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Topic subjectWhat is power?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=22&topic_id=665
665, What is power?
Posted by Nettrice, Sat Jul-03-04 02:39 AM
Folks keep bringing it up but nobody is defining it. Supremacy, racism, sexism, etc. Well, IMHO the common denominator is power but what does that mean? How does that influence the way things work or how we should go about bringing about change?
666, Differences
Posted by Nettrice, Sat Jul-03-04 02:50 AM
From http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Power_(sociology):
"Sociologists usually define power as the ability to impose one's will on others, even if those others resist in some way.

'By power is meant that opportunity existing within a social relationship which permits one to carry out one's own will even against resistance and regardless of the basis on which this opportunity rests.'
Max Weber, Basic Concepts in Sociology

The imposition need not involve coercion (force or threat of force). Thus "power" in the sociological sense subsumes both physical power and political power. In some ways it more closely resembles what everyday English-speakers call 'influence'.

More generally, one could define 'power' as the real or perceived ability or potential to bring about significant change, usually in people’s lives, through the actions of oneself or of others.

The exercise of power seems endemic to humans as social and gregarious beings."

Well, to me this really does not explain spiritual power. Many social, political and physical people are not spiritual beings. However, there are some people who, despite the circumstances, feel a sense of power over their own lives. Even in the midst of events, some people are centered and at peace.

Next up: Learned Helplessness vs Empowerment
667, RE: What is power?
Posted by hip bopper, Sat Jul-03-04 03:17 AM
>Folks keep bringing it up but nobody is defining it.
>Supremacy, racism, sexism, etc. Well, IMHO the common
>denominator is power but what does that mean? How does that
>influence the way things work or how we should go about
>bringing about change?


to me power comes with service. some tend to think that if you rule with an iron fist you have power when in reality you create fear for those around you. if you look at people like malcolm, martin, and ghandi they were willing to serve those who were around them and became powerful because of their service to others. Jesus was the ultimate example of service as he served those around Him, and he was able to draw people because of what he did for them.
668, RE: What is power?
Posted by Kozmikblak, Sat Jul-03-04 03:46 AM
>>Folks keep bringing it up but nobody is defining it.
>>Supremacy, racism, sexism, etc. Well, IMHO the common
>>denominator is power but what does that mean? How does that
>>influence the way things work or how we should go about
>>bringing about change?
>
>
>to me power comes with service. some tend to think that if
>you rule with an iron fist you have power when in reality
>you create fear for those around you. if you look at people
>like malcolm, martin, and ghandi they were willing to serve
>those who were around them and became powerful because of
>their service to others. Jesus was the ultimate example of
>service as he served those around Him, and he was able to
>draw people because of what he did for them.

I feel what you are saying about service to others.

But, at the risk of going off on a tangent you lump Ghandi, Malcolm, and Martin in the same category with Jesus. I'm curious as to why you state Jesus was the ultimate example. All the people you mentioned all gave their lives to the service of others.

-------------------------

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669, RE: What is power?
Posted by hip bopper, Sun Jul-04-04 07:11 AM
>I feel what you are saying about service to others.
>
>But, at the risk of going off on a tangent you lump Ghandi,
>Malcolm, and Martin in the same category with Jesus. I'm
>curious as to why you state Jesus was the ultimate example.
>All the people you mentioned all gave their lives to the
>service of others.

i say that Jesus was the ultimate example because he spent his life serving others and it is His example that we should follow. i lumped ghandi, martin, and malcolm with Jesus because they were servants to the people of their day. this does not mean that they were perfect men, but they were powerful because they served.

670, Service
Posted by Nettrice, Sat Jul-03-04 04:17 AM
>to me power comes with service. some tend to think that if
>you rule with an iron fist you have power when in reality
>you create fear for those around you. if you look at people
>like malcolm, martin, and ghandi they were willing to serve
>those who were around them and became powerful because of
>their service to them

I agree here. Service is something that is a part of any activist's work. As it relates to empowerment, people who have authentic power also give some of it to others. Otherwise, they must rely on charm or intimidation but none of these things are real.
671, Power is tricky thing. U wanna go by the websters? n/
Posted by FireBrand, Sat Jul-03-04 06:16 AM
Avi? Go on head now Mr. Cosby...






