Welcome to The first OkayActivist Archive-Book Project (the open forum summit). Depending on the outcome of this post we could possibly be involved in a dope Activist Project.

Table:

1. INTRODUCTION & MAIN IDEA
2. THE FORM OF DISTRIBUTION:
2A. THE BOOK OPTION (EN DETAIL) (included: my personal idea)
2B. OTHER OPTIONS (LEFT FOR LATER ELABORATION)
3. EDITING AND THE EDITOR
4. PUBLISHING
5. POTENTIAL WORLD REACTION
6. MISC.
7. I KNOW THESE CAPS ARE ANNOYING YALL, MY FAULT.


1)
I want to start off by giving all the credit for this idea to FireBrand. Initially I didn't think it was a great idea but as I've thought about it more in the last 4-5 days (since reading his post 'the archives got some knowledge') I came to the conclusion that it was a great idea.

THE IDEA: What if we decided to turn all or majority of the archives (and any current discussions that will be soon archived) into a book (or some other form of information distribution)?

I'm not sure about all of you. But for myself as a cat who as of yet has not read every last post in the archives. But has still soaked in a tremendous amount of knowledge and ideas that were completly alien to me when I first came here a year ago ..that
we have a lot of information here.

I believe it would be a tremendous waste to have all those posts with all their vast experience and insight only benefit the mere fraction of the 30,000 people that visit this site daily that are regular Activist visitors. IMO, It would be a disservice to any Cause or attempt at making World progress through human empowerment on behalf of all of us as indivisuals in our personal lives if we didn't share it with the World.

With that said, I (as OkayActivist Moderator)* have organized this forum as the first of possibly several discussions in the steps that could transform the archives into said project.

* - With respect to my cohort and *moderator mentor* G-Love.


2)
The first topic of course if it is decided that we indeed DO want to transform the archives into said project, and that we have full authority to do so (I already talked to Dan about it) is exactly HOW to distribute it. The obvious and IMO best way we could do it is in the form of a book. A solid, groundbreaking book.

2A.)
If it is decided that the information should be converted into a book then we could move on to other discussions:

- How should the book be written (what fashion, style, angle or format)?
- What should the very theme and goal/agenda of the book be?
- Should the book be *based* on the archives, or made completly out of it and its words?
- How should it be edited and formatted into one item?
- WHO should do the editing?
- Who should publish it?
etc. etc. etc.

Where I'm at a crossroad now is the theme. I believe that we would have at least two options here:

-Making it a book based wholey on a topic related to Afrocentricity

-Making it a book based on a topic of something more humanly "universal".

The first option is where I tend to disagree where FB stated it should be required reading for 6th graders across the nation. I think this option would be best made as FUBU* because obviously the opinions, agendas and philosophies of most of the Afrocentric posts in the archives do NOT coincide with underlying western agendas, practicies, philsophies, standards etc. and are mostly the exact opposite. I believe it would work best as something targeted to us (Black people) and not mainstream american society (as in the way the school system operates in dominant eurocentricity).

As for the second option, I know there are posts that are just general topics and are non-racial (the ones on religion, current affairs and politics, etc.) but I'm wonderin how many of y'all would rather that than the first option.
Maybe it could encompass both, or we could go with the option of doing two projects: one overall, one essentially targeted and revised at an Afrocentric point of view for Afrikans (the same style as Anthony Robbins "Unlimited Power" and "Unlimited Power: A Black Choice").

* - For Us and By Us (Black people) not the damn clothing line.

2B).
For other options (besides making all the information into a book) it could also happen in other ways (collective digest, declaration, guide or pamphlet, or something else) but I believe it would be best as a book. However the forum is open for discussion of other ideas that anyone has. I'll leave this one for any naysayers on the book format to further elaborate on.

3.)
For editing, my personal idea was to take on the monumental task of extracting every good piece of information and formatting it properly to make it all fit under the chosen theme(s).

I'll get to the editor in a sec. First, I think it's a good idea to note that we'd all want this project to work as a collective voice for the majority of past, present and future OkayActivists
so we would have at least two options in dealing with subject matter that is more individualistsic or subgroupish rather than something that represents the majority of us all:

1. Leave it out
2. Turn it into an example of "option" (e.g. posts on specific religions/belifs, personal opinions and life experiences/choices, etc.) at the indivisual level beneath the fabric of the larger collective voice.

Or maybe another option that I'm not thinking of.

On a related note, I think it would be crucial that we make something that is informative, knowledgable and impressive. A work meant to be insightful, liberating and uplifting. Totally truthful but not hateful.

With that said I hope most of all of you would agree that it would be best if we left out ideas that don't match up with the collective image of OkayActivist (unless it was shown from the personal point of view of an indivisual or subgroup). By that I mean racist posts (anything dealing with white people being devils, "created" human experiments or similar views expressed in publications like the Isis papers) or posts which blindly promote a specific religion (e.g. Islam, Christianity) or govermental ideology (e.g. Communism) or anything else related to that kind of surreal contraversy.

And by this I'm mainly talking about the kind of loaded claims that attempts to take away the humanity in other groups of people, that aren't related to uplifting and informing human beings or embracing Afrikanism anyhow.

As for the editor. My idea was to basically have one or person or a small group take on the task of extracting the posts, formatting it, filling in the gaps, and doing all the typing and organizing. But maybe some of you have other ideas. I was thinking that maybe anyone interested in this could submit a writing and from there we'd decide who the best writer was and thus who should do the bulk of the written work.

4.)
Moving on to the publishing. I'm sure that between all of us and our connections in various fields and jobs that somebody could find a willing publishing co. Especially if a significant buying audience was there. But that's something to think about later.

5.)
As far as potential world reaction goes, I think it could make a stake in whatever area were trying to reach.
It could end up going farther than we imagined or it could just be a humble publication that makes some small noise in the literary world for OKP (if that's what is decided should happen). I really think that if this were to reach progressive and "liberal" audiences (and the Black audience especially) that it would introduce a new school of thought to people that had never thought in these ways prior.

