Teaser of the trailer that drops soon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaynOP_Hhmo

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/marvel/captainamericathewintersoldier/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLWsK1ZFunA

This trailer was better than the entire last film. Can't wait.

-------------------
http://blog.melanism.com
http://twitter.com/Melanism
http://seanlovesthis.tumblr.com
http://www.formspring.me/seanathan
http://www.last.fm/user/Melanism
http://www.flickr.com/photos/meldotcom/

.

Can't wait.

Looks good, real good

I thought Captain America was underrated and used quality actors (Tommy Lee Jones and Hayley Atwell) to good effect. Its great to see Robert Redford get some Marvel shine and lets hope some people that have never known Redford's other films now start exploring his back catalogue.

As for the Winter Soldier, that trailer makes me want to see the film. The line about "This isn't freedom this is fear" is a good and very apt line in this political climate when talking about neutralising potential threats.

I hope Scar Jo's character gets fleshed out because so far she's had little to do in the Marvel films and until they do this Marvel won't green light a solo film for her character.

Falcon looks cool.

So next year its Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy and in 2015 Marvel brings us the Avengers sequel and then Ant Man.

Whats coming in 2016?

Glad it looks a lot better than the last one which was pretty boring

(C) Bucky catching the shield.

Good god

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

...solo film. That thing is beautiful.

Amazing.

.

But this is you so...

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

most of us did shit on number one. IT WAS BORING. wasn't turrbl. just boring.

moving on

that shit looks awesome

i want to see that more than Thor

can't wait.

It's the same actor (Sebastian Stan) that played Bucky in the first flick. It's pretty apparent at this point.

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

wtf were you responding to?

Redford is actually the bad guy. The Winter Soldier is a top secret SHIELD project known only to a select few, not even Fury.

Fury poses too much of a threat to the way Redford wants to run things so he uses Crossbones and Winter Soldier to take Fury and Cap out. They prob wanna axe Fury for allowing The Avengers to steal the show. SHIELD is Big Brother and they don't want ordinary people believing theres a higher power than the one they have.

>Redford is actually the bad guy.

Holy shit @ Falcon

Can I get my ticket NOW?! LOLOL!

but damn did it get me hype!

Fury's other eye.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SlILk2WMTI

-------------------
http://blog.melanism.com
http://twitter.com/Melanism
http://seanlovesthis.tumblr.com
http://www.formspring.me/seanathan
http://www.last.fm/user/Melanism
http://www.flickr.com/photos/meldotcom/

And if Days of Future Past is actually as good as it seems to be shaping up to be?

This movie does look and sound like it could give The Avengers a run for it's money of best MCU movie so far.

Early Buzz: ‘Captain America: The Winter Soldier’ May Be Marvel’s Best Yet (link)

http://www.slashfilm.com/early-buzz-captain-america-the-winter-soldier/

Because the hype coming out is making me think it's going to be amazing.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=51420

JOSS WHEDON DIRECTED "CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER SOLDIER" POST-CREDITS SCENE
Posted: 23 hours ago

Marvel Studios has a tradition of rewarding those who stick around to the very end of its movies, and many of the post-credits scenes serve as a lead-in or introduction to a future installment in the Marvel Cinematic Universe with special guest-directors. It looks like the upcoming "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" is no different, as Collider reports that "Avengers: Age of Ultron" director Joss Whedon stepped in to direct one of the film's post-credits scenes.

"The Russos directed one of and Joss Whedon directed the other," Marvel Studios head Kevin Feige told Collider. "I think you can figure out which."

This isn't the first time Whedon has helmed a post-credits scene -- he previously directed one for "Thor," which featured Nick Fury showing Erik Selvig the Tesseract as a lead-in to "The Avengers." It seems safe to assume that "The Winter Soldier's" post-credits scene will give some kind of nod to "Age of Ultron," but the content is anyone's guess. Considering the tradition of recent post-credits scenes -- such as "Guardians of the Galaxy" director James Gunn's "Thor: The Dark World" scene involving Benicio Del Toro's Collector -- it seems likely that more than one familiar face might show up. Either way, it's just one more reason to get excited for "The Winter Soldier" debut on April 4.

Directed by Joe and Anthony Russo, "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" stars Chris Evans, Scarlett Johansson, Sebastian Stan, Samuel L. Jackson, Robert Redford, Frank Grillo, Georges St-Pierre, Cobie Smulders and Maximiliano Hernandez.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCEvnGaj7yo

Kinda blows, cause I'm all kinds of excited for The Falcon.

I'm starting wonder about Marvel and their black characters...

^^Fixed it

Waste of a dope character despite that being on the best superhero movies ever.

That movie was about the Parr family, and them learning to draw strength from each other and stick together through Mr. Incredible's mid-life crisis.

I would expect Frozone to go more run second time around.

Honestly, one of the nitpicks of the first movie, when there was an alien invasion going on, and the only superhero not there was War Machine... And it appears that this time it'll happen again. Such a shame.

He looks great in Cap 2 promos so far, why not include him?

http://www.movieweb.com/movie/captain-america-the-winter-soldier/first-10-minutes

I need every frame to be fresh, shiny and new.

n/m

Let me be clear, I don't think Guardians of the Galaxy is gonna top this shit.

A lot of people are saying it's better than The Avengers and no it's not. Avengers is better by just a hair.

But this tells a better story than Avengers. It's an espionage/spy film first, superhero movie second.

A lot of shit happens in this film that makes me wonder how in the fuck are they gonna continue,*mild spoiler, not even but since y'all consider Cap eating a pizza a spolier* but there's a major scene during the credits that sets up Avengers 2 in a HUGE way. And yes stick around afterwards for one last moment in the THIS story.

BTW the fights scenes are violent as shit. Cap was punishing the shit outta people.

Interesting. I'm in regardless

Ranking IMO:

The Winter Soldier

IM1

IM3

Thor

The First Avenger

The Incredible Hulk

The Dark World

IM2

The Winter Solider
Avengers
Iron Man
Thor
The First Avenger
The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 3
The Dark World
Iron Man 2

Can't really decide between Hulk and IM3, both have strong parts and both have incredibly weak parts.

The rest of list stays the same.

Seriously though, Avengers and Winter Soldier are neck to neck.

I really liked "The Winter Soldier", and wonder how they can possibly keep this momentum going. There are many things in this movie that are better executed than in the Avengers. Avengers is still my overall favorite. After seeing the latest Captain flick, I found myself wondering if DC should actually announce a new date for Superman vs. Batman. If Cap 3, is as good as Cap 2, the Supes/Batman movie is going to be in trouble. DC can not thrive on brand recognition alone. Marvel has earned the right to be this ambitious. I did enjoy "Man of Steel", but it was not enough for DC to be moving this fast.

My order of favorite stand-alone Marvel movies.

The Winter Soldier

IM1

IM3

The Dark World

Thor

The First Avenger

The Incredible Hulk

IM2

I'd probably go:

Iron Man
Captain America
Captain 2

Iron Man 3

Thor
Iron Man 2
Thor 2

Marvel hasn't delivered a clunker yet but I don't think any of their movies have matched Spider-Man 2 or X2.

AVENGERS
WINTER SOLDIER
CAPTAIN AMERICA
IRON MAN
THOR 2
IRON MAN 3
THOR
INCRED. HULK
AGENT CARTER
IRON MAN 2
ALL HAIL THE KING
ITEM 47
the new opening MARVEL logo
the old opening MARVEL logo
chicken pox
AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D.

Winter Solider
First Avenger
Iron Man 1
The Dark World
Iron Man 3
Incredible Hulk
Thor
Iron Man 2


Avengers still bossed that shit. The tension between the heroes and their coming together to get it done beats the best of any of these.

