposed to be heartwarming, but are instead infuriatingly hollow. Then, adding insult to injury, Brewer perverts black history by conflating it with the effort to make a hit record out of “Whoop That Trick” — framing the exploitative song’s journey in can-do sentiments like “I have a dream” and “By any means necessary.” That “Whoop That Trick” serves as the movie’s sole vehicle of black ambition, the pinnacle of everybody’s dreams — black and white, male and female — is not only hackneyed, it’s toxic. Martin and Malcolm are surely turning in their graves.

All of this is presented without an ounce of context. Believe it or not, I don’t object to Terrence Howard’s character per se. I could suffer DJay’s foibles, even his tunnel vision about “Whoop That Trick,” but there’s no compelling reason why we should. DJay riffs philosophical about dogs and men in the movie’s opening moments, but that’s it for back story. He’s a pimp, Shug is a ho, Skinny Black (the usually self-deprecating Ludacris) is a snarling, profane, gold-toothed rapper — evidently just because they’re black, and because this is Memphis. The comparison has been made before, but I’ll make it again: How is it that the Mafia, America’s über-criminals, get such empathetic film treatment — think Tony Soprano’s therapy sessions and Ray Liotta’s ruminating voice-overs in GoodFellas — and black criminals get squat? The only answer is that black criminality needs no explanation, just some celluloid to blow it up to 1,000 times its actual size. Talk about inequality: Not only is there a racially defined achievement gap, salary gap and health-care gap in this country — there’s a major story gap, too, and it’s getting filled in with more bullshit every year. Admittedly, black movies have a lot of catching up to do, because they’ve always been less about story and more about entertainment — shooting and swearing having replaced shuffling and grinning as the black opiate of choice. Changing the paradigm significantly has been a near-impossible task — just ask Charles Burnett, Julie Dash, Rusty Cundieff and a host of other thoughtful story-oriented black filmmakers whose stars should have risen much higher and faster than they did.


The only good thing I can say about Hustle & Flow is how effectively it reminded me of how much black folks are still tethered to their own worst images, even when they assume they’ve made a clean break. At the movie’s end, when the lights came on, I was surprised by the exhaustion and fury I felt, the compulsion I had to stand up and say, louder than necessary for all within earshot to hear, how awful I thought the whole thing was and how glad I was to leave the theater and get back to the real real world. I felt immediately charged with changing people’s minds; DJay and his crew were as far from my own daily life as possible, but that was still, unquestionably, supposed to be me up there on the screen. Whatever my fellow moviegoers thought of my declamation, nobody challenged it. I didn’t expect them to; race is what we like to see in the dark, not talk about in the light of day. As it happens, the next day, I went to a discussion group — a salon of black people who met to talk for a couple of hours about the appointed topic: black film. It was a lively and absorbing session, but also discouraging. Too many people in the room felt that the ghetto-centric black movie was not only okay, it was — here we go again — real. Then one participant, a guy I’ll call X, told a tale about a fellow black screenwriter who was casting about for a pimp-whore-ghetto story to write and quickly cash in on. In the course of his conversation with X, the screenwriter revealed a compelling story of his own — that of a college graduate who had overcome hardships of all kinds to get an education and eventually break into the business. “Why don’t you write about that?” X asked. The writer looked at him like he was mad. “That,” he said, “is not a story.” Not true: It’s a story. It’s just not a hustle. One day we’ll figure out the difference.

I'm a believer, tellin' you I really believe
I'm a believer, even though I've never seen
I'm a believer, look at my life and you will see
I'm a believer, how can you not believe?
- Mary Mary

or someone is being critical of popular culture beause its her job.

she sounded like Craig Brewer and John Singleton pissed in her Cheerios or somethin, if she didn't like the flick, she didn't like it, but don't act like every black movie has to represent every black person in America. It was like she got personally offended that they would portray black folks like that when in reality there are people who are living just like the characters in Hustle and Flow......



I'm a believer, tellin' you I really believe
I'm a believer, even though I've never seen
I'm a believer, look at my life and you will see
I'm a believer, how can you not believe?
- Mary Mary

n/m.
Does anybody in any city outside of Memphis hear that song or "Hard out here for a Pimp" on the radio?
Serious question.

"...most sistahs only recognize a good man when he's a character in a shitty movie, a shitty play, their favorite daytime soap or a shitty book written by a homosexual."
From Reggie Eggert's online review of "Diary of a Mad Black Woman"

>she sounded like Craig Brewer and John Singleton pissed in
>her Cheerios or somethin,

not to me. she just sounded like someone who didn't like the movie.

?if she didn't like the flick, she
>didn't like it, but don't act like every black movie has to
>represent every black person in America.

she didn't say that, and she wasn't acting like that. what she was complaining about--and she stated this clearly--was the belief that movies like Hustle & Flow are somehow "real" when they don't represent anything like the lives of a lot of black people.

>It was like she got
>personally offended that they would portray black folks like
>that when in reality there are people who are living just like
>the characters in Hustle and Flow......

disagree. she didn't seem personally offened. she seemed like an adult with valid criticisms of a film.

i had no interest in seeing it.

how much does this movie really matter?