Maybe some of the OKP artists could help promote it, and it could be involved in OkayBooks and promoted by OKP like with Angela Nissel's book "The Broke Diary". Just some ideas.

6.)
Of course all names (of everyone involved) and Okayplayer could be given credit at the end and the sources linked to in each post could be the bibliography.

But if it were up to me, it would just be a book based on a strong Afrocentric topic that could still apply to virtually any audience. I was thinking about it being formatted as a guidance writing, where the reader is taken on a journey from ignorance, confusion and oppression to knowledge, enlightnment and higher thinking (and if one chooses: the Continental reclaimation). Maybe called something like "The Path Back Home" with a young Black child walking through a wooded trail with a home in the distance for the cover.

7)
Ahahahaha.


Just my ideas so far. What do y'all think?




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Yo, it's been a while but on my return I see things lookin up for Okay Activist. I am spending my time creating beautiful things with my hands and less time online since I find it pointless to engage in countless debate with computer activist that don't seem to respect themselves as well each other. Good luck moderating the arm chair activist and nazi's trying to keep ya'll from connecting.

"There's a world full of people outside waiting for your enlightenment to fall upon their ears."

"I'd rather my eyes be burnt by the sun than by the artifically luminesent computer screen."

sOLID
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check this site:
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hah, good question. I had never thought about that at all.



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Wow... what's that? what's that? Could this be light at the end of the tunnel? I think it is.
Boy things are looking up around here!
Great idea, one!

Ive also been thinking the thoughts you have now.. (heh... think i posted it and it is somewhere in the archive itself, in the "next level" post i think.) I mean, with an archive like the one of okayactivist it is natural for many to think about compiling it into a book.


>- What should the very theme
>and goal/agenda of the book be?

The theme and goal/agenda of okayactivist in general..at its best. I know it's easy to say but tougher to do. It takes effort to present that essence. But if there is to be a general theme of activist (at its best), then it is the more or less afrocentric one, isnt it...

So out of your two options:
>-Making it a book based wholey on
>a topic related to Afrocentricity

yes, it is the best part of okactivist.

>-Making it a book based on a topic
>of something more humanly "universal".

...but such topics have been very good as well, and i think it would be good to include them in this book (to some extent), because of the variation it brings.

>I believe it would work best as something
>targeted to us (Black people) and not
>mainstream american society (as in the
>way the school system operates in dominant
>eurocentricity).

damn right. if not, it wouldnt be okayactivistic.
These posts can be like poison to eurocentric thought... and they're more powerful if they come from below and indirectly, compared to throwing them in the direction of mainstream society. (Because the mainstream western monsterous system got its ways of delegitimizing or at best watering down anything that doesnt go in the direction it is going..)

>I hope most of all of you would agree that it
>would be best if we left out ideas that don't
>match up with the collective image of
>OkayActivist (unless it was shown from the
>personal point of view of an indivisual or
>subgroup). By that I mean racist posts
>(anything dealing with white people being
>devils, "created" human experiments or similar
>views expressed in publications like the Isis
>papers) or posts which blindly promote a
>specific religion (e.g. Islam, Christianity)
>or govermental ideology (e.g. Communism) or
>anything else related to that kind of surreal
>contraversy.

Yep.. but it's important not to make it homogenic. So yeah, it's like "i may not agree with what you say, but as long as you say it decently and with respect for the right to say it, i will tolerate you."
Tolerance for the poster... and respect for the game. As long as that is present, utamaroho can talk about his plans of most effectively erasing the aryan race as much as he wants to :) (its really better when he does it)

>Moving on to the publishing. I'm sure that
>between all of us and our connections in
>various fields and jobs that somebody could
>find a willing publishing co. Especially if
>a significant buying audience was there. But
>that's something to think about later.

Yep. (if finding a publisher ends up being impossible, it's always possible to distribute it in the underground.. indy.. That would take more efforts, but the content would still be the same. And it would still be spread about, perhaps just not to the same extent.)

>As far as potential world reaction goes, I think
>it could make a stake in whatever area were
>trying to reach.
>It could end up going farther than we imagined or
>it could just be a humble publication that makes
>some small noise in the literary world for OKP
>(if that's what is decided should happen). I
>really think that if this were to reach
>progressive and "liberal" audiences (and the
>Black audience especially) that it would introduce
>a new school of thought to people that had never
>thought in these ways prior.

What about never mentioning okayplayer and okayactivist? No addresses, but from a strong written community... To make it more special, give it a more interesting hidden face.. eh, you know what i mean. (Hard to explain..)
But first of all to protect okayactivist. Because i suddenly pictured the board in the future, flooded with readers of that book, and that could be a too interesting mix of people (or probably too uninteresting mix) for a small place like this....

I mean, most of these strong knowledgefilled posts only come from a handful of posters anyway. To make this book is to show respect to what they have shared and together built, and to pass that on. The book shouldnt destroy what it documents, the okayactivist athmosphere... Weve seen how easily that athmosphere can be changed or watered down when a large amount of people come along with intentions that aren't for the good of this athmosphere. So, i think that would be nice..

>But if it were up to me, it would just be a book
>based on a strong Afrocentric topic that could
>still apply to virtually any audience. I was
>thinking about it being formatted as a guidance
>writing, where the reader is taken on a journey
>from ignorance, confusion and oppression to
>knowledge, enlightnment and higher thinking (and
>if one chooses: the Continental reclaimation).
>Maybe called something like "The Path Back Home"
>with a young Black child walking through a
>wooded trail with a home in the distance for the
>cover.

