Sometimes I feel as if my tastes are caught between King_Friday and Orbit_Established--the snob who proclaims a love for Iranian films while getting beat up by the guy rehearsing lines from Evil Dead 2. It's as though I got a pair of devils on my shoulder: to the left sits Joel Silver and to the right you'll find Fassbinder. (No disrespect intended to any okp and only partial disrespect meant for Kiarostami.)

I treasure John Hughes and Jean-Luc Godard the same. I think Scream is on page with the same greatness as Diabolique, while Ghostbusters is up there with The Exterminating Angel . At once I self-consciously value experimental subtitled allegories, but then I may try to justify Three Ninjas Kick Back as a great artistic achievement.

All helplines aside, am I alone?

Is there a movie that the "elitists" and the "bottom-dwellers" can enjoy equally?

I'm gonna go with The Wild Bunch for a starting suggestion.

>Is there a movie that the "elitists" and the "bottom-dwellers"
>can enjoy equally?

or would you say it's too long for a generation with a limited attention span?

btw, I can live without Godard, but I shudder to imagine a life without John Hughes

>or would you say it's too long for a generation with a limited
>attention span?

I guess someone could lodge a compalint that it's too slow and that for a time--although not as much as Part 2--it features subtitles (but that section in Italy is supplemented by some great Sicilian boobs).

>btw, I can live without Godard, but I shudder to imagine a
>life without John Hughes

I don't watch Breathless or Contempt as often as I watch The Breakfast Club or Sixteen Candles, but they're both of near-equal importance to my movie palette.

wearing that silly-ass mustache, pinning a ribbon on her while saying "You've got some GREAT Sicilian boobs!"

Michael's just sittin there like "What the fuck?"

People are willing to sit and wait a little longer when they feel like they are partaking in this huge, cool pop cultural thing. Godfather is a great candidate. So is Part 2 really.

Personally I like to pretend 1 & 2 are all one long movie. If you switch DVDs quickly enough, it's almost believable.

I'd venture to say most of the ptp regulars feel pretty stuck in the middle as well.

I thought of The Godfathers (I and II) as well. Also, how 'bout:

City of God
Rear Window
La Haine



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The fruits of my DVD binges: http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kurlyswirl

I be Scrobblin': http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/TasteeTreat/

>City of God

subtitles

>Rear Window

black and white

>La Haine

subtitles AND black and white

(i'm still trying to get one of my friends to watch City of God, but he said he'll only watch a dubbed version)

>(i'm still trying to get one of my friends to watch City of
>God, but he said he'll only watch a dubbed version)

That is pathetic. Drop him. lol


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

The fruits of my DVD binges: http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kurlyswirl

I be Scrobblin': http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/TasteeTreat/

oh how the great ones fall!

(c) The Critic

but I haven't forgotten all the good times we had here, back when you posted as richie_BAKER

At least you didn't say Gone With The Wind was a Vietnam picture.

>but I haven't forgotten all the good times we had here, back
>when you posted as richie_BAKER

Don't give me new ideas for usernames.

>Don't give me new ideas for usernames.

Mech

ok you got me

City of God and La Haine are FAR from conventional, and both use subtitles. These would probably disorient/discourage your layman moviewatcher.

And Rear Window, while I love it, is very meticulously paced, and a person has said to me before about it "I appreciate what he's doing with the direction, but nothing really HAPPENS until the end!" So I doubt that'd work either.

... and I said the same about Vertigo. YOU HEARD ME, PTP!

His went along the line of "Yeah, I love a movie where we watch a guy sitting on his ass for 2 hours watching people. Have Hitchcock make a movie of me watching Rear Window."

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=41190&mesg_id=41190&listing_type=search#41196

Shooting down all three of my choices an' shit.

I guess I AM a film snob, because I wasn't even thinking about City of God and La Haine being subtitled and/or black & white.

Okay, how about:

High Fidelity
Say Anything
Rushmore
The Royal Tenenbaums
The Triplets of Belleville
Fargo


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The fruits of my DVD binges: http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kurlyswirl

I be Scrobblin': http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/TasteeTreat/

Cuz it's hard to get adults to see ANY animated film. It's shallowminded, but it's the truth.

Not to mention it's French.

And fucking weird.

I really REALLY dug it though.

Well, at least it doesn't have subtitles.

And...I don't necessarily agree about that getting adults to see an animated film thing...at least not in Triplets' case. It was in theatre(s) here for MONTHS.



~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

The fruits of my DVD binges: http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kurlyswirl

I be Scrobblin': http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/TasteeTreat/

a base layman crowd.

...got some of the laymen's asses in the arthouse theatre. Or at least got them to rent the DVD.

>a base layman crowd.


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

The fruits of my DVD binges: http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kurlyswirl

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.