Winter Soldier
Iron Man 3
Iron Man
Thor 2
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man 2
The Incredible Hulk

Avengers
Winter Soldier
Iron Man
Iron Man 3
Captain America
Thor 2
Thor
Iron Man 2
The Incredible Hulk

It works on all levels, standalone, as a sequel and as part of the MCU. As for the latter, there are a bunch of references to the rest of the MCU but more so events that will set up the rest of the MCU from here on out. Apart from Winter Soldier's identity there are two other big twists which I didn't find too surprising but they're still great.

The action sequences are IMO the best in the MCU so far.

And yes @ the mid credits scene.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Never a big fan of 3D, always a big fan of IMAX for the sound.

Wasn't necessary but didn't hurt
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

If not is the IMAX version even worth it?

DOn't know if it's worth it or not, but it was awesome in 2D.

My overall global note for Marvel is that they have to be very careful moving forward because they are pretty much making everyone invincible and giving people tools to escape out of any jam. At least in James Bond they introduce whatever gadget will save the day but here people are just pulling out the magical "Cut a hole to freedom" device. Captain American can survive falls from great heights. Even mere mortals can have a helicarrier crash into a building they're on and make it out with some burns.

As for the movie, I was surprised with how little story there was and I liked most of the action although most of it was cutty and the final battle was pretty cliched and overall this film was another example of what I call: Brute Force Cinema. There was no real plan of attack; it was mostly just people storming the castle.

Still, it was more brutal than expected, had a lot of laughs, and ala The Avengers, the movie kept me entertained enough to overlook most gaps in logic.

I'd definitely recommend it but I would say that you shouldn't go in expecting one of the best superhero movies ever.

The contracts of Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan may hint at a major vulnerability. Evans is signed on until Avengers 3 and Stan is signed on for a total of 9 (far past Avengers 3)....if you know the Winter Soldier storyline, Cap dies and Bucky takes up the mantle. My guess is that Avengers 3 will be that moment...Thanos kills Cap (obviously a big moment but also shows to the audience just how powerful Thanos is) and Bucky steps in. The second cut-scene in Winter Soldier also leads me to believe Marvel is building towards that.

They've honed it down to a science at this point.

BTW, **** and the mildest hint of a spoiler is to follow **** there is a moment in Man of Steel a lot of people hated, because the filmmakers made the wrong choice. Here, Cap has a similar moment, and they make the right choice. I was fucking overjoyed.

>BTW, **** and the mildest hint of a spoiler is to follow ****
>there is a moment in Man of Steel a lot of people hated,
>because the filmmakers made the wrong choice. Here, Cap has a
>similar moment, and they make the right choice. I was fucking
>overjoyed.

This sort of thing is exactly why I loved the movie. It really felt like how Captain America should feel.

When the little boy is thrown into the water, and Cap is ready to stop to rescue the kid, and the kid yells out, "Don't worry, I can swim!"

Stuff like that, that earnest to the point of corny tone, is, like, borderline impossible to strike perfectly in the cinematic medium. This movie wasn't as "aw shucks" as the first one, but it still has some wonderful moments close to that, such as the aforementioned spoiler scene, and the scene where Cap is spied at the museum and agrees not to tell anyone.

>BTW, **** and the mildest hint of a spoiler is to follow ****
>there is a moment in Man of Steel a lot of people hated,
>because the filmmakers made the wrong choice. Here, Cap has a
>similar moment, and they make the right choice. I was fucking
>overjoyed.


No, the moment in Man of Steel happened because the aim of the filmmakers was to make a new Superman origin story. Thus, any thoughts about how "but Superman wouldn't do that!!!!!!" were kinda-sorta wrong, since they were wiping the previous slate(s) clean, which included any and all rules about what Superman would and could not do.

Also, this is the second Captain America movie. Had he faced a similar choice in The First Avenger, then maybe, and I emphasize *maybe*, there would be an appropriate comparison to be made.

I mean, come on.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

And, in my opinion, it is not true to the character of Superman.

Now, if Man of Steel was about "Kent Clark" who comes from the planet "Cryptite" and he becomes the powerful hero "SteelMan" who does kill people, I'd have no problem with it.

Obviously there's a difference in these characters' histories with the person they "need" to kill in their respective movies. But, just as I was very disappointed in the MoS choice, I would've been just as (if not more) disappointed had Cap gone that direction.

There are certain character traits in beloved comic characters that are just ingrained into their system. If Wolverine suddenly said, "Cigars? Not for me. Disgusting habit.", folks would fucking rebel. Doesn't really matter if that's the direction they want the character to go in in a new story or not.

Same way I rebelled when The Great Gatsby didn't seem to really get Gatsby. I don't really care if they're telling a "new version." The old one didn't really need fixing, IMO.

feel comfortable. It didn't play on the list of character signposts in your mind that the new story was supposed to check off, even though you were asked to come in with a relatively-clean slate. So, in your mind, they* erred in judgment from jump. Got it.

Good thing the Internet wasn't around when Frank Miller came with The Dark Knight. Because all of those who had the beloved Adam West Batman and all of his beloved ingrained character traits would have been upset, even though it was a new version of the Batman story.

*we all know who we're referring to here.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

I'd be the first one making the argument you're making if the source material was something I didn't give a shit about (see: NOAH). But since I do, I can't remove myself from it. Just doesn't sit well with me personally, and for people who felt that way about MoS, it's impossible to not think about that scene when the similar set-up transpires in Cap 2.

(I also think there's another argument to be made that the killing in MoS would've worked for me if I felt they'd emotionally earned it through the development of the character of Clark in the film. I felt it wasn't emotionally earned. In the Frank Miller Batman, all that dark shit feels earned. That's probably the "remove all biases" argument, but I might as well keep it 100% and not try to deny that "Superman doesn't kill" hasn't been ingrained in me since birth.)

>I also think there's another argument to be made that the
>killing in MoS would've worked for me if I felt they'd
>emotionally earned it through the development of the character
>of Clark in the film. I felt it wasn't emotionally earned.

Personally, I think, in a vacuum, the MoS moment itself was better (I found the Friendship Shines Through moment a little hokey) but Cap 2 built up to that moment better (even if, oddly enough, The Winter Soldier was the B-story in a film called The Winter Soldier) whereas the Man of Steel was all over the place and the final moment elicited more of a "Why the hell didn't he do that sooner?" rather than a "I feel so bad he had to do that."

The MoS scene needed to be something built to but instead it was something they did because their original ending (with Zod on the ship) felt lame.

>Personally, I think, in a vacuum, the MoS moment itself was
>better (I found the Friendship Shines Through moment a little
>hokey) but Cap 2 built up to that moment better (even if,
>oddly enough, The Winter Soldier was the B-story in a film
>called The Winter Soldier) whereas the Man of Steel was all
>over the place and the final moment elicited more of a "Why
>the hell didn't he do that sooner?" rather than a "I feel so
>bad he had to do that."
>
>The MoS scene needed to be something built to but instead it
>was something they did because their original ending (with Zod
>on the ship) felt lame.


Oh and yes I agree with all that

But yes it felt like the nick fury story was center stage while the winter soldier story line was secondary
I'm not sure I have a problem with that
But I guess maybe they needed to market it this way for the draw

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

it was a dumb ass point when Longo bought it up the first time and still is now. Cap didn't have to kill. they played it right because of the type of fight they were in. Sups better have killed that POS or I would've been upset leaving the theater

i won't address the nonsense Soul Honky brings up about MoS, because it makes not one iota of sense to me

which is the zone most villains that audiences empathize with operate in.

He was just straight megalomaniacal and tyrannical. Audiences don't want to attach themselves to that shit. Kill him now.

>They've honed it down to a science at this point.
>
>BTW, **** and the mildest hint of a spoiler is to follow ****
>there is a moment in Man of Steel a lot of people hated,
>because the filmmakers made the wrong choice. Here, Cap has a
>similar moment, and they make the right choice. I was fucking
>overjoyed.

Because he definitely took out a few renegade SHIELD soldiers in Avengers.

captain America is a "guns as a last resort" dude, and for two films has just been shooting mother fuckers indiscriminately (including giving the order to kill SHIELD agents in this film), but since he doesn't kill Bucky, it's cool.... unlike that dick Superman, who killed that superpowered alien who was trying to kill all human life. hahahahaha

I swear, Snyder hate runs strong.

