>I appreciate and respect your comments, but Bill's remarks
>revolved primarily around *the family*, not around primary
>or secondary education.
>
>You can put all of the money into elementary and secondary
>schools that you want, but if people don't have the kind of
>family values that place an emphasis on discipline and
>education, it won't do any good.

Then it all he is doing is making the comments, which many people have done in our community, then the question is, "now what?"

I get bill's frustration. Really I do. But if his comments were strictly about the black family and how kids need to be raised, then the people who should be hearing this aren't hearing his message. These folks aren't watching FOX News or go to the conventions that Bill speaks at. What exactly is his goal?

>Bill knows that no matter what he does, he cannot raise
>peoples' kids for them--and the worst of the problems that
>he was addressing lie in the area of child rearing.

Again, who does he intend to hear this? I'm not even completely disagreeing with Bill. My problem is, it just comes off as screaming in the middle of the grand canyon. Jesse Jackson doesn't need to hear that message.

>I don't think that Bill is saying that everyone needs to be
>like him (i.e. highly educated w/multiple graduate-level
>degrees). I just think he's saying that we are not going to
>move forward until people develop more of a sense of respect
>for education and learning *in general*.

But how do you respect education if it's presented right from the get go. Bill doesn't even have to spend his money to do it. If he's going to use his mouth piece, speak on these entertainers and atheletes who aren't putting money back into these schools on a larger scale. There are too many black million and billionares for there not to be some sort of "rebuild a school" plan already. In ten years we could have every hood in america fixed.

>Even in the examples you gave (plumbers, electricians,
>janitorial, construction etc.), some sort of regimented
>training program or vocational schooling is a prerequisite.
>If you don't respect authority enough to listen to your
>elders in the profession, how are you going to get the
>training necessary to do those jobs?

Of course. Look we're not disagreeing here. I know the black family has fallen apart in alot of ways. But at this point, a teen mother is not all of sudden going to start "speaking proper" or teaching family values now because Bill or anyone said so. The key is trying to refocus in other ways. All the money that has been put in HBCU, if it was put into the elementary schools, we would have a totally different outlook on alot of what's going on right now.

>
>Encore-the following comments are not directed at you
>specifically--they are just general thoughts on my part:
>
>
>This debate about Cosby's remarks ties in with the post in
>GD about the children of foreign-born blacks attending
>Harvard and other elite institutions in higher numbers than
>the children of native-born blacks. The children of these
>foreign-born parents are not any less black than we are--so
>why are they so much more succcessful than we are in gaining
>access to these institutions? I think that the reasons are
>cultural--and the difference can be seen in the strong
>emphasis on the value of education that is instilled in
>these children.

Definitely. there is no question about that. But I think at this point, instead of pointing the finger at who's fucking up here, why not say ok, "Well, it looks like the kids aren't reaching us at the black colleges. How do we get there attention earlier?" feel me?

>To be frank, I think that for starters, leaders from the
>native-born African-American community should consult with
>educators from the West Indies, as well as with educators
>and community leaders of the foreign-born blacks inside the
>U.S. They should start a dialogue about trying to institute
>some of the foreign blacks' emphasis on education amongst
>American blacks who are struggling with these issues. I
>understand that this would be a major, major undertaking in
>terms of implementation, but I think it would be a step in
>the right direction.

It's too late for that. Like you said, it's a different culture that motivates black folks out there. They don't have as many distractions as we do out here. Trying to implement their way of doing things would be impossible and a waste of time in my opinion.

>Many of the issues that American black people have
>concerning the value of education stem from the particular
>history of slavery and its aftermath in this country. I
>think that blacks who espouse these borderline-hostile views
>toward education fail to realize that we are virtually the
>*only* people in this country that have these kinds of
>pitched battles over the fundamental value of education, and
>that this has to do with the uniqueness of our historical
>experience.

true

>The success of foreign-born blacks in American educational
>institutions proves that these hang-ups are simply not
>shared by all blacks.

true again

>One good way for us to move forward would be to try to learn
>from the example of these foreign-born blacks. Some of the
>American black leadership may be too proud to humble
>themselves to 'outsiders' in this way, but the fact is that
>we are going to have to get an infusion of new information
>from somewhere, because many of our people are headed
>nowhere under the current paradigm.