>this discussion is meaningless without the assumption that
>everything in the Bible is true. Any faith not relying on
>that axiom is arbitrary.

Can you open your mind just a bit? Christianity is not the only religion! It's possible to contemplate free will vs. predestination/omniscience of a divine being without believing in ANY organized religion and without any "holy book." Everyone has the same question to ponder about whether we have free will, whether they believe in some form of divine power or not.

"Any faith not relying on that axiom is arbitrary" - what the hell are you saying? This discussion is not exclusively Christian at all.

>I've never read anywhere in the Bible that no one has a
>choice, i mean if we actually dont have a choice why wouldnt
>God throw that in there too, its not like it matters cuz "we
>dont have a choice" right.

Some posters have provided verses from the Bible that support free will, and others have provided verses that suggest predestination.

>Some of you arent Christians and
>dont really get this argument

You don't have to be Christian to question free will.

>but there are Christians that
>believe everything in the bible is true and that no one has
>a choice, they're called Calvinists. Thats where the real
>argument is.

No, that's not the "real argument." That's just one viewpoint in this discussion.