...in The First Avenger and Avengers.

People forget he's a soldier.

... and the final decision. The decision, when confronted with someone personally tied to you, who will continue to kill if you don't kill them first, to either murder that person and end the bloodshed... or be killed yourself.

Cap killing Bucky would've felt wrong wrong wrong. The same way that Superman snapping Zod's neck felt, to me, personally.

but I saw the reason for not killing bucky was the hope that it would bring his friend back from the brink. supes and zod had no preexisting relationship, other than this was the guy who killed his father and ready to destroy the world... i'm just not really seeing the comparison.

A superhero narrative that deals directly with the potential decision to kill someone that they absolutely don't want to kill. Obviously their pasts are different, but the set-up is the same: what do you do when faced with NEEDING to kill someone that you don't want to?

In Man of Steel, they wrote themselves into that death scene needlessly. They had been flying around causing all types of destruction, but then they had Superman happen to headlock Zod with an innocent and beautiful family in front of them. They wrote themselves into the "kill" scenario, in an unearned fashion IMO.

In Cap 2, their showdown is similarly mano y mano, but instead of giving Cap a cute family nearby to need to protect by breaking his oath in a quick and emotionally unearned fashion, we see what happens when it unfolds alone, and we see Cap resolutely stand by his decision to not kill this man, even at the risk of others.

There are obviously individual differences, relationships, powers, etc. But both times, we get a hero directly confronted with the undesirable need to kill the villain. And Cap would rather die. Superman, who obviously also wanted Zod to live (think how much about his past and his family he could've learned from dude!), is instead given a cute family as justification, along with a megalomaniac line or two from Zod, insisting he'll never stop killing people. I refuse to believe there isn't a writer who can't find a way for Supes to get out of that situation without killing Zod.

DC just wants to differentiate from Marvel and take their heroes in a grittier direction. Which is fine, given the execution (the Nolan Batmans showed this can work). The execution (no pun intended) just didn't feel right. To me. And the end of Cap 2 immediately reminded me of my disappointment at the MoS ending.

>I refuse to believe
>there isn't a writer who can't find a way for Supes to get out
>of that situation without killing Zod.

I think you're ignoring the fact that it was a concious choice to go in that direction. It wasn't done because they had no other options and were left in a panic or something. They deliberately chose that direction because grandpappy's boyscout iteration of Superman is honestly not going to cut it anymore. Those same writers could have easily taken a different path and simply chose not to.

This notion that "Superman shouldn't/doesn't kill!" is antiquated. The "pretty family" being in harms way showed a man who was more concerned with protecting innocent people who were about to be murdered than saving the life of the murderer. These weren't people who might die incidentally as collateral damage in a fight he had no experience to draw from in order to keep people safe, it was a family about to be intentionally murdered, and Superman made the right call.

TWS is so far removed from this scenario it really shouldn't even be mentioned.

Bucky wasn't hellbent on destroying the world or murdering innocent people. He was a brainwashed assasin doing essentially the same kind of work Cap was, albeit for a different side and with less honor. Bucky tried to kill his targets, but his targets weren't innocent people. They were specific, direct enemies of the people who brainwashed him.

Further, Bucky was hurt and presented no imminent danger to anyone at the time Cap saved him. Cap wasn't faced with anything approaching the same choice Kal-El was, and if you put that same pretty family in front of Bucky with Bucky's finger halfway through a trigger pull, Steve just might make the same call.

Bucky and Steve had a unique bond and past history together and Bucky was an innocent pawn in a game he barely knew he was playing, was no immediate danger to anyone, and Bucky had shown glimpes of recognition that Steve picked up on. This is a pretty far cry from Kal-El's predicament.

And I know I'm in no way the only one who immediately thought of the Zod killing. Hence why I'm trying to talk my way through why it may have brought it to mind, whether it's more deeply steeped in my appreciation of this film's choices, my deep disappointment in MoS's choices, the parallel important decision to be made by both heroes regardless of character (kill or nah?), or some combination of all of these things.

Folks that dug the choice in MoS: I respect that. I personally felt it was unearned and it felt out of character, as if the writers needlessly wrote themselves into that corner with the intention of "going dark." But I see why they did it for logistical and tone reasons going forward and I have no beef with folks who dig the MoS ending.

Folks that didn't dig the choice in MoS: probably a lot of you left Cap 2 thinking the same way I did. Which is also respectable, and I personally understand.

Some people prefer Indian food to Chinese food. Some dig both equally. Some don't dig either. All these preferences are cool.

I think it makes perfect sense for the moment in TWS to immediately remind people of the MOS moment, but I also think that objective examination of the two situations puts any real comparisons to rest. I misspoke when I said it shouldn’t even be mentioned, because I do understand why the initial reaction comes about.

For what it’s worth, I’m not trying to convert your perspective or get a Marvel CU/DC CU war going or anything. In general I defend MOS because I feel it’s been unfairly maligned for taking some bold decisions, but it’s not like I’m unable to accept someone else’s preference of Indian food because I like cheeseburgers, so to speak. It’s all good. I just dig conversation on what I perceive to be the finer points of these things.

>. They
>deliberately chose that direction because grandpappy's
>boyscout iteration of Superman is honestly not going to cut it
>anymore. Those same writers could have easily taken a
>different path and simply chose not to.
>
>This notion that "Superman shouldn't/doesn't kill!" is
>antiquated.

DC/WB seemed to ignore the core of the character throughout the entire film. Brooding Clark. The color scheme. And, to cap it off, the final scene with Zod. it just felt like they tried to apply a Dark Knight template to Superman. Just didn't work for me. Two different characters.

Everything mentioned above, Cap as antiquated Boy Scout, was a huge argument against the character and Marvel chose to run with what makes Cap, Cap. He's gonna be that boys scout, look out for innocents and what not. But don't forget he is a SUPER soldier and can take out a gang of folks. Yes, he believes in America, but the idea of it (Freedom, etc) more than the actual government and following whatever they do.

Sidenote: along this point, they copped out by making all the bad elements Hydra instead of something that is a by product of the system.

This movie felt like a Cap movie. He's kicking ass and staying true to his moral center. Man of Steel did not feel like Superman. The Zod incident was just the final straw.

For me.

They re-imagined him.

The comics do this all the time.

To me, they put a more realistic spin on the character. I think the notion of Clark being more brooding and introspective isn’t trying to turn him into Batman, I think it’s a reasonable take on how someone would be in those shoes. They captured the loneliness someone like that would realistically feel.

Further, Marvel was able to play Cap as the antiquated boy scout for two reasons:

1. They actually set him in his golly-gee-whiz wartime era, and the fact that he’s old-fashioned is because he’s essentially relic from that time, not merely a throwback. That makes it believable and engaging, and frankly wouldn’t work if they introduced him in a modern setting. By giving us his back story and showcasing him as the proverbial fish out of water and acknowledging how antiquated his entire persona is, they pull us in.

2. We don’t have 5 previous films of that version of Cap in the last 40 years or so. We also don’t have three tv series worth of material. **3 is if you count the Superboy series. That said, I’m no advocate for changing shit just to change it. I think they stayed true to the character in that they presented a viable interpretation of him. Further, this was an origin story and I was elated to see a flawed hero. I expect future films to show him growing into someone who more closely resembles the Supes we all know and love, but to expect that guy to show his face in the origin story doesn’t make sense to me.

Word on BvS is that Batman will basically be schooling Supes on the hero game, as he’s said to be pissed about the collateral damage done in the MOS. In terms of Zod, they wrote him into a situation where that choice makes both logical and moral sense. People express shock at Superman killing someone as though there was no context to that action. This wasn’t Rorshach on some judge/jury/execution shit. He made a choice that hurt him a great deal in the process, and it’s puzzling to me that people are more beholden to some cookie cutter notion of who this guy is that they can’t appreciate the fact that we saw Superman make an incredibly difficult choice that most likely scarred him for life.