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672, RE: What is power?
Posted by guest, Sat Jul-03-04 06:40 AM
whadup nettrice, i'll give you a simplified answer...
power is knowlegde.
knowing your possibilities as well as your limits.
if you share this with fellow human beings, than you're helping the advancement of humanity
but if you use this knowlegde for your own ulterior motives, then you are truly a devil in flesh, a bloodsucker of the poor, and so on.
godblessyougwurl
673, It is as simple as this
Posted by Taharka, Sat Jul-03-04 08:01 AM
something with the ability to reward or punish.
674, RE: What is power?
Posted by urthanheaven, Sat Jul-03-04 01:50 PM
the ability to manipulate one's environment. or the lack of need to do so?

power over self power over others. it seems power is related to control. whatever has control has power. but control works both ways. just like what we own, owns us.

so power is a tricky construct. i'll take it in terms of energy. my blender needs energy to turn the motor to turn the blade to make the smoothie. power is the ability to manipulate one's environment. leverage. etc.

so in terms to an un asked question... knowledge equals leverage equals the amplification or thbe realisation of power. our ancestors and others such as some tibetan monks are said to be holding the planet together using the innerverse 'as on earth so in heaven' power. one little peice of well placed black mail can topple a governing official. therefore i believe that each human being is born with the same amount of power. knowledge of ones situatiuon and self gives one infinite power.

each life as far as an individual 1st person movie is different so you have relative definitions of power in what a person desires to manipulate.

i believe we are all equal. because we all live our lives from the same individual 1st person veiw. our highs and lows are gages relatively to eachother and no one would trully understand what it's like to be in another persons shoes because to do that you'd have to not be you. and since youd be them you couldn't be aware of being someone else... conjecture.

anyways, some of that is my logic on power. chinese say that chi is everywhere in everything but gong is the ability to manipulate that chi. so chi would be the even amount of power that we all have and gong would be the leverage or true/physical power that we can manifest with knowledge.


675, power = work/time n/m
Posted by k_orr, Sat Jul-03-04 01:54 PM

676, The ability to get things done despite...
Posted by Intelligently95, Sat Jul-03-04 02:38 PM
the resistance & or opposition
of others.

Power is also the ability to determine/
control the quality & outcome of a situation.

Change is contigent upon awareness and
the percentage of dis-satisfaction outweighing
the percentage of satisfaction w/whatever
situation is deemed "necessary" to change.
677, Two definitions: one true, one false
Posted by Francirevolutionara, Sat Jul-03-04 05:38 PM
The way the world views the power is about having high positions, having contacts, influencing and controling the rest.... That is the false definition.

Power means to be able to control your own demons.

Power means to give back to the world. One who has the power has the ability to forgive. Power is the ability to fight that part of you who says "this is not worth it, why should I bother?". It means to fight the councioussness to not become lethargic, apathetic, indiferent, ignorant, biased, hateful, illiterate. Power means to refuse to become another particle in the "masses".
678, So there really is no one definition?
Posted by Nettrice, Sat Jul-03-04 07:28 PM
For some power is fleeting, external or out of reach. For others, power is attainable and real. It is internal as well as external.

People (including myself) toss around the word "power" but there is no common agreement on what it is...except for the people who have it.

IMHO power means having the ability or freedom to do something or the ability to manifest something...to act. Powerful people are not inactive unless they choose to be, they are not easily led or swayed. Authentic power is the knowledge that there is a purpose and act with intention. Thus, to me it is clear that:

service=action
knowledge (of one's situation)=action
reward and punish=action
manipulation and control=action
work...get me?

