powerful movie.

I had no idea it was a film about racism in society.

It was done very well, though I feel at times the racism was a bit force-fed, but it got the point across.

discuss...

Sure, the speeches made it feel like Grand Canyon or some shit, but overall it was good. The racism was a little overt, and I thought some of those coincidences were damn near Magnolian, but the way they showed each characters' transformation was really good.

Grade: B

*************SPOILER ALERT!!!!******************

Probably my favorite part is when Sandra Bullock hugs the maid and tells her she's her best friend, after calling her "friend" of 10 years in a time of need and that bitch says she's getting a massage.

That shit hit very close to home.

I thought some of those coincidences were damn near
>Magnolian, but the way they showed each characters'
>transformation was really good.

some of the coincidences were too unrealistic, but in a movie like this, you just have to go along with it.

One of the problems i had was that it seemed like just about every character in the movie was racist... and if it supposed to be a microcosim (spelling?) of our society, then they are going a bit too overboard. but thats just a minor complaint of a very well executed movie.

Mech

Well what about the locksmith and the girl that worked in the morgue? Also, Larenz Tate didn't really show many racist tendencies. He was ignorant about the whole country music thing, but I don't think that could really be called racist. I didn't think Thandie or Terrance were racist, and Nona Gaye didn't say much at all...OK I didn't mean to write all these contradications to what you said, but when I started writing I kept remembering more. :)

>Well what about the locksmith and the girl that worked in the
>morgue? Also, Larenz Tate didn't really show many racist
>tendencies. He was ignorant about the whole country music
>thing, but I don't think that could really be called racist. I
>didn't think Thandie or Terrance were racist, and Nona Gaye
>didn't say much at all...OK I didn't mean to write all these
>contradications to what you said, but when I started writing I
>kept remembering more. :)

okay, but that still leaves just about everyone else in the huge cast as having a racist attitude.... which is fine, because i understand thats the theme of the movie.

my only problem is that it came across as if Haggis was saying that our society, as a whole, is like this... when in fact it is just certain individuals. i dunno, its a very touchy subject but I think at times the movie went a bit too far to prove its point.

With that said, i still loved the movie, lol.

>
>okay, but that still leaves just about everyone else in the
>huge cast as having a racist attitude.... which is fine,
>because i understand thats the theme of the movie.

Can you really say that the "good" White cop was racist? If he was really racist he wouldn't have picked Tate's character up hitchhiking or protected Howard's character. Plus, except for the very foul thing Cheadle said to his partner he wasn't that bad either.

>
>my only problem is that it came across as if Haggis was saying
>that our society, as a whole, is like this... when in fact it
>is just certain individuals. i dunno, its a very touchy
>subject but I think at times the movie went a bit too far to
>prove its point.

I really think that's more the perception of the person watching.

>
>With that said, i still loved the movie, lol.

I liked it. The coincidences were a little too over the top for me, but overall it was good.

Shaun G.

I think the point Haggis made was that even though people have good intentions, stereotypes can still prevail and bring out their greatest fear in an individual. No matter how hard he tried to "protect" black folks he still had an underlying fear of the opposite race that plagued him subconsciously.

it's making racism not so black-and-white, which is great. Because nowadays most people aren't "racist" in that KKK kind of way..but stereotypes and predjudice are everywhere, and its usually subconscious. i love the ambiguity of these characters. these aren't "bad" people. it takes the unrealistic aura of "evil" away from racism.

peace.

i really wanted to see more of that dude from Lost...i thought his role was gonna be bigger. woulda liked to see the asian representations get taken a bit further...

peace.

>
>>
>>okay, but that still leaves just about everyone else in the
>>huge cast as having a racist attitude.... which is fine,
>>because i understand thats the theme of the movie.
>
>Can you really say that the "good" White cop was racist?

His natural reaction was to shoot a nigga.

He makes the realization after he shoots him.

one
k. orr

>One of the problems i had was that it seemed like just about
>every character in the movie was racist... and if it supposed
>to be a microcosim (spelling?) of our society, then they are
>going a bit too overboard.

thought Cheadle and Jennifer Esposito's relationship was interesting and funny and wish we saw more of that. The locksmith's story hit me the hardest. thandie newton. I like.-Borat
the racism seemed a little over the top. I mean, we're all guilty of judging people on race sometimes whether we like it or not. but damn dude. These characters would bump elbows with someone of a different race and just go off on some ignorant shit.
I thought some of it was kinda forced. like Luda giving a little smile at the end when he drops those asians off in chinatown. And especially the grand sweeping music when any revelation took place in a character.
those are just small annoyances of mine, but word. powerful movie.

quick poll: how mixed was the crowd in your theater?
I've never been in a more diverse audience.

hear the music:

www.zebox.com/djw

dirt off your shoulders remix (jay-z) allure remix (jay-z) random sample attack 2 (djw) i'll be around remix (cee-lo) frontin' remix (pharell, jay-z) random sample attack (djw) shine on me remix (pete rock & cl smooth) flipside remix (Freeway, Peedi Crakk) whatever you say remix (little brother)

the audience was really diverse

I was sitting right next to a white couple and I could tell they felt bad for laughin @ some of stuff
Overall i really liked it and I'm glad they took it there

lol

and yes it was a very mixed crowd. i couldn't help but glance over at them a few times to check their reactions

I saw Undercover Brother in a mixed crowd too and that was a trip.

White, Persian, Black, Mexican and Japanese and we had no idea what the movie was about going in.

On the way home, I just missed a 10-car pile up on the freeway. Talk about ironic.

>quick poll: how mixed was the crowd in your theater?
> I've never been in a more diverse audience.


there were young folks, older folks, blacks, whites, and hispanics.

they are doing an excellent job cross promoting this movie. Pretty much anyone can relate to something in this film. And although some folks here are complaining about overkill on the racial issues, I look at it as simplicity for the masses. None of this stuff will go over your average joe's head and I think in this case thats a very good thing.

is better than being subtle.

Shaun G.

Nowadays silence is looked on as odd and most of my race has forgotten the beauty of meaning much by saying little."

-- From Toni Morrison's new book, "Love"

--------------------------
in the West, when you see a chick who is prostituting you start

i went w/an interracial couple though.

I'd say there was more diversity here than the other movies i've been to.. also lots of age, young people, old people, everyone seemed to be interested..

it was funny hearing only certain people laugh or huff at parts in the movie.

like depending on parts, they probably thought "is it okay if I laugh at this part?"

looking forward to it

will post up about it then

that when sandra bullocks character told off her husband it made my teeth chatter a little lol. She cussed him out like she had some sista in her. She was on that bs but knowing wealthy people who actually feel the way she does deep down inside that release of emotion looked really genuine.

This movie wasn't as complex as some of the independent movis we've become accustomed to seeing, but I think that makes it a great movie for the masses. I'm trying to think of how to recommend seeing this movie to my boss (she and her husband probably fall somewhere between sandra and brendan's characters) who I think needs to see this.

>I'm trying to think of how to
>recommend seeing this movie to my boss (she and her husband
>probably fall somewhere between sandra and brendan's
>characters) who I think needs to see this.

i think everyone should see this movie.

i have quite a few people i would love to send to this movie.

some powerful moments. the first half i thought was really tedious and silly..but when characters started to develop, it took on substance and became somewhat meaningful. the coincidences were just annoying though... the persian girl is the doctor at the hospital? i just started laughing...

it reminded me a lot of code unknown. seriously, it had the same feel almost. like this was the americanized version.

that different people laughed at different times?... and probably, that different people felt anger or sadness also at different times... i noticed it on a few occasions: sandra's speech at her house, the persian woman's comment about the anti-arab grafitti in her store, terrence tellin luda he was embarrassed, when that cop went to the hmo office and talked to the sister....

and just 4 that, i gotta give props to the flick 4 bein relevant to a cross section of ppl.... what made it apealing imo is that it was full of "real talk".... i definitely recommend it....

That was the most compelling thing about the film. The fact that it makes people think before they display emotion (because of what they are laughing/upset about at AND the company that they are laughing/upset in) was one of the most brilliant displays of writing I've seen. It's a conversational piece but with powerful acting.

I live in LA and the pulse of multi-culturalism combined with sterotypes is so prevalant you can taste it. I've felt and said those things about other races and I know it applied to the white, persian, asian, and latinos around me. Everything was on point from the Mexican maid to the Persian store owners who are repeatedly mistaken for Iraqi or Arab. I loved this movie because it made me realize my own shortcomings in race relations.

I saw it with a mixed crowd and I was genuinely surprised by the crowd reactions. The white folks were laughing at the 'Black' jokes, grimacing at the racist white cop and Sandra Bullock's lines and sounded really empathetic. Now what about their reactions were a true reflection of their feelings, I will never know. There were so many aspects in the film that could really be discussed, but overall I think that every person leaving that film left feeling either guilty or changed in their behavior.

Sidenote: My favorite part of the movie was when the little Hispanic girl, jumped in front of the gun for her Daddy to protect him from the bullets. I swear I almost died when I heard that gun go off! This was a good movie, but it felt like something was missing. I have no idea what it was, but it just felt incomplete to me. All in all, I highly recommend this movie!

...helped show how impactful racism really is, I felt. I just assumed that all these people lived in the same part of LA and that's why they kept running into each other.

the beginning really hit you over the head with its "i'm a movie about racism" gestures, and the end was overdone panning shots of landscape, character fadeouts, and singer/songwriter soundtrack. but the middle was very powerful - some of the scenes were downright brilliant, and for that i think it was a very good movie.

The middle was definetly the best presented.


************************************************

<<<<<<<<Don't Drool On The Avy>>>>>>>>

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"
-George Clinton

**************** OKP Free Agent****************

was the father giving the girl the invisible cloak. That was simply brilliant

The scene I loved most was the one where Terrence and Chris (Luda) Bridges were stopped at the stop sign and Terrence turns to him and says, "You embarrass me. You embarrass yourself. Get out of my car." GANGSTA STUFF!!!

was also great in a gut-wrenching, teeth-clenching way. what an asshole (at that point).

very touching scene down to the way he pulled her hair up to drape the cloak over her. The way he spoke to his child was brilliant. As if not to insult her intelligence as a child of today's society (one who doesn't believe in Santa or the Easter Bunny). Beautiful scene.

...

so real.

Okay, I just saw the movie and there were some strong moments when I felt "racism" was the focus but mostly the film was like L.A. Stories or Collateral or even Magnolia. This movie was about a bunch of different stories, some deal with race and others dealt with other issues, and there is a universal flow or connection between people.

