Greetings

I'm doing some research on the WIC program and it's breastfeeding campaign. I came across this article that gives a good overview of the benefits and problems associated with breastfeeding. I know this may not exactly be "activist" material but I think it's important that we encourage women to breastfeed in our own lives and more importantly that, as a society, we take strides toward making breastfeeding a feasible and more honored part of parenting.

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/895_brstfeed.html

-just a counteropint to help make your point.

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

The article has a lot of information about this but just to start formula, while it is fortified with iron and other vital vitamins it doesn't contain half of what breastmilk can provide. This even includes certain antibodies that can be transferred from mother to child. Interestingly, nursing is said to foster a closer relationship between the mother and child...I'm not a mother but I've heard people talk about this and I think that psychological bonding through nursing is just as important as anything else.

as are the breasts it comes from

*yum*

www.anacostiaws.org
www.earthfirstjournal.org/

:) we'll take your word for it.

*yes. i LOVE watching "Friends"*

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

dude...i didn't get that joke but I'll take your word for it.

Do you really watch friends? How 'bout Buffy?

he's my favorite character. i feel his pain.

www.anacostiaws.org
www.earthfirstjournal.org/

of breastmilk with breasts and breasts with sexuality and breastmilk with giggles and uncomfortability is the source of maaaaannnnny breastfeeding issues/problems/the need for breastfeeding activism

i'm not saying u necessarily meant it that way, but u raised the point for me anyway

life would be a lot easier for breasteeding mothers if breastfeeding in public was the norm. and more people would feel comfortable discussing and learning how to breastfeed.

as it is now it's like this quiet underground movement

breastfeeding is one of our most natural basic human functions

formula should be restricted to 0people with milk producing problems


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"I'm proud to be your woman not your girl" Jill Scott

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

Some babies are allergic to formulas or you need to find the right one that matches your child needs.

Is there ever anything good in a can? :)





If you don't like it , too bad !

what's up with WIC doing a breastfeeding campaign-- they're really doing one? it's interesting that you posted this because someone i know through work and i were talking the other day about the fact that WIC practically supports the formula industry. (as do pediatricians who don't strongly encourage nursing) is it a new thing?

To be honest I'm not sure what this whole thing is about.....I guess I shouldn't call it a campaign because it's not like they're toting posters at rallies or anything like that but the AAP and even WIC have established that breastfeeding is healthier for infants. Maybe in the end they've realized that it's also an economically sound idea to encourage WIC eligible mothers to breastfeed. It would be interesting to find out how the formula industry fits into this equation.

In 1998 the federal government allowed state WIC programs to use food funds to purchase pumps. I'm looking to see how many states actually make these pumps available to women. This is an important part of breastfeeding. If a woman decides she needs to get back to so that she can feed and clothe her family unless she has a breast pump and/or a nursing friendly work environment she basically has to choose between her baby and her job.....how fair is that? So basically, they say breastfeeding is better but it remains to be seen what they're actually doing to make it a feasible option for low income women.

u can't work and breastfeed


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

...

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

What do you mean?

==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

of course it requires "planning"... but why not just readjust one's environment so that you can focus on the child? i'm not speaking of those who DON'T plan and HAVE to work... but i see women all the time using the pump just out of "choice" to avoid the time contraints of breastfeeding...and thus, they use the pump as a time saving quick-fix.

in my breastfeeding book...they mention how americans use pumps to add "convenience" instead of goin natural. i mean, after all, women all around the rest of the world can breatfeed and perform tasks without the pump...

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

but i see women
>all the time using the
>pump just out of "choice"
>to avoid the time contraints
>of breastfeeding...and thus, they use
>the pump as a time
>saving quick-fix.

WHERE do you see women doing this? using a breastpump is not the most comfortable thing. and it's more time consuming than letting your baby breastfeed.

>in my breastfeeding book...they mention how
>americans use pumps to add
>"convenience" instead of goin natural.
>i mean, after all, women
>all around the rest of
>the world can breatfeed and
>perform tasks without the pump...

but we're not in the rest of the world! perhaps you should give some examples of the type of work women do in other places that makes it easier for them to incorporate breastfeeding, but HERE, most poeple work in envirionments where that's not possible.

and using a book as your primary reference on breastfeeding is just...i don't know...something seems wrong


**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

"and using a book as your primary reference on breastfeeding is just...i don't know...something seems wrong"

I'm surprised you didn't say GROSS. BTW, check you inbox.

the otehr night i pumped pure blood

i'm still recovering


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

it was never that bad. blood? and what's up with the $150 lactation consultant? they used to show you how for free in the hospital.

when i was working/pumping the pump NEVER got all the milk out and by the time i picked up my daughter, i had to nurse her before i even left the babysitter, cause full breasts = painful breasts.

not to mention the times during the day when i would "think" about her and my breast would "activate"...there's no way i would use a pump over breastfeeding unless i had to.

**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

>it was never that bad. blood?

because i've been pumping too much........

>and what's up with the
>$150 lactation consultant? they used
>to show you how for
>free in the hospital.

my daughter was in the nicu until a few days after i went home, so i had to start out pumping, and i was engorged by the time she was sent home- and then all cracked- and then i was ready
>
>when i was working/pumping the pump
>NEVER got all the milk
>out and by the time
>i picked up my daughter,
>i had to nurse her
>before i even left the
>babysitter, cause full breasts =
>painful breasts.
>
when i get home i tend to be in some pain. sometimes i get home right after she ate..... (she's not on a schedule yet, but a schedule will definitely help out here)

>not to mention the times during
>the day when i would
>"think" about her and my
>breast would "activate"...there's no way
>i would use a pump
>over breastfeeding unless i had
>to.

yeh. i feel ya. on both counts.


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

was telling me of some things they learned about the pump from the many doctors they talked to...

they are west indian and were VERY adamant about NOT using it at all. one thing they were told is that the pump will not allow the breast to CONTINUE to produce milk as does a baby. studies shown (and this is from teh doctors' mouths they visited and asked) said that there is a significant difference between the amount of milk produced over time from suckling vs. pumping. i don't think we need to go into the natural argument as to the impact of such a change. if the breast stops producing milk sooner with the pump than with a REAL baby... then the end user (the baby) will certainly be affected...as other studies showed. the ddoctors said there are real good alternatives to breast milk that try to mimic the real thing...but nothing is better than a NATURAL child suckling a NATURAL breast.