"How is it that the Mafia, America’s über-criminals, get such empathetic film treatment — think Tony Soprano’s therapy sessions and Ray Liotta’s ruminating voice-overs in GoodFellas — and black criminals get squat?"

I thought The Wire and Clockers were pretty good about this. Menace to Society and Boyz in the Hood also portrayed this well IMO. There are tons of terrible Mafia movies out there. Has there been a quality one since Goodfellas?

The biggest issue with black criminal films is that to make it truly effective, it has to be more about the socio-economic conditions which drives people into criminality and less about the actual criminal actions. That isn't going to interest many Hollywood suits.

Hustle and Flow was a solid movie that got blown up too much at Sundance. It happens all the time. This author seems to have bought into the hype and is acting like this film is the be-all, end-all of black cinema.

i just love talking about shit like this. and i find it incredible that whenever someone black criticizes something black--which, technically, this movie isn't. this is a fact that i think is lost to a lot of people--they are dismissed as being "haters" or just being angry.

And had no issues with the so-called "reality" of the movie. I usually dig Erin Kaplan's essays - the ones where she deals with on L.A. politics and their effects on the black community, which are a majority of her essays, btw - but she's way off with this one.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<---- errr-AH!


Brother's gonna work it out
Brother's gonna work it all out

>btw - but she's
>way off with this one.

to me, she's dead on.

not having seen the movie?

But even she - having seen it - is still way off.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<---- errr-AH!


Brother's gonna work it out
Brother's gonna work it all out

>not having seen the movie

i agree with her assessment of the way that white critics handle movies like this.
i agree with her frustration that black movies aren't "real" unless they have drug dealers, pimps, rappers, etc.
i share her frustration that even when black people get to star in a critical acclaimed movie, we still have to be playing the same types of characters.

sounds like she wanted to identify with the movie, but couldn't, so she figured it wasn't relective of the black experience (which pissed her off)...and therefore, not good...it's all BS, she makes a comment that all the black men are hustler, crimals or rappers, THEN mentions anthony anderson's character and forgets about issac hayes....the movie was great...i loved it...if you didn't, fine...just don't try to make the pot deeper than it is...

To be honest there is a need for cultural criticism like this in our own backyard. The movie was about a few things, but let's be real the main characters WERE pimps and hoes. The redemption in the movie can with "It's so hard being a piiiimp" playing. Whether she's off base or not it did need to be addressed and put on the table intelligently. That is all.


-------------
George Bush doesn't care about black people" - Kanye West

On Ellen, Kayne West talked about how he used to sweep dust under the sink instead of just dealing with it. In this case, he was referring to the poor, Black and underserved in New Orleans but I think this also applies to a movie like Hustle & Flow. I think it's safe for me to write that I abhor Ying Yang and Lil Jon (and I am from the south). However, I liked Hustle & Flow. What disturbed me most was the fact that the real hero in the movie was the white prostitute who was empowered to be "the boss". Yet, it was inevitable. She was the talentless one, the one who didn't have a place in the studio.

In this review I don't think Kaplan really dealt with the "dust under the sink" at all. Brewer tried to but he did not know how to deal with it in a way that was motivating or inspiring for Black folks. Like Crash, H&F does not offer any solutions but neither did Do the Right Things or Boyz n the Hood. Hustle and Flow will never be a classic but I am glad I saw it.

young brutha in his 20's
that pimped white broads
and rapped while he did it
this cat saw his life on screen

these stories dont have to be telling the stories of the MASSES, right?
just one person's story




all these movies
diary of a mad black woman
hustle & flow
whatever
they speak to someone

shit, Ray spoke to ME & i aint blind, play piano, or do smack.

>these stories dont have to be telling the stories of the
>MASSES, right?
>just one person's story

she never said anything to the contrary. the problem is that Hollywood continues to produce movies for and about black America that present a one dimensional, sometimes cartoonish view of who we are. isn't it odd that with all the inspirational stories that one could tell about a black man from the inner city, white people latched on to the one the one that has a black man being a misogynist and a criminal...again.

>all these movies
>diary of a mad black woman
>hustle & flow
>whatever
>they speak to someone

sure they do, but that doesn't mean that she has to like them. just because a movie has black faces on the screen doesn't mean that they have to speak to all black people.

isn't it odd that with all the
>inspirational stories that one could tell about a black man
>from the inner city, white people latched on to the one the
>one that has a black man being a misogynist and a
>criminal...again.

nah, she forget Ray. It won an oscar for Best Actor

>nah, she forget Ray. It won an oscar for Best Actor

she didn't forget about anything. this is an essay about Hustle & Flow. as for Ray, everyone knows that movies like that are the exception to the rule for black folks in Hollywood. that's why people were so excited about it.