I like the idea of writing it as a guidance story.. But then i'm also not too sure about the posts being formatted. Then they loose their surrounding and background, i think. Perhaps instead, how would it be if the posts were compressed to the essence and presented in the same way as on the boards... and perhaps THEN you'd have written text in between, every now and then, to hold the journey together, as a guidance. (Those text, small chapters in between different sections of posts, could be partly summary partly essay, opening up for further understanding if possible. It would provide variation, while the posts would be presented the way theyve always been.)

love the book cover idea, btw.. an okaypainter could do it

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. (Tolerance.)

our word is our weapon -el SUP, the Zapatistas

(b/c of the 'next level' post, and the aborted activist/hi-tech collab -- shit, maybe we can make an okp video game -- that would get more burn in the land of h.t. ;-)

overall, i think that while some of this could be distilled into a book (hey, there are several books worth of stuff in the archives), i think that a website (federisco's original idea) would be the better format.

its FREE. (which is important, cuz the folks who need this info the most are those w/out $$$s).

it can accommodate all the different twists and turns and topics we've covered.

utamoroho was trying (at one point) to put together an index of the archives, listing stuff topically. that would be a short cut way to getting this thing organized, so that it could grow, but still have some degree of utility before its a finished product.

i envision it as an *ahem* alternative about.com.

what you interested in... health? ok, click here.

religion? boom.

history? there it is.

plus, i think that okp itself (and certainly okayactivist for the more serious-minded) is of value in and of itself. ie, how all of these anonymous folks, with a very strange common denominator (certain musical taste), congregate here -- the group dynamics of how discussions take place, how to argue/persuade, how to research, philosophy, etc. all that's up in here and more.

don't mean to hijack your vision, bruh, cuz i can certainly get down w/ an african centered book (or books) from the contents of the archives (solarus' black ourstory month certainly shines as an example), but there's a lot more in there, too.





peace & blessings,

x.

"I'm on the Zoloft to keep from killing y'all." - Iron Mike

----------------------
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_______________________

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"Be intent on action, not on the fruits of action; avoid attraction to the fruits and attachment to inaction! Perform action, firm in discipline, relinquishing attachment; be impartial to failure and sucess - this equanimity is called discipling. Wise men disciplined by understanding relinquish the fruit born of action; freed from these bonds of rebirth, they reach a place beyond decay." --Teachings of Krishna

"...If it were not for them in my life I might have not realized just how dangerous Western culture is for thinking Afrikans and would have gone on to become another empty, wasted intellectualizer." --Larry D. Crawford (Mwalimu A. Bomani Baruti)

you've got a willing web designer to help out if u need one... (that would be me)

******************************
The newbie experience...

Disclaimer: lurk

before. as long as the idea is there.

>its (the website) FREE. (which is important, cuz the folks who need this
>info the most are those w/out $$$s).

yes, because the only way a book could match that is if we went truly underground/indy. (i'm still fascinated by that thou.. for example that at the end of each copy of the book there is a page describing how to further duplicate and distribute the book itself. what tools to use, different methodes to use, estimated expenditures, ways of distributing.)

>i envision it as an *ahem* alternative about.com.
>
>what you interested in... health? ok, click here.
>
>religion? boom.
>
>history? there it is.

It is the best way to present the wealth of knowledge, definitely. But we (us interested in this.. we already have quest4knowledge carrying the idea on.. and solarus, m2, poetx, firebrand, aquaman, the casm, ugotsumbigteef, moi ++) have to agree now about whether to do a book or a website.

One suggestion is to leave the book for the future, and do the website now. (And then, if putting the book idea on ice takes away the encouragement for some (i know because i'm one), one way to avoid conflict is: dont. Instead move the encouragement onto building a solid web site, which in the future might be an even better foundation for a book.)

amazing idea, nicely structured project.

we MUST take this ahead and really make something worthy of our intellects and time and effort. to cosign with Federisco (btw, Peace Federisco, how have you been man?), "we have to do this".

anything i can help, count me in! this si really something i cans ee myself putting as much effort as i can into.

peace and congrats for the idea. we need you around;)

PEACE

so i have been thinking about something like this. actually different though i think. well my friends and i in high school abd junior high used to pass around notebooks and we would journal. so i was think a book composed of the opinions/philosophies/essays/poems/articles/artwork/rhyme, etc... of the youth of this time would be great. you know with flyers from lectures that you attended with a reaction to the lecture. pictures of protests marches, etc... . this would be to note the achievements/moves of the youth in this day and age and to give the youth after us an oppurtunity to see an outlook of college and mid- twenty life. just a little input for you venture.


peace
roah

ps. come to think of it i can make this idea work. its always good to put things down in writing. (for yourself to think about)








-It's like I got enemy's, 'cause of my race they hate me
Fuck pullin' over, CHASE ME
Guess it's safe to say it makes me crazy
Can't give up, 'cause this hate it makes me
Wanna grab an AK spray strays on 8th street
8 ways and blaze the day bleed
E-E-8-D-D-E-8-B
Tryin' to say we pull more keys than a leash of ladies
Well ok, hate me, say we crazy
But lately, baby
Even criticizin' the way we say things
I pray everyday, but the way he hating
I wish Jeff Dahmer was here, why?
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That's why I've been a crook since 18
..............field mob



-ase7 productions future projects in film!!!

http://members.blackplanet.com/pistachio/

http://takeit2thestreets.tripod.com

inbox..

I can also see myself putting efforts into this, considering ive got summer holiday starting in 1 month.. and will be living home with the family (with free housing and its own free mini-internet café)

-To my knowledge there isn't a User Agreement associated with this site, so who exactly owns the rights to the posts on this board? The Poster or whatever Organization owns this web site?


-While I don't have anything against this project per se, I was midly disturbed by the fact that it seems that it "appears" that only "certain" opinions are going to be published, while others will be deemed as not fitting within a schema that only certain people will get to define.

For instance - Expertise - now despite the fact that I was accused of being Expertise or having his same political views when I first posted here and was accused of such several times after that -- I've often been his most vehement opponent. YET, I still don't think that his views should be kept out of the book - if they're in the archives.

Dig?

The archives are supposed to represent the breadth of the views presented here -- so I don't think views should be squelched or removed.