The reason I think racism was so strong has to do with what Cheadle's character said at the very beginning about how people (in urban areas like L.A.) don't really touch or interact on a daily bases, so they crash into each other to force some kind of negative interaction. People of color deal with race in a far different way than white folks, Latino people deal with race differently from Black folks. They (we) all are just getting through life.

Maybe I am just too sensitive because I deal with racism on a daily basis...but I don't think so. This film was nothing more than a well told story about some fictitious folks' lives. It was interesting and I enjoyed it.

between my date & I about the roots of racism... and how different ppl handle it... like the scene when that cop wants 2 change partner... or the scene when the cop is frisking the sister....

Amores Perros the way the story unfolded.

But to me... it felt much more like 'SHORT CUTS.'

Good flick. Dug it. Few things struck me as odd:

- The Asian characters had no "positive" side to them.

- The Muslim daughter had no negative.

- The Hispanic locksmith had no negative either.

- The Sandra Bullock/Brendon Fraser characters were completely self centered and (besides being the vicitims of the jacking) also had no redeeming qualities.

Matt Dillon knocked that flick outta the park for me. We were joking that if '24' should ever try to pull a 'CSI' move and make multiple shows for different cities, they should give him a call.

Terrence Howard was amazing, but Don Cheadle raised the fuckin' bar in that movie. His work was incredible.

Good flick.

-- Nate

they definitely made the movie. i thought Phillipe did a good job too, actually becoming emotional during the scene with Howard and the cops (of course at the end too, he played a big part). i'm officially a Don Cheadle fan now, and i think if they ever want to make a Charles Mingus movie, Howard should get the call hands down.

Shit was amazing. Dude doesn't want fame. He likes what he does and wants to continue doing it. Just wild.... it's the SUMMER MOVIE PREVIEW issue. Check it out if you can find it.

-- Nate

>i'm officially a Don Cheadle fan now,

Now?!?!?

Damn homie......where the hell you been?

Cheadle been rippin' roles for a decade now.

this is the best film i've seen in a long time at the theatres and to think i was going to waste money on house of wax. some of the stuff was a little bit funny like jennifer esposito snapping on the asian woman and even matt dillon's crack about not being surprised after hearing the hmo's case worker's name is "sheniqua." even though you feel a little bad about it afterward. i agree with some of the folks here that some of the racism was over the top and i was kinda feeling luda a little bit before he started talking about the buses i was like uh uh he too off the chain. but it was also funny to hear that little hip-hop speech coming from him though. the movie was the best thing i have ever seen in a minute. and i caught a little of the trailer for hustle & flow i want to check that out too.

He should send a check to Micheal Mann...

why?

Very similiar to how Michael Mann visually portrays the city. See any overhead shots from Heat or Collateral for reference.


************************************************

<<<<<<<<Don't Drool On The Avy>>>>>>>>

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"
-George Clinton

**************** OKP Free Agent****************

Mann's Hi-Def blue-light look is much different to me.

showed many aspects of racism in society that people take for granted and don't consider racism.

"everybody gets hated on. a nigga on this board hated on me because I hated him for hatin!" -- Darryl Reeves

I loved the cinematogary. The pacing. Like 24 Grams I love stories that show how stories are interconnected. I loved the opening monologue with Don Cheadle. The scene with the little girl was brilliant!


My issues:


I felt some of the conflicts were sensationalized for the sake of being provactive. Like when Chealde was stroking jennfier Esposito and he answers the phone and tells his mother that he is fucking a white women. wtf! Who would tell their mother that.

There was no chemistry btw Cheadle and Esposito. I thought, why the fuck she wit this dude who is a complete ass hole and has not realized that she ain't Mexican but rather Puerto Rican/Peruvian.Again shock value.


I thought Luda and Tate where charactures. Luda being a philosphic thug gives a speech about why white folks are scare of Black men yet car jacks a white couple was on a buffoon side.

The rescue scene was heinous and trite. Why all of a sudden the man who sexually assualted her is the same man who recues her from the burning car? That scene was very sexual. With camera angles of Newton mounted Dillion. And Dillion responds:"Let me take off your belt. When he rescues her it is left with a shot of Newton being grateful -- mind you this was the same individual who sexually assualted her while her husband watched helplessly(Echoes of slavery) That was an insult since it trivialized both the Black male and females abuse in the prior encounter by legitimizing their teeming erotic crisis and now the racist becomes the hero. If they wanted to show another side of the racist the struggle he had with his ailing father would of been enough.

#

1. The frisk and dehumanizing of Thandie and Howard.
2. the nina being shot
3. Cheadle comment to Ria. Fucked up Actually it's a.
4. The locksmith moment with his daughter.**
5. Howard scolding Luda **(Howard was great)
6. Dillion nursing his pops.
7. The Thandie resuce scene. Don't get me started.

>I felt some of the conflicts were sensationalized for the sake
>of being provactive. Like when Chealde was stroking jennfier
>Esposito and he answers the phone and tells his mother that he
>is fucking a white women. wtf! Who would tell their mother
>that.

I might not use the word f---ing because I don't usually curse (period) but I might say "having sex with a white guy" and we might have a little laugh about it but that's because me and my mother have a certain understanding. In Cheadle's case it seems as if he and his mother were very distant and he was very angry at her. She seemed to only care about his brother...she was pestering him to find him like it was his sole responsibility, meanwhile she was drugged out at home. I didn't think they flushed out Cheadle's character enough but it was definately more 3-D than some of the others.

>There was no chemistry btw Cheadle and Esposito. I thought,
>why the fuck she wit this dude who is a complete ass hole and
>has not realized that she ain't Mexican but rather Puerto
>Rican/Peruvian.Again shock value.

I think it was obvious that Ria (Esposito) cared about Graham (Cheadle) and he seemed to be very insensitive...perhaps because of what he was dealing with (mother, brother). I recall that she was at the hospital with him and his mother. She was crying. There's was more to their relationship than fucking and race. They were partners.

>I thought Luda and Tate where charactures. Luda being a
>philosphic thug gives a speech about why white folks are scare
>of Black men yet car jacks a white couple was on a buffoon
>side.

Perhaps but in college I met some guys like that. For a while, me and my roommate were affliated with a bunch of young Black guys from Bed-Stuy who called themselves the "Brotherhood" and sometimes they would sip tea from cups with their pinkies up (no lie) but were known to mug white folks on the street...and sell drugs. It was more complex than just drinking from teacups. They had no role models and were pretty much out there on their own...so they often contradicted themselves. I did like the brief lecture Cameron (Howard) gave Anthony (Ludacris) before he kicked him to the curb. It shut up some of the noisy teens in the back.

I think Haggis entered some interesting territory but it was hard to flesh any one story out because there were so many. I think he hinted at some of the complexities but sometimes he missed the mark.

>The rescue scene was heinous and trite. Why all of a sudden
>the man who sexually assualted her is the same man who recues
>her from the burning car? That scene was very sexual.

I thought so, too. Perhaps Haggis was working out something personal. Hmmm...

>mind you this
>was the same individual who sexually assualted her while her
>husband watched helplessly(Echoes of slavery) That was an
>insult since it trivialized both the Black male and females
>abuse in the prior encounter by legitimizing their teeming
>erotic crisis and now the racist becomes the hero.

The first scene with Cameron and Christine (Newton) made me very upset, from the fellatio to the frisking down/feeling up. This was the only time I was upset during the movie.

Ria seemed more like a mistress to a man who was single. She did care for him but there was reason as to why they would click. Haggis revealed they were partners but it was completely titular.

>Ria seemed more like a mistress to a man who was single.

It was about two single people and Ria seemed more than willing to put up with Graham's issues. There's some reality in that.

In every film I can point to a kernal of reality the flaw here in there relationship was that the writer did n't express any intimate bonds -- no chemistry. What was redeemable about Cheadle that she would put up with his trash. It was very mismatch in my opinion.

I also had problems w/ the Newton/Dillon rescue scene. It left a bad taste...

The shit you said in conjunction with the massive coincedences and the huge leaps in logic makes this movie pretty bullshit to me.

I swear I wanted to put my foot thru the fuckin screen on certain parts of this movie. ....

Lorenz death was over the top and obsurd.

The whole time, I was thinking...Just say "I have that same little statue". Hell, if I was picking up a hitchhiker (which I probably wouldn't), I would be suspicious of him/her going in his pocket too.

n/m

The parts that affected me most was the scene(s) between the Persian man and the Locksmith...particularly when he shot the gun. It took everything in me not to boo-hoo.

And of course the scene where the cop saves Thandie's character's life. BUT, I can't believe her husband went through the whole day not knowing about that. Most people would've been blowing up his cell phone all day. From the looks of it, his phone was never off.

Mat Dillion is the white hero.


>The parts that affected me most was the scene(s) between the
>Persian man and the Locksmith...particularly when he shot the
>gun. It took everything in me not to boo-hoo.
>
>And of course the scene where the cop saves Thandie's
>character's life. BUT, I can't believe her husband went
>through the whole day not knowing about that. Most people
>would've been blowing up his cell phone all day. From the
>looks of it, his phone was never off.

i enjoyed it very much...

im still a little eh about the whole exchange between thandie newton and matt dillon (the frisking/dehumanization + ryan later saving christine from near death)..i see why it happened--i guess it just felt tacked on to me...

thandie newton wore it the fuck out..as did matt dillon, terence howard, and don cheadle. i also loved michael pena (the mexican locksmith) and shaun taoub (sp? the persian store owner) theyre storyline was the best one out of the bunch. and, don't even act like you weren't flipping out when the store owner shot th elittle girl..that was too much.

but it was a damn good movie..one worthy of ALL the praise its getting and i hope that its nominated come oscar time (im seeing dillon, howard and newton with best supporting nods)

Ryan

She did a great job as well.

thandie newton is my new fav actress
ludacris was REALLY GOOD!

She seemed to have zero redeeming value to her, even when she reached her little epiphany before/after the stair accident. I just didn't ever care, and I didn't ever like her.

this is just one of the movies that speaks to everyone IMO. The acting was tremendous (def. the best acting ensemble in a while), the cinematography was very good, and I loved Mark Isham's ambienty score.

As for the issues of course this movie does not give a real answer as to why people are racists, but it deals with the subject on an adult level. Some of you are saying the racism is over the top, and it is at times, but the main thing is to get it out there and examine the different layers of characters. Sure Matt Dillon's character shows a better side after that horrific frisking/assault scene, but dude is still a racist. Definitely a very good conversation starter.

