Anybody see this flic yet? I'm curious what yall will think of this one.

Pretty crazy, and it will probably get a couple of Oscar nominations, though it won't win much. I ain't gonna reveal nothing, other to say that Halle Berry's sex scene was hardcore, and I don't mean in an arousing way. At all

Mos Def does aiight, and I actually thought Puffy did well

That's it,... I'm gonna stop bullshitin and see that damn movie.


Alice: Which road do I take?
Cheshire Cat: Where do you want to go?
Alice: I don't know!
Cat: Then it doesn't matter which road you take.
~Alice in Wonderland

She gets it every which way. Apparently they had to cut out parts of the scene in order to avoid an NC-17 rating

Do you think it would be possible to see those scenes, unedited?
Maybe on the DVD?


Alice: Which road do I take?
Cheshire Cat: Where do you want to go?
Alice: I don't know!
Cat: Then it doesn't matter which road you take.
~Alice in Wonderland

i swear, this was some bull, for real.

even the much-vaunted sex-scene didn't make it worthwhile.

i'll be back later to tell you *why* it was bull, but for now just take my word for what it's worth (which may not be much) this is a TERRIBLE movie... and maybe even a little unwitingly racist one.

If you're gonna do that atleast give us a reason NOW.
I almost never take Okayplayer's words (without some supporting details) as advice.


Alice: Which road do I take?
Cheshire Cat: Where do you want to go?
Alice: I don't know!
Cat: Then it doesn't matter which road you take.
~Alice in Wonderland

the film was terribly paced, ineptly directed, and full of heavy-handed imagery. it seemed to be wanting to say something about race in America, though it didn't know what.

Halle Berry's performance was good, but unfortunately, she was still wrong for the role. i'm sorry, but she is just too beautiful. they trying to skank her up a bit, but she still looks like a model. in scenes where i'm supposed to be sucked in to what is going on in the lives of these small-town normal folks, i was totally distracted by what a bombshell figure she had in that tight skirt and little blouse with her nipples poking through (and i'm usually NOT attracted to Halle, mind)and wondering why this woman is having so many problems when she could easily go to New York and be a top model!

if a "regular"-looking sister had played Halle's part, maybe the sex scene would not have seemed as exploitative as it did. it just felt like the classic Hollywood white man fantasy of banging the shit out of some beautiful, confused, tragic mulattress... it was totally improbable, especially the manner in which Halle came on to Billy Bob. and the scene seemed so self-conscious and uncomfortable, i had to turn away from it.

the ending... it has one of those conclusions where the film maker doesn't have the balls or the vision to actually say anything so he tries to make you think that he's being sort of ambiguous and working your imagination by leaving it open-ended. i was insulted.

forgive me for just dropping these random, semi-thoughts... i haven't been able to collect all my feelings about the movie into an articulate mass yet, but i tell you... i almost walked out. and i NEVER walk out of a movie.

I'm waitin for the videotape.


~MUSE

DPP (Domepome Poets) for life...
---------------------------------

"i dreamt beating drums in unison of
kindred spirits searching the winter
night speaking of dance and life in the
wild" - thoughtremedy

My Page
-------
http://members.blackplanet.com/MUSE/

My Pic
------
http://www.welcome.to/okaypoets/

Never read another AFKAP_of_Darkness review. I would wait for you to collect your thoughts, but I have a feeling that's never going to happen.

I'm led to believe I shouldn't watch this movie because:

You were forced to think.
You couldn't keep your eyes off Berry long enough appreciate it.
You weren't spoonfed the conclusion (Which was quite clear.)
You missed the point.

The film said about race everything it intended to. It's a shame you missed it; it seems you could use a little help in the area yourself. Your interpretation of the sex scene is infinitely pathetic. You've taken a turning point in the movie and written it off as a white man's fantasy. The scene was necessarily violent. Several points were made here that needed to be, especially about Hank's growth as a character:

She was giving into desires she'd been dealing with for ELEVEN years. Is it so hard to believe that she'd be somewhat urgent? He was used to banging prostitutes bent over hotel windowsills. (Or did it not occur to you that there was relevance to the earlier scene?) Her response to the pounding was, at first, not positive. Her facial expressions were very telling. As the scene progressed, they grew increasingly gentle and passionate. Much character growth on his part was illustrated here on two fronts, love and race. This trend was continued during the second sex scene between the two. His acts were both passionate and selfless. I agree that it was disturbing, but it had to be. Deal with it.

The movie was very solid and extremely well done. That it is beyond your feeble intelligence is unfortunate, but don't be insulted, be honest: you have yourself to blame.

"I'm going back to the ones that I know,
With whom I can be what I want to be.
Just one week for the feeling to go;
With you there to help me, it probably will."

~Ian Anderson

Not that I agree with AFKAP but any points you made in this post is lost by insulting his intelligence. Even if he didn't 'get it' why not just explain it without the superiority complex?

Shaun G.

Ultimately, attacking his intelligence was the only point. He was unnecessarily harsh, so I was too. It was a parody of sorts. Equate "Don't see this movie" with my refusal to ever read anything he has to say again. My response was just about as ignorant as his original post; that's what I was going for. I didn't really think I had a chance of convincing him of anything, otherwise I might have gone about it differently. At least I had a good time.

Good question, though. If I were always like that, I'd have a hard time living with myself.


"I'm going back to the ones that I know,
With whom I can be what I want to be.
Just one week for the feeling to go;
With you there to help me, it probably will."

~Ian Anderson

what exactly was ignorant about my original assessment?

i stated my damn opinion.

if you disagree, fine. but don't start getting hurt feelings because you don't agree.

i didn't want to talk too much about Monsters Ball because i felt it was a fairly inconsequential and exploitative film, but just for YOU, i will get into it.

later today. i'll be back.