If we can agree that action is a key to power, having the ability or freedom to make something happen, then maybe we can also agree that some people have access to this key more than others? Why do some people--given equal resources and opportunities--overcome and succeed and others just give up?
679, RE: So there really is no one definition?
Posted by Francirevolutionara, Mon Jul-05-04 06:25 PM
It is internal as
>well as external.

>
>If we can agree that action is a key to power, having the
>ability or freedom to make something happen, then maybe we
>can also agree that some people have access to this key more
>than others? Why do some people--given equal resources and
>opportunities--overcome and succeed and others just give up?

It might be related to the characteristics of an individual. Some might not give up on their own wishes, but forced to.
If we say a teacher has the power to influence his/her students that can be based on dedication, performances, open-mindness and such. If one individual has the power in herself/himself to act to change things, in that arena the enemy is the compromise. If an individual believes that ideology itself can change and affect people, and that person is kicked out of the system....is that person just giving up or becomes a victim?

I think the system or the environment in which the individual works and acts, it is probably the most important factor. Those outside scenarios can be a party, an organization, a community group etc. the system can work towards the individual or not. so i guess what i am saying is that the system can allow/not allow the individual to exercise his/her power.

680, simple political science definition
Posted by rogue_scholar, Sat Jul-03-04 07:51 PM
power is the ability or means to secure what is in one's interest.

basically, it's being able to do something or have something done that results in getting what you want or need.


**************
rS

--Any belief worth having must survive doubt--
681, Power
Posted by Solarus, Sun Jul-04-04 10:02 AM
Power= the ability to define one's reality.

Through this definition, the statement "Black people can't be racist" is understood by the fact that on a larger societal level, black people exist in realm of social institutions not defined by them but someone else's cultural worldview. On a personal level we can all argue that every person engages in a bit of self-definition. However this self-definition must be seen in the same light that the law sees statutory rape or sexual harassment in the workplace.

While the female and/or minor maybe a willing participant in a sexual relationship with the other person involved, it is understood that the other is in a predetermined, predefined position of power. Being older, male or an authority figure gives one more say in defining the reality of a subordinate.

The institution is defined by a particular group's worldviews and beliefs, in order to determine the further defining capabilities of the people living within that institution. Thus there are many levels of power that eventually trickle down to that individual.

Unfortunately many Black people still believe that changing their names, is enough to take back that power.

We have a long way to go...
682, Changing our names is a proper (re)action...
Posted by Intelligently95, Mon Jul-05-04 04:14 AM
in the direction for power though.

That's not all there is to it
ofcourse...other than that, I
concur w/your analysis...Peace
Solarus
683, I've read this before
Posted by Nettrice, Mon Jul-05-04 04:36 PM
>Power= the ability to define one's reality.

Maybe this was from you. :-) Anyway, I agree with the premise. I read somewhere else that it was about mastering one's own dream or destiny (Don Miguel Ruiz).
684, of course there is no 1 definition-- depends on CONTEXT
Posted by Zorasmoon, Mon Jul-05-04 07:38 AM
on one hand "power" can be described as access to resources
(even maintaining exclusivity to those resources through threat of physical force)

"Power" can also be described as knowing how to use one's knowledge...

A more interesting question, imo, would be why do certain people (racially, gender) appear to desire "power" more than others?
How is the pursuit of "power" perceived culturally?
What are the (social, cultural) barriers of attaining and redefining "power"? What is the future of "power"?

This is what is of real interest to me.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




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685, RE: of course there is no 1 definition-- depends on CON
Posted by GdChil1, Mon Jul-05-04 03:50 PM

>A more interesting question, imo, would be why do certain
>people (racially, gender) appear to desire "power" more than
>others?


No matter what sect/classification, everyone in some way, shape or form desires true power. Wether it be authorative "power", "power" over one's self, influential "power", political "power"; I believe it's wrought into our existence.



>How is the pursuit of "power" perceived culturally?


Depends on what culture we're talking and weather or not we're breaking it down into social-economic categories as well. Black vs. White vs. Gay vs. Straight vs. Western vs. Eastern cultures can all be perceived entirely differently or alike, just depends on you perspective.


