but still wanna be hoes.

I've noticed that although many brothers continue to uphold the teachings, sayings and values of Malcolm X, less and less uphold Malcolm's respect in being a faithful husband.
It's like some brothers preach and preach and PREACH! of uplifting Black minds and providing better futures for Black children, yet they'll cheat and lie to the woman/women they share their bed and bodies with.
Some readers might think this is personal, but its not. However I know of men like this as well as the women they date and damn if I'm not tired of hearing the sad songs of how some 'power to the people' dude continues to misuse and emotionally abuse the minds and wombs of the same women who bare the people they claim to uplift.

I'm wondering has anyone else noticed this and whats up with brothers preaching Malcolm X in public and playing Malcolm Little behind closed doors?

one of the hardest lessons i had to learn...

cant bring about social change without bringing in personal change.....

and I'm definately not exempted from that. I think what bothers me is that these brothers who are positive at heart(if not in flesh) end up coming off as phony sto'front preacherpimps and despite knowing this, they continue the bull. It gets to the point that despite their good work and intentions, you feel the need to turn your back on them.

i think that the personal change is EQUALLY imporatant as social change....

i do see two aspects to it...

1. the politics you advocate: cleansing ourselves of the oppression we ourselves perpetuate: racism, sexism, clasism, homophobia, etc..... cant talk about removing oppresion and acheiving liberation if it isnt for all...yes certain communities/groups are more oppressed and their struggle needs to be prioritized but there is a fine line in doing that OR just reversing the oppression...

2. building some personal..."integrity': not to sound self-righteous, but we need to struggle to make ourselves better human beings....i cant count how many movements and struggles get undermined by the lying, cheating, backbiting, backstabbing, etc etc that occur in most movements or conscious collectives....this includes being accountable for our honesty, faithfulness, ect etc

salaam

Is so true, it seems like many of these cats just want a piece of mind control on folks (particularly women) and will throw out demeaning shit at them as ways of pulling them in. One example, I was at this p-set and this dude was talking bout how women do this and do that along with how some woman allowed him to do whatever to her and I just could not understand how dude could stand their yakkin bout how women need to change YET he was admitting to keeping this woman down.
There was no mention of rather or not this woman saw more in him that he did himself, no mention of if she loved him and thought their relations or relationship was sacred, just him dogging her for having sex (which to her might have been 'making love') with him. Then to make matters worse bruh says 'If you get mad at my poetry, its probably cause you see yourself in it'. Now that shit made about as much sense as calling a room full of Black folks 'NIGGERS' and then saying 'if you get mad, thats cause you are one'. But the saddest thing of all is that some of the women would clap for that shit.
Needless to say I had to take a hiatus from that place.

there is a difference between someone acknowledging that we are all human and make mistakes but struggling to correct those mistakes AND those that just preach one thing and do another even knowing the consequences.....

and i think it is this struggle that brings out that are truly down for the cause/change from those who just talk or even those who do actual work but dont work on themselves....

I think cats end up like this because they think it's trendy or they're just trying to find themselves with a "one foot in the door" mentality. I've seen it in past and I'm starting to see it often on the streets. Ironically, I see it way too much in here just by what people say and post in other forums..unforntunately.



"The camel never sees its own hump but that of its brothers is always before its eyes"- N.African proverb

>but still wanna be hoes.

Sexual practices have nothing to do with social positions of black people. Unless the person is not being a father to his child or children.

>I've noticed that although many brothers continue to uphold
>the teachings, sayings and values of Malcolm X, less and
>less uphold Malcolm's respect in being a faithful husband.

Maybe some people dont belive in monagamy. Mos Def is a polygamist but the brother brings alot of knowledge to the table.

>It's like some brothers preach and preach and PREACH! of
>uplifting Black minds and providing better futures for Black
>children, yet they'll cheat and lie to the woman/women they
>share their bed and bodies with.

Well thats between the man and the woman he has a relationship with. His actions in bed doesnt make the truths he speak any less truthful.



>I'm wondering has anyone else noticed this and whats up with
>brothers preaching Malcolm X in public and playing Malcolm
>Little behind closed doors?

Well I dont care what people do behind close doors in bed. I do care what kind of agenda they have to uplift the community. Besides we need to stop putting all our faith in one person and act as a collective unit. So if a man is assasinated we can keep moving. We should never follow men only goals and agendas as a community.

so if you cheat on your wife

im supposed to believe that you genuiely care about my progression as a black woman?

riight

~either stand tall or sit the fuck down~mos def

"Then Columbus didn't find anything, he was simply lost. if I take a boat to England once I get there, regardless of how, can I simply rename the place...Harlem?"-Aquaman

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

I dont know about you but im human. Everyone makes mistakes and if you have sex with another woman how is that stopping there progression as a gender. Now if I beat on a woman then you have an argument. But if I cheat on my wife thats between me and my wife. It has nothing to do with the rest of the black community.
Besides like I said not everyone believes in the westernized standards of relationships.

define progression?

im speaking in terms of not just trying to progress in the system but progressing in terms of our survival and the way WE treat each other

but heay

i guess a black man w/aids fucking 3 black women is pretty weak because its "their" business

yup

~either stand tall or sit the fuck down~mos def

"Then Columbus didn't find anything, he was simply lost. if I take a boat to England once I get there, regardless of how, can I simply rename the place...Harlem?"-Aquaman

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

>define progression?

Im talking about better education for our kids. Im talking about
Owning businesses. Im talking about lowering the drug rate in our community and giving people another way out of hopless situations.


>im speaking in terms of not just trying to progress in the
>system but progressing in terms of our survival and the way
>WE treat each other.

People MAKE MISTAKES! or people stray and they get horny and then have sex.
Some people want more than one woman theres nothing wrong with that. I swear man white people got us all fucked up. In Africa some societys beleived in polygamy and they thrived stop living by other peoples standards a find your own. I cant judge a man or woman by what he does in a relationship its not fair.






>
>
>i guess a black man w/aids fucking 3 black women is pretty
>weak because its "their" business

Wow that pretty extreme I mean how about brothers who fuck 3 women and practice safe sex that must have never crossed your mind. Besides there are a million scenarios on how people can catch aids. You could be in a commited relationship and catch aids from someone in your past. Then past it on to the person in your current commited relationship.

>Im talking about better education for our kids. Im talking
>about
>Owning businesses. Im talking about lowering the drug rate
>in our community and giving people another way out of
>hopless situations.

Again..this is very contradictive....how are you going to bring a family together when you can't maintain the family structure at home. I mean..thats what you are doing when speak in terms of community. "our community= family"



>People MAKE MISTAKES! or people stray and they get horny and
>then have sex.
>Some people want more than one woman theres nothing wrong
>with that. I swear man white people got us all fucked up. In
>Africa some societys beleived in polygamy and they thrived
>stop living by other peoples standards a find your own. I
>cant judge a man or woman by what he does in a relationship
>its not fair.

Yes..people make mistakes but that shouldn't be an excuse for you to do wrong...what would tell your wife when you cheat on her..."sorry honey...you should have expected this..I'm weak..I'm a man." Please....
I would be a different story if the man was married with more than one wife. (Islamically)


"The camel never sees its own hump but that of its brothers is always before its eyes"- N.African proverb

>
>Again..this is very contradictive....how are you going to
>bring a family together when you can't maintain the family
>structure at home. I mean..thats what you are doing when
>speak in terms of community. "our community= family"

Well who said anything about having a family. What sbout someone whos single you cant hold them to the same standards.
On top of that why are people so caught up in who sleeps with who. If someone cheats its sex and people place different values on sex. Just because your belief system is one way doesnt mean its the same for the next man. Yes community euals family but somethings are between a man and wooman. It not anyones business whos sleeps with whom except the adults involved.

>Yes..people make mistakes but that shouldn't be an excuse
>for you to do wrong...what would tell your wife when you
>cheat on her..."sorry honey...you should have expected
>this..I'm weak..I'm a man." Please....
>I would be a different story if the man was married with
>more than one wife. (Islamically)

Look at you tryna bring religion to justify more than one woman. Well guess what I dont believe in religion so that dont mean anything to me. But if I wanna have more than one woman so be it. Its not anyones business but mine. As long as im not fathering a bunch of kids and not taking care of them.

i mean if you make several kids you need to be able provide food, shelter, and clothing. at the least. its about the survival and the development of carriers of the thinking thats it. i'm sorry i'm just so bothered by the spoon fed knowledge and the american established ways. you know. the multiple wives things is a matter of choice and opinion. i choose no because i'm not a breeder. i refuse to be one, but i will be a teacher to the children for those who are. polygamy like some stated is not about love will monogamy is and is about something far harder to explain.
peace









































-you only got one life to live so all my children its better to give then recieve life is short days of our lives seem to speed still waiting for the day they legalize weed/
i'm tired of dreamin i wanna hit the big screenan but keep an open eye for those cats that stay schemin
~shyheim and folks (1999)



-ase7 productions future projects in film!!!

http://members.blackplanet.com/pistachio/

How do your women feel about that? Or do they even know about one another?

>> But if I wanna have more than one
>woman so be it. Its not anyones business but mine. As long
>as im not fathering a bunch of kids and not taking care of
>them.

it's about general disrepect for the person for the person you are with. That's hyprotical calling for respect for black women, but not a particular black woman. It doesn't neccessarily mean everything else said is null in void, but discrepecting our women does nothing but hurt our community in general. Integrity for the community begins with personal integrity

~either stand tall or sit the fuck down~mos def

"Then Columbus didn't find anything, he was simply lost. if I take a boat to England once I get there, regardless of how, can I simply rename the place...Harlem?"-Aquaman

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

There is more than one way to disrespet woman than just cheating.
We all have at one time or another disrespected a woman.
Sometimes people have heated arguements and disrespect each other. But if you can over come that then the relationship is worth having.

you just don't get it do you

wow

peace

~either stand tall or sit the fuck down~mos def

"Then Columbus didn't find anything, he was simply lost. if I take a boat to England once I get there, regardless of how, can I simply rename the place...Harlem?"-Aquaman

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

nm

The problem with most of these guys it that they are not trying to overcome treating women a certain way, yet they want to appear positive to the community. I mean how on earth can you claim to be uplifting your people (men/women/children) when you treat the very person you share your body with like a dog? No you may not be beating on them and perhaps you haven't contracted an STD, AIDS/HIV yet, but a promiscuious life style is not a healthy one regardless of the contraceptive and the most hurtful relationships between men and women are not due to physical abuse but cheating and losing trust and respect for that person.

In talking with elders, I've been told that when people lay with others they pick up of whatever spirit & scent that person has. And truth is we do pick up some of the characteristics of the people we are intimate with and its usually one of the reasons why folks tend to always end up in relationships with a certain character of person. Its a case of like attracts like.
Now just think, if a person that claims to be uplifting a community is sleeping around with numerous people, their minds can't possibly be concerned with the positive because they are too busy uplifting asses and sooner or later it will defeat their community work.

Just look at Jesse Jackson and the P.U.S.H coilition. I can't say how long he has been humpin around, but just think of how much further P.U.S.H might have grown had his mind been concentrated on 'family' and his community work, and look at how much he's infedilities has cost (time, money & respect)P.U.S.H as well as Jesse himself.

>The problem with most of these guys it that they are not
>trying to overcome treating women a certain way, yet they
>want to appear positive to the community. I mean how on
>earth can you claim to be uplifting your people
>(men/women/children) when you treat the very person you
>share your body with like a dog?

What the hell are you talking about here. So if someone cheats or even has more than one woman he is treating the other persons body like a dog? Thats a ridiculous statement you need reall think about what you just typed.


No you may not be beating
>on them and perhaps you haven't contracted an STD, AIDS/HIV
>yet, but a promiscuious life style is not a healthy one
>regardless of the contraceptive and the most hurtful
>relationships between men and women are not due to physical
>abuse but cheating and losing trust and respect for that
>person.

How is being promiscuious unhealthy if one chooses to do so.
I have friends who are sexualy active with nore than one woman
there in better shape than im in. Also your speculating on the abuse vs cheating aspect of relationships. Besides I think beating a woman because you had a bad day at work far out ways
getting some ass on the low.But you must be one of those women who think if your man doesnt beat you he doesnt love you huh?



>
>In talking with elders, I've been told that when people lay
>with others they pick up of whatever spirit & scent that
>person has.

Point blank prove it you know what dont even waste your time because you cant. When you start bringing on all the spiritual
BS the conversation starts to get illogical.
As far as the so called elders go they was doing alot of humping around in there day. You know how many old heads got kids they dont even account for.

And truth is we do pick up some of the
>characteristics of the people we are intimate with and its
>usually one of the reasons why folks tend to always end up
>in relationships with a certain character of person.

Again that is a crazy statment I dont take on any charateristics of people I sleep with in my past.

Its a
>case of like attracts like.
>Now just think, if a person that claims to be uplifting a
>community is sleeping around with numerous people, their
>minds can't possibly be concerned with the positive because
>they are too busy uplifting asses and sooner or later it
>will defeat their community work.

Stop one has NOTHING to do with the other

>Just look at Jesse Jackson and the P.U.S.H coilition. I
>can't say how long he has been humpin around, but just think
>of how much further P.U.S.H might have grown had his mind
>been concentrated on 'family' and his community work, and
>look at how much he's infedilities has cost (time, money &
>respect)P.U.S.H as well as Jesse himself.

Please give another example besides Jesse Jackson. Jesse is a fraud whether he is humping around or not. As far as what his extra maritital affairs have cost its because people are nosy.
Thats between him and his wife and last I checked she is still with him so its no biggie in my book. Also this whole thing about extra marital affairs is an american thing. Other countries in the world laugh at our sexual restrictions. We are so caught up in being moral and high and mighty we forget to be human. Besides George Bush stays quoting the bible and all that BS and he still tryna kill innocent kids in Iraq. But hey hes faithful to his wife so he must be a stand up guy.

>>The problem with most of these guys it that they are not
>>trying to overcome treating women a certain way, yet they
>>want to appear positive to the community. I mean how on
>>earth can you claim to be uplifting your people
>>(men/women/children) when you treat the very person you
>>share your body with like a dog?
>
>What the hell are you talking about here. So if someone
>cheats or even has more than one woman he is treating the
>other persons body like a dog? Thats a ridiculous statement
>you need reall think about what you just typed.

I'm basically speaking on a couple of guys I know and know of.
Also when did sleeping around become good for ones health? I can validate the opposite based on STD's, AIDS/HIV, cancers, unplanned pregnancy/who'sthedaddy issues, as well as emotional problems that can effect ones mentalhealth due to promicuous lifestyles, but if you feel it is a healthy way to live then back it up and not with some stories about your friends who sleep with more than one woman.
>
> No you may not be beating
>>on them and perhaps you haven't contracted an STD, AIDS/HIV
>>yet, but a promiscuious life style is not a healthy one
>>regardless of the contraceptive and the most hurtful
>>relationships between men and women are not due to physical
>>abuse but cheating and losing trust and respect for that
>>person.
>
>How is being promiscuious unhealthy if one chooses to do so.
>I have friends who are sexualy active with nore than one
>woman
>there in better shape than im in.

What shape our the women in?

Also your speculating on
>the abuse vs cheating aspect of relationships. Besides I
>think beating a woman because you had a bad day at work far
>out ways
>getting some ass on the low.

Both are wrong and can bring about death.
Either he can beat her to death or fuck up and give her AIDS or he can cause a Joey Buddafucco case to occur.

But you must be one of those
>women who think if your man doesnt beat you he doesnt love
>you huh?

What makes you think I would think that a man beating you equates to him loving you? And sense you wanna assume I'm guessing you must be one of those guys that feel if a man aint beating the shit out of his lady and is cheating on her with whomever catchin whatever, then he's a better man and somehow providing more of a healthy relationship for that woman.
If a man truly loves a woman he won't hit her or cheat on her. For a man to preach about uplifting folks, pretend to be monogamous and degrade women in his bed and verbally in public is not cool and I can't support some bullshit person like that.
>
>
>
>>
>>In talking with elders, I've been told that when people lay
>>with others they pick up of whatever spirit & scent that
>>person has.
>
>Point blank prove it you know what dont even waste your time
>because you cant. When you start bringing on all the
>spiritual
>BS the conversation starts to get illogical.

So you think spirituality is illogical? I can only guess that your faith/beliefs have nothing to do with the spirit, huh?
As for the scent piece, two sweaty bodies that intertwine on a regular are bound to mix scents, one scent(usually male) may even dominate the other.

>As far as the so called elders go they was doing alot of
>humping around in there day. You know how many old heads got
>kids they dont even account for.

Well that really aint no thing of the past considering we have just as many if not more new heads out here with shorties they don't even account for.

> And truth is we do pick up some of the
>>characteristics of the people we are intimate with and its
>>usually one of the reasons why folks tend to always end up
>>in relationships with a certain character of person.
>
>Again that is a crazy statment I dont take on any
>charateristics of people I sleep with in my past.

Folks around you may disagree. Don't know how many times a male or female friend would take on a new personality (not talking Sybil) when it came to the person they were dating. This aint to say they didn't have there own personality but they would take on a quality from the person they were dating and it was most heard in conversation such as saying something that I was more familiar with hearing their better half say or making certain gestures that was more common to their b.h. They didn't realize it either til someone said something.

>Its a
>>case of like attracts like.
>>Now just think, if a person that claims to be uplifting a
>>community is sleeping around with numerous people, their
>>minds can't possibly be concerned with the positive because
>>they are too busy uplifting asses and sooner or later it
>>will defeat their community work.
>
>Stop one has NOTHING to do with the other

One has EVERYTHING to do with the other. You can't concentrate of being a leader when your spending time chasing ass, it won't work.