There’s a real weight to that choice that will most likely show itself in future films, because he’ll be trying to avoid repeating past mistakes. I understand the reaction to seeing a different version of Supes, but it seems to me that people have ignored quite a bit of context in the process.

So while I get that your cup of tea is your cup of tea and what isn’t simply isn’t, I get the impression that most people were sort of closed to a different interpretation to begin with, and didn’t really give it a chance. 20 years from now I’d love to see a back-to-basics take on Superman, because the Donner film (film(s), depending on how you view 2, I suppose) is near and dear. I’m personally excited to get this take though.

i can see what you're saying. i would prefer the core character of the boy scout superman to find a way to shine through. a gritty, no holds barred superman just isn't what i'm looking for.

part of me hopes that the sequel takes the route that Arrow took, and let the trauma of killing zod haunt clark and keep him from abusing his powers again. that could keep the essence of the character while giving gravity to his loneliness and mission in the reality rooted dc way.

i liked man of steel well enough, but i've gotta believe there's a way to do a true superman movie that's not corny while still holding true to who he is.

that's why i enjoyed cap 2 as much as i did. captain america is inherently silly to me, but they found a way to maintain his sensibilities in a way that makes sense in live action.

.

C'mon Frank. You're trying to make it a black and white decision when both have different shades of gray that need to be considered.

It was pretty fuckin dope.

Action in it was much better than in the first one, i felt like it was the first film that really did Cap justice, in terms of how he can fight and who he is.

Winter Soldier was badass.

ScarJo was hot as shit.

Even Nick Fury did his thing, his car chase scene was dope.

Easily the best Marvel flick since IM1. Definitely looking forward to the sequel.

All the action sequences were fantastic. Really great choreography. It moved along and a lot of Black Widow who is always good to look at.

One of the best Marvel flicks so far.

And I think it was definitely the best as far as serving as a good standalone movie, and as a stepping stone to the next chapter in the Marvel Universe.

this one was a lotta fun, some excellent action & fight scenes, much more Cap kicking tail scenes so it was a blast in that regard....i thoroughly enjoyed myself...*mild spoilers* Caps opening Boat fights were cool and nicely choreographed, Fury's car chase scene was tense and exciting as hell, highway ambush was cool, Falcons flight scenes were sweeeet.....i was an exciting thrill ride no doubt! worth it, and yup, Marvels put another solid flick out there ya'll...
Chris Evens is PERFECTLY cast as Cap. he really does a fantastic job of making Steve Rogers very believable...

that said. i personally liked the first Cap flick better. i just liked the 'texture' & 'heart' of the first one so much. I dug the historical elements that they wove into the fantastical mythology. the first one stands up extremely well on reviewings too. it actually may even get BETTER on repeat viewings.


but yeah...Marvel is doing their thing. great time for a silver age comic fan to be alive!

This dick behind me was talking through the whole thing up to the point where Cap gets arrested, which is when I turned around and asked him to stop.

What I did see was excellent.

i'm not so sure about all this "better than the Avengers talk" but it basically was almost Avengers Lite minus some of the heavy-hitters. and it was certainly better than the first Cap movie, but that's no disrespect to the first film which was highly slept on imo. this phase of the movies post-Avengers can just jump right into the world and keep it moving because the story has already been established in the first few movies.

- Cap was putting his full abilities on display. loved that they took his fighting skills up a notch. the opening assault on the ship and his fight with Batroc was pretty dope as was the scene in the elevator. i'm still amazed at how Marvel took this character who was mildly popular at best and made him into arguably the best character in all of the MCU (dare i say Marvel period).

- Nick Fury was great and got a lot more chance to show of just how much of a ultimate super-spy he can be. i honestly think they could do a whole Nick Fury movie at this point.

- Black Widow was very well done. definitely got to see more depth from her character which is a good thing. her fighting skills and use of her gadgets were also on great display. she also deserves her own movie (maybe featuring Hawkeye?).

- i was very excited to see Falcon in action and i was not disappointed. here's hoping we see him again. maybe they can get him a more advanced suit and some fighting lessons from Cap for his next installment. he was kinda getting his butt kicked when he wasn't flying. still all good though, it's his first time out and that's actually kinda realistic. LOL.

- Redford as Pierce was just excellent casting. wasn't sure how he would turn out since it was obvious that he would be the villain. he was so cold and smooth with his though that he almost had me rooting for him.

can't wait to see what's next.

His run on Cap was the best of Marvel while he was doing it.

he's always been THAT NIGGA but his stories don't show it at times
but Byrne did everything Bru did almost 2o years prior

brubaker damn sure set the table and prepped all the food for the great meal that is TWS though

Awesome

Besides being better then the first (which I think is underrated) what makes Winter's Soldier such an accomplishment is how they threw in political thriller elements. If someone said they were going to make a movie thats half Avengers, Half Bourne Identity, id laugh at how bad that idea is. It proves that the current superhero movie paradigm is malleable, which is a good thing since it was already showing signs of fatigue.

Other points: it's really underestimated at how well the movies reference each other...it's getting to the point that sitting down and watching these things are like catching up with old friends.

Marvels run might not give us all GREAT films, but they will give us consistently good ones which is a triumph in the Hollywood system. Hopefully whoever are the showrunners on the Star Wars side at Disney are taking notes

there's A LOT of boring talking heads in this movie. and the middle of the movie really suffers because of it.

it gets off to a perfect start but then skids to a halt when Redford comes on screen because apparently his only role in this thing, besides creeping everyone out with his Kenny Rogers facelift, is to give soliloquies of clunky exposition that no one gives a fuck about.

this is yet another movie that's 30-45 minutes too long. why do we need all these fucking details about shit we don't care about? there's a fairly easy story to tell here, but they get bogged down in useless minutia.

despite an over-reliance on shaky-cam and Bay-style editing, most of the action scenes are great. the one featuring Nick Fury is one of the best Marvel set pieces ever. the banter between Cap and Black Widow is perfect. Anthony Mackie is immediately likeable in his role.

i just wish they would've trimmed the fat and delivered a tighter movie.

Are you getting paid for all this?

>there's A LOT of boring talking heads in this movie. and the
>middle of the movie really suffers because of it.
>
>it gets off to a perfect start but then skids to a halt when
>Redford comes on screen because apparently his only role in
>this thing, besides creeping everyone out with his Kenny
>Rogers facelift, is to give soliloquies of clunky exposition
>that no one gives a fuck about.
>
>this is yet another movie that's 30-45 minutes too long. why
>do we need all these fucking details about shit we don't care
>about? there's a fairly easy story to tell here, but they get
>bogged down in useless minutia.
>
>despite an over-reliance on shaky-cam and Bay-style editing,
>most of the action scenes are great. the one featuring Nick
>Fury is one of the best Marvel set pieces ever. the banter
>between Cap and Black Widow is perfect. Anthony Mackie is
>immediately likeable in his role.
>
>i just wish they would've trimmed the fat and delivered a
>tighter movie.

.

The middle of the movie DOES have a lot of exposition. I thought they played it well, and it certainly never began to bore me, but this movie does have plenty of exposition and I don't think the opinion that it bogs down the movie is evidence of anything resembling blind hatred. I know multiple people who love the movie but admit that the exposition-heavy stretch is the low mark.

The only blind hate part is the Redford face jab, but then again, I can't watch Cougar Town because of Courtney Cox's weird face, so I'm no better.

i didn't shit on the movie. i said it had good action scenes and was too long.

y'all really butt hurt over that?

grow the fuck up. it's not a binary world of "perfect or shit". let's be adult enough to allow for levels of grey.

what was wrong with what I said about the movie, man? I understand Team Redford got their feelings hurt over a dumb throwaway comment about his personal appearance. Fine. Looking past that, he wasn't great in the movie, mostly because the script didn't give him much to work with, and his role as the unexpected bad guy was pretty heavily telegraphed from the beginning (even more so than Jeff Bridges character in IM1).

so what else are you taking such offense with? the rest is just personal opinion. if you disagree, let's discuss it. that's how film critique outside of fanboy-ism works.

