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Topic subjectyou are ignoring the context of 1 Cor
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=693&mesg_id=761
761, you are ignoring the context of 1 Cor
Posted by osoclasi, Fri May-28-04 01:15 AM
>Reply6: First of all, NOBODY IS PERSONIFYING A PERSON!
>Come on sheesh.

Response: Good so we agree that wisdom is nor personifying Christ a person, good, took a while to convince you.

Stop building straw man arguments! You
>keep claiming a contextual different, but you've thus far
>failed to demonstrate such. Try DEMONSTRATING THE
>DIFFERENCE. Christ is called the Wisdom of God. Not the
>Wisdom regarding salvation from God. Your position
>completely fails.

Response: You ignore the context of 1 Cor 1:26-31, lets look shall we. THe difference is that Christ is the wisdom unto salvation while Proverbs uses wisdom to living a godly life.

v26 "for considering your calling brethern..."

So we see here that Paul is discussing their calling meaning their salvation. No illusion to Proverbs at all.

vs 27 But God has chosen the foolish things in the world to shame the wise...

Here again Paul still discussing salvation, not proverbs 8.

vs 28. And these things the world has despised....

vs29. so that no man can boast before God...

Boast of what? Their salvation,therefore v 30 Christ is the wisdom of GOd in righteouness, santification etc.

THere is the difference TOny simply context.
>>Reply6: I am actually following Christ, who referenced
>himself as Wisdom speaking (we noted the parallel passages)
>and Paul who called Christ God's Wisdom.

Response: I ask about Proverbs 8 and you jump to the NT, tss, tss. Christ did not even mention proverbs 8, and I have illustrated already what Paul meant when calling Christ wisdom vs what SOlomon was doing, and the parallel passages were between luke and matthew not proverbs. Now show me from the text of proverbs that Christ is personifying it.

Understanding
>this, as the ANF did, we make the connection... also the
>attribute of Wisdom is never created, Prov 8:22 has
>personified Wisdom created first, ala Rev 3:14.

Response:ANF also believe in baptism unto salvation and used allegorical method. If the attribute wisdom is Christ is never created then that would make him God. ANd Rev 3:14 has absolutely nothing to do with Proverbs 8, besides being forced into it by you.
>
>Reply6: The attribute is personified BEFORE we claim a
>person is the personifier. Unless there is a
>personfication, there can be no personifier. It helps a lot
>to use basic logic instead of arguing just to argue.

Response: And it also helps to be consistant, if God by his wisdom did something and wisdom is a person, then understanding and knowledge should be persons as well.
>>Reply6: And Wisdom is done so using the MASCULINE, not the
>FEMININE. Why did Solomon use AMON instead of AMONAH, if
>the NATURAL gender is not masculine?

Response: Because titles don't matter when applying it to a type of work or job she is doing. SHe is as an architect, the whether the title of the job is feminine or masculine does not matter.
>
>Reply6: Again, empty opinion. I've provided evidence for
>my position, but theologically, you MUST not accept it, even
>though it stands totally in the face of your position.

Response:Well I have lexical support as well, so it is not an empty opinion.

arche p138 of BADG says " an authority figure who iniates activity or process, ruler, authority.
>Reply: Actually, it does not. It means first, in time or
>priority. To be a ruler, the term typically used is ARCWN.
>Here are some examples:

Response: Here is some other examples.

LUke 12:11 the synagouges and the rulers and the authorities...

kai tas arkas tas ezousias...

Titus 3:1, Romans 8:38,1 Cor 15:24,Eph 1:21,3:10;6:12, Col 1:16;2:10,15. So I have plenty of support.
>
>>Reply6: Yes, it does, but it is the masculine AMON instead
>of the feminine AMONAH. Why is this if Wisdom's NATURAL
>gender is not masculine?

Response: Becuase in relation to job titles or descriptoins of vocation it does not matter, especially since Wisdom is called a she throughout all 9 chapters,unless you want to argue for a sex change or soemthing.
>
>Regards.
>Tony