>>Just look at Jesse Jackson and the P.U.S.H coilition. I
>>can't say how long he has been humpin around, but just think
>>of how much further P.U.S.H might have grown had his mind
>>been concentrated on 'family' and his community work, and
>>look at how much he's infedilities has cost (time, money &
>>respect)P.U.S.H as well as Jesse himself.
>
>Please give another example besides Jesse Jackson. Jesse is
>a fraud whether he is humping around or not. As far as what
>his extra maritital affairs have cost its because people are
>nosy.

Name a leader who isn't a fraud? Jesses humpin just made him look more the fool and aided in wasting time that could have been used for more productive things.

>Thats between him and his wife and last I checked she is
>still with him so its no biggie in my book. Also this whole
>thing about extra marital affairs is an american thing.

How is it an American thing when damn near half of the world practices a religion(s) that supports and upholds monogamy?
And as for Jesse's wife, just cause she with him don't mean things are a'ok between them. I wouldn't be surprised if she had him by the balls on some legal issues that makes him her slave, but allowed them to show good face in public.

>Other countries in the world laugh at our sexual
>restrictions.
So devoting your love and body to one person is a restriction? Does this apply to both men and women?

We are so caught up in being moral and high
>and mighty we forget to be human.
This aint got nothing to do with being high and mighty, it has to do with respecting and devoting yourself to the people you love and care about, which includes the person you intimately share your body with. And just how is a promiscous life a show of being human?

Besides George Bush stays
>quoting the bible and all that BS and he still tryna kill
>innocent kids in Iraq. But hey hes faithful to his wife so
>he must be a stand up guy.

Are you kidding, dudes a crackhead, do you really think he was being faithful while snorting up that shit? His punk ass just hasn't been exposed and considering his hold on the media, he will never be. However, unlike the dude I was talking about at the set, Bush has the sense not to publicize his bedroom behavior while dogging other for theirs.

>>What the hell are you talking about here. So if someone
>>cheats or even has more than one woman he is treating the
>>other persons body like a dog? Thats a ridiculous statement
>>you need reall think about what you just typed.
>
>I'm basically speaking on a couple of guys I know and know
>of.
>Also when did sleeping around become good for ones health? I
>can validate the opposite based on STD's, AIDS/HIV, cancers,
>unplanned pregnancy/who'sthedaddy issues, as well as
>emotional problems that can effect ones mentalhealth due to
>promicuous lifestyles, but if you feel it is a healthy way
>to live then back it up and not with some stories about your
>friends who sleep with more than one woman.

Lets look at this from a scientific point of view.
How does one aquire HIV? Answer he must fuck someone who has already aquired the disease. Which means if I fuck to women who are not infected I have ZERO!!!! chance of getting the virus or any STD if they do not have it. Also fucking involves physical movement which means you getting a workout when to people fuck they usualy sweat. Which means you are working your cardiovascular system. So its similar to doing aerobics so if you fuck 2 times a day its like going to the gym twice a day.
Fucking is also good for the heart you could run a marathon on someone.



>>
>>How is being promiscuious unhealthy if one chooses to do so.
>>I have friends who are sexualy active with nore than one
>>woman
>>there in better shape than im in.
>
>What shape our the women in?

The women are in great shape sometimes they even join each other.
Its called threesomes you might wanna try it.


>Both are wrong and can bring about death.
>Either he can beat her to death or fuck up and give her AIDS
>or he can cause a Joey Buddafucco case to occur.

Hmmmm lets see a women or man can choose to kill someone for cheating. It would be stupid cause aint know one worth serving time in jail for. So I would say that the person is a dumb ass for going the Joey Buddafucco route there are other fish in the sea. I think beating a women FARRRRRRRR out ways cheating one a has an immediate physical impact on the victim.


>But you must be one of those
>>women who think if your man doesnt beat you he doesnt love
>>you huh?
>
>What makes you think I would think that a man beating you
>equates to him loving you?

I was being a smart mouth when I said that.
But you cant compare cheating or multiple sex partners to beating someones ass for having a bad day at work.


And sense you wanna assume I'm
>guessing you must be one of those guys that feel if a man
>aint beating the shit out of his lady and is cheating on her
>with whomever catchin whatever, then he's a better man and
>somehow providing more of a healthy relationship for that
>woman.

Hahaha uh no not at all if you recall I said beating a woman was wrong. Your the one trying to tie sex and beating someone in the
mould.

>If a man truly loves a woman he won't hit her or cheat on
>her.

Not true at all plus you not a man so you cant speak on any mans sex drive. Men are made to procreate the only reason we believe in Monogamy is because of the society we are in.

For a man to preach about uplifting folks, pretend to
>be monogamous and degrade women in his bed and verbally in
>public is not cool and I can't support some bullshit person
>like that.

I never said anything about someone pretending. There are plenty of people that dont pretend to be monogamous. But still bring alot of knowledge and wisdom to the table.


>>Point blank prove it you know what dont even waste your time
>>because you cant. When you start bringing on all the
>>spiritual
>>BS the conversation starts to get illogical.
>
>So you think spirituality is illogical? I can only guess
>that your faith/beliefs have nothing to do with the spirit,
>huh?

Nah it damn sure dont I only believe in what I see for the most part. Do I wonder if theres something beyond this place yeah I do. Can I prove either way that such a place exist nope and neither can you. So your spirits could all be in your head. Ask David Koresh if the spirits walked and talked to him I bet he wil say yeah.

>As for the scent piece, two sweaty bodies that intertwine on
>a regular are bound to mix scents, one scent(usually male)
>may even dominate the other.

Damn please dont say that in public you gonna look real crazy outside your social circle. You ever come to me with that nonsense I will destroy you.

>
>>As far as the so called elders go they was doing alot of
>>humping around in there day. You know how many old heads got
>>kids they dont even account for.
>
>Well that really aint no thing of the past considering we
>have just as many if not more new heads out here with
>shorties they don't even account for.

Never said it was a thing of the past. ust pinting out that the behavior is learned. So elders cant speak about our generation without addressing the issues of there own.

>>Again that is a crazy statment I dont take on any
>>charateristics of people I sleep with in my past.
>
>Folks around you may disagree. Don't know how many times a
>male or female friend would take on a new personality (not
>talking Sybil) when it came to the person they were dating.
>This aint to say they didn't have there own personality but
>they would take on a quality from the person they were
>dating and it was most heard in conversation such as saying
>something that I was more familiar with hearing their better
>half say or making certain gestures that was more common to
>their b.h. They didn't realize it either til someone said
>something.

Taking on charateristics of someone could come from just hanging around with someone. For instance if you lived up north then came down south to live chances are you may pick up a southern accent. That doesnt have anything to do with having sex with.
Being around someone for anyperiod of time you may pick up something from them sex or know sex.



>>Its a
>>>case of like attracts like.
>>>Now just think, if a person that claims to be uplifting a
>>>community is sleeping around with numerous people, their
>>>minds can't possibly be concerned with the positive because
>>>they are too busy uplifting asses and sooner or later it
>>>will defeat their community work.

The act of sex is neither positive or negative it just is what it is. Like I said what a man does behind closed doors is none of my businees. Now if your a gossip queen like Wendy Williams then more power to you. But I could care less who you sleep with.



>
>One has EVERYTHING to do with the other. You can't
>concentrate of being a leader when your spending time
>chasing ass, it won't work.

Hmmmm lets see Martin LUther King and John F Kennedy were effective leaders. They were both chasing ass big time they make Bill Clinton look like Steve Erkle.


>>
>>Please give another example besides Jesse Jackson. Jesse is
>>a fraud whether he is humping around or not. As far as what
>>his extra maritital affairs have cost its because people are
>>nosy.
>
>Name a leader who isn't a fraud? Jesses humpin just made him
>look more the fool and aided in wasting time that could have
>been used for more productive things.

OHHHHH now every leader is a fraud? So what your saying is if
Jesse hadnt been exposed having an affair he could have made more time to be an even bigger fraud. Thats pretty strange I thought you cared about the community.

>
>>Thats between him and his wife and last I checked she is
>>still with him so its no biggie in my book. Also this whole
>>thing about extra marital affairs is an american thing.
>
>How is it an American thing when damn near half of the world
>practices a religion(s) that supports and upholds monogamy?

LMAO wow what world you living in. This just shows how wet behind the ears you are. Lets see the biggest religion in the world is Islam. Most Islamic countries allow the man to have more than one woman. Go read a little more then come back to me ok sweetie.

>And as for Jesse's wife, just cause she with him don't mean
>things are a'ok between them. I wouldn't be surprised if she
>had him by the balls on some legal issues that makes him her
>slave, but allowed them to show good face in public.

Your speculating and its not good to do that when talking about someone elses relationship.


>>Other countries in the world laugh at our sexual
>>restrictions.
>So devoting your love and body to one person is a
>restriction? Does this apply to both men and women?

Obviously to some it is that why people cheat or have sex with more than one person.


>We are so caught up in being moral and high
>>and mighty we forget to be human.
>This aint got nothing to do with being high and mighty, it
>has to do with respecting and devoting yourself to the
>people you love and care about, which includes the person
>you intimately share your body with. And just how is a
>promiscous life a show of being human?

Well people are attracted to more than one person Id say thats pretty human.

>Besides George Bush stays
>>quoting the bible and all that BS and he still tryna kill
>>innocent kids in Iraq. But hey hes faithful to his wife so
>>he must be a stand up guy.
>
>Are you kidding, dudes a crackhead, do you really think he
>was being faithful while snorting up that shit? His punk ass
>just hasn't been exposed and considering his hold on the
>media, he will never be. However, unlike the dude I was
>talking about at the set, Bush has the sense not to
>publicize his bedroom behavior while dogging other for
>theirs.

Please read that statement it totaly contradicts your arguement.

I really aint trying to answer all that. But I can see we 2 completely different levels, you talking science, I'm talking love. A man who claims love for his woman but cheats(which means 9x's outta 10 there is no menaetwa(sp) or knowledge of another woman) can't expect folks to take his love for his people with more than a grain of salt. Same goes for a man who fucks around with er'woman he comes across, he can't expect folks to believe he can be committed to the cause of a people if he's running game on the women of those people.
Also I'm talking bout folks that claim to be doing positive and DEDICATING themsleves to their culture, people, community. Not just some dude that fucks all the time to keep his health up.

>I really aint trying to answer all that. But I can see we 2
>completely different levels, you talking science, I'm
>talking love.

Nah im talking commonsense not everyone is gonna LIVE like you not everbody sees sex in the same light. So dont go around calling peple uneducated or on a lesser level than you becuase of there sex practices.


A man who claims love for his woman but
>cheats(which means 9x's outta 10 there is no menaetwa(sp) or
>knowledge of another woman) can't expect folks to take his
>love for his people with more than a grain of salt.

Please if dude has a solid plan for the community Ill listen and help execute that plan. Besides you looking for leader yo should follow KNOW!!! man.


>Also I'm talking bout folks that claim to be doing positive
>and DEDICATING themsleves to their culture, people,
>community. Not just some dude that fucks all the time to
>keep his health up.

Stop exagerating know one said all that I said you must seperate the man from his agenda 2 different things. But I see this is a relgious,spiritual,and gender thing so im a dead it.
But if your going to totaly buy into western concepts you might wanna get a perm and bleach your hair blond.

>But if your going to totaly buy into western concepts you
>might wanna get a perm and bleach your hair blond.

about "westernization" you certainly do have a very dichotomy filled worldview.

you keep trying to separate body, mind and spirit and place science above & beyond those aspects when they are all intertwined--a VERY western way of thinking. along with your determination to separate actions and words

western = separatist
eastern = wholistic, inclusive.

or is polygamy the only eastern ideal you're willing to hold up? if you're going to discuss it, discuss it from the community/family aspects it was meant to have in context.

it wasn't about just getting to fuck who you wanted. a man still had to treat all his wives as fairly as possible to be seen as an upstanding member of his community. that was part of keeping his body, spirit, and mind clean in addition to contributing to the community thru his family. that was the ideal.

it's all about the whole. and you can't have it both ways.


_____________________________
"The IAEA's experience in nuclear verification shows that it is possible, particularly with an intrusive verification system, to assess the presence or absence of a nuclear weapons program in a state even without the full co-operation of the inspected state." ~Mohamed ElBaradei







guess what? there's only one planet. nukes = homelessness.

>about "westernization" you certainly do have a very
>dichotomy filled worldview.
>
>you keep trying to separate body, mind and spirit and place
>science above & beyond those aspects when they are all
>intertwined--a VERY western way of thinking. along with your
>determination to separate actions and words

Ok the reason I bought science into the conversation was she asked me to prove the physical benefits of sex.
Concerning sprituality nah im not a so called spiritual person I really dont believe in that. I believe everything is up to the man or woman you can control the outcome of your own life.
Im not claiming science is the absolute truth because that was created by man so its got faults also. But man does not create the truths that science has unearthed. So when you start talking about spirits thats just your opinion and not anythiing you can back up with proof.


>or is polygamy the only eastern ideal you're willing to hold
>up? if you're going to discuss it, discuss it from the
>community/family aspects it was meant to have in context.

Im not upholding anything im just stating that people have a right to sleep with who they choose. The original poster started talking about how its wrong to sleep with more than one person. I personaly think she needs to mind her businees.
Just cause you sleep with more than woman doesnt make you ignorant or your ideas anyless valid then someone who is monagamous.



>it wasn't about just getting to fuck who you wanted. a man
>still had to treat all his wives as fairly as possible to be
>seen as an upstanding member of his community. that was part
>of keeping his body, spirit, and mind clean in addition to
>contributing to the community thru his family. that was the
>ideal.

Well again that spirit shit means nothing to me and wasnt upholding any values. I was just pointing other societies that practice polygamy and function just fine. Now all those other things may have went hand in hand with there society but the bottom line is polygamy worked. All I can say is respect thge person or persons your with you cant equate multiple sex partners with abuse.

>Im not upholding anything im just stating that people have a
>right to sleep with who they choose. The original poster
>started talking about how its wrong to sleep with more than
>one person. I personaly think she needs to mind her
>businees.
>Just cause you sleep with more than woman doesnt make you
>ignorant or your ideas anyless valid then someone who is
>monagamous.

agreed. but her point was about men who are supposedly in commited relationships & continuously break that bond, while preaching monogamy & faithfulness. or the strength of the black family.

or men who talk about how black women are the queens of the universe or what have you, then turn around and patronize & demean the women they "love".

you know that skit before the common/mc lyte song on "like water for chocolate" when he's talking to the fan like, "yeah sista, 'cause i believe we all need to stick together as black people and blah blah blah" and then his hoe comes in & he curses at her & slaps her around? that's an extreme, but it's the dualistic attitude a lot of these men have (and i know you mentioned physical abuse as crossing a line, but you are aware that psychological abuse can be just as if not more damaging, correct? let's not battle semantics).


>Well again that spirit shit means nothing to me and wasnt
>upholding any values. I was just pointing other societies
>that practice polygamy and function just fine. Now all those
>other things may have went hand in hand with there society
>but the bottom line is polygamy worked. All I can say is
>respect thge person or persons your with you cant equate
>multiple sex partners with abuse.

multiple sex partners & multiple marriages are two different things. a king would have never treated one of his concubines like his queen(s). it's like apples and oranges.

you're comparing a lot of different things in an effort to make a point the poster really wasn't trying to get at.

...not to mention the original post wasn't even about famous or well known people. just ordinary every day folks who can't keep their dirt under the rug long enough to keep from looking like assholes when they come w/ all the "righteousness"

that's not being nosy, that's just bein real.

_____________________________
"The IAEA's experience in nuclear verification shows that it is possible, particularly with an intrusive verification system, to assess the presence or absence of a nuclear weapons program in a state even without the full co-operation of the inspected state." ~Mohamed ElBaradei







guess what? there's only one planet. nukes = homelessness.

>>Im not upholding anything im just stating that people have a
>>right to sleep with who they choose. The original poster
>>started talking about how its wrong to sleep with more than
>>one person. I personaly think she needs to mind her
>>businees.
>>Just cause you sleep with more than woman doesnt make you
>>ignorant or your ideas anyless valid then someone who is
>>monagamous.
>
>agreed. but her point was about men who are supposedly in
>commited relationships & continuously break that bond, while
>preaching monogamy & faithfulness. or the strength of the
>black family.

Well my point on that was who cares thats between the man and the woman. The stength of family is important but not every family unit is nuclear. Everyones mother and father are not together so we need to find other ways besides the conventional to raise youth. Also there are men who dont cheat on there wives and are not good fathers. See Lex my whole thing is we need to stop putting our faith in leaders everyone has faults.
People need to start thinking for themselves everyone is sitting around waiting for the Messiah. Well everytime the Messiah comes he gets assasinated. Then the movement dies and people go home and conform with society.

>
>you know that skit before the common/mc lyte song on "like
>water for chocolate" when he's talking to the fan like,
>"yeah sista, 'cause i believe we all need to stick together
>as black people and blah blah blah" and then his hoe comes
>in & he curses at her & slaps her around? that's an extreme,
>but it's the dualistic attitude a lot of these men have (and
>i know you mentioned physical abuse as crossing a line, but
>you are aware that psychological abuse can be just as if not
>more damaging, correct? let's not battle semantics).

Yes mental and physical abuse is both and equaly wrong no doubt.
But somethings like cheating while wrong are also very human. Just like screaming on someone cause you had a bad day. These things happen and while it sucks for the victim its still human.
As we all know to error is human. Now another thing im going to address is how the original poster makes women out to be victims. Women have a say in whether or not to take the man back. If she takes the man back thats her choice and she is no longer the victim. Looking at sexuality is not as easy as people think people are attracted to more than one person.
For some people its easier to control there sex drive than others.


>
>multiple sex partners & multiple marriages are two different
>things. a king would have never treated one of his
>concubines like his queen(s). it's like apples and oranges.