I'm pessimistic as to this flick's chances at the Oscars, but I'd love for Howard, Pena or the cinematography to get nods.

i was gonna give it a solid @@@@.

woulda been a @@@@1/2 but some parts were magnoliaish (i just knew they were gonna break out into "wise up")

and then part of me got in my bamboozeled-spike is forcing this -shit down my throat mode---

and then i go through an experience like i did tonight and i realize that despite my nice bank account and my kings english and my art pedigree.....

im still a nigger.

i took my mother, sister and the sgt to see denzel in julius ceasar.

arriving too late---i got seated after act one. much to the dismay of three women in row 6 near the front stage center aisle far left side.

during intermission i made a red bull run to keep up with all the elizibeathan talk of this play (@@@@ btw---nice to see 4 cats from OZ go toe to toe with den the powerhouse)---unbeknownst to them...it never occured that an ogre like me could even have a fine ass girlfriend---or an addition party of two within earshot. (in other words mom and sis were sitting right behind these three) with the sgt (aka mrs. 15)---

i mean i laugh at it cause i have to numb myself to racial ignorance--and ESPECIALLY my life.

where either i am a freak.

or i'm on tv.

when you are a freak...they point and stare and laugh and outburst and say some really onoriginal stuff (oh how i long for that scene in roxanne when steve martin challenges the "hey big nose!" guy to a dozens duel)--so i ex em out. those who dont know the roots treat me like shit: im the last seat sat next to on the first class accela train, dont let me walk into a louis v store without someone catching feelings---high end restaurants turn me down---

which i'm straight with.....

but here is where it gets lame: let em find out you been on tv.

what was the deciding factor to the sixers organization when it came time for them to FINALLY grant me my floor seats (and meanwhile every celeb and they mom get pref treament)---

chapelle show.

those lames kiss my ass cause they think i am an actor on "chapelle show"----meanwhile i been a 5 year season ticket holder and they ALWAYS david spade me on some "and you are.....???" shit.

that's lame.

go to high end spot and host gives me the once over and states...."uh you cant wear those here"

points to ice creams.

i point to guy with black sneakers--"what about him"

some lame explanation starts and RIGHT before i politely walk out...

here comes the sou chef or dishwasher guy in the ear whisperin to them of who i am then all of a sudden it is all "OH IM SO SORRY I SHOULDA KNOWN---RIGHT THIS WAY PLEASE"

lame.

the lesson i learned these past 13 years is if they find out you on tv....then most mofos are fake. seriously---cant tell how many girls or peers of mine or club bouncer/owners or whomever.....treat me like the scum of the earth and then do a 180 once they know i am questlove.

so back to story:

i leave to get red bull and the 3 women (2 old white jewish women and a bourgie black friend of thiers) decide to slander me. (i wish we knew he was sitting here we'd woulda moved.....who the fuck told him that hairstyle was still in style..?)---all of em pretty much trashed the shit outta me and then ma dukes couldnt take it anymore.

im sure it got worse but i came in on tail end of the cuss out.


but it just goes to show you that all that luda was talking about in the beginning was still true.

they think you are the scum of the earth----

and then they find out you got some shine and then the tune changes.

"even with a phd...

you still a nigga"

-malcolm x

>but it just goes to show you that all that luda was talking
>about in the beginning was still true.
>
>they think you are the scum of the earth----
>
>and then they find out you got some shine and then the tune
>changes.
>
>"even with a phd...
>
>you still a nigga"
>
>-malcolm x

all 3 of them were PATHETIC...but the black woman just straight up embarrassed me.

mom and i handeled it as best we could....but cot damn the chola in me was waiting to sock it to 'um for real.

but u...siempre adelante.

this dude is the king of digressing.

explain

you went from a red bull run to some other shit then "back to the story."

that's what makes me unique no?

you get the whole scope of what my night was....

i've pretty much accepted that there is a regular way to post a message then there is questvision® where everything is cryptic or tangental, and i like that.

lol

that's his thing. it's to be expected.

>they think you are the scum of the earth----
>
>and then they find out you got some shine and then the tune
>changes.

They are also your fanbase. Hand that feeds you and what not.

as one of "them" (since i suspect "them" equals european breeds), i have to give my perspective:

often times i see and hear black people assume racial reasons for shit that really isn't racial (largely because of all the shit that IS racial that happens)...same can be said to some degree about the thought process of all kinds of people who have to put up with a lifetime of negative reactions to something about their exterior. mind you, i'm NOT comparing the DEGREE or LEVELS of other situations to that of being black in america, but being extremely short for a man (5'3") i often find myself thinking my shortness is playing a bigger factor in someone else's treatment or opinion of me than it really is...and being white, i often find non-white people totally misfiring on their mind-reading attempts of white people.

1. those people who were bashing you at the play were wrong no matter what they were making fun of, but it doesn't seem from what i read that they were automatically making fun of your blackness. was it cool that they were making fun of your hairdo? NO. they're being asses no matter how you slice it. but ask yourself: what kind of venue was this and was your style sticking out like a sore thumb or wasn't it?

2. high-end upscale places that turn you down: is your skin-tone and facial features the thing that's against their image, or is it your fro or cornrows (and, possibly, clothes...even though i don't know what you wear). are black people who get in getting in because they look white, or look groomed?

3. when people know you're questlove, is their sudden change of behavior related to the the simple fact that you're "a rich and famous guy" or the things they now know about you and admire? obviously, sometimes (especially with venues and restaurants) its the former...but when its individual people, it's probably the fact that people admire the things they know about questlove far more than that of a stranger who looks different from them.

4. if i saw you on the bus (and i know who you are by sight and happen to admire you in many ways no homo), i'd probably avoid sitting next to you too unless i felt extra-extraverted, because i'd be thinking i'm bothering you. just some food for thought. not saying these nice things are always the reasons, but its important to understand that "i'm black and deep down they don't respect me" isn't always the reason either.

I got a few issues with it:

1) When Don was like "I'm having sex with a white woman...That pisses her off" I thought, once I found out that the mom had bigger problems (drugs, a lost son) that the comment seemed out of place. That type of joke seemed like something that only someone without deeper problems would care about. And since she's doing so badly with life in general, even if it is a joke, it doesn't seem like the thing to say. I understand that that set up the whole argument between Jennifer Epasito and Don, but still.

2) The Iranian dude couldn't really speak English enough throughout the movie, and this fact was even the catalist for the insurance company not covering the break-in (as the Mexican dude told him to change the lock but he didn’t understand) and yet that whole monolouge about the little girl being his angel was pretty damn clear. It bothered me, but I guess that it a minor gripe.

3) LARENZ, DESPITE THE FACT THAT BLACK USUALLY DOESN’T CRACK, DOES NOT LOOK 20. Sorry to yell but I couldn’t get past that. Part of the reason for having so many stars in this movie, aside from the fact that you know the acting will probably be quality, is that some of the fans of the person will go because of that person. Everyone knows Larenz is NOT 20, so why even try it? What’s wrong with him being 25? Sure you lose a bit of the emotional punch, but still.

4) I have issues with the advertising department, as I saw the picture of Thandie and Matt in one of the ads for the movie. I have an issue because I knew that based on the picture (Thandie looking distraught while sorta being held by Matt) there would obviously be a scene in the movie like that, and I knew that Matt and Thandie weren’t a couple so I just watched for that scene. Since that scene was after that otherwise awesome car accident/fire scene, the intensity of the moment was lost as I knew she would survive.

Other than these issues, it is a fantastic film. Best scene to me was the scene between the Mexican guy and his daughter about the invisible cloak thing. It was SO cute and well executed.

as it is, its some cut.

THAT section, along with the entire
premise of MONSTER'S BALL, just shows
me how fucked up and warped racial
beliefs are, with regards to black
men and black women (from the viewpoint
of white men.)

in BOTH MOVIES, black men are depicted
as powerless and emasculated and
unable to do shit for their women or
protect them from fucked up, racist
white men.

which is wack enough.

but on top of that, both movies also
say that the very white dudes that
fucked these black men over and degrade
these black women can be redeemed
by black women, once the black dude
has been neutralized.

i'm not gone spoil the movie, but
really, the matt dillon/thandie newton/
terrence howard portion of the movie
was some of the most offensive
frustrating cinema i've ever watched.


take the whole EXAMINATION OF RACE context
out of this movie, and its different.

as it stands? that portion of this movie -
along with monster's ball - really solidified
my idea about how white folks see black men
and black women in america.

i had to fight back a colin ferguson
moment in the bathroom after it was
all over.
----------------------------------
new sig drops june 45th, yo

to the fullest although I did enjoy the film that part was very disturbing. The rescue was portrayed as romantic which trivilizes the abusive Newton and Howard faced.

i regarded that scene as thandie struggling to let a racist asshole like dillon's character help her in order for her to live.

the flip side to that was that dillon has to cope with the fact that a woman almost died because of his issues with black people and him physically assaulting her. that's the kind of shit that will stick with him for the rest of his life.

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in a sea full of white folks.

thanks for the food for thought.

peace.

>in BOTH MOVIES, black men are depicted
>as powerless and emasculated and
>unable to do shit for their women or
>protect them from fucked up, racist
>white men.

i didn't see monster ball, however, in crash, i saw this scene more as an attempt to depict white men's need to emasculate black men, particularly in front of their women, because of their inferiority complex. which makes the scene, at least in part, an admission of such. also, dillon was in a position of power/authority and howard feared the repercussions, hence the exchange. were dillon not a cop, that exchange would never have taken place.

>which is wack enough.
>
>but on top of that, both movies also
>say that the very white dudes that
>fucked these black men over and degrade
>these black women can be redeemed
>by black women, once the black dude
>has been neutralized.

once again, i saw this more as an attempt to show that dillon's aggression/actions were based more on jealousy/inferior feelings than what you allude to. in the presence of howard, dillon acted a certain way. alternatively, when he was alone with newton, he was a different person. of course, when dillon was running up to the car, he had no idea who was in it. so part of that scene, imo, was simply meant to depict dillon as someone who, despite his obvious flaws, was at least in some ways a decent human being/cop who had unfortunately let some life/job experiences cause him to become jaded.

I agree that Dillion's debasement of Howard/Newton is based on an inferority complex , that was n't bad given it illustrated a fact which was and is apart of the legacy of the U.S. What was horrendous was indeed the rescue scene. Ture, Dillion did n't know who was in the car but it was tawdry that the same guy who brutalized her is now the rescuer -- come on cry me a river! It was n't a straight forward rescue scene --They made the scene romantic and very sexual the couple were sharing an erotic intimate intense moment. That was totally insulting in other words Black women, they enjoy being raped if not physically then mentally. As for being jaded it does n't take harsh experiences for a person like Dillion to become "jaded(as in racist) It's embellmatic of whites whether rick, middle class or poor to feel entitled to privledge.