I enjoyed the movie. It just was far from perfect. And it's bizarre to me that, to other people, that translates to "hated it."

>what was wrong with what I said about the movie, man? I
>understand Team Redford got their feelings hurt over a dumb
>throwaway comment about his personal appearance. Fine.
>Looking past that, he wasn't great in the movie, mostly
>because the script didn't give him much to work with, and his
>role as the unexpected bad guy was pretty heavily telegraphed
>from the beginning (even more so than Jeff Bridges character
>in IM1).
>
>so what else are you taking such offense with? the rest is
>just personal opinion. if you disagree, let's discuss it.
>that's how film critique outside of fanboy-ism works.
>
>I enjoyed the movie. It just was far from perfect. And it's
>bizarre to me that, to other people, that translates to "hated
>it."

folks have a tendency to run in here, seek out anyone who has an opinion that's not a 100% 5-star rave and call them an idiot.

all the negative comments in my initial post were about the saggy middle portion of the movie and unnecessary exposition. the rest was pretty much a glowing review (i liked the movie). but, like most times, y'all went ham over nothing.

"there's A LOT of boring talking heads in this movie. and the middle of the movie really suffers because of it.

it gets off to a perfect start but then skids to a halt when Redford comes on screen because apparently his only role in this thing, besides creeping everyone out with his Kenny Rogers facelift, is to give soliloquies of clunky exposition that no one gives a fuck about.

this is yet another movie that's 30-45 minutes too long. why do we need all these fucking details about shit we don't care about? there's a fairly easy story to tell here, but they get bogged down in useless minutia.

despite an over-reliance on shaky-cam and Bay-style editing, most of the action scenes are great. the one featuring Nick Fury is one of the best Marvel set pieces ever. the banter between Cap and Black Widow is perfect. Anthony Mackie is immediately likeable in his role.

i just wish they would've trimmed the fat and delivered a tighter movie."

let me know what part of that is a negative comment about something other than overly long exposition making the movie drag.

I didnt even think the exposition was bad. It was interesting, and done better than Nolan when he does it.

redford is renowned in the industry for being one of the few actors who actually has decided to age gracefully and not fuck with his face.

dude w/ that facelift comment doesn't know wtf he's talking about.

His face is 100% but I can't sit here and act like he looks like joe blow with that picket fence in his mouth. That's my dude and all, but it is what it is.

>His face is 100% but I can't sit here and act like he looks
>like joe blow with that picket fence in his mouth. That's my
>dude and all, but it is what it is.


picket fence? SHIT, Redford rocks white house siding in his mouth LMAO

i'm not mad because yes, he hasn't snipped or tucked a damn thing on his face....

>His face is 100% but I can't sit here and act like he looks
>like joe blow with that picket fence in his mouth. That's my
>dude and all, but it is what it is.

http://i.imgur.com/vhREltU.jpg

>http://i.imgur.com/vhREltU.jpg

you honestly can't look at those 2 pictures and see the difference?

redford looks every minute of his 77 years, but he's still got a rugged handsomeness. yeah, his skin is wrinkled and leathery but it still looks natural and healthy. he still looks like robert redford, just older.

kenny's face on the other hand has been pulled and stretched to the point that its features look completely different than they did when he was a younger man. he looks like a completely different person, like he swapped heads with an extraterrestrial from the star system latexia.

redford's got a horrible dye job, and he wears veneers on his teeth like a ton of other celebs do, but he hasn't touched his face.

is the worst directorial trend of the past decade. however, they did pull it together after the opening scenes to keep the choreography decipherable, while throwing in wider shots.

>the one featuring Nick
>Fury is one of the best Marvel set pieces ever.

agree.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1725350/captain-america-the-winter-soldier-agents-of-shield.jhtml

It seems obvious to me that Stark will recreate SHIELD, a group that his father created. Which would explain why Maria Hill was in Stark HR in the end of CA:WS.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2014/04/06/captain-america-agents-of-shield-tv-series/7313369/?linkId=7899022

Film reveal retools TV's 'Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'

How will 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' affect the Marvel universe? Find out Tuesday on 'Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.' (8 ET/PT). ABC
Brian Truitt, USA TODAY 1:36 p.m. EDT April 6, 2014
The evil organization Hydra becomes a massive new threat as the show mixes things up before its season finale.
XXX AGENTS-OF-S.H.I.E.L.D.-gregg-oswalt-4500-

(Photo: Justin Lubin, ABC)
SHARE 12631 CONNECT 161 TWEET 24 COMMENTEMAILMORE

S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Phil Coulson is about to have a very bad day.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier, released in theaters over the weekend, reveals that the secret government agency has been infiltrated to its core by sleeper agents of Hydra, an evil organization bent on world domination.

And in a bit of movie-to-TV synergy, the film's events will prompt a major retooling of ABC's Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. for its first season's final six new episodes, beginning Tuesday (8 ET/PT).

"It's an extremely unique experience that doesn't exist anywhere else out there in the entertainment business," says Jeph Loeb, executive producer and head of Marvel TV.

The show's group of agents led by Coulson (Clark Gregg), introduced in the Marvel movies, are faced with not only trust issues among themselves but a civil war within the entire S.H.I.E.L.D. organization, where no one knows who's actually a Hydra operative.

Upcoming episodes feature at least one major betrayal, and what's left of Coulson's team is forced to deal on their own with the dismantling of their whole world as well as the new Hydra threat.

"Survival is a huge part of it," says executive producer Maurissa Tancharoen. "There is no more tapping into big S.H.I.E.L.D. through the holo-comm. The guns you have on the plane are the guns you have. They're basically left with the bare minimum."
Coulson team SHIELD

Phil Coulson (center, Clark Gregg) leads his team on a new mission — survival — in ABC's "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D."(Photo: Justin Lubin, ABC)

Coulson's team — agents May (Ming-Na Wen), Ward (Brett Dalton), Fitz (Iain De Caestecker), Simmons (Elizabeth Henstridge) and Skye (Chloe Bennet) — were established as new characters in Marvel lore finding their identity in "the most massive organization ever created by man," adds executive producer Jed Whedon. "Now they really are a ragtag bunch scraping things together."

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. has had bigger problems than Hydra its first season. Viewership has been disappointing — it premiered in September with an impressive 12 million viewers, but ranked behind The Voice and NCIS with 5.71 million last week, though it is expected to return next fall.

And the hardcore fanboy contingent has decried its lack of characters from the comics, though that will be addressed with the Hydra element, which the show couldn't mention until now in order to avoid spoiling Winter Soldier, Whedon says. Instead, the series spent time building external threats — the big bad mystery man the Clairvoyant, the mad scientists of Centipede, the cyborg operative Deathlok (J. August Richards) — for the heroes to deal with that would then connect back to Hydra later.

"Hopefully people who've had mixed feelings about the show will now understand it was all part of a big plan," Tancharoen says.

Coulson himself has been struggling with how and why he was brought back from the dead after being "killed" in The Avengers, and he's thought something was rotten in S.H.I.E.L.D. for a while, Gregg says.

Much of the show is "about a company man who finds out that everything he's dedicated his life to is not what he thought it was. To have everything dissolve around him to the point that S.H.I.E.L.D. itself is in smoking ruins (and have) that crisis of faith is such an amazing thing to explore," he says.
Coulson SHIELD

Agent Coulson (Clark Gregg) has had a rough season, from dealing with the ramifications of his resurrection to the new threat of Hydra.(Photo: Kelsey McNeal, ABC)

Coulson and his team are forced to deal with more secrets coming to the fore plus some new characters: Patton Oswalt guest-stars as S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Eric Koenig, Adrian Pasdar is Col. Glenn Talbot and Amy Acker plays a cello-playing love interest for Coulson mentioned in passing in The Avengers.