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

my daughter can't keep up with me


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

of breastmilk in the fridge? memories. milk production was NEVER a problem.

**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

8 when i left in the morning and 6-7 in the fridge

i got sick for a week once and she had to use formula. never again!


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

between raising kids here and in "developing countries" is the amount of support for parents and acceptance of children

here u are pretty limited in yr activities when yr attached to a child

u'd go crazy if u didn't have an outlet, and without the natural outlets, u are forced to take time away from yr kids if u want an outlet


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

what good does it do? i can understand "dealing with reality" but if things are NOt getting better...then what's next? more excuses?

of course this american lifestyle prevents hurdles...but shit, if people aren't going to stand up against those hurdles and struggle against something as simpe as BREASTFEEDING A CHILD....then i fear for the furture.

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

about this

u have no concept of what u are proposing


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

check this out: in primitive or "traditional" cultures... this "breastfeeding vs. work" isn't an issue. ask yourself "WHY"?

you'll not only notice societal differences, but cutural ones as well that explain this.
________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

"changing society's attitutde towards women" is kinda fluffy and out there.

while we're waiting on this revolution of thought to happen, women are still gonna have children.

i DO know that you can;'t change/help anybody if you aren't gonna listen to them as they relate they're experience. even if you think it's gross it's what "is" and to change anything you have to be able to deal with reality.

**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

simple as that. eventually a "sharp break" and a light bulb must light up that makes the person choose between DOING what will/has work, vs. sticking with what they've been doing. why not just have that happen at the beginning?

at soul veggie in the KOH (kingdom of ya) they don't PLY. they deliver naturally and do all the nursing and childcare as it has been done for centuries... they do it all themselves and have some healthy ass babies. one thing they don't have though...are excuses. they HAVE to do it when they enter... no if, ands, or buts about it. sometimes that's just the way it has to be.

it of course leaves out a lot of people who just won't DO those things...but you can't force people to change. they have to do that themselves...
________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

having a community suport you. take that out and the game changes.

let's use me as an example. when i was pregnant w/ my son, i was in tally in a supportive, wholistic environmnet. 7 months pregnant, i came home to see my mom for the firts time since i had been pregnant. stressful situation, my blood pressure sky rockets, i start feeling like i'm having a heart attack, 24 hours later i'm having a c-section halfway across the country from my support network.

everything that i had "planned" to do didn't go that way. i was supposed to have a natural childbirth. i was supposed to be surrounded by like-minded people. that was the plan.

anyways, my son couldn't breastfeed but what i COULD do was pump my breasts and they would feed it to him intraveneously. which i did. and he survived and after a month and a half they released him and i was able to pick up breastfeeding in a "normal" way.

but i had to go through some "unnaturalness" to get to that point. and that's what i'm saying. if you can't offer people solutions for the here-and-now, then all that other shit you're saying just doesn't matter. help me find solutions right now, do that, and maybe i'll be open to what you have to say about the future.


**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

"but i had to go through some "unnaturalness" to get to that point. and that's what i'm saying. if you can't offer people solutions for the here-and-now, then all that other shit you're saying just doesn't matter. help me find solutions right now, do that, and maybe i'll be open to what you have to say about the future."

-this is the very idea of the classic ameriacn "band-aid" fix.

people get surgeries to correct their colon cancer...peopl get told they have high blood pressure..people are told that they need a spedcific surgery to remove a damaged organ... and all these people get the "fix" but don't make that change in the FUTURE. that's the point. this culture has many, many, band-aid fixes...that help people to survive, but they also have many, many, many, many repeats of the same conditions.

you might be an exception...but the people i talk to continue to ask for band-aid, after band-aid, after band-aid. and this is how the solutions here work...you get a fix and then don't move on to a point to where you don't have to have that fix gain...thus people continue the same behaviors.

what are YOUr suggestions to get people to do something NATURAL (in this breastfeeding example) vs. doing the wrong thing, o using quick fixes?


________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

and then let people decide.

>people get surgeries to correct their
>colon cancer...peopl get told they
>have high blood pressure..people are
>told that they need a
>spedcific surgery to remove a
>damaged organ... and all these
>people get the "fix" but
>don't make that change in
>the FUTURE.

>you might be an exception...

and that's what matters. the exception. unless you plan to move out of this country then you have to be knowledgable of the grossness AND of the exceptions. the people who choose to go another path. that way, when you deal with people who don't know any better (and not knowing any better includes people who do know of another way, but not how to apply it to their life) you can give them real life examples THAT THEY CAN RELATE TO of people who took another path, and that path has worked for them.

and if the only people you're around is gross peopple, then you should change your environment. casue you are not seeing the whole picture.

as far as breastfeeding, my suggestions have to do with my experience. what propmted me to breastfeed first and foremost was seeing other women breastfeed during the time i was pregnant. next, it was reading. i read everything. all the parenting/baby magazines, anything i could get my hands on. so i was well-versed on both sides of the breastfeeding argument, and when it came down to it, everyone agreed that breastfeeding was best. that wasn't the issue. the issue was how to do it when you have to work. or when you're out in public and there's no bathroom around. or where to go when you have problems with breastfeeding.

so perhaps that's what women are in need of. information. more access to support groups and literature that deals with breastfedding in this society that's not so "breasfeeding friendly" environment.

for you..i don't know. maybe oyu should go to a breastfeeding mothers support group or meeting and talk to them. find out why they chose it, what they had to deal with, and how they overcame that. that way, when you deal with moms who are contemplating it or even those who have ruled it out you can have some suggestions or resources to offer them instead of just being disgusted.