Well not to me marriage is just a title thrown around by society for tax breaks. If your married to 3 women your still having sex with 3 women theres no difference in my book. Look lets just drop the titles of king queen marriage and see shit for what it really is.



>...not to mention the original post wasn't even about famous
>or well known people. just ordinary every day folks who
>can't keep their dirt under the rug long enough to keep from
>looking like assholes when they come w/ all the
>"righteousness"


Shes the one who bought up Jesse Jackson not me. See if you listen to her babble long enough her real motivation behind the post comes out. On the surface you think shes just talking about men who abuse women. Then as the conversation progresses it she starts attacking any man who has sex with more than one woman single or married. Also when people get exposed with extra marital affairs I dont care. Its only news because people are nosy and ignorant. There lives suck so they wanna be entertained off someone elses misery. If a man does great things for the community then it comes out he had another woman on the side does that marginalize what hes done for the community. I say no and if anyone says yes then your a bigger fool for propaganda then your admitting.

you're making a lot of assumptions about what she's saying

but, i digress

your point is duly noted.

>
societies are you referring to? Afrikan? If so, you are wrong. There is a BIG problem with polygamy, from Afrikan women's perspective, which has been documented in literature for years. The problem is, since women have little to no rights in many of these countries, it is a system about which they can do nothing. Things are changing slowly in countries like Kenya, for example, because youth who study abroad, and witness other societies who support their OWN preference for monagamy, come home, and tell their men they're not havin' it.

>> other societies
>that practice polygamy and function just fine. Now all those
>other things may have went hand in hand with there society
>but the bottom line is polygamy worked. All I can say is
>respect thge person or persons your with you cant equate
>multiple sex partners with abuse.

funny but I decided to read more of that bullshit. So now you want to DESTROY me? Yeah you're a thousand times better than the man that beats his woman.

~either stand tall or sit the fuck down~mos def

"Then Columbus didn't find anything, he was simply lost. if I take a boat to England once I get there, regardless of how, can I simply rename the place...Harlem?"-Aquaman

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

dude was just chewing his own ass with that post.

Yall some self righteous people but that shit gonna come back and bite you in the ass. It seems you and cre8 are on some fairy tale spiritual wanna be Oprah Winfrey with a dash of Angela Davis bullshit. Monagamy is not the key to get the black community outta of its situation. If you 2 chicks are bitter cause some Locked Rasta ran some game on yall thats your problem. Get over it and move on this whole post sounds personal to me. Stop folowing men and find your own way in this world you both seem weak and need men to validate your existence thats what I get form your posting. So heres something for both of you how about black women who cant stand on there own but yet wanna talk about community upliftment. That sounds like both of you.
I will call it the Oprah syndrome. You both suffer from it stop looking in other peoples bed rooms and worry about your own.
Peace

P.S. stop exagerating everything someone says

Selfrighteous aint got shit to do with it and yes you still chewed your own ass with that post.

that persons an idiot

~either stand tall or sit the fuck down~mos def

"Then Columbus didn't find anything, he was simply lost. if I take a boat to England once I get there, regardless of how, can I simply rename the place...Harlem?"-Aquaman

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

this fool has got to be Sybil, shit will have you crackin up.

.

>funny but I decided to read more of that bullshit. So now
>you want to DESTROY me?

Look could you please go get a man that has the same view point you obviously a little sensitive. If you gonna take everything in a debate literal then you might wanna stand down. I was talking about destroying you VIEW POINTS NOT YOU AS A PERSON!!!!!! Oh shit look im tyoing in caps now let me ease it down dont wanna make you cry.

Yeah you're a thousand times better
>than the man that beats his woman.

Just stop

first you claim you gonna DESTROY me, now your biting your tongue, eh?
and what the hell does getting a man that shares my point of view gotta do with your punk ass replying to a post I made?
That makes as much sense as standing on someones lawn and telling the owner they need furniture in their house.
and just what the hell does getting a man have to do with anything in this post at all?

U sound like one of those cockhead dudes that feel dick is the answer to stopping a woman from being 'uppity'?

>first you claim you gonna DESTROY me, now your biting your
>tongue, eh?

This is what i said.

"Look could you please go get a man that has the same view point you obviously a little sensitive. If you gonna take everything in a debate literal then you might wanna stand down. I was talking about destroying you VIEW POINTS NOT YOU AS A PERSON!!!!!! Oh shit look im tyoing in caps now let me ease it down dont wanna make you cry."

Know one is biting there tongue on anything. Sense your so dense
and ignorant I just thought I would clarify what I meant by what I said. I was obviously over your head on that.


>and what the hell does getting a man that shares my point of
>view gotta do with your punk ass replying to a post I made?

Well your obviously not strong enough to face me one on one so I made the suggestion cause your a little sensitive. I based that on how you took my statement about destroying you literaly.

>That makes as much sense as standing on someones lawn and
>telling the owner they need furniture in their house.
>and just what the hell does getting a man have to do with
>anything in this post at all?

Well that seems to be what you need in your life to stand firm.
You base the value of men on who they sleep with as if they evil cause they mess with more than one woman. I guess Martin Luther King wasnt an effective leader. Point blank you dont know shit.
You probably one of them broads that got a afro light some insense listen to Bob Marley and think you enlightened. Well guess what you need to go back to the drawing board. Your nothing but a Neo Soul Joan Rivers.

>
>U sound like one of those cockhead dudes that feel dick is
>the answer to stopping a woman from being 'uppity'?

No im not unlike you I dont see women as victims. I see women as people who should sleep or not sleep with as many people as she chooses. As long as she can handle it alot of women cave under the preception of society and think bad of themselves if they sleep with more than one person. Also Ive been in a commited relationship for 5 going on 6 years and I NEVER cheated on my lady. I just think to each his own mind your business and worry about your own backyard which obviously needs some tending to.

>>first you claim you gonna DESTROY me, now your biting your
>>tongue, eh?
>
>This is what i said.
>
>"Look could you please go get a man that has the same view
>point you obviously a little sensitive. If you gonna take
>everything in a debate literal then you might wanna stand
>down. I was talking about destroying you VIEW POINTS NOT YOU
>AS A PERSON!!!!!! Oh shit look im tyoing in caps now let me
>ease it down dont wanna make you cry."

and as I said, what the hell does getting a man have to do with this post?

>
>Know one is biting there tongue on anything. Sense your so
>dense
>and ignorant I just thought I would clarify what I meant by
>what I said. I was obviously over your head on that.

ya momma
>
>
>>and what the hell does getting a man that shares my point of
>>view gotta do with your punk ass replying to a post I made?
>
>Well your obviously not strong enough to face me one on one
>so I made the suggestion cause your a little sensitive. I
>based that on how you took my statement about destroying you
>literaly.

FACE U 1on1??? If I'm not mistaken aren't we communicating one on one already? and just what are you getting at with facing one on one and please don't start that 'I didn't mean it literally' bullshit?

>
>>That makes as much sense as standing on someones lawn and
>>telling the owner they need furniture in their house.
>>and just what the hell does getting a man have to do with
>>anything in this post at all?
>
>Well that seems to be what you need in your life to stand
>firm.

Stand firm on WHAT?

>You base the value of men on who they sleep with as if they
>evil cause they mess with more than one woman.

You lost it already, just where did I say men were evil for sleeping around? See you took EVERYTHING that I've been discussing completely outta pocket. I'm not talking about the er'day Joes that wanna bust a nutt, I'm not talking about er'day Joes PERIOD. I'm referring to those men that claim to be LEADERS, claim to be for their people and will bigmouth to the bank on their claims, but when it comes to stabalizing home, appreciating&respecting the person they claim to love, accounting for their seeds, them same folks come up empty. I'm not talking bout you and your boy who deliver food to the needy on Wednesdays and have orgies on Thursdays, I'm talking bout the mofo's that place themselves in that high&mighty light not realizing that is shines on the shit within their lives.


I guess
>Martin Luther King wasnt an effective leader. Point blank
>you dont know shit.

Your such a cummhead, had you actually read what I said on Jesse(although they're not one in the same) you would have seen where I said that Jesse could have done a whole hellova lot more had he been focused on being a positive leader over getting ass. I think the same goes for Martin, yeah he was a good leader, could have been greater and a helluva lot more effective had he x-ed out that nutt time to focus on leadership and getting shit done.

>You probably one of them broads that got a afro light some
>insense listen to Bob Marley and think you enlightened.
Funny lil fucker, sometimes I fro w/braids, sometimes I were it straight(perm styled), sometimes its twist, and I use to rock it ghetto A-semetric w/ long back style, but your punk ass don't know shit about that and frankly my dear boy you don't know shit about me. Another thing, similar comment(yet more harsh and twisted) was made in the flick 'Barbershop', but would your punkass assume they were a bunch of muslim brothers with dashikis(sp), kufi's and selling bean pies?

Well
>guess what you need to go back to the drawing board. Your
>nothing but a Neo Soul Joan Rivers.

whateva cockhead.
>
>>
>>U sound like one of those cockhead dudes that feel dick is
>>the answer to stopping a woman from being 'uppity'?
>
>No im not unlike you I dont see women as victims.

Now where the hell did I say women are victims? and didn't your punkass just say 'Well that seems to be what you need in your life to stand
>firm' in response to me saying '>>and just what the hell does getting a man have to do with
>>anything in this post at all?
First I need dick to stand firm(?), but yet you don't see women as as victims? Make up your mind.

I see
>women as people who should sleep or not sleep with as many
>people as she chooses. As long as she can handle it alot of
>women cave under the preception of society and think bad of
>themselves if they sleep with more than one person. Also Ive
>been in a commited relationship for 5 going on 6 years and I
>NEVER cheated on my lady.

I find this shit hard to believe considering your against monogamy and soapbox yappin bout your boy and his menashatwa(however thefuck you spellit) and his fantastic health from that shit, but now you wanna lay claim to a 5.5 year monogamous relationship, dude yous full of it.

I just think to each his own mind
>your business and worry about your own backyard which
>obviously needs some tending to.

How do you know what is or is not going on in my backyard?
You lacking and slackin with your post, one minute its hail the cheater and to hell with monogamy, yet you've been in a monogamous relationship for 5.5 years? You sound bout as fuckin dumb & confused as an aetheist/christian.
If you really had a 'to each his/her own' attitude, you could have said just that and left the post alone, but you came on a fuckin tirade bout how healthy promiscuity is, givin folks info on your boy and his personal affairs, and tryna dogg anyone that thought otherwise, but NOW your punkass admits to being in a monogamous relationship, aight Sybil.

As stated before, you chewed your own ass with this post.

>>and as I said, what the hell does getting a man have to do
>with this post?

Well as I said you seem to put all your faith in a man you just a weak broad. Plus what you say is paper thin. You one of them chicks that would destroy a whole movement if your man cheated on you. Say if you dated Malcom X and you found out he cheated on you youd probably assinate him. You would probably air all the dirty laundry to thew white media and say how phony he is. Why all because he got weak or caught up in the moment and cheated on you. See how stupid it is totaly shit on someone for cheating. Or call them phony its irelevant to anything.


>>Know one is biting there tongue on anything. Sense your so
>>dense
>>and ignorant I just thought I would clarify what I meant by
>>what I said. I was obviously over your head on that.
>
>ya momma


Yeah power to the people bringin my mom in this. I didnt say anything about your mom and im not gonna stup that low. I will just let your phony ass get exposed for what it really is.
You just showed how much you care about the community.


>
>FACE U 1on1??? If I'm not mistaken aren't we communicating
>one on one already? and just what are you getting at with
>facing one on one and please don't start that 'I didn't mean
>it literally' bullshit?

Yeah but you start getting sensitive and cant take the heat. I mean you REALLY thought I wanted to destroy physicaly. You know what your right a man has nothing to do with this you just a dumb ass.





See you took EVERYTHING that I've been
>discussing completely outta pocket. I'm not talking about
>the er'day Joes that wanna bust a nutt, I'm not talking
>about er'day Joes PERIOD. I'm referring to those men that
>claim to be LEADERS, claim to be for their people and will
>bigmouth to the bank on their claims, but when it comes to
>stabalizing home, appreciating&respecting the person they
>claim to love, accounting for their seeds, them same folks
>come up empty. I'm not talking bout you and your boy who
>deliver food to the needy on Wednesdays and have orgies on
>Thursdays, I'm talking bout the mofo's that place themselves
>in that high&mighty light not realizing that is shines on
>the shit within their lives.

OK i also agree with some of what you said. I stated that in post #13. But also understand that PEOPLE need to stop placing other PEOPLE in that kind of light. If a man doesnt have followers his power is limited.


>
>I guess
>>Martin Luther King wasnt an effective leader. Point blank
>>you dont know shit.
>
>Your such a cummhead, had you actually read what I said on
>Jesse(although they're not one in the same) you would have
>seen where I said that Jesse could have done a whole hellova
>lot more had he been focused on being a positive leader over
>getting ass. I think the same goes for Martin, yeah he was a
>good leader, could have been greater and a helluva lot more
>effective had he x-ed out that nutt time to focus on
>leadership and getting shit done.

Youre such a cum rag and you would of read that I said Jesse was always corrupt. He is only out for himself he doesnt care about us mistress or no mistress.



>Funny lil fucker, sometimes I fro w/braids, sometimes I were
>it straight(perm styled), sometimes its twist, and I use to
>rock it ghetto A-semetric w/ long back style, but your punk
>ass don't know shit about that and frankly my dear boy you
>don't know shit about me. Another thing, similar comment(yet
>more harsh and twisted) was made in the flick 'Barbershop',
>but would your punkass assume they were a bunch of muslim
>brothers with dashikis(sp), kufi's and selling bean pies?
>

BWAHAHAHHAHAHA yo for real im laughing outloud. I know I touched a nerve with that shit wheew im good. Buy the way this statement shows further how stupid you are. How the fuck you preaching black power with a perm the fuck outta here with that. You might as well bleach your skin and get a nose job to complete the hypocrisy.


>Well
>>guess what you need to go back to the drawing board. Your
>>nothing but a Neo Soul Joan Rivers.
>
>whateva cockhead.
>>
>>>
>>>U sound like one of those cockhead dudes that feel dick is
>>>the answer to stopping a woman from being 'uppity'?
>>
>>No im not unlike you I dont see women as victims.
>
>Now where the hell did I say women are victims? and didn't
>your punkass just say 'Well that seems to be what you need
>in your life to stand
>>firm' in response to me saying '>>and just what the hell does getting a man have to do with
>>>anything in this post at all?
>First I need dick to stand firm(?), but yet you don't see
>women as as victims? Make up your mind.
>

Nah I dont see women as victims. But you your a victim who hides behind activism as a crutch. I can tell your weak and dont stand for shit. Get your mind right before you go snooping in peoples bed rooms like the paprazzi.


>
>How do you know what is or is not going on in my backyard?
>You lacking and slackin with your post, one minute its hail
>the cheater and to hell with monogamy, yet you've been in a
>monogamous relationship for 5.5 years? You sound bout as
>fuckin dumb & confused as an aetheist/christian.
>If you really had a 'to each his/her own' attitude, you
>could have said just that and left the post alone, but you
>came on a fuckin tirade bout how healthy promiscuity is,
>givin folks info on your boy and his personal affairs, and
>tryna dogg anyone that thought otherwise, but NOW your
>punkass admits to being in a monogamous relationship, aight
>Sybil.


First off I never said I wasnt in a commited relationship. What I was tryna point out to your self righteous ass was dont judge others on who they sleep with. Look at the mans work at the end of the day as an activist in the community. See you know what I made a terrible error I forgot your a follower. You cant think on your own apprently otherwise you wouldnt be concerned what other so called leaders are doing. Im all about thinking for self and getting behind agendas to uplift the community not a person. Be your own leader and be accountable for you actions and you wont be let down at the end of the day.

I don't agree with everything my younger brother is saying.That shit is between you and him please leave my Mom's name out of your mouth.

take your reply elsewhere. If your lil bro got the balls to call my sons mom weak and claim that he will DESTROY her, then you and your lil punk ass brother need to double up yall balls and expect for your moms to be talked about as well.

>take your reply elsewhere. If your lil bro got the balls to
>call my sons mom weak and claim that he will DESTROY her,
>then you and your lil punk ass brother need to double up
>yall balls and expect for your moms to be talked about as
>well.


Oh you must be the man im guessing. The bitch is what she is WEAK
so fuck you and your baby mamma. Besides my brother wasnt even being confrontational it was between me and the cum rag you call your baby mamma. You might wanna get a blood test dog.

you're funny.

Aright BITCH since you wanted to go there we can.I was coming at you with respect but now you have taken it to a whole new level.it really shows how immature you are.How you gonna talk about black unity and being a leader when you stoop so low to talk about someone's Mom.All you do is get on a damn computer and talk alot of rhetoric you couldn't lead a horse to a pail of water.

yo momma

Yeah and this is my last time responding to your ass.You are what you are a fucking idiot.

