>>Since you havent read the whole book, how are you convincing
>>yourself this is not the only doctrine that you can learn
>>about the Most High?
>
>Because I'm just keeping my mind open. I think it's
>closed-minded to assume that the Bible is the only source of
>truth. Have you read the Quran? Studied Hinduism or
>Buddhism? How do you know that Islam or Buddhism wouldn't
>make even more sense to you than the Bible if you've never
>opened your mind to other religions and possibilities?

I do believe Christ to be the "Son of God" and because I believe that I believe what the bible says, 2 Cor.11: 3-4,13-15

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtily, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, who we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirt, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

For such are false apostles, deceiftul workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himselfis transformed into an angel of light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of rightousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

This is why I dont deal with other doctrines or faith. If you think about, what doctrine has laws, statues and commandments more righteous then the ones in the Bible. No other doctrine deals with a Sabbath day. Im not closed minded just strong in my conviction. This is what I beleive to be truth! no other doctrine can dispute with what God has to say.

>According to the word of God (Bible),
>>you must labor, study to shew thyself approved unto God.
>>It's a life long process once you start reading it and
>>praying for understanding little by little God will grant
>>you wisdom to understand what he is talking about.
>
>That sounds somewhat sketchy. The only way to understand GOd
>is to spend your whole life studying Him. Well by then,
>you've invested a lifetime into it - what if you still
>aren't convinced? Or maybe the reason people become
>convinced is because they've put too much time and effort
>into it for them to accept that it could be wrong, so they
>fool themselves into believing... I don't mean to sound
>demeaning or doubt the truth of anyone's devotion - but it
>seems like a religion that requires a lifetime of study just
>to understand it is kind of a trap... I can't put my faith
>and belief in something I don't understand and just blindly
>hope that it eventually make sense someday... (Though like I
>said, I am a Christian, just not one who is closed minded
>about such things - I believe it's possible to live a good
>life and get into "heaven" even if you're not a Christian...

you need to understand people who are about Christ business, are not down about "living their life according to God's standard". It is a life long process, you cant just say for the next 3 months Im going to serve God. You may not be able to put your faith and belief in something you dont understand, (how can you call yourself a Christian?)but once you have an understanding like Christ said, you can move mountians, you dont second guess what you believe, you believe it! peep the subject line again,this is what you must believe in order to call yourself a Christian, and once you do, then you walk in his ways.


>Dont
>>worry about the translation, trust me once you start reading
>>it you will catch on and God will direct your path.
>
>My problem is that the English version of the Bible and the
>Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic versions are ALL slightly different in
>meaning and especially connotation. How can every different
>translation be the flawless and perfect word of God?

get a concordance and find a good teacher! Hungry and thirst after rightousness, and wisdom will feed you!


>For example (and this one is huge!):
>
>the Greek translation for Isaiah's Hebrew "young woman" was
>a word that can also mean either "virgin" or "young woman."
>In other words, Isaiah never prophesied a virgin birth, and
>he wasn't even talking about the Messiah when he prophesied
>tthe birth of a child to King Ahaz of Judah. But to fulfill
>the mistranslated prophesy, the author believed Jesus must
>be born of a virgin. Since neither John, Mark, or Paul in
>his writings discuss the Virgin Birth, some theologians have
>suggested that this aspect of Jesus' birth was a later
>invention, as with the relocation of the birth to Bethlehem,
>to fit the Nativity events in a prophetic scheme. Once
>again, the entire episode of Jesus' birth reminds readers
>that the Bible is a work of faith, not history or biology.
>{quote taken from Don't Know Much About the Bible, by
>Kenneth C. Davis}

this is what theologians beleive! I will deal with what the bible says. What scripture are you referring to? Isaish prophesy of the Messiah is Chap.53.

>And this one's not a mistranslation, but while I've got this
>book out, I want to share this:
>You may know that December 25th is not really Jesus'
>birthday, but here's why it was chosen:
>December 25th corresponds with Winter Solstice, a holiday
>for pagan sun worshippers celebrating the sun god. The week
>preceding the solstice was called the Saturnalia, an
>orgiastic festival that concluded with gift-giving and
>candle-lighting... Hmm, sounds very familiar. Early Roman
>Christians appropriated the date and some of the traditions
>to win converts from paganism, who weren't entirely willing
>to give the holiday and its traditions up. {paraphrased from
>Davis' Don't Know Much About the Bible}

I know all of this I dont keep any of the man made traditions, just the feast of the bible. Why, because none of them are in the bible! Christmas, Easter, birthdays and so on.

>>>I'm willing to go thru what
>>>>you call contradiction and the things that dont make sense.
>>>>There is nothing contradicting about the book, it's like you
>>>>said, " things dont make sense". They will once you get an
>>>>understanding.
>>>
>>>I have a book that details all the contradictions, and gives
>>>citations (and I've checked some of them). There's a lot of
>>>them. I'll pull out some of the more obvious ones when I get
>>>time.
>>
>>Please do because most of what people believe to be
>>contraditions are not, you just have to put things together
>>like a puzzle. Here a little there a little.
>
>I'm not even going to go into the contradictions pointed out
>in Davis' book - they are too numerous. Instead, let me pull
>out another great book - The Heretic's Handbook of
>Quotations, edited by Charles Bufe. Here we go:
>
>I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
>-Genesis 32:30 (Jacob speaking)
>No man hath seen God at any time. -John 1:18
>And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my
>back parts; but my face shall not be seen. -Exodus 33:23
>(God speaking)

the only person anyone saw is Jesus including what Jacob is talking about. We can deal with this more if you would like. I have a lesson on it! this is where you must search the scriptures to put everything in the proper context.