**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

i still can't get over how people are scared or wary of doing things that aren't accepted by society...sorta like that whole "i feel bad when i am around meat eaters at dinner" thing for some vegetarians. that type of attitude where people are afraid of DOING what they know is right with respect to their environment is foreign to me, so i guess i'll never understand it...*shrugs*

also...people DO respond to the fire more often than don't. you disrupt someone's world hard enough, when they put themsleves back together, they'll remmber and keep record of what caused it...

the women i talk to who breastfeed are all "natural types" so they just say..."DO IT." "it's natural" and "there's no substitution for the original."

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

of breastfeeding in public. people staring. people thinking that you nursing was a good time to discuss it with you.
people acting all disgusted. gross ass men seeing it as opportunity to see some "flesh". but i eventually got the tshirt/blanket thing down and was able to do it without anybody really noticing.

i think i would be alot more comfortable with it now, but at the time i was young, and just the decision to breastfeed was a big step for me.

**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

I hear you but instead of comparing this society to others why not come up with ideas that will work here in this particular reality. If you look at the population of women receiving support from WIC it's mostly single mothers. If they don't work who's going to support them? What if a woman has not support network like the women from the more "traditional" societies? I think we're talking about a bunch of different things here.

Even in this social context, guerilla_love breastfeeding her child may or may not be the same as a low-income mother and her situation.

"I hear you but instead of comparing this society to others why not come up with ideas that will work here in this particular reality."

- i could make a whole post about this but... i really don't think that these provisional changes are really helping. i think they do more harm than good. sorta like how g_love was talking about that BK veggie burger. fuck the half way shit. go all out! interestingly enough...the nigerians sitting next to me are recanting tales of how continentals view americans and their attitudes with pregnancy...they think american women are weakl as hell and don't even TRY to do shit while pregnant which accounts for their lack of intensity when performing tasks and inability to cope with things that the nigerian women would generally laugh at...

also in their families...the women breastfeed LONGEr and recouperate SOONER than american women do. blame it on the way they see lazy americans...but it makes a good point. either DO what's "right"/"natural" or suffer the consequences of half-steppin'.

i'm not trying to sound harsh...but when billions of other people avoi problems that are kinda SPECICIFIC to this land...i can't help but see the problem being something easily solvable by adopting other techniques that DO work.



________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

they think american women
>are weakl as hell and
>don't even TRY to do
>shit while pregnant which accounts
>for their lack of intensity
>when performing tasks and inability
>to cope with things that
>the nigerian women would generally
>laugh at...

what women are you talking about? some rich mofo's who don't have to work? most women i know, and this transcends race, worked until 7 or 8 months and go back to work soon after. one of the doctor's who was there when i had my son, told me not to worry casue she had a c-section and was back finishing her residency two weeks after.

>also in their families...the women breastfeed
>LONGEr and recouperate SOONER than
>american women do.

be specific...how long do the women breastfeed and how long do women normally breastfeed here.

i'm impressed by this respect you're showing for continental afrikans.


**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

he won't say how much longer...but he says that they nurse longer. i think he says this as result of the fact that they are with their children more... american women disconnect with their children sooner. i.e. spending WAYYYY less time with them.

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

how long are we talking about?

how long does a typical american woman breastfeed? 1 week, 2 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years, 5 years?

ask him agian. find out how long a typical nigerian woman breastfeeds.

after that, find out why it is this way. the more specific we are the better the solutions will be.

**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

i think the issue is how to promote breastfeeding in the "unideal" society... while we are on our way to a better society in the future, can the babies get some breastmilk in the present?


______

"Money isn't real." - BLOW
______

his wife gave in, eventually saying that breasfeeding hurt too much. she WANTS to breasfeed cuz she knows it's better, but won't. but hey...i say, "do you". whateever gets you through the night. *shrugs*

talking to another coworker (female 37 yrs. old after asking her if sh breastfed, or if she used the pump, she replied "shit, i just poured that shit from the can."

i just walked away and didn't say ANYTHING...
________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

so we are saying the same thing? like i think this definitely needs to start with the individual working around society until society steps up... but you are saying the individuals are not stepping up? like i was saying below, it's not just educational facts but common sense... facts tell us that breastfeeding is best but you can get by on formula... but common sense should tell you if your body makes it for... and it is not supposed to hurt. if it hurts, you are doing something wrong. breastfeeding did not hurt for me until my daughter's teeth came in...

and your coworker, seems there is more going on there... if you really want to do something, you do it? mothers should not be stressed over this, that just makes it more difficult. and some may look for a reason to give up rather than a reason to continue... but no one wants mothers to feel guilty to the point where it is affecting their mental/physical well-being. that helps little...

also, i used fenugreek http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/med-aro/factsheets/FENUGREEK.html to increase milk production when i was not pumping so regularly. and i used a manual breast pump.

______

"Money isn't real." - BLOW
______

dude..."performing tasks" and having a full time job away from your home and child are two different things.

personally...i would opt for much more flexible help and support for mothers... but that'd require a total revamping of curren ideas in THIS country... hell, we can spend trillions to put some metal in space, but not a fraction of that to give mothers the time and resources they need to nurse... that's bullshit. but hey...i gues that's america.
________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

that the woman should have to choose between working and breastfeeding? explain.

**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

american culture is one where natural actiities are being fused with un-natural ones due to the nature of this society... the only thing i have with that is...THEY AREN'T WORKING. and if it don't work...
________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

while it's true that some women are prioritizing their careers over their children... many women return to work to *provide* for their children, period. i think that it's insensitive to assume that a working woman just doesn't care about bonding with her child. because yes, that is her choice, but what's the other option? to lose half (or all) of the family income, and not be able to provide the child with as many opportunities in the future.

it's not as easy as you want to make it.