>>in BOTH MOVIES, black men are depicted
>>as powerless and emasculated and
>>unable to do shit for their women or
>>protect them from fucked up, racist
>>white men.
>
>i didn't see monster ball, however, in crash, i saw this scene
>more as an attempt to depict white men's need to emasculate
>black men, particularly in front of their women, because of
>their inferiority complex. which makes the scene, at least in
>part, an admission of such. also, dillon was in a position of
>power/authority and howard feared the repercussions, hence the
>exchange. were dillon not a cop, that exchange would never
>have taken place.
>
>>which is wack enough.
>>
>>but on top of that, both movies also
>>say that the very white dudes that
>>fucked these black men over and degrade
>>these black women can be redeemed
>>by black women, once the black dude
>>has been neutralized.
>
>once again, i saw this more as an attempt to show that
>dillon's aggression/actions were based more on
>jealousy/inferior feelings than what you allude to. in the
>presence of howard, dillon acted a certain way. alternatively,
>when he was alone with newton, he was a different person. of
>course, when dillon was running up to the car, he had no idea
>who was in it. so part of that scene, imo, was simply meant to
>depict dillon as someone who, despite his obvious flaws, was
>at least in some ways a decent human being/cop who had
>unfortunately let some life/job experiences cause him to
>become jaded.

if anybody had one, it was HOWARD, who
spent almost the whole movie getting
clowned by various white dudes and
his own woman.

dude

>>o depict dillon as someone who, despite his obvious flaws, was at least in some ways a decent human being/cop<<<

'cop who fingerfucks helpless victim in front of her husbang'
and 'decent' don't go together in my world, dawg.

----------------------------------
new sig drops june 45th, yo

>'cop who fingerfucks helpless victim in front of her husbang'
>and 'decent' don't go together in my world, dawg.

That's the whole point of the movie tho. It eliminates the clear cut "black and white" of racism.

peace.

it didn't just REPORT how complex racial
perceptions are. it made a JUDGEMENT about
things.

and by giving matt dillon redemption
at the end, it said that even the
white cat who commits the worst
racial act in the movie can still
be redeemed. (without much
punishment by the way.) and
through the same black woman
he degraded in the first place.

constrasting that with the
treatment of the black dude
- at the same black woman's
hands - and i saw a really foul,
twisted idea of the relationship
between black men, black women
and white men.

again, i have no problem even
with matt dillon getting
some redemption. but to allow
it with the same woman, and
then juxtaposed against terrence
howard's treatment?

out of everybody involved, the
movie goes out of its way to
let matt dillon off the
racial justice hook.

its hard not to see that, and
then look around in the real world
and not think the movie reflects
a larger truth about racial
relations in america. BEYOND
things not being 'black and
white', too.

moreso, that white cats have a
'get out of jail free card'
when it comes to race.
----------------------------------
new sig drops june 45th, yo

for me he wasn't "redeemed" though. for me all (or near all) the characters did some good shit, did some bad shit. i hear you (or whoever said it) about the scene being a bit too erotic. that bothered me too. but i didn't think in any way it redeemed his character.

that's all, just my opinion.

peace.

----------------------------------
new sig drops june 45th, yo

Torez,

It was pretty blatant to me. The music they played. Also, dillion said, let me remove your belt.


same black woman
>he degraded in the first place.
>
>constrasting that with the
>treatment of the black dude
>- at the same black woman's
>hands - and i saw a really foul,
>twisted idea of the relationship
>between black men, black women
>and white men.
>
>again, i have no problem even
>with matt dillon getting
>some redemption. but to allow
>it with the same woman, and
>then juxtaposed against terrence
>howard's treatment?
>
>out of everybody involved, the
>movie goes out of its way to
>let matt dillon off the
>racial justice hook.
>
>its hard not to see that, and
>then look around in the real world
>and not think the movie reflects
>a larger truth about racial
>relations in america. BEYOND
>things not being 'black and
>white', too.
>
>moreso, that white cats have a
>'get out of jail free card'
>when it comes to race.
>----------------------------------
>new sig drops june 45th, yo

with the belt thing. he was just letting her know what he was doing when he was reaching over to her because she was reluctant to let him help and was petrified by his presence. he also pulled DOWN her skirt...in part to show what his intentions were, and in part to show that what he did to her in the first scene was wrong/not about her in he first place.

>if anybody had one, it was HOWARD, who
>spent almost the whole movie getting
>clowned by various white dudes and
>his own woman.

well. i only recall one scene where you could say that howard was clowned (although i don't agree). that being the one scene where they showed him at work. the kid didn't say his line *black enough* so here you had this white guy telling a black guy to tell a black guy how to sound black. i thought they were making two points here. 1 of course being the paradox between white folks racism/prejudice/fear/loathing of our ways, music, slang, blah blah blah vs. their actual fascination with the same and insistence that we are black enough (everything they purport to despise) on film/radio/tv/at work/everywhere...the whole hollywood shuffle thing replayed. the other point i thought they were making both in this scene and with howard's character in general, is the awkward position black men must often assume to be successful in america - both amongst their peers and amongst *others* for example, howard was FORCED into an emasculating situation by dillon...he was also clearly uncomfortable in the work scenario as well...however, he was somebody who was paying the same price MOST black men pay and walking the same tenuous line black men must walk when/if they wish to be "successful" in america, as unsettling as it may have been for him. either way, the notion they explored was that howard, in large part because of his success, was considered *not black enough* by his peers...as opposed to someone like luda who WAS black enough by virtue of our own fucked up standards of what makes someone black or black enough. newton was wrong for what she said/how she reacted to howard. he had already quite unwillingly been emasculated. although he wasn't physically assaulted, he was clearly as humiliated - what choice did you see him having in those situations? for her, of all people to imply what she did was the biggest insult of all...of course i understand she was traumatized...but still.

>>>o depict dillon as someone who, despite his obvious flaws,
>was at least in some ways a decent human being/cop<<<
>
>'cop who fingerfucks helpless victim in front of her husbang'
>and 'decent' don't go together in my world, dawg.

i see your point here. but at the same time, i go back to my original post. dillon did what he did because howard was there, in part because HE felt disenfranchised (as expressed in his meeting with shaniqua...also felt his dad had been disenfranchised by black folk)...this was clearly established in the movie. the inferiority part, i admit is in part assumed, but is established in part by the implications in the movie itself. i agree that decent people don't normally engage in such behavior, but i think much if not most of the movie was exaggerated to make a point. i don't necessarily think you were supposed to believe that he redeemed himself by saving newton, i think you were just supposed to understand that in his own mind, the things he did were justified (i.e. conversation with his partner..."wait til you've been on the job...") and understand that someone can be vulgar and wretched one moment and not necessarily the next. and i'm not clear where folks got the erotic/love scene feel/notion from the car rescue either???

>>although he wasn't physically assaulted, he was clearly as humiliated - what choice did you see him having in those situations?<<<

he could have fought the cop, gotten shot, gotten jailed, or taken it.

he chose to take it. which i understand, as every black man
in america would.

my issue is not with terrence howard's choices, especially
not with regard to the assault scene. moreso, its the
film's willingness to go out of its way to redeem the guy
who forced howard into those choice. many other parts
of the movie seemed to flow as natural consequences of
the story. the MATT DILLON RESCUE - with all of its
sexual tension, etc. - contorted the storyline to
ridiculous lengths to give this guy an OUT.

its a trend i see in every recent film about
race and white folks. its disgutsting to me.

>>>dillon did what he did because howard was there, in part because HE felt disenfranchised (as expressed in his meeting with shaniqua...also felt his dad had been disenfranchised by black folk)...this was clearly established in the movie.<<<

his ANGER was established. inferiority complex? i don't see it.

>>> i think you were just supposed to understand that in his own mind, the things he did were justified (i.e. conversation with his partner..."wait til you've been on the job...") and understand that someone can be vulgar and wretched one moment and not necessarily the next.<<<

this would work if dillon were not juxtaposed against
howard character. i cannot take anymore 'LONG SUFFERING,
DIGNIFIED BLACK MEN WHO JUST TAKE IT' stories...especially
when they share narratives with crackas who fuck them
and their woman over.

that's bad enough. throw in the ridiculous, contrived way
he is allowed to rescue thandie newton (the same chick
terrence howard couldn't do ANYTHING FOR) and its really
obvious to me what the movie is saying on that score:

white dudes are the heros saviors and black dudes are
the incompentent, weak fuck ups.they cannot even
take care of their women, and at the core, the
women don't respect them for it (which is where
thandie newton's foul statements came from that
night after the incident.)

ultimately, this movie would have been more
palatable if the characters were more fleshed
out, and more insight were given into them.
hollywood is the worst place to try to deal
with something as complex and twisted as race.
they always give it a really shallow, narrow
treatment, which leaves me angry and offended.

i'm not watching any of these hollywood race
movies any more.
and i'm not clear where folks got the erotic/love scene feel/notion from the car rescue either???
----------------------------------
new sig drops june 45th, yo

America has a very fucked up idea of black men and women and how we relate to each other. Too many movies have redeemed racist ass white dudes thru black women's bodies.

I think the point of that whole rescue scene was

1. To shock the viewer out of their preconceived notions of Matt Dillon's character. He was a bigot, but at the same time he was capable of putting his life onthe line to save another person's. That's a little more complexity than we usually get from our movies, and even in real life something like that is tough to compute. This scene made it difficult to box Dillion in as a 'good' guy or 'bad' guy

2. To show us that no matter what, Dillon could NOT be redeemed for his bigotry. The key to this scene is to watch the woman's reaction *after* the rescue. As she is being escorted away from the scene of the accident, she looks back at Dillon with just as much contempt as she ever had for him. At the same time she's probably greatful to be alive, but you can see on her face that his sins of the past have not and will not be stricken for the record.

So no, I don't think it was a redemption scene, and no I don't think it should have been removed.

...when Jennifer Esposito and the Asian lady got into the car crash, there is NO WAY in the world you could tell Jennifer was of Latin descent just by looking at her. She looks Italian more than anything.

I was also ugged by the Persian guy suddenly speaking perfect English at the end.

It was a good movie though. The scene with the father and daughter was really really touching.
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>...when Jennifer Esposito and the Asian lady got into the car
>crash, there is NO WAY in the world you could tell Jennifer
>was of Latin descent just by looking at her. She looks
>Italian more than anything.

I agree.