In fact, I'm sure that plenty of people don't think my views on various things belong here either or in a book about activist - BUT, its still one of the views being presented here and it would be inaccurrate to leave it out.

In other words, I think the editors should represent a good cross section of political views so that the threads aren't being chosen merely to represent one school of thought.

If that isn't done - the threads themselves will be edited and lose their value, not to mention the fact that the book becomes a propaganda piece for one school of thought.

Finally, a lot of planning on the business end with regards to where the proceeds ago, assigning rights for one's work, etc, needs to occur to make this happen.




-M2

Also - I think that the biggest decision/problem/issue with respect to this project is going to be deciding how to edit and present a particular thread -- a universal format would have to be created in order to determine how to write up each thread and present each part of the discussion.

>-To my knowledge there isn't a User Agreement associated
>with this site, so who exactly owns the rights to the posts
>on this board? The Poster or whatever Organization owns this
>web site?

I'm not sure. I did talk to Dan and he didn't object. He said the only issue would be using the OKP logo (if thats what we decided, its still on teh table for now) but I'll look into what you're saying.

>-While I don't have anything against this project per se, I
>was midly disturbed by the fact that it seems that it
>"appears" that only "certain" opinions are going to be
>published, while others will be deemed as not fitting within
>a schema that only certain people will get to define.

Oh nah. The floor is open for any scenario. I was just pointing to the idea(s) that I thought were most likely to go forth.

>For instance - Expertise - now despite the fact that I was
>accused of being Expertise or having his same political
>views when I first posted here and was accused of such
>several times after that -- I've often been his most
>vehement opponent. YET, I still don't think that his views
>should be kept out of the book - if they're in the archives.
>
>Dig?

I feel what you're saying. A lot of people (including me) drew the last straw when he defended the use of "wet back" as to describe Latinos so I think in a collective setting it would depend on the decision of the majority voice in the *COLLECTIVE* itself though.

Regarding the business part, I actually had you in mind though so I don't personally think any opinions would be left out.

>The archives are supposed to represent the breadth of the
>views presented here -- so I don't think views should be
>squelched or removed.

>In fact, I'm sure that plenty of people don't think my views
>on various things belong here either or in a book about
>activist - BUT, its still one of the views being presented
>here and it would be inaccurrate to leave it out.
>
>In other words, I think the editors should represent a good
>cross section of political views so that the threads aren't
>being chosen merely to represent one school of thought.
>
>If that isn't done - the threads themselves will be edited
>and lose their value, not to mention the fact that the book
>becomes a propaganda piece for one school of thought.
>
>Finally, a lot of planning on the business end with regards
>to where the proceeds ago, assigning rights for one's work,
>etc, needs to occur to make this happen.
>
>
>
>
>-M2
>
>Also - I think that the biggest decision/problem/issue with
>respect to this project is going to be deciding how to edit
>and present a particular thread -- a universal format would
>have to be created in order to determine how to write up
>each thread and present each part of the discussion.

Thanks for the input.


------

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>I feel what you're saying. A lot of people (including me)
>drew the last straw when he defended the use of "wet back"
>as to describe Latinos so I think in a collective setting it
>would depend on the decision of the majority voice in the
>*COLLECTIVE* itself though.

Anyhow, the archives by its NATURE contains only a few post by expertise.. and few posts representing that angle in general, since it's not too long back in time that such opinions were extremly rare.

I failed to see it as clearly when i first got heated up by the idea.. You are right that what to a great extent makes the board's posts publish-worthy is its width. (Specially when different opposing sides carries on a discussion that helpes both sides understand eachother, while also teaching the spectators much.)

that is much of what i think about when i say "okayactivist at its best". but then it is also not only the afrocentric posts

I agree.

It's funny... I couldn't stand you until you started in with Expertise. More than likely we both did some growing, but I started to perceive the difference between the two of you... and I wouldn't want either voice left out.

the theme should definitely NOT be solely based on "Afrocentricity."

There are and have always been very few people who could be said to represent that stream of thought on this board.

If anything, I think the theme should be "words of Okayactivists."

That is somewhat vague but it should be. There should be a multitude of ideas that are conveyed in the work. The only thing is that they should be organized in such a fashion that promotes continuity of the various thoughts.

so let's take information that originally came from books(most of it i hope) ... filter it through an internet message board... and then put it back in a book?

i like the website idea though. even though all the archives are available on this site, it could use a more user-friendly interface ... definitely feeling the " *alternative* about.com" thing...

some info that is posted is directly from books or other websites without credit being given.

I'm sure there are proprietary issues to look at here.

forum for it.

the 'value' of the project would come in the organization/categorization of as much of the disparate topics discussed here so that it would become a true resource.

as such, it would not be an end in and of itself. and the things i was talking about (in reference to the project/site promoting critical analysis and research skills) would be very clear about that -- its 'buyer beware' with the posts/articles themselves indicating that if you see a book or site quoted within, and are serious about understanding/incorporating that bit of knowledge, you need to do the work to check out the original source.

as far as copyright, etc., there'd have to be a whole gang of disclaimers, etc., up in there, but one of the best means of protection (imho) would be in keeping it free. some law heads up in here may be able to elaborate, but quoting a paragraph from a relevant book (within a post) is cool. reprinting the entire first 3 chapters would not be. unless the works are public domain and widely available elsewhere for free (translations of the book of coming forth by day and by night, etc.,).

but if somebody wanted to be put up on 'fasting' -- pros, cons, health, spiritual effects, etc., a well indexed (and, in some cases, carefully edited) re-presentation of stuff in the archives would be a valuable resource. it wouldn't be the be-all and end-all, but if you live in an area where you just don't have a lot of information on the subject (and don't have any means of filtering through the vast amounts of stuff on the net), this would be a big help.





peace & blessings,

x.

"I'm on the Zoloft to keep from killing y'all." - Iron Mike

>forum for it.
>
>the 'value' of the project would come in the
>organization/categorization of as much of the disparate
>topics discussed here so that it would become a true
>resource.