Perhaps you're taking this a little seriously. I never thought I'd be able to convince you of anything, and I'll go out on a limb and guarantee that you'll prove unable to persuade me if you choose to continue this. You stated your opinion, and I, mocking your way of going about it, stated mine.


"I'm going back to the ones that I know,
With whom I can be what I want to be.
Just one week for the feeling to go;
With you there to help me, it probably will."

~Ian Anderson

mocking or not, when you suggest that my opinion was formed around my annoyance that the film required me to THINK (it didn't, by the way), i will tell you exactly what i think.

and i hope you'll be here, ready to defend your point of view, because i will be attempting to rip it to shreds.

>Never read another AFKAP_of_Darkness review.
>I would wait for you
>to collect your thoughts, but
>I have a feeling that's
>never going to happen.
>

damn, son... you gotta be like that, huh?

>I'm led to believe I shouldn't
>watch this movie because:
>
>You were forced to think.

actually, i was forced NOT to think.

>You couldn't keep your eyes off
>Berry long enough appreciate it.
>

no... you misread me. i generally don't even find Halle that hot.

>You weren't spoonfed the conclusion (Which
>was quite clear.)

what WAS the conclusion.

>You missed the point.
>

which was?

>The film said about race everything
>it intended to.

which was?

It's
>a shame you missed it;
>it seems you could use
>a little help in the
>area yourself. Your interpretation
>of the sex scene is
>infinitely pathetic. You've taken
>a turning point in the
>movie and written it off
>as a white man's fantasy.
> The scene was necessarily
>violent. Several points were
>made here that needed to
>be, especially about Hank's growth
>as a character:
>
>She was giving into desires she'd
>been dealing with for ELEVEN
>years. Is it so
>hard to believe that she'd
>be somewhat urgent? He
>was used to banging prostitutes
>bent over hotel windowsills.
>(Or did it not occur
>to you that there was
>relevance to the earlier scene?)
> Her response to the
>pounding was, at first, not
>positive. Her facial expressions
>were very telling. As
>the scene progressed, they grew
>increasingly gentle and passionate.
>Much character growth on his
>part was illustrated here on
>two fronts, love and race.
> This trend was continued
>during the second sex scene
>between the two. His
>acts were both passionate and
>selfless. I agree that
>it was disturbing, but it
>had to be. Deal
>with it.
>
>The movie was very solid and
>extremely well done. That
>it is beyond your feeble
>intelligence is unfortunate, but don't
>be insulted, be honest: you
>have yourself to blame.
>

oh, it's personal now, huh?

see... i don't spend too much time on this Reviews Boatrd, but you have made me mad. tell me what you think the point was and i will give you my indepth analysis.

fuck this shit.

i enjoyed the film very much and your breakdown of the unnecessarily controversial sex scene was on point..there were elements that went right over my head

especially funny was the part when he sent his dad away...the director's timing was perfect. The scene could not have been done any better...i laughed so hard.

d


"They're all here, the black American incongraphic array, making final preparations for Elysium approximately five hundred years after our arrival in this purgatory. The well-dressed guy who worked in the corporate mailroom and malapropped his way through your patronizing efforts to engage him in small talk wonders if he left the stove on, then laughs aloud at the absurdity of it all. That fine young black thing you drooled over in eigth-grade gym class struts up and down the block looking for one last world to rock. The woman who sat next to you clutching her handbag while you waited for the morning bus and then elbowed you in the solar plexus fighting for a seat plans to call her boss and talk shit until the last minute, then put the reciever to the explosion, saying, "I won't be in to work tomorrow. I'll be a fuckin' evaporated carbon dustball. You slave-drivin' fuck." - White Boy Shuffle by Paul Beatty


Sat 12-2am WBAI 99.5FM in NY

Pandemonium Wrekordz New York
David Banks coming at you soon
you've been warned.



AIM: DrDamali - "office hours" are from 12pm - 1pm weekdays

find halle attractive that often

Truly got on my nerves.
***Spoil Somewhat***
The sex scene where Halle's like "Make me feel good" and moaning and groanin all over the place was the sickest. Dude Effs her right after her son dies. No way on this earth you can be that horny 20 minutes after your child dies, unlesss.....
1)you have nymphomania
2)life has made you extremely heartless(Which I'm thinking is the writer's point, but he's still not getting into the heads of the heartless, the sex scene just comes off stereotypical. It seems like for that sex scene he jacked some of the the script and premise for the scene in Beloved, where Beloved is craving to feel good(n some other stuff) and asks Danny glover to "Touch me onduh inside".

They get a major violation for that one.

I haven't even gotten to her contrived southern/illiterate seeming accent. Sounded like she took classes

Anyway, I'll be back to discuss




"They shot Cornbread!!! They shot Cornbread!!! 'N he ain't do nhuuuuuthin!!! They shot Cornbread!!!"-Cornbread Earl & Me

Thought provoking records radio never played them-Dre 3000

Brothers and others outside my door want to despise me reminds me that everyone ain't cool the world is jealous never could understand when my momma use to tell us don't take your food outside around your friends unless you got enough to feed the neighborhood"-Dre 3000

Why, must we fly so low? Are we afraid of heights, do kites get lost in the tow.-Dre 3000

Don't get caught up in my chains, or the way that I speak seek intelligence...-Big Face Ghost

Woolly hair, eyes fiery red feet made of brass twelve men, following me it be the God staff.-Big Face Ghost

Now I believe in myself more than anything. And I suppose in a way that's also believing in God. If there is a God and he made you, then if you are believing in yourself you're believing in Him.-Jimi Hendrix

I saw the movie with a psychologist, and when I made the criticism that "she was too ready for sex so soon after her son's death"

he told me that it is actually quite common for those grieving to reach out and look for physical satisfaction. He said he has seen it many many times before.

Kinda flipped my whole view after that.