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The fruits of my DVD binges: http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kurlyswirl

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>High Fidelity

colonelk is a mini KF and he doesn't like this movie.

>Say Anything

still haven't seen it.

>Rushmore

I think OE doesn't like this one, may have called it "too clever for its own sake" or something.

>The Royal Tenenbaums

I know plenty of people who came back scratching their heads.

>The Triplets of Belleville

French, right?

>Fargo

Another wise selection perhaps, although you're forgetting that if certain movies weren't made before 1979 or don't feel like they were directed in the exact style as someone directing before 1979, then that automatically nixes them.

Why didn't you just title this post, "Hey K_F, colonelk, Ellipsis/Sight and Sound and O_E! Get your asses in here and figure out which film(s) you all like."?



>>Say Anything
>
>still haven't seen it.

I feel sorry for you.



~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

The fruits of my DVD binges: http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kurlyswirl

I be Scrobblin': http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/TasteeTreat/

>Why didn't you just title this post, "Hey K_F, colonelk,
>Ellipsis/Sight and Sound and O_E! Get your asses in here and
>figure out which film(s) you all like."?

LOL

They're just my basis for the ying and yang, cinematically-speaking.

But I never said Ellipsis--how dare you call him a snob! (I'd consider adding ZooTown to OE's side).

Plus, if i titled the post that, someone would probably delete it.


>>>Say Anything
>>
>>still haven't seen it.
>
>I feel sorry for you.

And how long did it take for you to see Fast Times at Ridgemont High?

>But I never said Ellipsis--how dare you call him a snob!

Hey, I didn't call him a snob. Maybe you just think I was implying that because you think that of him! :-D


(I'd
>consider adding ZooTown to OE's side).

Works for me. lol

>
>Plus, if i titled the post that, someone would probably delete
>it.

Eh...it's more than one person, at least.


>And how long did it take for you to see Fast Times at
>Ridgemont High?

Touche! But at least I finally saw it, didn't I?


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

The fruits of my DVD binges: http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kurlyswirl

I be Scrobblin': http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/TasteeTreat/

slot number 26

>>And how long did it take for you to see Fast Times at
>>Ridgemont High?
>
>Touche! But at least I finally saw it, didn't I?

Bar none the most easily accessible Hitchcock movie to the average Joe Q. Moviegoer, with some great suspense, a very witty script, and an action sequence atop a national monument.

The suspense doesn't play on physiologically complexities as much as a Vertigo might. It moves more than Rear Window. And it's in color, unlike Notorious or Psycho. It's got some action, some swagger, some intelligence, some romance, and a credits sequence and score to appeal to the high art crowd. The only strike I can see put against it is that it's too-slow to start early on, in the first 30 minutes or so. And for some reason I remember a recent post riding against it here. *goes to search*


>Bar none the most easily accessible Hitchcock movie to the
>average Joe Q. Moviegoer, with some great suspense, a very
>witty script, and an action sequence atop a national
>monument.

I always ride for it, so whoever is against is, in my humble opinion, a goddamned fool.

>I always ride for it, so whoever is against is, in my humble
>opinion, a goddamned fool.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=41190&mesg_id=41190&listing_type=search#43274

Is that by today's standards it is paced a little slowly.

Personally, I love it...

Maybe 'To Catch a Thief' would make a good candidate as well.

But it does have Grace Kelly looking beyond fine.

If we are going for the pacing issue, my vote might go to Strangers on a Train, but I must once again mention that it is my favorite Hitchcock film.

Mech

Mech

*ducks at mere mention of the movie*

Think back to that last line, as Ed Norton watches America on the brink of destruction and says to Helena Bonham Carter,
"I'm sorry... you met me at a very strange time in my life." Sometimes I feel like that.


Plus, at a point between watching Week-End and Liquid Sky, I guess I frayed some important grey matter.
But I'm really just a fragile 20 year-old caught between the moon and Sacramento, wearing only a blue hoodie and a sick grin.

*cues up Christopher Cross*

Arthur, he does as he pleases
All of his life his master's toys
And deep in his heart he's just
He's just a boy
Living his life one day at a time
He's showing himself a pretty good time
He's laughing about the way
They want him to be





























Why the fuck did you suggest The Corruptor?

It has a lot of themes about exotification that utilize the conventual fish out of water plot and ultimately turn it on it's head. On one hand I think it's funny that it's almost mandatory that Chow Yun Fat has to die at the end of a cop film but on the other hand I'm glad it left no room for a sequel and let the story stand at where it was. These are some of the artistic reasons I appreciate the film, consider it a big personal influence and think you can have an intellectual discussion about the film after you see it.

All that aside, it's got some funny lines, the always charismatic Chow Yun Fat, a sick ass car chase and a crazy fucked up gang that's fun to watch murder and maim. Basically, anyone who enjoys action films could easily have a great time with the film.