>>these stories dont have to be telling the stories of the
>>MASSES, right?
>>just one person's story
>
>she never said anything to the contrary. the problem is that
>Hollywood continues to produce movies for and about black
>America that present a one dimensional, sometimes cartoonish
>view of who we are.

fuck outta here with that. that trailer ran in arthouses and malls across this damn country. i saw it with a rack of white people at a pre-screening.

and why are you soooo fuckin afraid of a country ass bamma nigga with a damn perm misrepresenting who you are to white folks? this is where me and nigga like you differ. i give white folks the benefit of the doubt to KNOW BETTER. you scared ignant ass niggas gonna make it tougher for good ones like us, who work every fuckin day and keep our shit in order? fuck all that. we're passed that stage. i rep myself.

isn't it odd that with all the
>inspirational stories that one could tell about a black man
>from the inner city, white people latched on to the one the
>one that has a black man being a misogynist and a
>criminal...again.

and this is why hankyheads like kaplan need to go see and write about movies like akeelah and the bee and let white folks know that movies like those are interesting to talk about as well.

>>all these movies
>>diary of a mad black woman
>>hustle & flow
>>whatever
>>they speak to someone
>
>sure they do, but that doesn't mean that she has to like them.
> just because a movie has black faces on the screen doesn't
>mean that they have to speak to all black people.

conversely, just because a movie has black faces on the screen doesn't mean it has to speak FOR all black people.

>and why are you soooo fuckin afraid of a country ass bamma
>nigga with a damn perm misrepresenting who you are to white
>folks?

i'm not afaid of some character in a movie misrepresenting me and i never suggested anything to that effect. in fact, i'm not AFRAID of anything to do with the movie. i'm just sick of seeing the same lame ass cliches being trotted out over and over again.

>this is where me and nigga like you differ. i give
>white folks the benefit of the doubt to KNOW BETTER.

i don't expect white people or anyone to think less of me because of Hustle & Flow. what people like you refuse to except is that there are black people out there who JUST DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT SHIT.

>and this is why hankyheads like kaplan need to go see and
>write about movies like akeelah and the bee and let white
>folks know that movies like those are interesting to talk
>about as well.

she's not a movie critic so she's not going to be writing about that many movies anyway. but she's written a ton of pieces that relate to the "black experience." so, if that's your concern, she's doing her part.

>conversely, just because a movie has black faces on the screen
>doesn't mean it has to speak FOR all black people.

agreed. and she never said that Hustle & Flow had to speak for all black people. all she did was write an essay expressing her misgivings about the movie.

I felt immediately charged with changing people’s minds; DJay and his crew were as far from my own daily life as possible, but that was still, unquestionably, supposed to be me up there on the screen


^^^^^that

do you agree with these feelings she's expressing here?

because this is the kind of mentality that i don't get from black folk like her. that movie was about a low-level memphis pimp who was disgusting with himself and his surroundings and finally decided to do aomething about it. now, what does he have to do with some hankyhead sista in cali?

non-blacks know better.

>I felt immediately charged with changing people’s minds; DJay
>and his crew were as far from my own daily life as possible,
>but that was still, unquestionably, supposed to be me up there
>on the screen
>
>
>^^^^^that
>
>do you agree with these feelings she's expressing here?

not exactly. but i understand the sentiment. there are so few representations of black people on the big screen, i don't think it's illogical to feel a twinge when something that you feel is a negative stereotype gets that much pub.

>because this is the kind of mentality that i don't get from
>black folk like her. that movie was about a low-level memphis
>pimp who was disgusting with himself and his surroundings and
>finally decided to do aomething about it. now, what does he
>have to do with some hankyhead sista in cali?

i can't speak for her, but i know there are a lot of people who feel like stories about black folks dealing drugs, pimping, rapping, etc have been done to death.

>non-blacks know better.

having spent a fair amount of my life in fly-over country...you're giving white people way too much credit.

DUDE, you haven't even seen the movie.

Get a card from Blockbuster or Hollywood Video or whatever tickles your sack and view the film FOR THE FIRST TIME, objectively.

Otherwise, shut the fuck up.

>Otherwise, shut the fuck up.

no.

>The comparison has been made before, but I’ll make it
>again: How is it that the Mafia, America’s über-criminals, get
>such empathetic film treatment — think Tony Soprano’s therapy
>sessions and Ray Liotta’s ruminating voice-overs in GoodFellas
>— and black criminals get squat? The only answer is that black
>criminality needs no explanation, just some celluloid to blow
>it up to 1,000 times its actual size.

It's been shown that films about criminals, the underworld, and despicable characters can still have some redemptive value and novel insight into our society, and especially the characters themselves. But generally when it's black criminals, even when they're the central characters they're still completely flat.

And it should be pointed out that while this author is accurately pointing out a problem in Hollywood, every argument here should be amplified x1000 times and repeated ad nauseum in regards to the current video game industry. Grand Theft Auto has started a toxic "real crime" trend that has resulted in lots of video games where the players control black thugs, running around killing, stealing, and having no reason or remorse for any of it. There's something like 4 or 5 titles that are basically just GTA -- only more hood-ified! coming out this Christmas. It's despicable. The rampant racism and sexism in the video game industry is largely ignored b/c liberals don't play the games, but I'd say video games have an almost equal effect on our culture as film nowadays.

Shit's depressing...

