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Forum namePass The Popcorn Archives
Topic subjectGeneralize much?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=23&topic_id=102112&mesg_id=102130
102130, Generalize much?
Posted by Mole, Tue Jul-01-08 12:02 AM
>and there's craft there, like there is in wrestling, not
>art.

First of all, you're getting into a circular conversation about the "meaning" of art. I've long believed that is in the eye of beholder, but feel free to give me your personal definition as well.

>I'll give the Jonas Brothers a bit of edge over wrestlers
>seeing as they aren't greased up and juiced up creeps.

Again, not all wrestling is created equal. In America, particularly in the WWE, the majority of the guys ARE "greased up and juiced up creeps," but the head creep, Vince McMahon, has had a fetish for big, roided-out monsters who can barely move in the ring but look menacing. It's very difficult to get in the boss's good graces and get a push if you're not huge and lumbering, so guys shoot steroids into their ass until they have a heart attack and/or go crazy and murder their families. There are a LOT of things wrong with the industry in North America, but we're talking about the overall "artistry" here, not the business. If you look at wrestling in Japan and Mexico, the performers are often not "juiced up" and rarely "oiled up." And neither are the guys in some of the smaller domestic promotions. Their physiques aren't much different from swimmers or gymnasts or football players. So you can't judge the entire profession off WWE, even though it has more or less monopolized the market in the United States.

>Kids like wrestling because their hormones are repressed or
>going nuts. Adults reject it because it's vapid, homoerotic,
>sexist and creepy.

Wow, quite the analysis there. So adults reject wrestling because because "it's vapid, homoerotic, sexist and creepy?" That's painting with quite a big brush. I will admit that the increase in those elements is what drove me away to stop following wrestling in my early 20s, but it's inaccurate to suggest the adult fans who still watch have some sort of psychological problem. Check out deathvalleydriver.com. These guys are like the ultimate wrestling geeks, but they all have families, watch "real" sports, listen to cool music and seem perfectly well-adjusted. They just enjoy watching wrestling. Or Scott Keith, a longtime Internet figure who is sort of like the Chuck Klosterman of wrestling, over at rswpfaq.com. He has written several books on wrestling, and is a pretty intelligent guy. Bob Mould, leader of Husker Du, one of the most important bands in the history of US indie rock, worked as a writer for WCW. AND he's gay.

The point is, lumping all adult wrestling fans into some weirdo category is the same as doing it to the hardcore fans of anything, be it the "Stars Wars," Dungeons & Dragons, the NFL, whatever. Again, there are some people who'd probably lift an eyebrow at an adult who still collects comic books -- I'm not one of them, I'm just using this as an example -- and lodge the exact same complaints of vapidity, homoeroticism, sexism and general creepiness toward the comic book industry. I mean, aren't the women in North American wrestling basically comic book heroines come to life?