>
>>White men are the ones you USUALLY see supporting feminism, and >striving to be more 'in touch w/ their feminine side', because >they know they already HAVE THE POWER in society.
>
>They do but not completely though. In the beginning it was
>for selfish reasons such as the sexual freedom aspect of it
>and that most early feminists were white and upper class.
>But I see what you are saying. But I think that we have two
>different cultures and that thsi idea of machismo is
>perpetuated by black men and women. If we continue to
>say...yea work from the background that is powerful. You
>know he has issues so treat him "special," that is not
>dealing with the real problem, it is just perpetuating it.


I am not saying that women should work from the background in "The Movement". I'm talking about in RELATING to them, in relationships. Clearly, more women need to be @ the table when there is coalition-building, and strategizing going on. In relationships w/ them though, what purpose does it serve to go toe-to-toe w/ them, in a verbal contest? This post is a perfect example. This LionelZeus, say he is a Brothah(I'm not sure, cuz there are a lot of white males on Activist who pretend to be Black, which is interesting psychologically, but I'll not digress...). His point-of-view on this issue is REALLY skewed. Just like the Brothah in the workshop I attended, w/ his 3 or 4 girlfriends, whom he admittedly cheats on. Should I argue back-and-forth w/ these 'Brothahs', until they agree w/ me? No. I can express my pov, and keep moving. Or, I can live by example, and let them sit back, and notice. THAT is exertion of a quiet power. I learned how much this effects Brothahs from, yep, you guessedit: a BROTHAH. My sister's friend and I were talking bout Brothahs who date/marry white, because I was perplexed over why Brothahs get upset when Sistahs do the same thing(I just listened to a Brothah call into a radio station last week, who ADMITTEDLY is in an interracial marriage, state he "does double takes" when he sees Sistahs in couples w/ white men). My sister's friend was like, "WHATEVER we do, we do to get Sistah's attention. Brothahs might not even KNOW why they do alot of the things they do, but it ultimately is to get the attention of the Sistahs-INCLUDING when we date/marry white. So to get you all's attention, we have to constantly watch you, to determine your reaction to what we do. " I learned from that exchange, that if that is indeed true, Sistahs are @ a vantage point where they can educate, revolutionize, or whatever you want to call it, by simply BEING, and letting the Brothahs learn by our example.
>
>>I am ranting. The point is, Black machismo DEMANDS that Sistahs >be powerful undercurrents, NOT crashing sea waves when we deal >w/ them, IF we intend on being effective when we deal w/ them.
>
>So what you are saying is that we need to adjust ourselves
>to black men and their issues?

Don't we do that already? Do you think my mother WANTED to work 3 jobs to support her family? OBVIOUSLY this was an adjustment she had to make in response to some areas where my father was not measuring up. In fact, pretty much all of my friends from two parent homes had mothers working multiple jobs.
Don't you think that mothers on the plantation had to make some kind of ADJUSTMENTS in raising their children alone once their husbands were sold away?
The answer to your question is yes. We already do it anyway. I am not sure that you realize that.
Are we supposed to
>overcompensate for Black men and their response to this
>society?

Not OVERcompensate. Just compensate. This is for the sake of achieving balance. Just because some of them aren't doing what THEY need to do, does not mean we need to go on the warpath with them, and add to the problems.

Who is supposed to compensate and readjust for us?
>Should the focus then to be to inform brothers about the
>negative effects of sexism on ALL of us? Should the focus
>not then to be to help brothers overcome this culture of
>machismo and trying to live up the white man? I really
>believe that there is so much focus on the black man and his
>response to this messed up society that sisters are
>suffering.
>
>>I don't know if U listen to Erykah Badu, but I declare I think >that Sistah is a prophet(notice how I don't make the assumption >that you have 2 B male 2 B a prophet). She explains the whole >thing her song, Orange Moon: "I'm an orange Moon, reflecting >the light of my Sun." That is it right there. EVERYbody knows >how powerful the Moon is, and how it affects the tides, women's >menses, AND people's behavior. Yet, when does the Moon come >out? At night. When people are sleeping, the Moon quietly >affects the earth, in a most powerful way. The Moon represents >feminine Energy. How does the Sun do it though? BRILLIANTLY. >During the day, so everybody can see. And what is the shining
>>Moon lit up by? The Sun, which represents Male Energy. Yin and >Yang. Anima, and Animus.
>
>I do listen to Erykah. But let me ask you a serious
>question: Who decided who represented the sun and who
>represented the moon? I mean I don’t get into all of that
>stuff because half of the time it does not make sense to me,
>especially after I took an astronomy class. Or how does that
>explain that in the womb for the first seven weeks we are
>all female? Or that the Y chromosome is just a small
>offshoot of the X chromosome and is the reason for a lot of
>sex linked diseases? It is just mans attempt to understand
>his world using metaphors which is cool – but somehow women
>always get put in the lower position – like black folks.
>
>>That is how Sistahs need 2 B. SILENTLY powerful. Not in
>>competition w/ the Brothahs, cuz their Energy is a different >kind of Energy, and they need<for various reasons>
>
>Just because you are not silent and refuse to be put in some
>gendered category does not mean that you are in competition
>with a brother. I mean what you are saying *sounds* nice for
>real, but it is the same thing that I hear from sexist men I
>talk to. The undercurrent still sounds like a “women have
>their place and they should make the most of it” kind of
>thing. It is like when folks try and convince black people
>that racism does not exist and we should make the most of
>the opportunities that we have. I understand that men and
>women are different, but I believe a lot of that is mainly
>due to socialization. Like I said before that may be your
>path, and what is best for you. But I should hope you don’t
>believe that is the place for all women.