>Shug (the one who, under threat of pain, provides backup
>vocals for “Whoop That Trick”),

to notice any itty bitty details like that. I hope her hands don't hurt from all of that hard hand wringing.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<---- errr-AH!


Brother's gonna work it out
Brother's gonna work it all out

I hope her hands
>don't hurt from all of that hard hand wringing.

(and her white husband... okay, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that)

But if she knew, or thought she knew, what the movie was about, why did she even bother? Her mind was made up before she sat down, despite what she may have written to the contrary.

Wait, before anyone gets the bright idea to quote her in an effort to "refute my point," I'll do it for them:

>I was suspicious from the moment I read all the prerelease Hustle hype and saw the lurid billboards advertising the film, which blanketed South-Central like so many velvet paintings. Even so, I went hoping for the best; nobody has to convince me that Terrence Howard is a good actor. But 15 minutes into a showing of the film at the ArcLight Theater, I realized that not even Howard, as the movie’s pimp-rapper protagonist, DJay, could temper the fact that Hustle & Flow is bound to be the most despicable film of 2005.<

Actually, her writing actually proves my point for me. Wow, I'm pretty good.

And like I said, the movie was the second best movie of the summer, behind Batman.

Shit, now that I think about it, I may have seen the movie at the same time in the same theater she did. There were these two older black women who were talking about the movie as everyone was walking out. If I remember, one loved the film, said it was uplifting and showed that anyone has the right to a dream, no matter what they do (ding! ding! ding!), while the other just had her mind made up: "Well... I just thought it was... just terrible... just... ugh..."
___________________________________________________________________________________________
<---- errr-AH!


Brother's gonna work it out
Brother's gonna work it all out

...she probably wrote half of that before she saw one frame of the movie.

Only thing I agree with is her point about black pathology being marketed to the masses as normal.

its like black folks don't wanna accept that.
“The spirituality of which I speak in principle, I have never attained to.” (c) wesley

>>Elise Neal (as Key’s wife, Yevette) has easily the most thankless role — a soulless, sexless, screechy, head-swiveling sista-girl with perfect hair and nails who initially opposes her husband’s hanging out with a pimp and his whores — how unreasonable — but who finally stops denying her own blackness and realizes that she, too, can share in the dream of “Whoop That Trick.”<<<<

her reluctance never related to her blackness to me at all. it was the natural skepticism any wife would have to her husband hanging out in a houser full of hoes.

the writer has a complex, that's got him carrying glocks and tecks (c) chino xl
“The spirituality of which I speak in principle, I have never attained to.” (c) wesley

nm

I'm a believer, tellin' you I really believe
I'm a believer, even though I've never seen
I'm a believer, look at my life and you will see
I'm a believer, how can you not believe?
- Mary Mary

how can she compare how Sopranos vs. images in Hustle & Flow?
Has she not seen Sugar Hill? Hoodlum? or even New Jack City for that matter? All had characters who were seemingly normal, productive citizens unless you knew what they actually did.

I think anytime a movie comes along with questionable images, people want to throw the baby out with the bathwater by condemning every film that's ever been made.

It's cool she didn't like the film, but it's too bad she didn't get any of the positive out of it.

David Banner's movement to Heal The Hood
Aid for the victims of Hurricane Katrina
www.healthehood.com

nm

>Has she not seen Sugar Hill? Hoodlum? or even New Jack City
>for that matter? All had characters who were seemingly normal,
>productive citizens unless you knew what they actually did.

yeah. if you hadn't seen Nino Brown running shit up in The Carter, you could easily mistake him for a NASCAR dad.

it didn't matter
____________________
www.myspace.com/chamilton

Michael: George Michael, I’m sure that Egg is a very nice person. I just don’t want you spending all your money...

George Michael: Ann.

Michael: ... getting her all glittered up for Easter, you know?

1. She is ashamed of this film. (You shouldn't have told me that she is married to a white man) It might not be fair to say, but I would guess she is ashamed of black people who live like this. You know the thought of watching this with her husband makes her skin crawl.

2. Her critic relies on oversimplification/reductionism. Anthony Anderson's character is not a hen pecked sellout. His wife's character was not a shrill, hysterical nag. She was right to be upset with her husband hanging with pimps n' hoes and the movie did not portray her unfavorably.

3. As annoyed as this critic is with H&F, I am annoyed by the slew of The Best Man's Love Jones for Brown Sugar in the Wood. The critic is right that most critics are incapable of reviewing black movies, but I feel that it is too often the case that they give passes to these shallow black romantic comedies where every one is beautiful and has great jobs, by saying at least it give "refreshing images" of black people. It was refreshing the first time out, by "Two Can Play That Game" had me jonesing for a movie about a memphis pimp instead of another black romantic comedy featuring Morris Chestnutt.

4. I personally hate when criticism is driven by moral imperatives especially at the sacrifice of realism. The truth is, there will probably be a slew of poorly made films about pimps and hoes and I will hate them like this critic. However, her sense of morality does not permit her to like any film about pimps and hoes that is not a morality tale. I think sense of morality is threatening to being a good critic.