>I was also ugged by the Persian guy suddenly speaking perfect
>English at the end.

Per my above post, I TOTALLY agree. That whole "she's my angel" monolouge was so weird to me because his English was incredibly on point.

The only reason it REALLY bothered me was because his lack of English understanding was the catalyst for the whole break-in, and that's a big thing.If ever you are going to understand some English, it will be in regards to getting your door fixed so you don't, in the future, get robbed.


>It was a good movie though. The scene with the father and
>daughter was really really touching.
Yes, it was SO adorable. I love the fact that he was like "I mean...unless you think it's stupid" and "She had, like, pasted on wings, I was like 'Yea right, you aren't a fairy'"

*sigh*

Dude was so fine.

i am a fan now. i love dads. damn sexy.

>...when Jennifer Esposito and the Asian lady got into the car
>crash, there is NO WAY in the world you could tell Jennifer
>was of Latin descent just by looking at her. She looks
>Italian more than anything.

there is NO WAY that she would get called Italian in L.A.

First, as a white man let me say: NONE of my white friends are like this. Were some at some point? Yes. As Chick D said "If you can't change the people around you, change the people around you."

I though the racists talk BETWEEN races was way way way over the top.

Do I think a black-man gets a funny look in a white neighborhood? YES.

But there was cross racial talk in ways that make the characters either 1)unstable or 2)unrealistic.

A few examples:

The spic and the chink beefing after the initial car crash (ok, that was just typed to show you how ridiculous it sounds.)

Jennifer Espo vs. the Asian lady. Asian lady says as the first thing "You mexicans can drive bad. . You put on blake too fast. "Then Espo says "Blakes, blakes? Get a high-chair you Asian bitch."

Maybe in a car crash, MAYBE, MAYBE and unstable person STARTS OUT like that. I'm not denying many people may THINK that way, but very few would TALK that way without a prolonger argument unless they were unstable to start with.

Espo is a pig so maybe I can buy it, maybe.

But Matt Dillion talking all that reverse-racism stuff to the woman who can grant his father better medical care?? No Way.

Sandra Bullock being afraid of Luda and Lorenz? I totally buy it, and it doesn't help that Luda and Lorenz ARE jacking people.

The gun guy blowing a sell by calling the dad "Ossama."? No, he' keep that under his breath or told to the security officer until the people left.

The Persian guy shooting the girl? That dude was just insane, not much racism there.

I found I didn't LIKE any of these characters. First they beef about being treated bad, then they treat a person of a different race like shit.

I was honestly hoping a lot of people would die.

Who and why I didn't like them:
Espo: Didn't like her reaction to the first car crash.

Asian Lady: Was just batshit insane. And her Husband was a smuggler.

Fraser: Kinda liked him

Bullock: Liked her because she knew she was acting badly towards others and was conflicted.

Luda was an idiot.

Lorenz was an idiot.

Cowboy from Dead presidents" went a little too insane but in all fairness had to work with Tony Danza. I understand it.

Thandie Newton (whom Paul Barman would crush like a Candy Crouton.): Bitch needed to shut her fucking mouth when the cops gaffled them. Then she emasculates her husband.

Cheadle: Stupid about his brother. I mean he sells out the white cop to save his brother from a case? But his brother will watch a case 10 minutes later. He needed to get his brother locked up.

Dillion: Asshole cop but blew it for his dad with the Affirmative Action shit.

Ryan Philippe: Heard he treats Reese bad, or at lest US weekly thinks so. He was cool and to be fair he did shoot a guy who had jacked three cars in the movie who was acting shiesty.

Tony Danza: Hate him for not playing a character named Tony.

Keith David: I wish he would have said "I'm getting to old for this shit."

Loretta Devine: As Shaniqua was cool until the last car accident then it's automatically some slurs from her.


Also, i did feel like a forced Magnolia. Replace snow with frogs and add Wiseup instead of the song they played

I think the film was too obvious with the racism and if it'd been subtler it would have affected *me* more.


Look, I'm a white man and I don't experince a lot of this stuff. And I happen not to be racist. But I think unless you are in Klan country people don't openly speak like this in this country.

-Tom

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So sad it's funny.

Explain yourself.

If it's that as a white man I found the white more sympathetic then say it.
I think it's the way THIS FILM was written.

This film tries to tackle delicate subject with a club and bash it for 2 hours.

*I* never had a visceral feeling during this film.

A better film around some of these issues: Do The Right Thing. When Mookie threw the trash-can the theater I was in went so still and quiet I could FEEL it.

This film just had a bunch of "Oh snap, no HE DIDN'T" moments, but all the characters were flawed in ways that seemed cartoonish. and unsympathetic. Tell me you LIKED any of these guys except Daniel.

Daniel was the only character in Crash I liked. And maybe Sandra bullock's Jean may have been on the road to redemption. And Luda, while an idiot, wasn't a monster. He didn't shoot Cameron and he didn't sell the Thai's into slavery.

But only Daniel I liked.

In DTRT when Pino and Mookie were talking it seemed a LOT more honest. when Radio Raheem was beefing with the Koreans it got heated to a point where I could feel both sides, plus it was funny. And the Here's What They Think about you was perfect. It said what people were feeling and gave them a context where they could say it.

DTRT was almost ENTIRELY of unlikable but NOT unsympathetic characters.

Mookie did the WRONG thing. Sal was deeply flawed but not a real bigot. Pino and Vito showed two ways people could go in the same situations. Bugging Out beefed way too much for no good reasons. Maybe Vito was likable.

But I'll remember DTRT long after Crash is forgotten.

I think THIS FILM was not very good. That doesn't mean the issues it tried to raise are trvial, this film jsut didn't raise them in a way that will stay with *me*.

i liked all of the characters. i also hated them all.

in that, i think it did its job.

peace.

>Asian Lady: Was just batshit insane. And her Husband was a
>smuggler.

Guy, it's not like he's smuggling weapons or drugs or shit. He's getting PEOPLE into America. HE wasn't the slave trader, the auto shop dude was.

Anyways...you have beef with these character's faults when the whole point of the movie was that they have these faults.

Also, of COURSE most of the stuff these people say would in real life be said only in their heads or under their breaths. The point of the movie is that it airs that shit and and says it OUT LOUD.

I'm cool if you didn't like it, but I think you're missing the point of why it was the way it was.

peace.

the racism was over the top. we KNOW this. But this film was not for us, me being another white man, to examine how we act... its for those who DO have racist attitudes to reflect on their beliefs.

Look there are two type of over the top, which I'll explain using comedians to illustrate:

1)Sam Kinison
2)Gallagher

I'd rather have seen a Kinison performnce instead of this Gallger one.

I buy the racist cop a lot, but not so much everyone else.

>Bullock: Liked her because she knew she was acting badly towards others and was conflicted.

uhoh

(I posted this in Activist)

A lot of cats I talk to bring up the point that the film offers no solution to the problems it presents.

I don't necessarily agree with this. I felt a solution was definitely, strongly, implied. It is not directly *shown*, because to have a character embody or vocalize this solution it would make the film favour that character's race over the others. That would be counter-productive. In order for the solution to be proposed, it actually *can't* be shown, at least not totally.

First, I think a lot of what the film does is take other "solutions" and break down why they are problematic. Take Ryan Phillipe, for example. He represents the solution of "colour blindness". His character is very noble in this, but his card gets pulled by his black boss, who points out that he switches being partners with Matt Dillon more to not be associated with Matt Dillon than to actually solve the problem (i.e., Phillipe is in the clear, but Dillon is still on the streets). This to me in the main problem with being "colour blind". It washes your hand of the problem while allowing the problem to still exist. You deign yourself "above" all that.

This is furthered in the car scene with Larenz Tate, where people who claim to be "colour-blind" usually aren't all they are cracked up to be. Not that his character was racist, it's more complicated than that, but of course he is not colour blind, because, as the film shows, it is impossible to be so.

There is the path of no-resistance, the letting shit slide solution. Such as the Latino character and Terrence Howard. We all see how that plays out. The only reason the Latino guy's daughter doesn't get capped is so the Persian dude can have closure on his story. But still...the film shows how difficult that road can be, and how it also really doesn't solve anything.

I think by having all the characters have good/bad sides, by presenting this problem it also suggests a solution. Often our solution to racism is to take up the Ludacris stance (althought perhaps not so cartoonishly), the "Angry" whatever whatever. For me, it's the Angry Asian Man, wherein I complain about asian representation in movies, i bemoan all my asian girl friends dating white guys, I get mad when white people call me oriental etc.

This makes me feel all righteous and no doubt we all feel the same way when we tirade on whitey or the system.

But, as the film shows none of us clean. And if we're big enough people to admit the film is right about that...then it wipes the slate clean for us.

OK...where to go now?

I hate to get all Dalai Lama-ish but the only solution now is compassion. Not to downgrade or dismiss our complaints and political stances, because those are all still valid...but eventually we have to rise above drawing lines between us. We have to live compassionately. I don't mean compassion as some cheesy We Are The World type bullshit. This isn't the same as being "colour blind". Compassion is to see race and to recognize race and racism and *still* love these people. To be compassionate to others by recognizing our own faults.

I think we can all agree...the one cat who came closest to "having it right" was the Latino guy. He resisted all attempts to become jaded or angry.

The compassion I'm talking about is not about rolling over. It's not about holding things in. It's about fighting, fighting every day, but fighting compassionately.

I dunno about yall, but this movie really got to me, and I think it will change a lot about me regarding issues of racism, and how I deal with it, and in turn, how I deal with myself.

Ok, now I sound like I am on some bullshit, so I will stop.

I love you all.

peace.

this is why i liked this flick: it makes people think, discuss and react.
I just saw Kingdom of Heaven today, which I thought was supposed to present a nuanced view of the war of religions. BS! it's just another dumb pop-corn flick, where for once the arab guys aren't the biggest a-holes. guess I shouldn't trust Ridley Scott after what he did with Black Hawk Down.

>this is why i liked this flick: it makes people think,
>discuss and react.

for sure. i'm lovin the discussions even more than i loved the movie.

>I just saw Kingdom of Heaven today, which I thought was
>supposed to present a nuanced view of the war of religions.
>BS! it's just another dumb pop-corn flick, where for once the
>arab guys aren't the biggest a-holes. guess I shouldn't trust
>Ridley Scott after what he did with Black Hawk Down.

damn. that's sad to hear. what a waste of a great opportunity.

peace.

I LOVED how every character had 2 (or more) sides to themselves.. There was no "hero", there was no "good guy".. and with that there was no antagonist or "bad guy".. You had yourself initially hating characters then coping with them, then sympathizing with them.. You had characters you initially liked, then emotions changed throughout the movie..