The person I was with said the same thing.--that I understood. Maybe I was more frustrated with Halle's acting during the sex scene. Sumthin just wasn't right about the way in which she let him go at it.(Kind of reminded me of her jitteriness in Jungle Fev).
I honestly have to watch it again to comment on the Captain Save a 'hoe factor though.

white man buys his way out of his racist roots. oh, and he puts his dad in a home. mostly cause he was cockblocking, but hey, he was a racist, so yippee. now all us white folks feel warm and fuzzy since we've solved racism.

It seems very apparent to me that most of yall's problem is resting solely on the fact that the movie doesn't fullfil any yearnings or expectations.
Me,... I want to see a movie that goes totally off the deep end, and doesn't just GIVE me what I want.
As much as people are saying "I hate the movie!" or "Don't see it!", ...there sure seems to be a lot of yall mofos saying that.
I mean damn,... I bet some of yall saw it 2wice. But, yet,...you hate it?
Now,....as far as that lustly and shameless sex scene.... for THAT reason ALONE, I will see the movie. Why? Because it's not you're typical "oh, we're in love" scene (where it fits into convention).
I mean, shit.... life doesn't always mold into conveinience.


Alice: Which road do I take?
Cheshire Cat: Where do you want to go?
Alice: I don't know!
Cat: Then it doesn't matter which road you take.
~Alice in Wonderland

it's not based on "expectations"

the movie is just shallow and exploitative.

but son't take my word for it... go see it yourself.

>>life doesn't always
>mold into conveinience.

"Next to God we are indebted to Afrikan women, first for
giving us life and secondly for making that life worth
living." -Mary Mc Leod Bethune

"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"We are not a problem people. We are merely people, who have problems."-Dorothy I. Height(from We Are Not Vanishing)

where HILLARIOUS. I like how they just cut to it all of a sudden.
Peace.

DRE Allah allah@metalab.unc.edu
http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/physical
Physical Science Productions

This is a movie that relies greatly on direction, angles, and interpretation. The dialogue is somewhat sparse and slow, and may contribute to boredom.

As for the way Billy Bob deals with his racism, I thought it was well done. In most movies with this angle, the main character (always white) deals an unrealistic, emotional, soul-searching monologue topped with an epiphany to make everyone in the theater cry. Monster's Ball avoided this, and I applaud the director greatly for that.

Billy Bob does not send his father away because he is being cock-blocked. Billy Bob is ignorant, and knows little about people before Halle comes around the way. He knows no love (never mentions wife, doesn't love son/dad, dad didn't love son/grandson or wife). He meets Halle only when he tries to save her son (though he had incidentally seen her before). On this dark, rainy night, he could not have known Halle was a bombshell (and black, for that matter). His actions in that scene were raw, real, and confused. So no, I don't think he saw Halle as a sex symbol. I mean, he was trying to leave her house when Halle practically jumped him.

As for Halle's need to feel love after her son and husband die, I think it is realistic. This is totally my speculation, but in many of my psychology classes we have discussed the need for love and passion after losing a loved one. This does not make her a nymphomaniac.

Just my thoughts...
********************************************************************************
"Look at you, y'so purty." FANatic of Shania Twain, on MTV

"Go mush yaself." Rachel S.

>As for the way Billy Bob
>deals with his racism, I
>thought it was well done.
> In most movies with
>this angle, the main character
>(always white) deals an unrealistic,
>emotional, soul-searching monologue topped with
>an epiphany to make everyone
>in the theater cry.
>Monster's Ball avoided this, and
>I applaud the director greatly
>for that.

I agree with you here. I was expecting the standard melodramatic Hollywood-style
'racism-is-wrong' speech and was suprised and glad that I
didn't get it.

>
>As for Halle's need to feel
>love after her son and
>husband die, I think it
>is realistic. This is
>totally my speculation, but in
>many of my psychology classes
>we have discussed the need
>for love and passion after
>losing a loved one.
>This does not make her
>a nymphomaniac.

Yeah, I think she would have done that to whoever would have
helped her that night.

I do think they dropped the ball at the end with Halle's character not saying anything about finding the drawings.

I just don't think that this relationship is going to work out at all. It's all based on guilt, desperation and isolation, not exactly the most stable ways to start a relationship.

Shaun G.

>I do think they dropped the
>ball at the end with
>Halle's character not saying anything
>about finding the drawings.

it was perfect. We all expected her to flip out on dude..maybe shoot him or something. But it showed us how complex emotions can be. She made a choice and that choice was to accept this new love/life she's found regardless of how it came about. She would have lost a 3rd person that she cared about otherwise and she knew she couldn't bear that...A very mature decision for her character...that was good writing to me.

d

souls walking in unison along the Paths To Perfection...change your vibration and you will find a key to unlock all the Heavenly Glory.

i don't have much to add to the current discussion that hasn't already been said. i thought it was a great movie and i'm glad i chose to see it without taking into consideration things people told me about it. some of which were that it was very racist, depressing as all hell, and explicit. i guess it all depends on your frame of mind. i have my thoughts about certain scenes, but aside from that i thought it was a great movie! well worth an oscar nomination for halle.







souls walking in unison along the Paths To Perfection...change your vibration and you will find a key to unlock all the Heavenly Glory.

Everybody has said almost everything i was thinking. I am kind of bothered by the fact that the sex scene was so graphic. If that was julia roberts or gweneth paltrow, would have been that damn graphic? Probably not. But the scene does make sense with the pace of the movie. I just wished that "leticia" wasn't made to depend on Billy Bob so much, it's kinda like the white man has to save the sister. But at the same time i understand it from a cinematic standpoint. Puff didn't blow my mind but he did his thing. Mos was cool, it was hard to take that accent but i wish he had more lines. Heath Ledger was great. Peter Boyle went completely against his sitcom self and he might deserve an oscar nod over Ethan Hawke.