**********

Reality check: according to the 2000 census, there were more than 31,000 black physicians and surgeons, 33,000 black lawyers. There are about 1,400 black athletes playing professional basketball, football and baseball combined.

Pass the popcorn and leave the soapbox at home.

>1. She is ashamed of this film. (You shouldn't have told me
>that she is married to a white man) It might not be fair to
>say, but I would guess she is ashamed of black people who live
>like this. You know the thought of watching this with her
>husband makes her skin crawl.

you're making 3 huge leaps about her as a person based on nothing more than her dislike of one movie. i don't think i have to say any more about that.

>3. As annoyed as this critic is with H&F, I am annoyed by the
>slew of The Best Man's Love Jones for Brown Sugar in the Wood.
>The critic is right that most critics are incapable of
>reviewing black movies, but I feel that it is too often the
>case that they give passes to these shallow black romantic
>comedies where every one is beautiful and has great jobs, by
>saying at least it give "refreshing images" of black people.

i couldn't agree more. my wife and i call those "anti-stereotype stereotypes." and those movies actually annoy me more because it allows white people to feel they're off the hook.

>It was refreshing the first time out, by "Two Can Play That
>Game" had me jonesing for a movie about a memphis pimp instead
>of another black romantic comedy featuring Morris Chestnutt.

where that logic breaks down is that we've seen WAAAAAY more black pimps at the movies than we have black romantic comedies.

>4. I personally hate when criticism is driven by moral
>imperatives especially at the sacrifice of realism. I think
>sense of morality is threatening to being a good critic.

see, i think that a lot of people really dislike or disagree with her as a critic, and then make unfair judgements on her as a person. it's like peole automatically discount the option that maybe she just thought it was an awful movie and immediately label her some self-hating sellout.

for the record, i didn't see it. it just didn't look interesting to me.

people like this are becoming a fuckin parody of themselves.

YO THOUGHTS... YO THOUGHTS... YO THOUGHTS AIN'T MY THOUGHTS!!
BITCH, I'M FLOWIN' STRAIGHT FROM THE SURVIVAL SCROLLS!!!

CUT THAT BITCH OFF!!!!

cause this movie right here...

>In the course of his
>conversation with X, the screenwriter revealed a compelling
>story of his own — that of a college graduate who had overcome
>hardships of all kinds to get an education and eventually
>break into the business.

...would make about twelve dollars at the box office.

as for her beef with hustle and flow, what's really harmful to black films is people like her who demand that every black character in every movie is a fair representation of all black people. if every black movie that opens is greeted with a crowd of black folks complaining that the characters are too poor or too rich or too violent or too sanitized, eventually hollywood is gonna stop making black films, or at least stop making challenging ones.

the truth is, A LOT of black people suffer a similar standard of living to the characters in hustle and flow... too many. so is it really that despicable to tell their story in a measured and thoughtful film, or would she rather we ignore them completely and hope some hurricane takes care of that problem for us?

personally, i was surprised at how exploitative hustle and flow WASN'T. nothing about djay's lifestyle was glorified-- even he hated what he saw in the mirror-- except his passion for pursuing his dream, a passion that spread to every other character in the movie. i'll say it again, the DREAM and the PASSION is what's glorified in hustle and flow, not the lifestyle. yeah, the dream happened to be rapper, but in reality for MANY poor black folks, rapper is one of maybe four attractive options they see themselves presented with.

i thought hustle and flow was one of the best films of 2005, black or otherwise, and it's a real shame that so many people's kneejerk reaction to any film with poor black folks in it is to cry exploitation. it's just a way to avoid facing the issues head-on. it'd be just like someone saying that all those poor black folks on TV in the aftermath of katrina were a product of exploitation by the white media, as opposed to facing reality and saying, "holy shit, there's a LOT of poor black folks in america. maybe we should do something about it."

>personally, i was surprised at how exploitative hustle and
>flow WASN'T. nothing about djay's lifestyle was glorified--
>even he hated what he saw in the mirror-- except his passion
>for pursuing his dream, a passion that spread to every other
>character in the movie. i'll say it again, the DREAM and the
>PASSION is what's glorified in hustle and flow, not the
>lifestyle. yeah, the dream happened to be rapper, but in
>reality for MANY poor black folks, rapper is one of maybe four
>attractive options they see themselves presented with.
>
>i thought hustle and flow was one of the best films of 2005,
>black or otherwise, and it's a real shame that so many
>people's kneejerk reaction to any film with poor black folks
>in it is to cry exploitation.