The main cast was left mostly speechless after they learned of the series' turn following the movie — "The girls were a bit shocked, but Iain was like, 'Yeah, that's really cool,' " Tancharoen says — yet Gregg believes everybody's been energized by the influx of treason, drama and continued surprises leading to the season finale.

"I'm a little old for it, but I'm the one texting, 'OMG! OMG! Oh no, you traitor!' It's kind of hilarious," he says. "People are racing to their car to read the new scripts and find out what new Hydra betrayal is going to be revealed."

There was a lot go foreshadowing which I assumed had to do with the movie
and yep
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>Teaser of the trailer that drops soon:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaynOP_Hhmo

Cap visiting Peggy
Falcon being Cap's ace boon coon main man 50 grand
Natasha Romonov being questionable
Cap's love for Bucky

They had a hell of a lot to adapt, and did a great job

Movie was really enjoyable

Dug the "paranoid 70's thriller" vibe of the movie, right down to the casting of Robert "3 Days of the Condor" Redford

Not the Greatest Comic Book Movie of All Time Ever in History, as some have claimed, certainly dead in spots, but it was fine

Not quite on the level of Avengers or Iron Man tho

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

Marvel just succeeded in trying to make Cap as cool to kids as Iron Man is. The action was top notch, good brutal fight scenes, the Nick Fury car chase was exquisite, Winter Soldier was a great villain, and Marvel has set themselves up yet again for more success in the future.

Now on to some nitpicks... I'm still a little perturbed about the lack of explanation on what other characters do during these solo movies now. Tony Stark's house blows up in Iron Man 3, where's SHIELD and The Avengers? In Thor: The Dark World, London is on the verge of being destroyed and Earth as a whole thanks to the Dark Elves, but where's SHIELD and/or The Avengers? It wasn't as bad with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, but where was agent of SHIELD, Hawkeye? Wouldn't their be more of a reaction from others about the events of the movie?

1. Despite having worked together successfully once, they're not exactly texting one another on the regular. That's sort of the "cop-out" answer.

2. The actual answer: in comics, when bad guys attack, heroes don't always join together to help each other. They're off in their solo series, solving their own shit, handling their own threats. Same thing here: since every movie can't be an Avengers movie, they split the threatening situations into different parts of the country and let each hero handle their biz.

In an ideal world, they at least mention, "oh Hawkeye is off doing this thing, so he can't be here," but they can't put him in to further clutter a film that already has to give arcs to a shitload of characters.

That works much better in a comic book setting than in a movie-verse (whatever that means given that we're discussing superheroes).

Either way, it's still pretty entertaining.

i haven't read them all, but for instance, War Machine was in China battling the 10 Rings terrorist group when the alien attack happened in New York City. in the tie-in comic they actually show Iron Man calling him at the beginning of the battle and War Machine is like, "dude i'm on the other side of the world, i'll get there as soon as i can". he actually shows up after the battle is over when they're at the shawarma restaurant.

so they try to somewhat explain those kinds of situations, but also like it was said by someone else ... in the comics they don't always team up. they are only gong to get together when it's more than one of them can handle. having said that and then just recently watched the new Cap movie i wouldn't be surprised to see some team up movies in the future where you'll see at least 2 of them getting together to fight some threat.

>2. The actual answer: in comics, when bad guys attack, heroes
>don't always join together to help each other. They're off in
>their solo series, solving their own shit, handling their own
>threats. Same thing here: since every movie can't be an
>Avengers movie, they split the threatening situations into
>different parts of the country and let each hero handle their
>biz.

The problem here, is, SPOILER



SHIELD, and Fury in particular, has been central to this entire string of films. It's a little odd that we don't at least see Stark and Banner or Hawkeye after the funeral, or at least mentioned, or in a post-credits scene, or something to tie their presence in because this was a world-altering event in terms of the Marvel CU. It's not a big deal, but IMO an event this big demanded the presence of those guys, at least in minimal ways.

Would've been dope to at least get cameos at Fury's funeral.

When the kid from Community first showed up on screen, they mentioned something about someone in Afghanistan. I didn't catch the beginning of the line but I assumed it was explaining where someone was.

But overall, I think it's just going to have to be something that people need to overlook. I had a bigger issue with it in Thor than this one but you're right that it's more problematic since SHIELD was in this one. I've just grown to expect logic gaps (like why Frank Grillo didn't just kill Cap once they secured the ship in the opening scene.)

I enjoyed the movie and that didn't lessen my enjoyment whatsoever, nor do I feel that makes any difference in any way.

That doesn't mean it's not an obvious question to ask because Fury and SHIELD are so integral to the overall MCU.

So, while I'm not bothered, I still think it's a valid question to ask. At the end of the day none of this shit is remotely plausible and I can look at every movie like this and ask a thousand questions, but if the answer to the most important question of "Did I have a good time?" is "HELL THE FUCK YEAH!" then it's whatever in the end, and I can overlook a lot of shit even if I have crazy critiques.

I love watching giant robots destroy the world, so Transformers is a bearable guilty pleasure. TMNT will probably be just as dumb and brimming with empty, oversexualized women and insane action sequences, and I'll just have a good time watching the eye candy.

I do think it's curious how easily people overlook these things and suspend disbelief with the Marvel movies, while DC movies seem to be picked to death over details like this.

The Dark Knight took itself far more seriously than the Marvel films have so that (plus it seeming a bit more realistic) opens itself up to more "Wait, what?" criticisms.

As for Man of Steel, it just failed in the entertainment element for me.

>why Frank Grillo didn't just kill Cap once they
>secured the ship in the opening scene.

there really was no need to kill Cap at that point. they actually didn't go after Cap until the realized that he knew something after Fury was in his apartment. if Fury doesn't visit Cap and let him know that something's up, Cap would have just assumed that Fury was dirty like he was told and kept it moving. the plan was to get the 3 Helicarriers up in the air and they'd be able to take out anyone they wanted all at the same time.

...no other Avengers would show up. EXCEPT HAWKEYE BECAUSE HE WORKS AT SHEILD!

To be there. I mean, he's. Iron Man. He could be there in like an hour, regardless of where he was. Further, Stark is intimately ingrained in SHIELD in ways nobody else is, right down to providing them with tech. His father basically made Steve into Cap and is the primary reason the agency even exists, so his absence is highly conspicuous. It doesn't really matter, but it's something that's definitely noticeable.

Thor could be anywhere in the 9 realms, and his absence is completely plausible IMO and needs no explanation.

Banner could be hard to find, but apparently SHIELD tracked him fairly well. I suppose his absence is plausible.

Hawkeye though? No excuse whatsoever for why he wasn't a player in this. He's a SHIELD big dog and absolutely should have had a role here. Ditto Coulson, since Hill was there.

That said, Hawkeye remains a somewhat nagging absence. Overall this isn't a big deal despite the discussion we're having though I do think it's obvious and pertinent to ask where Stark and Agents Barton and Coulson were. Coulson can be explained in the series, which is a good thing, but unless the tv explains Barton's whereabouts, that's the only truly glaring ommission from this movie.

Stark blew up his suits. Barton was on a mission.

Easy.

http://www.cinemablend.com/m/new/Here-Why-Hawkeye-Isn-t-Captain-America-Winter-Soldier-42427.html

Here's Why Hawkeye Isn't In Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Author: Eric Eisenberg

Here's Why Hawkeye Isn't In Captain America: The Winter Soldier image
The fictional clandestine organization known as S.H.I.E.L.D. plays a massive role in the plot of Joe and Anthony Russo’s Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and as a result just about all of the major players get a time to shine. Both Samuel L. Jackson’s Nick Fury and Scarlett Johansson’s Black Widow play important supporting characters in the story, Cobie Smulder’s Maria Hill makes her first big appearance since The Avengers, and the movie introduces important people like Alexander Pierce (Robert Redford) and Agent 13 (Emily VanCamp). But while walking out of the theater I was bugged by a lingering question: where was Jeremy Renner’s Hawkeye?