This was my favorite part of the movie.. People are complex, and it's way more complicated than black and white, there are many shades of grey.

>First, I think a lot of what the film does is take other
>"solutions" and break down why they are problematic. Take Ryan
>Phillipe, for example. He represents the solution of "colour
>blindness". His character is very noble in this, but his card
>gets pulled by his black boss, who points out that he switches
>being partners with Matt Dillon more to not be associated with
>Matt Dillon than to actually solve the problem (i.e., Phillipe
>is in the clear, but Dillon is still on the streets). This to
>me in the main problem with being "colour blind". It washes
>your hand of the problem while allowing the problem to still
>exist. You deign yourself "above" all that.

BINGO! You nailed it!

Comments/questions

- Was Nona Gaye having an affair with Brendon Fraiser?

- The bullets being blanks

- When Bullock fell down the stairs the audience felt bad for her until one guy burst out laughing and everyone started laughing too.

- The Bee Gee's cop shooting the Black dude: what was that about?

- They tried to tie up all the loose ends but left some things untouched. The Mexican dude didn't call the cops on the Persian guy? When Cheadle finds his brother's little statue I thought that would lead to Phillippe getting caught or something (a stretch, but many things in the film were a stretch).

>- When Bullock fell down the stairs the audience felt bad for
>her until one guy burst out laughing and everyone started
>laughing too.

yeah same shit happend when i saw it.

my all - time favorite Sandra Bullock movie...

I was just waiting for shit like that to happen during Miss Congeniality, and I finally got my payoff.

> When Cheadle finds his brother's little statue I
>thought that would lead to Phillippe getting caught or
>something (a stretch, but many things in the film were a
>stretch).

What I thought was going to happen.. since Cheadle's Brother also had a gun (in the hijacking scene prior he had a gun.. and he was hitchiking ever since the incidence), I thought Phillipe's character would just check out the body, realize he had a gun, and claim self-defense.

>What I thought was going to happen.. since Cheadle's Brother
>also had a gun (in the hijacking scene prior he had a gun..
>and he was hitchiking ever since the incidence), I thought
>Phillipe's character would just check out the body, realize he
>had a gun, and claim self-defense.

Wow, that so could have worked.

lorenz lost it in the tussle with terrence, then luda picked it up and tried to jack the truck when terrence jumped in and when luda pointed the gun at him terrence took it.