:P

>
>>>and as I said, what the hell does getting a man have to do
>>with this post?
>
>Well as I said you seem to put all your faith in a man you
>just a weak broad. Plus what you say is paper thin. You one
>of them chicks that would destroy a whole movement if your
>man cheated on you. Say if you dated Malcom X and you found
>out he cheated on you youd probably assinate him. You would
>probably air all the dirty laundry to thew white media and
>say how phony he is. Why all because he got weak or caught
>up in the moment and cheated on you. See how stupid it is
>totaly shit on someone for cheating. Or call them phony its
>irelevant to anything.
>
So weakness from a woman is a no-no yet weakness from a man is understandable???... "Why all because he got weak or caught
>up in the moment and cheated on you?"...
AND PLEASE show me where I said I put my faith in man?
>
>>>Know one is biting there tongue on anything. Sense your so
>>>dense
>>>and ignorant I just thought I would clarify what I meant by
>>>what I said. I was obviously over your head on that.
>>
>>ya momma
>
>
>Yeah power to the people bringin my mom in this. I didnt say
>anything about your mom and im not gonna stup that low. I
>will just let your phony ass get exposed for what it really
>is.
>You just showed how much you care about the community.
>
Ya momma, one mo gin. Please don't expect me to respect you or your fam, that was real cute how your bigbrother came to bat for you, yet your punk ass is hollering bout a facetoface? Whateva kid.
>>
>>FACE U 1on1??? If I'm not mistaken aren't we communicating
>>one on one already? and just what are you getting at with
>>facing one on one and please don't start that 'I didn't mean
>>it literally' bullshit?
>
>Yeah but you start getting sensitive and cant take the heat.
>I mean you REALLY thought I wanted to destroy physicaly. You
>know what your right a man has nothing to do with this you
>just a dumb ass.

So you just decided to not even answer the damn question. Biting that tongue again, eh? And speaking on sensitive, why are you and fam cryin over me saying 'yo momma'?
>
>
>
>
> See you took EVERYTHING that I've been
>>discussing completely outta pocket. I'm not talking about
>>the er'day Joes that wanna bust a nutt, I'm not talking
>>about er'day Joes PERIOD. I'm referring to those men that
>>claim to be LEADERS, claim to be for their people and will
>>bigmouth to the bank on their claims, but when it comes to
>>stabalizing home, appreciating&respecting the person they
>>claim to love, accounting for their seeds, them same folks
>>come up empty. I'm not talking bout you and your boy who
>>deliver food to the needy on Wednesdays and have orgies on
>>Thursdays, I'm talking bout the mofo's that place themselves
>>in that high&mighty light not realizing that is shines on
>>the shit within their lives.
>
>OK i also agree with some of what you said. I stated that in
>post #13. But also understand that PEOPLE need to stop
>placing other PEOPLE in that kind of light. If a man doesnt
>have followers his power is limited.

Thing is not to place yourself in that light if your not willing to let it shine completely on you and also no one is placing dude in anylight that he don't want to be placed in, he got his goatmouf ass up on the soapbox, no one pushed him. Also I looked at dude for what he was, a HUMAN BEING, however some folks came into trance from his bullshit, nodding and clapping along, the thing that got me was that it was mostly females. I'm not going to take some mofo for face-value just cause he claims to be the next MLK or Malcolm or the Messiah of our people, and still that human being would still be seen as a human being in my eyes, however if he/she is willing to wear the shine and decoration that comes along with that armour then they should be willing to carry the weight of it as well. Leaders put in work, not just on the homefront but within the home as well. This is why I respect and like Malcolm X, he walked the walk and talked the talk and no he is not someone that I would put my faith in, but he is someone that I admire.
>
>
>>
>>I guess
>>>Martin Luther King wasnt an effective leader. Point blank
>>>you dont know shit.
>>
>>Your such a cummhead, had you actually read what I said on
>>Jesse(although they're not one in the same) you would have
>>seen where I said that Jesse could have done a whole hellova
>>lot more had he been focused on being a positive leader over
>>getting ass. I think the same goes for Martin, yeah he was a
>>good leader, could have been greater and a helluva lot more
>>effective had he x-ed out that nutt time to focus on
>>leadership and getting shit done.
>
>Youre such a cum rag and you would of read that I said Jesse
>was always corrupt. He is only out for himself he doesnt
>care about us mistress or no mistress.

Ya momma, 2mo gins. So I guess you said something new? Looks more like a reply to what was already said about the man, so what was your point?
>
>
>
>>Funny lil fucker, sometimes I fro w/braids, sometimes I were
>>it straight(perm styled), sometimes its twist, and I use to
>>rock it ghetto A-semetric w/ long back style, but your punk
>>ass don't know shit about that and frankly my dear boy you
>>don't know shit about me. Another thing, similar comment(yet
>>more harsh and twisted) was made in the flick 'Barbershop',
>>but would your punkass assume they were a bunch of muslim
>>brothers with dashikis(sp), kufi's and selling bean pies?
>>
>
>BWAHAHAHHAHAHA yo for real im laughing outloud. I know I
>touched a nerve with that shit wheew im good. Buy the way
>this statement shows further how stupid you are. How the
>fuck you preaching black power with a perm the fuck outta
>here with that.

So having a fro makes you Black power? U're too threw kid and once again you have chewed your own ass.
Another thing, just how do you fro hair that is permed? And do you understand the difference between permed hair and a perm style?

You might as well bleach your skin and get a
>nose job to complete the hypocrisy.

Like I said, you chewed your own ass.
>
>
>>Well
>>>guess what you need to go back to the drawing board. Your
>>>nothing but a Neo Soul Joan Rivers.
>>
>>whateva cockhead.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>U sound like one of those cockhead dudes that feel dick is
>>>>the answer to stopping a woman from being 'uppity'?
>>>
>>>No im not unlike you I dont see women as victims.
>>
>>Now where the hell did I say women are victims? and didn't
>>your punkass just say 'Well that seems to be what you need
>>in your life to stand
>>>firm' in response to me saying '>>and just what the hell does getting a man have to do with
>>>>anything in this post at all?
>>First I need dick to stand firm(?), but yet you don't see
>>women as as victims? Make up your mind.
>>
>
>Nah I dont see women as victims. But you your a victim who
>hides behind activism as a crutch.
In what way?

I can tell your weak and
>dont stand for shit. Get your mind right before you go
>snooping in peoples bed rooms like the paprazzi.

Stop repeating yourself, schizo and give the some examples on how I am weak and using activism as a crutch.
>
>
>>
>>How do you know what is or is not going on in my backyard?
>>You lacking and slackin with your post, one minute its hail
>>the cheater and to hell with monogamy, yet you've been in a
>>monogamous relationship for 5.5 years? You sound bout as
>>fuckin dumb & confused as an aetheist/christian.
>>If you really had a 'to each his/her own' attitude, you
>>could have said just that and left the post alone, but you
>>came on a fuckin tirade bout how healthy promiscuity is,
>>givin folks info on your boy and his personal affairs, and
>>tryna dogg anyone that thought otherwise, but NOW your
>>punkass admits to being in a monogamous relationship, aight
>>Sybil.
>
>
>First off I never said I wasnt in a commited relationship.
Naw, you just kept protesting against them(commited relationships).

>What I was tryna point out to your self righteous ass was
>dont judge others on who they sleep with. Look at the mans
>work at the end of the day as an activist in the community.
So are you saying that activism is a 9to5gig, allowing for de-activism in the evening?

>See you know what I made a terrible error I forgot your a
>follower.
Naw, you made way more terrible errors than that, just to name a few:
1) ASSuming that I'm a follower
2) ASSuming that I have a perm
3) ASSuming that permed hair constitutes for not being pro-black or as your dumbass said Black Power.
4)bothering to post that bullshit from your brain

You cant think on your own apprently otherwise you
>wouldnt be concerned what other so called leaders are doing.

Punk please, why are you even bothering to respond to me if your not concerned with what I think of socalled leaders?

>Im all about thinking for self and getting behind agendas to
>uplift the community not a person. Be your own leader and be
>accountable for you actions and you wont be let down at the
>end of the day.

Now had you realized that this was what I was saying all along, we wouldn't be typing back and forth.
I'll say this again, cause evidently it was clearly made the first time. The issue with soapbox dude was not that he was a man, not that he was doggin some chick, but that he had put himself on a soapbox to broadcast this shit. What made the issue worse were the dummies sitting there applauding this bullshit which I walked out on.

However it is strange for someone to up a lifestyle opposite of their own, yet dog the lifestyle in which they are living. You sound very confused giving praise to polygamy while dogging monogamy and then admitting to being in a 5.5yr monogamous relationship. It also sounds like your living vicariously through your boys promiscuity, similar to that of a dude watchin porno.

The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a loving husband, devoted father, spearheaded the civil rights movement, a recognized permanent cultural icon, & a ho. How does this detract from his status in our eyes?

"Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding." EINSTEIN

"The President is a Bush and The Vice President is a Dick. So a whole lotta fuckin' is what we gonna get." Talib

"Women are like parking spaces. The good ones are taken and the rest are handicapped." Just some ish I found humorous.

"What's the difference between a Catholic Priest and acne.....Acne doesn't come on your face til you're 14." OUCH

In truth his good works (which really do outweigh his bad) should be noted first, however you have folks that will feast upon the negative (i.e.) Barbershop. Not once did they mention the good stuff King did, but took 15mins or more to joke on King being a hoe and celebrating Kings birthday by getting your freak on. Now this may not seem like a big hubbub to folks, however shorties(teens/kids) that can comprehend got a kick out of this and despite all of the celebrations throughout elementary school in recognition of King and his good works, none of the kids I heard knew even one line beyond 'I have a dream' of Dr. Kings 'I have a dream' speech, but were quick to quote Cedric the Entertainers lines word for word.

No we can't hide the truth of situations, I don't wish to, however if someone decides to place themselves on the forefront of moral standing, then they need to live up to it. This doesn't just go for the community leaders and headstrong activist, but for the preachers/priest and teachers too.
How you gone lead a community when your home life is in shambles?
How you gone call yourself an activist from 9-5 and then de-activate yourself after hours?
How you gone preach to a congregation on the right way to live when your not practicing it yourself?
How you gone call yourself a teacher but teach half-ass, and if a teacher's own child is not doing well in school or being abused at home then why would a parent subject their child to them?

Last bit of rant. I do appreciate the things that Dr.King stood for and was about, but its quite a harsh blow when you know there are people that wish to do nothing more than destroy a positive being because of his faults or shortcomings. Knowing what we know today of how our leaders were probed, it would seem that folks that claim themselves leaders would try their best to keep there closet as tidy as possible, rather than setting themselves up for their enemies to pull bones from their closets at the most inconvient of times (bigrally's, elections, etc.).

>>
>So weakness from a woman is a no-no yet weakness from a man
>is understandable???... "Why all because he got weak or
>caught
>>up in the moment and cheated on you?"...
>AND PLEASE show me where I said I put my faith in man?

I was making a judgement call the way you seem to so caught up in wanna be malcoms.

>Ya momma, one mo gin. Please don't expect me to respect you
>or your fam, that was real cute how your bigbrother came to
>bat for you, yet your punk ass is hollering bout a
>facetoface? Whateva kid.

Actually I didnt even know he replied till just now.
But hey whateva I see you got your pussy whipped MAYBE baby daddy to reply also.



>>>
>>>FACE U 1on1??? If I'm not mistaken aren't we communicating
>>>one on one already? and just what are you getting at with
>>>facing one on one and please don't start that 'I didn't mean
>>>it literally' bullshit?
>>
>>Yeah but you start getting sensitive and cant take the heat.
>>I mean you REALLY thought I wanted to destroy physicaly. You
>>know what your right a man has nothing to do with this you
>>just a dumb ass.
>
>So you just decided to not even answer the damn question.
>Biting that tongue again, eh? And speaking on sensitive, why
>are you and fam cryin over me saying 'yo momma'

Again I did not ask him to reply and I did answer the question


>>OK i also agree with some of what you said. I stated that in
>>post #13. But also understand that PEOPLE need to stop
>>placing other PEOPLE in that kind of light. If a man doesnt
>>have followers his power is limited.
>
>Thing is not to place yourself in that light if your not
>willing to let it shine completely on you and also no one is
>placing dude in anylight that he don't want to be placed in,
>he got his goatmouf ass up on the soapbox, no one pushed
>him. Also I looked at dude for what he was, a HUMAN BEING,
>however some folks came into trance from his bullshit,
>nodding and clapping along, the thing that got me was that
>it was mostly females. I'm not going to take some mofo for
>face-value just cause he claims to be the next MLK or
>Malcolm or the Messiah of our people, and still that human
>being would still be seen as a human being in my eyes,
>however if he/she is willing to wear the shine and
>decoration that comes along with that armour then they
>should be willing to carry the weight of it as well. Leaders
>put in work, not just on the homefront but within the home
>as well. This is why I respect and like Malcolm X, he walked
>the walk and talked the talk and no he is not someone that I
>would put my faith in, but he is someone that I admire.

Ok well I guess we are saying the same thing. But why even make a post about it. We all know people follow corrupt leaders.


>>
>>>
>>>I guess
>>>>Martin Luther King wasnt an effective leader. Point blank
>>>>you dont know shit.
>>>
>>>Your such a cummhead, had you actually read what I said on
>>>Jesse(although they're not one in the same) you would have
>>>seen where I said that Jesse could have done a whole hellova
>>>lot more had he been focused on being a positive leader over
>>>getting ass. I think the same goes for Martin, yeah he was a
>>>good leader, could have been greater and a helluva lot more
>>>effective had he x-ed out that nutt time to focus on
>>>leadership and getting shit done.
>>
>>Youre such a cum rag and you would of read that I said Jesse
>>was always corrupt. He is only out for himself he doesnt
>>care about us mistress or no mistress.
>
>Ya momma, 2mo gins. So I guess you said something new? Looks
>more like a reply to what was already said about the man, so
>what was your point?

Well you didnt say anything new either whats your point?


>>
>>
>>
>>>Funny lil fucker, sometimes I fro w/braids, sometimes I were
>>>it straight(perm styled), sometimes its twist, and I use to
>>>rock it ghetto A-semetric w/ long back style, but your punk
>>>ass don't know shit about that and frankly my dear boy you
>>>don't know shit about me. Another thing, similar comment(yet
>>>more harsh and twisted) was made in the flick 'Barbershop',
>>>but would your punkass assume they were a bunch of muslim
>>>brothers with dashikis(sp), kufi's and selling bean pies?
>>>
>>
>>BWAHAHAHHAHAHA yo for real im laughing outloud. I know I
>>touched a nerve with that shit wheew im good. Buy the way
>>this statement shows further how stupid you are. How the
>>fuck you preaching black power with a perm the fuck outta
>>here with that.
>
>So having a fro makes you Black power? U're too threw kid
>and once again you have chewed your own ass.
>Another thing, just how do you fro hair that is permed? And
>do you understand the difference between permed hair and a
>perm style?

Honestly nah I dont no the difference between permed hair and permed style. I just figure a perm is a perm.


>
>You might as well bleach your skin and get a
>>nose job to complete the hypocrisy.
>
>Like I said, you chewed your own ass.

Whateva go fry your hair.


>>
>>>Well
>>>>guess what you need to go back to the drawing board. Your
>>>>nothing but a Neo Soul Joan Rivers.
>>>
>>>whateva cockhead.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>U sound like one of those cockhead dudes that feel dick is
>>>>>the answer to stopping a woman from being 'uppity'?
>>>>
>>>>No im not unlike you I dont see women as victims.
>>>
>>>Now where the hell did I say women are victims? and didn't
>>>your punkass just say 'Well that seems to be what you need
>>>in your life to stand
>>>>firm' in response to me saying '>>and just what the hell does getting a man have to do with
>>>>>anything in this post at all?
>>>First I need dick to stand firm(?), but yet you don't see
>>>women as as victims? Make up your mind.
>>>
>>
>>Nah I dont see women as victims. But you your a victim who
>>hides behind activism as a crutch.
>In what way?
>
>I can tell your weak and
>>dont stand for shit. Get your mind right before you go
>>snooping in peoples bed rooms like the paprazzi.
>
>Stop repeating yourself, schizo and give the some examples
>on how I am weak and using activism as a crutch.

Just go back and read the post you may see it then. But hers one
the way you talk about men and sexuality is as if the woman has know say in it. Like the woman doesnt come on to men. We all know thats hardly the case it takes 2 to tangle.

>>
>>>
>>>How do you know what is or is not going on in my backyard?
>>>You lacking and slackin with your post, one minute its hail
>>>the cheater and to hell with monogamy, yet you've been in a
>>>monogamous relationship for 5.5 years? You sound bout as
>>>fuckin dumb & confused as an aetheist/christian.
>>>If you really had a 'to each his/her own' attitude, you
>>>could have said just that and left the post alone, but you
>>>came on a fuckin tirade bout how healthy promiscuity is,
>>>givin folks info on your boy and his personal affairs, and
>>>tryna dogg anyone that thought otherwise, but NOW your
>>>punkass admits to being in a monogamous relationship, aight
>>>Sybil.
>>
>>
>>First off I never said I wasnt in a commited relationship.
>Naw, you just kept protesting against them(commited
>relationships).
>
>>What I was tryna point out to your self righteous ass was
>>dont judge others on who they sleep with. Look at the mans
>>work at the end of the day as an activist in the community.
>So are you saying that activism is a 9to5gig, allowing for
>de-activism in the evening?
>
>>See you know what I made a terrible error I forgot your a
>>follower.
>Naw, you made way more terrible errors than that, just to
>name a few:
>1) ASSuming that I'm a follower

You came off as one otherwise you wouldnt even be addressing so called leaders and there bedroom practices.

>2) ASSuming that I have a perm

Bitch you said you permed your hair im not assuming anything.

>3) ASSuming that permed hair constitutes for not being
>pro-black or as your dumbass said Black Power.

Yeah well thats a whole nother post but how can you scream black pride then go and burn the roots of your hair. Now thats hypocrisy cause to me your running from your true image.


>4)bothering to post that bullshit from your brain

Yeah yeah whateva

>
>You cant think on your own apprently otherwise you
>>wouldnt be concerned what other so called leaders are doing.
>
>Punk please, why are you even bothering to respond to me if
>your not concerned with what I think of socalled leaders?

The same reason why your dumbass is responding to me to prove a point.