-k-

"I WAS GONNA ASK... ARE YOU BLACK OR WHITE?...HOW ABOUT i SAW THIS WHITE GIRL IN THE BAR WHILE I WAS WITH MY GIRLS...SHE HAD THE WHOLE ALICIA THANG GOING ON AND WOULDN'T MAKE EYE CONTACT WITH US FOR ISH...I THOUGHT IT WAS HILARIOUS....IT WASN'T LIKE WE WERE GOING TO RUIN HER WHOLE NUBIAN PRINCESS FANTASY THING SHE HAD GOING ON....WHY WAS SHE AFRAID TO LOOK AT US....YOU HAD TO BE THERE...HAHAHAHAH...THEN ONE TIME I SAW THIS LITTLE WHITE GIRL IN THE DRUG STORE WITH HER PARENTS AND SHE HAD HER HAIR BRAIDED...SHE KEPT JUMPING AROUND AND DANCING....I THOUGHT TO MYSELF...IS THIS HOW SHE THINK LITTLE BLACK GIRLS ACT????"
-dtblack, on infin8's braided hair on the job experience

1st of all-- women in extreme poverty, like, on welfare, don't have choices. because of our draconian welfare "reform" policies welfare moms pretty much (with minor, but notable exceptions) have to work-- or face losing their benefits.

2nd-- you have to have at least one wage earner making a pretty penny to be able to pull of supporting a family well.

i agree that it's about cultural values-- but until we make major changes in how we value mothering, women's work, and work in general (the fact that usually one income can't support a family)-- women are still going to be making these f*cked up choices every day. and it's not just about breastfeeding.

are a symptom of a huuuuuuuge problem in the realm of breastfeeding



==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"I'm proud to be your woman not your girl" Jill Scott

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

lactation consultants???

well, in this wondrously westernized world of ours, instead of us teaching eachother how to breastfeed, we pay $150 a visit for a consultant to teach us how and then troubleshoot any problems.

believe it or not, u do need help at first.


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

That sounds so odd to me becasue in my family and the family of friends of mine, the women tach one another. The black families I KNOW can't afford to pay 150 bones for something like that. That souns silly to me, but who am I?

"up for adoption" stamp on my head

just kidding

my family lives pretty far away from me, so there wasn't anyone around to teach me


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

breastfeed in public?

because the huuuuuuuuuge sex industry in this country thrives on the "my parts are dirty" way of thinking



==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

white people.

i find it funny that of all the groups around the world. only europeans have attached a stigma to this act. everywhere else, it's normal. i think Marimba Ani would chalk this up under the "conflict between man and nature" behavior of europeans.

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

>i find it funny that of
>all the groups around the
>world. only europeans have attached
>a stigma to this act.

Your source ? And have you researched all these groups around the world before coming up with your conclusion ?

And by Europeans, do you mean orthodox catholic Italian people or a Swedish nudist ? IMO, it's a matter of culture and how people feel about nudity (whether or not there's an automatic sexual connotation). Western and US culture (in general) sees breasts and thighs mainly as sexual body parts, that's the factor you should blame.

However, I understand women not wanting to breastfeed their child in public, since it's an intimate moment for both child and mother. Some people choose to share it with other people, others don't. That's an invididual and personal decision.



krewcial
www.vinylators.com

- NEW SINGLE "STATEMENT" -
feat. Rollarock (Postmen, Amolab) & Ugene (Candy Dulfer, Urban Dance Squad, Ugene & Oh-Jay)
in stores May 2002

taken from the forthcoming album "25/8"

it delves into the history of breastfeeding throughout history and cross cultuurall. it even shaers some of the public opinion presented by these cultures and their reactions to it. europeans are the only ones to place a stigma on it. in every other culture listed, it was not an issue.

"And by Europeans, do you mean orthodox catholic Italian people or a Swedish nudist?"

-what the hell are you talking about? if you don't know what "european" means...i can't really help you out. your question is unfocused and just outright confusing. where do you find the bridge between me mentioning "european" and "orthodox catholic Italian people" ?!? just wondering what's going through your head...
________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

the only people i feel comfortable nursing around are europeans

because they come from communities where breastfeeding publicly is the norm

i don't think that the ethiopian men and women i know would be uncomfortable with an ethiopian person nursing in front of them, but, thanks to our loopy american attitudes, i'm held to a different stick


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

...a matter of familiarity perhaps?

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

u know the "what color are yr nipples" syndrome

==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

>"And by Europeans, do you mean
>orthodox catholic Italian people or
>a Swedish nudist?"
>
>-what the hell are you talking
>about? if you don't know
>what "european" means...i can't really
>help you out.
>your question
>is unfocused and just outright
>confusing. where do you find
>the bridge between me mentioning
>"european" and "orthodox catholic Italian
>people" ?!? just wondering what's
>going through your head...

Both Swedish and Italian people are European last time I checked. There's an enourmous cultural diversity within Europe, so please specify which Europeans you're referring to.






krewcial
www.vinylators.com

- NEW SINGLE "STATEMENT" -
feat. Rollarock (Postmen, Amolab) & Ugene (Candy Dulfer, Urban Dance Squad, Ugene & Oh-Jay)
in stores May 2002

taken from the forthcoming album "25/8"

easily put...cultures excluding traditional asian, african, orginal peoples of north america and south america.

more easily put... white people. (but not necessaily limited to white people. this is where the western part comes in)

represented in the present day predominately by continental europe, and the U.S.

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

Okay, so you're saying European culture excludes traditional Asian, African, North and South American people ?

Weird, cos I live in Europe, and when I travel to Caldas Da Rainha in Portugal, or London, Amsterdam, Paris or Marseille I see a multitude of people living their own life, celebrating their culture, the way they want, without being excluded.

In Nice, I see the (North) African influence in the Mediterranean way of life and architecture, there's the French bourgondic influence in my own city, the West Indies influence in London soundsystems, etcetera.

Have you actually ever been in Europe ?




krewcial
www.vinylators.com

- NEW SINGLE "STATEMENT" -
feat. Rollarock (Postmen, Amolab) & Ugene (Candy Dulfer, Urban Dance Squad, Ugene & Oh-Jay)
in stores May 2002

taken from the forthcoming album "25/8"

i just don't know how to explain it anymore...i just don't know...

do you ever read any books written by non-europeans that use the terms "european" or "european culture"?

there are PLENTY of authors...european and non-european alike that define and use this term all the time. i'm wondering why it's so hard for you to understand what is being conveyed...

or are you just trying to be difficult?
________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

>there are PLENTY of authors...european and
>non-european alike that define and
>use this term all the
>time.

I'm not interested in those authors' definition, I want your definition, since you're the person posting here.