peace.
~~~~~~~~~

my hard head makes me learn shit the hard way - t.i.

thump a nigga on his knuckles make him say ouch - lil fate

i fantasize about fucking women that i don't like and cumming real fast and on their favorite blouse and putting on my new

>lorenz lost it in the tussle with terrence, then luda picked
>it up and tried to jack the truck when terrence jumped in and
>when luda pointed the gun at him terrence took it.

I thought that was Luda's gun that Luda lost initially, then the other car thief HAS his gun, cuz Luda's saying "shoot him shoot him!", but he didn't.. and then proceeded to run when he heard the cop cars?? I may be wrong though, I don't remember exactly, so you are prolly right, my bad.

>Comments/questions
>
>- Was Nona Gaye having an affair with Brendon Fraiser?

I SO wondered the exact same thing. They seemed to spend alot of time together, though I think she was his assitant so maybe that's not so odd.

>- The bullets being blanks

Yeah, that was interesting cause the daughter (also the nurse that holds Larenz's mom as she cries) was all "just give me whatever!" and didn't even want to check.

>- When Bullock fell down the stairs the audience felt bad for
>her until one guy burst out laughing and everyone started
>laughing too.

LOL! That didn't happen at my theatre but sounds hilarious.

>- The Bee Gee's cop shooting the Black dude: what was that
>about?

I missed the idea that it was racism that made Ryan (a man that was obviously opposed to that, being as he wanted to be transfered away from Matt Dillion...then again I remember Matt saying "wait till you are on the job a while" and even though it was only a day later, maybe that was what he was talking about) shoot Larenz, as he assumed it was something bad in his hand cause he was Black...Then again, it is a hitchhiker, he IS reaching in his pocket, it is a tough call.

>- They tried to tie up all the loose ends but left some things
>untouched.

The Mexican dude didn't call the cops on the
>Persian guy?

I can see his being so happy his daughter was alive (and confused by it) that he forgot about calling the police, at least momentarily.

When Cheadle finds his brother's little statue I
>>thought that would lead to Phillippe getting caught or
>something (a stretch, but many things in the film were a
>stretch).

Yeah, I thought that too. The scene finding the statue was almost not needed if they weren't going to go deeper (maybe they do on a director's cut), as it had already been established by seeing the Puma and even the brother's body that it was he that was dead, so the statue thing being thrown in there for extra emphasis was, at once, interesting and odd.

>>Comments/questions
>>
>>- Was Nona Gaye having an affair with Brendon Fraiser?
>
>I SO wondered the exact same thing. They seemed to spend alot
>of time together, though I think she was his assitant so maybe
>that's not so odd.

i wondered the same.
>
>>- The bullets being blanks
>
>Yeah, that was interesting cause the daughter (also the nurse
>that holds Larenz's mom as she cries) was all "just give me
>whatever!" and didn't even want to check.

she specifically asked for the red box. she knew they were blanks.
>
>>- When Bullock fell down the stairs the audience felt bad
>for
>>her until one guy burst out laughing and everyone started
>>laughing too.

i was rollin. character was fucked up. but it was cool that she realized the the person she treated like shit was the person that was there for her instead of her fucked up friend.
>
>LOL! That didn't happen at my theatre but sounds hilarious.
>
>>- The Bee Gee's cop shooting the Black dude: what was that
>>about?
>
>I missed the idea that it was racism that made Ryan (a man
>that was obviously opposed to that, being as he wanted to be
>transfered away from Matt Dillion...then again I remember Matt
>saying "wait till you are on the job a while" and even though
>it was only a day later, maybe that was what he was talking
>about) shoot Larenz, as he assumed it was something bad in his
>hand cause he was Black...Then again, it is a hitchhiker, he
>IS reaching in his pocket, it is a tough call.
>

i think it was a combination of a few things. ryan didn't want to assume the worst about larenz. but not only did he pick up a hitch hiker, he had a crazy day on the job and probably left work with a fucked up attitude (you can't just turn the job off once you are off-duty), and possibly did get scared because larenz was black. that doesn't make him racist, it makes him someone that had to make a split second decision that ended up being the wrong one. not that he deserved to die, but there was no reason that larenz could not have told him..."hey, i got the same statue in my pocket".


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>- The bullets being blanks

The daughter was probably anti-gun and just going along with it.

>
>>- The bullets being blanks
>
>The daughter was probably anti-gun and just going along with
>it.

nah, she said "just give me the red box", and the dude asked her if she was sure, like "do you know what these are?". To me it seems she took these on purpose

she did.

which is why she bought the blanks.

when she puts the gun away after the conversation with her dad. it says 'blanks' and you can see her kind of smirking.

yeah, but that's after he's "shot" the little girl. So by then you've pretty much figured out these weren't real bullets

there just seems to be uncertainty in here as to whether she knew she was buying blanks at the time. that smirk should have erased any doubt.

Some scenes didn't really warrant that dramatic type music in the background, I liked the song they used toward the conclusion/outro, but everytime a dramatic scene came I kept thinking "if they used this song it woulda been more effective".. some were good/okay though.

(especially the singer-songwriter B.S. at the end).
The mood music clobbered me over the head. In fact that snow @ the
end was trite as well. My heart strings were not tugged at all.

i found it weird.

there WAS some song that played through a montage at the end that i liked.

it has it's share of admirable qualities, and I really wanted to like this movie, but too many nonsensical coincidences ruined it for me. its use of overly dramatic music, and its every-30-second reminder that "this is a movie about race" wore on me after a while as well.

I was willing to give it a pass for the first unlikely coincidence, with the car accident, but after that they just became more frequent, and more ridiculous.

I didn't believe for a second that Terrence Howard's character would do (or even be able to do) what he did. yes, reasons were established that indicated him being pushed towards a breaking point, but I didn't buy the scene at all.

The scene where Larenz and Luda run over the Chinese guy seemed to be in the wrong movie.

I liked the way *some* of the racial situations were handled. for example Philipe's character is established as a level-headed, non-prejudice man of integrity. but when it came down to it, he saw a black man reach in his pocket and panicked. the scene was good (even though it's there to counter the Dillon rescue scene), but for me it was tarnished because I just couldn't get past the improbability of their meeting in the first place. I didn't even believe Philipe's character would've picked up a hitchhiker to begin with.

The only scene I absolutely loved, was the first one between the locksmith and his daughter. I really would've liked to have seen more of his character.

and Matt Dillon's performance was fantastic

but overall I was disappointed.

is the tagline.

MTV much?

at first, i wondered why don would have spoken that way to his mother, but i'm guessing she was probably incoherent to begin with. his attitude toward the whole thing made more sense to me because it seemed a little more clear that he would not really let her in because of his family situation and just didn't like talking about it.

i don't see why some were offended by this scene with thandie and howard and matt dillon. it was supposed to rub you the wrong way to show that a lot of brothas go through this. that is a fucked up decision either way.

thandie/matt dillon - i regarded that scene as thandie struggling to let a racist asshole like dillon's character help her in order for her to live.

the flip side to that was that dillon has to cope with the fact that a woman almost died because of his issues with black people and him physically assaulting her. that's the kind of shit that will stick with him for the rest of his life. i don't think the scene was trying to redeem him at all.

the persian guy i think it was more of a miscommunication based on stereotypes. he was cheap and thought the mexican cat was short changing him. i don't know why he'd think the girl was his angel. mothafucka tried to kill her dad. why would she care about him. but either way, dude learned a valuable lesson.

that felt horrible when i thought the lil girl was killed.

i'll continue in a bit. gotta work.

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His cd is also on i-tunes.

peace eldealo:


>at first, i wondered why don would have spoken that way to
>his mother, but i'm guessing she was probably incoherent to
>begin with. his attitude toward the whole thing made more
>sense to me because it seemed a little more clear that he
>would not really let her in because of his family situation
>and just didn't like talking about it.
>

That scene was illogic. One would only joke with someone who you have a close relationship with. His mother was hallucinating throughout the movie, why would you tell her "hey mom, I'm fcuking a white woman." wtf!


>i don't see why some were offended by this scene with thandie
>and howard and matt dillon. it was supposed to rub you the
>wrong way to show that a lot of brothas go through this. that
>is a fucked up decision either way.

It was n't the brutuality which many object to. It was how the persons thandie and howard were devalued and trivilized in an effort to redeem dillion. A privledge characters of color are rarely given.


>thandie/matt dillon - i regarded that scene as thandie
>struggling to let a racist asshole like dillon's character
>help her in order for her to live.

though I don't agree with this assertion, let's except it for arguements sake. Now, Newton after being abused by this man has to struggle to accept his help to save her life. Once again her life is at his mercy.

>the flip side to that was that dillon has to cope with the
>fact that a woman almost died because of his issues with black
>people and him physically assaulting her. that's the kind of
>shit that will stick with him for the rest of his life. i
>don't think the scene was trying to redeem him at all.

Dillion regret over newton/howard scene is never illustrated in the film. And if it was, maybe I missed it, it was short or weak at best.


>the persian guy i think it was more of a miscommunication
>based on stereotypes. he was cheap and thought the mexican cat
>was short changing him. i don't know why he'd think the girl
>was his angel. mothafucka tried to kill her dad. why would she
>care about him. but either way, dude learned a valuable
>lesson.
>
>that felt horrible when i thought the lil girl was killed.
>
>i'll continue in a bit. gotta work.
>
>MySpace
>http://www.myspace.com/chaidealo
>
>Check out my brother's band if you have a sec.
>http://cdbaby.com/cd/romeoblue
>
>His cd is also on i-tunes.

>peace eldealo:
>
>
>>at first, i wondered why don would have spoken that way to
>>his mother, but i'm guessing she was probably incoherent to
>>begin with. his attitude toward the whole thing made more
>>sense to me because it seemed a little more clear that he
>>would not really let her in because of his family situation
>>and just didn't like talking about it.
>>
>
>That scene was illogic. One would only joke with someone who
>you have a close relationship with. His mother was
>hallucinating throughout the movie, why would you tell her
>"hey mom, I'm fcuking a white woman." wtf!
>

naw brooklyn, i feel you. i don't understand it myself, but i took it that his issues were just that deep. since cheadle was one of the producers, i figured that he was aware that it seemed illogical. i would think she was too high to even hear it. but yeah, it was confusing.

>
>>i don't see why some were offended by this scene with
>thandie
>>and howard and matt dillon. it was supposed to rub you the
>>wrong way to show that a lot of brothas go through this.
>that
>>is a fucked up decision either way.
>
>It was n't the brutuality which many object to. It was how
>the persons thandie and howard were devalued and trivilized in
>an effort to redeem dillion. A privledge characters of color
>are rarely given.

Not sure i understand...

Are you saying that the director devalued and trivialized the characters? Or Dillon's characters actions did?

The reason I ask is because I felt that moviegoers related to Terence's and Thandie's characters more because of the fact that they were demoralized and violated. Thandie, Terence, and Michael Pena's characters were the most human to me, and I thought the bullshit they had to go through made them the most interesting.

>
>
>>thandie/matt dillon - i regarded that scene as thandie
>>struggling to let a racist asshole like dillon's character
>>help her in order for her to live.
>
>though I don't agree with this assertion, let's except it for
>arguements sake. Now, Newton after being abused by this man
>has to struggle to accept his help to save her life. Once
>again her life is at his mercy.

I can see why that could be troubling. Though it would have been nice to see her help herself, or at least her husband...I still thought it was a powerful scene. Perhaps its a bit idealistic, but I wouldn't put Dillon's character in a bubble and say he is any one thing. Sure, he is a dick, and a bigot, but I also thought he was someone that used to believe in his job and helping people and lost his way. I wasn't convinced or any kind of redemption either. Rather than judge a black male or female as an individual, he judged everyone based on the criminal segment that he'd come across and his father's misfortune.

>>the flip side to that was that dillon has to cope with the
>>fact that a woman almost died because of his issues with
>black
>>people and him physically assaulting her. that's the kind of
>>shit that will stick with him for the rest of his life. i
>>don't think the scene was trying to redeem him at all.
>
>Dillion regret over newton/howard scene is never illustrated
>in the film. And if it was, maybe I missed it, it was short
>or weak at best.

The way they focused on Dillon after they took her away was enough for me personally. While Thandie's character was grateful, I felt that she was conflicted after having to accept his help. As she walked away, it didn't look like the camera was focusing on a proud hero, but a man that had been humbled to an extent. We didn't get any cheesy smiles or speeches from Dillon. But only you can answer whether or not it was effective. He looked fucked up by it all. To some extent, I would think the director intended for the speculation. I think we are meant to wonder about his character. Is he going to evaluate his faults and try to be a better cop and person in general? Or is he gonna continue to be the same bigoted asshole?

Though the movie had some things I would have liked them to have done differently, I just interpreted that the overall message was trying to get across that you never know what kinda drama people go through in their lives.

I keep hearing the criticism that the coincidences were unbelievable but there is something I always want to point out to people. The movie revolves around the desire of the carjackers to carjack a Black SUV (Escalade, I think). So they carjack the DA, reacting to the description that a Black SUV has been highjack leads the cops to pull over the black TV director. Not much an unrealistic coincidence there right? Once the chop shop rejects the first Black SUV because of the concern about tracing the blood, the carjackers are back in the original predicament, they need to carjack a black SUV. That's why they carjack the Black TV director.
Thats why I don't find the scenario with the cops, Black TV director and carjackers all that coincidental. Maybe the copy running up on the woman he assaulted the night before is stretching it a little bit, but it still makes sense once you consider that a cop has a beat, so it ain't that much a coincidence that a cop would run into the same person within a 24 hour period if he is petrolling the same beat.
**********

Reality check: according to the 2000 census, there were more than 31,000 black physicians and surgeons, 33,000 black lawyers. There are about 1,400 black athletes playing professional basketball, football and baseball combined.

>The movie revolves around the desire of the
>carjackers to carjack a Black SUV (Escalade, I think).

It's like six degrees of... I experience what are seen as coincidences all the time but it was clear to me how the events could have been connected in the movie.

black SUV or not

Dillon happens to be in situation where he has to rescue the woman he just sexually assaulted from a burning car, while almost simultaneously, his partner Phillipe, who was witness to the sexual assault, just happens to be in a situation where he chases the woman's husband down, who happens to be in the car with Luda, who is the crime partner of the man Phillipe will conveniently pick up hitchhiking later that evening, and murder. and it just so happens that man he just killed is not only the brother of the investigating detective on the scene, but also happened to have earlier carjacked the SUV of the District Attorney who coincidentally, met with the investigating detective earlier that day.

that's a helluva coincidence.

I'm an L.A. native. there are quite a few people here