So what's your idea exactly? The about.com type thing?

>as such, it would not be an end in and of itself. and the
>things i was talking about (in reference to the project/site
>promoting critical analysis and research skills) would be
>very clear about that -- its 'buyer beware' with the
>posts/articles themselves indicating that if you see a book
>or site quoted within, and are serious about
>understanding/incorporating that bit of knowledge, you need
>to do the work to check out the original source.

I see that.

>as far as copyright, etc., there'd have to be a whole gang
>of disclaimers, etc., up in there, but one of the best means
>of protection (imho) would be in keeping it free. some law
>heads up in here may be able to elaborate, but quoting a
>paragraph from a relevant book (within a post) is cool.
>reprinting the entire first 3 chapters would not be. unless
>the works are public domain and widely available elsewhere
>for free (translations of the book of coming forth by day
>and by night, etc.,).

Yeah I know. Of course we would leave out (or alter) material that looks like it comes directly from someones book. The actual discussions and building are what's most important anyhow.

>but if somebody wanted to be put up on 'fasting' -- pros,
>cons, health, spiritual effects, etc., a well indexed (and,
>in some cases, carefully edited) re-presentation of stuff in
>the archives would be a valuable resource. it wouldn't be
>the be-all and end-all, but if you live in an area where you
>just don't have a lot of information on the subject (and
>don't have any means of filtering through the vast amounts
>of stuff on the net), this would be a big help.

Umm, isnt that what a search engine is for? Or do you mean a specific space to find specific topics written in discussion format?


>peace & blessings,

Thanks for the input.



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But I'm starting to realize that it will be too specific for many 'players.

but the truth is, muhf*ckas don't know how to use what we got already. i could rattle off a list of a dozen subjects that have been cyclically beaten to death on these boards... its one of the reasons i stopped posting as much on activist (in the absence of significant current events *cough* war). ish had me feeling like Groundhog's Day, having the same discussions/arguments over and over: what was the race (sic) of the ancient egyptians? should the bible be taken literally? what's up with affirmative action? where did AIDS come from?...

this info is all available in our own archives. but what is missing is context. now multiply that times a googleplex and you get the status of the whole internet. all the information is available, but how does one REALLY know anything from it? how does one give weight to various arguments and opinions when the mere fact of their existing appears to give them equal weight?

but, if we're talking about fasting, and i read a post by uta, there's a level of credence i can give it because: a) his previous posts about the subject coincide with things i've learned about the subject independently, b) he actually practices these things**, c) resources that he cites in support of his views on fasting, etc., check out, to the degree that i've followed up on some.

>So what's your idea exactly? The about.com type thing?

that may be a good or bad analogy, but its the best one i could come up with at the time.

when i talk about the cyclical nature of this board, its because we always have a steady turnover of people, ideas. and when you're exposed to information that runs counter to the constant propaganda/conditioning that "we" (universalizing on behalf of all subjects of western culture ;-), there's a few things that i observe to take place:

1. proselytizing phase -- you want to pull as many other people's coats as possible. its exciting and worthwhile to 'you', and you assume that it is so for everyone else. which is cool. but that energetic phase may result in your going out and spreading info that you have not fully grasped, and by doing so you could actually do damage to your 'cause' by not being able to back up your assertations.

2. credulous phase -- believing *everything* that's 'contrary' or 'alternative' because you see the magnitude of the lies you'd previously believed. case in point, some folks get so excited to learn that classical african civilization predated that of the europeans, but then can't separate the real from the conjecture from the wildly speculative, and may be running around believing that the ancient kemetians had this magical crystal that vibrated in tune with circadian rhythms to activate their pineal glands allowing them to fly across the desert leaving melanin vapor trails.

3. baby with the bath water -- contrarian mindset taken to the extreme. take capitalism for example. no matter how much you or i may hate it (as an ideal, or in its application), no amount of protestation on our parts diminishes the fact that we take part in it. unless someone is living in a teepee, eating only food they've grown, and are connected psychically to the internet, they are participating. those kind of folks (gross generalization alert) generally spend more time denouncing what they don't like than articulating what they do like.

>Umm, isnt that what a search engine is for? Or do you mean a
>specific space to find specific topics written in discussion
>format?

maybe i'm getting overly esoteric, but i'm thinking about, in addition to presenting the information, providing folks info on how to analyze the information -- knowing and 'ways of knowing'.

that's not going to work for every topic, of course (*cough*, religion), but it should help folks filter the information they're exposed to.

if i'm interested in learning about christian doctrine, i'm going to do a search on osoclasi. it may or may not change my mind on things, but seeing the way he argues and responds to questions is extremely informative.

similarly, if i have questions about what the NGE believe, allah (dre) is the best source of that info, and from reading his previous exchanges from folks, i can add to my understanding.

if i want some insight on how libertarians or conservatives view things, i can look for expertises posts (and counter-posts).


** when i mention different okayplayers as actual resources and real people, its from the perspective that while i've never met any of y'all, several of y'all have met in the physical, and lend some degree of corroboration to each other's existence. if utamoroho is NOT some tofu eating, capoeira-doing guy in atl, and is actually a middle-aged white man in indiana who also posts as solarus, ananse, kemetian, etc., in an elaborate cyber-hoax to get more cats eating wheat grass then i stand corrected.

>Thanks for the input.
>

thanks for the post. its a great idea.
>
>Make sure you know the guidelines before posting:
>http://okayplayer.com/guidelines
>
>Not happy about your post being locked? Want a thread
>archived? See a post that shouldn't be up? Feel free to
>Inbox me at Quest4Knowledge or E-Mail me at
>KemeticSunrise@aol.com
>

peace & blessings,

x.