As audiences know thanks to appearances in both Thor and The Avengers, Hawkeye, a.k.a. Clint Barton, is a talented, high-level field agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., so it was a bit strange that he was nowhere to be found in the S.H.I.E.L.D.-centric Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Luckily, one of the best parts of my job is that I get to talk with filmmakers and get these kinds of questions answered. So that’s exactly what I did while interviewing screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeeley.

To start, the writers admitted that when they were first working on the script there were some big conversations about including Hawkeye in the film. Ultimately, it was decided that they wouldn’t be able to give the arrow-flinging hero a proper amount of screen-time because they were introducing and building on so many other characters who really deserved attention.

"We knew we wanted Falcon there, we knew we wanted ," McFeeley told me. "You’re introducing Winter Soldier. Fury’s got a bigger part in this one. It just started to seem like he was going to kind of get a crappy part."

"If we were going to use him, we really wanted to use him well," Markus added.



It was decided that having a good script was more important than shoe-horning Hawkeye into the plot – a totally reasonable, smart verdict – but still I wondered if they actually knew what was going on with the character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe while the plot of Captain America: The Winter Soldier was unfolding. Markus explained that they were at one point experimenting with including a line about what Hawkeye was doing, but by the end it wasn’t included in the final cut of the film.

"We toyed around with, and maybe even shot a line or at least in a draft there’s a line where we explained he's off somewhere doing something else," McFeeley said, vaguely explaining the agent’s whereabouts.

Markus said that one nice thing about the way the plot of Captain America: The Winter Soldier unfolds is that it all happens on a very short timeline, which actively prevents outside reinforcements from arriving on the scene. "That is the benefit of a short time period," he said. "The movie only takes place in about three days. So, that helps you not call in Iron Man and you know, all your other friends."

So what was the "something else" - presumably a mission - that Hawkeye was doing that prevented him from helping both Captain America and Black Widow? I guess we’ll just have to wait until Joss Whedon’s The Avengers: Age of Ultron to find out.

Again, it's not a big deal and doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the film and I don't know anyone who was bothered by it. I completely get why he's not in the film for a thousand reasons, I'm just saying that story wise, it's a noteworthy absence.

I don't care where he was because it's a movie about superheroes and I suspend disbelief for all kinds of wild shit. I just think it's noticeable that he wasn't there.

Not only was he on a mission, but that because they didn't know who was legit and who was HYDRA, they wouldn't have called anyone else in. Which is why they went to Falcon for help.

There are plenty of plausible explanations.

The issue isn't that there aren't reasonable explanations to be had.

Actually, it's not even an issue, just something that stands out.

Anyhow, all I'm saying is the complete absence and complete lack of explanation as to why such integral pieces like Barton and Stark didn't show up or get an on screen explanation of their absence was noticeable.

No matter how plausible, these explanations that appear in articles still don't detract from the fact that it.did.not.appear.in.the.movie.

It's not that explanations don't exist or it's not easy for me to overlook it, it's just that those are two very conspicuous absenses that aren't explained in.the.movie, and no amount of discussion or articles or writer explanations or real-world logistic issues changes the fact that those are noteable absenses without explanation in the movie itself.

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

Cap.
Black Widow has a bigger role.
Fury having a MAJOR role.
Then introducing Falcon.
Crossbones
Then Pierce
THEN WINTER SOLDIER

By the time they tried to fit Hawkeye into it, the bus is pretty much full. They were going to add a line or whatever to explain his diappearance but didn't want to write him into a corner.

Also the plot unfolds within three days. Could he have been onsite by then? Sure. But it ain't like Hawkeye would have operational insight so quickly.

More than likely, in universe, he's in the middle of an OP and after SHIELD is fucked up, he's a man in the cold trying to find himself back into the fold.

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

I think all the main players are signed for a specific number of films, and they probably either turned down anything else, or else they might have had to pay out millions more just to get Tony Stark on screen for one short scene. Anyway, since it seems like they are trying to phase him out of the spotlight as the main Avenger and replace him with Dr. Strange, I can see not trying to keep having him pop up.

I'm not sure about Jeremy Renner though. Unless there was scheduling conflict, they should have found a way to get him into at least a scene or two.

All I'm saying is that from a storytelling perspective, the absence of Tony and Hawkeye is definitely noticeable.

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

Since I have not stated anywhere that his presence was required as muscle of some kind.

As an aside, asking how Iron Man could help in a fight against Hydra is also a little strange.

Remember how Falcon did nothing but get chased and look cool as fuck in the process?

Yeah

Tony would have fired off all matter of missles and rockets and lasers an shit and blown those jets to hell and back.

Remember when Hydra captured Cap, Widow, and Falcon? Tony says a word to Jarvis and the Mark 5000 locks onto everyone in the room and that takes care of that. Asking how Tony could help is a very odd question, because that's like asking how adding Tim Duncan in his prime to a team like the Thunder. He'd put them over the top in such a big way it wouldn't even be fair.

At any rate, none of what I said implied Tony was needed to help in some way, so you'll have to provide a question with more relevance to what I'm talking about.

/

Pepper knows good and well the world needs Iron Man, as does Tony, and that shit won’t remain the status quo. Let’s not pretend they did away with IM as a character, or that Tony wouldn’t have shit to offer without the armor (I mean, he did provide new tech for carriers, did he not?) Shit that hole to nowhere device was probably his.

Further, that STILL wasn’t what I was saying before PI chimed in with his strangely irrelevant question. I was talking about the lack of so much as an explanation of his whereabouts and how it’s noticeable that a character as integral to the MCU and SHIELD as an entity within the MCU as Tony was nowhere to be found during a major event.

I think they did that so that people didn't go "Where's Stark?" like you're doing.

And the answer to that is, he's in New York. Because he was targeted by Project Insight.

To be present for at least the tombstone scene for the guy responsible for putting this whole thing together, right?

Iron Man armor isn't necessary for us to see Stark's face or even to mention something on screen to explain why such an integral character isn't around for arguably the second biggest event of their universe

At any rate, I'm not making "where's Stark?" some major issue that brings down the entire movie. His absence was just something that stood out, and while there are plenty of plausible explanations to be had for why there was no mention of him or quick shot of him with Cap at the tombstone or something in the actual movie. All I'm saying is that it stands out that he's not around AND that there's no mention of why, not that it's even an issue.

For the millionth time, it's not a big deal, just something that's noticeable, but you can feel free to continue trying to defend something I'm not even attacking, just as PI can feel free to continue asking irrelevant questions about things I'm not even saying.

Iron man still gets top billing
Not sure where I put this but it's up there
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I was thoroughly delighted by its appearance..

there was also what could be seen as a Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid reference, when Robert Redford opened his fridge, and front and center was a bottle of Newman's Own salad dressing.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Subliminals only work for rap guys, bro

By the time I noticed, they switched angles on me.

Great catch.

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

what was it?

http://www.fatmovieguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Captain-America-The-Winter-Soldier-Nick-Fury-Tombstone.jpg

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i missed that
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I called this shit SOOOOO far back, soon after Avengers wrapped. As good as The First Avenger was, THIS was the sequel I was looking most forward to. At this point, don't need anymore standalone Iron Man flicks, he needs to team up with Hulk or Cap (that connection to his father would be good to draw from). Thor I was pleasantly surprised with how it turned out but WINTER SOLDIER HAD me fucking hyped. That's why I shut down any and all mention and preview of the movie until I could get to the theater.

And it delivered. ALL the way. What I like about the Avengers is that upon rewatching, it's easier to process some elements that get loss in the spectacle that is all of those heroes on one screen. This movie has similar elements, the layers of the conspiracy and how it's woven into other elements of the MCU, will make it great for a rewatch.