>...thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for
>tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning,
>wound for wound, stripe for stripe. -Exodus 21:23-25
>... resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy
>right cheek, turn to him the other also. -Matthew 5:39
>(this is the classic contradiction between new and old
>testament)

again, not put in the proper context! dont take it literal!

>God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any
>man. -James 1:13
>And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt
>Abraham. -Genesis 22:1
>
>...for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep
>anger forever. -Jeremiah 3:12
>Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn
>forever. -Jeremiah 17:4
>
>Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that
>giveth understanding. -Proverbs 3:13
>For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth
>knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
>
>Think not that I am come to send peace on Earth: I came not
>to send peace, but a sword. -Matthew 10:28
>...all they that take up the sword shall perish with the
>sword. -Matthew 26:52
>
>And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man
>which is in heaven. -John 3:13
>...and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. -2 Kings
>2:11
>
>If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. -John
>5:31 (Jesus speaking)
>I am one who bears witness of myself... -John 8:18 (Jesus
>speaking)
>
>A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's
>children... -Proverbs 13:22
>Sell all that ye have and give alms... -Luke 12:33
>
>...the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves
>shall hear his voice, and come forth... -John 5:28-29
>As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that
>goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. -Job 7:9
>
>There are more, but that's more than enough for now...

these are not contradications, you just have to put everything in it's proper context. I understand why you think they are. How about we go thru each one on a individual bases I would like to show you thru the scriptures how they are not. Can I inbox you?

>>>But He created everything, so He set these situations up,
>>>and allows them to happen. And a good, pious Christian woman
>>>who is attacked in the parking lot of the grocery store did
>>>not "put herself in any situation" that justified what
>>>happened. Living a pious Christian life doesn't protect you
>>>from being robbed/raped/maimed/murdered/etc.
>>>
>>>God's way of life dont create these kinds of
>>>>people.
>>>>>Quick question for you: If someone you "loved" ( in a true
>>>>sense) repeatedly disobeyed you, what would you do?
>>>
>>>Hard to say. I definitely wouldn't hurt them for disobeying
>>>me. I don't expect people I love to obey me (unless it's a
>>>child, which is a totally separate subject). For example, if
>>>I told my wife we don't need a new car and she goes out and
>>>buys one anyway, I'd be pretty angry and frustrated, but I
>>>wouldn't want to hurt her or cause her pain... Give me a
>>>better example, because I can't really figure out what
>>>you're getting at here...
>>
>>What first needs to be understood, is that God did not
>>create evil, we created evil.
>
>I thought God created everything...
>Even so, by giving us free will, he indirectly created
>evil...
>
>God gave us law and the
>>consequences for breaking those laws. Also going back to the
>>beginining, Israel (God's chosen nation was suppose to show
>>the world what is the will of God) entered into a convanent
>>with the Most High, that they would keep his commandments
>>and show the world, they failed they were curse and the rest
>>of the world leaned toward their own understanding because
>>they had no examples. Then God sent his "only begotten". I
>>convanent is a promise, a vow that Israel and God made.
>>
>>So using your same example:
>>
>>if you and your wife made a convanent/vow not to buy a car
>>and that if she did buy one, she would be punished and all
>>of her decendent would be also. she still went out and
>>brought that car anyway. According to the word, you "must"
>>live up to your vow. This is how seriously God takes vows,
>>this is why he said, dont make them if you cant keep them.
>>So she's punished. God does not choose to punish us he is
>>just keeping his word.
>
>That's crazy though. If we made a convenant not to buy a
>car, I still wouldn't punish her. And punishing her(our)
>descendants? That's seriously wrong, because they had
>nothing to do with it. You can't punish someone for what
>their parents did! Sorry son, your dad killed someone, so
>you're both going to jail for 20 years... It sounds like God
>is real fair, kind-hearted and merciful, just the kind I
>want to worship...

when you made your convanent you had conditions, you may not want to punish your wife and it is not the Lord's will to want to punish us. But he set forth conditions (Deut. 28), if you do this then this will happen, if you dont do this , then this will happen! it's a vow. Now the Lord's convanet with Isreal was deeper then what most people think. You may not think it is fair to punish decendents but understand the vow made by Israel, they promise they would be obeident and knew what would happen to them and their decendents if they broke that vow. They agreed to it. It's just like now, if we as parents are not good examples for our childern, if we are not teaching them what is right and what is wrong then how can you be upset when they dont do well. The Lord chose Israel. It's not as cut and dry as you may think. But the more we communicate the more you will understand what I am talking about. God is good his way of life is good. people keep forgetting that becasue they lean toward their own understanding and not reading, "thus saidth the Lord".


>>God's way of life is not evil nor does it create evil
>>people.
>
>Ideally this is true, but in the real world, Christians are
>responsible for plenty of evil. And they do a lot of evil
>shit in God's name. Even priests, who are supposed to be
>holy, molest children, commit adultery, become alcoholics,
>and have any number of other problems.

These people are not Christians! Using you for example (no disrespect) you call yourself a Christians but dont beleive in the Bible or have any understanding of it. The books says, "If you love me keep my commandments" if you love him, you wouldnt be molesting childern, commiting adultery and so forth. Again these are not Christians. This is the most frustrating thing for me you cant serve God and man!

>Read the book for yourself and see how his
>>followers are really suppose to conduct themselves.
>
>I know basically how followers are supposed to act. Most of
>the Christians I know are constantly doing things they
>shouldn't and making mistakes though. That's human nature,
>which God created...

Following after God's righteousness is no easy walk, I will be the first to admit. If you know how they are suppose to act then recognize them for what they are, LIAR'S! you can always knock anyone off with the Bible. Learn the scriptures and reproof them. but if you dont know it or understand it you will never be able to. Study to show thyself approved