And if what you say is true, what about some very 'white' European countries having something called 'breastfeeding leave', where mothers have a guaranteed income when they choose to stay at home to feed their children ?

Plus other legislation that
- forces women to stop working 8 weeks before giving birth, and have at least 6 weeks of paid recovery at home
- forces the employer to give women with a physical/dangerous/stressing job another job, or let them stay at home and pay them if they can't provide a less endangering (for the child) job
- also gives the father the right to stay at home a couple of months (paid) to take care of his child




krewcial
www.vinylators.com

- NEW SINGLE "STATEMENT" -
feat. Rollarock (Postmen, Amolab) & Ugene (Candy Dulfer, Urban Dance Squad, Ugene & Oh-Jay)
in stores May 2002

taken from the forthcoming album "25/8"

europe has a lot of great solutions to the childrearing and pregnancy problems that plague us here

my sister in law is in london and we kept in touch during our concurrent pregnancies and now. her situation was completely different than mine

there are huge differences between pregnancy and childrearing in developed and nondeveloped countries. in addis ababa, there would have been no pregnancy classes. i would have had family nearby to teach me. even if i was employed, my family would have forced me to quit at some point in the pregnancy. i would never have had to carry heavy things or assume any large burdens. my labor would have been quick and unmedicated, as it was, and both my daughter and i would have died within hours of the birth, her for the fluid in her lungs and me for excessive bleeding- unless stitches were available for me.

once i gave birth, tehre would be a steady stream of wellwishers bringing everything that my baby needs. i would be on bedrest, and there would be ceremonies to welcome me into motherhood. my only responsibility would be nursing my child.

in europe, i would have gone on leave a while before the birth. i would have used that time to prepare for the baby. we both would have survived the birth, and then my primary responsibilities would have been nursing and baby things for the next few months while i recuperated.

in america, i worked up until my due date, while in the early stages of labor, suffering frequent contractions at my desk. i was on bedrest the week leading up to my induction, and got done while i could through the pain. both of us survived the birth. for the next week i was resting and nursing and then i had to take on a lot more responsibilities because my husband went back to work. i went back to work after a month, and we can't afford childcare. we both work full time to support the family, in split shifts, meaning niether of us remembers the last time we slept 8 hours in a night. we work around the clock with no support, no family nearby, and no friends who have kids or understand or are interested in the childrearing process.


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

I'm so glad that you post about your childrearing experiences cause people like me totally romanticize parenting cause I really don't have friends my age who have been through it yet. If you ever need a babysitter let me know....I'll be in DC until June.

based on finances, genetics and "luck"...

in america - i'm not married, make over $40K... i saved up my paid vacation time and took a week and and a half off before delivery, had a week left over, 6 weeks paid and 6 weeks unpaid maternity leave. my daughter was born on her due date so my plans fell into place well. because i've been at this company 2 years, i received 80% of my pay, and in december, received my year end bonus which allowed me to take 4 unpaid weeks. my company gave me a laptop to work from home... i was allowed to come back on full time salary working in office 4 days a week... i found a daycare that excepted breastmilk (but not cloth diapers). the staff was great, the cost was $640 a month for 4 days a week of which my daughter's father paid $250.

my prenatal and delivery costs were fully covered. i had a quick delivery, but tearing so i was sutured. left the hospital after 2 days/nights with a healthy baby who spent those days/nights in the room with me learning to breastfeed. the nurses helped a lot (as well as the 7 week $200 childbirth class i took). actually, they are not supposed release any mother who plans to breastfeed but is having problems... they gave me a manual breast pump, free... i'm only a B cupper so it worked great for me... when i went back to work, i pumped in the bathroom. i also supplemented with soy formula when i got behind schedule. so my daughter's breastmilk only stage was a little over three months; well established though, and she would only take a bottle from others, not from me...

looking back, things just worked out for me... but if they had not, i guess i would have moved in with my daughter's father... my family is in VA. the day care closed but one of the care givers now keeps my daughter in her home. my daughter loves her/the environment and i guess we have "another family" now... my daughter is rarely sick, very precocious and super cute!

i wish all the okp mothers and mothers to be the best. and i recommend breastfeeding for at least 3 months. it's the kind of thing where a little can go a long way. seek out people who will support you, know your rights, "do better" not necessarily "the best." don't waste mental energy on guilt.

>my due date, while in
>the early stages of labor,
>suffering frequent contractions at my
>desk. i was on bedrest
>the week leading up to
>my induction, and got done
>while i could through the
>pain. both of us survived
>the birth. for the next
>week i was resting and
>nursing and then i had
>to take on a lot
>more responsibilities because my husband
>went back to work. i
>went back to work after
>a month, and we can't
>afford childcare. we both work
>full time to support the
>family, in split shifts, meaning
>niether of us remembers the
>last time we slept 8
>hours in a night. we
>work around the clock with
>no support, no family nearby,
>and no friends who have
>kids or understand or are
>interested in the childrearing process.


______

"Money isn't real." - BLOW
______

>However, I understand women not wanting
>to breastfeed their child in
>public, since it's an intimate
>moment for both child and
>mother. Some people choose
>to share it with other
>people, others don't. That's
>an invididual and personal decision.

in the us breastfeeding in public is illegal (except maybe in ny?)
personally, i do see breastfeeding as an intimate time, but i don't see it as a time that necessitates seclusion. babies eat a lot of milk at frequent intervals, and oftentimes it's a huge inconvenience not to be able to breastfeed where u are

also personally, i choose not to breastfeed publicly because of the attitude the people around me take toward breasts. my baby likes to spend much of her time looking around, which makes for a lot of exposure time. i am completely comfortable being exposed in front of comfortable people, but don't wanna bare my goods in front of people with adolescent attitudes

so i could maybe get away with illegally breastfeeding, but i choose not to in these surroundings



==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

race/culture? Like, what race of women breastfeed more than the other? That's silly. C'mon now, yall. Yeah, there's a stigma attached and some folks are uncomfortable w/ breastfeeding but those folks come in all shades and from many different backgrounds.
I'm black and I nursed for one year exactly (little teeth and all). It wasn't a problem OR a question for me. We'd decided that nursing would be best so we did what we had to FOR THE BABY. I worked in the evenings for 5 hours per day until my son was 4 months old. His dad worked 8 hours but he worked them around us. We were lucky, somewhat. The pump was futile because most nipples choked my son or he got frustrated w/ them and would cry. He wanted the real deal.