Thought provoking records radio never played them-Dre 3000

Brothers and others outside my door want to despise me reminds me that everyone ain't cool the world is jealous never could understand when my momma use to tell us don't take your food outside around your friends unless you got enough to feed the neighborhood"-Dre 3000

Why, must we fly so low? Are we afraid of heights, do kites get lost in the tow.-Dre 3000

Don't get caught up in my chains, or the way that I speak seek intelligence...-Big Face Ghost

Woolly hair, eyes fiery red feet made of brass twelve men, following me it be the God staff.-Big Face Ghost

Now I believe in myself more than anything. And I suppose in a way that's also believing in God. If there is a God and he made you, then if you are believing in yourself you're believing in Him.-Jimi Hendrix

>Everybody has said almost everything i
>was thinking. I am kind
>of bothered by the fact
>that the sex scene was
>so graphic. If that was
>julia roberts or gweneth paltrow,
>would have been that damn
>graphic?

..yes, it would have. the point of the scene was to show desperation this was the ONE scene where race was the least factor that was focused upon. the fact that she came on to him (awkwardly), repeating the phrase "make me feel good" was the whole point. she wanted to escape the pain and frustration that she felt. (not to mention, she was drunk!) his normal method of escape was to have sex with a prostitute doggy-style (believed to be less personal), with no emotion, and that's why this scene started the way it did, but it didn't end there. they ended up in a much more personal position of interaction, which (i thought) symbolized a change.


*we need a remedy

"..y'all must've forgot!" {roy jones, jr.}

" ..and miles to go before i sleep... " {frost}

{AIM: CyrenYoung}

I don't believe that either of those two actresses would be willing to do a scene like that. Actresses have a lot of clout in terms of their nudity, and top-billing actresses (Halle Berry) don't get forced into nudity like that. They have to be willing, which Halle was.
In fact, I saw her in an interview saying that she was making a "conscious effort" to get nude on screen because it did a lot for her self-esteem and in turn, her sex life. It was also a decision that her husband, Eric Benet, encouraged.
********************************************************************************

"Hitler was such an amazing speaker, I would listen to him on the radio and practically cream myself." - My Jewish, 70-something english professor.

Thought provoking records radio never played them-Dre 3000

Brothers and others outside my door want to despise me reminds me that everyone ain't cool the world is jealous never could understand when my momma use to tell us don't take your food outside around your friends unless you got enough to feed the neighborhood"-Dre 3000

Why, must we fly so low? Are we afraid of heights, do kites get lost in the tow.-Dre 3000

Don't get caught up in my chains, or the way that I speak seek intelligence...-Big Face Ghost

Woolly hair, eyes fiery red feet made of brass twelve men, following me it be the God staff.-Big Face Ghost

Now I believe in myself more than anything. And I suppose in a way that's also believing in God. If there is a God and he made you, then if you are believing in yourself you're believing in Him.-Jimi Hendrix

>I don't believe that either of
>those two actresses would be
>willing to do a scene
>like that. Actresses have
>a lot of clout in
>terms of their nudity, and
>top-billing actresses (Halle Berry) don't
>get forced into nudity like
>that. They have to
>be willing, which Halle was.

..what's wrong with halle bein' "willing" to do a scene like this? we all have our own opinions, but that doesn't mean we should impose our views on others.


*we need a remedy

"..y'all must've forgot!" {roy jones, jr.}

" ..and miles to go before i sleep... " {frost}

{AIM: CyrenYoung}

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Halle be willing to bear all. Somebody above (Mr_Mystery, I believe) said that the scene would not have been so graphic had the actresses been Paltrow or Roberts. I thought this alluded to some belief that studios wouldn't force lily white actresses to get graphic, but they would force Halle Berry.

I was not commenting on the scene at all, if that is your question. All I was saying was that this scene does not demean Halle unwillingly, as I felt some people might've believed. It was her choice to do it in the way it was done.

********************************************************************************

"Hitler was such an amazing speaker, I would listen to him on the radio and practically cream myself." - My Jewish, 70-something english professor.

although i agree with you on the gwyneth and julia aspect, i don't think that part was written for a white actress to play.

the directors initially didn't want to give halle the part because they thought that she was too attractive and would take away from leticia's character.

you're right in saying that she was willing to do the scene that way, but i believe any actress given the part would have to have played it that way because that's how it was written.
the graphicness totally fits in the storyline because i believe it had been, at the most, eleven years since she had been made to "feel good." so couple that with the tragic events that had occurred in leticia's life all at once w/ the drunkeness and you've got yourself a racy sex scene.




souls walking in unison along the Paths To Perfection...change your vibration and you will find a key to unlock all the Heavenly Glory.

"ahh...i'm snuggly saaawft." (c)porcupine, snuggle commercial

I saw this movie last night, and it was good, but it wasn't great.

I felt that the point of the movie was that these two tragic characters, wrapped in an ironic twist, were stuck with where they're lives were going. They both needed someone, no matter who it was.

Hank WAS a racist, but his life came to a point where his life was empty (no job, no son, no future prospects) and race wasn't a factor to him anymore. I'm still trying to figure out what those clips were during the sex scene. Were they hands in a birdcage trying to catch a bird? That went too quick for me.

I also think that this wasn't a 'white man comes to save the black woman' movie. Leticia could've said something when she saw the drawings at the end - but what then? Where would Leticia go? They are both desperate characters looking for company...again, in that tragic kind of way.

What was the explanation of the Monster's Ball anyway?