I cannot tell you how many people I talked to had who an objection to the "content" of the film, and hadn't even seen it. They just knew that it was "about a pimp." And the sad fact is that these are creative folk who would really have related to DJay's story had they just given the movie a chance. They like to create but are stuck in dead-end jobs so they feel trapped -- just like DJay. But because he's a pimp that makes it a no-no. I mean, how DARE a pimp, of all people in "our community," have a dream.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Hey there
Lay there
Won't you take me home?
I'll write your name in a song

>>I mean, how DARE a pimp, of all people
>in "our community," have a dream.

i think
the definitive opinion on hustle and flow
will be 5 to 10 years from now


like how we now realize what a shit film titanic was
maybe hustle and flow is good
maybe it isnt


what it definitely isn't at this very moment is The Definitive Black Experience (tm).

and when you make a picture like this, you've got to be ready for some backlash.

because we aren't well represented in film.
what were the other "black" films of last year?
hell, what black films are there this year (oh, akeelah and the bee. um. well, even though the year is practically half over, maybe we'll get another!) of course i could be missing some films. i'm sure you'll let me know what i missed.

oh madea, and that preaching movie.
i'm tingling from my fine cinematic options.

and because we aren't well represented and white people generally don't care to know the onion layers of the black experience, there are some really foolish people making judgements on you and me from that movie. and that pisses me off.

<< “black enough” still means blackness approved by a predominantly white mainstream culture.>>

absolutely false. in fact, it's a fucking stupid statement. degrees of blackness are judged by the black community. destiny child don't want a "soldier" because that's what they're reading in cosmo and allure. fuck outta here. blacks follow blacks. whites follow blacks following blacks. that's american pop-culture. always has been.

<<like My Big Fat Greek Wedding,>>

and this is the problem i have with fuckin uppity boho hankyhead santimonious fuckin negroes. every fuckin ethnicity can indulge and celebrate their fucking stereotype except "NIGGERS"!!! i'm fucking sick of this shit. i think it's fuckin beautiful how niggas curse and laugh and bullshit amongst themselves. there's nothing better than seeing a white person take in the sight of black family being "BLACK!!!" and having the dumb ass look of wonder, like the life they're living is fucking BORING. yeah, isn't it great how italians and greeks and jews can be loud and crass and fuck and people call it "enjoying life" but when niggas do it it's an unpardonable sin? it's disgusting and i wish black folk would stop apologizing.

fuck her.

and before someone throws about a pathetic ass red herring about me endorsing niggas shooting each other and kids fuckin up in school as black culture, go blow yourself.

nm

that muhfucka wrote sprung and fear of a black hat.

not only were they bad movies, but they were coon-worthy. and not the good kinda cooning either. it was the kind that falls flat, like some shit malcolm jamal warner would write.

that chick lost. nick, stop tryna push her dumb ass arguments.

>skewered such tropes so brilliantly in Malibu’s Most Wanted

i stopped reading after this sentence.

although i do agree with some of what this writer is saying...

some of you are being hoodwinked and don't even realize it. i agree with the writer. imo, she's not coming off as some uppity negroe, but as someone that understands the game hollywood plays with creating films about us that are nothing more than stereotypes and caricatures that are supposed to reflect 90% of the black experience. "h&f" does NOTHING to detract from that game hollywood plays. the writer is white, the characters lack any kind of depth or development, it's simple modern day stepin' fetchit cinema, dirty south style. "hustle.." was made to appease the black crowd that gets off on emotions and not intelligence while schooling the white audience about the "authentic" black experience in the hood. that's bullshit, but most of you cats buy into it, not understanding that MOST of our cinema is based on stereotypes. the difference with this flick is that it was done at a slower pace, which gives it a different feel and makes the audience think they're seeing something that they actually aren't.

these days, i cringe at my black movie choices. it's either the anti-stereotype, "deliver us from eva" flicks, or bullshit movies like this one. it never ceases to amaze me how we can't see more films of substance like "eve's bayou". and before most people say a flick like "eve's..." wouldn't do well at the box office, how do you really know if it's never even given a chance?

>some of you are being hoodwinked and don't even realize it.
>i agree with the writer. imo, she's not coming off as some
>uppity negroe, but as someone that understands the game
>hollywood plays with creating films about us that are nothing
>more than stereotypes and caricatures that are supposed to
>reflect 90% of the black experience.

in NO way, shape or form does the film imply that it's a reflection of the black experience...in fact, peolpe need to stop thinking that every movie that stars black folks is supposed to represent the race itself, or has any notions of doin such...motherfuckers don't watch MI3 or RV and think "well that's how white people live"


"h&f" does NOTHING to
>detract from that game hollywood plays. the writer is white,
>the characters lack any kind of depth or development, it's
>simple modern day stepin' fetchit cinema, dirty south style.
>"hustle.." was made to appease the black crowd that gets off
>on emotions and not intelligence while schooling the white
>audience about the "authentic" black experience in the hood.
>that's bullshit, but most of you cats buy into it, not
>understanding that MOST of our cinema is based on stereotypes.
> the difference with this flick is that it was done at a
>slower pace, which gives it a different feel and makes the
>audience think they're seeing something that they actually
>aren't.
>
you reachin....it's about a dude wit a dream and how that dream affects him and the people around him...THAT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DEEP....niggas goin to see H&F and expectin to see Roots are some non comprehensive folks...and what movies do ANYTHING to detract from the hollywood game?? every once and a while a few ar made, but the key is FEW...where do see "stepin' fetchit" ?? niggas grow up watching fuckin knight rider and act like they were watching amos n andy...go sit down....and i HOPE you're not sayin that films like Menace and Boyz are better cause they were made by black guys and therefore better represent "the experience"...if so...i'm sorry your brain works like that...and most hollywood is based on one strereotype or another, so you might wanna recognize game before pointin fingers

>these days, i cringe at my black movie choices. it's either
>the anti-stereotype, "deliver us from eva" flicks, or bullshit
>movies like this one. it never ceases to amaze me how we
>can't see more films of substance like "eve's bayou". and
>before most people say a flick like "eve's..." wouldn't do
>well at the box office, how do you really know if it's never
>even given a chance?

i hear you on this part, there should be more choices, but the studios don't think stuff like "eve's" will make money and only an good indie film will ever prove them wrong...