I know MANY black women who nursed as well...w/out a problem. I also know some who looked at me funny and felt uncomfortable around me whenever I nursed but I chalked that up to ignorance, them being uncomfortable with their bodies, laziness, etc.
Ignorance is not just a black thing. Neither is laziness. Right?

>in the us breastfeeding in public
>is illegal (except maybe in
>ny?)

where'd you get this info? I should be in the slammer if this is true. Maybe it's legal in California too? Iono, I just can't see it being illegal and women NOT be in an uproar over it.

>babies
>eat a lot of milk
>at frequent intervals, and oftentimes
>it's a huge inconvenience not
>to be able to breastfeed
>where u are

Exactly. which is why I can't see breastfeeding being illegal. How can it be illegal to nurse/feed your child when they're hungry? Maybe they want us to use those little "mommy & me" bathrooms in the malls instead of the bench all out in the open? What about bus riding mommies? They can't nurse on the busstop?

>also personally, i choose not to
>breastfeed publicly because of the
>attitude the people around me
>take toward breasts. my baby
>likes to spend much of
>her time looking around, which
>makes for a lot of
>exposure time. i am completely
>comfortable being exposed in front
>of comfortable people, but don't
>wanna bare my goods in
>front of people with adolescent
>attitudes

I feel you here. But I could give a damn about those people. Yep, they were around me too but my baby wasn't going to go hungry because of some silly folks feeling uncomfortable. That's not to say that I had my boob all exposed or anything (unless I was around family :-). and even some of them were sheepish). My point is, eff those folks. feed your baby. I did and some of those fuddy-duddy people ended up asking me questions about how to nurse their babies later on down the road. They got over it.

>so i could maybe get away
>with illegally breastfeeding, but i
>choose not to in these
>surroundings

And that's fine, too. the choice is yours. But on a sidenote, I'm sensing frustration from you regarding cultural differences, etc. (remember the black folks and marriage thing? ) It's really none of my business but I don't remember you ever posting this way. You seemed to be such an open minded person and all. *shrug

...to the point where LAWS have to be made to dictate behavior.

find this happening elsewhere...
________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

where are you getting your info? So this is JUST an American thing? How do you know? I think that EVERYWHERE you go there are gonna be some folks who are cool with it and some who are shame. Regardless of their locale.

"I think that EVERYWHERE you go there are gonna be some folks who are cool with it and some who are shame."

-you "THINK". based on your limited view of the world (i.e. what you see around you) you are now universalizing your experience.

i actually "looked" for similar behaviors in other cultures and referenced a book written BY women that tell of the history of breatfeeding and societal and cultural ideas associated with it. only in america were laws passed to limit the behavior... they said that in no other place (outside of western culture) was this stigma attached to breastfeeding.

if you don't agree with it...find SPECIFIC examples of where else this happens in a similar fashion to how it happens here.



________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

>-you "THINK". based on your limited
>view of the world (i.e.
>what you see around you)
>you are now universalizing your
>experience.

I knew as soon as I pressed ENTER that you were going to say something like that.

>i actually "looked" for similar behaviors
>in other cultures and referenced
>a book written BY women
>that tell of the history
>of breatfeeding and societal and
>cultural ideas associated with it.
>only in america were laws
>passed to limit the behavior...
>they said that in no
>other place (outside of western
>culture) was this stigma attached
>to breastfeeding.

ok. that's all i wanted to know. What's the name of that book, by the way? I'd like to check it out.
>if you don't agree with it...find
>SPECIFIC examples of where else
>this happens in a similar
>fashion to how it happens
>here.
>
>
>
>________________________________________________
>"Stay strong! this ain't for the
>faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli
>
>"You gotta DO, fuck that almost
>shit!" -Talib Kweli
>
>"These cats drink champagne and toast
>to death and pain, Like
>slaves on a ship talking
>about who got the flyest
>chain." -Talib Kweli
>
>"C'mon, shine so bright when I
>walk by
>You gotta squint like the motherfucking
>sun in your eye. What!"
>-Talib Kweli
>
>"Medicine is big business so my
>remedies is herbal.
>It's music is for the people
>so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib
>Kweli
>
>"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm
>original and you're like the
>King James version" - Talib
>Kweli

this is not a black/white thing either (If you disagree, show me some numbers) and my whole beef was just that - breastfeeding mothers come in all shades, cultures, backgrounds, etc.

So you say American's are the only ones w/ breastfeeding stigmas. Fine. But it's unfair to divide us like that, saying that black American's are the only ones who are uncomfortable w/ nursing. That's ridiculous.

Breastfeeding is a natural thing, but people have such perverted and screwed up minds they try to argue, and say it should not be done in public. Just relax, and let the mamas feed their babies without stress!

i had to. i think that's what got me to the point of "i have to learn to nurse in public". i never became completely comfortable with it, but crying baby and leaking breasts meant i had to do it.

first time was hard. after that, it got easier.

and i'm not being fair, becasue they're were a lot of people, especially guys i knew, who wanted to know everything about breastfeeding. they asked questions and were proud of me for making that choice. even my mom, who's not into natural anything was surprised and pleased when i decided to breastfeed.

to me, breastfeeding mothers are normal, they just seem to be in some kind of "secret society". once you start talking ot people you find out how many people really have chosen it over formula.


**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

>and i'm not being fair, becasue
>they're were a lot of
>people, especially guys i knew,
>who wanted to know everything
>about breastfeeding. they asked questions
>and were proud of me
>for making that choice. even
>my mom, who's not into
>natural anything was surprised and
>pleased when i decided to
>breastfeed.