"I got into hip hop when I first ordered Wu-Tang Forever from my Dad's Columbia House music catalog" (c)JRennolds

"Now, you look at those pics of Jag in those strappy sandals and tell me you don't get the shimmer shine feelin, Jim." (c) HoChiGrimm

is a party that is thrown the night before an execution

"Next to God we are indebted to Afrikan women, first for
giving us life and secondly for making that life worth
living." -Mary Mc Leod Bethune

"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"We are not a problem people. We are merely people, who have problems."-Dorothy I. Height(from We Are Not Vanishing)

why did Billy Bob's racist feelings switch so quickly after his son's death?

Did the shock of seeing his son kill himself shock him into it?

I found this transition to be a little far fetched.

It seemed he was already changing his ways before he even picked up Barry and her son that night.

[]when she asked about his son

intially the death didnt seem to change much

I agree. A friend and I saw it on Friday and both felt his transisition was just too extreme. It is almost unfathomable that he all of sudden no longer harbored those racist feelings. But I was thinking perhaps he really never was a racist that this behavior and actions were motivated by his father and circumstances which made him feel as though he had to behave in that manner. His son killing himself was sorta a wake up call like, what am I doing? There is no cause for me to act this way.

Overall, the movie sustained my interest but haven't decided if I liked it....

i kinda feel that he didn't make some HUGE transformation..he still had those feelings and were trying to overcome them but Leticia was special because of their bond. I think if the movie had "continued" we would have still seen him struggling in some ways with it...

like a scene where he goes to the doctor and won't let the black doctor touch him even tho Leticia is there...or him not wanting to have a black child with her

or maybe its a little of both theories

d


Sat 12-2am WBAI 99.5FM in NY

Pandemonium Wrekordz New York
David Banks coming at you soon
you've been warned.

Film Review
Halle Berry's breasts not the only things exposed in "Monster's Ball"

By Yemi Toure
Editor, HYPE

If movies could be convicted of a crime, this one would be on Death
Row.

OK, "Monster's Ball" is beautifully shot. And the music is haunting in
this
tale of race, sex, violence and twisted lives in a small town in
post-Sixties Georgia.

And yes, there is some great acting by Halle Berry, Billy Bob Thorton,
P.Diddy and newcomer Coronji Calhoun.
And yes, Halle Berry shows her breasts in the infamous sex scene --
more on
that later.

But even with all of that, the writers of the script should be charged
with
a crime for the way they created the lead Black female character
Leticia,
played by Berry. She is written to be as weak as a wet paper bag, so
weak
that you wonder if there isn't some twisted white male fantasy about
Black
women going on here.

For one thing, Berry's character Leticia is horribly insulted to her
face
by her white boyfriend's father, an insult involving sex and race, but
Leticia does nothing about it but storm out of a house.

For another thing, she found out that her white boyfriend (Hank) had
been
exceedingly dishonest with her: He was a prison official who directed
the
execution of her husband -- and he never tells her! His silence is
morally
indefensible, but he did not pay any price for this gross dishonesty to
this Black woman, which continued throughout the film -- and she did
not
require anything of him for that crime when she finally found out.

This weakness even carries over into the sex scene you have heard so
much
about. In the middle of it, the scriptwriters had Leticia say to Hank,
"I
want you to make me feel good". More than once. So even in the midst of
the
most talked-about scene in the film, Leticia is still written to be
dependent on someone else -- even for a good screw.

Oh -- about those boobies: They aiight. The scene could have worked
just as
well without exposing them.

On her way to the top of her game, Berry has exposed her breasts in two
films, this one and "Swordfish". Does she worry about what others
think? In
one interview, Berry says: "Without sounding flip or rude, I don't
really
care".

Well, Halle, flip the script:

Julia Roberts is at the top of HER game, and she has exposed her
breasts
not at all to get there. Not even in "Pretty Woman", where she played a
prostitute. Even in the bathtub scene.

And that reminds me -- in "Monster's Ball", there are two women who
expose
their breasts -- Leticia and a white prostitute.

Hmmmmmm.

What understanding did these white scriptwriters have of Black life? If
you
are Black and poor and female, like Leticia, and you are down and out
and
alone, who do you call on? Your family, your community, your Creator.
But
as writer Rori Blakeney points out, in "Monster's Ball" the
scriptwriters
created a character who has no extended family around her. A character
who
does not turn to her community for help. A character whose husband was
executed and whose son was killed and who is about to get evicted from
her
place, and who only turns to a white male for aid.

At four different points in the film, Leticia is without a car, and is
out
on the street in the small town and in need of a ride. The script has
Hank
just happening to drive by -- not once, not twice, not three times, but
all
four times. What an easy out for the scriptwriters. What a poor plot
for us.

By this time, the script has turned into a pile of crap with this white
male showing up -- like in too many other films -- as the savior.

Also, the writers have Hank's son dead and buried before the family
cleans
up his blood from the living room furniture. Excuse me?

And don't get me started about the use of the n-word. In one tense
scene,
Hank uses the term against a fellow prison guard. That's real. No
problem
with that. But the Black guard says nothing about it, does nothing
about
it. Does Hank later pay any price for this? None.

And it gets deeper.

Hank, Leticia's boyfriend, likes to eat chocolate ice cream with a
white
plastic spoon. What's the big deal, you ask? On a movie set, nothing is
accidental; everything has to be selected. So do we have some race and
color symbolism at work here in the chocolate ice cream and the white
spoon?

As writer Blakeney points out, "chocolate ice cream and a plastic spoon
could possibly represent the fact that Hank always
wanted a Black woman. In other words, the spoon serves as a phallic
symbol
that is always dipping into the chocolate."

The race game even shows up in that old symbol of the good guys in the
white hats.

Leticia's Black husband is executed, and she later hocks her wedding
ring
at a pawn shop, runs right across the street to another shop and uses
the
money to buy her white boyfriend a white cowboy hat.

We got that message: Destroy the Black male, get rid of any memory of
him,
take what you have left and use it to pump up the white male.

