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Topic subjectanswer to John 20:17.
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=693&mesg_id=726
726, answer to John 20:17.
Posted by osoclasi, Fri May-21-04 03:50 AM
>"Jesus said to her, 'Don't touch me, for I haven't yet
>ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them,
>'I am ascending to MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, TO MY GOD AND
>YOUR GOD.'" John 20:17

Response: The arguement is simple if Jesus can speak of His God, then He can't really be God, but must be something less (i.e a creature) who is called God but only in a "sort of fashion". Here is a maxim that needs to be addressed

" Difference in function does not indicate inferiority in nature or Being." Here the Father is described as Jesus' God. Since this is so, Jesus must be some sort of inferior being but go down a couple for verses to John 20:28.

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Here Thomas calls Jesus his Lord and his God, of course many will want to say that Thomas was swearing, the problem is that Thomas would not dare swear to his rabbi, while his rabbi was standing in front of him, nor would his rabbi condone such actions like Jesus does in the next verse.

John 20:29
Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

All John 20:17 is demonstrating is the fact that the Son is different than the Father. It was the Son who became incarnate, and since the Son, as the perfect man, acknowledged the Father as His God, He, himself, can't be fully deity. The arguement assumes that God could never enter human form. Why? Well, what would the Godman be like? If one person entered into human flesh, how would such a divine person act? Would he be an atheist and not acknowledge the other persons? No of course not, Jesus acts like we would expect him too.

Thomas recognized that Christ was fully God, and just because Jesus (keep in mind he was human) acknowledges his Father as being his God, many want to use this as an arguement against his own deity, however, Jesus is acting like we would expect him to as God-man.
>
>does god pray to himself, or worship himself too?

Response: No but all of creation worships him along with the Father.

Revelation 5:13
And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."

So if all of creation can worship him so can we.
>
>And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good* Master, what
>good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
>Matthew 19:16
>
>And he said unto him, WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD? THERE IS
>NONE GOOD BUT ONE, that is, GOD: but if thou wilt enter into
>life, keep the commandments.
>Matthew 19:17
>
>and there again is the command to keep the commandments
>which Paul, and not Jesus, tries to put away...

Response; The problem is that Jesus never says that he is not good, he is simply asking the ruler why are you calling me this? he is checking the implications of such a statement.
>
>the Gospel accounts make it abundantly clear that Jesus was
>a man; who hungered, thirsted, slept, grew weary and so on
>and so forth. Jesus is referred to therein several times as
>a man, and over fifty times as the "Son of Man."

Response: Well he was a man, and he was also God.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


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