>>Im all about thinking for self and getting behind agendas to
>>uplift the community not a person. Be your own leader and be
>>accountable for you actions and you wont be let down at the
>>end of the day.
>
>Now had you realized that this was what I was saying all
>along, we wouldn't be typing back and forth.
>I'll say this again, cause evidently it was clearly made the
>first time. The issue with soapbox dude was not that he was
>a man, not that he was doggin some chick, but that he had
>put himself on a soapbox to broadcast this shit. What made
>the issue worse were the dummies sitting there applauding
>this bullshit which I walked out on.

I guess we would of saved ourselves alot of time. Oh well it was fun anyway.


>
>However it is strange for someone to up a lifestyle opposite
>of their own, yet dog the lifestyle in which they are
>living. You sound very confused giving praise to polygamy
>while dogging monogamy and then admitting to being in a
>5.5yr monogamous relationship. It also sounds like your
>living vicariously through your boys promiscuity, similar to
>that of a dude watchin porno.


BWHAHAHAHA now that was funny in fact that was your best one yet.
But thats hardly the case im happpy in my relationship. I showed this post to my girl and she thought you wasnt to bright either.
But anyway you seemed to have cleared certain things up so im cool.

.

>>Other countries in the world laugh at our sexual
>restrictions.

>
>>>Other countries in the world laugh at our sexual
>>restrictions.

Brazil and France.

Who going to listen to someone who's family structure is unstable...foundation starts in the home first. Your wife is the backbone and support for any man. And to break that commitment with her would be very hypocritical.....



"The camel never sees its own hump but that of its brothers is always before its eyes"- N.African proverb

Wives but of course since its islam thats not cheating.
It not wrong if you believe in islam huh.
But if I dont believe in your religion then its wrong to have more than one woman. I think are whole problem in society is religion in the first place. It removes us from reality thats why know one is proactive because they wating for that pie in the sky.

Cheating on your wife most certainly IS a matter for the community, for a union between man and woman, is the foundation for the start of a family(children), and families collectively are what make up our community. That is why when a Sistah's man 'steps out' she: a.) turns to her mother for support b.) turns to her Sistah-friends for advice, or vice-versa. It's a COMMUNITY issue anytime a home becomes broken, and cheating puts a family in danger of ending up broken. That is ALSO why in African-American marriage ceremonies, the minister will often speak to the church before pronouncing the couple man and wife, and advise them that there is a collective responsibility to keep this union in tact. I have seen that in many African-American wedding ceremonies. Why? Because a union of two is NOT just between the two people. It's between their families. It's between their respective neighborhoods. It's a matter for the whole community! I don't know how whitefolks do it. For US though, marriage CLEARLY is understood to be a matter for the community. That is why women for YEARS have written into Essence magazine appealing to other Sistahs to STOP sleeping with married men. If the men won't live up to a certain standard, according to married Sistahs, they appeal to the women with whom the husbands try to cheat to have the courage and discipline to say 'No'. What is that other than an appeal from married Sistahs to the Black community, for assistance in keeping marriage, and it's sacredness, in tact?


>> if I cheat on my wife thats
>between me and my wife. It has nothing to do with the rest
>of the black community.

>Cheating on your wife most certainly IS a matter for the
>community, for a union between man and woman, is the
>foundation for the start of a family(children), and families
>collectively are what make up our community. That is why
>when a Sistah's man 'steps out' she: a.) turns to her mother
>for support b.) turns to her Sistah-friends for advice, or
>vice-versa. It's a COMMUNITY issue anytime a home becomes
>broken, and cheating puts a family in danger of ending up
>broken. That is ALSO why in African-American marriage
>ceremonies, the minister will often speak to the church
>before pronouncing the couple man and wife, and advise them
>that there is a collective responsibility to keep this union
>in tact. I have seen that in many African-American wedding
>ceremonies. Why? Because a union of two is NOT just between
>the two people. It's between their families. It's between
>their respective neighborhoods. It's a matter for the whole
>community! I don't know how whitefolks do it. For US though,
>marriage CLEARLY is understood to be a matter for the
>community. That is why women for YEARS have written into
>Essence magazine appealing to other Sistahs to STOP sleeping
>with married men. If the men won't live up to a certain
>standard, according to married Sistahs, they appeal to the
>women with whom the husbands try to cheat to have the
>courage and discipline to say 'No'. What is that other than
>an appeal from married Sistahs to the Black community, for
>assistance in keeping marriage, and it's sacredness, in
>tact?

That nice that you think that way. But in the real world you could get killed messing around in someones marital affairs.
Understand if I cheat on my wife yo can tell me its not a good thing to do. But uh if you were to tell my wife hey your husband is cheating you might catch a bullet in the ass. Its cool to look after the kids in the neighborhood and steer them the right way. As far as what to grown people do you gotta stay outta that.
Well Like ive stated before that church, spiritual, or islamic laws dont mean ANYTHING to me. I dont believe in it so you talking to the wrong brother about church.

>>Cheating on your wife most certainly IS a matter for the
>>community, for a union between man and woman, is the
>>foundation for the start of a family(children), and families
>>collectively are what make up our community. That is why
>>when a Sistah's man 'steps out' she: a.) turns to her mother
>>for support b.) turns to her Sistah-friends for advice, or
>>vice-versa. It's a COMMUNITY issue anytime a home becomes
>>broken, and cheating puts a family in danger of ending up
>>broken. That is ALSO why in African-American marriage
>>ceremonies, the minister will often speak to the church
>>before pronouncing the couple man and wife, and advise them
>>that there is a collective responsibility to keep this union
>>in tact. I have seen that in many African-American wedding
>>ceremonies. Why? Because a union of two is NOT just between
>>the two people. It's between their families. It's between
>>their respective neighborhoods. It's a matter for the whole
>>community! I don't know how whitefolks do it. For US though,
>>marriage CLEARLY is understood to be a matter for the
>>community. That is why women for YEARS have written into
>>Essence magazine appealing to other Sistahs to STOP sleeping
>>with married men. If the men won't live up to a certain
>>standard, according to married Sistahs, they appeal to the
>>women with whom the husbands try to cheat to have the
>>courage and discipline to say 'No'. What is that other than
>>an appeal from married Sistahs to the Black community, for
>>assistance in keeping marriage, and it's sacredness, in
>>tact?
>
>That nice that you think that way. But in the real world you
>could get killed messing around in someones marital affairs.
>Understand if I cheat on my wife yo can tell me its not a
>good thing to do. But uh if you were to tell my wife hey
>your husband is cheating you might catch a bullet in the
>ass. Its cool to look after the kids in the neighborhood and
>steer them the right way. As far as what to grown people do
>you gotta stay outta that.
>Well Like ive stated before that church, spiritual, or
>islamic laws dont mean ANYTHING to me. I dont believe in it
>so you talking to the wrong brother about church.

"The camel never sees its own hump but that of its brothers is always before its eyes"- N.African proverb

I'm clearly talking to the wrong brother, PERIOD. We are on different levels, Brah. I'll just leave u w/ that.


>>Like ive stated before that church, spiritual, or
>islamic laws dont mean ANYTHING to me. I dont believe in it
>so you talking to the wrong brother about church.

but i agree with several of the things others have stated.a persons character allows you to choose how to deal with them. but you are concerned with the wrong thing if your concerned about man's weakness oppose to his words. now if hes saying do this this and this with women whatever the practice states and then not following what he preaches then thats something to judge everything else that comes from there mouths. cause obviously you arent doing research on your own to trust what a person is saying. i'm trying to say this so yall can understand me. got it, there is no need for a preacher for those who are already engaged in learning knowledge. besides to remind them of that which they are studying and to bring those people together. so you can judge these preachers and make sure they are not leading anyone astray if you know your ish. cause if he's weak to women he's most def. weak to man. and submission to spoon fed knowledge.
peace




















-you only got one life to live so all my children its better to give then recieve life is short days of our lives seem to speed still waiting for the day they legalize weed/
i'm tired of dreamin i wanna hit the big screenan but keep an open eye for those cats that stay schemin
~shyheim and folks (1999)



-ase7 productions future projects in film!!!

http://members.blackplanet.com/pistachio/

>but i agree with several of the things others have stated.a
>persons character allows you to choose how to deal with
>them. but you are concerned with the wrong thing if your
>concerned about man's weakness oppose to his words.

Yep


>hes saying do this this and this with women whatever the
>practice states and then not following what he preaches then
>thats something to judge everything else that comes from
>there mouths. cause obviously you arent doing research on
>your own to trust what a person is saying.

I agree with that if a dude is saying be faithful and claims to be a leader in a religion where its wrong to have more than one wife than hes not true to his word. Especialy if he is calling others sinners for the same actions he partakes in behind closed doors.

and the exact reason why I had to walk up out that shit. But I think about the women that just clapped along and egged dude on like a congregation to a blasphemous preacher, its sad and really its just the same thing just with a new look and catering to a younger age.

>>It's like some brothers preach and preach and PREACH! of
>>uplifting Black minds and providing better futures for Black
>>children, yet they'll cheat and lie to the woman/women they
>>share their bed and bodies with.
>
>Well thats between the man and the woman he has a
>relationship with. His actions in bed doesnt make the truths
>he speak any less truthful.

it depends on the situation at hand. if you have committed yourself to this person and you betray that commitment (when you HAVE agreed to a "westernized standard" or whatever), your carelessness is going to cause pain & suffering to those closest to you. one indiscretion is one thing, but several?

and even outside of that...i know exactly what the poster means. i've seen soooo many "conscious" brothers treat their women like shit. whether thru subordination, mental abuse, or just plain disrespect. yet they claim to be working for the good of us all...you can't have it both ways. to build a strong community you have to strengthen the mothers of that community...

in some situations, i think it might be more feasible to separate the person from the message, i.e. the music business.

but when you are trying to uplift a community, be an example of your people's greatness, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard and work towards it constantly. that personal example will allow you to be a greater force in your community.

e.g., a reverend/preacher has NO business being a "dog". his/her own faith considers that sort of behavior taboo. in that situation, the person is a vessel for the divine. they should be the best human beings they can possibly be, and that requires faithfulness to a spouse.




_____________________________
"The IAEA's experience in nuclear verification shows that it is possible, particularly with an intrusive verification system, to assess the presence or absence of a nuclear weapons program in a state even without the full co-operation of the inspected state." ~Mohamed ElBaradei







guess what? there's only one planet. nukes = homelessness.

is a polygamist, and his wife is fully aware of and in support of it, that is one thing. Lying to, cheating on, and sneaking around behind your Queen's back is another other.

>is a polygamist, and his wife is fully aware of and in
>support of it, that is one thing. Lying to, cheating on, and
>sneaking around behind your Queen's back is another other.

That maybe true but both are his business whether he does it forth right or sneaks.

i been saying this for years...but brother be on some ol' "awww, you married, these ladies is dangerous...cant trust em." they htink i'm hating...and they think i'm being judgemental since i'm married and mt wife is cool as ice (thank you Allah)!!

i think it's bs.

i think many black women and men, just dont have family skills......we have lost them and we need to regain them...our future, no, our very existence truly hangs in the balance...

-Saracen

"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

i don't have a relationship w/ my father, sister, brother's like that

that's why i have that i don't give a fuck about shit sometimes chip on my shoulder

it all starts at home, we definately need to work on re-building the family unit in order for us to progress

~either stand tall or sit the fuck down~mos def

"Then Columbus didn't find anything, he was simply lost. if I take a boat to England once I get there, regardless of how, can I simply rename the place...Harlem?"-Aquaman

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

a lot of brother will cover up theri inability to commit w/ word play....monogomy is an insitution created by God (if you believe in God)....

a truly monogomous relationship is a beautiful, spiritual thing if you are lucky enough to have one.....polygamy begame legal in Islam because after the battle of Uhud (i think) many men were killed....many women were left without financial, mental and spritual security of a mate......it is not a sensual journey....

in fact, i just heard a lecture where in Mauritania.....most of the men have one wife...because the women of that region know their rights in Islam as women and put a clause in their marriage contract that they be the only wife....and the men adhere to it...because they to know the power and beauty of monogomy.....in many other parts of the Muslim world most of the owmen unforutnately are not taught theri rights as women and do not know they can have that clause in their marriage contract.....

but love is real....

-Saracen

"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

"The camel never sees its own hump but that of its brothers is always before its eyes"- N.African proverb

a lof of these women out ehre are crazy...YES, i'm talking about the sisters. before i got married, I knew a few sisters who were not fit man....some were career freaks...others were revolutionary lesbians in training.......who began to HATE ALL MEN as they came into their blackness.....a lot of sisters wear all these head wraps.....but they are just as promiscuos as they were when they were dressed like freaks on teh ave.....no doubt this issue plauges us on both sides.....

a lof of these sister burn nag champa, do spoke word at the coffee house, get some african prints in their apt. and get fela kuti's greates hits.....and think they have arrived......but morally, spiritually and menatally, many stay highyl undeveleoped.....same is true for dudes.....but used to know a lot of these kinds of women personally....and it is no wonder that they are still single and confused today. Not one of the condused sisters i dated before i got married to my wife, are married now....they are all baby mommas with several daddies, career bed hoppers/groupies or are just psudeo-lesbo man haters....The black community has GANGS of them.

-Saracen

"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

freewill or submission to reach that which you wish to obtain. this is a 50/50 contribution to the problem. i don't like the fact that they state monogamy as being american. ok everything we've effing picked up is based on american progression. (ie this afro, locs, and other stuff) granite we've also reached into several other cultures to build a " conscious culture". i'm like if your going to be afrocentric bring it to the traditions of africa before america was established. go way way way back.
but the thing with islam is that the islam in america is different from that which is outside of this country. and they have established standards based on a dislike for certain things in the american culture. you can't tell me that monogamy is american and wear a suit and bow tie as if thats not american. or be about capitalism as if thats not american. this is where truth steps in. ok yall with me. based on the society we live in their is a demand to eliminate that which is a downfall. ie covering the body because we are attracted to certain things that is a truth. eyes instinctly create a sense of attraction in the body when it recognizes beauty. i wont go to deep but there are over all truths and the truths that exist individualisticly per human that can be backed up but can also be debated.
ok i'm going to say this and i hope it doesnt offend anyone.(but if it does help me to see another side) but from my recent thoughts on the n.o.i. i believe they are able to be simply because they take in the weak, the lost, some of the lowest walks of life, who like everyone else has the quest for truth, knowledge, understanding, and love as a part of their life mission and feeds them something that seems so great far before they are given the chance to think. i mean really think. its like a cure for those who are down and for those who have already been thinking or get that chance to see another light stop taking the medicine. thats why people leave the religion. it is the same system of several other religions and several other systems in life.
i know i strayed from the topic of the post a little but this falls in line. leaders have been proven to work. so has the family structure. the problem is that there is a far greater demand for us to progess as people in knowledge and other things that things like family become left behind. a leader cant be a family man unless hes leading the cause to bring back the family. the leaders who lack in the family field are not fighting for family. a leader must belong to the nation to the cause.
(just something for ya'll to think about)

peace





























-you only got one life to live so all my children its better to give then recieve life is short days of our lives seem to speed still waiting for the day they legalize weed/
i'm tired of dreamin i wanna hit the big screenan but keep an open eye for those cats that stay schemin
~shyheim and folks (1999)



-ase7 productions future projects in film!!!

http://members.blackplanet.com/pistachio/

i tried putting in paragraphs. and i forgot to say that i'm not saying that the things the n.o.i. preaches is not truth but that everything else in the practice is questionable.
peace













-you only got one life to live so all my children its better to give then recieve life is short days of our lives seem to speed still waiting for the day they legalize weed/
i'm tired of dreamin i wanna hit the big screenan but keep an open eye for those cats that stay schemin
~shyheim and folks (1999)



-ase7 productions future projects in film!!!

http://members.blackplanet.com/pistachio/

as i'm a traditional Muslim. but i wear t-shirts and khakis one day and a kufi and a thobe the next....i do not see Islam as being innately anti-american.....though i used to. but i do see your point- to a point.

-Saracen

"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

yeah

ok

>but love is real....

its like not only have we lost our sense of family but most of us seem scared as hell of it as if its the end to our social existence. I gotta admit I was myself.

.......

or is Tyson looking more and more like ReddFoxx?

its u lol

Check the Sexism in the Black Community post.


"I'm an orange moon,reflecting the light of the sun" Badu

came to mind when reading this. This sentiment is unfortunately in equal footing, I know many a brother who live by and attempt to spread the ideas of Malcom, Martin, Marcus, Amiri and such...but act like straight dogs (and this is not personal, i'm talking about college buddies, co-workers etc.) when it comes to women. It can be quite perplexing to deal with at times, expecially when this type of behavior comes from generally good men.

As I said before, Dead Prez groupies come to mind because this behavior is found amongst women as well. I know quite a few sistas that get down just as dirty as some men behind closed doors, yet claim to be as righteous as the Virgin Mary herself.

just a thought.....

its like why talk the talk if you aint willing to walk the walk?
and in a lot of ways it does hurt positive movements, the first thing that comes to mind is the heartbreak that Malcolm must have felt after fighting for the honor of Elijah Muhammed only to find out the 'lies' were true.

i hate to sound prude...ubt a lot of people like 18-23 are expending their sexual selves in ways that should be saved for their soulmates...it's sad to see. It's on a totally nother level when you are making love to your signifigant other and you KNOW htye love you....you KNOW they stay loyal to you...andthey KNOW you will stay loyal to them..... nothing matches that....what I have with my wife cannot be compared to my single days.....I know a LOT of people who are married but they always talk about how bad one freak from way back was.....i hardly rememebr old chicks i was with....face, body all that....cause when i got with my wife...she was so much doper physically, mentally, spiritually...i have no time to reminicse....

-Saracen

"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

I can't seem to understand why someone would even bother going through the action$$$ of marriage if its not to someone that captures them or stands above those of their past.