>What are the (social, cultural) barriers of attaining and
>redefining "power"? What is the future of "power"?


IMO one can never attain "true" power because we are born mortal, with mortal tendancies and flaws, temptation, guilt, lust, pride, sucess, greed, love, hate and ultimately death. One can reach to attain "fools" power. The future of power will be the same as the past of power, just with different players and parameters, always contingent upon the pursuit of happiness and perfection in one's life.
>
>This is what is of real interest to me.
>
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>No person is your friend who demands your silence, or denies
>your right to grow. -- Alice Walker ..Humanist of the year
>1997
>
>
>"a fuel efficient hummer"
>thats like having a pimp who supports the womens right
>movement. © okp imperial
>
>
>
>
>
>
>online OKPMEN
>2004 calendar>
>
>"Heidi Fleiss of OKP" -eclipsedini
>
>

686, wow. ..
Posted by Zorasmoon, Mon Jul-05-04 07:42 PM
the mysteries of the universe have just been revealed.

amazing.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




No person is your friend who demands your silence, or denies your right to grow. -- Alice Walker ..Humanist of the year 1997


"a fuel efficient hummer"
thats like having a pimp who supports the womens right movement. © okp imperial








"Heidi Fleiss of OKP" -eclipsedini





687, I agree
Posted by Nettrice, Mon Jul-05-04 04:39 PM
but I do think is is as simple as "the ability to define one's reality". I'd also add "and be able to act on this".

More later...
688, That one is easy Power=Money....
Posted by Yank, Mon Jul-05-04 05:04 PM
"I care not of a country's laws as long as I can control their money"

-John D. Rockefeller Sr
689, power comes in many forms
Posted by jahlove7, Mon Jul-05-04 06:37 PM
but it starts with self-empowerment. that's first and foremost.
690, up....
Posted by Francirevolutionara, Tue Jul-06-04 05:53 PM
......................................
691, Self-Efficacy
Posted by Nettrice, Tue Jul-06-04 06:16 PM
"The belief in your mastery over your life and your ability to meet challenges as they arise is what psychologists call self-efficacy--it's yourself being effective." - Adversity Quotient by Paul Stoltz

Many folks are taught all their lives that power is external to them, outside of themselves. They are taught that they are helpless. One of the greatest things that happened to me as a young teen was overcoming depression...helplessness. Early intervention from the adults around me helped me develop as a person and I was able to bounce back.

Sometimes all it takes is the belief that people can control their own lives, rewards, punishments, etc. Research shows that these people are more resilient and less likely to feel powerless about situations. In this case, power is internal, enduring, ever present.
692, RE: Self-Efficacy
Posted by Francirevolutionara, Tue Jul-06-04 06:40 PM
>"The belief in your mastery over your life and your ability
>to meet challenges as they arise is what psychologists call
>self-efficacy--it's yourself being effective." - Adversity
>Quotient by Paul Stoltz

I think that depends a lot of an individual goals in life. Basically , what exactly is he/she tries to achieve. As a common ground, most people want to live ok. they do not want to struggle. BUT are they contributing to the well being of the society, or are just using any methods possible to achieve what they want?
For myself it is more like "this can't be it", "am I going to live 80 years (?) just for this?", "i have to do more".

>
>Many folks are taught all their lives that power is external
>to them, outside of themselves.

That it is so true. silly example: my parents, mostly my mother, wanted me to pursue some carrers that in their mind will bring in some position of power, or being able to control my life and not struggling. My opinion is much different than that. i think expanding my education and knowledge, like intermedia sculpture, made me more confident and gave me more power in my self.
power is within.

They are taught that they
>are helpless. One of the greatest things that happened to
>me as a young teen was overcoming depression...helplessness.
> Early intervention from the adults around me helped me
>develop as a person and I was able to bounce back.
>
>Sometimes all it takes is the belief that people can control
>their own lives, rewards, punishments, etc. Research shows
>that these people are more resilient and less likely to feel
>powerless about situations. In this case, power is
>internal, enduring, ever present.