All that color and race symbolism is deep. Where is psychiatrist
Frances
Cress Welsing <http://www.ayaed.com/hype/babyboy/2.htm> when we need
her?
And where can you get tools to analyze these films?
<http://www.ayaed.com/hype/measure1.html>

You think these writers have little appreciation of only Black folx?
Even
white females don't survive the scriptwriters' slash and burn.

There are three main white females: The white prostitute. The unseen
white
grandmother who committed suicide. The unseen white mother who is
spoken of
so badly. And none of them are likable characters.

This film is not for kiddies. There is a graphic execution by electric
chair, an explicit suicide, the death of a child, more than one
soul-less
sex scene. Characters are emotionally and physically abusive. We don't
want
our children to learn to smoke and drink, but those habits are shown
here
as normal and acceptable.

So why were there so many children in the Atlanta theater where I saw
this
-- even 4-, 5- and 6-year olds? Because so many adults brought them.

Not all the crimes were on the screen.

On the surface, this flick is about sex, race, crime and violence.
Underneath, it is about sex, race, crime and violence. What are the
tools
that while males use to maintain their supremacy? Sex, race, crime and
violence.

By the end of the film, the Black male is dead, the Black female has
lost
her husband, her son and her house, and she has been
thoroughly walked on by the white male, and the white male is eating
that
chocolate ice cream with that white spoon, and
even feeding it to the helpless and child-like Black female.

If this film had said during the opening credits, "This film is about
white
male supremacy," they would not have had to change a single thing to
fulfill that declaration.

By the closing credits, the only one still standing and "whole" and not
dependent is the white male.

And that's a crime. -- (c)2002 Yemi Toure, www.afrikan.net/hype



"Next to God we are indebted to Afrikan women, first for
giving us life and secondly for making that life worth
living." -Mary Mc Leod Bethune

"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"We are not a problem people. We are merely people, who have problems."-Dorothy I. Height(from We Are Not Vanishing)

Quote of a lifetime:

"Can you feel what I'm saying..."
-Minnie Riperton

"Watch what you say to me, prick..."
-Freeway

"I'm 'bout ta come, Boo-Boo..."
-Ghostface Killah

"what's my name, motherf**ker?!!!"
-Will Smith as Ali

"they want to make me quit, but I'm not gonna stop until I feel like it.."
-Michael Jackson

AIM:scorpius7541

Why didn't nobody else in town try to get with the fine Leticia, I know mos was a family man, but somebody had to see how fine she was.

Thought provoking records radio never played them-Dre 3000

Brothers and others outside my door want to despise me reminds me that everyone ain't cool the world is jealous never could understand when my momma use to tell us don't take your food outside around your friends unless you got enough to feed the neighborhood"-Dre 3000

Why, must we fly so low? Are we afraid of heights, do kites get lost in the tow.-Dre 3000

Don't get caught up in my chains, or the way that I speak seek intelligence...-Big Face Ghost

Woolly hair, eyes fiery red feet made of brass twelve men, following me it be the God staff.-Big Face Ghost

Now I believe in myself more than anything. And I suppose in a way that's also believing in God. If there is a God and he made you, then if you are believing in yourself you're believing in Him.-Jimi Hendrix

If she had gotten together with anyone else, the film wouldn't have been the single most offensive film I can remember seeing.

Since the goal of the filmmakers was evidently to piss off any thinking human being, it could only have worked out as it did.

Peace.

Interested in meditation? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OkayDharma

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

It does piss anyone and everyone off in someway huh? A good movie, but damn it will fuck up your date for the whole nite. You leave the movie, like "damn that was something huh"? BUt you can't make that let's do something tonight transition.

Thought provoking records radio never played them-Dre 3000

Brothers and others outside my door want to despise me reminds me that everyone ain't cool the world is jealous never could understand when my momma use to tell us don't take your food outside around your friends unless you got enough to feed the neighborhood"-Dre 3000

Why, must we fly so low? Are we afraid of heights, do kites get lost in the tow.-Dre 3000

Don't get caught up in my chains, or the way that I speak seek intelligence...-Big Face Ghost

Woolly hair, eyes fiery red feet made of brass twelve men, following me it be the God staff.-Big Face Ghost

Now I believe in myself more than anything. And I suppose in a way that's also believing in God. If there is a God and he made you, then if you are believing in yourself you're believing in Him.-Jimi Hendrix

>If she had gotten together with
>anyone else, the film wouldn't
>have been the single most
>offensive film I can remember
>seeing.

that's a bit of an exaggeration, miss janey :-)

>Since the goal of the filmmakers
>was evidently to piss off
>any thinking human being, it
>could only have worked out
>as it did.

ok..you didn't like it and you were offended. fine. but don't act like anyone who wasn't pissed off isn't a thinking person...i took the story for what is was...i found the film very interesting and nothing offended me about it.

Everyone's entitled to them. I am. You are. We are all entitled to our opinion. My opinion is that it was racist drivel and had no redeeming value. Your opinion is that it was relevant. Can't we all get along, Damali? Isn't that the message of the film?


Peace.

Interested in meditation? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OkayDharma

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

opinions are wonderful. but i was mainly pointing out that it seemed like you were saying anyone who didn't agree with you wasn't a thinking person.

and since we're here, tell me what you thought of Storytelling...i found it empty and lacking of any real point...i'm actually hoping you saw it and liked it so you can tell me what i missed...cuz i really wanted to like it. Todd's other two movies were so great

d

I talked about it a lot on another thread...

In re: Monster's Ball, didn't you find it offensive that the story was about a woman whose black husband couldn't take care of her (in his own words, he was a "bad man"), who couldn't take care of herself, who couldn't take care of her son (couldn't even keep him from walking in the street and getting killed) and who has nowhere to turn and no one to turn to except a white man who has been the most racist of human beings throughout his life and his family history? And don't you find it a little facile that just getting a little from Halle Berry (who is the most beautiful woman in the world but is imo the worst actress in the world) he is suddenly transformed into a peace loving, inclusive man who locks away all his racist past into old folks homes and his attic after he has pulled the plug on his squeeze's husband?