As Prince said 'when I'm with you... I have NO PAST' and that is truly the way love should be. And James Brown's 'I don't care about your past, I just want this love to last', that saying right there could be focused in more than a couple of ways, rather it be one partner dwelling on the others past lovers, kids or what somebody else has told them about the person they claim to be in love with.

I think you give some great examples, keep em coming.

Can U get w/ Dolly's folks, and clone Urself??? When it's all said and done, over and beyond pecs, tight rear-ends, six-packs, and whatEVER, there is NOTHING sexier than a man, who is committed to his wife, and devoted to his children. PERIOD.


>>>i hardly rememebr old chicks i was
>with....face, body all that....cause when i got with my
>wife...she was so much doper physically, mentally,
>spiritually...i have no time to reminicse....

-you only got one life to live so all my children its better to give then recieve life is short days of our lives seem to speed still waiting for the day they legalize weed/
i'm tired of dreamin i wanna hit the big screenan but keep an open eye for those cats that stay schemin
~shyheim and folks (1999)



-ase7 productions future projects in film!!!

http://members.blackplanet.com/pistachio/

The most popular belief for muslims/"the righteous" is not eating pork. It's also the easiest to do.

I remember "enlightened" cats were always with the "no pork". They were doing everything else, but heaven forbid you talk about swine lol

"I don't eat pork", but they were still with McDonalds, cigarettes, beer, hoes, Pepsi, etc...

sounds like my ex...religion preached everywhere but in the bedroom and with the spliff.

so funny yet so true

the list goes on and on unfortunately.

I think it is bigger than that. I think that (1) A lot of young brothers have bought into a lot of the sexist (obvious and subtle) ideas of past leaders, and (2) the idea perpetuated in the media and other places of that sexually promiscuity and prowess are inherent and even celebrated in the black man - therefore it is "ok".

This weekend I was/still am reading Killing Rage – Ending Racism by bell hooks. In that she speaks a lot about how our past leaders that you name supported patriarchy and viewed is as essential to uplifting the black race. What she claims they did not understand is that patriarchy and sexism are pillars right next to racism in this system of oppression. She also made an interesting point of the problem of the ideas of the integrity black masculinity in with the integrity of the race as being interchangeable.

So you have these brothers that come to school and take some classes, particularly those of African American studies and don’t take the time to critically read these works and understand that although these men had revolutionary visions they were not perfect and their support of patriarchy was a flaw. Then they want to try and emulate that in their relationships with women. Their theories become a patchwork of ideas from romanticizing polygamy to putting the black women on a sexist pedestal.

I know you probably met (and I am stereotyping here though I have ran across many) those vegan brothers with the locks, usually longwinded and arrogant. Intelligent as hell and always reading up on black people, politics, etc. Their rap consists of “…once the Black woman understands her place as the mother of this and the bearer of that….” But I think that is bullshit because is just perpetuating the idea of women’s place in uplifting our people as only the producer of children, as only the nurturer, as only a sexual and servile being, and we should just take pride in that. Our position is just uplifting from in the bedroom and behind the stove.

I've came across many of those brothers, and yeah they are always on that '...you need to see the queen in you and respect yourself', but I question them on just how in the hell do they know if I do or do not see the queen in me and just what the hell do they mean by respect myself?
Sad thing about it is that some of these mofos be having 2-3 kids by 2 baby mommas who they never refer to and the kids are usually found out about by accident or dude will dog her and the way she lives and raises their seed. One nemcompoot dropped all that 'but my Sistah' bs then started defiling his babymoms. I was like how are you going to talk all that mess then dogg your sons mother, I mean there had to have been something special about her for yall to have been together and created life together and he came with the same sorry ass line I hear from one 2 many cats 'I didn't know she was like she was' along with 'I was wild back then too, but I've changed my ways', yet dude still dogs the mother of his child. This aint to say she is or is not what he says, but if dude really wanted to uplift women he would probably do best starting with the mother of his seed(s).
I kinda went on a personal rant with this, my bad, but I feel you on the 'just here to bear kids' bit, I've lost count of how many dudes began to side step as I came up. Matter of fact I got a long ass story to tell on that but I'll shorten as much as possible.
I was working for a Black theater in the Chi. When I came on board, folks were warm, guys(mostly old heads) especially and gave me that 'good to see a young sistah with her head on her shoulders' bullshit. As time went on, niggers(and I do mean niggers) began to start that 'can you hang with the big boys' bullshit and started sabotaging my work. The straw that broke the camels back was when we had a prodomenately female production(female:producer/writer,director, set designer, wardrobe, and cast(w/ one male actor)). However the stage manager and hands were mostly men. Anyway I asked this asshole(stage manager) to paint a floor 2 weeks before the opening, I come into the theater to see if everything is up to par, top it off I was there til 5 in the mornin the day before making sure the other needs were met and had even spoken to this cat throughout the damn day from my 9to5 to make sure he had the floor finished by 3pm. I come in bout 6pm and another fool(who is buddy/buddy w/ the first) is painting the damn floor less than an hour before showtime. Luckily the play went well, but the stickiness of the paint did cause some problems for the actors walking and dancing(yes the actors had to dance on a sticky floor). Now I had had my share of sexism from whitemales school and workwise and in the same industry, but to have grown ass Black men take on the vindictiveness of the same men that treated them that way, just pissed me the fuck off. It also brought to mind 'the Color Purple' and how mista took on the slave master mentality throwing it in full load on Ceely.
Anyway I definately need to pick up hooks, sorry for the rant.

>Now
>I had had my share of sexism from whitemales school and
>workwise and in the same industry, but to have grown ass
>Black men take on the vindictiveness of the same men that
>treated them that way, just pissed me the fuck off.

yes, it hurts - especially (as my case has been in the past) if you begin to respect them and then realize they don't respect you because you are a woman.

It also
>brought to mind 'the Color Purple' and how mista took on the
>slave master mentality throwing it in full load on Ceely.
>Anyway I definately need to pick up hooks, sorry for the
>rant.

Lol, no problem. It is worth the read, she gives a voice to young black women trying to be about something.

i plan on rereading it soon



_____________________________
"The IAEA's experience in nuclear verification shows that it is possible, particularly with an intrusive verification system, to assess the presence or absence of a nuclear weapons program in a state even without the full co-operation of the inspected state." ~Mohamed ElBaradei







guess what? there's only one planet. nukes = homelessness.

the Intelligent As Hell(whatever THAT means) loced Brothahs are right in this, because to be able to uplift from the bedroom and behind the stove(or better yet, using NO STOVE AT ALL) is a VERY power position to be in. I understand and appreciate your point though. We don't ONLY have to be relegated to those two positions in order to exert power. Don't sleep on those two positions though. Revolutions can be started or thwarted by women right from those very places....


“…once the Black woman understands her place as
>the mother of this and the bearer of that….” But I think
>that is bullshit because is just perpetuating the idea of
>women’s place in uplifting our people as only the producer
>of children, as only the nurturer, as only a sexual and
>servile being, and we should just take pride in that. Our
>position is just uplifting from in the bedroom and behind
>the stove.

TRUE TRUE...

but it comes down to whether the women do stay home (kitchen, stove, etc etc) do so out of choice....and then also, brother need to support and appreciate them in that too...

the brothers need to be there right along side of them

ask those brothers who like to sell that idea would they be willing to stay at home while you fight the revolution...

have to stay @ home to get these things done. My mother worked three jobs, AND managed to do a Soul Food-type Sunday dinner for us every week(Week-days she did breakfast, and dinner was left-overs, or a free-for-all. hey, w/ 3 damn jobs, SOMEthing had to give, right?) Unfortunately, what she was feeding us was a typical Soul Food diet, so it was not on point nutritionally. Now I don't have children, but I can DEFINITELY speak to the difference that I have made in Brothah's diets by simply being in a relationship with them, and being the one who prepares the food. It is not a FIGHT THE POWER, stand on a soapbox w/ a bullhorn, kind of stance, but it IS powerful, and CAN make a difference. Even when babysitting other folk's children, I've done the same thing. My best friend's daughter was EIGHT YEARS OLD before she had ever had greens before! That was over my house. When I gave her her plate, she was like, "What is THAT?" I said, "You've never seen greens before? Not even @ Thanksgiving?!" "No," she answered innocently. "We eat potatoes @ Thanksgiving. And creamed corn." I thought to myself, 'Damn. Even the corn has to be defiled.' I didn't speak a word more. I just gave her the greens, because I did not want to call her mother out to her like that. Next time I saw my friend, when we were alone, I started talking to her non-chalantly about diet. When she was pregnant most recently, she asked me to bring her some food in the hospital, to give her a break from hospital food. My mother gave me a hard time about not buying her a burger. I brought her a salad, with tea. She was like, "Wow. What is this lettuce you've put in here? It's not white and brown, like regular lettuce. Is it supposed to be healthier for you." "Yes," I replied. "It's called romaine lettuce." I know this is off the original topic, but you know, to paraphrase Talib Kweli again, silence can be as loud as a clap of thunder. THAT is how women best exert our power: SILENTLY, and SUBTLELY. It's taken me 3 decades to learn that.
>
>but it comes down to whether the women do stay home
>(kitchen, stove, etc etc) do so out of choice....and then
>also, brother need to support and appreciate them in that
>too...

the revolution includes some good nutrition, good child raising, ect etc....

i think the bggest problem is that these things are considered "duties" something that has to be done...and not actual work that women or men put in FOR THE CAUSE...

if i can figure out a way to stay home and work i'd do it...u know beat them kids, cook some mean food...hehee

>have to stay @ home to get these things done. My mother
>worked three jobs, AND managed to do a Soul Food-type Sunday
>dinner for us every week(Week-days she did breakfast, and
>dinner was left-overs, or a free-for-all. hey, w/ 3 damn
>jobs, SOMEthing had to give, right?) Unfortunately, what she
>was feeding us was a typical Soul Food diet, so it was not
>on point nutritionally. Now I don't have children, but I can
>DEFINITELY speak to the difference that I have made in
>Brothah's diets by simply being in a relationship with them,
>and being the one who prepares the food. It is not a FIGHT
>THE POWER, stand on a soapbox w/ a bullhorn, kind of stance,
>but it IS powerful, and CAN make a difference. Even when
>babysitting other folk's children, I've done the same thing.
>My best friend's daughter was EIGHT YEARS OLD before she had
>ever had greens before! That was over my house. When I gave
>her her plate, she was like, "What is THAT?" I said, "You've
>never seen greens before? Not even @ Thanksgiving?!" "No,"
>she answered innocently. "We eat potatoes @ Thanksgiving.
>And creamed corn." I thought to myself, 'Damn. Even the corn
>has to be defiled.' I didn't speak a word more. I just gave
>her the greens, because I did not want to call her mother
>out to her like that. Next time I saw my friend, when we
>were alone, I started talking to her non-chalantly about
>diet. When she was pregnant most recently, she asked me to
>bring her some food in the hospital, to give her a break
>from hospital food. My mother gave me a hard time about not
>buying her a burger. I brought her a salad, with tea. She
>was like, "Wow. What is this lettuce you've put in here?
>It's not white and brown, like regular lettuce. Is it
>supposed to be healthier for you." "Yes," I replied. "It's
>called romaine lettuce." I know this is off the original
>topic, but you know, to paraphrase Talib Kweli again,
>silence can be as loud as a clap of thunder.

I felt you on everything but:

>THAT is how
>women best exert our power: SILENTLY, and SUBTLELY. It's
>taken me 3 decades to learn that.

This point right here. What makes you think that?

my experience, the difference between Brothahs and white men is, since Brothahs in this society typically have no power, they attempt to overtly exert power in their relationships w/ Sistahs, their children, and each other. Unfortunately, this exertion often takes a negative turn, and results in abuse, or most recently here in Baltimore, death(some dude just smothered his 2-mo. old, and dumped her in the trash dumpster). White men are the ones you USUALLY see supporting feminism, and striving to be more 'in touch w/ their feminine side', because they know they already HAVE THE POWER in society. They don't lose anything in showing support for their women, by say, staying home while she works(I know a lawyer who does this, and only works temp assignments periodically). I am not saying ALL white men are like this, of course. But just listen to the music they put out these days (I Am Barely Breathing, and all those John Mayer tunes). Could you IMAGINE Ja Rule, Jay Z, or DMX rapping about,
"I am barely breathing, I can't feel the air," "She's a brick and I'm drowning slowly" or even, "It's your turn to cry, I don't wanna cry no more"? I mean, don't Brothahs find Brian Mc Knight and Kenny Lattimore to be wimpy? Even ?uest stated on VH-1 that he acknowledges Maxwell 4 "trying". WTF U MEAN trying?!?! If THAT Brothah does not succeed @ what HE does, then NO ONE does. It takes a Sistah 2 appreciate that though, and that says a LOT.

I am ranting. The point is, Black machismo DEMANDS that Sistahs be powerful undercurrents, NOT crashing sea waves when we deal w/ them, IF we intend on being effective when we deal w/ them. I don't know if U listen to Erykah Badu, but I declare I think that Sistah is a prophet(notice how I don't make the assumption that you have 2 B male 2 B a prophet). She explains the whole thing her song, Orange Moon: "I'm an orange Moon, reflecting the light of my Sun." That is it right there. EVERYbody knows how powerful the Moon is, and how it affects the tides, women's menses, AND people's behavior. Yet, when does the Moon come out? At night. When people are sleeping, the Moon quietly affects the earth, in a most powerful way. The Moon represents feminine Energy. How does the Sun do it though? BRILLIANTLY. During the day, so everybody can see. And what is the shining Moon lit up by? The Sun, which represents Male Energy. Yin and Yang. Anima, and Animus.

That is how Sistahs need 2 B. SILENTLY powerful. Not in competition w/ the Brothahs, cuz their Energy is a different kind of Energy, and they need<for various reasons> 2 express it a certain way. And believe U me, I'm no pro @ this. I'm still learning myself, and have my moments when I become lost in a lower self, and throw all of this out the window. Invariably, the results are DISASTROUS when I do, though. But check it, this Muslim Sistah/Elder I used to hang around would always tell me: "It is the woman who brings the man to good things." I can assure U that she was not suggesting doing this by dragging a Brothah around by a gold ring through his nose, like a bull.


>>>I felt you on everything but:
>
>>THAT is how
>>women best exert our power: SILENTLY, and SUBTLELY. It's
>>taken me 3 decades to learn that.
>
>This point right here. What makes you think that?

my experience, the difference between Brothahs and white men is, since Brothahs in this society typically have no power, they attempt to overtly exert power in their relationships w/ Sistahs, their children, and each other. Unfortunately, this exertion often takes a negative turn, and results in abuse, or most recently here in Baltimore, death(some dude just smothered his 2-mo. old, and dumped her in the trash dumpster).

Agreed

>White men are the ones you USUALLY see supporting feminism, and >striving to be more 'in touch w/ their feminine side', because >they know they already HAVE THE POWER in society.

They do but not completely though. In the beginning it was for selfish reasons such as the sexual freedom aspect of it and that most early feminists were white and upper class. But I see what you are saying. But I think that we have two different cultures and that thsi idea of machismo is perpetuated by black men and women. If we continue to say...yea work from the background that is powerful. You know he has issues so treat him "special," that is not dealing with the real problem, it is just perpetuating it.

>I am ranting. The point is, Black machismo DEMANDS that Sistahs >be powerful undercurrents, NOT crashing sea waves when we deal >w/ them, IF we intend on being effective when we deal w/ them.

So what you are saying is that we need to adjust ourselves to black men and their issues? Are we supposed to overcompensate for Black men and their response to this society? Who is supposed to compensate and readjust for us? Should the focus then to be to inform brothers about the negative effects of sexism on ALL of us? Should the focus not then to be to help brothers overcome this culture of machismo and trying to live up the white man? I really believe that there is so much focus on the black man and his response to this messed up society that sisters are suffering.

>I don't know if U listen to Erykah Badu, but I declare I think >that Sistah is a prophet(notice how I don't make the assumption >that you have 2 B male 2 B a prophet). She explains the whole >thing her song, Orange Moon: "I'm an orange Moon, reflecting >the light of my Sun." That is it right there. EVERYbody knows >how powerful the Moon is, and how it affects the tides, women's >menses, AND people's behavior. Yet, when does the Moon come >out? At night. When people are sleeping, the Moon quietly >affects the earth, in a most powerful way. The Moon represents >feminine Energy. How does the Sun do it though? BRILLIANTLY. >During the day, so everybody can see. And what is the shining
>Moon lit up by? The Sun, which represents Male Energy. Yin and >Yang. Anima, and Animus.

I do listen to Erykah. But let me ask you a serious question: Who decided who represented the sun and who represented the moon? I mean I don’t get into all of that stuff because half of the time it does not make sense to me, especially after I took an astronomy class. Or how does that explain that in the womb for the first seven weeks we are all female? Or that the Y chromosome is just a small offshoot of the X chromosome and is the reason for a lot of sex linked diseases? It is just mans attempt to understand his world using metaphors which is cool – but somehow women always get put in the lower position – like black folks.

>That is how Sistahs need 2 B. SILENTLY powerful. Not in
>competition w/ the Brothahs, cuz their Energy is a different >kind of Energy, and they need<for various reasons>

Just because you are not silent and refuse to be put in some gendered category does not mean that you are in competition with a brother. I mean what you are saying *sounds* nice for real, but it is the same thing that I hear from sexist men I talk to. The undercurrent still sounds like a “women have their place and they should make the most of it” kind of thing. It is like when folks try and convince black people that racism does not exist and we should make the most of the opportunities that we have. I understand that men and women are different, but I believe a lot of that is mainly due to socialization. Like I said before that may be your path, and what is best for you. But I should hope you don’t believe that is the place for all women.