"I'm on the Zoloft to keep from killing y'all." - Iron Mike

>this info is all available in our own archives. but what is
>missing is context. now multiply that times a googleplex and
>you get the status of the whole internet. all the
>information is available, but how does one REALLY know
>anything from it? how does one give weight to various
>arguments and opinions when the mere fact of their existing
>appears to give them equal weight?
>
>but, if we're talking about fasting, and i read a post by
>uta, there's a level of credence i can give it because: a)
>his previous posts about the subject coincide with things
>i've learned about the subject independently, b) he actually
>practices these things**, c) resources that he cites in
>support of his views on fasting, etc., check out, to the
>degree that i've followed up on some.

That was a very good way of showing the difference between static text and text that you know have human interaction behind it! (Even if there is perhaps a fat white man being behind many of the nicknames...)

The phases you talked about are also true, i have been stuck in at least one of them.

>maybe i'm getting overly esoteric, but i'm thinking about,
>in addition to presenting the information, providing folks
>info on how to analyze the information -- knowing and 'ways
>of knowing'.

Yes.. So, not only doing a series of articles on how to analyze information like we talked about the last time this idea was up, but instead making it embody all aspects of the site. Such as by making "analysis of information/critical thinking" the overall message of the site. Making it its purpose. (In some way.. However it may be possible.)

>** when i mention different okayplayers as actual resources
>and real people, its from the perspective that while i've
>never met any of y'all, several of y'all have met in the
>physical, and lend some degree of corroboration to each
>other's existence. if utamoroho is NOT some tofu eating,
>capoeira-doing guy in atl, and is actually a middle-aged
>white man in indiana who also posts as solarus, ananse,
>kemetian, etc., in an elaborate cyber-hoax to get more cats
>eating wheat grass then i stand corrected.

hahah!!! sig material! :D

Good idea. A website forum would also allow those of us and the masses outside of the States an opportunity to utilize such a resource. Would it be possible to use both ( written/bound, online) formats?
What about the financing? If it were a contribution thing, who's controlling the loot?

I'm correcting my opinion now, understanding that it should convey the okayactivist world itself rather than the afrocentric angle only.

(hah i'm getting good at diplomatic responses)

First off, the idea of a more relevant about.com sounds like it would work really well. But, the idea of a book has bounced around in my head a few times when I've read the board here, and I think it can be a truly valuable resource for the activists that make up this community.

I think it would be very interesting to treat the book as an artifact of activism and of the board itself, both of which hinge on building with others. To represent this is, a book could consist of threads or excerpts from threads, the principle authors of which would meet and discuss this topic, what they've learned from okayactivist, and their own local activism. And/ or, activist A can visit and write about B who visits and writes about C. So a essay/ chapter would be followed by a relevant thread/ excerpt which would relate to the next essay/ chapter.

Threads or excerpts could be chosen that represent this community, whether for their depth of discussion or relevance to the lives of the people here. Particular activists could also be featured and threads or excerpts representative of their activism could be selected.

The threads would be like interludes within the meat and potatoes/ tofu with peanut sauce of the project, which would be spotlights of individuals that make up the community and their interaction with others from the community. One person from a thread could visit another and write about them and their work, or a third person could write about discussions between them. Then the subject of this chapter could visit the subject of the next, and so on. This way it's collaborative, and somewhat mimics the nature of boards like this one.

One thing that would be important is to emphasize action/ activism rather than coming off as some kind of social club. Profiles of activists should include information about what they do outside of the board and how that experience benefits others on the board and those who read the book. This would certainly deflate notions of the death or hip hop activism or apathetic attitudes of younger generations or of message boards as largely aesthetic. With grassroots activism on the rise, this could be a really important project.

Logistically, bus fare could be the only expense for some folks who participate. Driving may be an option for some. We can solicit more submissions than we need and choose the best. The entire community would serve as editors in this capacity, although a handful of us should probably serve as editors for other responsibilities. Any profits could go to groups chosen by the okayactivist community, a fund could be set up to benefit members of the community who can apply for grants for local activist projects, or there could be a combination of the two. A simple PayPal fund could be set up to refund the $68 or less for a bus ticket for anyone who needs it that participates, which could probably be funded by contributions from folks on this board.

I think this project could represent individuals and the collaborative body at once. It could also have some general interest outside of this board, with the current rise in interest in cyberculture from political/ sociological/ cultural studies/ literary standpoints. It probably wouldn't be as funny as or sell as many copies as "Stupid White Men" but it would give a voice to elements of hip hop, activism, and cyberculture that are all too often overlooked.

Peace

One
>person from a thread could visit another and write about
>them and their work, or a third person could write about
>discussions between them.

Or, there could be two simultaneous narrative accounts of the conversation by each of the participants (in different fonts/ as a script with annotations in italics?) that could be edited by the participants to include their thoughts, kind of like an interview in a magazine.

Example (AQUAMAN and Extpertise meet for dinner):

"I consider it a blessing to meet and build with such talented people online." YOU CAN BLESS THESE NUTS. "Pass the mashed potatoes, please?" I'LL PASS EM TO YA ON THESE NUTS, BOSS.
"SURE. NEED GRAVY?" I'm just glad Aqua likes me and doesn't call me Sexpertise anymore. IT'S WEIRD TO HAVE DINNER WITH SOMEONE WHO'LL BE COUNTERDEMONSTRATING ME TOMORROW. YOU CAN COUNTERDEMONSTRATE THESE NUTS, SEXPERTISE.

And so on. Of course, this example reveals the possible pitfalls of this format, but I'm sure my momentary lapse of reason doesn't completely obscure the possible value of this and how it relates to a message board's environment. Ideally, the collaboration would be more positive, but it may be an interesting experiment.

I've rambled too much.

Thanks for the input...



anyone else?