I was disgusted. And it may sound like an exaggeration, but I honestly can't think of a film that offended me more.

xxoo :*

Peace.

Interested in meditation? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OkayDharma

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

>I talked about it a lot
>on another thread...

i saw it...thanks :-)

>In re: Monster's Ball, didn't you
>find it offensive that the
>story was about a woman
>whose black husband couldn't take
>care of her (in his
>own words, he was a
>"bad man"), who couldn't take
>care of herself, who couldn't
>take care of her son
>(couldn't even keep him from
>walking in the street and
>getting killed) and who has
>nowhere to turn and no
>one to turn to except
>a white man who has
>been the most racist of
>human beings throughout his life
>and his family history?
>And don't you find it
>a little facile that just
>getting a little from Halle
>Berry (who is the most
>beautiful woman in the world
>but is imo the worst
>actress in the world) he
>is suddenly transformed into a
>peace loving, inclusive man who
>locks away all his racist
>past into old folks homes
>and his attic after he
>has pulled the plug on
>his squeeze's husband?

no i didn't find any of that wrong at all...and i really want to explain why but i can't. I wish i was more adept at verbally explaining things that are in my head, but i'm at a loss...i know if i tried i would sound like an idiot. Maybe if i find another post where someone explained it well, i will cut and paste it...*sigh*..i need to go back to school...

word.......................






>>I talked about it a lot
>>on another thread...
>
>i saw it...thanks :-)
>
>>In re: Monster's Ball, didn't you
>>find it offensive that the
>>story was about a woman
>>whose black husband couldn't take
>>care of her (in his
>>own words, he was a
>>"bad man"), who couldn't take
>>care of herself, who couldn't
>>take care of her son
>>(couldn't even keep him from
>>walking in the street and
>>getting killed) and who has
>>nowhere to turn and no
>>one to turn to except
>>a white man who has
>>been the most racist of
>>human beings throughout his life
>>and his family history?
>>And don't you find it
>>a little facile that just
>>getting a little from Halle
>>Berry (who is the most
>>beautiful woman in the world
>>but is imo the worst
>>actress in the world) he
>>is suddenly transformed into a
>>peace loving, inclusive man who
>>locks away all his racist
>>past into old folks homes
>>and his attic after he
>>has pulled the plug on
>>his squeeze's husband?
>
>no i didn't find any of
>that wrong at all...and i
>really want to explain why
>but i can't. I wish
>i was more adept at
>verbally explaining things that are
>in my head, but i'm
>at a loss...i know if
>i tried i would sound
>like an idiot. Maybe
>if i find another post
>where someone explained it well,
>i will cut and paste
>it...*sigh*..i need to go back
>to school...

*****************
MY SQUEEGE SHRINE
*****************
"I'm bringing back -ing's and -er's, you motherfucking motherfuckers."

"Fuck getting to know her better. I know her well enough to know that I don't want to get to know her better"

more coming soon...


Sat 12-2am WBAI 99.5FM in NY

Pandemonium Wrekordz New York
David Banks coming at you soon
you've been warned.

that you failed to see how white arrogance and privledge is masked in these film.

>*****************
>MY SQUEEGE SHRINE
>*****************
>"I'm bringing back -ing's and -er's,
>you motherfucking motherfuckers."
>
>"Fuck getting to know her better.
>I know her well enough
>to know that I don't
>want to get to know
>her better"
>
>more coming soon...
>
>
>Sat 12-2am WBAI 99.5FM in NY
>
>
>Pandemonium Wrekordz New York
> David Banks coming at you
>soon
>you've been warned.
>
>

that you missed the white arrogance and self servitude present in this film and others .

i feel you avoided janey question as a Black woman did you feel comfortable that the Black males died and that she finds love in the arms of a racist who was part of the execution of her husband?
>*****************
>MY SQUEEGE SHRINE
>*****************
>"I'm bringing back -ing's and -er's,
>you motherfucking motherfuckers."
>
>"Fuck getting to know her better.
>I know her well enough
>to know that I don't
>want to get to know
>her better"
>
>more coming soon...
>
>
>Sat 12-2am WBAI 99.5FM in NY
>
>
>Pandemonium Wrekordz New York
> David Banks coming at you
>soon
>you've been warned.
>
>

>
>



Feel free to check out: MisEducation of The Negro by Carter G Woodson and Toms, Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies and Bucks: An Interpretive History of Blacks in American Film.

Also, check out www.yaaam.org on African folks in the media in general.

>that you missed the white arrogance
>and self servitude present in
>this film and others .
>
>
>i feel you avoided janey question
>as a Black woman did
>you feel comfortable that the
>Black males died and that
>she finds love in the
>arms of a racist who
>was part of the execution
>of her husband?
>>*****************
>>MY SQUEEGE SHRINE
>>*****************
>>"I'm bringing back -ing's and -er's,
>>you motherfucking motherfuckers."
>>
>>"Fuck getting to know her better.
>>I know her well enough
>>to know that I don't
>>want to get to know
>>her better"
>>
>>more coming soon...
>>
>>
>>Sat 12-2am WBAI 99.5FM in NY
>>
>>
>>Pandemonium Wrekordz New York
>> David Banks coming at you
>>soon
>>you've been warned.
>>
>>

>>
>>
>sorry, I meant www.yaaams.org
>
>
>Feel free to check out:
>MisEducation of The Negro by
>Carter G Woodson and Toms,
>Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies and Bucks:
> An Interpretive History of
>Blacks in American Film.
>
>Also, check out www.yaaam.org on
>African folks in the media
>in general.
>
>>that you missed the white arrogance
>>and self servitude present in
>>this film and others .
>>
>>
>>i feel you avoided janey question
>>as a Black woman did
>>you feel comfortable that the
>>Black males died and that
>>she finds love in the
>>arms of a racist who
>>was part of the execution
>>of her husband?
>>>*****************
>>>MY SQUEEGE SHRINE
>>>*****************
>>>"I'm bringing back -ing's and -er's,
>>>you motherfucking motherfuckers."
>>>
>>>"Fuck getting to know her better.
>>>I know her well enough
>>>to know that I don't
>>>want to get to know
>>>her better"
>>>
>>>more coming soon...
>>>
>>>
>>>Sat 12-2am WBAI 99.5FM in NY
>>>
>>>
>>>Pandemonium Wrekordz New York
>>> David Banks coming at you
>>>soon
>>>you've been warned.
>>>
>>>

alright.