Same here. Folks were proud of me and asking questions (even the weirded out folks). My mother is the same way, too. She said she learned so much from my nursing experience. She highly recommends it now. I overheard her telling her neighbors daughter that nursing is the best, her grandson was never sick, yadda, yadda, yadda. I just smiled.
ANother big misconception is that some women think that if they're "heavy chested" they can't nurse. My cousin said that she thought she'd smother her daughter so she never tried. and was too embarrassed to ask. that was 15 years ago and she was a teen mother. I can only imagine how lost and confused she was.

>to me, breastfeeding mothers are normal,
>they just seem to be
>in some kind of "secret
>society". once you start talking
>ot people you find out
>how many people really have
>chosen it over formula.

So true. The Secret Society of Nursing Mothers (SSNM), lol.

Illegal??!! where'd you hear that? It can't be illegal. I'da been in jail, all the malls, parks, etc. I nursed in. I could see women activists all over the country flippin out over that.

http://www.lalecheleague.org/Law/Bills4.html


Breastfeeding & the Law

A Current Summary of Breastfeeding Legislation in the U.S.

A Look at Enacting Breastfeeding Legislation

Breastfeeding Legislation in the United States

Breastfeeding Legislation in Italy

The Breastfeeding Relationship and Visitation Plans

Is Breastfeeding Really a Visitation Issue?

Breastfeeding and Divorce

In the Best Interest of Breastfed Babies

Extended Breastfeeding and the Law

Extended Breastfeeding and the Law (2)

Working It Out:  Breastfeeding at Work

You Can't Call Me for Jury Duty--I'm Breastfeeding!

So I Nursed Him Every 45 Minutes

A Current Summary of Breastfeeding Legislation in the U.S.
By Elizabeth N. Baldwin, Esq., and Kenneth A. Friedman, Esq.

BREASTFEEDING IN PUBLIC

Mothers have a right to breastfeed where they go with their baby, even if that is out in public. It does not matter whether the mother goes to a public or a private place, or even whether they are in a state with legislation. No one has the right to tell a mother how to feed her baby, especially a way that increases the risk of illness to both mother and baby! Legislation has been enacted in nearly one-half of the states in the U.S. because they want to clarify this right, and in some cases, provide a remedy for mothers told to stop breastfeeding. It is hoped that legislation will help to change society's attitudes that breastfeeding is something indecent and should not be done in public. Underlying this, is the goal to increase the rates and duration of breastfeeding recognizing that this is an important health choice that must be encouraged.

Babies need to be breastfed on demand, and mothers should not feel pressured to use bottles. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, babies do not need to have bottles or pacifiers, and even if a mother wants to use these, they are contraindicated until breastfeeding is well established. Early introduction of bottles or pacifiers can put the breastfeeding relationship at risk, as the baby can develop nipple or bottle confusion, often resulting in the baby not being able to correctly nurse. If this happens, the baby may wean, or have such serious difficulties that the mother may need to seek professional help. Would we want even one mother or baby to have an increased risk of illness just because someone doesn't want to see it? Also, using bottles takes away from the convenience of breastfeeding, as the breast it is always ready and available, at the perfect temperature, with no preparation needed. No breastfeeding mother should be told that she should have to use bottles, anymore than a bottle feeding mother should be told that she should be breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is an act of nurture, not something to be hidden. Mothers should be allowed to choose for themselves how they want to feed their baby, and our society should not discourage their choice, especially when it is one that benefits all of us.

It is important to remember that women have a right to breastfeed in public whether there is a law or not. The purpose of legislation is NOT to legalize it, but to clarify the fact the fact that women have the right to breastfeed in public, or that it is not a criminal offense, such as indecent exposure. Thus, if you are in a state that does not have legislation, you still have the right to feed your baby where you go. Breastfeeding legislation often exempts breastfeeding from any criminal statutes, such as amending an indecent exposure or nudity law. More progressive legislation creates a new law that sets forth a woman's right to breastfeed. Some of the laws provide mothers with legal recourse if they are told to stop breastfeeding, such as New York, which has the strongest law in the nation, where a right to breastfeed as one of a person's civil rights was created.

Not only have states enacted legislation, but various cities and counties have amended ordinances, or enacted laws that protect breastfeeding. One of the most notable is the City of Philadelphia, which submitted an ordinance in 1996 that not only prohibited discriminating against breastfeeding mothers, but also prohibited segregating breastfeeding mothers. In response to other states considering allowing establishments to tell mothers where they can breastfeed, they enacted this law to make it clear that such acts are segregation. In 1999, a federal law was enacted that ensures a woman's right to breastfeed her child anywhere on federal property that she has a right to be with her child. As the legal system continues to recognize and encourage breastfeeding, a message is sent to the public at large that breastfeeding is an important issue; one that has an impact on our lives and the futures of our children. But society's views and taboos are not easily changed. Legislation that recognizes the importance of breastfeeding is just one step toward helping our society become more supportive of breastfeeding.




Last edited Wednesday, December 5, 2001 4:59 PM by CRT.



______

"Money isn't real." - BLOW
______

*wipes brow* Thanks! I was about to get all up in arms.

in maryland a few years back. the capital was swarmed with nursing mothers


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

the fact that this:

"Breast-Feeding Best Bet for Babies"

was the title of the article...shows how backwards this place really is. i mean, when your culture gets to a point to where it has to re-educate people on natural instinctual practices... that society has problems.

the west sucks.
________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

It really does go to show how far away we've gotten from our instincts.

Similar to:

-plastic surgery v.s. excercise

-using drugs for healthiness v.s. allowing your immune system to build up.

-communicating with strangers that are unheard and unseen v.s.
communicating with strangers(or even neighbors/co-workers) you can see and or hear.

etc,etc,etc

>-communicating with strangers that are unheard
>and unseen v.s.
>communicating with strangers(or even neighbors/co-workers) you
>can see and or hear.

guilty.


**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

-the west sucks idea: i don't know how/when people's thinking became so backwards about breastfeeding, but the key is not just education, it's like teaching common sense. and how do you do that? i've heard so many non fact based things like "you should not breastfeed if you child eats alot, they will be hungry" even someone on okp said they would not recommend breastfeeding if "your child eats as much as my son did..." not to call this okp out as much as this is something i hear often. if you have a hungry baby, feed it more... breast feeding is on demand... why do people think it is not enough?