I'm seeing this in the theater prolly 3 times minimum.

http://marvel.com/news/movies/2014/4/7/22279/captain_america_to_return_to_theaters_may_6_2016

Commence dick swinging contest... now

Assuming Avengers 2 doesn't hurt the franchise. They've spent the last month telling us Cap2=Avengers in quality and delivered a good portion of that promise according to the general census.

If Avengers 2 continues the streak and they use the goodwill Cap 2 brought them, it might be a wrap for bats.

I don't know if I am supposed to be overjoyed that all my comic reading is redeemed, or worried about comic book movie fatigue.

I will be very surprised if Marvel decides to move. They had the date first, and frankly, they can afford to have their profits knocked by a weekend split with another superhero movie more than DC can.

Plus, as I said on the podcast, having the grittier hero movie come closer to the end of the summer, in mid-to-late July, just *feels* like a better fit. That time worked BEAUTIFULLY for the Batman Nolan sequels.

Are these motherfuckers THIS uncreative?

come the fuck on

I'm tired of this

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

....Hydra = Hydra....shit was great all the way through... but hate if you need to

Nah, but serious

This shit is mad corny, b


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

since it's a big part of the comic storyline five years ago that introduced the "Winter Soldier" as a badguy

If one wants to argue that one bit the other, the timeline shows the roles reversed.

Plus, HYDRA even showed up in a movie before League of Shadows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury:_Agent_of_S.H.I.E.L.D._%28film%29

So shhhhh

I got something else up my sleeve.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Looking forward to whatever special you have cooking in the crockpot.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

IVE READ MORE CAPTAIN AMERICA AND AVENGERS THAN ANYONE!

TAKE THAT, OKP

lol

Holy shit, WINNING! SOMEONE CALL CHARLIE, CAUSE OE STOLE THAT SHEEN

I'm convinced someone hacked your account after that nonsense.

That's the mark of a true legend

Niggas so pressed to pile on they don't realize
how nerdy they look in the process

This is golden

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Because you're coming dangerously close to sounding like a certain GD caricature right now.

else and still being wrong, yet everyone calling you out on it is looking nerdy?

I'm done...lol

I'm a sexy motherfucker who be having bitches on
my lap while I code in Ruby, nigga

Y'all in here "oooohhh!! u knooooww Hyrda is old right?!?!?

What a bunch of dweebs


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

everyone else in the post though? While calling everyone else nerdy? Yeah, that's pretty a nerdy move.

You posted up like you were laying bait for some genius trap that would turn this whole thing on it's head

Talk about anticlimactic

That shit like was like a white flag coming out of some pr0n dudes dick after 58 minutes hammering the current starlet du jour with all the virility of a Greek god.

It's pretty much the wackest play you've ever made, far worse than your persistent race baiting on the Pringles/Mike Brown situation in the face of empirical evidence to the contrary.

It's worse than the Night Dog worship despite him managing to smash through rock bottom for another freefall toward another shitty movie that everyone hates and loses a shit ton of money en route to another rock bottom that everything thinks will knock some sense into him, only to watch him smash through yet another rock bottom and drill further down.

This is worse than that, and that's abysmal.

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

So again, I win with every reply

You claimed that HYDRA was unoriginal and you got called out on it.

Beat it, bozo.

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

These replies are a testament to how dweebish y'all
are

I'm enjoying myself, about to have some hummus

i'm out.
_____________________
"WHOLESALE REUSABLE GROCERY BAGS!!"
@etfp

I mean, look at how many replies I got?

I got literally half this board:

"YOU DIDN'T KNOW HYDRA WAS OLLLD? YOU AINT UP ON
SHIT, BRO"

Bwahahhahah

That's dweeby




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

not used to thgat from you? Usually way more exacting... And ahh... Hydra goes back to original Cap. I don't know if that's the same as the original Bat, but either way, it's not a new invention. Red Skull been running that shit forever.

Even I know better
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

c'mon

.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

nor have you owned any books even remotely close to what i've owned. Let me know when you buy silver age Avengers. Let me know when you've owned Golden Age Captain America Comics.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120624090208/simpsons/images/c/cb/Comicbookguy.gif

run time felt shorter than it was and there's some great action throughout. the three hero leads are bland as hell individually, but collectively it works (opposed to say Robert Downey Jr., who can choke the pace or script with his "being himself" routine).

This is second, but it didn't have any moments where I yelled out loud at awesomeness. Avengers had like ten of those.

So I know Marvel can't use the "M" word, but are they just gonna dream up a story that "THEY" were created through Chitari tech?

what's the "M" word?

if you're talking about the twins...didn't they insinuate that Hydra used Loki's staff to create them?

Loki's staff from Avengers isn't Asgardian, it was Chitari tech. And the twins are obviously Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, who are mutants, but I guess in this Marvel Universe they'll be genetically engineered super-humans.

Why can't Marvel Studios deal with Mutants???

Short answer: Sony and Marvel have been fighting over use of characters and ideas (all of which originated from Marvel but some of which was bought by Sony--like mutants, X-men, Spiderman, Silver Surfer, etc). Both are using Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. They worked it out but only in such a way where there is NO crossover.

From outside of Hollywood, it seems like the equivalent of drawing a chalk line in a room, and saying this half is mine and that half is yours...only there is a couch sitting right on the line, so we work it out by saying that we can both use it, but you have to call your half a sofa and not a couch. And we can't acknowledge each other when we're both sitting on the couch at the same time.

aka the loophole. The IGN movies podcast explained it as people that undergo genetic experimentation, but don't die from it. It's a "miracle" that they retain the powers from the testing and don't explode like Extremis.

right under Avengers.

i like it and the first Thor better than any of the Iron Man.

Also, I really hope they resolve the legal issues with this and the X-Men universe

and pleasantly surprised with the Danny Pudi cameo.

I was very pleasantly surprised at how well they navigated the multiple characters and gave each some solid depth...just extremely well done. The story and pacing kept me very engaged, they gave a level of brutality to Cap that is fitting of his character, the action had a scope that is only matched by the avengers (two issues though: the first is that damn tight angle, jittery cam which I hate but it wasn't too overly utilized; second, there was a definition green screen disconnect in a handful of scenes, notably the one shot where Cap is falling off the ship into the water), and really liked how they introduced Falcon and his dynamic with other returning vets (Cap being one).

Just a very good film, in almost all regards. Other than IM1 (especially since I'm a sucker for those 'science' scenes with the suit building), my fav Marvel film thus far.

this one being better is no slight to the quality of the first one.

Falcon almost saved it but needed more screen time

Way too much blah blah blah between the action scenes

MUsta went in with certain expectations... but man this was a great spy movie featuring superheroes

tell a story regardless of genre it is. Niggas complaining that this shit is too talky crack me up.

agent 13? pointless

fury's fake death? dumb

pierce? please

but it's marvel so yall stay amused regardless

I really liked the movie but I think Jigga's complaints do have merit. The spy elements were mostly either cliched or a scene filled with straight forward expository dialogue.

I give them credit for making a very good movie with so many movie parts and characters but the spy element most certainly was what was skimped on to give everyone else their due.

Was some it exposition? Sure. But, there was enough there to keep the spy elements engaging and used in a fun way.

If you go back and look at the fight scenes from the Wolverine and Dark Knight movies none of those came close to what we saw in TWS.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

Since 1976

nm

two different studios
one agreement

Marvel can't use the word Mutants, or reference the X-Men, Fox/Sony can't make mention of the Avengers or any of the characters Marvel owns, but there are some gray area characters that both studios can use. Quicksilver and Wanda are a couple, hence this mess.

it's Hollywood.


just think of it as an alternate universe version of Quicksilver. that's how they explain weird stuff like that in the comics.

Winter Soldier is way above the debut. Well done.
Grade A

Nick Fury, that dude faked his death way better than Loki,lol.
Loved it.

loved it

only thing would have made it slightly better in post credit scene is if Hugo Weaving returned as Red Skull, still hoping he does at some point, maybe Cap 3

thumbs all the way up