>
>>White men are the ones you USUALLY see supporting feminism, and >striving to be more 'in touch w/ their feminine side', because >they know they already HAVE THE POWER in society.
>
>They do but not completely though. In the beginning it was
>for selfish reasons such as the sexual freedom aspect of it
>and that most early feminists were white and upper class.
>But I see what you are saying. But I think that we have two
>different cultures and that thsi idea of machismo is
>perpetuated by black men and women. If we continue to
>say...yea work from the background that is powerful. You
>know he has issues so treat him "special," that is not
>dealing with the real problem, it is just perpetuating it.


I am not saying that women should work from the background in "The Movement". I'm talking about in RELATING to them, in relationships. Clearly, more women need to be @ the table when there is coalition-building, and strategizing going on. In relationships w/ them though, what purpose does it serve to go toe-to-toe w/ them, in a verbal contest? This post is a perfect example. This LionelZeus, say he is a Brothah(I'm not sure, cuz there are a lot of white males on Activist who pretend to be Black, which is interesting psychologically, but I'll not digress...). His point-of-view on this issue is REALLY skewed. Just like the Brothah in the workshop I attended, w/ his 3 or 4 girlfriends, whom he admittedly cheats on. Should I argue back-and-forth w/ these 'Brothahs', until they agree w/ me? No. I can express my pov, and keep moving. Or, I can live by example, and let them sit back, and notice. THAT is exertion of a quiet power. I learned how much this effects Brothahs from, yep, you guessedit: a BROTHAH. My sister's friend and I were talking bout Brothahs who date/marry white, because I was perplexed over why Brothahs get upset when Sistahs do the same thing(I just listened to a Brothah call into a radio station last week, who ADMITTEDLY is in an interracial marriage, state he "does double takes" when he sees Sistahs in couples w/ white men). My sister's friend was like, "WHATEVER we do, we do to get Sistah's attention. Brothahs might not even KNOW why they do alot of the things they do, but it ultimately is to get the attention of the Sistahs-INCLUDING when we date/marry white. So to get you all's attention, we have to constantly watch you, to determine your reaction to what we do. " I learned from that exchange, that if that is indeed true, Sistahs are @ a vantage point where they can educate, revolutionize, or whatever you want to call it, by simply BEING, and letting the Brothahs learn by our example.
>
>>I am ranting. The point is, Black machismo DEMANDS that Sistahs >be powerful undercurrents, NOT crashing sea waves when we deal >w/ them, IF we intend on being effective when we deal w/ them.
>
>So what you are saying is that we need to adjust ourselves
>to black men and their issues?

Don't we do that already? Do you think my mother WANTED to work 3 jobs to support her family? OBVIOUSLY this was an adjustment she had to make in response to some areas where my father was not measuring up. In fact, pretty much all of my friends from two parent homes had mothers working multiple jobs.
Don't you think that mothers on the plantation had to make some kind of ADJUSTMENTS in raising their children alone once their husbands were sold away?
The answer to your question is yes. We already do it anyway. I am not sure that you realize that.
Are we supposed to
>overcompensate for Black men and their response to this
>society?

Not OVERcompensate. Just compensate. This is for the sake of achieving balance. Just because some of them aren't doing what THEY need to do, does not mean we need to go on the warpath with them, and add to the problems.

Who is supposed to compensate and readjust for us?
>Should the focus then to be to inform brothers about the
>negative effects of sexism on ALL of us? Should the focus
>not then to be to help brothers overcome this culture of
>machismo and trying to live up the white man? I really
>believe that there is so much focus on the black man and his
>response to this messed up society that sisters are
>suffering.
>
>>I don't know if U listen to Erykah Badu, but I declare I think >that Sistah is a prophet(notice how I don't make the assumption >that you have 2 B male 2 B a prophet). She explains the whole >thing her song, Orange Moon: "I'm an orange Moon, reflecting >the light of my Sun." That is it right there. EVERYbody knows >how powerful the Moon is, and how it affects the tides, women's >menses, AND people's behavior. Yet, when does the Moon come >out? At night. When people are sleeping, the Moon quietly >affects the earth, in a most powerful way. The Moon represents >feminine Energy. How does the Sun do it though? BRILLIANTLY. >During the day, so everybody can see. And what is the shining
>>Moon lit up by? The Sun, which represents Male Energy. Yin and >Yang. Anima, and Animus.
>
>I do listen to Erykah. But let me ask you a serious
>question: Who decided who represented the sun and who
>represented the moon? I mean I don’t get into all of that
>stuff because half of the time it does not make sense to me,
>especially after I took an astronomy class. Or how does that
>explain that in the womb for the first seven weeks we are
>all female? Or that the Y chromosome is just a small
>offshoot of the X chromosome and is the reason for a lot of
>sex linked diseases? It is just mans attempt to understand
>his world using metaphors which is cool – but somehow women
>always get put in the lower position – like black folks.
>
>>That is how Sistahs need 2 B. SILENTLY powerful. Not in
>>competition w/ the Brothahs, cuz their Energy is a different >kind of Energy, and they need<for various reasons>
>
>Just because you are not silent and refuse to be put in some
>gendered category does not mean that you are in competition
>with a brother. I mean what you are saying *sounds* nice for
>real, but it is the same thing that I hear from sexist men I
>talk to. The undercurrent still sounds like a “women have
>their place and they should make the most of it” kind of
>thing. It is like when folks try and convince black people
>that racism does not exist and we should make the most of
>the opportunities that we have. I understand that men and
>women are different, but I believe a lot of that is mainly
>due to socialization. Like I said before that may be your
>path, and what is best for you. But I should hope you don’t
>believe that is the place for all women.

think that this applies to ALL Sistahs. Again, I'm not talking about a women "staying in her place", like she is being oppressed in some way. If you don't understand the Sun/Moon Energy thing, the only thing I can do is refer you to the work of Jewel Pookrum, MD, and to the book, Moon Magick. Those sources can enlighten you far more than I can in one post.

You are right, so much emphasis HAS been placed on the Endangered Black Male, that Sistahs are being neglected, and overlooked for opportunities. I have experienced this personally in graduate school. Of course, we should assert ourselves in those situations, in attempt to get proper attending to.

In terms of us adjusting to their needs as Brothahs, and wondering who will address OUR needs? Them. That is THEIR job. Those that are doing shabby versions of this are what the original poster was addressing. It's a reciprocal thang. Don't you think it's possible for us to rise in responsibility, and look out for one another? IF we turn our backs on them because they have behaved in trifling ways, then what? After you blaze your own path, and ascend to the pinnacle of wherever you are trying to go, are you planning on just sticking w/ other Sistahs, and saying to hell w/ Brothahs for not being stand-up guys? I mean, what are YOU proposing is the answer after we blaze our respective paths?
>>Just because you are not silent and refuse to be put in some
>>gendered category does not mean that you are in competition
>>with a brother. I mean what you are saying *sounds* nice for
>>real, but it is the same thing that I hear from sexist men I
>>talk to. The undercurrent still sounds like a “women have
>>their place and they should make the most of it” kind of
>>thing. It is like when folks try and convince black people
>>that racism does not exist and we should make the most of
>>the opportunities that we have. I understand that men and
>>women are different, but I believe a lot of that is mainly
>>due to socialization. Like I said before that may be your
>>path, and what is best for you. But I should hope you don’t
>>believe that is the place for all women.

>In terms of us adjusting to their needs as Brothahs, and
>wondering who will address OUR needs? Them. That is THEIR
>job. Those that are doing shabby versions of this are what
>the original poster was addressing. It's a reciprocal thang.

Nice idea - but I rarely see it. Maybe I am looking in and at the wrong places. But most of the time it is the sister tryign ot uplift the brother. Or when the brother is trying to uplift the sister it is lined with alterior (usually sexual) motives and a sexist stance.

>Don't you think it's possible for us to rise in
>responsibility, and look out for one another? IF we turn our
>backs on them because they have behaved in trifling ways,
>then what? After you blaze your own path, and ascend to the
>pinnacle of wherever you are trying to go, are you planning
>on just sticking w/ other Sistahs, and saying to hell w/
>Brothahs for not being stand-up guys?

Just because I don't believe being put in a certain place does not mean that I am anti-brothers or anti- relationships. I understand where you are coming from, and I believe that cooperation is the key (I think I said that before), not perpetuation (lol if that is a word).

>I mean, what are YOU
>proposing is the answer after we blaze our respective paths?

What I said earlier is my suggestion:

Should the focus then to be to inform brothers about the negative effects of sexism on ALL of us? Should the focus not then to be to help brothers overcome this culture of machismo and trying to live up the white man?

but I wasn't sure what you meant by it.


>>Should the focus then to be to inform brothers about the
>negative effects of sexism on ALL of us? Should the focus
>not then to be to help brothers overcome this culture of
>machismo and trying to live up the white man?

>I am not saying that women should work from the background
>in "The Movement". I'm talking about in RELATING to them, in
>relationships.

Ok that makes things clearer.

>Clearly, more women need to be @ the table
>when there is coalition-building, and strategizing going on.
>In relationships w/ them though, what purpose does it serve
>to go toe-to-toe w/ them, in a verbal contest?

Like I said before it is not based on competition.

>This post is a perfect example. This LionelZeus, say he is a Brothah(I'm
His point-of-view on this issue is
>REALLY skewed. Just like the Brothah in the workshop I
>attended, w/ his 3 or 4 girlfriends, whom he admittedly
>cheats on. Should I argue back-and-forth w/ these
>'Brothahs', until they agree w/ me? No. I can express my
>pov, and keep moving.

That has nothing to do with womanhood. It just makes sense to do that.

>Or, I can live by example, and let
>them sit back, and notice.

Once again that can apply to relations with anybody

>THAT is exertion of a quiet
>power. I learned how much this effects Brothahs from, yep,
>you guessedit: a BROTHAH.

>My sister's friend was like,
>"WHATEVER we do, we do to get Sistah's attention. Brothahs
>might not even KNOW why they do alot of the things they do,
>but it ultimately is to get the attention of the
>Sistahs-INCLUDING when we date/marry white. So to get you
>all's attention, we have to constantly watch you, to
>determine your reaction to what we do. "

Interesting. But not the view of all brothers.

>I learned from that
>exchange, that if that is indeed true, Sistahs are @ a
>vantage point where they can educate, revolutionize, or
>whatever you want to call it, by simply BEING, and letting
>the Brothahs learn by our example.

True. That is a way.


>Don't we do that already? Do you think my mother WANTED to
>work 3 jobs to support her family? OBVIOUSLY this was an
>adjustment she had to make in response to some areas where
>my father was not measuring up. In fact, pretty much all of
>my friends from two parent homes had mothers working
>multiple jobs.


>Don't you think that mothers on the plantation had to make
>some kind of ADJUSTMENTS in raising their children alone
>once their husbands were sold away?
>The answer to your question is yes. We already do it anyway.
>I am not sure that you realize that.

And do you suppose that will happen to you? What did your mother work so hard for? SO that you can work 3 jobs and take care of the kids too? SHOULD it happen to you? Would the story have been different if children were not around?

Oh but I do realize that. I have a mother too. A father as well. I notice the dynamic of their and other family members relationships. I feel that my mother would not WANT me to be in hr position of taking care of more than her load of the family business. If I were to get married it would be to a man in which I would not have to over compensate for. There is compromise and compensation in every relationship. But I think that we are getting off of the point here.

My main point: My role as a woman will be defined by me and not by anyone's sexist theories, ideas, notions, expectations, etc.

>Not OVERcompensate. Just compensate. This is for the sake of
>achieving balance. Just because some of them aren't doing
>what THEY need to do, does not mean we need to go on the
>warpath with them, and add to the problems.

Never ever said that. You are making a lot of assumptions about where i am coming from. If you look at past responses I agreed wiht you when it came it cooperation. But not when it came to defining a women's role.

I understand you then. And I agree with you, about Sistahs defining their own destinies, and not having Brothahs define their place in the world FOR them. It seems to me though, that a Sistah would WANT to take on certain roles w/in their families. A Brothah should not have to TELL you that. But that's just me. All Sistahs don't want families, and many Sistahs don't even want men these days. I acknowledge that. I know you are not saying that though. I think you are saying that you want a Brothah who is liberated enough to respect you doing your own thang, and be supportive of that, whether you decide to be a housewife, or a CEO. Is that correct?

>>Clearly, more women need to be @ the table
>>when there is coalition-building, and strategizing going on.
>>In relationships w/ them though, what purpose does it serve
>>to go toe-to-toe w/ them, in a verbal contest?
>
>Like I said before it is not based on competition.

I disagree that that has nothing to do w/ womanhood. It can apply to other situations, but I definitely see this as a part of womanhood.

>> Should I argue back-and-forth w/ these
>>'Brothahs', until they agree w/ me? No. I can express my
>>pov, and keep moving.
>
>That has nothing to do with womanhood. It just makes sense
>to do that.

>>Or, I can live by example, and let
>>them sit back, and notice.
We are talking about Brothahs though, so I was specifically applying my pov to our interactions w/ them.
>>Once again that can apply to relations with anybody

>> do you suppose that will happen to you? What did your
>mother work so hard for? SO that you can work 3 jobs and
>take care of the kids too? SHOULD it happen to you?

Yes, the story would have been different, had she not had children. She would have gone into the army, and done her own thang. Maybe not have married @ all. I asked her if she regretted not going down that Life Path once, and she said no, because the joys of motherhood outweigh the sorrows.

I don't think that she has considered whether or not I would be placed in the same situation as she was, if I were to marry. If I did end up in that situation, I don't think she would see it as "abnormal", or something that I couldn't 'live up to', because SHE did it. Now, whether or not "I" would want to end up in a situation like that or not, is another story.

>>Would
>the story have been different if children were not around?


We are getting off the topic. I think we should continue the discussion though, in a broader context, in another thread.


<< I
>think that we are getting off of the point here.

>
>I understand you then. And I agree with you, about Sistahs
>defining their own destinies, and not having Brothahs define
>their place in the world FOR them. It seems to me though,
>that a Sistah would WANT to take on certain roles w/in their
>families. A Brothah should not have to TELL you that. But
>that's just me. All Sistahs don't want families, and many
>Sistahs don't even want men these days. I acknowledge that.
>I know you are not saying that though. I think you are
>saying that you want a Brothah who is liberated enough to
>respect you doing your own thang, and be supportive of that,
>whether you decide to be a housewife, or a CEO. Is that
>correct?

Exactly. Exaaaaactly. I think about this all of the time. I do want a family, and I do want a career. I do want to do some typical things and stay at home with my kids their first couple of years. Not just because that is what is expected, but I want to be there for all of it you know? Luckily I plan on writing so it won't be that hard...but still I think you know what I am getting at.

I wonder if I will ever be able to find a brother who could really accept that and would be willing to look outside of the typical family situation and find new and creative ways of running the household that would benefit us all. And I think I hit on a big point here - how many brothers do you think worry about that?

This is a GREAT example of EXACTLY what I am speaking of. You are right. It is not until around week 8 that reproductive organs definitely modify to male, in the presence of a Y chromosome, and if there are 2 XXs and 1 Y, a girl will still be born, with vestigial male organs, which are undeveloped. THIS is an example of SILENT power. Another, is the hierarchy of infant survival rate: Sistahs first, white male babies last. Nature already tells us TIME AND TIME again that we are POWERFUL. Now instead of fighting w/ Brothahs, or ACCEPTING the kind of behavior from them that is the topic of this post, we can make CONSCIOUS choices to wield that power, without being conspicuous about it, or belligerent.


>>how does that
>explain that in the womb for the first seven weeks we are
>all female? Or that the Y chromosome is just a small
>offshoot of the X chromosome and is the reason for a lot of
>sex linked diseases? It is just mans attempt to understand
>his world using metaphors which is cool – but somehow women
>always get put in the lower position – like black folks.
>
>>That is how Sistahs need 2 B. SILENTLY powerful. Not in
>>competition w/ the Brothahs, cuz their Energy is a different >kind of Energy, and they need<for various reasons>
>
>Just because you are not silent and refuse to be put in some
>gendered category does not mean that you are in competition
>with a brother. I mean what you are saying *sounds* nice for
>real, but it is the same thing that I hear from sexist men I
>talk to. The undercurrent still sounds like a “women have
>their place and they should make the most of it” kind of
>thing. It is like when folks try and convince black people
>that racism does not exist and we should make the most of
>the opportunities that we have. I understand that men and
>women are different, but I believe a lot of that is mainly
>due to socialization. Like I said before that may be your
>path, and what is best for you. But I should hope you don’t
>believe that is the place for all women.

Now instead of fighting
>w/ Brothahs, or ACCEPTING the kind of behavior from them
>that is the topic of this post, we can make CONSCIOUS
>choices to wield that power, without being conspicuous about
>it, or belligerent.

I never suggested fighting, or acting belligerant. It think that is an assumption you made about me because of my stance. My point was that men should not try and put women in a role that to me is defined by sexist thinking. We all have choices of who and what we want to be. If someone decides to be a housewife, I respect that. It is a hard and consuming job. But don't tell me that this is the position I should be in b/c I am a woman. And don't tell me I can not do just as good of a job outside of the home. And don't tell me that a man can not or should not do just as good as a job. I agree with most of what you say.

And as I said before:
>->>Just because you are not silent and refuse to be put in some
>>gendered category does not mean that you are in competition
>>with a brother.

I'm reading Newsweek right now(March 3rd issue), which has an article on Black women's rise to power in society, and its effect on our households. I don't know if there is a way to provide a link to it here. I'm actually reading the magazine. Anyway, can we all make an attempt to get this article, and discuss it in another thread? It is related to this thread, but I think we need to start another one @ this point. Have we EVER had a Sistahs Conference in Activist? Well, let us do so THIS WEEK, regardless. If non-Sistahs reply, we can ignore their messages, and keep on rolling(Strezzed, notice how I'm suggesting that we BLAZE our own path in this ;)). Let me know what you all think, and if you think you can get your hands on this article. It can start the conversation off, and we can progress from there.