for that paragraph.

Well written and directed,Thought provoking
to say the least.the audience gasped during
certain scenes. but the scence where the
cop groped the producers wife was unsettling the most to me
hmm how would I react in a situtiaon like that n/m
along with the interaction between chedele and his on screen mom
was hardest to digest.
they way they made the rasict cop have likeable qualitys
(helping father,saving producers wife)was good direction
likeable qualitys in the villian is always thumbs up.
but overall his character he played had me pissed!!
overall @@@@ 1/2

I just posted this in Activist but...

I thought this movie was wack as hell for a couple of reasons:

1)lazily written. They should call this shit Deus Ex Machina - The Movie
All the aforementioned coincendences are just too much, too trite. And kinda insulting to my intelligence too. I was able to predict all the shit that happened 5 minutes before it happened. If i can do that, the movie is gonna be average, at best.

2)I had real MAJOR problems with the black couple and the police. Yo, how many more times in how many more ways in cinema can a black dude be dehumanized? How many more films are gonna display the redeemimng of white racist men through the bodies of black women? (I ain't even gonna get into the implied affair between brandon fraser and nona gaye...tacked on and unneccessary) When is the viewing public gonna get sick of it? Who the fuck knows? But I know I, for one, wanted to beat the scriptwriter with a fucking hammer when Matt Dillon became the tragic white boy hero by saving the black woman he earlier sexually assualted...complete with stirring music and cinematography. FUCK THAT! Meanwhile Terrence Howard becomes SUPERNIGGER, but only when he fighting other NIGGERS. (It's like Hollywood and America gets major milage out of the idea of black people as these superpredators and perpitrators of violence on white people, but somehow manage to never actually SHOW any Black-on-White violence. Black agression is never palatable when it's righteously directed at white folks.)

3)Um.....Thandie Newton's character was kinda fucked up. But then again, the women in this movie were kinda window dressing, so nevermind. Shit, did Nona Gaye even have a line?

All in all...i thought this shit was a safe, faux-edgy, big-budget, R-rated CBS movie of the week.

perfect movie indeed. i came out of the movie theater and my head was in a trip. peace.

redeems racist white men? The fact that he was producer makes it unlikely that a racist white cop could have been so easily redeemed. i think we're meant to decide for ourselves on what kind of path these characters take rather than just believe that everyone is back on the right path. each character made choices that had consequences that they will have to cope with and try to sort out.

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matt dillon saved thandie's life, but then his partner, who was supposed to be the good cop, killed an innocent man. it's a toss up.

believe that the story was trying to redeem dillon.

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Someone please show me the light cuz I don't see it?

Some of y'all to damn critical. I thought it was great!

yeah my audience was diverse too young and old

i'm so grateful i grew up in a multicultural environment, it gave me such knowledge on other people religions and all.

I disagree with White on many views since he is an absolutist but we share similar views here. This is the only critic I see dog this film. He confused Eva Mendez with Jennifer Esposito, though.

http://www.nypress.com/18/20/film/ArmondWhite2.cfm


WATTS THE MATTER WITH L.A.?
No, we can't just all get along.

By Armond White



Directed by Paul Haggis



Local critics praising Paul Haggis' Crash accidentally reveal racism so deeply hidden in their own privilege that they casually ignore it while expressing high-minded appreciation for this film's fake controversies. Nothing appeases a wounded culture more than a blanket condemnation of other people. Haggis' West Coast crazy quilt takes place so far away from reality that it has been greeted with an It-Couldn't-Happen-Here nonchalance.



Take The New Yorker's opening paen: "If there's an ill-tempered remark that has ever been uttered in the city of Los Angeles that hasn't found its way into Paul Haggis's Crash, I can't imagine what it is." But it is precisely a lack of imagination that allows one to accept Haggis' contrived coincidences and narrative flukes as a totalizing vision. The movie covers two days when L.A. residents of various ethnicities and professions cross paths and hurl unsurprising invectives. Haggis, who scripted the trumped-up melodrama Million Dollar Baby, once again facilitates critics' failure of imagination. That's how the entertainment complex works to sustain itself. These guardians of the status quo—Haggis among them—avoid admitting, confessing, realizing the real ways that social authority (whether legally held by the rich or criminally asserted by the poor) is used to the advantage of some people and against others.



Anyone who recognizes how people actually do talk about race and class should spot Haggis' contrivances as Neil LaBute-lite. "The racial comments are so blunt and the dialogue so incisive that you may want to shield yourself," cheered The New Yorker's American Sucker. Yet, the most cogent L.A. utterance recently recorded would probably be the 1996 Emerge Magazine quote of an L.A. disc jockey about the O.J. Simpson trial:Ê"If the word 'nigger' could light up the sky, Los Angeles wouldn't need street lights. That's how angry white people are." And that's a more vivid remark than any of the name-calling in Crash. Haggis dares to presume an L.A. expose without touching the firestorms of the O.J. or Rodney King trials. Backpedaling from those flashpoints and what they illuminated about social consciousness, he makes up a series of unbelievable random encounters.



Don Cheadle plays a black homicide detective who sleeps with his Latina partner (Eva Mendes). His mother (Beverly Todd) is a heroine addict, his brother (Larenz Tate) is a carjacker who, with his street homie (Chris "Ludacris" Bridges), steals a Navigator SUV that belongs to a district attorney (Brendan Fraser). When a Latino locksmith (Miguel Pena) refits the D.A.'s home security, the D.A.'s hostile wife (the film's producer, Sandra Bullock) insults the blue-collar worker. His problems continue when another dissatisfied customer—a paranoid Iranian shop-owner (Shaun Toub)—tracks down the locksmith and threatens his family. A third plot thread connects a middle-class black couple (Thandi Newton and Terence Howard) with a white racist cop (Matt Dillon) and his liberal partner (Ryan Phillippe). None of these entanglements reflects the culture of LaTasha Harlins, Reginald Denny, the Simi Valley jury or Michael Jackson's persecution/prosecution. Haggis creates a nightmare environment based on little more than his own middle-class white paranoia. Colored people are caricatures. Whites are tragic. Gullible critics applaud.



Crash appeals to the socially empowered—from The New Yorker to Entertainment Weekly—because its hackneyed melodrama doesn't demand imaginative self-examination. New Yorkers who mistake rudeness for honesty may also confuse insult for art. However, when the L.A. punk musicians X recorded "Los Angeles" in 1980, they looked at the tensions and prejudices from an upstart's position of social disgust. X got things right by admitting and undermining the twists of social and racial privilege. ("She started to hate every nigger and Jew/ Every Mexican who ever gave her a lot of shit/ Every homosexual and the idle rich/ It felt sad.")



In Haggis' dull perception, he blames Bullock's character for racial profiling but then demonstrates that her suspicions about black men are right. The Persian merchant's hysteria too closely recalls both Falling Down and the inane climax of The House of Sand and Fog (another shortcut to post-9/11 phobia). And the persistent reduction of the black male characters—Cheadle, Howard, Ludacris, Tate—to sputtering impotence reveals no personal empathy. Haggis' inability to humanize these types beyond sentimentalizing their confusion proves his exploitation impulse. It's the easy, comfortable route. So The New Yorker enthuses, "The tangle of mistrust, misunderstanding, and foul temper envelops everyone; no one is entirely innocent or entirely guilty." But good art doesn't deal with guilt/innocent binaries; those are judgmental terms used by social arbiters—or editorial writers. Crash's spurious raves reveal that film journalists play some part in reinforcing the ideologies we either participate in or resist.



It's some kind of cruel joke that Haggis' soap opera is praised by the very critics who ignored the miraculous, humanist vision of John Boorman's In My Country, and who just weeks ago praised the conventional black boogie-man racism of The Interpreter. They also rejected the challenge of Todd Solondz's recent and unnerving social satires. "Nothing to think about" snorted The New Yorker's dismissal of Palindromes. Well then, think about the ugly confrontation enshrined in Crash's advertising: Newton and Dillon in an anguished caress, summing up how the white cop who sexually molested a black woman saves her from a burning car wreck just a few hours later. This iconography—a febrile sequel to Monster's Ball—is simply shameless. Plus, the film is set at Christmas! Angelic chants underscore moments of stress!



Haggis doesn't have LaBute's art pretentions or misanthropy; but his earnest intentions are worse because they stand in the way of a cleansing mea culpa. Crash's message of nostra culpa allows everyone to look past how society goes bad. EW surmises: "Violent contact—in word or on wheels—is the only way left to reach out and touch somebody." That's limousine-liberal crap. (Black playwright August Wilson gave a better illustration in a recent Time magazine interview, relating an incident in which a white man at a diner moved his tip away from Wilson. "As if I wanted his two dollars!" Wilson sighed.)



Hostile behavior arises from cultural habits far less dramatic than any in Crash. It's a self-satisfying fantasy to think that exacerbating social problems braves a tough, modern truth. Haggis' guilt-orgy represents the same cynical attitude by which contemporary critics consider themselves superior to such politically astute and spiritually rich films as Gentleman's Agreement, Pinky and Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? Haggis wins praise for congratulating our critical constabulary about the fears they already hold (which in the past has made them insensitive to superior probings into race such as The Glass Shield, Smoke, Kansas City, Amistad, Beloved, Storytelling).



Progress eludes film culture when garbage like Crash is praised for its "brutal honesty." That's the pat on the back director-writer Haggis was after and precisely the non-response that makes the film's confrontation with racism ineffectual. Except for Bullock, who knowingly strikes the perfect, sorrowfully awakened note of destructive egotism, Crash is laughably implausible. But the media commendation it's garnered ("a must-see film") is dangerous. Shills have a stake in keeping the culture deluded, leaving viewers locked in their own prejudices, as divided as ever.



Volume 18, Issue 20
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I admit, this article makes me look at the film in a different way. It makes me think about other routes the story could have taken to be more effective. I would not condemn the movie as much as the writer did, but I do agree that some of the things were done on the safe side. Greater steps could have been taken to resolve some of the problems and conflicts that the characters were going through.

That's Hollywood for you. I think in their attempt to not alienate too many people, it succeeded in alienating others. The movie does spark dialogue, and that can never be bad. Arguments like yours and the authors need to be put out there so everyone isn't in unanimous agreement.

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i know some of you don't have much else to do....but....no.....each coincidence seemed to be another moment of irony, another moment of karma....so if they had intro'd MORE charaters to intereact with in each scene and the "main" characters dealt with them instead of each other, this movie wo0uld be better to you?

I was really moved by this movie today.

Very racially charged- I think regardless of your background you're gonna feel uncomfortable at least twice during this flick... Especially during the first 1/4 of the film which I felt was a little heavy handed in its message. Some of you have already touched on the 'force-fed' racism so I won't get into that. It was a bit much but I think it would be foolish to say 'oh people would NEVER react like that in real life!' I mean just look at the LA Riots not much longer than 10 years ago. Shit can get volatile. I really didn't see the force-fed moments of Crash as that big of a flaw.
In fact I think it helped the movie work to its fullest potential. Because you start out hating these flat, evil, 'bad guy' characters and then the darndest thing happens- they unfold into real, three dimensional human beings- with equal capacity for love and hate, flaw and triumph, cowardice and heroism. I think someone said they loved all the characters and at the same time hated all the characters. I feel that was pretty spot-on. They all had their up and down moments. In fact the only entirely unlikeable character in my opinion was Sandra Bullock. But I hate her in everything, so...

Probably my favorite example is Matt Dillon's character, the racist cop. In this movie he does such unspeakable, rotten things that you immediately just want to write him off as 'the bad guy' character for this movie. Crash doesn't make it that easy for you. As his story unfolds you find out he has an ailing father back home who he loves very much and works very hard to take care of. Later we witness him risk his life to save a woman from a burning car. Do these acts of valor excuse his bigotry? Of course not, but they do make him human. He can't be redeemed for what he's done no matter what. But at the same time it's difficult to box him in as being 'the good guy' or 'the bad guy'. Same goes for all the characters, really.

And that's where Crash really won me over. The characters were so damn human. They were scared, they were angry, they felt trapped, overcrowded and powerless- and these feelings often manifested themselves in the form of racism among other things. I felt like Crash treated racism as more of a symptom than a disease. It was part of a larger problem ingrained in the human condition. I found it to be a mature and interesting take on things.

For all the downer moments the movie had (and it could have had FAR more- was I the only one holding my breath during that scene with the Persian storeowner and the little girl protecting her father?) I felt it ended on a positive note and I walked out of that theater feeling good to be alive.

Powerful stuff, I definitely recommend.

(just got back from seeing it)

and i agree with alot of people here on alot of things
my random thoughts though:

i think the film NEEDED to be overtly racist (with all the characters being set up in some situation involving racism either due to their own views or those of others). i can understand people who say 'this was just over the top' but two things. 1- its a MOVIE and 2- you need to think that this is kinda like a case study and we are only looking at characters who are surrounded by or in a situation involving racism. the film would cease to make sense if there was a random story that was less to do with racism and instead introduced another facet to the movie. the over the top racism serves a purpose. i did think watching it that there are people like all these people out there somewhere. it is believable that their paths would cross once or twice


i thought the actors used were really great. they all did extremely well with the roles they had. the great thing was, there were alot of 'name' actors but i didn't sit there and think of it as 'oh here's don cheadle again' (if you know what i mean). all believable jobs and all very powerful in their own ways

some people have found the music over the top or whatever but i found it all quite powerful and affecting. i realised i was being manipulated emotionally while i was watching it, but there's nothing wrong with that. once again, the music served an important purpose
the reason why i didn't have a problem with it is because the dialogue itself wasn't corny, so the music added to the real emotions (if you know what i mean, again. lol)


so all in all i thoroughly enjoyed this

out of 10 i'd give it about a 9. i can't really think of anything i didn't like

although i do think the bullock/fraser story was a little underdeveloped and lacked the power of some of the others. but still, and i know i keep saying this, it did serve a PURPOSE and helped some of the other stories. so i deduct 1 point! hehe

saw it last night. an incredible modern cinematic portrayal of race/racism in america.

the scenes involving dillon/newton/howard alone speak volumes about the contemporary twist on the old master/enslavedwoman/man relationship...

every scene with michael pena was BRILLIANT. i teared up watching (and tear up just thinking about) the scene with his daughter and the invisibility cape. that was perhaps the most beautiful father daughter scene i have ever seen.

there were some flaws, but overall, this was the best movie i have seen since hotel rwanda and before that, city of god.

Perfect?
Of course not.
But that shit was ice cold.

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