Now, the film aside, I didn't realize you were only 20. Here's my advice, look at intellectual films the same way you do popcorn fluff and everything in between. No matter what the subject matter, it's fun to sit back and let a film wash over you. With the exception of documentaries (and maybe not even documentaries) you're just supposed to enjoy watching the story unfold. The way you watch Independence Day is the same way you watch Z, the only thing that's different is the conversation afterwards and all that's important is that you have something new to talk / think about.

Mech

>It has a lot of themes about exotification that utilize the
>conventual fish out of water plot and ultimately turn it on
>it's head. On one hand I think it's funny that it's almost
>mandatory that Chow Yun Fat has to die at the end of a cop
>film but on the other hand I'm glad it left no room for a
>sequel and let the story stand at where it was. These are
>some of the artistic reasons I appreciate the film, consider
>it a big personal influence and think you can have an
>intellectual discussion about the film after you see it.
>
>All that aside, it's got some funny lines, the always
>charismatic Chow Yun Fat, a sick ass car chase and a crazy
>fucked up gang that's fun to watch murder and maim.
>Basically, anyone who enjoys action films could easily have a
>great time with the film.

But if you say so, I will seek it out.

>Now, the film aside, I didn't realize you were only 20.
>Here's my advice, look at intellectual films the same way you
>do popcorn fluff and everything in between. No matter what
>the subject matter, it's fun to sit back and let a film wash
>over you. With the exception of documentaries (and maybe not
>even documentaries) you're just supposed to enjoy watching the
>story unfold. The way you watch Independence Day is the same
>way you watch Z, the only thing that's different is the
>conversation afterwards and all that's important is that you
>have something new to talk / think about.
>
>Mech

I don't think these posts are really indicative of any major "issue" I'm having. I can tell if I like a movie and why, and know how to watch them. It's just keyboard functions and binary numbers after all. But I think you bring up a good point about how you may watch the movies the same, but afterward the conversation could be different. I would also add, as in the case of Roger Ebert's current dilemmas (see: The Longest Yard), it might be necessary to assume a certain movie has a certain set of expectations for its audience; expectations would differ from, as Ebert puts it, a Bergman movie and Dark Water. So there is some distinction in how you approach the film beforehand as well.

Me and you see Marky Whalberg and think "Why waste my money?" but what you get is an intelligent film that also fun. Some people see Robocop, Total Recall and Starship Troopers as blood filled action films but what you get are allegories for capitalism and fascism. Dark Water, which I haven't seen yet, has already been called a good film about urban isolation.

I'm not saying you can't judge a book by it's cover when it comes to Hollywood but you can judge all films by the same criteria which is, one, is it entertaining, and two, does the story work. So, I can't really say "Judge the film by the intentions of the director/studio", instead just judge it on it's own merits which is basically is it entertaining.

But, to go back to my point in the previous post, what is entertaining and how something is entertaining can be gauged by the your thoughts/conversations following the film.

Mech

>Sometimes I feel as if my tastes are caught between
>King_Friday and Orbit_Established--the snob who proclaims a
>love for Iranian films while getting beat up by the guy
>rehearsing lines from Evil Dead 2.

I don't feel like I'm a snob.

>Is there a movie that the "elitists" and the "bottom-dwellers"
>can enjoy equally?
>

Yeah.

Night Of The Living Dead, Dawn Of The Dead, and Day Of The Dead.

Art film buffs like them because of the social political themes and the low budget independent feel, non-film buff moviegoers like them because of the well-executed genre content (blood, action, zombies).

No.

Do you like The Velvet Underground?

>Do you like The Velvet Underground?

yup

*throws on Venus in Furs*

>>Do you like The Velvet Underground?
>
>yup
>
>*throws on Venus in Furs*
>

My favorite Velvet Underground album is "The Velvet Underground". That's the one with "Some Kinda Love", "Pale Blue Eyes", "Beginning To See The Light" and all that stuff on it.

So there.

There is a high correllation, that goes without saying, but one is not the same as the other. For example, saying "The Velvet Underground" puts you in an "I like foreign films for there class" category if we go by direct categorization, whereas loving "White Light/White Heat" puts you in an "I like foreign films cause they are difficult to enjoy/make sense out of, and since I like them I have higher understanding of them then you" category. They use the amp as an instrument man, the amp as an instrument!

>>Sometimes I feel as if my tastes are caught between
>>King_Friday and Orbit_Established--the snob who proclaims a
>>love for Iranian films while getting beat up by the guy
>>rehearsing lines from Evil Dead 2.
>
>I don't feel like I'm a snob.

I wouldn't think of it as a dirty word.