>in NO way, shape or form does the film imply that it's a
>reflection of the black experience...in fact, peolpe need to
>stop thinking that every movie that stars black folks is
>supposed to represent the race itself, or has any notions of
>doin such...motherfuckers don't watch MI3 or RV and think
>"well that's how white people live"

that's bullshit. the writer himself said he was trying to portray black life in its true form, so you're waaaay off base on this one. and while i don't expect every flick that has black people in it to represent the race, i don't expect every black flick to be a motion picture stereotype either. it could be me, but that' the way i roll.
>
>you reachin....it's about a dude wit a dream and how that
>dream affects him and the people around him...THAT'S NOT
>SUPPOSED TO BE DEEP....niggas goin to see H&F and expectin to
>see Roots are some non comprehensive folks...and what movies
>do ANYTHING to detract from the hollywood game??

don't even try to insult my intelligence with the roots line. that pretty much lets me know where your head is at. and what the fuck are you talking about? are you insinuating that EVERY flick ever made plays into the hollywood game? how many movies have you actually seen? obviously not many to come with that line...

every once
>and a while a few ar made, but the key is FEW...where do see
>"stepin' fetchit" ?? niggas grow up watching fuckin knight
>rider and act like they were watching amos n andy...go sit
>down....and i HOPE you're not sayin that films like Menace and
>Boyz are better cause they were made by black guys and
>therefore better represent "the experience"...if so...i'm
>sorry your brain works like that...and most hollywood is based
>on one strereotype or another, so you might wanna recognize
>game before pointin fingers

uh-oh, do i sense contradiction? figures...and where the fuck does the nightrider/amos-n-andy comparison come from? did you have tv when you were kid? and sense you're talking it there, both "menace and boyz" were more fully developed hood flicks. and the black writing played a large part in that. lol at you for defending some what cat who made caricatures out of black people. like i said, i know where you head is at on this one...and you're telling me i might wanna recognize game? ha!ha!ha!
>
>i hear you on this part, there should be more choices, but the
>studios don't think stuff like "eve's" will make money and
>only an good indie film will ever prove them wrong...

that too is bullshit. black flicks that go beyond the hood or the i'm-the-too-rich-negro joints don't get the love because the brass in hollywood don't feel that it relates to the reality of black life, nothing more. granted, we have a long way to go in cinema, but we've been down this road before with flicks in the tradition of "eve's bayou"...and they were all pretty damn successful at the box office.

>>in NO way, shape or form does the film imply that it's a
>>reflection of the black experience...in fact, peolpe need to
>>stop thinking that every movie that stars black folks is
>>supposed to represent the race itself, or has any notions of
>>doin such...motherfuckers don't watch MI3 or RV and think
>>"well that's how white people live"
>
>that's bullshit. the writer himself said he was trying to
>portray black life in its true form, so you're waaaay off base
>on this one. and while i don't expect every flick that has
>black people in it to represent the race, i don't expect every
>black flick to be a motion picture stereotype either. it
>could be me, but that' the way i roll.
>>

the film only really delved into the lives of two black households...one was a pimp's and the other was a guy wanting to help a pimp out....i didn't think brewer would actually try to say these two household's represented anything involved wit "black life"...it surely didn't come across that way on screen to..but hey i didn't know that was his intention...but name these films, black or white, that don't have stereotypes?? i'm not saying it's a good thing, but i AM saying it's a commom practice that many movies are about the same old shit...




>>you reachin....it's about a dude wit a dream and how that
>>dream affects him and the people around him...THAT'S NOT
>>SUPPOSED TO BE DEEP....niggas goin to see H&F and expectin
>to
>>see Roots are some non comprehensive folks...and what movies
>>do ANYTHING to detract from the hollywood game??
>
>don't even try to insult my intelligence with the roots line.
>that pretty much lets me know where your head is at. and what
>the fuck are you talking about? are you insinuating that
>EVERY flick ever made plays into the hollywood game? how many
>movies have you actually seen? obviously not many to come
>with that line...
>
so...you have no respone to THE FACT that movies FROM hollywood of course end up playin to hollywood game..you'd rather throw insults...ok..

