>I am quite offended that you tell atheists not to
>participate in this argument regarding free will.

I wasn't trying to be offensive. I just thought if I didn't make that disclaimer, a bunch of atheists would come in and say, "There's no God, yes we have free will, end of discussion." And that's just not helpful or constructive. Basically, I set up some premises and some questions. By not believing in a divine being, much of the discussion does not apply to you. But feel free to present what you believe.

>I, for
>one, am an atheist who not only does not believe in god but
>also I do not believe that we have free will either. I can
>discuss that further if you wish but "people who don't
>believe in god are not allowed to participate". So keep me
>posted.

This is an interesting point of view - no God AND no free will. You have "free will" to post here if you want. :)

>Secondly, the originator of this thread at some point made
>the assinine remark that "not believing in a god makes the
>universe easier to explain". I think you have it backwards.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Since we disagree about the existence of a divine being, we're going to disagree about this point.

For example, as I mentioned above, removing God from the equation makes free will very easy (IMO) - with no God, there's no omnipotent/omniscient force that works against free will, so of course we have free will. I'm sure you will disagree.

>The belief in a "divine" power is only necessary because we
>don't not have the complete means of explaining the
>universe.

I know that many atheists think that this is the only reason people believe in a divine being. And I can see why they would think that, because it seems like a rational explanation as to why people have faith in something which must seem illogical to an atheist. But the thing is - many people, myself included, believe in a divine power because they've felt it at some point in their lives. It has nothing to do with a desire to have the answers to the universe fed to you.

It is the "god believers" that believe in god in
>order to simplify the universe.

No, that's not the reason I believe in God. And you're making an error trying to tell people why they believe in something (that you in fact do not believe). You're in no position to tell someone why THEY believe what THEY do, you can only speak on why YOU believe what YOU do. It would be like me telling you why your favorite website is Okayplayer - I can tell you why I like it, but for me to say why you like it is preposterous.

In any case, some people might choose to believe in God because it simplifies things, but if so, then they don't truly believe, they're just fooling themselves in order to answer those uncomfortable questions. But for me, I don't accept the answers to life's questions based on how my religion tells me to - I always think about them and form my own views. This is sometimes harder to do because I am constantly reevaluating how I fit into my religion, since sometimes my personal conclusions differ from what the church/other people tell me I should believe. I think it's harder for me than for someone who is faced with the same problems, reaches their personal answer, and that's it. Nothing to compare it to, so to speak. You'll disagree I'm sure.