-WIC/income: who is on WIC? what are the stats, like isn't it mostly teenage mothers/low income women? i mean income wise, i know i don't qualify... if you are speaking on teenage mothers, the problem with breastfeeding is the problem with pregnancy... if your body is not finished growing yet, your body is fighting with the baby for nutrients. if your breasts are still growing... that's just the physical (we no the mental is complicated). and low income women, if they are working full time pay check to pay check at let's say a factory job... when do they get to pump, or do they get to pump? do they even get paid maternity leave for the first months? also, WIC is realizing that it is perceived as a way to get free formula? they are not supposed to be about formula, but “healthy” eating...

-race/ethnicity/generations: of course this "reintroduction" of breastfeeding seems to be about marketing. it's being sold. like some people have to see things as trendy and such to follow through, and i guess if the ends justify the means... but should we change the minds of grandmothers who think you should give kids cereal when the are two months? many people are still operating on the "it worked for me..." stuff. gripe water and humphries #3? what about the wet nurse issues many of our black grandmothers still have?

-lifestyle: the all or nothing attitude? why breastfeed now only to feed your children meat and dairy later? why breastfeed if i'm not using cloth diapers? or breastfeeding is boho - i don't do yoga, so...? the key is breastfeeding is more than just "nutrition" it's about the overall health of mother and baby. and yeah, maybe breastfeeding (if not pregnancy) will lead you to eat and live "healthier." but if you are not ready...



______

"Money isn't real." - BLOW
______

has been encouraging breastfeeding for a long time. you're right breastfeeding is about helthy eating, and that is what wic's about (from an american standpoint). also breastfeeding is FREE, and formula costs money. so if they're giving out vouchers for formula, of course they'd rather have women breastfeed....less money that they give out.

**********THE SIG**********

"Until you're truly ready to say fuck your fear, you are not alive..."
-Cee Lo 'Rollin'

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

also
>breastfeeding is FREE, and formula
>costs money. so if they're
>giving out vouchers for formula,
>of course they'd rather have
>women breastfeed....less money that they
>give out.

unless their subsidizing the formula industry.
you know, corporate welfare?

well i wouldn't be too surpised if the senators and reps on the ag. committeess (jurisdiction over usda who doles out WIC $s)
are less concerned with the health of low-income women and their babies than they are with lining the pockets of their campaign supporters.

poor women don't get a whole lot out of washington.

>poor women don't get a whole
>lot out of washington.

did not cover soy formulas five years ago...
and i know women who lied about income so they could afford similac...
and sometimes i think it should not be income based, but now we have tax credits...

but i'm glad to see them promoting breastfeeding because this "ups" what they are really about - providing (and educating about) "healthy" foods for mother and baby/child. and in the aisles of the grocery, i see they are adding foods... like it used to just be dairy products cold cuts, crackers and some veggies, but now you see cereals and other milks, tuna and salmon, grain breads, juices...

______

"Money isn't real." - BLOW
______

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

-k-

There is bad head. I have stopped girls before like, "that's ok". There is also mediocre head and wack head too.

- all i need to know, i learned in kindergarten, by TripleX

I was confused about that loud crashing sound I heard last week, now I realize it was just my ideological glass wall being shattered by your trenchant observations.

- johnny_domino to his new spiritual advisor, Expertise

If you wanted to raise your child as a Vegan, would you breast feed him/her?

After all, isn't Cow Milk and Human Breast Milk produced by a similar biological process and aren't the two things chemically similar?





Peace,





M2

my question for vegans is: what do you use as an alternative to lanolin?


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

it goes something like - "cow's milk is for calves..."
breastmilk if made of the kinds of proteins suitable human infants' easy digestion and absorption of nutrients...

erykah badu spoke on being a vegan and breastfeeding... her diet, as well as andre's was organic vegan, she breastfeed and considered her son to be an "organic baby" form conception... lisa bonet said something similar, way back...

(random links)
http://www.andrews.edu/NUFS/Vegan%20Children.html
http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/celebrity_update.html
http://www.babycenter.com/general/baby/babybreastfeed/8785.html

(aslo, ask el-rey?)


______

"Money isn't real." - BLOW
______

why don't feel comfortable breastfeeding in public unless i'm well covered?

i was well reminded of this when someone tried to cop a feel at a funeral yesterday

man there are sum tactless and disgusting people out there


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

the hand reaching under my arm and swiping my breasts ever so softly as i spoke with the family about cleaning out my friends place?

or about my timidity?


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

*it's monday*

"i was well reminded of this when someone tried to cop a feel at a funeral yesterday"

-i thought this was in reference to some adult or adolescent teen or somethin'

...then i remembered who else it could be.

on a lighter note. i found the yarn for your bag! this is truly gonna be some of my best work. don't be surprised if i request a few dozen modeled pics of the bag! :)


________________________________________________
"Stay strong! this ain't for the faint hearted!" -Talib Kweli

"You gotta DO, fuck that almost shit!" -Talib Kweli

"These cats drink champagne and toast to death and pain, Like slaves on a ship talking about who got the flyest chain." -Talib Kweli

"C'mon, shine so bright when I walk by
You gotta squint like the motherfucking sun in your eye. What!" -Talib Kweli

"Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal.
It's music is for the people so we Reflection Eternal" -Talib Kweli

"Cursing me like Ham, cuz I'm original and you're like the King James version" - Talib Kweli

heheh

well, i suppose we cd get pics developed online.............

i'm so excited. i showed my husband the pics of 360's bag, and he loved it


==**peace**==

"the skilled binder uses no strings or knots, while to unloose what he has bound would be impossible." Lao Tzu

"This 'One Love' chant has been more misused than Jamie Foxx airtime." DanjaRuss

DomePoem Poets; redefining the third dimension of spoken word

i don't know who to e-mail...

-k-

There is bad head. I have stopped girls before like, "that's ok". There is also mediocre head and wack head too.

- all i need to know, i learned in kindergarten, by TripleX

I was confused about that loud crashing sound I heard last week, now I realize it was just my ideological glass wall being shattered by your trenchant observations.

- johnny_domino to his new spiritual advisor, Expertise