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The thing with the boards as they are now, is that "Activist" is just too vague. You can go in here at any given time and who knows what threads you will see. Everything from religion, spirituality, politics, diet, news articles,etc. are being discussed. Even a couple UFO posts sprinkled in for good measure. Of course you can do searches, but with its own site, these forums could be subdivided further. And it wouldn't have to stop there. The forums could be the core of it but you could have staff writers, interviews, point-counterpoint debates, real-time chat, maybe even organize events of (y)our own. And of course you could always branch out later into publishing after establishing more of an audience. This might be more than you had in mind, but I'm just saying the possibilities are out there.
3 Problems I see is :
• I wouldn't want this to become some great schism from this site, some sort of exodus of the okayactivists starting up their own thing. We would have to work together with Okayplayer in some manner each party saw fit.
• It cannot, simply CANNOT be unilateral. To do this would be failure.
• And here's a BIG problem for me : How do you go about respecting everyone's right to free speech while still maintaining some sort of validity of information ? This site would be a huge responsibility in that your whole purpose is to educate. Now as much good information as there is on here, there's a whoooole lot of misinformation. And ultimately very few if any of us would be recognized as "experts" in the academic world or any other world besides okayplayer.com. And yet now some propose publishing a book or starting a site for others to learn from. Sure you could put all the disclaimers up that you want, but I think more measures would need to be taken. Like at least provide users with some means of locating the original source of the information (books), if law won't permit actually posting the information on the site.
Anyways.... somewhere in all this there is a good idea. So keep "building" as you kids like to say.
peace

>The thing with the boards as they are now, is that
>"Activist" is just too vague. You can go in here at any
>given time and who knows what threads you will see.

Oh, but we are talking about the archive :)
The archive has much more to give than the boards at any day.. naturally.

> • And here's a BIG problem for me : How do you go about
>respecting everyone's right to free speech while still
>maintaining some sort of validity of information ? This site
>would be a huge responsibility in that your whole purpose is
>to educate.

You are right. It won't be education per se, the way it should be is to share what okayactivist has to give. If it isn't like that, the content will be misused.

althou it sounds interesting.

this, thou, is nothing but true imo.. and a good idea:
>One thing that would be important is to emphasize action/
>activism rather than coming off as some kind of social club.
>Profiles of activists should include information about what
>they do outside of the board and how that experience benefits
>others on the board and those who read the book. This would
>certainly deflate notions of the death or hip hop activism or
>apathetic attitudes of younger generations or of message boards
>as largely aesthetic. With grassroots activism on the rise,
>this could be a really important project.

it would give an important backbone to the content!

First off, I think it is THE thing to do.



1) who would be the target audience?

2) It should be free- I know that if we are talking about a printed doc that this implies printing costs, but I feel that the people who should be exposed to this don't necessarily have the funds to go to a bookstore- and when you start talking about distribution then you have to go through the rigors of dealing with bookstores, etc. I think that once the information is organized, maybe it could be broken down into smaller components that could be published as a series. Each installment could be put out as a pdf, and we could act as the distribution network.

There was an Elder in DC who passed away in 2000 who had made a 20 page document that was comprised of remedies, spiritual advice, history, etc...he was diagnosed with cancer and he passed this out to friends and asked them to make 10 copies and give them out with the same instructions. I think this could be done in the same manner....

When it comes to the book option, for now we are hoping that a serious publisher will be interested, no? Aiming high.. trying to reach far.

And if not, we'd have to do something like this, yeah... underground. I'm personally feeling that:
>I think that once the information is organized, maybe it could
>be broken down into smaller components that could be published
>as a series. Each installment could be put out as a pdf, and we
>could act as the distribution network.

book vs website

Perhaps the book alternative is more desirable by some (me also) because a book is more about prestige.. when it's a book it is more likely for it to become a cultural revolution, or whatever the subcounscience may be dreaming about.

Is it a good thing or a bad thing to have prestige as a goal?

i'm tryna get PAID

at least youre honest

that is why the 'lo-fi' route seems more appropriate.

That is what i am thinking about.
To keep in down to earth as well.

Im still not feelin' the website idea because it doesn't seem any different than what yahoo.com can provide (unless it's brought from a different perspective).

add to that the fact that a website costs $$$ (how much do yall think ?uest and crew have to spend to keep OKP up and running?)
and that's cash we DONT have.

plus we wouldnt make any money off of it like we could for a book.



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and Quest4Knowledge bringing you fair & balanced moderation since 2003.

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Actually, it would be _way_ different than what yahoo.com can provide.

*Now, to see if everyone has worked through their issues*

gay.com, for example, is an excellent site in many ways because it is like the _premier_ source of internet gay activity -- no matter how much I hate it, I can't deny that.

If you do decide to take a look at gay.com, but sure to look at the boards -- especially Keoth Boykin's boards.

Yahoo is general, gay.com is specific -- although many populations are not served -- it serves a purpose yahoo cannot. By the same token, blackstripe.com is the same way (ignore the barnes and noble thing...). OKP is unique because of all these voices here...

yahoo doesn't have voices, it has links.

No, I mean lo-fi as in pamphlets.

I really like the idea and i'm down for it quest.......however, we have to make sure this is truly a collabo project, where all of us heads are involved....not just on who decides what is archived as what has happened in the past.....what if some of us submitted short pieces.....and then these were posted to all of the okactivists to vote on what should be used?......i don't want to see one person have creative control, you know what i'm saying? although, i do know using the okayplayer logo would definitely help more than hinder....

using the archives is great, but i think this idea can go beyond that......anyways, count me in....i have a couple indy publishing contacts we could think of as well

peace

On the fourth day
God was riding around Harlem in a gypsy cab
when he created the people
and he created these beings in ethnic proportion
but he saw the people lonely & hungry
and from his eminent rectum
he created a companion for these people
and he called this companion
capitalism
who begat racism
who begat exploitation
who begat male chauvinism
who begat machismo
who begat imperialism
who begat colonialism
who begat wall street
who begat foreign wars
and God knew
and God saw
and God felt this was extra good
and God said
VAYAAAAAAA
On the fifth day
the people kneeled
the people prayed
the people begged
and this manifested itself in a petition
a letter to the editor
to know why? WHY? WHY? que pasa babyyyyy?????
and God said,
"My fellow subjects
let me make one thing perfectly clear
by saying this about that:
No . . . . . . . . . . . COMMENT!"
but on the sixth day God spoke to the people
he said . . . "PEOPLE!!!
the ghettos & the slums
& all the other great things I've created
will have dominion over thee"
and then
he commanded the ghettos & slums
and all the other great things he created
to multiply
and they multiplied
On the seventh day God was tired
so he called in sick
collected his overtime pay
a paid vacation included
But before God got on that t.w.a.
for the sunny beaches of Puerto Rico
He noticed his main man Satan
planting the learning trees of consciousness
around his ghetto edens
so God called a news conference
on a state of the heavens address
on a coast to coast national t.v. hookup
and God told the people cool
and God said
Vaya . . .