>I'm reading Newsweek right now(March 3rd issue), which has
>an article on Black women's rise to power in society, and
>its effect on our households. I don't know if there is a way
>to provide a link to it here. I'm actually reading the
>magazine. Anyway, can we all make an attempt to get this
>article, and discuss it in another thread? It is related to
>this thread, but I think we need to start another one @ this
>point. Have we EVER had a Sistahs Conference in Activist?
>Well, let us do so THIS WEEK, regardless.

That is a wonderful idea

Inbox me the title of the article and I will see if I can get it online. I will definitely be down for that.

start another post, this one has been polluted with too much bs and takes away from the good. I'll try to get a hold of that article.

it is right on the front page

>the Intelligent As Hell(whatever THAT means) loced Brothahs
>are right in this, because to be able to uplift from the
>bedroom and behind the stove(or better yet, using NO STOVE
>AT ALL) is a VERY power position to be in.

I disagree wholeheartedly. SOmebody tried to sell me that idea the other day. If it is so powerful then why are they not right there alongside the women? Why is it "women's work"? Why is it not work that we ALL do to live?

>I understand and
appreciate your point though. We don't ONLY have to be
>relegated to those two positions in order to exert power.
>Don't sleep on those two positions though. Revolutions can
>be started or thwarted by women right from those very
>places....

Thank you and on that note -
I'll create my own paths.

SOLELY the woman's work. U have Brothahs right on this very site who attempt to uplift their Queens through diet, and offer knowledge through conversation, building, what-have-you(I won't call anyone out specifically on it, they can speak/write on it themselves if they choose 2). The point is, it works both ways. I am not saying that ONLY women can do this. I'm saying that we can exert much power THROUGH doing this. If U want 2 go out, B a Warrior-Princess, do U're thang, and have HIM stay home donning socks, and preparing food, that is fine, but, most Brothahs are not strong enough within themselves to accept that role, at this particular time in our his(OUR)story. There are a FEW out there that "I" know of, but not many. OR, you BOTH can B out there, taking turns doing your respective thang, while the other is home w/ the children. It is not a cookie-cutter kind of strategy, Sis. Nor should it B.


>> If it is so powerful then why are they
>not right there alongside the women? Why is it "women's
>work"? Why is it not work that we ALL do to live?
>
>>I understand and
>appreciate your point though. We don't ONLY have to be
>>relegated to those two positions in order to exert power.
>>Don't sleep on those two positions though. Revolutions can
>>be started or thwarted by women right from those very
>>places....
>
>Thank you and on that note -
>I'll create my own paths.

I was reading the bogus obiturary dressing that the Sun-Times placed on the 21 young folks that died at E2. And one brother was noted as being a h.s. drop-out, thinking about getting his GED(but no action), living with his sister who was trying to get him on a more productive track, and babysitting. Top it off dude was bout 24-25 and had a daughter. And I had to stop and think about that cause I know at least 2 Black men that carry the same life style. They don't want to work, still want some money and to go clubbin, and don't mind sitting around a house for 9hrs babysitting. This is definately not a wonderful thing, but if these ruffneck actin mofo's can sit around a house for 9hrs watching, cooking and cleaning up around kids, then they can for damn sure put aside that 'pride' when it comes supporting they're woman and taking up half of her 'motherlyduties'.

One thing I never care to do is procreate with a man thats feels he's too damn manly to tend to a house and be a FATHER to our child, meaning if I were to die, he would still keep the house together and nuture the kids, rather than leaving them with grandma like so many mofo's do. This is very important especially considering more and more Black women are being targeted for AIDS/HIV, cancers, strokes, heartdisease, diabetes, jail etc.

I guess I need 2 look 4 that, or keep it in mind. U R right about that GranMa thing too. We discussed this w/ my brother one time. There is NO WAY he could raise his daughter w/o my mother if his wife died, unless he IMMEDIATELY remarried. NO WAY. The child would starve, and have locs in 3 months, because he would not know what to do w/ her hair. I was thinkin' 'bout these Brothahs that run this vegan Rasta restaurant I like in Baltimore. The staff in this joint is all male, and the food is great, which means they have the cooking part down. But, they are all such playas, it is not even funny. The owner typically has 50 million passion marks all over his neck, yet he'll be 'tryna holla'. The cook straight up TOLD ME that he is living w/ somebody, but guess what? He SURE WAS tryna holla. I mean, really now.

Even when I lived in the ATL, where the conscious community is reputedly SOOOOO advanced, and progressive, there was a LOT of....how do I describe it.....unsanctioned polygamy goin' on. My Kenyan friend, who went to grad school @ CAU would say, "All those Afri-centric cultists<yes, she actually is African, and believes that Afri-centricity is a cult. But let me not digress...> do in West End is talk, and fuck. NOBODY works<to her, vending is not a legitimate job>." Anyway, I would meet these Brothahs in the ATL, and just think the world of them, only to find out how they were treating their women like s***, OR to realize that their so-called interest in my friendship was so they could use me for something, or another. I then concluded that the only difference between the conscious community down there, and hell, in DC too for that matter, and the Bougie community is, the former wears kufis, and daishikis, and the latter wears Donna Karan, and Stacy Adams.


>>One thing I never care to do is procreate with a man thats
>feels he's too damn manly to tend to a house and be a FATHER
>to our child, meaning if I were to die, he would still keep
>the house together and nuture the kids, rather than leaving
>them with grandma like so many mofo's do. This is very
>important especially considering more and more Black women
>are being targeted for AIDS/HIV, cancers, strokes,
>heartdisease, diabetes, jail etc.

>I guess I need 2 look 4 that, or keep it in mind. U R right
>about that GranMa thing too. We discussed this w/ my brother
>one time. There is NO WAY he could raise his daughter w/o my
>mother if his wife died, unless he IMMEDIATELY remarried. NO
>WAY. The child would starve, and have locs in 3 months,
>because he would not know what to do w/ her hair. I was
>thinkin' 'bout these Brothahs that run this vegan Rasta
>restaurant I like in Baltimore. The staff in this joint is
>all male, and the food is great, which means they have the
>cooking part down. But, they are all such playas, it is not
>even funny. The owner typically has 50 million passion marks
>all over his neck, yet he'll be 'tryna holla'. The cook
>straight up TOLD ME that he is living w/ somebody, but guess
>what? He SURE WAS tryna holla. I mean, really now.

I kept meaning to go there, I saw an ad in the city paper - I go to UMBC but am in the UK right now. Yea a lot of men idealize polygamy but I know a lot of people from Africa who are like it is not as great as it seems and there are a lot of issues that go alogn with it. Even better, half the men talking about polygamy are broke. Yet the Muslim rule for that is that you have to be able to suppoert and care for all fo your wives equally.

Anyway, I would meet these Brothahs in the ATL, and
>just think the world of them, only to find out how they were
>treating their women like s***, OR to realize that their
>so-called interest in my friendship was so they could use me
>for something, or another.

Yes, they claim they want to be yoru friend but are only trying to find a way in the bedroom, that has happened to me a couple of times. I actually had a close friend who would try and butter up how he treated his girlfriend to me and get mad when I called out his hypocrisy. Same man talking about the Black Women is a Queen...

Any man I decided to be with has to be able to know how to cook, wash, clean, and take care of children. My father knows how and does it alongside my mother (although she does more) - that is what I expect. I would not married to be a maid, or a surrogate mother, lol. Like you said before adn I agree - cooperation.

sometimes you have to be "man" enough to put that "manly" pride aside and take care of business.

then wannabe DMX's or wannabe Allen Iverson's..........


peace




On the fourth day
God was riding around Harlem in a gypsy cab
when he created the people
and he created these beings in ethnic proportion
but he saw the people lonely & hungry
and from his eminent rectum
he created a companion for these people
and he called this companion
capitalism
who begat racism
who begat exploitation
who begat male chauvinism
who begat machismo
who begat imperialism
who begat colonialism
who begat wall street
who begat foreign wars
and God knew
and God saw
and God felt this was extra good
and God said
VAYAAAAAAA
On the fifth day
the people kneeled
the people prayed
the people begged
and this manifested itself in a petition
a letter to the editor
to know why? WHY? WHY? que pasa babyyyyy?????
and God said,
"My fellow subjects
let me make one thing perfectly clear
by saying this about that:
No . . . . . . . . . . . COMMENT!"
but on the sixth day God spoke to the people
he said . . . "PEOPLE!!!
the ghettos & the slums
& all the other great things I've created
will have dominion over thee"
and then
he commanded the ghettos & slums
and all the other great things he created
to multiply
and they multiplied
On the seventh day God was tired
so he called in sick
collected his overtime pay
a paid vacation included
But before God got on that t.w.a.
for the sunny beaches of Puerto Rico
He noticed his main man Satan
planting the learning trees of consciousness
around his ghetto edens
so God called a news conference
on a state of the heavens address
on a coast to coast national t.v. hookup
and God told the people cool
and God said
Vaya . . .

Miguel Pinero
From The Book of Genesis according to St. Miguelito

Word 2 the 3rd!!!!! Better than than some fake ass gold mouf ludacris impersonaters.....I AM MALCOLM X....remember that?

-Saracen

"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

granted they strive to look better on the outside, but its kinda like the kid in class that pretends to be smart but really just cheating, and then you got that kid that pretends to be stupid but just might be smart, almost a no real win situation cause if that wanna be smart kid gets found out, then you got a dummy and wanna be dummy on your hands.

yeah,

i hate hypocricy too. just trying to bring a little humor to the post :)

all I'm saying is I'd rather have heads running around trying to build their knowledge instead of running around acting all hard. anyway, you've brought up many good points here.

peace

On the fourth day
God was riding around Harlem in a gypsy cab
when he created the people
and he created these beings in ethnic proportion
but he saw the people lonely & hungry
and from his eminent rectum
he created a companion for these people
and he called this companion
capitalism
who begat racism
who begat exploitation
who begat male chauvinism
who begat machismo
who begat imperialism
who begat colonialism
who begat wall street
who begat foreign wars
and God knew
and God saw
and God felt this was extra good
and God said
VAYAAAAAAA
On the fifth day
the people kneeled
the people prayed
the people begged
and this manifested itself in a petition
a letter to the editor
to know why? WHY? WHY? que pasa babyyyyy?????
and God said,
"My fellow subjects
let me make one thing perfectly clear
by saying this about that:
No . . . . . . . . . . . COMMENT!"
but on the sixth day God spoke to the people
he said . . . "PEOPLE!!!
the ghettos & the slums
& all the other great things I've created
will have dominion over thee"
and then
he commanded the ghettos & slums
and all the other great things he created
to multiply
and they multiplied
On the seventh day God was tired
so he called in sick
collected his overtime pay
a paid vacation included
But before God got on that t.w.a.
for the sunny beaches of Puerto Rico
He noticed his main man Satan
planting the learning trees of consciousness
around his ghetto edens
so God called a news conference
on a state of the heavens address
on a coast to coast national t.v. hookup
and God told the people cool
and God said
Vaya . . .

Miguel Pinero
From The Book of Genesis according to St. Miguelito

I was chuckling, it just kinda made me think about my cousin who's sub-teaching and was telling me bout the students.

Could not agree w/ you more. It's quite schizophrenic if you ask me. I was thinking about this topic you raise when I was listening to Nas' "God's Son". First of all, the Brothah has a Malcolm X "By Any Means Necessary" shirt on inside the CD. Every other song on the CD is about fucking bitches, or something to that effect( I actually could not make it through the entire CD-I couldn't take it any longer). Yet, he has 2 or 3 songs on the CD lamenting the illness and eventual death of his mother. He even WHINES about Jay Z attacking him lyrically while he was on hiatus from the rap game, tending to his mother while she was sick. I was thinking to myself, 'I wonder how Nas would feel if his father referred to his revered mother as "some ho he decided to fuck, which is how he was conceived"' I mean, seriously. These women that these men are dogging out, even AFTER they bear their children, are MOTHERS! Someday, their babies will revere the very same women that these Brothahs defile, and show open disdain for, in rap songs, books THEY write, or in r-n-b songs.

I attended a workshop where a Brothah eloquently professed his love for his mother, and three sisters, but in the same breath stated that he keeps 3 or 4 girlfriends at a time, and lies to and cheats on everyone of them. I thought to myself, AGAIN, 'How would you feel if a Brothah treated your mother like that, or your sisters, whom you claim to love so much?!" What they(Brothahs) do to one Sistah, they do to ALL Sistahs, because we are part, and parcel of one another. So these rappers, comedians(I've seen Chris Rock do this too), basketballers, et.al. really are disrespecting the younger image of their mothers that they buy these million dollar homes for, and diamonds for days, out of respect and reverance, but shirk paying child-support for the mother of their OWN children. This applies to the regular Brothah on the steet TOO, who might not be able to afford the million dollar home for his 'mama', but gives her money when he can, or what-have-you, but will take jobs where his money comes from 'under-the-table', so that it cannot be tracked for child support. I mean, how low and despicable is THAT?~!

Don't get me started on this PLEASE. I get a headache just thinking about the madness, the irony, and ridiculousness of it all...

So true, but I hope that it will one day be a thing of history, like a phase that brothers(really all men) will be done with so that they can really be men and not have jump through hoops, rob petertopaypaul or lie out their ass while claiming to be men.

I really felt this post....I think because I have thought the same thoughts, but never been able to verbalize it NEARLY as effective.....I have a daughter and a son.....I get scared sometimes.....when certian songs come on the radio........i get scared for my daughter....i see how these young boys are being raised on pac, biggie, luda and lil john and the eastside boys.....really sad.....i work hard to make sure my son sees me respecting his mother....verbally,physically is not even an option (my wife might stab a playa if i tried to rise up).....but i genuinely respect and love her to the ends of the earth....but i see all these baby mommas (who i also respect)......however i wonder how THIER sons will be raised.....what kind of options will my daughter have for a husband in 2023? Equally I am scared for my son, who is a respetbale, honorable young Muslim boy......But I dont know what the future will hold for all the kids raised by baby mommas with theis crazy ghetto music we have on the radios, in the videos and sadly, in our hearts....So, I opt for more fake Malcolms.....if their gonna be fake...at least the ILLUSION of being upright is inspirational on a small level.

-Saracen


"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

I thinnk they are just rightous wanna be's who come from broken homes.....i come froma stable family (well, stable by most standards).....my family is quite cool and balanced.....most of the fake Malcolms i know are from broken homes....any thoughts?

-Saracen


"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

alot of conscious or so-called conscious Brothahs AND Sistahs come from broken homes. By broken, I don't only mean single-parent households. I also mean households where both parents were there, but there was a lot of fighting, abuse, or madness on SOME level, or another. This explains why they would shun what their parents taught them, and try a new way, i.e. consciousness. If we all grew up like the Huxtables, what would there be to complain about, right? We'd all just go to the AUC, graduate, join the Links, and Boule', and live happily ever after in our Bourgeois suburbs.


>I thinnk they are just rightous wanna be's who come from
>broken homes.....i come froma stable family (well, stable by
>most standards).....my family is quite cool and
>balanced.....most of the fake Malcolms i know are from
>broken homes....any thoughts?

Alot of the "concious, revolutionary type people" I know come from unstable enviornments. I grew up in the stable "Huxtable" type enviornment and sometimes I have trouble connecting with them, because my reality is different.

word.

« i'm blak squared; my roots are blak radicals »

no alcoholism, no beatings....no verbal abuse (in terms of my parents)....I drank abit too much in high school...but quit by senior year....My wife came froma suburban...but ILL fam...mad violence, MAD violence...pops dipped in her early teens....but somehow when soldiered through it....escaped her family and we connected.....but through my father (just watching him) i leanred how to love and respect a woman.....if brothers dont see that, it'll be very hard for them to BE that (honest, hardworking balanced minded black men).

"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

did she escape it? Is she Muslim?

Her family story is crazy....basically though her pops went to Saudi on business, converted- and never came back....BEFORE he converted.....he was beating everybody and very ill....but i mean Islam did not make him come back and be a better father, so, whatever....but the effect it had on her moms kpet the violence cycle and mental games going.....

when we met i was not Muslim.....neither was she...in fact her fam frowned on Islam, since pops dipped......i converted....during a time when we were not togehter (she moved far away)....but we kept in contact over the years.....when we got back together, her moms was really NOT checking for me...I had changed my name, came to Islam....in her head, I was jut like her husband...a man who was gonna leave......but my wife saw how Islam had made me better......so she stayed with me....

her moms wanted her to marry a white guy (her father was white) and did not take kindly to her daughter marrying a black man....even thogugh MOMS was black......basically when the wifey told moms we were getting married, moms disowned her......she did not come to the wedding...none of her brother sna sisters came either out of a bizzare solidarity with the mother.......

that was 8 years ago....we have 2 kids, they have never seen and it's kinda sad and tragic on one side....but the peace and no violence and mental games isa SERIOUS upside...my wife however did not convert until about 3 years after we were married...she was always supportive and studied Islam, but i did not care if she converted or not, as we were natural born soulmates......she was in labor with our first child and they thought she was gonna die, so she took shahada so at least she could die a Muslim....we found out later that one of her sisters also dipped from the fam and converted to Islam....but we have no contact with her..life is a wild ride.

-Saracen

"There is nothing noble about being superior to your fellow man. True nobility comes from being superior to your old self." - Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

God Bless all yall, man that is a heck of a story and sure does bring to light misery loving company.

Everybody has a story. What did she take while in labor? I mean, what is it, EXACTLY? I know I should know this, after reading threads by the OKUmmah for the past three years, but I don't.

**************
rS