I thought it was a good story about a man who found his emotions or conscious. He had lived his whole life without any emotional attachments. He lived the exact way his father had lived. I saw a little trying to gain his fathers approval, just as his son had before he shot himself. I think executing Sean Combs and his son's suicide pushed him into realizing that he had emotions and his own mind.



If you don't like it , too bad !

Did everyone in that movie have a tattoo or was it just me. Was Berry's ass art real?


borrowed sig:
> come on luv, extrapolate.

otherwise that would seem real lame for her to get a fake tatoo on her ass just for the doggy-phuck scene.


Alice: Which road do I take?
Cheshire Cat: Where do you want to go?
Alice: I don't know!
Cat: Then it doesn't matter which road you take.
~Alice in Wonderland

I am so amazed at how divided people are about this movie. Personally, I and pretty much everyone else in the theatre with me felt like we had sat in front of some dude jacking off and got the evidence of such, on the backs of our necks.

Everyone's real quick to analyze the obvious but no one takes closer looks at Hank and his "black coffee" & "chocolate ice cream" and white plastic spoon fetish (can anyone say phallic reference?), which by the way he always throws up the next day, even after his so-called passionate exchange w/ Halle, which is suppose to be a turning point in his soul, apparently the turning point couldn't reach his stomach. How about Halle hawking her wedding ring to buy her new man a big ol' "white cowboy hat"? How about there being no story line that speaks of Leticia's history and community, as clearly as it spoke of Hank's? I mean hey, those are only a few.

Sure you can argue what the director was trying to do in what he provided on screen, but truly, how many of you, faced with a female relative or acquaintence in this scenario, would be so quick to applaud or romanticize these decisions?

peace

Life is a cycle and only you determine whether it be a circle or a spiral.

Interesting, People of color in film are usually divorced from kin, community and a sense of history.


>I am so amazed at how
>divided people are about this
>movie. Personally, I and
>pretty much everyone else in
>the theatre with me felt
>like we had sat in
>front of some dude jacking
>off and got the evidence
>of such, on the backs
>of our necks.
>
>Everyone's real quick to analyze the
>obvious but no one takes
>closer looks at Hank and
>his "black coffee" & "chocolate
>ice cream" and white plastic
>spoon fetish (can anyone say
>phallic reference?), which by the
>way he always throws up
>the next day, even after
>his so-called passionate exchange w/
>Halle, which is suppose to
>be a turning point in
>his soul, apparently the turning
>point couldn't reach his stomach.
> How about Halle hawking
>her wedding ring to buy
>her new man a big
>ol' "white cowboy hat"?
>How about there being no
>story line that speaks of
>Leticia's history and community, as
>clearly as it spoke of
>Hank's? I mean hey,
>those are only a few.
>
>
>Sure you can argue what the
>director was trying to do
>in what he provided on
>screen, but truly, how many
>of you, faced with a
>female relative or acquaintence in
>this scenario, would be so
>quick to applaud or romanticize
>these decisions?
>
>peace
>
>Life is a cycle and only
>you determine whether it be
>a circle or a spiral.
>

I'm confused at the point you're trying to make ochosigrand.


Life is a cycle and only you determine whether it be a circle or a spiral.

>Peace Eaves,
Your bottom comments are in line with my comment and also Yemi Toure's review of the film in The Black World Today.

>Interesting, People of color in film
>are usually divorced from kin,
>community and a sense of
>history.
>
>
>>I am so amazed at how
>>divided people are about this
>>movie. Personally, I and
>>pretty much everyone else in
>>the theatre with me felt
>>like we had sat in
>>front of some dude jacking
>>off and got the evidence
>>of such, on the backs
>>of our necks.
>>

>> How about Halle hawking
>>her wedding ring to buy
>>her new man a big
>>ol' "white cowboy hat"?
>>How about there being no
>>story line that speaks of
>>Leticia's history and community, as
>>clearly as it spoke of
>>Hank's? I mean hey,
>>those are only a few.
>>
>>
>>Sure you can argue what the
>>director was trying to do
>>in what he provided on
>>screen, but truly, how many
>>of you, faced with a
>>female relative or acquaintence in
>>this scenario, would be so
>>quick to applaud or romanticize
>>these decisions?
>>
>>peace
>>
>>Life is a cycle and only
>>you determine whether it be
>>a circle or a spiral.
>>

thanx for the clarify, it's appreciated.
peace

Life is a cycle and only you determine whether it be a circle or a spiral.

"You have to be human to see a human being" -Puffy's character

Keeping that theme in mind when analyzing the relationships in the movie tend to mitigate my negative feelings about how racial issues were handled.
___________________________________________________________

"It's just a song." (c)Goodie Mob

"Once you've won the rat race, will you still be a rat?" (c) Me

"Don't go losing your today hiding your soul in your solitude." (c) Zap Mama

"I'm a vegetarian, not a pussy. If i wanna eat meat, I'll do it. I just don't want to." - guerilla_love on eating soy "meat"