Miguel Pinero
From The Book of Genesis according to St. Miguelito

this would be the most egomaniacal thing we could ever
do, EVER. I am not saying egomania is wrong, I am just
calling this what it is.
Peace.

>this would be the most egomaniacal thing we could ever
>do, EVER.

Peace. Allah is saying kinda what I was trying to avoid saying. But I feel that there are ways that some artifact can be created that could be a positive force. If not some sort of printed essay collection/ documentary text of the people here (let's call it what it is -- we are not pedagogs), then perhaps a web portal as part of the okp site. Just a sort of index and a collection of links, maybe a news service or something like okayblogs. It would essentially serve the same folks that come here now, so there would most likely be little increase in traffic or server space ($$$).

This is a positive thing that can become action. Thanks for replies to my earlier post, too.

I want to send a shout out to FireBrand for bringing this excellent idea.

I am interested in editing, but also in being a voice in the conversation.

For example, I am not Afrocentric, but look at things from an African-centered perspective. With that division in place, I would be a voice that attempts to speak for those "subgroups" that seem threatened, from jump, to go over the side. I would think that if a book of this nature were going to be of use, we need to make certain _not_ to present ourselves as on unified voice. That is dangerous because most of us are attempting to break universalisms which edit out, typically our voices. We wouldn't want to practice "master's" methods on our own would we?

When I think of a book like this, I think about texts like, "This Bridge Called My Back." In it, essays ranged from academic to downhome. I believe that if, at this stage in the game, we (look at me including myself!) start to think about te commercial rewards, the kind of book that is eventually put together will be geared towards a certain audience instead of being something that is truly humanistically universal -- cuz ain't nothing more universal than B/black people!

However, that doesn't mean to "think small."

In order to keep the collective feel -- which means just so people know that things go slower in a collective than in a democrary and not to get discouraged if things move slower than expected because it is better than rushing things and ending up fake, one note, and uninteresting -- I believe the editors and everyone should work as a group. Maybe come up with a concrete list of what is needed and allow people to come as their talents, skill, and drive direct them. But, I gotta feeling that with OKAs, that won't be a problem!

Um, the edge I think we have is that the voices enclosed here actually are pretty much in a general demographic. Not to be ageist, but I don't believe there are a lot of 40 year olds in here -- and sorry if you are and I didn't know it. My point is this, we are a bunch of educated B/black folks after the Cosby era... we are raw and passionate and informed (mostly *heh*). We haven't really gotten our voice out there as a group, as a collective... I really think we have something unique here.

Also, I believe we should include the racist posts (if good stuff came out of them) and even the racist posters. The reason why is because I am too tired of the feeling out there in every book that we don't deal with racism. I mean, nowadays, you can't really talk about racism and as a result, white folks have gone blind while our experiences with it grow more numerous if not more intelligent. I think providing a blueprint of our efforts to combat this and the ways in which we do it would be helpful to many people as well as being an important piece in Bakhtin's Great Conversation.

I am SO excited!

I agree with the paragraphs above and below "However, that doesn't mean to think small".. i think you are on point there! (The first paragraph and the second last one almost contradicts eachother abit, thats why im not saying i agree with those.)

When it comes to what to use, what posts and topics to include and avoid:
If we are to have some criteria, at least it would be best to use a criteria that has nothing to do with any stance, topic, agenda. I believe. Such a good criteria could for example be whether "respect for the game" has been shown (abit vague, but).
....abit along these lines (from a university's publication, about how criticism from students is to be brought forward): "It is important that the criticism is as objective as it is constructive. One should also not forget to emphasize positive aspects. It is purposeless to criticize if you cannot provide good arguments for your criticism, and also if you cannot bring forward constructive suggestions for imporvements."

(the last part: "it is purposeless to criticize if you cannot bring forward constructive suggestions for improvements" ..in okayplayer language i think that translates to "No use posting criticism if your criticism isn't done out of respect for the discussion and is not constructive for others.")

No doubt it's a great idea, but one question remain unanswered....


....Who's gonna read it????

Don't u know americans don't know how to read?

>No doubt it's a great idea, but one question remain
>unanswered....
>
>
>....Who's gonna read it????

I think we'd have a target audience.

>Don't u know americans don't know how to read?

Is this a joke?


Thanks for responding, guys. I'm gonna unanchor this now.



------

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and Quest4Knowledge bringing you fair & balanced moderation since 2003.

Make sure you know the guidelines before posting: http://okayplayer.com/guidelines

Not happy about your post being locked? Want a thread archived? See a post that shouldn't be up? Feel free to Inbox me at Quest4Knowledge or E-Mail me at KemeticSunrise@aol.com

I am extremely excited about this project and believe that it contains a sense of urgency that cannot be ignored.

As to how this idea materializes itself, I agree with Quest4Knowledge in favoring a book over website for the same reasons (which I won't repeat to avoid sounding redundant) and positioning the body of work as "an artifact of activism" as abstrak stated.

As for the format, I'm feeling the broad idea Solarus had about "threading" the information with some type of written text on a given subject. Maybe even having a contributed essay on a given topic (i.e. Black masculinity articulated in Hollywood "buddy films") with archived Okay Activist postings divided somewhat in the way that A. Vansant's "Acts of Faith" is by a given topic (i.e. Black Arts Movement, Afro-Futurism, Love).