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Topic subjectRE: not at all..
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=693&mesg_id=771
771, RE: not at all..
Posted by osoclasi, Sat May-29-04 12:10 AM
I got to run to class (no not Greek) so I can only answer a couple of these but I will be back later on, I have to celebrate my birthday that past recently, so if my wife (that is not a bad thing) does not take up all my time I can be back as early as this afternoon or later on this evening. depends
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>Reply11: That is nothing more than a temporal distinction.
>Not really an issue in personification. If this was an
>issue, nobody could ever personify any attribute.

Response: If Christ is just a personifier, then he really is not wisdom the attribute, he is just a role player. Who throws on a shakespere wig and plays the role.
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>Reply11: Only temporally different. Not an issue in
>personification.

Response: Again Christ is not the attribute, therefore Christ is not wisdom,he is just an actor or a personifyer as you call it
>>
>Reply11: Well Wisdom is Wisdom. There are not different
>Wisdoms. Prov 8 is obvious the wisdom of God, for it is the
>worker in creation. Christ is called the wisdom of God.
>Christ is the intermediate agent in creation. I don't see a
>force here. I see parallels.

Response: Well if Wisdom is wisdom and Christ is wisdom then wisdom was created, if wisdom is wisdom and Christ only personifyes it, then Christ is not wisdom (the attribute) he is just a personifyer.
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>Reply11: A temporal limitation on Christ does not stop him
>from personifying the attribute, especially in light of the
>wisdom (as an attribute) fully dwelling in him.

Response: Then Christ is not really wisdom, he is not the attribute he is not really wisdom at all, he is just an actor. So it is inaccurate to call him wisdom.

>
>Reply11: A temporal distinction does not make something
>infinite. Again, I reference you to Col 2:3. If Christ can
>be filled with ALL the treasures of wisdom, obviously he can
>personify it.

Response: Ok, so according to you he is not wisdom? He is just a personification of it? And if that is so wisdom in Proverbs 8 really is not wisdom either.
>>Reply11: The parallels between Christ and Wisdom can't be
>missed.

Response: Unless there is different context involved. Context drives the meaning of the word, and 1 Cor is not where near Prov 8. They are'nt even the same genre.
>>Reply11: In light of ALL wisdom being in Christ, he
>absolutely can.

Response: Then he is not really wisdom.
>
>Reply11: Has nothing to do with it. Wisdom is
>grammatically feminine.

REsponse: Well let me double check that one later in the week, but Christ still is not wisdom according to you. So when Solomon said get wisdom, was he saying get God's attribute or get Christ?
>>Reply11: Yes, root, but not the same form. What is the use
>of ARCH vs. ARCWN. There is a difference. Start searching
>the LXX and NT, you'll see it.

Response: Wallace on page 114 has Rev 3:14 (see the cf part) as a subjective genitive, if this is so then it really means that Christ is not created at all, but rather the beginner. And that fits with Col 1:16 and John 1:3 because even though he is an intermediater he is still the one starting the creation. And that fits well within the context.

arxe tes ktiseos tou theou

Beginning of the creation of God but tou theou is the subject

God's creation began, but in reference to a person it is

God's creation beginner
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>Reply11: Well, if we look at the writings that the reader
>had available (the GNT and the LXX), we get a general
>picture of what would go on in their head. Ruler is not
>very probable when a statistical analysis is made.

Response: as a subjective gentitive it is.