>>Is there a movie that the "elitists" and the
>"bottom-dwellers"
>>can enjoy equally?
>>
>
>Yeah.
>
>Night Of The Living Dead, Dawn Of The Dead, and Day Of The
>Dead.

Which one do I start with?

>Art film buffs like them because of the social political
>themes and the low budget independent feel, non-film buff
>moviegoers like them because of the well-executed genre
>content (blood, action, zombies).

That's why I suggested someone like Peckinpah--there's enough violence to attract one crowd and enough subtext to win over the other.

Goodfellas
Casino
Jaws
Do The Right Thing
The Exorcist
Traffic
Se7en
Being John Malkovich
Rocky
The Breakfast Club
The Hustler
Shawshank Redemption
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
Raiders Of The Lost Ark
Platoon
Toy Story
Indiana Jones & The Temple Of Doom
Silence Of The Lambs
Chinatown
Stand By Me
Rebel Without A Cause
Cool Hand Luke
Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid
The Wild Bunch
L.A. Confidential
Back To The Future
Bonnie & Clyde
Stand By Me
Heat
Network
The Big Lebowski
Groundhog Day
This Is Spinal Tap

Some more recent ones that maybe are too new to say but seem to fit in this category:
Batman Begins
Spider-man 2
Pirates Of The Carribean

Most are films that were succesful (or at least, made decent money) at the box office while being heavily praised by the critical community.

That said, there will be no film that is universally praised. For one, there's always someone who wants to be the dude who hates the movie everyone loves. Several people here take pleasure in being THAT dude. If we all love City of God, it's pretenious. If we love Batman Begins, it's boring. Etc.

>Goodfellas
>Casino
>Jaws
>Do The Right Thing
>The Exorcist
>Traffic
>Se7en
>Being John Malkovich
>Rocky
>The Breakfast Club
>The Hustler
>Shawshank Redemption
>One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
>Raiders Of The Lost Ark
>Platoon
>Toy Story
>Indiana Jones & The Temple Of Doom
>Silence Of The Lambs
>Chinatown
>Stand By Me
>Rebel Without A Cause
>Cool Hand Luke
>Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid
>The Wild Bunch
>L.A. Confidential
>Back To The Future
>Bonnie & Clyde
>Stand By Me
>Heat
>Network
>The Big Lebowski
>Groundhog Day
>This Is Spinal Tap

With the exception of Traffic, I think every movie you listed, that I've seen, is good, if not great. However, I think that I am, like a good number of the people on this board, somewhere between the snob and the anti-elitist, leaning slightly in one direction depending on the mood. But people like KF, colonelk, and S&S--and again, it's not so much antagonistic as it is as an plain observation--represent the "high art intellectual" side of movies more drastically. If memory serves me correctly, from their previous posts, all are not thrilled about the movies you've listed. So to get their quick reaction to the list would be the best way to measure the film's capability as a "happy medium." But since it may seem that they're not pleased with me labeling them as I have throughout here, that may not happen.


>Goodfellas
>Casino
>Jaws
>Do The Right Thing
>The Exorcist
>Traffic
>Se7en
>Being John Malkovich
>Rocky
>The Breakfast Club
>The Hustler
>Shawshank Redemption
>One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
>Raiders Of The Lost Ark
>Platoon
>Toy Story
>Indiana Jones & The Temple Of Doom
>Silence Of The Lambs
>Chinatown
>Stand By Me
>Rebel Without A Cause
>Cool Hand Luke
>Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid
>The Wild Bunch
>L.A. Confidential
>Back To The Future
>Bonnie & Clyde
>Stand By Me
>Heat
>Network
>The Big Lebowski
>Groundhog Day
>This Is Spinal Tap
>
>Some more recent ones that maybe are too new to say but seem
>to fit in this category:
>Batman Begins
>Spider-man 2
>Pirates Of The Carribean
>
>Most are films that were succesful (or at least, made decent
>money) at the box office while being heavily praised by the
>critical community.

you have three levels of critics:

1. Gene Shalit
2. Roger Ebert
3. David Walsh

and I think they may represent three broad types of filmgoers

>That said, there will be no film that is universally praised.
>For one, there's always someone who wants to be the dude who
>hates the movie everyone loves. Several people here take
>pleasure in being THAT dude. If we all love City of God, it's
>pretenious. If we love Batman Begins, it's boring. Etc.

of course

If the majority of both casual moviegoers and film geeks can enjoy them equally, for mostly the same reasons.

if you don't like that movie you're just a retard

Like what you like. You're the one watching these movies, for crying out loud! It's like Luis Guzman says to Don Cheadle in Boogie Nights:

"Wear what you dig!"











Watch what you dig, man. That's the way to live.

Yeah it's in black and white. So what? Doesn't matter.

Casablanca is incredible.