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Topic subjectRE: Let me tell you why Acts 5:3,4 is irrelevant:
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=693&mesg_id=817
817, RE: Let me tell you why Acts 5:3,4 is irrelevant:
Posted by osoclasi, Fri May-21-04 07:21 AM
>Yes Ananias "lied" or "played false" to the holy spirit, and
>that was just like lying to God. SO WHAT?

Response: Because to the Holy Spirit is not *Like* lying to God it is lying to God. You added *like* to the passage, it is not there.

Is that supposed
>to be a point? If you call my ANSWERING MACHINE, and leave
>a message that is an outright lie, you didn't speak to ME,
>you spoke to my ANSWERING MACHINE. But it's just like you
>lied to ME because I will get the false message that you
>left. Agreed? But that in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM means
>that ME and the ANSWERING MACHINE ARE ONE IN THE SAME!!!
>Acts 5:3,4 is a NON-FACTOR in this discussion.

Response; To bad they did not have answering machines back then, and you don't lie to an answering maching, since the message is intended for you, you can lie on an answering maching, but the lie is directed towards you. So this verse is a huge factor to this discussion.
>
>So the question is, "Does the Bible teach that the holy
>spirit is a person?

Response: Absolutely, for Paul tells us that the Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf, forces do not intercede.

Romans 8:26
In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;


While Jesus did refer to the holy
>spirit as a "helper"(Greek:"para'kletos") or "comforter",
>that doesn't mean that it is a "person". In a bunch of
>places the Bible says that people were "filled", "baptized",
>or "anointed" with holy spirit. (Luke 1:41; Matthew 3:11;
>Acts 10:38) These references DON'T FIT A PERSON. When the
>holy spirit is personified it is only a figure of speech.

Response: Again, Spirits do not intercede nor are they grieved, nor do they groan with expression to deep for words.

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

>The Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, blood,
>etc. Not ONE PERSON says that "sin" is a person, or that
>"water" is a person, or that the quality of "wisdom" is a
>person...but trinitarians take a verse where holy spirit is
>personified and run with it IN YET ANOTHER OBVIOUS PLOY TO
>PROVE THIS PAGAN DOCTRINE.

Response: Not at all, because non of those things you listed intercede and know teh thoughts of God.
>
>The Bible tells us the PERSONAL name of God, and it tells us
>the PERSONAL name of God's Son. But ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE DOES
>THE BIBLE GIVE HOLY SPIRIT A PERSONAL NAME. If holy spirit
>is such an important "person" in the trinity, why is it not
>named? BECAUSE IT IS NOT A PERSON.

Response: Holy Spirit is a name, so is advocate or helper.
>
>Another point that comes to mind is at Acts 7:55,56, here
>Stephen saw "Jesus standing at God's right hand." WHY
>DIDN'T MENTION SEEING THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Response: Because the Holy Spirit was empowering him to see the Father and Son.
>