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Forum nameOkay Activist Archives
Topic subjectRE: Christ as Wisdom
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=693&mesg_id=751
751, RE: Christ as Wisdom
Posted by osoclasi, Wed May-26-04 06:36 AM
>Reply: Wisdom is the one identified as understanding in
>Prov 8:14. Knowledge is never personified, so it is not an
>issue. Yes, you do not peronify people, but people
>personify things, and Jesus is the personifier of wisdom.

Response: Bad arguement you cannot just pick and chose when you want to start personifing things, if by wisdom God performed some acts and wisdom is a person, then guess what you need to explain who are knowledge and understanding. And people cannot become personifiers I think you made up something there. YOu personify inanimate objects such as rivers,rocks etc, not people. Clealy, your theology is driving you to this conclusion.
>
>Regarding Wisdom being a she, that is only because CHOKMAH
>is feminine in Hebrew. Is Solomon a she because he is
>called congregator, which is feminine in Hebrew?

Response: Ahh but here is the difference, Solomon is never refered to by a personal pronoun *she* wisdom is. Sorry.

Or how
>about Naphtali who in Genesis 49:21 is called a female deer
>who produces fawns!? Rather, we know the one spoken of in
>Proverbs 8, though grammatically is feminine, has a natural
>masculine gender. We know this because in verse 30, the
>masculine AMON is used instead of the feminine AMONAH, where
>Wisdom is called either little child or master worker,
>depending on the translation (either are possible).

Response: Titles can be feminine but Naphtali is not called her, or she or anything like wisdom is. By the way proverbs tells us that wisdom stands on the corner and shouts in the streets did Christ do this? And when it says to obtain wisdom are we to go grab Christ? and as far as it having a masculine gender does that mean now that Christ was both feminine and masculine at the same time? And are understanding and knowledge Peter and JOhn or are they Mark and Luke maybe they are Gabriel.

>Reply: Let us see if that holds true.

Response: Before I respond to the bottom, I notice that you said let's see if it holds true but did not address the context of 1 Cor, that should be how we know if it holds true, but oh well. Guess I'll do that tonight when I get my Bible.
>
>The Word was in the beginning (John 1:1)
>Wisdom was in the beginning (Prov. 8:22-23, Sir. 1:4, Wis.
>9:9)

Response: Actually in Proverbs it says that the wisdom was at teh beginnign of God's ways, JOhn 1:1 does not say such. By the way should'nt there at least be a quote from John 1:1 of Proverbs 8?

>The Word was with God (John 1:1)

>Wisdom was with God (Prov. 8:30, Sir. 1:1, Wis. 9:4)
>The Word is an agent in creation (John 1:1-3)

Response: And wisdom was also a girl standing on a street corner.

>The Word provides light (John 1:4, 9)
>Wisdom provides light (Prov. 8:22, Wis. 7:26, 8:13; Sir.
>4:12)

Response: Actually the Logos was the light itself and it also provided light wisdom is nto the light itself.

>Word as light in contrast to darkness (John 1:5)
>Wisdom as light in contrast to darkness (Wis. 7:29-30)
>The Word was in the world (John 1:10)

Response; Whatever book Wis is I probably don't hold it to be canonical, sorry. Need to stay inbounds here. ANd before you start argueing about some book being canonical let's hold it till later.


>Wisdom was in the world (Wis. 8:1, Sir. 24:6)

Response: Sorry I don't know what WIS and SIR are, unless those are Hebrew titles, and i am without my BHS until I get home.

>The Word was rejected by its own (John 1:11)
>Wisdom was rejected by its own (Sir. 15:7)
>The Word was received by the faithful (John 1:12)
>Wisdom was received by the faithful (Wis. 7:27)

Response: Buzz, out of scripture, unless those are Hebrew titles those are not regarded as canonical.

>Christ is the bread of life (John 6:35)
>Wisdom is the bread or substance of life (Prov. 9:5, Sir.
>15:3, 24:21, 29:21; Wis. 11:4)

Response: In Prov 9 Wisdom is also a girl. and SIr and wis, well ya know the rest.

>The parallels between Jesus and Wisdom cannot be missed.

Respnose: Sure there are'nt any. By the way I erased the rest because I keep having the same answers if there one you really want me to respond to put it back up. Especially when I have my Bible in front of me.