>every once
>>and a while a few ar made, but the key is FEW...where do see
>>"stepin' fetchit" ?? niggas grow up watching fuckin knight
>>rider and act like they were watching amos n andy...go sit
>>down....and i HOPE you're not sayin that films like Menace
>and
>>Boyz are better cause they were made by black guys and
>>therefore better represent "the experience"...if so...i'm
>>sorry your brain works like that...and most hollywood is
>based
>>on one strereotype or another, so you might wanna recognize
>>game before pointin fingers
>
>uh-oh, do i sense contradiction? figures...and where the fuck
>does the nightrider/amos-n-andy comparison come from? did you
>have tv when you were kid? and sense you're talking it there,
>both "menace and boyz" were more fully developed hood flicks.
>and the black writing played a large part in that. lol at you
>for defending some what cat who made caricatures out of black
>people. like i said, i know where you head is at on this
>one...and you're telling me i might wanna recognize game?
>ha!ha!ha!
>>
"more fully developed hood flicks"...is that an oxymoron?? still throwin insults...no real anwers...are you sayin gthat many of the characters in those other hood movies made by black folks AREN'T caricatures?? your ruining your own points homie...

>>i hear you on this part, there should be more choices, but
>the
>>studios don't think stuff like "eve's" will make money and
>>only an good indie film will ever prove them wrong...
>
>that too is bullshit. black flicks that go beyond the hood or
>the i'm-the-too-rich-negro joints don't get the love because
>the brass in hollywood don't feel that it relates to the
>reality of black life, nothing more. granted, we have a long
>way to go in cinema, but we've been down this road before with
>flicks in the tradition of "eve's bayou"...and they were all
>pretty damn successful at the box office.

i musta missed something, cause all i know is at the end of the day hollywood wants to make money...if they think they can make loot from stuff like "eve's" (i NEVER heard it making alotta money at the box office, but..whatever) they would make it...it's not THAT serious...if they didn't wanna make serious black movies at all they wouldn't let the biopics thru the gate, cause they are the most serious black realted thing hollywood works wit...biopics bring in alotta money, and the ones about black folks will course involve "the black experience", so i'm not understanding why you think hollywood even cares about "black life"..they simply don't think more serious, non biopic movies will make money..and they are wrong...

>the film only really delved into the lives of two black
>households...one was a pimp's and the other was a guy wanting
>to help a pimp out....i didn't think brewer would actually try
>to say these two household's represented anything involved wit
>"black life"...it surely didn't come across that way on screen
>to..but hey i didn't know that was his intention...but name
>these films, black or white, that don't have stereotypes?? i'm
>not saying it's a good thing, but i AM saying it's a commom
>practice that many movies are about the same old shit...

you REALLY need to read brewer's comments. most of the films that are based on stereotypes involve people of color; even the white flicks. most white films devoid of people color are more about fantasy, not stereotypes. and if anything, name the white films that don't have people of color that are full of stereotypes.
>
>so...you have no respone to THE FACT that movies FROM
>hollywood of course end up playin to hollywood game..you'd
>rather throw insults...ok..

dude, you're beating a dead horse. i've already said that most films involving people of color are nothing but stereotypes most of the times. it's always been that way, and until we make changes ourselves, will probably always be that way.
>
>"more fully developed hood flicks"...is that an oxymoron??
>still throwin insults...no real anwers...are you sayin gthat
>many of the characters in those other hood movies made by
>black folks AREN'T caricatures?? your ruining your own points
>homie...

dude please...you're playing yourself. "menace..." was loosely based on a scorcese flick. "good fellas" is a (white) hood flick, as is "casino" and even "raging bull". the fact is, just because a film is a hood movie doesn't mean it can't have characters that are developed. that wasn't the case with "hustle..." now was it?
>
>i musta missed something, cause all i know is at the end of
>the day hollywood wants to make money...if they think they can
>make loot from stuff like "eve's" (i NEVER heard it making
>alotta money at the box office, but..whatever) they would make
>it...it's not THAT serious...if they didn't wanna make serious
>black movies at all they wouldn't let the biopics thru the
>gate, cause they are the most serious black realted thing
>hollywood works wit...biopics bring in alotta money, and the
>ones about black folks will course involve "the black
>experience", so i'm not understanding why you think hollywood
>even cares about "black life"..they simply don't think more
>serious, non biopic movies will make money..and they are
>wrong...

i never said "eve's..." made a lot of money at the box office. what i said was that "eve's..." is in the tradition of black films of the past (jd's revenge, the educatio of sonny carson, cotton comes to harlem, five on the black hand side, uptown saturday night/let's do it again, and even car wash) that did well at the box office despite not being known as ghetto/hood flicks. the difference is that hollywood was more accepting in promoting those movies and the mindset of the black audience was open to checking for such films.

well agree to disagree cause this convo is just goin in circles...but i'm sure we can both agre on the fact that H&F isn't a great movie and black cinema could be alot better...

>well agree to disagree cause this convo is just goin in
>circles...

we can agree to disagree. it doesn't mean either one of us is wrong, we just have different opinions...

but i'm sure we can both agre on the fact that H&F
>isn't a great movie and black cinema could be alot better...

most definately on both counts...

crime dramas or comedies?

Malibu's most wanted was some offensive bullshit, tho. Hustle and flow was just to qoute a friend "Hollywood's Nigger Rocky movie".